Good News York by Growth Mode Content - GNY Ep.48 | Taste of David's Refuge | Feat. Dr. Melissa Carman & Diana Nightingale

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Supporting Caregivers: The Power of David's Refuge and Mental Health Partnerships In this episode of Good News York, hosts Matt Masur and Mikey B are joined by Diana Nightingale from David's Refuge and Dr. Melissa Carmen from CNY Mental Health Counseling. They discuss the upcoming David's Refuge event, their inspiring work supporting caregivers of children with special needs or life-threatening medical conditions, and the importance of accessible mental health services. The conversation highlights the vital partnerships and programs that help families cope with immense challenges, underscoring the impact of community support and innovative mental health care. 00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Banter 01:05 Introducing David's Refuge 01:38 Partnership with CNY Mental Health Counseling 02:40 Personal Stories and Impact 05:06 Challenges in Mental Health Services 10:55 David's Refuge Growth and Mission 13:19 Upcoming Fundraiser Event 19:41 Community Support and Resources 20:35 Event Information and Fundraisers 22:41 Understanding David's Refuge Clientele 23:26 Dr. Melissa's Practice and Services 26:53 Misconceptions About Mental Health 28:45 Innovative Therapy Approaches 32:40 The Importance of Therapy for Everyone 35:58 Event Reminders and Closing Remarks

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Hey folks, welcome to Good News York. I'm your host, Matt Major from Growth Mode content, joined always by my spiky-haired Mark McGrath look-alike. What? Yesterday was Vanilla Ice, and today I'm Mark McGrath. Funny story is I originally wanted to say Mark McGrath yesterday, and I fucked it up, so I figured I'd throw that at you today. I just want to flip.

I'll take Mark McGrath. He's a good-looking guy. You know, I actually liked the guy. Yeah, he seems like a decent dude. He hosted E. He sang fly and all those other great hits It's his resume Why am I over here, David?

I don't know Why am I over here, Matt? Because we have guests, my friend Far more interesting people than you and I We, yeah, it's way better looking, way more interesting We're in a good shape for this episode Joining us to talk about the awesome David's refuge event That's coming up in about a week, right?

It's June already, which is weird Ladies, if you want to mind, please go ahead and introduce yourself Go ahead, Diana. I'm Diana Nightingale, and I'm Chief Development Officer for David's Refuge. We're a nonprofit here in Syracuse, serving caregivers of children with special needs or life-threatening medical conditions. Wow. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

Being here. Happy to have you. And I'm Dr. Melissa Carmen, and I own CNY Mental Health Counseling, and we are the official mental health partner to David's Refuge for the last seven years, where we fill fully grant-funded. programming, wellness-oriented programming, individual counseling sessions with licensed mental health counselors through our practice. That's so incredible. We love her. If you remember, for those who have been following along, if you remember our good friend,

Kate joined us on the show and talked to us a little bit about David's Refuge. And I got to tell you, the entire staff clearly, you just as the same as Kate, just can say the mission and clearly, I can tell that you're into it. And honestly, I feel like even more than a lot of organizations you see. And it's, I think that's why you're so effective. And then, of course, you make great partnerships with great professionals like Dr. Melissa here. And we, we heard a little bit about that from Kate as well.

Would you mind expanding upon that, though? Just what, you know, what is sort of this partnership and what are the clients of this organization get from you? Yeah, I'd be happy to. And it's something that I am so passionate about because we're able to bring such accessibility of really top-tier mental health services to this population. So it started, I mean, I was just joking with Mike about this. I'm like, maybe eight years ago or so, I won a raffle basket and one of the David's Refuge fundraisers, I didn't know anything about the organization at the time.

And when Kate called me, I was solo in solo practice. And when she called me to tell me that I won the raffle basket, we hit it off right away. So I started volunteering with David's Refuge and running typical sibling workshops. So bringing the siblings of kids with disabilities and really intense medical conditions together with the understanding that if we could bring them together, do some psychoeducational workshops, but really give them a chance to do something special

and uniquely their own that they otherwise can't, that it would be really healing and wonderful for them. So from there, it just took off. So we started doing more programming, more workshops, more wellness-oriented activities. Then right at the beginning of COVID, Kate had the brilliant idea of writing a grant together. So for the last six years, I believe, we've had a grant that has funded all of the mental health services for David's Refuge families.

And we put together programming now. And since then, my practice has expanded. Now we've got a dozen counselors who provide wellness, outreach, caregiver support groups. We still do typical support groups. But the biggest thing we also do, we do couples intensive workshop, which my husband, Jeff and I. I run to get there. So you've got a real life couple doing it. But we also do David's Refuge through the grant funds for sessions of individual counseling or couples counseling for any of the families in there. So it's a really encompassing program and we're so honored. We all love it in our

practice. It's one of our favorite things to do. It's actually how I got the job here. I want a raffle basket. And I was just volunteering and Matt's like, you know what, we'll hire the guy. You look like Mark McGrath. Yeah, exactly. You look like Mark McGrath. Get in here, boy. It's actually a look-alike content. Yeah, it was. You know, first of all, congratulations on all of that. And thank you for both of you for what you do. As you know, I'm a huge advocate for mental health. And, you know, back to the comment about, you know, Matt saying how you guys are all just so passionate about it. I think I've learned through going to therapy and how I've become passionate about it. I think, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like everybody that's involved in mental health has been touched by it in some sort of way,

whether it's a family member, a friend, or themselves. And when you kind of are on the front lines of seeing somebody or, you know, struggle with mental health or other issues, it drives you to want to fix it, whether it's for yourself or other people. So I think it's almost like you have, I can't imagine ever finding someone involved in mental health who's not passionate about it. Do you find, does that sound pretty accurate? I think that's for sure the truth.

And I think anybody who self-selects into a service-oriented profession like that you have to have a passion. But the other, because it's hard. Yeah. Right. But the other thing, too, is that I think all of us collectively in CNYMont's Health Counseling, David's Refuge, we find the gaps where, you know, we can potentially help somebody and we fill it.

So it's thinking outside of the box really with the common mission of just helping people. Like it's actually that simple. And so that's huge. It's so huge because, you know, I find that you were saying earlier, you know, it's hard to get mental health services or find them. Or some people are just overwhelmed. They don't know where to start. They don't have the resources.

Maybe they're afraid. And I think the problem is a step. You're struggling with things. One more thing to figure out. So it's like the irony is that the hurdles you have to go through sometimes to find mental health counseling. But there's another step to that that I would love your opinion on, which is I've found in my years of therapy that there's sometimes where I've kind of come to a plateau with

a therapist or I think. I'm not viking with this person. And I learned early on that you're doing yourself and that therapist is a disservice. If you continue, it's completely okay to move on. But some of these people are having a hard enough time finding therapy, and then some of them do, and they're not really getting anything from it,

but then they're like, well, I don't want to go through that again. So I think the more accessible we make the health care, the better off it is overall because they're getting health care, but also they'll feel more obliged to say, hey, you know, this isn't vibing. because that's an important part of therapy. Yeah, if you're not viking with your therapist, it's okay. It's pointless.

You need to find somebody that you do vibe with in that case. It's sort of like dating. Yeah. You know, the fit and research supports this. Statistically, it's not, successive therapy isn't as much dependent on the modality that the therapist is using or even the motivation of the person coming in. Those two things matter, but it's more about the relationship and the fit between the therapist and the client because once you have that rapport and that fit, that allows you to do the

deeper work together. So as long as the therapist is trained, like those are basic necessary ingredients that have to go into it. You do have to have motivation. You do have to have a very well-trained therapist. But once you have those and you fit, that's when real healing and magic can really happen. Yeah, I was a therapist when I was telling about my struggle with procrastination and ADHD and she says, well, you know, next time your wife asks you to do what George is say, I'm sorry, but my body's not feeling that right now. And I tried that on my wife and she almost killed me. So that's when I was like, well, I'm going to pack up here.

We're going to try someone out. My wife's like, your body's not feeling that right now. I'll let you feel something. Melissa, are you finding that these folks, these families from David's Refuge and things, are they getting these services outside of what? you've been able to offer or is this kind of their first touch into that. Ooh, that's a great question. I don't know, to be honest. Like, I don't know the actual answer, but I do know that the program that we have with the counseling sessions fills up every single

year. And I know David's Refuge, there's a wait list already to be a part of David's Refuge. So I think collectively, all of the momentum going into trying to help people access the services, whether it be mental health or something else, it's there. So, I mean, my call out would be to foundations, you know, people who are private donors to really put a scope on this and help out where you can. We've got legitimate, successful companies, very well-trained professionals who are able to provide the services, but a lot of times it's finding the funds to support the people. And we've got this. You're listening to a podcast right now, driving, working out, walking the dog. If you're in a podcast, chances are you have something to say too. With RSS.S.com,

Starting your own podcast is free and easy. Upload an episode and we distribute it to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and more. Track your listeners, see where they're from, and start earning from ads just like this. If you've been thinking about starting a podcast, this is your sign. Start your new podcast for free today at RSS.com. You're listening to a podcast right now. Driving, working out, walking the dog. If you're into podcasts, chances are you have something to say too.

With RSS.com, starting your own is free and easy. Upload an episode and we distribute it to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and hundreds more. Track your listeners, see where they're from, and start earning from ads like this. Even with just 10 listeners a month. If you've been thinking about starting a podcast, this is your sign. Start free at RSS.com. Stems in place at this point, and our hope is that we can grow, by really developing, you know, the funds to be able to support the people.

We've got a great team of really professional, like, licensed, trained professional counselors, all master's degrees are higher, and they need to be paid. And so we take care of them. And the families who seek out services through David's Refuge, I mean, it's like, you know, the perfect triangle when we've got the grant funding and we've got professional services and then we've got nonprofits like David's Refuge who have the people who, are in need. To me, it's, you know, that's the way that we can make it more accessible. And if they are seeking services outside of David's refuge, more power to you, you know? Like, we are all about

do whatever you need to do. Yeah. I think these, these partnerships are super critical because we talk about obviously the need for mental health and people think that means that you have to start a mental health charity, you know, and that has to be its only purpose. I think what you've demonstrated here is these partnerships where an organization that's not necessarily 100% of your focus, but can deliver that through a partnership with somebody who is. That's, to me, a model that I think so many

organizations could follow, and I love to see it. Diane, Diana, right? Diana. Sorry. No, I can't read my chicken scratch if it was an E or A. Just remind us, can you talk a little bit about David's Refuge,

just to remind us about what you guys do? Yeah, so We've grown a lot. So David's refuge started in 2012 because Warren and Brenda Full created it out of this experience that they had becoming full-time caregivers for their son David. And they just experience all the things like social isolation, you know, burnout, different, you know, challenges. Why is one person healing faster than the other? I know that's part of it. That can become a problem sometimes too.

Yeah. So they said, you know, we know other families in this area that have experienced similar things. And we want to make sure that they have support. So they created it out of their home and they started taking caregivers in to really just treat them, you know. They would pay for massage therapists to come in. They would make them a beautiful breakfast and just like fellowship with them and show them that, you know, they're not alone. Yeah. And it really grew over time.

So now we're serving over 1,000 caregivers statewide each year. And like Dr. Carmen said, we have over 300 caregivers on our wait list just since January, of 2025. So the growth is there. The need is there. And with, you know, working with partners like Dr. Carmen, that allows our small staff of eight full-time people. Wow. To serve these wonderful caregivers, you know.

in the best way that we can. So partnerships like that are huge to give us the capacity, you know, so that we don't have to turn into a mental health nonprofit. You know, we can see what the needs are of the caregivers, really listen to them deeply, and then partner with different people in the community who are doing those things well and then be able to provide those services to the caregiver. That's awesome. Eight folks serve a thousand.

That's, I don't know the numbers on a lot. charities, but I feel like those are, those are pretty impressive as they go. And when you think of like each application is a family. Sure. So if you think of the ripple effect of a thousand applications, a thousand families. It's a thousand families wide. And we're getting more applications from all over, reading them from Chautauqua to Long Island, upstate, you know, so really all over the state now.

And I think that's a great way to transition to talk about this event that supports this incredible organization, right? So go ahead and tell us a little bit about it, and then we'll have the Grand Puba tell us a little more. I like that. I couldn't remember the actual name of the thing. The Grand Puba.

Chair. Okay. She's the honorary chair. I think she's the Grand Puba. I think we're going to change it to Grand Puba. Change your email footer. I just imagine you and a big hat and a cape and things. Well, I'll make sure I get that. Yeah. Absolutely.

What is this event all about? So it's Taste of David's Refuge. So each year we have our biggest fundraiser and social event of the year. It is on June 13th this year at 530 at Heritage Hill Brewery and Pompey. And it is just a wonderful evening. It's like a celebration. So it's less formal, you know, dress comfortably, wear cowboy boots or like whatever makes you feel good, you know. It's not so formal.

So there aren't, you know, roundtable set up where you're sitting for a formal program. It's like more of an evening to see and get a taste of what David's Refuge is about. It's about being natural, being honest and open, being in your community, talking with other people, finding, you know, what's been going on in their lives and just deeply caring about each other. We have amazing supporters and sponsors who attend the event, but also we send caregivers every year. We have a few different sponsors that donated all their tickets back so that we could invite caregivers and let them have like a date night. So it's just a really fun event. Dr. Carmen is our honorary chair this year. And we're really excited to just share a little bit about what she's done for the caregivers that David's Refuge serves and just all the things that, you know, she does for us.

We just love her so much. I mean, she is the Grand Puba. She is. What do you expect? The one and only. I still don't know what that means. It's not a bad thing. I've heard.

What is it from? Because I knew exactly what I mean. I feel like it's like from the Flintstones or something. It's like a super dated. It's definitely a pop culture reference that I knew what he meant. I keep getting to Google that. It's like the head of the Elks Lodge or something like that. I suppose if you don't know what it is, it might come across as an insult.

Like, what did you just call me? I'm a what? No, he meant. Well, it's a good thing. All right. Then it came with a crown. So I'll go. You got a crown.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, good. We have to make this happen now, I guess. Yeah. I mean, look. I know. I'll find it.

I'll figure out what it is, then I'll wear it. But I also just wanted to say, you know, when we come together like this, it may seem, and it is a big party, it's really fun. Yeah. But if you really step back and you think about, you know, why is it so important, you know, why should I spend a Friday night or why should I donate? Why should I go on to the, there's a silent auction with some really great and incredible packages. I know even our practice is donating neurofeedback sessions. Wow. You know, a package of neurofeedback sessions. But it's also, I think, so critical to really think about what it actually means. So like if you have, if you step out, zoom out, and maybe

think about the process of what it would mean for, for parents, they have a child who is diagnosed with a disability, a severe disability or something incredibly medically complex. They may not know if their child will survive. They may not know what at all this means in the, like, will they be able to keep their job? How will they take care of their other children? You know, I have two women in my practice who are David's Refuge moms, both with very different children who have different types of disabilities, but they are both incredibly powerful, strong, confident women who manage all of these things in their families. Not to mention the fact, like, they will never, you know, one, I was like, oh my gosh, you must be so excited, you're going to be empty nester. She's like, I will never be an

empty nester, Melissa. And I'm like, oh, gosh, right. That's right. The other one is like, you know, this is my life. And I am so happy that this is my life. But before I got to this point, I had to think about, you know, how was I going to make all of these different pieces work with her daughter being in the hospital all the time, you know, days on end in the ICU. And I mean, she'll call me. And she's like, all right, I'm working from the hospital today. Like, are you sure? Is that okay with you, she's like, yep, this is what we do. And it helps to keep my, you know, I want to be distracted. This is how I cope. And then when she gets out, it's like she and they, she has another child. Like how, how all of these pieces work together. They're separate parents. You know, one is in the hospital,

one is at home, keeping their jobs, keeping all of these balls afloat. So if there's anything we can do to support them, to show up to say, hey, you're not alone. We see you. We see the incredible things that you're doing for your family and we've got you. This, I mean, I don't know if there's a God, that's a different discussion. But if there is, I mean, I feel like that's what you guys are doing. And I'm not exaggerating because as I've talked about on the show openly before, you know, I lost my brother to leukemia when he was three. I was like five or six.

And that was a huge traumatic event for not only me, but my family. And now that I'm a dad and an adult, I almost found this like newfound respect for my parents because I'm like, how the hell did you go through that? And there was no David's refuge back, right? You know, there wasn't a lot of that. You know, we went. So much for mental health back then. Exactly.

And, you know, they put me in a little bit of counseling that I barely remember. And we had the Ronald McDonald House, which was fantastic shout out to them. But what you guys are doing is so important for the obvious reasons. But see, what we're not thinking about is what you just said, which is, yeah, there's the whole mourning part of it, right? You're mourning about the loss or the sickness of a child and the uncertainty. but on top of it, what about the day to day? How do I manage my career? How do I take care of my other children and how do I take care of myself?

Regular life. Yeah. It's so huge. And then your marriage. Your marriage, right. Like legal things, financial things, educational things. Everything. So, I mean, I'm so honored to be the chair with my, alongside my husband, Jeff.

But we are a small, you know, representation of all of the incredible supports that David's refuge has put together to really support the families. We've got nutritionists, legal consults, educational consults, holistic medical people, you know, we've got a sound healer. Like so many, like whatever the families of David's Refuge needs, they have resources for because they've recognized they can't do it all themselves. But what they can do is create all of these ripple effects of people in this community. And the more we come together and really show them that we've got not just the families, but them, the better off, you know, Yeah. And that furthers my point, I said the other day, which is, you know, with all the divisiveness in this world, especially this country, people need people. That's right.

People need people and we always will. And you guys are a shining example of that. To help other people, you can't even do it on your own. You have a whole army of people. We all need each other. And we can't lose sight of that, you know? Diane, can you tell us folks that want to attend the event or if they can't, they just want to support the organization. What's the best way to do that?

Our website is great. It's david's refuge.org. Right now we have a pop-up. So if you visit our website, it'll go right to the taste of David's Refuge page. And you could purchase tickets or sponsorships there. If you X out of that little box, you can go and see what are all the services we offer.

You can find the caregiver application there. So it's really a one-stop shop. But of course, you could reach out to us, you know, phone or email as well. I'm happy to share. the contact and they could reach out to us. And then we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, but you've got a couple other major fundraisers throughout the year

that folks couldn't think about too, right? We do. This weekend, actually, will be at Taste of Syracuse. Awesome. So we're really excited about that. They could visit us at the Tops or Vision's Federal Credit Union. Gotcha. And then the 21st, we're having an event at Milton Cat.

It's a first of its kind, a touch-a-truck fundraiser. That's cool. Yes. So it's completely open and accessible to families free of charge. So if you'd like to, if you have a young one or if you're an adult like me, that just likes big trucks. You can come check them out. They're cool.

I don't care what anybody says. I take my son to an event down near the Binghamton area every year truck day. And you get to like, they just line all these, you know, bucket trucks, fire. You get in and you hit the sirens. What a great event. And I have more fun than my son does. And he's six. It's great.

And then if you like to golf. Yeah. June 29th and 30th. It's a Sunday, Monday. We are partnered with the NFL alumni association's upstate New York chapter. Wow. This is their second annual golf tournament. And David's Refuge will be one of the charities that is a recipient of the funds race.

That's pretty cool. Matt, you can break in your six bags of golf clubs. That's a difference. I'm not ready yet. That's phenomenal. I don't know if this is a weird question, but I think it's important. So let's say someone's listening right now or watching,

and they're very intrigued by David's Refuge. I don't want to say who qualifies, but if someone was curious about David's Refuge, what is your clientele? Who is your clientele generally? So if you're a caregiver of a child with special needs or life-threatening medical conditions and you live in the state of New York, you qualify.

Awesome. We do not have any limitations on age, and it could also be like a family member It doesn't necessarily have to be a parent. As long as you are the caregiver, you qualify. So you can go on our website, though. There's a little bit more information about a few little specifics. So if you're interested, you could find out there.

That is awesome. And then before we get out of here, Dr. Melissa, can you just take a couple minutes and tell us just a little bit more about your practice, what you do for not David's Refuge? And are you accepting patients and things of that nature? Yeah, absolutely. So similar to David's Refuge, we work with people throughout New York States where our license limits us to that. Gotcha.

And we have an incredible team of 10, soon to be 14. You know, we're growing fat. Awesome. So one of the interesting things, like I didn't intend ever to really have a group practice, but the need of the community, the way that we're doing things is to really listen. And that's the response of the community. They just want more. And so, you know, one of the things that we do is to partner. like David's Refuge, we partner with school districts, we partner with private companies, we

partner with we've got a partnership with upstate, lots of different ways to make it more accessible. So, you know, companies are doing subsidized counseling and we use a multi-tiered systems of support model so that we do wellness and outreach programming combined with small group, processing, crisis response, small groups, you know, focus groups to, like, for example, one of my personal favorite things is to do like family counseling with companies. Okay. You know, and executive teams. Really?

You think about it. That's wild. We're family here. How many times do you hear that? Yeah. Okay, there is a lot of dysfunction in a lot of families and in a lot of companies, especially when you think about, you know, as long as the parents are getting along, then they can model things for the kids.

This is brilliant. Thank you. No, I mean, like, that's really cut. No, you are the grand pooh, but no, that is brilliant. I've never thought of that concept of taking the model of family therapy and applying it to the workplace. Because every day. You see it all the time. I hate my boss.

I hate this coworker, right? You know. Our co-owners, co-founders. So that's more of what I do. And the bread and butter of the practice is really, you know, anybody who calls. You know, so it's we see, I mean, I couldn't tell you the numbers off the top of my head. We've grown real fast. And so we've got two locations on the east side of town, you know, Manlius and Fayetteville.

We do virtual thrills. all of New York State. Oh, well. So, you know. What percentage kind of comes in versus the virtual? Most people want to be in person at this point. And so that's one of the things is that it's, I think, post-COVID world, it's a different energy.

Different demographics are different, though. Like our college students, for example, they, you know, they may be two blocks away and they don't want to come in. Or are David's refuge families? They can't get out of the house necessarily. Sure. So there's an accessibility issue. Again, like I'm just trying to meet it on all fronts.

But yeah, it's really with the executive stuff, I mean, that's actually like sort of a side step business for me. But I go in, you know, and I go into the companies and I do a lot of more intensive trainings. It's like I'll come to your house. Just from a business standpoint. Right, right. Like that sounds like absolute gold. It really is. You got something going there.

That's for sure. But again, it's fine in the gaps. Right. Wait a second. I could help here maybe. I'll try. I don't know, but I'll try. I love this.

You got a doctor and an entrepreneur in one person. It's crazy. That's the recipe for success. I'm telling you that. I have like one or two more questions, if that's all right. I wanted to, I just thought for those listening. Don't your quota. I know.

For those listening or watching, I think this is important to ask to, both of you, if you'd like to answer, is what do you think one of the biggest misconceptions about mental health and therapy is, other than, you know, the macho guys that are like, oh, can't talk about my, we know that that's a miss. Is there anything that you can think of that's another misconception that you, you know, you could maybe dispel. I would say to me, one of the biggest ones that keeps coming up lately for me, which just rings loud, is that insight alone doesn't heal people.

Excellent. So, like, you can talk about things. You can read things. You can go to therapy with somebody who's going to help you really understand your issues or you can even, you know, retell your story. But therapy at this point, and a lot of it is due to, you know, enhanced brain imaging. and we now know more about how the brain works, but it's a lot more about implicit memory

and what we hold on to energetically from our traumas that we all have. I'd say that would be number two, is that everyone has a certain element of trauma that they hold on to. And it could be as simple as like a comment that you just remember that somebody made to you that just echoes in your head

and it kind of creates like this anchor point for you. And the more you recognize and sort of tease that apart and have that therapeutic relationship where you can feel safe enough to resolve it and that therapist knows how to do that energetic work where they really are healing. And it's a different kind of therapy.

That's awesome. That's a great answer. Yeah. Perfect. I mean, those are great examples. There's a lot of misconceptions out there and that's part of the, you know, my mission as like, you know,

we have more people involved in mental health on here is to kind of get rid of those. You know, if we can help one person listening or watching, you know, that's a success. And what you guys do is amazing. Now, the last question I have is that there are a lot of different. So back in the day, it was like talk therapy. Now, if you research, there's cognitive behavioral therapy. That's the most common, CBT.

EMDR, which you and I talked about off the air. What are some of the newer things that you guys are seeing or experiencing that are out there? And, yeah, what do you think about those? Do folks get a glossary when they come in just to decode everything? There should be. Well, so I think a lot of a lot of therapists now do an integrated model. So it's not a one size, but it's all approach. Yeah.

And you may have therapists who specialize in a certain modality. So I'm like a big internal family systems advocate. And that is, you know, it's parts work. It's saying like a part of me wants to get better, but a part of me doesn't. And it's this idea that all of the. that is protective. And so it's understanding what your parts are and then what wounds they are really trying to protect you from feeling.

Yeah. So it's that, but it's all integrative. So like you said, cognitive behavioral therapy, one of the reasons that that has become the most popular is because it was manualized. So they could research it. Sure. So it's hard to really know what is the most effective ingredient in therapy. Again, it comes back to the relationship.

I think they've been able to figure that out. But like modalities as far as like brain rewiring or like EMDR, a lot of the somatic approaches now because it does shift the energy are what is being found to be the most effective with healing. Because without, again, just doing the insight oriented, it doesn't change long term. You still hold this like, you know, the pit in your stomach. Right? Or like that dread that you sense. And it may come out of the blue. Grief is a good example of that.

It just stays until you can really truly resolve and heal it. So neurofeedback I mentioned is technologically assisted therapy. So the easiest way to describe it is that it's physical therapy for your brain. Wow. I just did this light therapy thing the other night on this app, which I don't recommend because you don't, you know, I don't recommend just downloading apps and trust, you know, but I read the reviews and I did this light therapy. and it was one of the most, from my phone with the flashlight, the way they have it vibrating and doing,

and I went through this entire journey before I went to bed with headphones on, and it was one of the most incredible experiences I've ever, and I text my sister who's a therapist, and I said, I know this is weird because it's an app, but I think it's really doing something. And so that's what inspired me to ask a question of, you know, there seems to be a lot out there. And how do you stay up on that?

You guys, you go to conferences and things like that, because I feel like it's evolving a lot. Just got back from a sixth stage, trauma research foundation conference in Boston. Wow. That sounds exciting. Yeah, it was. Fromatic.

I know what they called it Trauma con. Wow. All right. That's a great name. Yeah, that was pretty great. That's awesome. Again, to your point, we get, I get excited about this stuff. It's very passionate.

It's, you know, we had, it was incredible. Well, because when you're going through something, you know, I can speak from experience. When you are going through something traumatic and you can't control your feelings or your emotions, or you're scared, you feel like you're dying, whatever you're going through, you, any beacon of hope that you can grab onto feels like the greatest win, you know?

So when you come on and talk about what you guys are doing, maybe someone's listening and they feel that. I think that's why you're so passionate about it because it is really a lifelong journey of getting better and figuring it out and just feeling good. And so you give people hope when you talk about that. And I love it. And I thank you so much.

I think having hope is one of the things that every single human needs. Yes. It's because when you lose hope, you feel alone, right? And so one of, from my experience, and this one is so general, but it was just coming to me. And I think one of the biggest misconceptions about counseling is that it's for someone else. So when you have that idea that it's, it's not for me. You know, I don't need this. I can just get through it on my own.

I think every single human experiences with fear, anxiety, trauma. Sure. Couldn't agree more. One of those things hits, right? And it's not a matter of if it's going to hit, it's when. Yeah. And when you get to a point where you feel alone because you can't talk about it or you don't think someone understands, even if it's just your spouse, you know,

Maybe you just don't have time to talk about it. But it's that when you feel alone, that's your darkest moment. Absolutely. So knowing that there are people to support you, you know, these resources exist and you can get them, you know? Just even talking to someone that you can trust is just a first step. 100%. And, Diana, you're so right because it's like when someone's like, ah, therapy's not for me, I would never, you know, make someone feel bad for that.

I'd keep my mouth up, but I'm thinking, that's like, saying, eh, I'm not into showers. You know, like, everybody needs a shower at some point, right? Danny. No, I'm kidding. No, but, no. But you know what I mean? It's, it's, and please, I'm not insulting people that don't, that aren't comfortable

with therapy, and that's fine. People that don't shower? Well, that too. But don't, you know, don't say that it's not for you. And, you know, maybe, maybe you're choosing not to go and that's okay, but everybody can benefit from therapy. And, and, and it's just a matter of some people feel these things more than others. You know, some might feel fear and despair

and a little bit bigger and harder than somebody else. But like you said, someone else is going to feel that same thing, even if it's just a little bit. So I think everybody should go to therapy. Everybody should go. Is that your position? It really is. It was unclear.

No, it is. Everybody should go to therapy. We'd all be better off. Like, I joke, I'm like, I'm a lifer. Yeah, I'll go forever. Me too. It doesn't mean that I need to. There are different times in my life when I've needed to.

but I just think that what I get out of it it always is validating. I'm like, oh, shoot, I did need to come today. That's awesome. And if you spend five minutes on Facebook, you realize everybody needs there. We all need to go to therapy. And I think it's just about being open to it even,

like being curious about yourself. That's a big thing. Everybody wants to learn, right? So it's just a learning experience. It's like, why am I feeling this way? And then you might talk to someone and then understand, oh my gosh, that's where that came from. Yep. Yeah.

That's something, I wasn't even thinking about it. That's the hook. It's like unlocking a key, a door, you know? I'll never forget those moments in therapy. And it might be between days, between weeks, between months, but there's that, oh, shit, oh, my God, moment that you have where you realize something about yourself or you resolve an issue. And that's the beauty of therapy.

You guys give the tools, and it's up to us to use those tools out in the real world. But there is a lot that can be, you know, done in office, The breakthroughs do happen, and it's just, it's awesome. Yeah. Ladies, this has been incredible. This has. We're really, really excited for the event coming up, the Taste event. My wife and I will be there.

We're very excited about that. Growth Mode Tech is a sponsor of that, and we've been a big supporter at David's Refuge for a long time, and we'll continue to be for all the reasons that we've talked about here. So anytime the door is open to either one of you and the entire organization, wants to talk about anything you got going on because it's fun stuff too, you know? And that's what we do here at Good News, York, is share that good news.

And it's, you know, it can be a little sad of the position that folks are in, but I think the other side is, you know, folks helping them is the best story. So we're really happy to have you. Thank you. Thanks for being such advocates for it. Of course.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And one more time, if you guys want to give out any websites or event dates, please go. Yeah. Let's make sure we plug those one more time. So Taste of David's Refuge is June 13th. It's a Friday from 530 to 9. So we wrap up right after sunset. You can find tickets on our

website at david's refuge.org. And we'd love to have you there. Awesome. That's great. And we are CNY Mental Health Counseling, so our website c-N-Y-M-H-C.com, or you can find me at Dr. Melissa Carman.com. It's C-R-M-A-N. Nice. Awesome. Thank you. I love it. Ladies, thank you again for joining us. Yeah. We really, really appreciate it. And we will see you at the event here. Yeah. And we'll be back. Good News York, sponsored by Ads on the Go. Ads on the Go. Get Ads on the Go.com. That's it.