Going West: True Crime - The Pinnacle Lake Murders // 314

Episode Date: June 17, 2023

In July of 2006, a 27-year-old woman and her mother set out for a four-mile hike around an idyllic Washington lake. Hours after they started their trek, their bodies were found by fellow hikers, and it was clear that they had been murdered. But how did they meet this tragic fate, and why? These are the stories of Mary Cooper and her daughter, Susanna Stodden, also known as the Pinnacle Lake Murders. BONUS EPISODES Apple Subscriptions: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-west-true-crime/id1448151398 Patreon: patreon.com/goingwestpodcast CASE SOURCES 1. King 5: https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/mary-cooper-susanna-stodden-unsolved-snohomish-county-murder/281-cf04d027-bb9e-4332-8572-f528fdff87b3 2. King 5: https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/david-stodden-passes-3rd-polygraph-test-in-unsolved-murders-of-wife-and-daughter/281-603049836 3. The Olympian: https://www.newspapers.com/image/806023375/?terms=mary%20cooper%20susanna%20stodden&match=1 4. Mary's Find A Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/14935751/mary-cooper 5. Susanna's Find A Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/169360955/susanna-stodden 6. Obituary: https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/seattletimes/name/mary-stodden-obituary?id=29016901 7. The Spokesman-Review: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2007/mar/11/womens-deaths-remain-a-mystery/ 8. University of Washington Magazine: https://magazine.washington.edu/mary-cooper-1950-2006/ 9. Medium: https://medium.com/@jennbaxter_69070/the-bizarre-double-murder-of-mary-cooper-and-susanna-stodden-29cf63206e59 10. Herald Net: https://www.heraldnet.com/news/murder-case-is-cold-but-memory-still-burns/ 11. US News: https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/washington/decatur-elementary-school-241334 12. Herald Net: https://www.heraldnet.com/news/three-years-and-no-answers-in-slaying-of-hikers/ 13. Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/10-years-after-his-wife-daughter-were-killed-on-hike-lack-of-answers-haunts-north-seattle-man/ 14. Washington Trails Association: https://www.wta.org/go-hiking/hikes/pinnacle-lake 15. University of Washington Magazine: https://magazine.washington.edu/feature/murder-fascinates-but-experts-say-its-becoming-rarer/ 16. Herald Net: https://www.heraldnet.com/news/shock-gives-way-to-grief/ 17. Herald Net: https://www.heraldnet.com/news/murder-case-is-cold-but-memory-still-burns/ 18. Washington Trail Association: https://www.wta.org/news/magazine/magazine/1207.pdf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What is going on True Crime fans? I'm your host Teez. And I'm your host Daphne. And you're listening to Going West. Hello everybody! Today's case was recommended by Randy, who is actually on our team. Thank you so much to Randy, and also as of just yesterday, we officially have 90 full length ad-free bonus episodes over on our Patreon and Apple subscriptions. If you guys are looking for more episodes, yesterday we released the case of Jody Jones, who was a teenager in Scotland, who was found murdered in the woods in 2003. So if you would like to hear Jody's story and 89 others, head on over, links are in the

description of this episode as always. And as we always say, if you're looking for photos and visuals of all these cases that we cover, you can go check out our socials. We're on Instagram at Going West Podcast, Twitter at GoingWestPod, and we're also on Facebook. We have an official page, and then we have a discussion group. And I think there's almost like 10k of you guys in there now.

Yeah, almost. Amazing. Very close. So let's get into this case. We're going to Washington today, a very, very bizarre story. All right, guys, this is episode 314 of Going West, so let's get into it. In July of 2006, a 27-year-old woman and her mother set out for a four-mile hike around

an idyllic Washington lake. Hours after they started their trek, their bodies were found by fellow hikers, and it was clear that they had been murdered. But why did they meet this tragic fate and how? These are the stories of Mary Cooper and her daughter Susanna Staudin, also known as the pinnacle lake murders. Mary Cooper was born on April 9th 1950 in Springfield, Pennsylvania, and not much is known about her childhood, but we do know that after high school, she went on to attend the prestigious Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. and that is where she obtained a degree in speech therapy.

At 28 years old, she married the love of her life, David Staudin. Now David was a warm and kind man who adored his wife and recalls a happy, healthy, loving marriage. The two settled in Seattle, Washington, eventually, where David was a contractor who specialized in home renovations, and Mary worked with children with hearing disabilities. David called her brilliant, a voracious reader and listener of NPR, but she never made anyone feel like they were less intelligent than she was. Above all, she's remembered for her kindness, and she was notorious for her loving soul and generous spirit, particularly as a wife and mother.

In the outpouring of love and support that she received after her untimely death, she's remembered for quote, the tremendous positive legacy that she left behind. Her very tight-knit group of mom friends recalled that she made a point of knowing every single neighbor on her block. One of those mom friends said quote, I think she would smile harder, the harder things got. Mary and David had three daughters. Their oldest Susanna was born on July 2nd, 1979, and her sisters, Elisa and Joanne joined later in 1982

and 1985. In 2004, Mary decided to go back to school to obtain her master's degree in library science, turning her love of reading into a new career path. After completing her course of study at the University of Washington, she was hired to be the head librarian at Decatur Alternative Elementary in Seattle, which is ranked as the number three elementary school in all of Washington. Mary and David were just really passionate about the outdoors and spend as much time outside

with the girls as they possibly could. Mary tended to a lush and beautiful garden that their house was famous for around the neighborhood, and she even kept chickens in a coop in their backyard. The Staudin's relished taking advantage of the water and the wildlife that surrounded them on every side in Seattle, and were known to venture out in all weather conditions. In this love of nature was passed on to all three of the Staudin's children, but especially Susanna, who's going to be the other focal point of this story today. In fact, Susanna made wildlife conservation and sustainability her life's mission.

After graduating from Garfield High School, Susanna studied environmental education at Western Washington University, which is about an hour and a half north of Seattle and Bellingham, Washington. She completed her degree in 2001 and then allowed her wanderlust to take her all over the world. She set out on multiple backpacking trips, but usually she just kind of traveled by herself. In 2003, she moved in a pall to volunteer, and she taught children while enjoying everything that the stunning landscape had to offer.

When she returned, she began working for a local non-profit and eventually scored a job with the Autobahn Society, which is an organization that's dedicated to the study and preservation of birds in their habitats. Love it. So deeply committed to the environmental impact efforts, Susanna enrolled in a sustainability class, and it was there that she met her boyfriend Norman. Susanna also began making her own cleaning supplies and basically just tried to cut out everything toxic and artificial from her life. Her father David joked quote,

you better not be using comment to clean your toilet when she came by. In the summer of 2006 Susanna turned 27 and she left her position at the Autobahn Society to take a teaching job. So like her mother she really loved working with kids and she left her position at the Autobahn Society to take a teaching job. So like her mother, she really loved working with kids and she was really excited to be in the classroom again. While waiting for the school year to start, she spent as much time outdoors as she possibly could. She volunteered in her community, she planted trees, she was tracking birds, and she was

also cleaning up around streams. And on top of this, you know, as we mentioned, Susanna was just completely devoted to sustainability. I mean, she wrote her bike to work every day, and she was picking her own fruits from organic farms. And she also spent two weeks hiking Mount Rainier by herself that summer. Yeah, super outdoorsy, amazing, amazing person like she really loved the earth. And definitely and I have actually seen Mount Rainier. It's incredible. So beautiful.

It's so pretty. Yeah, from our old Portland house. We had a nice view of it. So pretty. So Susanna's roommate and friend Katie remembered how kind and patient that she was as a housemate. When Katie's cat fell ill and the other roommates and friends had left Katie to deal with it herself, Susanna told Katie to wake her up any time for help and that she would drive them to the hospital.

Like she was just incredibly considerate and Katie remembered Susanna's amazing laugh and her constant assurance of no worries. She was a presence who could put anyone at ease. On the morning of Tuesday, July 11, 2006, Susanna told Katie that she and her mom were going to go for a hike and asked if Katie wanted to come with. But Katie declined staying back to work on a cover letter and asked Susanna if she would prove freed it when she got home. Susanna told Katie that she and her mother Mary would be headed to Mount Pilchuk,

which is a trail that they had decided upon two days prior when she was over at our parents' house for dinner. Mary told David the very same thing and even checked the trail online that morning to ensure that the conditions were clear, so to everybody on the outside, this is where they were supposed to be headed. The beginning of this trail, which is located in Snahomish County near Verlo, Washington, took at least an hour and a half to drive to from Seattle, but the family had hiked it before, so they were pretty familiar with it. Even so, David warned his beloved wife, Mary, of snowy or icy conditions, as the summit reaches over 5,300 feet.

And remember, this is in the middle of July, but some of those peaks, some of those tall mountains, still have a lot of ice and snow on them. Oh, absolutely. So yeah, they're checking the conditions, they're making sure that everything is good and that they're going to have a safe hike again, thinking that they are going to mount Pilchuk because that's where they said they're going, which is going to make sense in a bit while him highlighting that fact. So, Mary promised that they would be careful.

She said her goodbyes to her husband, David, and headed out of their home in the Green Lake neighborhood of Seattle to pick up Susanna from her apartment. Taking off around 8am, she told David that she would likely be home by 4.30pm, so this was an all day excursion. With that, David headed to work on a nearby house and returned home around 5.30pm. So Mary was supposed to return an hour before he got home, so he was obviously extremely puzzled to find that Mary was still gone when he arrived. But wondered if maybe she had come home and then ventured back out to pick up dinner, or

that the two had taken longer on their day trip than they had anticipated. David, who was just as active as the rest of the family, was training for a cycling trip from Seattle down to Portland, Oregon that summer. A journey of about 175 miles or 281 kilometers. He was in the midst of heavy training and arranged to meet a friend that evening to ride. So he and his friends spent a couple of hours riding through Seattle's Seward Park, returning home around 8.30 pm. So during the time that he was out, he really didn't worry because he assumed that Mary

would certainly be back by the time his ride was done. But when he arrived to find that Mary and her car had still not returned from the hike, he began to grow very worried. So we called both Mary and Suzanne on their cell phones, but both went straight to voicemail. After repeated calls, yielded the same result, and no other friends or family members had heard from them, David called the police to report his wife and his daughter missing. An hour later, waiting for the police to arrive to speak with him,

and having exhausted every other avenue to finding them, David packed up his car and decided to head out after them himself. He packed water, some food, and some supplies, including a flashlight and a pickaxe, and was about to hop into his car to make the trip, which again would take about an hour and a half. But that's when he saw headlights creeping up the street toward him. He initially hoped that they were marries, but quickly spotted the police emblem and knew that he was in for bad news.

When police told David that Mary and Susanna had been killed on their hike, a cause of death was not yet available. This was such a surprising and seemingly random occurrence that they initially posed the idea of an animal attack like before they knew exactly what had happened to them. David was then informed that unbeknownst to him or anyone else, Mary and Susanna had decided to hike pinnacle lake instead, which was a trail that neither of them were familiar with. So sadly, if they had stuck with their original plan of going to Mt. Pilchuk, like I'd mentioned, they would likely still be alive today.

But why they changed their minds is very unclear to us and anybody else. Yeah, it's a mystery. So the pinnacle lake trail is also on Mount Pilchuk, but a different route than they were planning on taking. This was a four mile trek that is steep and moderately difficult, but mostly known for its rough access road, which is dotted with potholes. So same general area, like on the same mountain, but a completely different trail and route than what they had mapped out and what they had been mapping out for days.

And it had taken Mary and Susanna about an hour on that like pothole dotted road just to get to the trailhead. So that's an hour of super rough bumpy road. And this trail is actually currently closed to take measures to finally fix up that path of potholes. But back to the scene. So it didn't take long before the crime scene

and the bodies were examined, and it was clear that the women had not been the victims of an animal attack. They had been murdered. Both Mary and Susanna had been shot in the head with a handgun and undisclosed amount of times. They have still not released this. Their bodies were recovered about two miles or 3.2 kilometers into the trail, and with very few people around and no apparent evidence or sign of a struggle, investigators scrambled to put together a picture of the final moments

of their lives. Both Mary and Susanna were wearing their backpacks when they had been found, and both backpacks still contained a wallet and cell phone. While it appeared that they were missing some of their articles of clothing, it is still not believed that the women were sexually assaulted. After those discoveries, it seemed likely that the motive was purely murder for the sake of murder. This, or they had come upon something that they weren't supposed to.

Yeah, I mean, usually when we see scenes like this, seemingly random acts of violence, there's usually a motive like, but the fact that they didn't take the wallets, we have to rule that out, the fact that they were not sexually assaulted, got to rule that out, but it's like, then what, what other reason? I mean, who would, who would do such a heinous act to somebody just because, just for the shit of it? Well, yeah, they're just, they're on a hike, there's other people around, but not really

very many people on the trail like why them, why then. But let's dive into what we know about their day. Absolutely. So there were no witnesses to the actual crime, but there were other hikers on the trail that day. When Mary and Susanna had pulled into the parking lot and gotten out of Mary's purple Dodge caravan, there was a couple also preparing to take that same trail. The couple had even spoken to Mary and Susanna who were reading announcements on the notice board before they set out on their way, and the man called them exceptionally nice people and said later that he wished that they had joined forces on their hike, and that that

may have deterred the murderer from going after the women. And this was the same couple who actually discovered the bodies on their way down the mountain. So after getting ahead of Mary and Susanna, the couple made it to the end of the trail and then turned around ahead back, and that's when they came across the bodies around 2.30 pm, so three hours before David initially arrived home for the day wondering where they were. This left a 4.5 hour window for the women to be killed between the time they arrived

to the trail and the time they were found. And strangely, the hikers claimed that they never heard gunshots. I mean, if you're on the same trail and you would pass by them, you would assume that it's probably pretty quiet out there in nature. Oh, yeah. You might hear these gunshots going off, but I guess they didn't. That is really weird. Like, it makes you wonder if a silencer was used,

but I've read a lot about silencers about how they're not actually that silent. Do you know about that? I mean, somebody else is like, I know. Yeah, exactly. I feel like they would probably be more silent, but- But it's still a gunshot. Sure. Yeah. So the fact that this was not heard by anybody and the problem is online, it's just like an undisclosed amount of gunshots. Were they shot each one time? Where were they shot? Were they shot in the head? Did they die immediately?

We don't know exactly those answers. so I think that would help as well to To kind of visualize this scene like it was it was it two shots was it six like how weird is it that they did not hear these shots I feel like when you're gonna put in undisclosed amount of times. I know it makes you think it's more that makes you think that it's multiple Right I agree. Yeah, so this I know it makes you think it's more that makes you think that it's multiple right I agree yeah so this couple I'm so sorry go ahead one thing I really want to mention super quick is that also police had originally said oh were they attacked by animals So what did the scene have to look like for their minds to go there before gunshot like this must not have been a very clean scene And we can actually talk about where they were found

So this couple claimed that the women had just been pulled, like, basically right off the trail, and that their murderer had made no effort to conceal the bodies whatsoever. Yeah, so they were not laying on the trail. They were just off it. But if you're walking past them, you're going to see them. They're right there. Right. So initially, given their positioning, the couple thought that they may have been squatting

down, but further inspection, of course course revealed that they had both been killed. Which kind of gives us a hint into what position they were in, if they were on their stomachs, like in kind of a crouched type position, you know, which is kind of weird in itself as well. Well, let's talk about that for a second, because this to me kind of indicates like an execution style murder, because if they had been on their knees and someone had been behind them pointing a gun at the back of their head, it would be likely that if they were shot in the back of the head that they would fall forward, which would kind of replicate, I guess,

what this couple is saying, like a squatting position. Yeah. Maybe that, you know, the top half of their body, their torso is laying forward, but they're basically kind of on their knees. Yeah, like in a crouch, almost. Right. Which is weird,

because that is an odd position to be in. So it kind of just makes you wonder what happened. Were they posed like that? Were they moved at all? Is that where they were killed in that position? You know, there's just, there's so many questions. Yeah, definitely. And I guess Susanna was actually found on the ground

and Mary was slightly propped up against the log. So terrified and assuming that the murderer was still in the vicinity, the husband and wife hikers swiftly and fearfully marched down the trail, clutching the ice axe that they had brought with them as a precautionary measure. When they finally reached the trailhead and were able to call for help, they ran into another hiker who had also come that the husband and wife who came across Mary and Susanna's bodies sped down that trail, just terrified that they were going to come

in contact with a killer, and when they got to the bottom, they met a hiker who had already found their bodies and had already dialed 911. So this really goes to show you how there's people walking this trail, three people stumbling upon their bodies, but where is the killer or the killers and how is nobody finding them? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of mind-boggling to know that there were two murders taken place here and nobody heard anything and nobody had seen anyone.

It's crazy. So, this hike was known for being a secluded escape for locals and the sparse community surrounding the area was absolutely shocked at this news. As police struggled to determine a motive and hunt for anything that would point them towards a suspect, they questioned friends and family and they especially grilled David, because they wanted to know if there was anybody in particular who jumped out to him as possibly being involved.

David told them that he couldn't imagine anyone having a problem with either his wife or his daughter. Again, by all accounts, these were lovely people. They were simply on a hike that day. They weren't doing anything to anybody. And on top of that, seemingly only David and Susanna's roommate Katie knew that they were headed out on their hike at all. And remember, they had changed their plans at the last minute, so it doesn't seem that anybody could have coordinated an attack against these women.

Police also investigated the possibility that they may have gone out there to engage in a murder suicide, but based on the direction of the shots and the bullets, they were able to rule this out. And also, there was nothing indicating that they would be interested in doing such a thing anyway. I mean, that's just kind of a silly conclusion. I mean, they're out on a beautiful hike, mother and daughter, like why? Yeah, I mean, I get it. They had to rule it out and they did and they moved on very quickly. But thus, suspicions fell on David himself. So

while he seemingly had an airtight alibi, he would have been at work over an hour away, David remembers that as soon as police broke the news to him, he began to be treated as a suspect. While sifting through his emotions and devastation about the senseless act against his wife and daughter, police were rifling through the bag that he had packed to take with him on his reconnaissance mission, as well as through his car, even going so far as to check his odometer to verify that the level of gas and activity that day aligned with what David had told them,

which is fine. I think a lot of people understand that when their wife, their spouse, their child, someone in their family has been murdered, that we need to rule you out first. And he is absolutely letting them do that. Yeah, it's kind of one of those age old, you know, look at the husband, like take a look at the husband first.

Yeah, and they should. I mean, the fact that they checked his odometer, that's awesome, you should do that. Just make sure it's not him and then move on. But, you know, here we go. Sure, so the pinnacle lake trail was closed for just two days as they searched for evidence. The FBI, who joined the investigation because the crime occurred on national forest property,

later claimed that it should have been shut down for a longer period of time, and I completely agree, like two days is not really enough time to fully investigate this area. The forested area surrounding the bodies was searched meticulously, I guess, but turned up nothing, at least not that the police were willing to announce. Not that they're willing to announce much else. Yeah, so Mary's Dodge Caravan was then searched while it was parked at the trailhead, but this unfortunately offered them nothing. Still, on July 27, 2006, investigators announced that they had a person of interest, but refused to announce who this person was at that time.

The public would soon come to find though that it was David Staten, Mary's husband and Susanna's father. In an attempt to clear his name and focus on catching the person who actually killed his wife and daughter, David consented to a polygraph examination. And somehow the results were inconclusive. So, David took a second test. And the results of that test have never been released, but David was still considered a person of interest.

And police continued to believe that he was behind it all. But as infuriating as that was, David was focused on getting answers for his wife and daughter and for doing justice to their legacies. He remained calm despite the public questioning of his character, saying, quote, I can't bring back Mary and Susanna, but I can bring back their memories

and the positive things that they did. David focused on his other daughters, Alisa and Joanna and the investigation because obviously at this point it's getting really out of hand. His handling of the murders was scrutinized by many, including the police, for his lack of public outpouring of emotion in the case. But many argue that this was just who David was. One article printed a few months after Mary and Susanna's deaths read, quote, when emotion rises, he pauses in mid-sentence and clenches his jaw and tell the moment passes,

then resumes in the easy cordial way that friends describe as, quote, just David. Contrary to public opinion in the days following the murders, David claimed, quote, he was hugging people and crying a lot. He also maintained his face in the kindness and helpfulness of strangers, saying that he still had quote a lot of faith in other people. And David continued to extend this kindness to those he met during the course of the investigation, even gifting reporters who interviewed him at his house with eggs from Mary's chicken coop. Three days after the murders, David, Alisa, and Joanne took to the trails once again, hiking

the Bordman Lake, which is near the pinnacle Lake Trail. And once again, David was criticized for this, but Alisa countered saying, quote, it felt really important to go where we were afraid to go. And David agreed with quote, I felt like if we became victims, then this person would take even more away from us. Why would I wanna do that? The three saw this hike as a tribute

to their tragically slain family members, and they did this together, you know, and then Mary school put up a memorial for her that red quote, Mary in the library, the nicest person in the universe, you will always be in our hearts. The Dean of Mary's Master's program at the University of Washington wrote, quote, we are greatly saddened by the loss of Mary. She touched the lives of everyone who knew her. We will always remember and cherish Mary's upbeat personality, happy smile, and her steadfast dedication to school libraries and children's literacy. And a coworker echoed, saying, quote, we can't believe it at this

point. It's amazing that something like this could happen to such a good person. And because she was so widely loved over 1,500 people attended Mary's Memorial Service. One comment on a Facebook post about the murders came from a former student of Mary's who claimed that every single coworker and former student showed up at her Memorial Service, which is a true tribute to the legacy that she left behind.

In lieu of flowers, David, Alisa, and Joanne asked for donations to the Seattle Public Library Foundation. David maintained, quote, I'm just feeling my way through this. I just have a lot of family friends supporting me. Though David continued to be considered a person of interest, he also offered continuous support in the investigation. He allowed detectives to access his phone records,

his taxes, his insurance information, you know, just basically anything that could help rule out his involvement and also allow police to focus on finding who had really done this. But the investigation focused so heavily on David that he believes it ultimately led them to fumbling the case. With answers coming at a painfully slow pace, David let his own grassroots search, posting

flyers, mailing out postcards to local residents, and combing the trail for anything out of the ordinary. It seemed basically just unbelievable that this trail, with only one way in and one way out, could have concealed a murderer. Yeah, especially because we know the other couple had gone on ahead, and then they turned around to eventually find Mary and Susanna murdered. So if this couple wasn't behind it themselves, which we don't know their names, I'm assuming they were questioned by police

Then was the killer or killers hiding somewhere or did they come in after Mary and Susanna and then somehow leave unseen? It's just so bizarre to me that nobody Saw anybody suspicious or like the fact that multiple people had stumbled upon their bodies, but nobody saw anybody that could have done it. So what, who did it, and where did they go? Yeah, I mean, it would be great to have a visual of this area in general, and the trail, and to know if there's any other spots

that a perpetrator could have come in through, or if they had to specifically take that trail, you know, to get to where Marion, Susanna were. Well, what we do know, according to a friend of David, who has walked that trail like dozens of times since the murders, he said, quote, it's likely the suspect just ran down the trail, but for anyone with a little experience

in Bushwacking off trail, there are all kinds of options to get in and out of there. So that definitely makes a little bit more sense. Yeah, but you would have to be familiar. Like generally, there is one way and one way out, but if you know the trail and you know, you can bushwhack, like, then you can kind of get off a different way, but only if you're familiar, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. Is that what the person did? It's just so unclear. So David scanned the forest floor and visited area campgrounds himself, speaking to people and asking questions. He ran ads in the local newspaper and around 300 tips poured in, but none that led him or investigators to answers. An FBI profiler was even brought in to assess the murders, but the killing seemed so random

and so devoid of evidence that it could have been committed by virtually anybody. It seemed highly unlikely that it could have been anyone that they knew because they changed their plans at the last minute like we've said, so how would anybody have known where they did end up going yeah this appears to be just a random act of violence which is why i mean i don't personally believe that david did it and of course i do understand why they investigate of hit or investigated him they should have done that they did do that

i think it feels kind of obvious from from go that it wasn't him yeah and that's what he's saying. He's like, listen, I get that you need to do what you need to do, but you're wasting time here because the real, yeah, the real killer is still out there. Yeah. And I think, I think maybe from the beginning, they just thought that it was David and maybe that's why they only searched the area for two days, et cetera. So that feels like a really big and unfortunate mistake.

But anyway, so the route that they took to get to the trail head would have involved nearly two hours of driving, like I said. And this included that treacherous pot-holyden access road, and then the 45-minute hike that they made to the area where they were killed. So that, again, just made it very doubtful that anyone had followed them. So then what the hell happened?

Well multiple tips came in about a man named Aaron who apparently had information about the murders, but not enough context was given with the tips and investigators were basically unable to do anything about this. We actually discussed Mary and Susanna in another episode, which was episode 216 about the Bumblebee Road murders, because their cases were so similar. And it's so crazy because I completely forgot about that until we looked into it. And I had just taken this case from our girl Randy,

and I completely forgot that we had talked about this in that episode. So why don't you recap us on the the bumblebee road murders? Yeah, so essentially that was the murders of a young couple who was Alisa, Gariri, and Brandon Rumbaw, who were basically killed in the same fashion. So these two were camping for the night in Arizona, and were discovered the next day, shot to death. And just like Mary and Susanna's murders, these seemed incredibly random.

Yeah, and actually one suspect in these still unsolved murders is the infamous Israel Keys, who we've discussed multiple times on the show, and I'm sure a lot of you guys have heard about this guy. But if you haven't, Israel Keys was a prolific serial killer who was responsible for 11 or more deaths and just as many assaults of women. He was born into a large Mormon family in Utah, but they relocated to Washington when he was young. But his parents' beliefs began to shift away from the traditional Mormonism and into radicalism

and extreme white supremacy. He committed crimes in at least five different states, but investigators believe that he has many more victims that he is simply not accounted for. After being apprehended in 2012, Israel took his own life in his jail cell before he could be brought to trial, so we may never know the extent of his crimes or his victims. And while he did have ties in Washington and was also an act of serial killer at the time of Mary and Susanna's murders, the FBI has discredited suspicions

that he could have been involved in this. Right, so we wanted to say that. I feel like there's so many cases that we have covered where we'll get comments of people being like, oh, maybe it was Israel keys. Like he's that person where so many people believe that he is tied to so many cases, even cases that are

not well known to the public like there's a lot of cases that people kind of famously tie him to that are not confirmed but then there are other ones where people automatically will just be like oh well it was in the area at the time so it might have been isro keys so we just wanted to mention that for anybody who would have brought that up that the FBI does not believe that it was him. Yeah, and I think it's just because he had taken his own life and that, you know, there were so many questions left unanswered. Yeah.

That people kind of point in that direction. They're like, well, I don't know. It could have been him, but it's like, I don't know. If the FBI doesn't believe it, then... And because he had killed in multiple states, and, you know, he moved around a lot. He had a lot of victims. So I definitely get why people say it. But yeah, it doesn't seem like he is behind this case, which again makes you wonder who the hell is. So another persistent theory is that Mary and Susanna stumbled upon an illegal drug operation.

And this kind of this is going into when I mentioned earlier, which was, did they stumble upon something they were not supposed to. So one article about this particular region of Washington Hiking Trail says that, the forest's hide, quote, dumped stolen cars remains of meth labs wild parties. And a park ranger also attested, quote, I made four separate DUI arrests in one evening this summer. It's just crazy. It keeps you very busy. Locals acknowledge this reality as well, confirming that weed is grown illegally and meth is made in that area too.

But Mary and Susanne never strayed from the trail. So it would have been really odd for them to have stumbled upon criminal activity by accident right in the flow of normal hiking traffic, especially when there were other people on the trail as well. So I could understand why it would seem like this happened because we're trying to speculate and look for any kind of answer, but yeah, why would somebody be doing something illicit just out there in the open right on the trail?

Yeah, hey, let's go for a hike today and let me sell you some meth on this trail. That just seems so implausible. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I don't know how much of that criminal activity actually takes place on the trail and not just in the area in general, but again, I don't know. So David acknowledges that it may have simply been like an air-ent bullet or a freak accident, which to me just seems hard to believe

since there were two people who were killed by said bullets. It doesn't, it would make sense if it was only one person who was accidentally shot. Maybe there's a hunter out there, sees something and pulls the trigger and oops that you know tragic accident But two people were killed and shot what we're assuming multiple times right exactly Yeah, I mean again We don't know it just says an undisclosed amount. It could be one each could be more than one each

We really just don't know so to me either way it would seem incredibly Incredibly unlucky for them to have both accidentally died via strai bullets. But during one solo search effort alone, David recovered dozens of bullet casings of various different sizes, and he also discovered that a few of the posters he had hung in the area, you know, sporting pictures of his wife and daughter, had been shot through as if there were maybe use for target practice. So that could kind of give you a little look into the gun use in this area. So it's definitely possible. It just feels like it

would be incredibly unlucky. So as the case continue to kind of slow down, David remembered quote, When I talked to the detectives and heard that they might not find anybody, I got angry. I want us to catch the person who did this. The lead cold case detective has since retired and there are now two Snohomish County cold case detectives working on about 65 unsolved cases dating back as far as 1962. So they have their work cut out for them. Yeah, they have a lot of cases on their place. So we can only hope that they in some way prioritize this one

or at least give it the time that it deserves. Absolutely. So in 2018, so 12 years after Mary and Susanna's deaths, David took a third and final polygraph test and he passed. And I kind of say like we were we covered Amy Bechtel a couple weeks ago or was that last week? Yeah. And in that, we're talking about her husband possibly being involved in an outdoor murder as well, right?

Or potential murder. And he refused to take a polygraph test. He was very much on the defense, didn't want to help, which doesn't automatically make him guilty. But then we're looking at David here, and he's like, I'm taking three polygraph tests. I'm going out there myself and looking. I'm doing this, this, this, and this.

So he's really trying to prove his innocence here. Yeah, I think so. But also, as we've mentioned before, these polygraph tests are inaccurate. And so I can understand why a person would not want to take them. Well, but what's so frustrating is after he passed the third and final polygraph test,

he was not considered a suspect anymore. And he's like, wow, it took 12 years for that to happen. Great. Yeah, exactly. So now 17 years later, he still holds out hope that this murderer will be caught. And he said, quote, it's always in the forefront of my mind. I have to keep believing that they're going to solve it at some point. In his opinion, Snowhomish County

investigators wasted precious time investigating him as the only suspect, which I completely agree. He even entitled his advertisement in the paper, quote, a failure in Snowhomish County, explaining, quote, a failure in Snohomish County, explaining, quote, the case is not solved. It's that simple. That's a failure. I just need them to do their jobs. I'm sure that they would say that this is the way that they do things, but I think that they can up their game a little bit.

A wooden plaque now hangs on a tree near where Mary and Susanna were killed, and that reads, quote, in memory of Mary Cooper and Susanna Staden, Rest in Peace 7-11-06. Their family spread their ashes between Mount Kilimanjaro and Tanzania, Nepal, the Colorado River, the Grand Canyon, and the family's garden in Seattle. This Nahomish County Sheriff's Office has been quiet on the few details that they do

have, like they've never even announced what kind of weapon, nor what kind of bullets were used in the murders, or how many shots were fired, or whether the shots were made at close or long range, or what angle the shots were taken from, so we can only hope that they push the investigation further into the public eye, so tips can flood in and possibly help the case get solved. That said, if you have any information on the murders of Mary Cooper and Susanna Stodden, please call the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office at 425-388-8-3-8-4-5. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West. Yeah, thanks guys. Thanks for listening to this episode.

Whoa, that was different. Yeah, a little bit. I thought I'd switch it up here, guys. It's a little bit of a sore. So crazy wild man over here. Anyway, we'll have an all new case for you guys to dive into on Tuesday. Yes, we will. Thank you guys so much.

This is just such a weird, weird case. I mean, I know it's a difficult one to speculate on because they're not releasing a ton of information, so it feels really difficult to make up a conclusion on our own, but I really hope they work on this one because it is, this is a stumper, you know what I mean? It absolutely is. This is frustrating, this story.

It's just shitty because there's not really any suspects in this case other than the waters. There's not. Police were pushing for, which was David. Which he has been rolled out, so it was none now. So there's basically none, and I just hope that police will release some of that information. I mean, who knows?

Because that will help also, like I understand why they want to keep some of it at bay or some of it under wraps because they want to use it to their advantage if they do get the right person, but it's also like, hey, maybe not me, but maybe I know somebody or my husband goes out there and he uses that kind of gun and you know it's like releasing that kind of information can help people

realize that it could be someone they know. Yeah, I mean I totally get that you want to protect the investigation, but come on, it's been nearly two decades and zero answers. Yeah, and the families are the family is still out there waiting so thank you guys so much don't forget to share this episode and let us know what you think on our socials make sure to comment and we'd love to talk to you guys about this one and we'll see you next week. Alright guys so for everybody out there in the world don't be a stranger. Music Thank you.

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