Gooday Gaming Guests - SNK Neo-Geo AES/MVS Cartridge and CD Code Boot Process

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

The 2014 Neo Geo X Gold will Always be Known as the Original Nintendo Switch

Alright, so early afternoon, we're going to do Neo Geo as my system. We'll talk about the cartridges. They started out with cartridges. That's SNK Neo Geo. Not popular here in the United States, but really popular overseas, I believe. And then they had CDs. It was a Neo Geo pocket and a color pocket. So all kinds of fun stuff.

So let's see the Neo Geo. The Neo Geo pocket and a color pocket. So all kinds of fun stuff. So let's see the Neo Geo. The Neo Geo console. So the original console was called a AES or MVS. It had a BIOS stored in separate RAM. Lots of fighting games for Neo Geo, which is unfortunately, yuck, my worst kind of games. But there was lots of fighting games for these. Cartridge detection.

The BIOS checked the cartridge for connected cartridge. It used a PROM. Program ROM. Containing the game's code and instructions. And then a CROM. Character ROM. Stores the graphics such as sprites. And we've already talked about sprites

those are little dots that you can make little explosions out of or you combine little dots together to make some sort of a character back then sprites. It's very relevant in all this early gaming stuff until you get to the

enhanced 2D graphics and then the 3D graphics. But I think Sprite is still used. It's a word I never even knew about until I started doing this. Additional ROMs in the cartridge may include an SROM, stores text data, VROM, contains audio samples or MROM, holds the sound program.

If no cartridge is detected, it says insert a cartridge. ROM mapping. The BIOS maps the cartridge ROM into the system memory space. The NeoGeo uses memory mapped I.O. meaning the cartridge ROMs are accessed if they are part of the system's memory. So if it's needed, it's there. Check some verification. It shows the data is not corrupt. Region check. Again, we're still on cartridge and the original ones. I never had a cartridge on Neo Geo.

I've had a couple of the other ones. We'll go to those in a minute. The BIOS determines the region, Japanese or Europe. I don't think these were U.S. at all. Some cartridges include regional specific data. BIOS was checked for such as memory cards, controller inputs. The BIOS transfers

control to the PROM of the cartridge. The cartridge program code executes so inside of the it was a 68, cpu in the original neo geos the uh you see that one the 6800 and many of the earlier systems i can't remember which which ones i'll have to ask them which ones have 6800 i've seen it many times going through different systems. It has a custom video processor.

Audio data from the VROM and MROM is processed through the Z80. So Z80's CPU was very common back then. And the YM26, the Yamaha YM2610 sound chip was also very common in all those early era cartridge systems of all that we've gone through pretty much. I'll ask about that later if I remember. Copy protection. Cartridges include copy protection. Multi-slot system. So there was one that had MVS,

the arcade multi-slot setups. These are real, really expensive. Let's look at this. Let's cross-reference eBay for a second. So we'll go to a Neo Geo slot I know I never bought one or found one because it was so they were out of my price range I can do a few hundred dollars but not a oh I sold something pretty cool sweet multi crud oh there's that jama that's jama thing customize $800 for our MV system and a lot of these are so yeah so look at so that's don't see any really one so I'm gonna do something first I got an order in so look at, so that's, I don't see any really ones. So I'm going to do something first.

I've got an order in, so we're going to do that in a second. And then we'll go back to Neo Geo process. Would you like specific processes on how the 6800 interacts with the BIOS? So no, we're going to go right on to the cd next all right so i'm doing an auto rate this second but once i get done we'll go back to this process so i'm going to pause this for a minute so let's go into neo geo cds now so let's go to the neo neo geo cd uh code boot process so after the cartridges I think they said it was the

multi-slot system the NVS and the AES what was the other one called the AES so the multi-slot system and then there was the AES those are cartridge based then we go to the front loader

and the top loader for the CD let's see where that starts the CD boot process differs significantly from the AES and MVS because it relies on the CD based

I had both front loader and a top loader I actually still had both front loader and a top loader I actually still have a front loader motherboard bottom half left I sold the CD part boot on process so there's BIOS

includes performing quick self check for the hardware and this isn't one of those systems where it had the cartridge. It also had a cartridge slot. It didn't. It was just CD. So once they left the cartridge base, they went right to a CD.

And there was no sort of like the Sega CD you can add onto a Genesis. Well, actually, you add the Genesis onto the Sega CD. There wasn't anything like that with this. But there is something else after this uh prepares the prepare the system with the cpu drive initialized check for verification verifying the disk format neo g i use a specific structure recognized by the system

every system with a cd has some sort of either the disk has a wobble groove or some other kind of identification groove. I think Xbox. Is it Xbox that sends out a question and the CD has to answer it correctly? Or something like that. Something really weird in order to verify it. So it's pretty cool how every place does it. Although I say and I always say that all these places, all these companies, they should have just not even dealt with trying to lock these because everyone was always going to unlock them anyway.

Save all that money. So the BIOS looks for CDs determined if it's a valid game. Game.bin contains extrabutil code. Sprite.rom. Of course, we keep talking about sprites they're everywhere in this early stuff fix.rom

holds data PCM.rom contains raw audio like sound effects and then the Z80.rom contains the

sound program so the Z80 processor is not only used as CPU but it's also a sound processor I don't know if

it's a different chip or the same chip doing different things game loading goes through the game bid comm into the work Ram has some sort of a work Ram and see I just kind of breeze through it I don't really shut to read everything just to give you a quick up to how it goes. Neo Geo is slightly faster than the CDZ model. I didn't know there was a CDZ model. What is that CDZ model? I'm just going to ask what that is. I didn't know there was a Neo Geo CDZ model.

Let's look it down on eBay. I've never seen that. Neo Geo CDZ. Yep, there is a CDZ console. CDZ console.

CDZ console? I see the disc. Oh, CDZ is just the top loader. Maybe that's the difference. Top. Oh, CDZ is just the top loader. Maybe that's the difference. Top loader is CDZ and the bottom loader, I mean front loader is... I'll have to ask that question in a minute. So the Neo Geo CD is slightly faster than in the CDZ model.

Oh, it's faster in that model. To loading time. Once the RAM is loaded, the game executed. Leading to infamous long loading time. Once the RAM is loaded, the game is executed. Leading to infamous long loading times. It requires frequent loading of the disk, so everything is coming off the disk. If our games are not loaded, they can just be played. It's constantly pulling off the disk. This is also a Motorola 68000.

We've seen that in just about every early system in this era. Again, there's a Z80 CPU and the YM2610 sound chip. So the processor and everything is the same in the cartridge as this CD. So the difference between the BIOS standard NeoGeo CD BIOS versus NeoGeo CDZ BIOS may affect loading times and compatibility. CD is notorious for slow loading times. The NeoGeo CDZ improved

slightly faster loading times. Comparison. The Neo Geo CD generally lacks sophisticated copyright relying on console's ability to read official CD drives. Comparison to the AES

or the MVS cartridge-based counterpart and all data must be loaded into RAM for execution. Whereas the AES and MVS pulled it from the ROM on the cartridge. All right, so now I want to see. We're going to go on to the Neo Geo, Neo Geo pocket,

pocket cartridge, boot code process. I just put boot code process. I don't actually get codes, but kind of just the, I really mean just the. How it goes. The Neo Geo pocket.

And Neo Geo pocket color. Were slightly different than the larger. AES or MVS. So we're going backwards here. This is before the CD. The CPU on that. Is an NEC. V30MX

MZ I'm sorry it had a built in ROM initialized RAM cartridge detected it once it went to the mapping had the same program ROM graphics ROM, sound data checksum

I had one of those Neo Geo pocket collars they were really expensive. After verification, the code initialized to the ROM. They were better than the Game Boy, I thought. But again, they weren't around here in the US. Neo Geo Pocket was a dedicated subsystem

for graphics. It had its own graphics processor hidden in the sprites. Sound processor. Gameplay. Once the game initialized the loops began cartridges specific features so on the cartridge itself it had an ee prom electrically erasable program read-only memory i always think what that means ee prom i see that often in a lot of things so back then it was was EEPROM, electrically-releasable, programmable read-only memory for saved games.

BIOS worked together to read and write the EEPROM during gameplay. Multilink, you could link it to others. Region-free compatibility. Region-free long cartridges of any region to run. They all should have been. It would have made much more sense

bios initialization cartridge detection rom map rom mapping checksum a region language check so everything was basically through the cartridge exactly like the other early cartridge system so let's go on to the neo geo x gold so what that is is the original switch so way before switch came out i think neo geo uh x it's a hybrid you you have a dock open the dock up and you have a handheld you put the handheld in the dock and then you play the games on the dock does that sound familiar yeah sounds just like nintendo switch but this was way before well not way before 2014 i think the neo geodex gold came out so so i think they just copied them you know so neo geodex gold uh so that would have been

it's all internal memory now. There is no cartridge. However, there is a cartridge for the handheld that you dock on the side and you can mod them because I've done it. You need a special mod jumper thingy and some other stuff and then you can do it.

And it'll only play, there's one modded card you can get on ebay that just plays other neo geo games besides the one loaded because this is pre-loaded the neo geo x here this isn't a only cartridge you can add is on the handheld itself and it's just like one extra game but you can use a special cartridge mod to add lots of other games and then if you mod the whole the handheld you can put other games like atari and it puts all those kinds of games out as well so neo geo x gold cartridge uh boot process so these are all gonna so all this is again is it's

it it's a dedicated system from games that were already made but it was a more of a modern version but it used that that switch like n Nintendo switch idea but it was out before switch so it was in partnership with Tomo T-O-M-O it's not a traditional console rather a hybrid there it is a hybrid emulator based system

it was by SNK in partnership with Tomo it used different look than the because it relies software emulator because it relies on software emulation. So it's all software emulation. When powered on, the system runs a custom software. I forget how many games, maybe 20 games are on it. And then there's a little handheld Neo Geo 40th Anniversary Neo Geo you can get.

A little arcade handheld thing. That's got some games on it. But most Neo Geo games were fighting. And I'm not a fan. Neo Geo was preparing. A SD card based cartridge. For game delivery. The system checked the SD cartridge. Upon detecting the SD cartridge.

The system. Neo Geo X firmware decrypted the data. Failed to read the. Again most of the games. Were already preloaded so it includes the ROM game files PROM CROM so it's basically all emulation is powered by an emulation engine likely based on existing Neo Geo emulator such as GN Geo or similar software the emulation

initializes the ROM gives you that environment region emulator applies region based includes PAL or NTS systems once the game started the player interacts with the game with the handheld controls

or had a cool arcade stick to it too real big so that whole set the neo geo x not modded is real expensive and then if you get all the mod stuff to it i had i had a few of those you can see those on my youtube channel and i think they're in my uh hidden and unknown uh categories of systems i had a couple of those. I sold them both. Oh, I still have one of the docks left.

I haven't sold that yet. And I sold a handheld that went with that dock that had a bad battery in it. And I couldn't find a battery. It was a soldered-on battery, too. The original Neo Geo hardware executed game code directly from the ROMs. Whereas the Neo Geo X were a game code directly from the ROMs. Whereas Neo Geo X preloaded were already preloaded games so they just instantly play.

Essentially SD cards. Official firmware restrictions. The system to official cartridge but custom firmware can unlock the ROMs. Neo EJ includes a library of pre-installed games that do not

require a cartridge. If it has to be a cartridge, detect the system directly. So you have to put that in the dock. I mean the cartridge has to go in the handheld. When docked, the handheld outputs the game onto the HDMI. Hence a Nintendo Switch. Neo Geo X Gold

uses software emulation. Key difference between that and cartridge in the or ST slots BIOS. So how many games came pre-loaded. Reloaded. I know you could add like another 50 games. If you modded it. Or at least another 20. And then if you were like. Modded it to that next level.

You could add other games. From other systems on it. It would run it. Because it was like a newer system. So therefore it would run all that old emulation. So I had 20 preloaded games on here. I'm not going to list them all. Ones are like Magic and Lord. Metal Slug.

Again, a lot of these were fight ones. Okay. How many... There was cartridge. How many SD games were made? I know of one that came with it. The Ninja one. How many SD games were made. I know of one that came with it. The Ninja one. How many SD games were made?

Four. SD games. That would have been an additional game. That you could put on the side. I don't think there was that many. So that's all about the preloaded. Expansion through the game cards. There was a Mega Pack Value 1.

Oh, okay. Oh, I forgot to do it. Let's see, how many SD games were made? Neo Geo SD-based cards. These games were proctorio SD card encrypted. Let's see. This tells me how many it's made. SD cards were based on the original Neo Geo concept.

Physical look just like an SD card but it's a little bit different though. And you get the an SD card but it's a little bit different though and you get the mod XD card you have to put it flips open and puts you put another SD card inside of that on the original style for this manufacturing process it's pumping a lot of stuff here, but not really. SD card, mass production cards, used standard SD cards. Games available, here we go, on SD cards. Only a few.

15 additional titles. One of the most notable is the Mega Pack, Volume 1, which contained 15 users' modification. All the official...

Unlock the console. Again, you can do the mod. I learned how to do it. It's pretty straightforward, but you need stuff. All right, let's go back to the... The AES... MVS game library,

which would be the original cartridges library let's see what the game library on that is let's see if there's high quality 2D graphics arcade perfect gameplay total was 148 official licensed High quality 2D graphics. Arcade perfect gameplay. Total was 148.

Official licensed. 1990 to 2004. Does not include any of the other ones. Fatal Fury. Again, one of those fighting games. Shooter Ruppers. Blazing Star. Just kind of reading off one or two.

Run and Gun Games, Mega Slug. Cyber Lip, Beat Em Up. Robo Army. Wind Jammers, Sports Games. Puzzle Games, Magic Drop, Puzzle Bobble. Bust a Move. Perform Action Games, Magic Lord. Blue Journey Journey Spin Master

Key franchises for Neo Geo gaming were Fatal Fury King of Fighters Metal Slug Samurai Showdown Exclusive titles Japanese international releases Gunho

Garno I can't say that one High quality Neo Genie Removed for large Details of sprites Difficulty So it's giving me a notable Notable games in the library

They're some of the most notable games Mostly puzzle Fighting Running Gun The Neo Genie Remains iconic they're some of the most notable games mostly puzzle fighting running gun the new means iconic for its metal sludge rare across we'll go with the rare games Google this will probably go a little bit longer today because DOJ's got lots of stuff and try to cut it down as quickly as possible

so Metal Sludge on AES again it's worth $10,000 $20,000 really hold your horses on that one I didn't know that I know there was so many games over let's see what happens

AES I see I've never had an AES system I didn't know that. I know there was so many games. Let's see what happens. AES. I see I've never had an AES system. $4,500. For. Metal Sludge 5. Posters. You can get $300. $400.

Posters. Metal Sludge. $100. $7,000. Metal Sludge X. $7,7,000. Metal Sludge X. $7,499. Well, oh my goodness. There are lots of them in there. $6,000.

Metal Sludge 3. Whoa. $7,000. Of all the ones I've been cross-referencing, these ones are by far the most. Not in a million years have I spent $7,000 on a game. And the games are kind of silly too.

Alright, so you can see where that is. Another one is called the Kusuni Encounter. $12,000 to $15,000. Let's check that one out. The Crusher. I don't think the CDs are nowhere near this much. It's these Neo Geo video games.

$500. $600. $6,000. $500. How did we go from $500 to $6,000? Whoa. $100. $5,000. There's another $ 6,000 dollars whoa 100 dollars 5,000 there's another 6,000

700, 2,000 so really expensive stuff alright so that's kind of some of the what else we got metal slug we just did that one ultimate 3 samurai most people like samurai

ninja masters that's one of the CDs you can get. One of the little cartridges for the X. Blazing Star, shoot them up. Neo Turf Masters. Shock Trooper 2nd Squad. English language AES versions. Key factors. How many

Neo Geo Pocket Games? And then we'll ask about CD2. I'm a big fan of Neo Geo. Again, you can get one of those little mini Neo Geo arcade ones. It's like a little handheld arcade. It's pretty cool. I'm a big fan of Neo Geo. Again, you can get one of those little mini Neo Geo arcade ones. It's like a little handheld arcade.

It's pretty cool. I had one. I traded that one away. About 10 to 12 games were released. In the Neo Geo pocket, however, there was 75 to 77 games released. So if you're going to get Neo Geo, you might as well get the pocket. You might as well get the color.

But those are in a couple hundred dollars. And if you get a game with it and everything it's like three four hundred bucks fighting games action games puzzle games sports RPGs Dark arms, that's the one I had I had gotten dark arms and one that was like an action RPG Rare titles Foscia Rare titles. Fasha. Canceled by North American. Making English version rare. Last Blade. Beyond the Destiny.

Fighting game. Pocket reversal. Backwards compatibility. The Neo Geo Color was backwards compatible with monochrome. Meaning it could play. Enjoy the 10 to 12 games on monochrome. So let's go on to the Neo

Geo CD game library. I don't know how to spell things correctly. I always spell library wrong. It understands what I'm saying. 97 official games. That's it, huh? Wow, I thought there would be a lot more.

For the Neo Geo CDs. So there's many more on the cartridge. Official titles, 1994 to 1999. Library mirrors almost all games being ported. So they're mostly all games from the cartridge library. Cross Swords 2, Ironclad, Samurai Showdown,

Key Entries, King Fighter, Art of Fighting, all that fighting nonsense, Running Gun, Slugs, Shoot'em Ups, Beat'em Ups, Sports Games, Puzzle, RPGs. There wasn't really that many. A feature unique to the CD

was the better sound, enhanced audio. The controls were really cool. I still have one, actually. And due to the single speed drive, many games suffered loading time issues. Rare and collectible ones. Samurai Shodown, Ironclad. loading time issues rare and collectible ones samurai showdown iron clad let's say cross swords two let's see what that one is let's cross reference that one on ebay here cross Crossodge 2 Neo Geo Crossodge 2

$330 This is on CD $150 $300 So between $150 and $300 For Crossodge 2 Let's try this Ironclad Let's try that one

I just do a quick copy and paste over to YouTube. I mean over to eBay here. And plug it in this little search box. Oops, I just did it wrong. Oh, now I did it wrong. I was doing something and I did it backwards.

Once in a while I'll do that. I hit copy again instead of paste. Okay. Let's see what ironclad is. Ooh, $1,200. We went up a notch or two to $1,600. $1,700.

So ironclad, $171. But that's cartridge. And so then Neo Geo. Neo Geo AES. How much are those going for? AES Council. Neo Geo AES Council. Not the gold.

The gold's about $400. But a council. That's a controller stick that original one is that the console junk so there is a console the Neo Geo

looks kind of like the console yes $1000 so it's the same design on it but it doesn't have the actual slot for the cartridge it's a dock you open it up

and you put the handheld in there alright so let's ask is not the the X the actual actual original switch that Nintendo copied so we're going to see

is not the X gold the original switch that Nintendo copied saying it's basically it is the same the whole concept she has the concept similarity to Switch, the original Switch, is a bit stretched. But calling it original Switch, however,

it did it. So, no, because Neo Geo X came out in 2012. It was a hybrid. And Nintendo Switch is exactly the same thing. The only thing different is Nintendo, it runs the

sort of pre-loaded games where Switch obviously you have games you put in it. But the concept did copy, did Nintendo copy the Neo Geo Gold? It's unlikely they need to direct copy. Concept Sega Nomad at handheld.

that's it. So I'm saying... I am saying... The... Hand... Held... Docked... Into... A...

Into... Handheld docked... To play... a handheld docked to play on the TV is exactly the same as Switch. I'm saying the handheld

docked to play on a TV is exactly the same as a Switch. The concept is exactly the same. You're absolutely right. It's a similarity core. It's a hybrid. How is the original Switch? The handheld is docked and you can play the handheld

without the dock. Include a handheld console that could play games on the go. When docked, the system would play on the TV with a controller. Purpose of docking, both for audio video to a larger screen. You also have to charge that through the dock. The OGU, just a switch, does dock. HDMI connector. It had a small HDMI.

It had a special cable. The idea of one-serving portable home computer was a major selling point for Neo Geo X. This concept is the core feature of the Nintendo Switch. Yeah. What Switch did differently is they took it to the next level and they made it into a handheld. Obviously, it wasn't really good,

but it's still the same thing. It's very similar also in the concept all right so on that note we'll we'll leave it at that so that is my um system for that was a long one it's neo geo and i just blew through it there's lots of stuff you can talk about neo geo uh i had a few of them there's many videos of me playing around with all that stuff. Alright, so you guys have a good afternoon. And we'll see you in the morning. Alright, have a good one. Bye.