Good News York by Growth Mode Content - GNY EP.103 | Feat. Patrick Griffin

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Navigating Negotiations and the Erie Canal: A Conversation with Patrick Griffin In this episode of Good News York, host Mike Brindisi interviews Patrick Griffin, founder of Morrigan Strategic Advisors and partner at Table Force. Griffin shares insights into his journey from Wall Street to establishing two successful businesses in Syracuse, NY. The discussion covers Griffin's background in finance, his passion for negotiation, his involvement with the Erie Canal Museum, and the mission of his strategic advisory firm. Griffin also offers valuable tips on negotiation and highlights the historical significance of the Erie Canal. The episode is sponsored by Ads on the Go and includes details on upcoming events and resources for entrepreneurs. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:27 Meet the Special Guest: Patrick Griffin 01:06 Patrick's Background and Career Journey 01:30 Starting a Business and Teaching Negotiation 03:45 Involvement with the Erie Canal Museum 05:35 The Art and Importance of Negotiation 13:01 Negotiation in Practice: Real-Life Examples 16:03 Unlocking Negotiation Skills 19:33 Misconceptions About Negotiation 19:36 Collaborative Problem Solving in Negotiation 20:47 Value Creation in Negotiation 21:29 Tips for Improving Negotiation Skills 22:51 Building Strategic Partnerships 23:31 Win-Win Outcomes in B2B Negotiation 24:57 Introduction to the Erie Canal Museum 25:46 The Historical Significance of the Erie Canal 28:17 Mission and Activities of the Erie Canal Museum 32:05 Morgan Strategic Advisors: A Fractional CFO Practice 36:55 The Role of Inspire in Business Growth 38:36 Final Thoughts and Upstate New York Perceptions

Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections for what teens see and who can contact them. Plus, time management tools. And Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. It's a gentle cruising. You start to see the village, almost like a painting. Join me, travel expert Darley, Newman and Uniworld Boutique River Cruises L' Week Bali to learn about river cruising in France. As we have been sailing there for decades, we have been able to create deep connection

with the local communities. Local connections make exploring France easy. Tune into the Travels with Darley podcast on IHeart and wherever you listen to podcasts to hear about river cruising and Unirold's 50th anniversary summer specials. Welcome to Good News. You're sponsored by Ads on the Go. Get Ads on the Go.com. Shout out to Zach. with you. Follow me on all socials at Mike B TV. I'm flying solo. Matt's out looking for Sasquatch. He believes in that stuff. That's fine.

I don't fault him for it. I hope he finds him. But I'm not alone. I'm here with a very special guest. The founder of Merrigan Strategic Advisors and partner at Table Force, Mr. Patrick Griffin. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate having you. I wish I had enough people in here to give you a big, you know, big welcoming. I always hear it anyway. I'm very excited to have you on the show. We have so much to talk about. You are a man of many talents and you just have such a great story. We're going to

talk about obviously, did I say that again, Morgan, Merrigan? Morgan. Oh, I think I said Merrigan. It's Morrigan. We'll talk about Morgan Strategic Advisors. We're going to talk about Table Force and, of course, the Erie Canal Museum, which is really exciting. But let's find out a little bit about you. Give us your background and how things all kind of started for you. Sure. Well, thank you, Mike. You're very welcome. So I came up, I grew up downstate and spent most of my career in finance and moved up here to the Syracuse area nine years ago for family reasons. My wife is from Weedsport. We've got kids and live out in Fayetteville.

Great. So I moved up here. I had spent about 10 years on Wall Street and then moved into banking in this area and then had the opportunity to start my own shop. And so I've been, I started my own business in the beginning of 2024. And now I find myself with two businesses, which is a real treat. And how I got there has been wild. You know, they always say it's all in the journey. And that's been true for me.

I could not agree more. I've spent my entire life trying to teach myself about appreciating the journey and not worrying so much about the destination. And it really is something that it's like a mantra that I always tell myself. So you move upstate, you worked on Wall Street, you worked in the banking industry. What happens first? Because you're involved in so many, you know, companies and different projects. Sure.

So I did a few things. So when I came up here, two things happened kind of at the same time. Now, I was able to join a bank, and I didn't come from a banking background despite having a finance background. There are nuances there. Gotcha. In banking best practices. And so I was able to join up a training program with one of the local banks,

and that really helped me get ready to be a banker. But when I launched, I found that while I was expecting to negotiate quite a bit as a banker, and that having been a big part of my job down in New York, I wasn't negotiating as much, and I really missed it. And when I was negotiating, it was with people who were just less trained, a little bit less experienced, nothing against them. It was just less a part of their professional life than it was mine. And so I decided to put together some training curriculum around negotiating.

and decided to start teaching it. And so I called up, I think the first thing I did after teaching it internally at the bank a little bit, is I called up the Tech Garden, now Inspire, a local incubator, and I said, hey, give me a room, and I'll teach people how to negotiate. And they said yes somehow, which was wonderful. And so I started trying to flex that muscle in a different way instead of actively negotiating deals. I just wanted to help develop people in their negotiation skills and still be able to engage. in such a rich subject.

And so while that was also happening, you mentioned the Erie Canal Museum. I wanted to get tied into the local community because, again, I'm not from here. And so I had an opportunity to join the Erie Canal Museum nine years ago, almost nine years ago, and wanted to dig my teeth in, really, and become part of the community an important way.

And it just so happens that I did it at a nice time. I did it a fun time for growth for the museum, but also, as many people know, we are at the end right now of what's referred to as the bicentennial period for the Erie Canal. So the Erie Canal was constructed over a period of seven years, and it was finished 200 years ago this year. Oh, wow. And so my tenure as a trustee there, and I was board president for a little while, I was treasurer for a long time, and I've been an executive trustee for most of the time, overlaps perfectly with that bicentennial period. And so it's just a, through sheer coincidence, a really exciting time to be involved. And we've also, we have an amazing executive director and have a lot of energy around trying

to tell the stories about the Erie Canal Museum, or excuse me, the Erie Canal a little bit differently, trying to tell some stories that haven't been told about the construction and the impact on the community, technologies use, things like that. And so we're, we are launching a new angle on that, that we're just gearing up to find the best way to tell it right now. That's awesome. And, you know, I really respect that you wanted to get involved with the community. I think that's something that people overlook when you move to a new area.

Getting involved with the community is not only rewarding for yourself, and it opens up networking and new opportunities. But it's just, it's also a nice gesture to want to be a part of the community. And I really love that. So I have so many ways I want to go because I'm so interested in all of this. But let's start with the negotiation, Table Force. Tableforce is a global company. You said there's only three employees there? Yes, so three, there are two owners and then me.

I'm a partner. Partner. I will become an owner. I'm working my way into it right now. So what fascinates me about this is you specialize in negotiation, which is so important. And it's funny because as I was researching you when I knew you were coming on, I'm realizing this is kind of a one-of-one thing. There's not many negotiation training. there's not a lot of negotiation training.

There's certainly not companies that offer the training. So it's kind of a two-part question. How did you know that you were good at negotiation and that it's something that you were strong enough to teach at? And how do you kind of turn that into a business? Great question, Mike. So, and I'll say that I didn't know it was good enough to teach it. But in terms of how I knew I was good enough at it as a subject itself,

So I was, my whole family are attorneys downstate. Oh, there you go. At the dinner table, the art of rhetoric, the argumentation. If you don't have it locked down, you know, nobody's going to pass you the piece. That's right. But then growing up, I grew up about 60 miles east of New York City. And my friends and I, we would get on the train and go into New York and they'd all want to go shopping at the shops. And I would go to the street vendors.

When I'd have, you know, some money in my left pocket, I'd have a very specific amount of money. money in my right pocket, and I would just go and I would negotiate for knock off Oakley sunglasses or whatever happened to be there. And it wasn't really about the sunglasses. It was about it was about learning the craft about, you know, I was 14, 15 years old, just trying to get my head around deal making in this way, because it was really different than, you know, retail experience that I was accustomed to. So then when I moved into the city and I was really fortunate to launch my professional career on Wall Street, I, I, the, you know, I, the the company was growing in such a way that I was able to grab some parts of the job that were particularly interesting to me.

So I was able to, there was a bit of an all-a-card element to what I was able to pick up. So I took over pricing strategy for my vertical because I was in really specialized space. And then negotiation was just automatically a large part of the job. We were selling to global banks and global financial institutions. And so I was good at it. I needed to become better at it. And thankfully, I was aware of that. I made some really silly mistakes early in my career, lost some face.

And then what happened was, as I was getting better at it, and I knew I needed to, they brought in some trainers, some outside corporate trainers for us. And that was a two-day program, and it was a light bulb moment for me. One that, wow, this is a formal discipline. I didn't know it was a formal discipline that one could really immerse themselves in in that way. I thought it was just something people had to be good at. And so that kind of sort of depth of opportunity of learning was really enchanting to me. And that introduced me to the whole world of academic writings about negotiations.

So I just started reading and I just started grabbing it. And so, and I spent a few more years in the city and moved up here. As I said, I decided to start teaching it, flex it that way. No background in teaching at all. So I put together curriculum based on that training a little bit, but based on books I'd read, based on my practical experience. Sure. I was probably terrible when I started because, again, it's one thing to be good at the subject. It's another thing to be good at teaching.

But I'm an iterative person by nature. I try to experiment. I try to always improve. And so I just kept at it. And I'm very proud to say that I got to the point where I know I was good at teaching negotiation. And then I had this opportunity to join table force. I wound up meeting the minority partner and then the founder and just really pitched them on myself. You negotiated.

Well, we talk about really asking for what you want. We call it raising the bar, right? So trying. Get out there and try. That's the first step for any negotiation. It's just people need to try to get what they want. And thankfully, I had that boldness in that moment. and went for it.

And it is honestly the greatest joy in my professional career that I get to talk about negotiation for a living. This is so cool. You're such a unique. It's a gentle cruising. You start to see the village, almost like a painting. Join me, travel expert Darley Newman, and Univorl Boutique River Cruises L'ouique Bali

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Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body, body craves. Go to kachava.com and use code fitness. New customers get 15% off their first order. That's K-A-H-A-V-A-D-com, code fitness. And this is such a unique niche that you found. And it's funny because here I was sitting here researching you going, you can like specialize in negotiation? And that's how you kind of found it. You were like, oh, wait, I can specialize in negotiation. I just thought I was good at it. do you find so you know we hear the word negotiation but I'm sure people interpret it in their own way do you find that there's is there a difference between negotiation and and a sales pitch is it kind of

intertwined and yeah I guess I guess that's the question what is it is it a little bit of sales is it its own thing is a little bit of both it's a great question so there's a Venn diagram involved certainly so to be good at sales to be really good at sales. You have to be a good in negotiation. And part of the reason for that is just recognizing that there are more variables than just cost you can play with. Sure. And knowing kind of what the way I think about it visually is kind of just what levers to pull that are going to make something attractive. So sales is a major component of it. And I should, as you said, when people hear the term negotiation, they think of a lot of different things. So let me clarify

my niche. Sure. So what I specialize in is B2B negotiation. Business to business. So, you Yeah, business to business. So there are hostage negotiators out there. One particularly famous one likes to talk about how he thinks it applies to B2B negotiation. I pick fights with him on social media sometimes because he's wrong. Love it. Love it. And so I specialize in B2B negotiation. Sales is a component of that.

Procurement is a very significant component of that. When you have people on the other side who are trying to buy and trying to, you know, that sort of logistical supply chain component. of operations, having people who can negotiate well is really critical. And then even just on towards other professionals, and we work with a lot of project managers. There's a company I'll be teaching next month in Texas that they do a lot of large-scale infrastructure construction. And so they'll get, you know, their project managers will, they're managing their client

relationships or whoever, you know, whatever governmental entity wants them to build something. they're also managing subcontractor relationships. There are change orders that come through. And so there are all these, you know, they have their plan, right? Mike Tyson famously said everybody has a plan until they get punched them out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This company is smart enough that they know that they need to have that plan for when they get punched in the mouth. And so their team needs to be prepared to react to things in the field.

And they can't always go back to the well and say, how do we handle this? So they invest in their people. This is just one particular example. We work across industries, but they invest in their people so that, their teams can be more responsive and faster and just more well informed about how to navigate those challenges. That's incredible because, you know, again, and I'm just giving you from the point of view of the regular Joe like me, when I hear the word negotiation, I also, I always assume it's about money. But when I hear you speaking, I'm learning it's not just about money. Am I correct?

Absolutely. It applies across the board. Can you give me some examples of? Well, let's think for like really extreme examples. Sure. I love extreme. Let's do it. I have a big hole in my backyard that I'm fixing. This is real. This is a true thing. I love it. I have a big hole, and I had to go over to local lawn and garden, local company this weekend, and I needed to order five yards of stone.

Okay. So about 10,000 pounds of stone. And so I go in there, I look at their price. The price is good, but what if they all of a sudden said, yep, that's the price for us to deliver to you in three months? I need it, I need it now, right? So that's a contrived example, right? But when we, it's illustrative because what we want to realize is that, okay, so price is one thing, timing's another thing, in terms of delivery. When I was, when I was in New York, price was one of the smaller things I was probably negotiating most of the time. My job is also to work closely with our legal counsel to get legal terms across, you know, across the finish line and get stuff done.

to look not just at price, but at terms and conditions. And at table force, what we say is that it's not the price, it's the package. So, because really, realistically, there's a wide range of prices that a person can get comfortable with depending on what you tweak in the package. And so if the price isn't working for you, you look for other outside areas of value where, right, let me find something else I can add to this deal that's going to make that price worthwhile to me. Or maybe I want them to come down on the price a little bit. And so I'm going seed this little term that I care about. That's fantastic. And so just thinking about it as really recognizing all the variables

you can play with. And one of the most fun things in our training program is that, so our bread and butter, about 80% of what we do is a two-day program. It's in person. We don't use PowerPoint. It's interactive. There's typically two to three dozen people in a room at a time. And so it's a combination of us speaking, interacting, and then breakouts where they practice what we've taught them. And at the beginning of day one, a couple hours into it after they listen to me talk for a little bit, I give them their first little test, and it's, you know, one, two variables involved. By the end of the second day, we're sending them out. They have an hour to prepare, an hour to negotiate. They are negotiating dozens of terms and conditions, dozens of variables,

like 50 different variables. And so, and we get them to the point where day one, morning of, they might not be terribly comfortable with that. And at the end of day two, people are, they are on time that get it done in that hour with that hour of prep. And so a lot of it is just, one of the fun things that I find is that,

so negotiation is ancient as a practice. It's so integral to the human experience. And so I think a lot of what we do is just unlocking skill that people already have. Yeah. And finding a way to get them, get them to it. So I had a guy I was teaching last year that he was afraid of negotiation.

He didn't like to negotiate. He was worried about how people looked at him when he did it. He thought they would think less of him. But then I heard him negotiating one of the more complex deals. And his rhetorical skill, his ability from a debate perspective, to get the other, to get his counterparty on his side. And I don't say opponent. I say counterparty.

To get his counterparty on the side was so nuanced, so skillful. And so I asked him, I said, your rhetoric is on point. You're so good at this. What's missing with, you know, for you to be good at negotiation? And he's like, I just needed to get my head around it. There was a mindset shift for him. He had so much of the skill already, but he needed to just tweak his thinking a little bit so that he could fully engage with it in a way, you know, to his benefit. Two weeks prior to my training, he had bought a car at a dealership for asking price. And leaving on the second day, he was chomping at the bit to get into his next negotiation. It's so excited. So it's, and that's part of it as well. And you and I talked about this earlier this morning is just my core ethos around this is just that, that everybody can get better at negotiation. And I really think everybody, every personality type can be good at negotiation. It's just a matter of finding your way to it. I love that answer. And, you know, as you're talking, I'm realizing something I'm learning from you without you even trying to teach me is that it sounds like with negotiation, it, it, it's, it. It's sometimes a lot about thinking outside of the box. Like, you know, as you were speaking, I'm thinking, have I ever done this? And the closest example I can think of is when we bought one of our houses. And we negotiated on price.

And that kind of came to a stop. And then it became, okay, we'll give you that price. But can you paint these walls? Can you, you know, and I remember thinking, I remember saying to the real estate agent, oh we can we can ask for that kind of stuff and she's like oh absolutely and that kind of opened my mind to like oh i thought it was like we just talk about price and that's it and so am i right in that that's a part of the negotiation perfect example and and that's what we look for we look for things that are that are of kind of disparate value something that that is um you know low value to them but high

value to me and and and not always right painting a wall as an example of like right that just it makes a big difference for you to have that wall painted by the time you move in. 100%. So that's more valuable to them, excuse me, it's more valuable to you than it would be to them to go through the effort. Sure. And so that's an excellent example. And looking outside of just those kind of strict paradigms of, strict parameters of negotiation

outside of price and getting creative, that's what turns a good deal into a great deal. That's fantastic. And it's so much fun when it works. And I'm not going to put you on the spot. It's not like this is a six. 60 minutes, but obviously with what you do, like you said, it's very nuanced. There's a lot to it. But let's just say for the sake of this podcast, like what are a couple things, like just baseline starting negotiation tips you can give or even a misconception about negotiation,

wherever you want to go with it. Sure. So let me attack each of those. So a misconception about negotiation for one thing. And this is, I'll tie this back to why I referred to them as a counterpart, not an opponent, especially in B2B negotiation is that people think of negotiation as a battle.

And really, negotiation when done well, is collaborative problem solving. And so one of the things I did early on in my training folks in negotiation was I would put people, I would set people up for a mock negotiation, they would instinctually sit on opposite sides of the table. And I'd let them do that for a little while.

And then I'd make them get up and I'd make them sit on the same side of the table. And it's this silly little hack but so that they just orient themselves. You know what? We are actually both trying to solve this problem. Let's also facing the same direction. It's a gentle cruising. You start to see the village, almost like a painting. Join me, travel expert Darley Newman and Univorl Boutique River Cruises L'Iq Bali

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to keep shopping at the real real.com. That's the realreelreel.com. Terms apply. Brilliant. Because we're figuratively facing in the same direction. We're trying to get this done. So let's get it done. So just dismantling this idea of it as

negotiation is inherently combative and turning it into collaborative. So if you're combative in a negotiation, you're more likely to wind up with what's referred to as a distributive negotiation. You have a fixed pie. somebody's going to get 60% of it or whatever percent of it, the other person is going to get, you know, the remainder. You can shift then to a value-creating negotiation framework where both parties can really wind up walking away with more than they thought they could.

A good example of this is, you know, if you've got something you're being asked to give up, you want a little bit of value in exchange for it, maybe an introduction, right? So, hey, I know that you work with ex-company. I would really like to talk to them. can you write me a letter of reference to them? That is no cost. That is free for your other party. It's very valuable to you. And so we look for those areas because that really allows us to maximize that value

and identify those areas where things are differently valued between the two different parties. So let's talk about how everybody can get better in negotiations starting five minutes after they listen to this. The first thing I always tell people is just try. ask, right? You want something ask for it. You never get anything you don't ask for, generally speaking. And so ask, ask, ask. And when you do that,

one, it'll stop being scary because it's scary for a lot of people. But two, you'll just learn about how to get what you want. And so it's always in the asking and getting comfortable with being told no, right? So just getting rid of that fear.

But the other component is that is, that is really important and integral to getting better is never give anything up without getting something in return. It doesn't have to be a lot. It doesn't have to mean the same thing to them than it does to you, right? An introduction, a letter of reference. But if I'm giving something up, if I'm ceding a position, I'm going to ask you for something in return. And at Table Force, we refer to that as the habit and the loop. You get into this habit and this loop of, yes, I can do that if you do this. No, I can't do that. But if you can do this, then maybe I can help you out here. this kind of understanding of exchange.

Push and pull. Yeah. And what that does is not just, it's not just extractive, right? You're not just taking, taking, taking. You're exchanging. And when you're exchanging, you're actually also building a relationship and you're making things a little bit stickier. So when people negotiate our way, they, they tend to wind up with more strategic partnerships

than they do just transactional relationships. Because transactional relationships are kind of bulky and cumbersome. And when you can move towards more of a strategic partnership, if there are some profound efficiencies there. So before I talk to you, if I knew someone was going into a negotiation and they came out, I might ask, so did you win? Is it a win-loss thing? No.

So it can be. It ideally isn't. And especially, again, I'll qualify in B2B negotiation. We teach people how to get win-win outcomes because, in a B2B negotiation in the vast majority of B2B negotiations, your goal is to interact with that other party again. If this works, I want to come back. I want them to do another deal. I want to buy more drill bits from you, or I want to, you know, so it, there is opportunity and when you're in a negotiation, you want to think about your immediate needs, you know,

what you're trying to get out of it, but you also want to set that stage for a continued relationship. And so moving to an area where it's win-win, and you're not, you know, you want to know what you can give up, right? You need to know what you can give up. You need to know what you have to absolutely shield. So as long as you stay within that and you protect what you need to and you never give up without getting something in return, then that is what turns negotiations into win-win. So win-lose negotiations obviously exist. But when done well, win-win negotiations are really achievable. Yeah.

And that makes total sense. many times in many instances where someone said, just get to the next meeting. That's the goal of this meeting is get to the next one. Sure. And it sounds like that applies. Patrick Griffin, table force. I could talk about the negotiation aspect all day,

but I want to respect your time. And Danny, you know, he's going to kill me if I keep going. I want to talk about the Erie Canal Museum, because this is fascinating. And the Erie Canal, it's funny. because when I heard about this, I was excited because as you know, Mike Ron is coming into the Syracuse area. So one of the things that we keep hearing over and over from different people is

they're saying that this is the biggest thing since the Erie Canal. So obviously people from around here know the significance of the Erie Canal and, you know, a little bit of the history. But to have an entire museum kind of reiterates my point of that, it really is a big deal. I know you said you wanted to get involved because you want to get involved in the community. was it just something that was kind of on your radar and you saw it like, oh, the Erie Canal Museum, I've always wanted to, or how did this come about? Great question. So I wanted to dig into the community. I knew only a little bit about Central New York and Syracuse, but I knew enough to know that the Erie Canal was a pivotal factor in the emergence of Syracuse as a city.

And so I felt, and I continue to feel, then in order to understand Syracuse, you have to understand the canal. You have to understand the impact of that, of that massive economic and technological achievement. Yeah. And so it's really remarkable. And one of the things, so the Erie Canal itself, as I said, was built over a period of seven years.

They had a toll for it at the time. So you had to pay a toll. And yet what happened was there was a series of tolls. There were what are called wheylock buildings where you would bring your boat into this building. It's a lock that would weigh your boat. quote, Waylock building. And that would determine how much fare you paid, how much toll you paid.

The Erie Canal Museum in downtown Syracuse is in the only remaining Waylock building in North America. So that is exactly where the original canal passed through. Wow. And it's in this building that is another technological marvel. And so, you know, we don't have the scales there or anything any longer. But just conceptually, it's an incredible thing to think. think about, you know, how do you solve this problem 200 years ago? Right.

And the people who built the canal had never built a canal before. So they were making up new technology left and right to like pull a stump, move a rock, or figure out the grade because you need to make sure that, you know, you're not moving too far up or down. Yeah. And so there's just, it's such a rich topic. And I felt that it was a good fit for integrating myself in the community while also learning about the history of series. Yeah. And it's incredible.

you know, the lock systems. I remember growing up and seeing, you know, my parents teaching me about, you know, lock 17 or lock 24 along, you know, and just watching how these things operate. And it's absolutely incredible to think about people coming together back then and doing it first. There's a lot going on at the Erie Canal Museum.

Kind of what's your mission? Is it to kind of just spread more of the history about the canal? because there's events going on. You have galleries that are kind of mainstays, but you have rotating galleries or exhibits, excuse me. What is the Eerie Canal Museum all about? So normally I'd be able to quote for you our actual mission statement, but I'm worried I'll just love it if I try now.

But the goal of the Eerie Canals Museum is to educate the community on the impact, both social, technological, and economic on the communities in Central New York. And one of the things about that, excuse me, is that we have been telling the story a certain way for a long time. And there are aspects of that story that we haven't always told well. For example, the impact on the indigenous community, on the Native American nations here.

And so one of the big things that we're trying to do under the leadership of our executive director is get better at telling those stories that we haven't always told. And in an inequitable way, and in a way that really reflects the reality of those changes, both good and negative. Sure. Positive and negative. And so it is the nice thing about it is that there is just so much there. And so, yes, as you said, we have some fixed exhibits.

We have rotating exhibits that come through. We're getting better and better every year at throwing events. And we've got really incredible professionals at the museum that put together instructional programs. We have a gala coming up where we're collaborating with the Onondaga Historic. Association. Excellent. That is this month and they may or may not come out before this airs. But we're just, we are, so the trustees and the employees there are all sort of a

self-selected group of people who are just trying to do things better and use some skills we developed in our professional lives for a different purpose. And because of that, you wind up with this really wonderful cocktail of, of, you creativity and curiosity and just storytelling. It's amazing. Is there something, again, I feel like I'm putting you on the spot, but is there one kind of cool fact about the Erie Canal that you can think of off the top of your head? Like if I was to go to the museum and leave and go,

I can't believe that this was, you know, this happened or this is a part of it. What's something that people don't know too much about? Sure. So I think my favorite thing, and I don't know how specifically we talk about this in the museum exhibits itself. But so New York, obviously, was a major economic center. It continues to be, but 200 years ago it already was. And by virtue of developing the area canal, you connect the Great Lakes to New York City. Everybody knows that, right?

You come down the canal, go down to Hudson, you get to New York. But what a lot of people don't think about is that once you can connect to the Great Lakes system, you can connect to the Mississippi. And once you can connect to the Mississippi, you can connect to the Gulf of Mexico. Really? And so because of that, there is a massive triangle of the eastern portion of this country that becomes an economic circuit instead. And so it kind of completes the Eur Canal, completed this circuit and became an absolute economic revolution as a result. And I think it's really a major part. You know, it's funny.

The federal government at the time refused to contribute any funds to the development of the New York Canal Museum. They considered a New York problem, New York State problem. and but the impact, the benefits for the nation as a whole would be really difficult to calculate. Yeah. You should have went back to the federal government and said, this isn't a New York problem. We're talking about the Mississippi. We're talking about, you know, this giant triangle. That's the exact answer I was hoping for.

That is so cool. Just when I thought, okay, we've talked about Table Force. We've talked about the Erie Canal Museum. You also work for Morrigan Strategic Advisors. So, first of all, do you sleep ever? But second of all, tell us a little bit about the Strategic Advisors, Morgan Strategic Advisors. So Morgan Strategic Advisors is my company, my wife and I own it together, but she's not operationally involved. And it is my, it's what we call a fractional chief financial officer practice.

So I'm essentially a consultant. Okay. And I work as a chief financial officer for small companies that are growing but aren't yet. get large enough where they can really justify a full-time CFO. And so the practice of being a fractional CFO is pretty broad and takes a bunch of different shapes. And it's a growing practice. So in 2025, it was expected to grow about 60% in terms of the number of people or opportunities

in the fractional CFO space. And so each of us has to, anybody who considers themselves a fractional CFO, you have to be specific about what you're good at. And so fractional means part-time, but it also means part in scope. And so what I do, where I specialize, is that I work with companies that already exist, so I don't really work with startups. So I work with companies that already exist, have product market fit, and are looking to grow, but growth is expensive. So how do you do that? And so I come in with a strategic guidance from a financial perspective, said, okay, you're at this inflexibility.

point where you need to grow, but you need to know how to do that in a smart way. You need to have the right systems in place so that it's sustainable. Maybe you need to access outside capital. And so I help them get to that next level. And my goal with these, so currently, this is a practice I keep small on purpose. Actually, there was about a year ago. So I started this practice in the spring of 2024. And it only happened because somebody approached me and asked me to help. It was somebody with an existing business, same thing, opening a second location, and didn't know how to do that from a financial perspective. And so I said, sure, I'll help. And then I figured out how to be good at that.

And then somebody else approached me and asked me for help. And then somebody else. And all of a sudden, I had six companies that wanted my help with this, and it was too many. For a few reasons. One, I was really focused on negotiation, table force. And two, I couldn't do well at six. It was too many. I couldn't give them all the attention and the care they did.

Yeah. And so I fired all my clients except for one, this wonderful analytical lab out in Rochester, and kept it at that level. And then earlier this year, I received a call from some of the folks at Center State, and they asked me to speak with another company, and so I took on a second client. And that's been a real joy because it allows me to flex these skills, these capabilities that I developed in my financial career. for these companies that just get me so excited because the founders are just incredible people.

And so I get to be selective with who I work with. I only work with people for whom I can be an unabashed cheerleader. And so that's just a source of joy for me. So there's a little money in it. But really it's a source of joy for me. And it happened by surprise. It wasn't by design. One factor that we didn't mention that is helpful is I.

after grad school, I wound up co-writing a textbook on working capital management. And so I'd had that sort of academic endeavor of understanding working capital needs between different industries. And then my experience as a banker was really helpful with that as well. So I found a way to redeploy my skill. And I do sleep. I've got three kids. I have another board I work on as well.

And I've got these businesses. And it's interesting because it's all one of the joys of being an entrepreneur in this case is that, you know, I set my own schedule. And I really feel like I have more time than I've had in years. And I don't think that's true. I just think I'm in command of my time and I'm doing more things that bring me joy. And so it doesn't feel like, you know, the work doesn't feel like toil if you catch the distinction. 100%. That's the old, you know, the old cliche of like if you end up doing, you know, having a.

a career doing something you love, it doesn't feel like work. And you know, you're an incredible incredible entrepreneur and person. I'm really impressed with everything you do. I wish I had thought about it. We should have done a mock negotiation. That would have been hilarious and I would have failed miserably. Before we go, Patrick Griffin, you are incredible. What are some of the things coming up for maybe Morgan, strategic advisors, table force, the Erie Canal Museum, any plugs, any events, any websites, social media, anything you want to talk about. So I have to give a lot of credit to the formerly called the Tech Garden, now Inspire at the Innovation Hub. They just had their grand opening almost two weeks ago of their new facility downtown,

$32 million renovation of this space. And what they do is they help businesses grow. and they do it in a much more comprehensive way than I do. But the Tech Garden at the time, now Inspire, was really instrumental in me even being here today because they were the first ones to give me a room to teach negotiation. And the folks that work over there, I'm kind of an on-call advisor.

I still teach down there sometimes, and they'll call me up and ask me to help here and there. We might be formalizing that a little bit right now. But they are such an incredible resource. the breadth of skill and capability there, you know, well beyond things I can do, people who are really good at marketing and technologies and understanding, you know, legal considerations. It's an incredible resource and anybody looking to build a business or grow their business locally should be aware of Inspire and should try to get involved there. they have a lot of new space and and there's you know that kind of alchemy that you get when you're able to rub shoulders with other professionals in different disciplines yeah they have co-working space that they're opening up and so there's just a ton of value down there and i'm not as i said i'm not formally involved there i just i show up and help when they want me to but but i just admire what they do and i owe a lot to them for for all the value they've pumped into this into this area that's incredible man i uh I love everything you do.

I'm so glad you came on. I got to ask you one fun last question because you mentioned you lived downstate and you moved up here not knowing much about the area. And Matt and I always joke on the show how there's so many different perceptions of what upstate is. So living in New York City for as long as you did,

when you hear upstate, where's the line? Where does upstate start and end for you? I got to know. There's no wrong answer. There's no. Or maybe there is. So I'm from Long Island. Okay, all right, so you're down down.

And on Long Island, anything north of Westchester is considered upstate. That's what I always say. Now, I have just out of just to try to be considerate to my neighbors and peers, I've tried to become a little bit more nuanced in my understanding of that. I refer to Western New York and Central New York. But all of it's upstate if you're North of Westchester. That's, well, and that's Matt's thing, is he's like, you know, I don't care as much about the line as people say upstate. This is Central New York.

There's Western New York. There's the Southern tier. And I get that. but, you know, we like to keep it simple. What's upstate? And, you know, for a long time, you know, my mom's from the Bronx originally. I spend a lot of time down on the city. And it's funny when I talk to people what they perceive as upstate.

And sometimes they're like, yeah, what upstate do the cat skills, they say is a big one. But I'm talking. They say like, Poughkeepsie, you know, it's like Poughkeepsie's not upstate. Anyway, Patrick Griffin of Table Force, Morgan, Strategic Advisors, and the Erie Canal Museum. It has been a pleasure talking to you. best of luck and come back anytime. Thank you, Mike. This is a real treat. I've really enjoyed it. And with that, we're going to say goodbye on this Wednesday episode of Good News, York, sponsored by ads on the go. We'll be back tomorrow. You can catch me on all socials at

Mike B TV, like and subscribe to us at Good News York, where any podcasts are on all social media. And GNY Sports, a new episode going to drop tomorrow. So we will see you then. It's a gentle cruising. You start to see the village, almost like a painting. Join me, travel expert Darley Newman, and Uniworld Boutique River Cruises L'Ik Balee to learn about river cruising in France. As we have been sailing there for decades, we have been able to create deep connection with the local communities. Local connections make exploring France easy. Tune into the Travels with Darley podcast on IHeart and wherever you listen to podcasts to hear about river cruising and Univorold's 50th anniversary summer specials.

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