Good News York by Growth Mode Content - GNY EP.155 | Feat. Joe Carfi from Bad Bosses the Podcast

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Introducing The Bad Bosses Podcast: Turning Bad Leadership Into Good On Good News, York, host Matt (Clickstream Studios) welcomes Joe, a new Clickstream content creator, to discuss his podcast concept, The Bad Bosses, drawn from his 36-year career at Syracuse University (35 in management, 26 as a director). Joe aims to educate and entertain by sharing anonymized stories about bad bosses while defining what makes good leadership, noting many workplaces promote supervisors without preparing them. He critiques at-will employment laws, especially in New York, and proposes state-mandated supervisor development programs for employers with 50+ employees, using models like law enforcement promotion testing to identify strengths and weaknesses. He links bad bosses to turnover, stress, and unionization, recommends confronting a bad boss first, and invites guests via badbosses.org and [e-mail], while also plugging leadership development resources and local sponsors. 00:00 Who Do You Wanna Fire 00:26 Welcome To Good News York 01:00 Meet The Bad Bosses Host 01:27 Why Bad Bosses Happen 02:43 Training Gaps Across Industries 03:37 At Will Employment Explained 05:12 Testing And Training For Leaders 08:05 Every Employee Deserves A Good Boss 09:19 Unions And Workplace Treatment 11:35 Firing With Humanity 13:20 Share Your Bad Boss Story 15:08 Leadership Programs And Resources 19:19 Which Industries Are Worst 23:04 Advice For Dealing With A Bad Boss 25:07 Where To Find The Podcast 26:26 Closing And Sponsor Shoutout

I had a boss once call me up and say, you know, when I first started reporting to him, calls me up, says, who do you want to fire? You know, and I was kind of taken back by that comment, and I said, I don't want to fire anybody. Hey, folks, welcome to Good News, York. I'm Matt Meager from Clickstream Studios. We are having a great time. I love this set. We keep using this set over and over and over.

You're not going to realize that we have a whole other slew of different options, but you're going to see those soon because there's lots of awesome things going on. Shout out to Danny and Noah if you caught yesterday's episode of GNY. It was a great one. Welcome Noah, the newest member of the team. Lots of cool things happening. But speaking of cool things happening, we got a gentleman here who is one of the newest content creators on our roster here at ClickStream Studios.

He came to us and he said, you know what, I got this great podcast idea. And we said, that is a great idea. And we've rolled into making some episodes that you'll be able to see here. Let's go ahead and introduce yourself, sir, and tell us what you're all about. Thanks, man. I really appreciate it to initiate it. I brought you, you know, one of our bad bosses, the podcast ads. Sweet.

So came up with this concept after a career at Syracuse University, 36 years, 35 in management, and then director, 26 years as a director. One of the things over the years that, you know, I kind of looked at was what makes a manager effective, what makes them good, what makes them bad, had some really good bosses, but had some bad bosses. So obviously bad bosses affect all of us, you know, more than good bosses do in all likelihood, and started to really look into it and realized, you know, from talking to people that there's not a lot of training out there. There's not a lot going on as far as what companies are doing, and I think they've gotten away from it even more. So as far as bad bosses are concerned as a concept, what we want to try to accomplish is, you know, we want to educate people. We want to have fun. We want to talk about bad bosses, but we also want to talk about good bosses and what makes a good boss.

And what makes a bad boss. That's really the lesson ultimately, right? As much as we call it bad bosses, really the goal is to get to a point where people are not bad bosses, right? Absolutely. And how do we get there? So, you know, as I've gone around and started this, I've talked to everybody, not everybody, but I've talked to people in many different industries. So from fast food to actual food service, you know, restaurant and fast food, they're a little different animals. So people need to realize that there's challenges there.

Also retail, from the larger retail stores to the smaller retail stores to the smaller retail stores. stores. You know, the other day I witnessed in a smaller retail store, you know, a manager, you know, dressing down an employee with people all around. And ironically, I had this on, and I was looking at the supervisor like, do you not get this concept? And so obviously people, yeah, people don't get the concept. So, you know, what kind of training is available? So that's, you know, really what we want to look at? And what do organizations do when they promote somebody? What they frequently do not do is prepare them to be a manager, to be a supervisor. So, you know, one of the things that I have become very fond of is legislation.

As I looked at some of the laws, not sure everybody knows this, but every state in America has a law called you work at the will of your employer. So it's at will employment, right? At will employment. New York is obviously one of the stricter states like we are with most of our laws. That law has been on the books for over 100 years. Wow. And, you know, from my personal perspective, and I think once it gets out there, and I'd love to see the governor and the state legislature really take this issue up, I think it's time we change this law. This law is outdated.

It protects the employer more than the employee. When people are wrongfully terminated or pushed out of an organization, frequently when you seek legal counsel, they'll tell you, well, you know, New York's a work at will of the employer law. Well, that doesn't make it right. Yeah. So I really think that the times have changed. and it's something that we should take a look at. I'd also like to see... And Joe, just for a second, for folks that don't know,

in a nutshell, the at-will employment basically means, like, an employer can get rid of anybody at any time for pretty much any reason, right? Is that a fair description? Yeah, that's absolutely correct. Of course, there are other laws. You know, you can't fire somebody based on their sexual orientation and their ethnic background and all of that

and religion, all those protected. However, employees, employers always find ways around different things. So there's there's some other legislation that not only would I like to see that changed but I'd like to see some new legislation. So one of the things as I've read and I've talked to people and one of the series that you know I started we when I started the podcast we did one on law enforcement so leadership and law enforcement so I'll go to my grave saying that law enforcement is an area that people underappreciate and one of

the things that law enforcement has done effectively over the years is that their supervisors, their sergeants, their lieutenants, their captains, they have to take a test. It's a kind of a screening process that a lot of people don't realize and may not be familiar with. Well, what if we took that model and we adopted that to every industry? Yeah. So I'm not saying you have to take a test to get promoted, but say you get promoted. Now, I've worked for people who have had master's degrees, MBAs, and I've worked for people who didn't have any degrees at all. And I don't think it's something that's necessarily comes with an MBA, or doesn't come with an MBA.

So I think it's incumbent on employers today to come up with something similar. So the concept that I had is any company that's employed 50 or more employees regardless of what the industry might be, they should be mandated by the state to have a program to make sure that the supervisor is effective and is, for lack of a better term, a good boss, right?

You don't want to have a bad boss. We want to have a good boss. And I'm not, so what my concept is, and what I really hope the state legislature will take a look at and the government will take a look at is legislating a program that each employer should have to make supervisors effective and to make them good supervisors. So we don't have to have a bad boss podcast. We can have a total good boss. How do you do that?

How do you achieve that? So how do you achieve that? Not a pass or fail test, but a test that kind of evaluates where your strengths and weaknesses are before you actually leading or managing people. things that are important. It sounds like something that should be done as upper leadership is deciding who might be moved up or put in these positions. You know, sounds like that's the type of evaluation you might want to know before you put them in that position, right? I would say absolutely yes. And not necessarily to disqualify because you can develop people.

Correct. And that's really, you bring up a good point. That's really one thing that I want to resonate is that we're not looking to disqualify people. I've worked for good bosses and I've worked for bad bosses. Now, even the bad bosses, I saw glimmers of goodness in them. Yeah. So if we could, we want to make those bosses good bosses. And I put myself out there.

There are things that I did, you know, early on in my career and throughout my career that I'm certainly not proud of that probably some training or some mentoring would have made me much more effective or made my management skills a little bit different. So I think that we should. should come up with a plan that every company has to have and has to prove that they have a program to develop people. So, you know, one of the things that I believe that I was talking to your team about is very strongly is that every person should have good parents.

Every child deserves good parents. And in connection with that, I believe that every employee should have a good boss. And sometimes I think they go hand in hand. Because if you're brought up by a bad parent, you're going to bring that into your adult. And you could end up in a management position or you could not. And that plays out. So I really would like to see more emphasis on developing good bosses and looking at the actual things that make a good boss a good boss, emotional intelligence, compassion, empathy.

And then, you know, you could certainly talk to people. So I was a manager at a very young age, say 24 years old, I think it was. So when you're 24, when you're 34, when you're 44, you know, you have different life experiences. Those different life experiences you also affect how you manage, how you lead. Within that context, there's a whole bunch of variables that I really would love to get into and that having guests on and talking about their different experiences and in the different industries. And one of the other things that, you know, I think is critically important is Bad bosses lead to unionization.

Now, I'm not pro or against union, either way, but I do understand the reason why they exist. I was a labor relations manager. I want to plug OCC here. I know that I community college had a great program of labor studies back in the 80s. And it was a great program because it really taught us where labor unions came from, how they started, and what American workers went through before labor unions came into power. So, you know, I asked, you know, the labor unions, the AFL, CIOs, the Teamsters, the communications workers of America, the auto workers of America, you know, I know you're at the table, I know you're out there, I know you're visible. But are you looking at the law that the employer work at the will of the employer?

You know, that's over 100 years old. Why aren't people talking about it? And I really think that, you know, I'm a son of a union man. My father climbed telephone polls for a living. He was a communications worker of America. So I have a deep appreciation back in the 70s. They were on strike for seven months, you know, out on the old picket line, which, you know, probably a lot of people aren't familiar with. You know, all the guys huddled around the barrels, you know, out there. And what were they trying to do?

They were trying to get a better work environment, better wages, better health benefits, you know, and a better work environment the way they're actually being treated. Well, you know, like you said, it's unions have done a lot of really great things for people, but they've only had to, right? It's not necessarily a charity. They are a result of companies that didn't know how to treat their employees well without making them fight for it, unfortunately. I totally agree with that.

You know, I think everything you're talking about, that's the part that I find a little bit ironic, especially as a business owner myself, is everything you're talking about, obviously from the workers' perspective, which is ideal, but at the same time, like, this is all positives for the business. The business runs smoother. It's more profitable. You have less turnover.

All these things, if you don't have these folks that are just not effective and are bad leaders, are pushing out good people in many cases. You know, one of the things that I'll share with you is, you know, I had a boss once call me up and say, you know, when I first started reporting to him, calls me up, says, who do you want to fire? You know, and I was kind of taken back by that. comment and I said, I don't want to fire anybody. So unfortunately, when you're in a management position, you know, you do have to fire people. Yeah. But you should never feel good about it. Yeah, no. You know, whether, whatever the circumstances were, if it was an egregious violation of the

company. But at the end of the day, when I did have to do that, I went home and I thought about that person, how it affected their life and what it was going to mean for them to move forward. So, you know, I never managed or I never looked at who can I fire today. And to hear that, from, you know, another leader. It's like, what made you come to that, that it's all about firing people? It's not always about firing people. It's about empowering people. Yeah. And you can empower them through educating them. So you could do that with your staff and you could do that with your management team. One of the other things that I think is probably something, just from talking to people and going into different establishments in the past several months and talking to managers, sometimes a manager wants to be a good

but their boss doesn't allow them to be a good boss. And it's very frustrating to work for somebody who isn't giving you the tools that you need to be a good boss to your people. So I feel real passionate about it. I think it's something that we is going to catch on. I'd love to travel the country. I'd love to go to every state talking about bad bosses. Just from talking to people randomly, everyone is, some of the stories I've already heard, some of them are horrible. Yeah.

Absolutely horrible. Yeah. It's incredible, really. And on that topic, I'll just mention because it's a great segue, you can actually be a guest on the Bad Boss's podcast. If you have some stories that are horrible, or just good lessons that should be shared. Now, of course, we're not going to name names or do anything like that.

We'll anonymize everything and make it there. But I think these stories are, A, they're interesting. and also just what great examples of what not to do, right? Because I think what you find in some of these that's very interesting is you'll hear these stories in this, the buildup, you'll start to recognize things. Like, oh, wait a minute, I've had a boss who did that thing. Correct.

I had a boss that did that thing. They never went this far, but we were clearly on the same path. And this is actually, you know, I think this is so egregious. And then I'm realizing that I experienced something, you know, similar. But it gives you that just incredible stories and then a great place to learn and go from there. Joe, if you could, just while I'm on that, give your email address because if folks want to be a part of this show, they want to be a guest and sit down with Joe and talk about their employment experiences. Absolutely.

Our website is up, and we'd love to hear from you if you want to be on the podcast. Tell us your story, good, bad. I definitely would like to hear good stories. I definitely want to hear the bad ones because there's both. So just email us at info at badbosses.org, and we'd be more than happy to follow up with you. And of course, we're going to go through a screening process, you know, for some of the things you identified. We want to make sure that we don't want to throw any companies under the bus.

But what we do want to do is we want to get the message out there that we need to turn the tide and we need to create an environment where we're creating good bosses. And I want to give a shout out to one organization here in town, which the leadership Greater Syracuse Organization. They're a great organization. Syracuse University was a big supporter of them, I believe they still are. I had the opportunity because the person that I was working for at the time, thought it was a good program, sent a lot of his team there, and they do a great job.

I think that everybody should take a look at their website, and if you're a company and you want to create good leaders within your company, leadership, greater Syracuse is an organization you really should take a look at. Is that the program that goes over a series of months? It does. It's kind of a cohort that graduates every year sort of thing? It absolutely does. Yeah, and I am a graduate of that program,

and I'm glad you asked that question because, you know, one of the things that I... Not just a one-day seminar. It's not. So, you know, when I went, I was probably been in management, you know, probably at that time, 25 years. You can always learn something new from somebody else. And one of the things that I loved about the program was the diversity of the program. Everybody, different ages, different backgrounds, different ethnic backgrounds. And we all came together and you would be surprised how much people actually have in common.

And, you know, Leadership Grade of Syracuse is actually a great example of what companies could do internally. Yeah. You know, back in the 80s and early 90s when I was a young manager at the university, they had a program that was started by managers, and it was called Managers Roundtable. And it really was just a bunch of managers who got together and talked about some of the challenges. And, you know, people think that, you know, you become a manager all of a sudden you know everything. And you don't. And the other thing that people fail to realize is that not only don't you know anything, but you have a life as well outside of your employment. And there are things that affect you just like it affects, you know, divorces, deaths.

You're also a person. Right? Yeah, you're also a person. So there's a lot of room here for improvement. And that's really what I want to do. I really want to make a difference. You know, one of my idols is John Walsh. You know, a lot of people may be familiar with his story.

Some may not. You know, John Walsh took a tragic situation, you know, where his son was abducted and murdered, and he created America's Most Wanted. And look at what he was able to do with that. So obviously not to that level. But certainly, if you go around and you talk to people, you will find within five people someone who left the job

because of their boss. Oh, yeah. because of the stress, because of the anxiety, because of the mental anguish. 100%. So what can we do to change it? I think there's a lot we can do to change it. And I'm hoping his podcast can do some of that for us. I think you're definitely on the right path.

This is a great thing. I do want to give one other plug, if we could. Joe, you mentioned the leadership group here in Syracuse. If you're not in Syracuse, or even if you are, our mutual friend, Mark O'Donnell from Operations Excellence, this is a lot of what he does, actually, as he goes into companies and, you know, one of the ways he describes it is, you know, he'll take folks that you want to move up in the company but aren't quite ready to go in those positions. And he's got whole programs to help develop future leaders in organizations. And he's got some great track records of organizations he's worked with where he's put dozens of folks through the plan and they've been able to successfully move them up in the organization.

And, you know, so there's things, programs like this that. And individuals out there. If you realize the value in this as a company, a management, look into it because there are options for you to do it. And I've watched some of his videos, and he's very good. And speaking of plugs, my old boss actually does a little consulting, too. It's called Callistal Consulting. So he was a former sheriff's department employee and also the chief of the Public Safety Department at Syracuse University before becoming a senior vice president. Great leadership skills offers the same kind of thing, you know,

training, more specific to law enforcement, but very applicable across the board. So, you know, give him a plug as well. And I'm actually going to link off of our website to both Mark's website and to Tony's website, Callisto Consulting. That's great. Joe, I want to ask you a couple more questions, and I'll let you get out of here. We originally talked about and you talked about some of the different industries and you're talking, you know, restaurants and whatever.

Just off the top of your head, this doesn't have to be scientific. I won't hold you to this. but what industry would you say has the most bad bosses? Wow. I guess the best way to answer that is the industry that does the least amount of training. Okay. But out of the ones you've been talking to, do you think, because here, I'll tell you where I'm at with this is,

from the experiences of folks I've talked to for my whole life, basically, it seems to me like restaurants are, are ground zero for some of the worst in management? I would tend to agree with you because I think most of the feedback that I've gotten lately is from the restaurant industry as well as the retail industry. Like I spoke to a manager in retail. I won't name the store. And I said, you know, what kind of training do they do?

And they said to me, what do you mean? I said, well, when you became a manager, what they do? Well, they stuck me in a store with another manager for two weeks and said, here you go, and then they gave me a store. Here's how to do the paperwork. So, you know, if you've been in management, there's disability law, there's workman's comp law, there's things you can say in interviews that you shouldn't say and that you can say, questions you can ask. None of that training went on.

And then, you know, how to build a team, how to bring people together, how to find commonality. You know, you can't just make somebody a manager and give them a staff and say, here you go. And that's how you create a bad boss. Yeah. That's the, I think you're right. I think in both those retail and restaurant, it's a matter of they take somebody who was on the team and they give them an extra 25 cents an hour, and now you're in charge of everybody. But like you said, yesterday you're on the other side of the line, and he certainly didn't tell you anything more between now and then, and now you're kind of thrown into it. So, again, it all goes back to as much as you might want to fault people.

That's just a bad person. Well, not necessarily. Like you said, no one's ever given them the tool. to do the job properly? Well, one of the things that, you know, I learned is that you're never too old to learn something. So even though you may have years of experience, you could still learn from somebody.

I learned a lot from my last supervisor, both good and bad supervisors. And, you know, one of the things I learned is how I didn't want to be treated. One of the things I used to say to my team is that I want to go to work and I want to be happy. I want to look forward to going to work. I know that's kind of, you know, ironic,

but I think everybody does. I mean, it's a necessary evil in this world today. So I want the people who work, I want the people who worked for me to look forward to coming to work. And there's so many variables to that because then you throw in the weather in Central New York, and you're already stressed out from driving through a snowstorm. Now you've got to come into work and you have a boss

that doesn't appreciate your efforts or doesn't appreciate what you do. Boy, that can make for a lousy day. And what we want to do is we want to try to change that. We want to make it a positive experience. Yeah. I love that, Joe. This is great.

the bad bosses, the podcast is the name of the podcast. It's awesome. Like I said, there's a bunch of episodes that are going to see, and we've got a bunch more planned that I think are going to be both interesting and educational, which is great, you know, because you could give a very boring lecture on this topic. Absolutely. And then it's not what's happening on this podcast. Right. No, we don't want to be boring. This is some educational entertainment. And we're happy here at Clickstream Studios to help you make that and put it out and get it to the world. But this is such a neat thing. Joe, last question, and I'll throw at you. If you could give one tidbit advice to a worker who unfortunately

is stuck with a bad boss, but a job they would like to stay with, what's one bit of advice you could give that person? Well, the first bit of advice I would give them is to actually confront the supervisor or manager and say, hey, you know, I really like this job, but I really feel like we have a communication problem. A lot of times it might be just a simple misunderstanding, but start there. I've never been one to just automatically jump over a person's head or recommend that to anybody. But if you start there and that doesn't work, then I would suggest that you go to their supervisor. But the problem, there is a problem with that. And that's part of the reason why I feel so passionate about creating this podcast is that a lot of times bosses will just push it back down to that boss

and say, you know, you need to figure this out and settle it. Not really identifying that there may be a larger problem afoot here. Right. It might be the boss. That's, I think that's good advice. That's good advice. And hey, especially in

Central New York, it's starting to become a workers' market, right? So that's the other thing. Going back to what I said earlier, this affects the company as much as anybody else. So this is not the time to be driving good folks out of your organization.

That's correct. It's the last thing you want to do. So, Joe, thank you so much. Thank you, Matt. I am truly a hat guy, so this is pretty cool. We're going to have apparel on our website, so people will be able to buy bad boss shirts, bad bot sweatshirts like this, and hats, absolutely. See, I think that's like your story at the beginning when you're at the store there and the guy was being obnoxious. I think everybody needs a bad boss shirt, so you can just kind of wink

and go, yeah. You really want to be, you know, reprimanding an employee. Right. And I actually wanted to intercede because I felt. so bad for the employee and say, you might want to just take him in the back and have this conversation. So yeah, hopefully that'll minimize it. Yeah, hey, that's it.

Joe, the last thing is, let's just give your plugs. What is the website and all that fun stuff? So the website is badbosses.org. And then the email is info at badbosses.org. So just if you want to come on our podcast and tell us your story, share your experience, good and bad. I've talked to some HR managers already who are interested in coming on, so I'd love to see that.

because they play a critical role in development of supervisors and managers. But I also want to hear from, you know, the people that are entering the workforce today that are just graduating from college. What's your expectation? You know, I'm blessed to have, you know, nephews and nieces and little cousins, and they're entering the workforce graduating from college. You know, what's your expectation? And it's very different than our expectation was 30 years ago.

And they're going to be the leaders and the future developers of the programs. for the future. So I'd certainly love to hear from them as well. That's awesome. Joe, we will have all those links and everything, of course, in the description. Check that out. Subscribe to the podcast anywhere you get podcasts. This is a good show. This is one to listen to. So we're, again, just so happy to help you put it out there. And also very happy to have you on Good News York this morning. Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. Appreciate you coming in and joining us here.

With that, I think we're going to head out for the day. Guys, Good News, York is sponsored by Ads on the Go. Get Ads on the Go.com is the website for our man, Zach, and his incredible billboard trucks. He's also now making digital signage for businesses. So if you've seen full color, basically video screens out by the road, that's something now our man, Zach, at Ads on the Go, conduce or reach out to him. Big thanks for your continued sponsorship of the show. Stay tuned for more episodes and all kinds of fun stuff coming to you live from our new studios here. in downtown Syracuse. It's a blast. But for now, peace out.