Gooday Gaming Guests - SEGA Saturn and the Final Dreamcast

Episode Date: December 31, 2024

Both are Super Fun and Completely Different.

Alright, so I decided to do another afternoon podcast. I want to finish up on Sega Boots. So, Sega Systems, I did all the Segas yesterday, but I forgot a really fun one, Sega Saturn. So we'll talk about Sega Saturn for a little while, and then I'll try to think if I missed any other Sega. I did Nomad. I did Game Gear. The CDX, really fun. The JVC-XI.

I did the Sega CDs. Sega Saturn is the only one I haven't done. So let me ask about that. So I'm on the chat GPT. And I just got done all my work for the day. For some reason I can't do the chat anymore. I'll have to go to a different one.

I guess you get to a certain point where it just kind of stops. We'll have to go over here where I was doing this other one. Oh yeah, so I was out and about today for New Year's Eve and there's just people everywhere. Flying around, stores packed. So I'm in for the day now, thank goodness.

So I want to do Sega Saturn boot process. The only reason I'm doing boot process is just to get a better understanding of how they work. And then I started another little series with my ELO and Greenback Road.

ELO is short for electricity because as we've learned all this stuff is just a manipulation of electricity to make things work. So I need to learn how that's actually I want to learn each system's motherboard at least the early ones that are not as complicated. And how Elo, the electricity, that's his name, goes down the green brick road from one component to another and how he changes. I did it once already with Magnavox. It came out pretty cool.

I made a little story out of it. So let's look at Sega Saturn. Sega Saturn was a 32-bit home console known for its advanced advanced hardware and reliance on optical media CDs. The boot process involves initializing the system's hardware verifying disks loading games. There's four different ones inside these and technically there's two a model 1 and a model 2. the model ones had the power supply on the top cover but there was two versions of that uh one is a different connector than the

other and then the other model two which is technically three and four has a four pin power supply on the motherboard or five pin power supply on the motherboard. And then from there you have black which is US. You have the ugly green which was the original ones most of them. And then you also had the tan which is Japan. So green was Japan, tan was Japan. So let's see what we got going on there. So when the console powers on, the SH-2 CPU, it's dual Hitachi H2 processors.

Interesting. So you learned something already. Initializers as the main processors. It's got two processors. Sega Saturn is fun. lots of fun games. But the better games are in Japan. Japan versions. Or just to be able to tell those, like, Deep Fear,

Enemy Zero, D, oh, and what's the other two? I have the other two. I got those listed for sale. Dark Seed 1, Darkseed 2, which is kind of like a King's Quest kind of game. Darkseed.

Those are really expensive. All right, so we have a dual processor, system control, SCU, and other processors like the SH-1 for CD control initialize. I still have lots of Sega Saturns and I have only sold power supplies and some of the, lots of parts off the top cover. So I haven't really sold any motherboards and usually disk drive is the issue so I don't sell a lot of those. Alright so there is a BIOS, Saturn has a BIOS

stored in ROM. It's loaded into memory and executed. Memory check verifies 2 megabytes of RAM. That's so funny. Memory areas of VRAM and sound RAM peripheral check detects connected controllers expansion RAM card or other peripherals disk drive initialization initializes a CD block subsystem and spins the disk drive disk drive detection and verification. The BIOS checks to make sure it's the correct game. So I have a region free cartridge. So the Sega set also has a cartridge. So you put the region free cartridge in and then you can take it to Japan and play US and then vice versa. So even though this is region locked,

region lockout and copyright. For regional compatibilities, Sagan has a hardware-based copy protection system that relies on physical data in the disk's let-in area, which is difficult to replicate. So on the disk's let-in area, which is difficult to replicate. So on the disk itself, there's this area that it has to read. If it doesn't see it, then it doesn't play it.

Makes sense. Game code execution. It's a valid game disk. It's detected. Game code loads. BIOS loads the game's execution code from the disc. So you remember the code is always on the bottom of the disc, which is basically part of the label on top. That's where the code is, so it spins, it reads code, basically.

The game's initialization routines configure the VDP, sprites and polygons. Sprites we've determined are little teeny characters that create bigger characters, or little explosions or stuff like that. VDP2, background layers. And then it does the sound hardware. Execution handoff, controls handoff to the game is executable, bypassing further

BIOS involvement. So now it's all about the game. Once the game starts, graphic renders 2D, 3D graphics. 3D graphics are actually pretty good on Sega Saturn. I think, I believe Sega Saturn, oh I forgot about Sega Genesis. Did I do Genesis? Oh so we'll do Sega Saturn oh I forgot about Sega Genesis that do you also do Sega Saturn and we'll do Sega Genesis as my little boot up today because I believe this one before Genesis I'm sorry Sega Saturn Sega Dreamcast I've almost forgot about Sega Dreamcast so many se. They're all fun. They're all different. Key hardware components during dual Hitachi H-2 CPUs running

at 28.6 MHz. That's pretty cool. Then there's an SH-1 dedicated. Another CPU. So three CPUs. The SH-1 is dedicated to the CD-ROM process. Handle sprites. Then you got a video display processor 1 and 2. Sound processor. The SH-1 is dedicated to the CD ROM process.

Handles sprites, then you got a video display processor 1 and 2, sound processor, CD block ROM controller, BIOS features, built-in memory manager, CD player for audio, error, lockout message. error lockout message troubleshooting sound TV disk disk game fails to load choose a disk drive I haven't really gone into trying to get any of those working I've got a lot of them I bought a whole bunch of Sega Saturn's had to been four or five years ago now a A big giant lot from Japan when things were really much cheaper. And I've been picking off those things ever since. Things always keep giving back. So there's an optical drive emulator. OEDs, device like the Mode or the phobe phoebe replace the CD-rom with a SD card in or US storage enable

gaming modern storage so I have a back USB plug-in thing that I've never gotten into so let's go so what are the four there are four other board types in the Saturn form other types in Saturn Saturn. Let's see. Yes, there are four motherboard types. The VAO at launch includes five printed circuit boards, making it more complex and expensive to produce. Uses an external shielded power supply. An external? Huh.

I don't think I've ever seen a VAO. VAO. Requires a cartridge slot for saved RAM expansion. So yeah, you can use the cartridge slot for save RAM expansion so yeah you can use the cartridge slot to save RAM or use it as a region free thing VA1 first streamlined version two main PCBs still reliable released as NTSC and PAL. It's not really saying the kind of boards I was meaning. I'm going by the power supply. Again, two on the top of the cover, technically model one. Japanese white Saturns, although mine are all beige now. So VA2 had the white Saturn. Let's see, VA2, which are either 4 pin or 5 pin usually.

Late run North America was Black Saturn. So Black Saturn was the VA2. And then from there it went to VA5. Late PAL and NTSCJ Japan's low-cost consumption components. Final PAL and Saturn's. Design complexity, early versions of VA1, VA0, VA1 are more modular and complex. Later versions VA2 and VA5 consolidated components. So there's some motherboards where the front port is attached and I think that's the newer one and then there's some where the another motherboard the the ports on front separate board and then the other ones is just part of the board. The drive mechanism progressive nice so cd roms were a little bit better there's a whole bunch of different cd-roms in the sega saturn

it's got to be at least four there's at least four so there's four different motherboards and then therefore there's four different drives some should be better than the others although none of them have work multiple motherboard reversion revisions again everything we see is for cost-effective for the model looking for Sega Saturn look for model MK Japan uses similar VA1. Okay. So now, let's go to Sega Dreamcast. Oh, cool. This will give me a... I believe this ends my Sega run.

And then remember, the Sega Dreamcast has three main version VA0, VA2, and VA1, VA1 being the most popular. VA0 was 5 volts, 3.3 volts, and then VA2 was the cheaper one. Alright, so we'll look at that one second. I gotta go do something. Hold on one second.

Alright, so let's see the boot process of Sega Dreamcast. It should be a little bit better. I have yet to finish my Sega Dreamcast mod. I have a few different versions of it. Let's verify where we are. Alright, here we go. So the Sega Dreamcast boot process is a sequence of steps that initializes the hardware, verifies the game, starts the software dreamcast was sega's last

home console cool so i did it i did it in chronicle order uh i started with genesis a couple podcasts ago went through the other ones a second podcast and now we're at the end so this actually worked out it's powered by an Hitachi sh4 CPU and Windows CE based software libraries I don't know how long Windows CE was out for powers on with these Hitachi sh4 CPU has a power VR 2 GPU and it has a Yamaha AICA sound processor. These usually don't have no video. With the same Sega Dreamcast, the front ports can cause all kinds of weird power issues. So you always want to change the components on the front ports. They need to be replaced.

So weird power issues, not necessarily the power supply sometimes the the disk drive there can be an issue causing weird power issues maple bus controller initializes handling peripherals or controllers and then these have the virtual memory units. System RAM was 16 megabytes VRAM was 8 megabytes. Audio RAM was 2. BIOS execution has a BIOS, performs memory check, verifies the integrity of the RAM VRAM. Portfolio check detects controllers virtual memory cards. Initializes the GDROM. They call it a GDROM. I forget what it's called. Display the icon swirling animation. So another thing is about if you don't have a GD-ROM on it, I don't think you get a screen. Another thing is if there's no fan connected, you won't get a screen.

And then the VA0 motherboard has a heat sink pipeline and 5 volts and the 5 volt of the VA0 and VA1 3.3 volt GD ROMs are identical if you swap them by accident you'll get all kinds of issues it says spins the disk reads IP bin header which contains essential data and then the bio checks for region lock to create a console for Japan United States or PAL media determine whether the disk is a by Dreamcast a part copyrighted verifies by the do that same boot sector checks the disk let's see a game and system function selection. The bioslows of the game executable file often first underscore read dot bin from the disk to the RAM. Controls handed over to the game. If audio is detected, the CD player will play.

No valid disk, it's managed by the VMU saves. Game initialization. Game code loading. Power configures the VR2 GPU for rendering and the AICA for sound with a Maple bus for peripherals. So the Hitachi SH-4 CPU is running at 200 megahertz handling all system and logic. Handles 2D 3 3D rendering. Provides 64 audio channels and dedicated ARM processor for sound tasks. So significantly better than the Sega Saturn. But the Sega Saturn was really Still using two dual processors instead of this one having one for. It says about the GD-ROM, region free allows modifications you can make it region free.

The optical drive emulator which I have and also the one you plug in the back too. I haven't finished one finished either one of those. I have three discs and each one has a library of games on it that I found somewhere. The DreamCat supports home games and applications especially with the MIL-CD compatibility on earlier models. on early mouths so the difference so Final VA2 difference. Differ. So we'll finish that up on those different motherboards.

I kind of know that maybe I'll find something new that I didn't know. We'll see. Let's see if we can find something new. Again, the main components are going to be the three volts. Here's a breakdown of VA0, VA1, VA3. So the GD-ROM used the Yamaha drive. So the 5 volt was only the Yamaha. I thought they had Samsung. Prentiflows was higher heat generation to power supply.

And as far as I know they were the same, but there must be different ones. Featured a socketed SH4 which is unique to this version. Socketed? I've never seen a socketed CPU. Really designs as a complex layout and higher production costs. The MIL-CD compatibility fully supported MIDC so it looks like a Fortuna enabling easy boot from pirated games without hardware mods. So if you have a VA0 it's easier to boot but we don't really have pirated games anymore. It's just jump right over to the USB or the SD card kind of thing as a mod.

But in the early days I guess you could make copies of games and play them on the VA0. So the VA1 streamlined revision, this is the most popular one, simplified the motherboard, a direct solder to the board reducing costs to the CPU. I've never seen, I'm gonna have to re-look at my VA0 boards, I don't remember a socket, actually I know I've never seen a socket because I would have taken the chip out and sold it. I've had Dreamcast 5-600 of them probably maybe more. I had a lot of them over the years. Upgraded the CD-ROM GD-ROM to better reliability of the newer Yamaha controller. Drives are generally quieter, more efficient. They make noise when they go back and forth. However, some sub versions of VA start

to limit the execution of artificial software to combat privacy cooling system improved power supply never really seen a difference still more expensive to produce than the final version the V8 II final GD-ROM stricter measures with MIL compatibility, so homebrew and pirate games no longer supported. Some of the V8-2 functions were disabled, making them less desirable for enthusiasts. Motherboard design was reduced, cost, the GD ROM was plastic so that was significantly changed and had cables running through it as opposed to the metal ones for the VA 0 and VA 1. Small heat sink due to the lower thermal output of the streamline components quieter fan operation. Lower production costs, improved reliability, lighter and smaller overall thermal footprint.

Limited and no support of the MILCD. Some users reported lower compatibility with third-party peripherals. All right so that gives me a comparison. It doesn't show the Samsung drive. So it's got a little graph here of VA0, VA1, VA2. So the GD-ROM is saying just a different version of the Yamaha but in detail it's 5.0 Yamaha and then for the VA1 it's Yamaha or Samsung actually there's more Samsung but it's 3.3 volts it's marked right on there and then the final one the the VA-2, are plastic. And I guess those are Yamaha. But I thought some of those were Samsung as well. The compatibility, fully supported for the MIL-CD.

Supported for VA-1. Disabled in most units. Motherboard was designed, it's saying it's socketed. SH-4. Simplified soldered sh-4 integrated on the VA2 cooling systems they had a large heat pipe large heats the heat sinks medium heat sinks smallest heat sinks so the top plate is actually the heat sink for the VA1 and VA2. Power says the power supply was different.

I never really noticed which version is best. Collectors like the VA0. VA1 is the most all-around. VA2, most reliable and cost-effective. Field of Dream Confession. You can check out motherboard visible. I've never seen that. I've never seen a socket CPU on a VA0. I've never seen one.

Maybe it's a PAL version or something. You're absolutely correct. No, there we go. I was going to say, I know I've never seen one. You're absolutely correct. No Sega Dreamcast motherboard, including the VO, features a socketed CPU. Yeah, that's obviously my guess. I would love to find one if I could. The Hitachi SH-4 CPU and power are always soldered directly.

Alright, I clarified that. The launch model, both are soldered directly. See, sometimes you have to correct my buddy Zippy here. It's not perfect. It's clocked at 200 megahertz the CPU. It uses a more modular design layout. Yamaha controller. controller why the misunderstanding the it's gonna tell me why I made a mistake sometimes thought to have more modular or servo so components to its higher component count complexity always integrated so and then there was the Samsung 5 volt or 3.3, no Samsung 3.3 volt GD ROM. GD-ROM. GD-ROM. It was a Samsung. I like when it tells me I'm right. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Some Sega games, particularly those from the VA-1 version, use a Samsung manufacturer 3.1, 3.3 volt3 volt drive differs from the early models at 5 volts Samsung 3.3 GD rom operates reduces overall power consumption requirements smaller and simpler design it was basically the same thing that's not really correct it's definitely not quieter Yamaha 5 volt operates so that we're back to the VA zero here more more heat components or a bulky assembling on an early VA production wave. Japan drives were prone for laser motor issues motor noise and issues. So 3.3 5 volts 3.3 Samsung says more reliable but it's actually not. The Yamaha 3.3 is more reliable.

Quieter noise and they both make noise. Compact, they're both the same size. Found in VA1 and VA2, the Samsung 3.3. Although the, so I'm gonna keep correcting my little buddy here for a minute switching the samsung sega move to samsung drives in later va1 va0 okay so let's go to Yamaha 3.3 oh GD ROMs so weird to say it by GD ROMs

so that would have come probably let's see what it says that is let's see if I'm right again yes some Yamaha 3.3D phones, or indeed the later version, differ from the early 5V. You can't swap them, obviously. Producing overall requirements compared to 5V. Smaller designs, they're the same.

They look exactly the same except for the writing on the wall. The 3.3 in the Yamaha had the 5 volt. Why shift to 3.3? Low production cost, improved reliability. How to identify? The symbol of the console located. It's marked right on it um comparison to the samsung slightly lower than the samsung reliability huh

i always thought the yamaha was better uh noise level moderate saying samsung's quieter not sure about that more expensive than samsung yamaha than Samsung, Yamaha. And the final one is plastic VA2 GD-ROM with ribbon cables completely different than the first two yes VA version do you run with plastic construction ribbon cable a distinct shift from the earlier edition this was often referred to as the plastic GD ROM drive reduction reduce further conduction costs I would assume it would have made it quieter much lighter cheaper to reduce ribbon cables for conductivity intensifies internal wiring yeah there's a lot of wires that come off 3.3 volts. Tender V, the Samsung lower output and V8. Noisy operation of plastic built in cross-cutting measures results in slightly noisier operation than the metal one. Lacks the MIL-CD support. Advantages of plastic CD-ROM, GD-ROM rather. Lower cost as usual, lighter weight.

Efficient power energy. Disadvantages, reduced durability, no MIL-CD, no easier operation so if it's looking at the three now va1 v0 plastic gums are metal i already know all that noise consumption is louder so basically all the common things between the three cables and all those ribbon cables that were manufactured detail it was finalist final cut cost cutting efforts and then that was it and they were that's all of Sega here on New Year's Eve and my buddy I'm sitting on the couch

my little buddy's here alright so that's some that finishes up Sega now and we'll go to some we'll upgrade to a different system we're getting into the more technical stuff

so we'll see how Zippy brings it out for me alright so again have a safe New Year and I'll talk to you guys later on alright bye brings it out for me alright again have a safe new year and I'll talk to you guys later on alright bye