Grubstakers - Episode 20: The Murder of Barry and Honey Sherman

Episode Date: June 18, 2018

Its a canadian murder mystery episode! Who killed Barry Sherman and Honey Sherman eh? We would like to extend the killers an open invitation to appear on a future episode of our podcast anonymously, feel free to visit Andy at his address to confirm. It's aboot time we get down to the bottom of this bag full of milk. Its time for Grubstakers!

Hey everybody, welcome to Grubstakers, the podcast about billionaires. This week we're doing our first posthumous episode to look at the lives of Barry and Honey Sherman, two Canadian billionaires who were mysteriously murdered in December of 2017. We're going to explore this murder mystery and all the details we know that surround it, as well as the lives of Barry Sherman, his work in the generic drug market in Canada, as well as his work defending and litigating lawsuits against anyone who might have ever crossed him. The list of suspects has been narrowed down to 10,000.

All that and more coming up on Grubstickers. I think we disproportionately stop whites too much. I taught those kids lessons on product development and marketing, and they taught me what it was like growing up feeling targeted for your race. I am proud to be gay. I am proud to be a Republican. You know, I went to a tough school in Queens, and they used to beat up the little Jewish boys.

You know, I love having the support of real billionaires. Two? For a court? Yeah. Hey everybody, welcome back to Grubstakers. We got a very special murder mystery episode for you today, but before we get into it, Sean P. McCarthy here, joined by... Yogi Poliwal. Steve Jeffries.

Andy Palmer is out today. He was still researching Gangs of New York from the previous episode. He's been on Google since we recorded the last one, trying to figure out what haircut haircut daniel day lewis had in the meme that we were discussing a week ago um but he's out but uh it's his time of the month we're very excited because uh this is the it's a special episode in the sense that i guess we started the podcast asking is there such a thing as a good billionaire? And we have finally found a good billionaire.

And that is, of course, Barry Sherman, the Canadian billionaire who was murdered in his home. You know what? Good billionaire. I mean, you know, he hasn't done anything bad since December 14th of last year. So I'm pretty for him. On December 15th, he became a good billionaire. So, yes, Barry Sherman, you might have read this news story, even if you don't remember the name. Barry and Honey Sherman were Canadian billionaires.

Forbes estimated them at the time of their death. Forbes estimated Barry Sherman, anyways, was worth $3.2 billion. He was a Canadian pharmaceutical billionaire. And last year, this story kind of went around the Internet, and it's still ongoing. In December 15, 2017, Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead in their home. And this has been kind of evolved where it started out in the idea that this was a murder-suicide, that Barry killed his wife and then killed himself.

Or she killed him and then killed herself. You know, murder-suicide. You can't say who did what. Yeah, I mean, like, not to get too anti-progressive here, but I think the murder-suicide is usually the man doing it. I don't know. Jeffries, what do you think?

You think that in this case when they say murder-suicide, they only mean Barry killed Honey and then killed himself? It can't be that Honey was like, fuck you, Barry, I'm tired of your shit, and then killed herself because she couldn't deal with the guilt or something? She'd been taking steroids for months so that she could strangle him with a belt. Barry, bring some generic steroids home on your lunch break. No reason, just trying to bulk up.

So that's why he filed that suit to get that steroid patent revoked so that he could make the generics and he killed her by throwing a car at her. Oh, my God. I am a monster.

But, yeah, so, like, yeah, so, like, they were both found, and the cause of death has been determined by two autopsies to be strangulation. And they say by the way that they were strangled, it was likely they were actually strangled by somebody. The way the neck wounds

were shaped, that it didn't look like they hung themselves. Yeah, and also that their hands had signs of restraint, so that somebody had tied up their hands previous to them being strangled. Right. I don't know.

It's very terrifying that they were tied up before they were murdered. That means a person was like, all right, we got them tied up. What are we going to do now, boss? I guess we're going to choke them to death. Yeah. I guess, you know, there's a... Barry Sherman graduated top of his class at MIT, but I guess there's some things even you can't figure out when you're a number one MIT graduate.

Namely, how to not die after you've had your hands tied behind your back. They don't teach you that at MIT. That's a Harvard skill. They don't teach you how to swim at MIT. All right. Well, so we should talk about just kind of, we'll start with the timeline of the murder, because again, this is the murder mystery episode. We're like John Walsh here.

We are appealing to our listeners, if you know who killed Barry Sherman, first of all, keep that shit to yourselves. But if you know, you can tell us, because we're curious. We're a publicly funded domain uh entity and we would like any information to help us with this court case and so uh let's just kind of go through the timeline of the murder and then we'll get into the biography of you know barry sherman and to a

lesser extent honey sherman and his four children but um the timeline of the murder, like what's not in dispute, is essentially in December 2017, Honey Sherman, Barry's wife, wants him to put the house up for sale where they lived, according to the Toronto Star, near Bayview Avenue in Toronto. He didn't want to move, but she did. So in December 2017, they put the house for sale at an asking price of 6.9 million dollars now what this does is suddenly they have real estate agents coming and going you know with a lock box on the property so you know real estate agents can let themselves in and open the door and open the lock and stuff so um basically uh on wed, December 13, 2017, and again, this is according to the star at Toronto,

Honey, the wife, left Apotex, their company, around before 5 p.m. Barry left a little later. He left in the early evening, and his last known email from his Apotex account was sent between 6.30 p.m. and 8.30 p.m. Incidentally, to a Nigerian prince for a million dollars, all he had to do was give him $100,000.

It was a crazy email. His last known email, a threatening professional MMA fighter, was sent at 6.30 p. p.m god that'd be so terrible if your last email was like some like uh uh let me get a couple of these ab rollers and a couple of penis pills off the online web that's your last email ever that'd be so terrible you've got mail i think about that sometimes like if i die like because i like you know every few days or most of the time i just bomb like Facebook statuses or tweets.

Oh, they're not on stage, but yes. Right, yeah. I bomb on stage too. But like, you know, that's like ephoral. It just kind of disappears. Sure, sure. Whereas like... Ephemeral.

Ephemeral, yes. It's almost like I don't know the words that I'm using and I'm hoping, I'm just confident enough that nobody calls me out on it. Yeah, we're not recording this for an audience of people. No, no, you're fine um uh but so anyway so like the internet you know it's just there so you know sometimes you'll just like bomb a post and then you're just like well if i just got hit by a bus right now a bunch of people are going to be like oh we didn't really lose that much yeah sure yeah it would suck to have have your final post be something about, you know, Jewish people are terrible, and then all of a sudden you just get run over by a bus.

Anyways, the point is we got off track here. So Barry sends this last email at 6.30 saying, the ghost of Chris Benoit will not harm me tonight. And then the star says it's a business-related email. But the point is, we know he was alive Wednesday, December 13, 2017, sometime between 6.30 and 8.30 p.m. He leaves work, and then nobody hears from them at all Thursday, December 14. Then December 15, it's friday morning december 15 2017

at 8 30 uh the housekeeper and a person who waters the plants once a week arrives at the house for their friday morning visits and just for perspective like this 6.9 million dollar house is uh 12 000 square feet according to the um uh toronto star and um so at eight so it's like a big house and uh uh i'm just gonna quote from the star for a second uh they they busied themselves the housekeeper and the plant water on the main and second floor for the next two hours both of those floors are about 3600 square feet each so essentially, there were two murdered people in the house and they spent two hours working on it and they didn't notice that there were two murdered people in the house.

If there were two murdered people in my house, you would know it in less than a second. Right. They spent two hours working in Steve's studio apartment not noticing the body hanging outside of the rafters. When they opened the door and the door hit the other side of the apartment, they thought something might be wrong. Yeah, that's crazy to think about. Two people could work in your house and you could be murdered inside of it and nobody would know.

Not only did these two people get murdered murdered but the way they were murdered made it so that nobody could find where they were for 48 hours which is enough time to fly anywhere in the fucking world oh yeah yeah well it's like and so what kind of uh we'll get into the theory is that these were like professional hit men who carried out this murder but but let me just get back to the timeline and then we'll kind of speculate here. So essentially, 8.30 a.m., the housekeeper and the plant waterer come over, and they do their thing. And then 10.30 a.m. Oh, does it say plant waterer? It doesn't say gardener.

It says a person that takes care of their plants? Yes. What? That is actually a direct quote from the Toronto Star. That is very bizarre. The arborist was wondering. Working his magic. It's like having a guy that cleans your bathroom windows

versus your front windows. It's like, what? I just imagine while he was alive, the plant waterer tries to trim the hedges. He's like, I pay another person to do this. You are very specifically the plant waterer no don't water my fucking trees you piece of shit yes they are technically plants but as a result of a lawsuit you can only you can only trim the hedges you cannot water right right right

oh as we'll get it to barry sherman extremely litigious person so it's like you know again like we're talking about a billionaire and this is uh coming up on six more than six months of this being a cold case of a double homicide with a billionaire you know so it's like well the guy had a lot of enemies because he had like a hundred plus lawsuits going at any one time yeah they said that even at his funeral there's people there mourning him that were in lawsuits ongoing at that time. Yeah, their lawyers told them it would be a good idea to show up at the funeral.

Now, make sure you cry when the service is read. But so, okay, so 8.30, housekeeper, plant water plant water show up they work for two hours nothing doing 10 30 a.m two real estate agents and a couple interested in purchasing the house arrive and again just quoting from the toronto star here after touring the upper floor the agents and the clients went downstairs and walked along the corridor leading to the pool. The assistant went first of the real estate agent. She walked through the doorway to the pool room and recoiled. At the other end of the room, she saw two bodies, backs to the pool, held in a sitting position by something tied around their necks.

She turned and ushered the other agent and the clients back, making an excuse saying this part of the house was off limits at the moment. You know, I want to mention something. Real estate agents are snakes. And I fucking hate that this person's like, uh, that place is closed. Like, still having the clients on the hook for maybe buying the place one day. You know what I mean? They were like, you know, if I say there's a murder, I'm losing out on a commission right now.

Right, right, right. You can't be honest and let them know that the previous tenants were murdered here. Throw in financing? And when they see it? I'd love to see those clients being like, I mean, if you take off a couple million, we might still be interested. Maybe we can handle the mortgage.

We can handle the recording tax. How about that? The homicide detectives arrive and they're like drafting up paperwork. No, we're getting a great deal. We're closing right now. Honestly, a great, great deal. Look, if you don't sign these papers right now,

we can't promise that somebody won't come back and buy this house. I wonder if anyone has bought the house at this point. Look, they always return to the seam of the crime. Wow. Sometime to buy this house. I wonder if anyone has bought the house at this point. Look, they always return to the scene of the crime. Wow. Sometime to buy the property. Okay, so the discovery, the body, is discovered around 11 a.m.

The agent tells the housekeeper. The housekeeper calls 911. The 911 call comes 43 minutes later, which is kind of surprising. Well, they show the rest of the house first yeah yeah you know the pool area is closed but they still got what 50 000 square feet house you know and yeah we did mention 12 000 square feet so they arrive at 10 30 a.m and then they're spending half an hour showing the house before they find the body big house wow um but so the 9-1-1's called uh 11 43 a.m police are on route route by 11 44 a.m

december 15 2017 um and then the next day uh according to the star uh officials at apotex the uh pharmaceutical company that barry sherman found it learned of the deaths from media reports which were published around 3 30 friday 3 30 p.m on friday um so yeah that's uh the uh timeline uh oh yeah sorry december 15 was the friday and then later on in the same day media reports come out around 3 30 p.m so they're either murdered most likely the night of wednesday december 13 um and then nobody discovers their body for until the friday gosh i am very curious you said like the criminals always return to the scene of crime so it might be those clients and now i'm mentally obsessed with like who the fuck were these clients because like i don't think that they committed this crime but what if they did?

What if those clients wanted a better deal on that fucking house, and they're like, let's just go in and strangle these fucking people. We got our fucking meeting tomorrow, and then we'll buy it on the cheap. The real estate agents are like, so you said you worked in a psychiatry, Dr. Lecter?

Oh, I noticed you guys both carry piano wire from time to time. What's that all about? You really think you can afford this as a children's clown, Mr. Gacy? You know, I guess I really haven't looked into the finances, but, you know, hey, you want to see this place? All right, so the bodies are discovered, and then kind of a weird thing happens in December

where police investigators, they conduct their own autopsy, of course, and they start leaking to the press, you know, all on star the family hired top criminal lawyer brian greenspan who assembled a team of uh former homicide detectives who become private investigators and then they uh hired another um person to do the autopsy and then this is where we kind of get around to it where um the autopsy that the family conducted um determined that there were skin abrasions on the wrists based on crime scene photographs that indicated that they had their hands tied behind their backs. And then as we mentioned earlier, the strangulation indicated that it was likely not the belts.

Because they had two leather belts looped around their necks to hold them in sitting positions, backs to the pool. But the actual marks, according to this forensic examination, were that these were not the actual things that were used to strangle them. So there's, they're ruling out dual autoerotic asphyxiation death. That's what they're ruling out. Most likely.

Um, but so it was, yeah, uh, they, yeah, they were strangled with some other type of ligature and the belts were then put around their necks.

And, uh, it is just interesting where, um, there's a lot of speculation that this was essentially, as we mentioned, a professional hit. Where, like, people who knew that, like, I mean, my personal theory, and again, we'll get into this a little more. But essentially, somebody knew that they put their house for sale on December 2017, and somebody wanted them dead for X number of time, and then their house goes on sale,

and they say, oh, this is an opportunity because we can kill them in their house, and they're not going to be discovered for, in this case, two days. And if you try and kill someone after a move, you've got less knowledge about their house and obviously less access because there are not keys readily available in a lockbox. after a move you've got less knowledge about their house and obviously less access because they're not keys readily available right in a lockbox but you also mentioned uh sean previous

to us recording about how the videotapes were cut as well so this was like another interview i heard on um some canadian radio thing but basically like a guy it was on soundcloud but it was originally a no you're fine i just I just love how dismissive that sounds. Like, oh, yeah, some bullshit Canadian thing talking about their news up there in Canada. Like, look, if it was important, they'd be in New York City. But, I mean, I guess they were allowed to have their news up there. I don't know. The newscaster was drinking maple syrup while eating his bacon.

Are you calling our 12 Canadian listeners unimportant? I'm saying that they're not number one for a reason. Our 1812 Canadian fans. All right, so basically they interviewed this guy who said that he used to do private security for billionaires, which talk about blood money. They interviewed this guy. He was saying that he always advised clients that had a pool, which, of course, in this 12,000-square-foot house, they had a fucking pool, to have security cameras near the pool because it's a dangerous spot. And of course, Barry Sherman did. And then it has been leaked that the security camera footage was been turned off

for around the time of the murders. So it's like there's a lot of different things that lead us to suspect that it is, like the current theory is that it was multiple people carrying out a hit and it sounds professional in that they were tied with their arms behind their back with

ropes or something that was later taken from the crime scene. They were strangled with something that was later taken from the crime scene. They were left with these belts that came from the house, we believe. And we believe they were killed somewhere else and moved to the pool. And the lead detective, the homicide detective, Sergeant Susan Gomes, discussed how there's four terabytes worth of video footage that equates to about 2,000 hours, each terabyte being 500 hours of various footage, whether it's in the house or the other houses.

So there's just a lot of media to look through to find out hey what the fuck happened here and i mean the thing is is that like you know we don't really talk about this but in the future it'll be harder to look through video footage because the sheer size and quantities of it will be physically more demanding to do and i think this is a perfect example of that because in the same vein of because Barry Sherman was fighting so many lawsuits they don't have one pure motive killer in that same vein like they've got so much video footage that they've got to watch so much fucking shit to even find moderate clues whereas before it'd be like well we got one camera it's got two hours of footage

that'll take two hours but two thousand hours worth of video footage? Right. It's just very difficult to consume. In many ways, his wealth was his undoing because all his security cameras were like 4K. So it's just like, just terabytes and terabytes that these investigators have to get. This is why they told Sherman

to not use 4K RED cameras as his security cameras. Yeah, there's drone footage going linked up to the security system. That's there's drone footage going linked up to the security systems. The homicide detectives are like, look, the water, it looks real. You can just see the ripple effects.

It's like, just watching hours. Sir, we can't play this footage. Why? Well, our monitors aren't 4K. They're only 1080p. These government computers. You can still watch it. It'll just be lower quality. No,K. They're only 1080p. Yeah, they're on these government computers. I mean, you can still watch it. It'll just be lower quality.

They're like, no. No, no, sir. We need the higher quality. These government computers using Windows 98 and shit. They're like, yeah, this took six months because we just got the video to load. I mean, honestly, though. Has anyone downloaded VLC?

But that is the real concern here. It seems kind of frivolous, but you know, the ever... A billionaire's security system is probably more advanced than what the, not just Canadian PD,

but any PD in this country or abroad would be able to handle. And so, I'm not surprised that this investigation has taken as long as it has to have zero results. Yeah. And police don't have any suspects, but they did see a bald man with a barcode tattoo on the back of his neck leaving the property

shortly after the murders. That's right. He was dressed as a pool boy. He was dressed as the water somehow. Agent 47. You know, Square square enix if you're listening i would love to play that level can we get the the berry and honey sherman has downloadable content for uh the next chapter of hitman the next hitman game just opens with... Oh, wow. There is actually a similar level in Hitman Blood Money. Great game. But so you're trying to kill somebody who's turned...

Real quick, Jeffries, do you like the game series Hitman? Do you know about this? I've played one of the older ones. I think Sean and I might be the most hardcore Hitman fans on the Gross Stickers podcast. It's honestly one of my favorite video game series. I completely agree. But without getting on too much of a thing, there is a similar thing where you have to do a hit hitman fans it's you know it's honestly one of my favorite video games i completely agree um but

without getting on too much of the thing there is like a similar thing where like you have to do a hit on like somebody who turned government informant at their like mansion and so one of the things is you can like dress up like the pool boy and then his like drunk wife will try to seduce you and then you but uh oh the favorite thing from that level, and this shows the hyper-realism of Hitman, is that the FBI are staking out the property. So one of the strategies is you can bring them a box of donuts that you put asleep. You inject with some sort of sedative. And then you leave the donuts outside the FBI watch van, and the FBI agent will just take the donuts and then eat them. Perfect.

Because, you know, they're FBI agents. They can't control themselves. People knock Hitman. It's just advanced clue. That's all it really is. Hey, how did this person get murdered in this room with what object? That's the game. That's all you're doing with Hitman.

It's an amazing game. Yes, we should have mentioned that. Except you're the one leaving the clues. I mean, you know, if you're good, you leave no clues. And that's really a mystery. Like the murders of Barry Sherman and Honey. Yeah, we also forgot to mention that multiple candlesticks were found on the property. But so anyways, the point is, as of right now, this is still a cold case.

It's being considered a cold case. It's being considered a double homicide. There's no real suspects, but it's believed multiple people came into the property, killed them, and disappeared. And so I guess we can just kind of get into the bio of Barry Sherman, and then we could talk a bit if we have any theories of what might have gone down here. Yeah, that sounds great. So Barry Sherman actually wrote his memoirs, or he wrote like 47 pages of them while he was on vacation. Yeah, he wrote A Legacy of Thought, is what he called it,

when he was on vacation in 1996 in Tanzania. He wrote 47 pages of what was to be his memoirs. And it's interesting because this thing only exists because his cousins sued him, Uh, he, he wrote, um, 47 pages of what was to be his memoirs. And it's interesting cause this thing only exists because his cousins sued him, which we'll get into later. Um, and so it was introduced into court documents. Um, and so he has a lot of interesting little quotes in there. He, he says he doesn't believe in God. He doesn't believe in free will.

He believes quote, life has no meaning or purpose, which I agree with you. But I guess we should just kind of go through. My bio research is mostly based on what he wrote about himself. So let me just kind of go through the basics here. In 1942, he was born in Canada, in Toronto. His grandparents fled to Canada after pogroms in both Poland and Russia. His father was the president and partner in a zipper company in Canada. And he died of a heart attack when Barry was 10.

His mother was an occupational therapist. And he started an engineering science degree at the University of Toronto in 1960 and then he graduated in 64, got a scholarship to MIT, had a master's in aeronautics in 65 from MIT and a PhD in systems engineering from 1967, MIT. And during his high school years and while at the university, he worked for his uncle, Louis Lloyd Winter, at his Empire Laboratories, which was how he was introduced to the pharmaceutical business, which Empire Laboratories was then Canada's largest wholly owned pharmaceutical company.

This is a quote from Wikipedia. Right. Yeah. And so and that's interesting because essentially part of his memoir and like, again, it's introduced by court documents. So like if you can look at it online, I'll link to it in the Tumblr. But you can, in court documents, there's, like, writing on the margins that are, like, not true, and this is a lie or whatever. Just, like, because basically in the memoir, he, like, writes at various points about how he took over. So Empire Laboratories, he writes about how it was like insolvent when he took it over,

when in reality, or at least his cousins claim it was doing fine. But so yes, his mother's younger brother, Lou Winters, founded Empire Laboratories, which he worked for from 1960 to 1962 during the summers. And so so basically this was a canadian

company that originally just uh repackaged and resold bulk american generic drugs but they set up their first manufacturing plant in 1962 and so uh according to uh barry sherman they had about a million dollars uh in sales per year in 1965 um and then at the end of 65 in november his uncle lou winters dies i believe of an aneurysm and then his uh his uncle's wife dies a few weeks later and so they leave behind four children it was four right there's four yeah uh four children his cousins who are all too young to take over the business um and the most notable who we'll talk more about later is carrie winter um i couldn't find the names of the other three cousins but uh essentially after uh they become orphaned two of them end up becoming drug addicts to crack

cocaine and heroin and the other two there's not much more information I could find about them. They became drug addicts to the generic version of Paxil for some reason. But yeah, so he graduates MIT, then he returns to Toronto January 1967, and so these kids that his uncle um his uncle and uh his uncle's widow left behind or his uncle the widow died excuse me what's the word i'm looking for his dead aunt and uncle i guess his deceased yes his deceased aunt and uncle left four kids behind who were too young to administer the business so a trust is set up to administer the business along with two attorneys and so what um barry does barry sherman is he convinces the attorneys to lobby the trust to sell him the

company right and so uh uh in uh as we mentioned in 1965 it had about a million sales per year 1967 uh september 1967 he's able to lobby the um trust to sell it to him for about 250 000 and uh he gets this money from his business partner, Joel Ulster's dad, gave $150,000. And according to him, his mom took out a loan for $100,000 based on her assets of $100,000. Friends and family trust. Yes. Exactly. But so where the kind of dispute comes in is you were saying, Yogi, that there was some sort of agreement with the cousins that they would get 20% of it?

Yeah, so the uncle that we just mentioned, in his will, I believe, it was said that 5% of the company would go to each one of his sons. Or each one of the kids, I believe they're all sons. And so 20% of Empire rightfully belonged to Kerry Winter and his three other brothers. This was not known to Kerry Winter. Basically, 5% of the company was supposed to go to each one of the kids, Kerry Winter and his brothers. And Barry Sherman fucked them over out of that. And they didn't know about this until 2007,

which is when a lawsuit occurred between the cousins and Barry Sherman. But before that, all of this happened. Right. So in 1967, September, he buys the company again for $250,000 from the trust and with the advice and consent of the two attorneys who are supposed to be looking out for these four underage children. Right. But so in 67, he's really kind of the beneficiary of a string of good luck, which is that a couple different laws pass in Canada,

which I'll just kind of go through briefly. But a pharmacy act or an amendment to the Pharmacy Act passed in 1968, again, a year after he buys this thing, which basically allows doctors to prescribe generics instead of brand names. Before then, it was like you had to do brand names. But this act in 1968 sets up a board called PARCOST, P-A-R-COST, that kind of oversees

the generic market in Canada and gives a list of approved generics that you can prescribe instead of brand names. So this is a big boost to the generic pharma industry, which of course he now owns one. And then the even bigger thing comes in 1969 under Pierre Trudeau's government. They passed what's called Bill C-102. And just quoting from unionretiree.ca, bill c-102 in 1969 amended the patient act to allow compulsory licensing as of right on the payment of a royalty to the patent holder the previous period that you would hold a patent in canada had been 17 years so essentially canada had the same system as the u.s where a patent holder would have exclusive rights to a drug for, say, 17 years. But then they did this Bill C-109, which says, actually, anyone can just get a patented drug by paying a royalty.

And then just quoting from that same website, from that period until 1987, when the Patent Act was amended, Canada enjoyed the lowest drug prices in the world. And then drug prices went up in Canada for some various reasons that we might have time to talk about. But the point is essentially a couple different, you know, in my mind, good laws were passed in Canada to try and reduce the cost of prescription drugs and such. But he happened to be owning a prescription drug company and this is how he was able to build his 3.2 billion dollar fortune by uh being in the right place at the right time when the right laws were passed um and so again from his biography he claims about 2 million in sales a year by 1972 he sells this company uh for he says just under 2 million in uh 1973 to icn canada and then he puts the profits back into setting up apotex in 1973 74 and later on this is why the court case between carrie winter and barry sherman

eventually gets thrown out because the courts claim that uh it was an empire that barry sherman built up but apotex and so that's why it doesn't fucking matter. Right. And so the cousins, like, as I mentioned, there's a lot of, like, notations in this little memoir where it says, you know, this isn't true or whatever, or this is a lie. And I think, like, the biggest lie is at the end of chapter five

where he says, quote, a lot more to come. But anyway, so yeah. That's great. That's like when a show series ends and it says to be continued. That was right before the note that just says hungry. But so I believe it was 1996 the cousins sue him for the first time

or it might've been later in the 2000s. But the case was essentially thrown out in 2017, shortly before he died. And then the cousins were planning to appeal, and then he was murdered. Right. So, again, the cousins are like, we'll talk about this a little bit,

they're certainly suspects. Yeah, so there's this Canadian television show called The Fifth Estate that did a full look at this murder. And during this program, Kerry Winter did a lie detector test, and it was like a two or three hour thing, and failed it a whole bunch

and it's very funny because all of the news reports on this program were like hey why did that guy talk to you again after he had failed the lie detector test like what the fuck is wrong with this guy but Kerry Winner said a lot of outlandish stuff

in that show like at one point during so it's after the lie detector test and they meet with carrie winner one last time at this coffee shop and they basically ask him again like hey carrie did you kill your cousin and carrie winner goes oh no no no i talked about it vividly i i mean i i said often like if i were to do it, I would go to Apotex, show up in the parking lot, cut his head off, neck to neck, and then throw his head and roll it down and then just wait for the cops. And we'll put that clip in right here.

And he confessed to us he had indeed fantasized about killing Barry Sherman. Like I would talk about killing Barry. And it was very graphic. The way I was going to do it wouldn't have been belts. It was going to be in the Apotex parking lot. That was my vision, always, that he'd come out of the building in Apotex, and I'd be hiding behind a car, and I'd just decapitate him. I wanted to roll his head down the parking lot, and I'd just sit there waiting for the police.

Great. It was interesting that when they were interviewing him he was playing Hitman Blood Money. Like if you could just stop playing that game

and answer our questions about the murder. Yeah, he kept licking his lips and going, sorry, I have a little bit of honey left on mine. Just kept saying

Clarice a whole bunch. But, you know, that episode of The Fifth Estate is very good at showing what happened and how not only the cousins were suspect, but that Barry Sherman was a part of, like Sean mentioned, over a hundred lawsuits.

And so, you know... Over almost, I think, I read there was a part of, like Sean mentioned, over 100 lawsuits. And so, you know... Over almost, I think I read there was a thousand... He's of some party in a thousand cases in the Canadian legal system. Yeah. Well, I was just going to say, quoting again from the Star, different article, but according to Amir Adaran, who's a professor at University of Ottawa, he said, quote, I think he was

he, Barry, I think he was probably the most active litigant in any industry in Canada. So basically, like, and then Adaran kind of goes on to say that's how they spin it. He was always in court fighting for

Canadians to get cheaper drugs, because the majority of his lawsuits were essentially against brand name pharmaceuticals, whether they be in the United States or wherever. So he always spends it as like he was trying to like sue to get, you know, access to line interest is a little different there where it's like, you know, even though generics are like cheaper than brand names, according to Adaran, he did a study which basically said Canadians pay about twice, almost twice as much as people in Germany and the United Kingdom do for generics because they have kind of like a set system where these various generics are set at prices about eight, all about 18% of the brand name version. Which, of course, is heavily distorted by the prices of the brand name version. And it's not reflective of the competitive systems that are used or the negotiation, importantly, that's used in the United Kingdom, Germany.

For our U.S. solicitors, you're going to have to dispense with everything you know about drug prices and realize that Canadians, although they have it insanely good compared to us here in the U.S., there's still a lot to complain about. Generic prices in Canada have only gone up, albeit creepingly up, for years thanks to these legal cases. In the U.S., those drugs you pay about $2,000 for, they pay about $30 in Canada. But they're upset that they pay $15 in the United Kingdom. And it is outrageous.

Yeah, so the completely socialized medicine system in the U.K UK is just living it up compared to us Canadians. Oh, and this kind of gets into, and again, I think at the end we'll just summarize all our theories on who might have killed him. But because he was suing all these branded drug companies, again, these are multi-billion dollar companies. That is one theory for who killed the guy. Again, it sounds like these were professional hit men or women we don't want to thank you sean wow uh wow steven the round of applause for sean being so progressive to think maybe a guy didn't murder this couple maybe there's some women murderers you know they were uh they were uh strangled with i'm with her hair ties there is a hillary clinton tie-in we'll do at the end of this episode um but uh oh yeah so uh uh he

gives uh barry sherman actually speculated on his own death in a 2001 interview um he said quote the branded drug companies hate us they have private investigators on us all the time. The thought once came to my mind. Why didn't they just hire someone to knock me off? And maybe somebody at like one of the branded drug companies read that and were like, we never fucking thought of that.

This genius gave us a great idea for ending this problem. Another thing in the Fifth Estate that his cousin Carrie Winter says is that at one point, Barry asked me, hey, would you whack my wife off for me? Right. And I was like, Barry, you want me to kill your wife? And Barry said, not you, but I know you can arrange that. And we'll input that audio right here.

He says despite police ruling that the sherman deaths were a double homicide there's a decades-old reason why he believes barry sherman killed his wife he maintains sherman had tried to do it before and another amazing claim kerry said barry had asked him to help and there was a time in his office that he turned to me and he said, Carrie, I want you to do me a favor. And I said, what's that, Barry? He said, I want you to whack my wife. And I said, come on, Barry.

You want me to kill your wife? He goes, I didn't say you. You know some people. Could you arrange that for me? And I said, you're serious. You're asking me to arrange whacking your wife. And he said, said yeah i hate her and i said barry i'll go ahead and do that and i did i planned it and i set it up did you think

perhaps i should warn honey perhaps i should i hated her too police no i didn't like honey but i mean like what's crazy about that is like but he did fail a lie detector on that yeah he did well yes which are on that. Yeah, he did. Which are scientific and completely valid. Right, right, right, right. The most recent article I just looked at said that he might try and plead, like, mental instability for one of the court cases so he can't represent himself or something. The cousin? Yeah, there's a lot of nonsense. For which court case?

I mean, like... I think because they're appealing on Barry Sherman's cousin to undergo disability assessment as billion-dollar appeal continues. May require a litigation guardian to oversee his part of the case. The two affidavits that would shed light on comments about Winter's mental states are sealed from public view. The Sherman family's lawyer wants them unsealed. I don't know, man. Basically, everyone's fucking money hungry in this family, and they all kind of suck.

To me, Kerry Winter came off as like, he just wants to be in the media's eye more than anything. He's willing to basically publish his If I Did It. The affidavits were prepared by Julia Winter, Kerryrie sisters-in-law who lives in western canada and as the widow of sherman cousin dana winter julia carrie and two of the other cousins of barry sherman jeffrey and paul barkin have for years been involved in litigation over the billionaire's company a case now before the ontario court of appeal and justice captain van rensberg carry winner is unable to self-represent or instruct counsel appreciate the reasonably foreseeable consequences of his

decisions and the issues which are relevant to his proceedings and is at serious risk of relapse because of his mental disability all right i see what's going on now right his other cousins are trying to push carry out to make it so that they don't lose the court case this is oh the ongoing court yes the ongoing court case to appeal get the uh stake to get the stake of their company that they are they do rightfully deserve if you ask right because they're yeah their father left them this 20 share the four kids and then um barry sherman uh screwed them out of it a but b like uh two of the four as you mentioned mentioned, had drug problems, drug addictions, and then he kind of provided them financial assistance to kind of string them along. Well, so that was what's—and they talk about this in The Fifth Estate,

but basically Barry Sherman helped Carrie and his other cousin out of drug addiction and into sobriety and did everything from supporting their business ventures to you know affording them houses and cars and stuff however carrie in the interview does at one point say like yes it seems like he was just giving me money because he's a nice dude but in reality i was under his thumb it was more a move of like i'm giving you this money but if you wrong me then if i can i'm gonna ask for this shit back basically right because he said that uh he was trying to start a construction business and it wasn't profitable and basically he was like i was losing money always so like this wasn't this wasn't him being like hey here's more money because you're doing good it was more like hey here's more money don't you know don't bother me right

well and it's interesting because again like these four kids had their both of their parents die when they were very young and they should have had 20 stake to what was essentially a gold mine which was a generic drug manufacturer right around the time canada passed all these laws that vastly increased the profitability of generic drug manufacturers so it's like you know it's not surprising that two of them had you know serious drug problems or mental problems or whatever you know it's like, you know, it's not surprising that two of them had, you know, serious drug problems or mental problems or whatever. You know, it's a traumatic event. And then you got fucked out of all this money that you should have had. I think you could argue Barry Sherman might have had a hand in.

I mean, like, this guy literally makes drugs. Like, you're telling me he wasn't a part of his cousins becoming addicted to drugs? At one point, when people asked, because he didn't have contact with his cousins during this period when they became drug addicts and they asked Barry Sherman hey, why didn't you see your cousins? And this is a quote from him. He's like, I'm going to see them on the night of December 15th 2017.

He goes, to see those cousins there's some cousins I haven't seen in decades. And we'll put that audio in here as well. I didn't see them. There was no need or no point. I have cousins all over the as well. I didn't see them. There was no need or no point. I have cousins all over the world. I don't go see them. I have lots of cousins I haven't seen in decades.

But that's the epitome of this guy. He is money-hungry, doesn't believe in any sort of faith, and honestly doesn't care about anything but himself or money. And just one more interesting story about his litigious nature, because again, we mentioned he had more than 100 lawsuits going at once, possibly thousands working their way through the courts. One of those lawsuits was, again, quoting from the star here, when Barry and Honey Sherman bought their North York property in 1985, they planned to spend $2.3 million to build and develop their dream home this is of

course the home they were eventually murdered in um but they noticed problems with the home within months of moving and in 1991 barry described it as quote a disaster um they filed uh multiple lawsuits against the house's designers and builders and wound up recouping 2 million of the contracted amount to construct the home, according to a 2006 judgment. So basically they spent $2.3 million and got at least $2 million back for this home they later went on to sell for $6.9 million. Yeah. It's extremely petty.

And again, when you're worth over a billion. Right. And it's like, you know, they don't need the money. And I think that's one of the things that is apparent about Barry Sherman. He's not arguing for personal gain in like, I need this. He doesn't give a fuck. It really was a good idea for them to sue all of the people who know the layout of their property. Like, geez, maybe one of the home designers did it.

I think it could be them it was the interior designer the interior decorator like you didn't appreciate my uh uh uh modern style and you thought if a company's making houses that are 2.3 million dollars they probably can take a 2 million hit but even the lawyer fees on top of that i think that that would burn them enough to where they'd be like fuck we're gonna murder these motherfuckers um and i guess i just kind of want to go through uh apotex the company he founded in 73 and then officially he started founding in 73 officially incorporated 74. So as of today, it has more than 10,000 employees. 2017, Forbes says it has 1.5 billion global revenue.

We've mentioned it has rights to like the generic for Paxil, a few other big sellers. And they're just like a couple different scandals that it's been wrapped up in that we should cover pretty quick. In 2013, 45 women sued them in a class action for 800 million uh because they claimed uh that this is from fierce pharma.com uh they claimed that a packaging uh foul up by apotex led them to take placebos instead of active birth control pills. What? Four of the 45 women had to have abortions because of this. Oh, my God.

Yeah, so... Did they win that lawsuit, the women? So as of 2015, it's still working its way through the courts. And actually, in 2017, another lawsuit was filed against Apotex over this birth control thing. So there's at least two lawsuits still working their way through the courts, and we'll update on the Tumblr. But the point is, oh, and so if I could just quote from Fierce Pharma here,

basically there was a recall by Health Canada, or there was an alert issued for these Alicicena 28 birth control pills after it was discovered that some packages contained 14 active contraceptive pills and 14 placebos instead of the typical 21 active and 7 placebos that birth control pills are supposed to contain. So basically they sent double the number of placebos they could and at least four women had to have abortions over this

but probably countless more there are placebos in birth control that's a real thing yeah i guess so you know how is that legal how what maybe i'm just learning things and forgive me listener if you knew that there were placebos in birth control but when i buy advil it doesn't say 40 tablets real, 40 tablets fake. Contains just 20% placebo. Yeah, like what? Oh, nice. This isn't like fucking Tropicana contains 2% juice. This is fucking medicine.

It is great that I didn't know that either, and both Yogi and I are in relationships. So we've really just been kind of trusting science on this one. Oh, and yeah, the health minister at the time. Not dog. I don't use birth control. I hit that shit raw, son. Yeah, 100% placebo.

Divexes. That's great. Yeah. Oh, yeah, the health minister at the time in canada ordered an investigation into why it took five days after the mistake was found before apotex alerted the public oh wow that uh they've been giving them placebos um but so yeah so that lawsuit's ongoing um as of 2015 a court has said it's allowed to proceed and then we'll see about damages and these kinds of things but they are 45 women are seeking 800 million dollars um canadian um and then so the other interesting story that apotex has been involved in is a drug called mefloquine, which is a, whatchamacallit, malaria drug. And so in 2013, the U.S. Army restricted mefloquine after the FDA warned of, quote,

possible permanent side effects such as dizziness, insomnia, seizures, as well as psychiatric reactions including paranoia, depression, and anxiety. So that was in 2013. But a weird thing happened where Canada didn't restrict the drug. And sorry, that quote that I got was... Fuck, I don't know. I believe that was from The Star. Yes, sorry. That quote that I got was from The Star. But so a weird thing happened

where the u.s army restricted in 2013 the united kingdom did the same thing around the same time but canada didn't actually restrict use of the drug until january 2017 and then according to stewart mccarthy no relation on twitter apotex apotex was the can manufacturer of mefloquine and a Justin Trudeau financial contributor. I'm sorry, it's Trudeau. Justin Trudeau. Jesus Christ. But basically, they were a major contributor to the Liberal Party in Canada and, of course, to Justin Trudeau's government. And they were the supplier of the Canadian military

for this anti-malaria drug. And somehow it took four years from the time that the U.S. said, we're not going to use this anymore because people are having psychotic episodes. There have been suicides. Another, John Dow on Twitter, said that a spike of suicides was reported in 03 from Iraq war veterans taking this drug, but then when it was discontinued in Iraq in 2004, army suicides kind of abated, which again, you know, causation correlation,

but there has been a lot of uh anecdotal reports particularly by veterans there are a lot of veterans group who have been affected by this who said that you know this drug causes depression psychosis this kind of thing and like you were saying yeah like there's this uh french musician strome he's belgian he sings in french who uh had uh major issues after taking this not this but a malaria medication and had panic attacks and suicidal thoughts and anxiety and so on and so forth. But I also took malaria medication growing up. And during my worst bouts of depression and suicidal thoughts were among the times I took malaria medication. And when I learned about the Stromae case,

if you don't know Stromae, he has a song, All Our Undowns. I'll play this in the background of me speaking right now. It's scary because it kind of makes sense because the symptoms of, you know, suicidal thoughts, panic attacks, and like depression, they're very similar to how you kind of feel if you do start experiencing malaria in that outside of the chills and fevers, you do kind of feel like you do start experiencing malaria in that outside of the chills and fevers you do kind of feel like killing yourself and so um but but maybe that's because you took the brand name instead of the generic yeah that could be true um but i mean like you know the reality is is that malaria medication is often made by people in laboratories for people in third world countries

and they don't care as much about these side effects because you know who gives a fuck if people who are experiencing malaria might be killing themselves or have panic attacks as long as they don't have malaria is I think the win win in that situation but you know who we do care about is the 15,600

Canadian soldiers who were given this drug between 2001 and 2012 according to the Star. Yeah, and I mean, those people, I bet a slew of them dealt with a whole bunch of problems. Yeah, there was like another thing that I got from the Star, which was essentially like, and I don't know if Barry Sherman is actually tied to this one, but essentially in Somalia, some Canadian peacekeepers were deployed and they beat to death a somalian kid who like trespassed on the property oh my god and they later said that

this was partly a result of a psychotic episode from this drug um wow yeah so it's like again there have been a lot of reports of depression suicide psychosis etc etc the thing is is that these are drug manufacturers who are using their power of, hey, we just make the drugs to inflict pain in the world and be, you know, mask it with, no, no, I'm just a good guy trying to sell cheaper drugs to people.

And it's like, you're actually allowing people to kill one another and not take any claim for it. There's a really good strategy this guy had of poisoning the the canadian special forces before he was mysteriously murdered by professionals who seemed to know what they were doing um but yeah no like uh and then just like kind of quick uh end to that anecdote is that um as we mentioned this was being used by the canadian military um and uh

apotex in 2017 sued uh the canadian lobbying commissioner who was essentially looking into and trying to get documents related to um an august 2015 fundraiser um that barry sherman hosted which uh prime minister justin Justin Trudeau showed up at, as well as another Liberal MP. They both showed up at, this was during an election, and Barry Sherman hosted a $1,500 event. Tickets for the event were $1,500 each, and they hosted this event at their home

for the Prime Minister of Canada. And of course, hey, maybe when you fundraise a shitload of money for the Prime Minister of Canada, he tweets course, hey, maybe when you fundraise a shitload of money for the Prime Minister of Canada, he tweets condolences when you're murdered in your home, but he also gives you maybe beneficial access to government contracts and you can supply your depression psychosis pills to the army and the military four years after the US bans it. But yeah, I mean, that's so basically that and then like the the one last uh thing i want to get into on apotex is um this lady the doctor named nancy oliveri um she was doing uh some studies uh this is from uh ncbi.gov um she was doing uh studies for a drug to treat a medical condition called

thalassemia i know i'm probably pronouncing that wrong like i pronounce everything on this show but it's a blood disorder involving less than normal amounts of um-carrying protein in blood cells. They were doing, she was doing studies on this drug, deferiprone, starting in 1989. In 93, Apotex began to provide financial support for trials. And again, this is from ncbi.gov. By March 1996, she believed that her data showed that participants in these drug trials had iron concentrations in the liver that were above clinically desirable levels. Apotex, that was now funding her studies, disagreed with her interpretation and terminated

these trials 72 hours after she attempted to amend consent forms to warn patients of alleged reduced efficacy. And then the company also invoked a nondisclosure clause in its contract to prevent her from publishing her results. And then when in 1998 she published her results, Apotex sued her for $20 million. Wow. So yes, a litigious guy who of course portrays that as all fighting for the Canadian citizen to get lower drug prices, but who also sues doctors who try to warn people that his drugs are killing people.

So, all the chips are in. We got a good chunk of the information out to you listeners. McCarthy, Jeffries, who do you think killed Sherman and Honey? The Rothschilds. Oh, one other fun thing I forgot is in the months leading up to his death, he was apparently working on a marijuana pill, like a generic marijuana cannabis delivery pill.

And so this was kind of speculated about because, again, a marijuana pill, like a generic marijuana cannabis delivery pill, you know. And so, like, this was kind of speculated about because, again, this is billion-some-dollar disruption to both the actual marijuana industry, but also, like, the opioid pharmaceutical industry, where if you can, you know, take essentially cannabis THC pills in an effective manner, then, you know, you don't have to take these opiate prescriptions, but you also don't have to smoke or ingest marijuana in other ways. So, you know, what I'm saying is Purdue Pharma killed him. So, all the chips are in. Ladies and gentlemen, audience abroad,

and the people in the room right now, who do you think killed Barry Sherman and his wife, Honey Sherman? Jeffries, who do you think killed barry sherman and his wife honey sherman jeffries what do you think well reading through like first his memoirs and then the actual uh murder investigation is like wow this is some oleg daripaska level shit going on here yeah yeah potential mob connections maybe um i was like wait what was oleg's wife doing those years and so i got the thinking and maybe polina oh yeah actually took another international flight london to canada absconded to canada with um oleg's rival yeah roman abramovich yeah it is and she needed generic medication she need actually she

needed branded medication yes right because she perversely likes paying more for her drugs well it is a status symbol it is that is yeah yeah i mean it has you can put fucking spinners on the box or something and you have to really show people it um so yeah i think either either here's what i think went down either polina had a hand in the death or it was a murder suicide but then hours later the real estate agent who felt jilted came by and then he was going to kill them but he saw that they're already dead but he still wanted a piece of the action. So he tied them up with the belts that weren't actually used to

kill them. It is difficult to speculate who might have killed him because the suspects include anybody who has ever read his memoir. That's why I didn't read it. I made sure to keep off that list. I have a theory, and I know that this will be ill-received by everyone.

I think his kids did it. No, no, no, not Hillary Clinton. Not this time. But I bet somewhere in her email she said she did do it. Maybe he was warm-up for Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade. Oh, wow. Let's get the strangulation death down right and see if we can start knocking off people who are going to expose the Clinton Foundation.

I think it was potentially the two daughters of Barry Sherman and Honey Sherman. And the only reason I have to think this is because at the funeral... If you're an attorney, this podcast is satire. At the funeral, the two daughters wore sunglasses on stage. And it's like, if your parents are murdered, you don't wear sunglasses indoors. I know it might be like, oh, but it's a funeral. I don't want people to see me cry. By the way, your brother is crying during the eulogy, and your youngest sister is bawling on stage.

You can cry for five minutes. Fuck vanity. You need sunglasses on right now? Ray-Bans? You need Ray-Bans on right now? I'm actually of the belief that Barry and Honey Sherman were crisis actors and this was all an attempt to restrict

rope laws in Canada and give God-fearing Canadians to take away their ropes. Generic rope laws, not these brand-name ropes. Against the godless atheists. Oh, and I did want to just read one quote from Barry Sherman's memoir, just so you can get a bit of an idea of the guy he was. In addition to the no God, no free will, life has no meaning or purpose stuff, just this

quote here. He said, Voltaire said, noblesse oblige, which loosely translates to, with power and wealth comes obligation. I do not see any rational basis for that pronouncement. There is no objective basis to hold that anyone is obligated

to do anything not required by law. Each person can be expected only to pursue personal happiness in whatever manner he sees best from his own perspective. That was actually read to Tesla employees last year. Right before

the production of the earlier release. We gotta get the Tesla employees who were thanking Elon Musk for firing them to listen to our episode it's not too late they actually read sherman's his manifesto his memoirs for uh all 47 pages of it each person can be expected only to pursue personal happiness in whatever manner he sees best from his own perspective uh which was also a quote from the man who murdered barry sherman and his wife i just feel like we shouldn't judge

him off his unfinished memoir because it's like i get that these are words he wrote but also he knew that they weren't good enough to release you know what i mean he also acknowledged this ain't good enough for the world's eyes. I like that story of one of his earliest childhood memories when he's going to visit his dad's zipper factory. So it's like take your kid to work day or something.

He gives his son the job of boxing up the zippers. And he said, now son, never turn off the security cameras over your pool if the time should come. He didn't listen. He didn't listen.

Too focused on boxing the zips. So he's boxing up the zippers, and he's like, I'm going to fucking rock this so that my dad realizes my potential. Yeah. And he boxes them up so fast, but his dad's like dad's like wow okay let me count them up to make sure he did this shit right and then he was mad about that he was like I can't believe my dad thought that was wrong

and that's why I decided to destroy Canadian generic brand law right right right this guy was a fucking tool I'm not happy he's dead but I'm not Canadian generic brand law. Right, right, right. This guy was a fucking tool. I'm not happy he's dead,

but I'm not sad he's dead. I'm just like shocked there. It's like, again, this guy, according to his own memoir, graduated first in his class, MIT, and then he just didn't think that like, oh, if I'm going to have a thousand lawsuits going at once while I'm a billionaire, maybe I should hire security.

Maybe I should like pay somebody to make sure i don't get murdered in my home because like he drove a 99 mustang and it's like rich people like billionaire level rich people that drive shitty cars they know their fate is sealed because it's like they could spend half of their wealth protecting themselves in quotes but they know that fucking another dude with more money can fucking pop them at any moment. The security is knowing that there's no security, I think.

Yeah, I mean, I know his memoirs might be deemed as, like, unfinished and shitty or whatever, but... No, he's gonna finish them. One of the cousins will finish it. A thousand monkeys on generic apotex drugs could one day write the

the rest of it is written by an apotex corporate attorney yeah absolving the killer writes the foreword anonymously when I killed Barry I never thought I would come to appreciate his writings the way that I have. Oh, do you guys, before we end, do you want to hear a little bit more about this home that he was murdered in?

Yeah, sure. According to the Star, the home has indoor and outdoor pools and hot tubs, a tennis court, and underground parking for six cars with a heated ramp. The five-plus-one bedroom, nine-bath home is two stories and features hardwood floors and a balcony the lower floor is anchored by a massive garage bordered by the indoor pool a sauna and changing room uh neighboring rooms including a sitting room include a sitting room a recreation room and hobby room and a nanny's room with a kitchen and bathroom. And if you sound interested, that house is now on the market. And they will probably give you a discount from the $6.9 million asking price.

I just love that there's a room called the sitting room. Not like we can put chairs in any room of this fucking house, but this is the one we choose to sit in. Specialized. Specialized sitting in these. I guess now they call it the getting strangled in room. Oh, my God. All right.

I think that's everything. McCarthy, you good? Yeah. Jeffries, how are you feeling about this? Anything we missed? I think we're wrapped. Oh, we should mention just alive billionaires. They did leave behind four children.

That's right. We mentioned Lauren, Jonathan, Alexandra, and Kaylin are now inheritors of this billion-dollar fortune. And, you know, my personal speculation is that one of these brand-name drug people that he crossed, I think Adam killed. Because we've mentioned this sounded like a professional hit. They clearly knew the house went on the market early December, and they saw their opportunity. Someone had a grudge. They were like, okay, we we're gonna do this here and then you know the fact that the initial police investigation was boggled leads me to conclude or it's reasonable to assume that maybe somebody was

paid off in the police force or maybe you know they just counted on people not doing their jobs right but hey we'll see if we find out as of of June 2018, this is a cold case, double murder. We will find out. Maybe we will, maybe we won't, who is actually responsible for the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman. But you know what, listener? If you have theories, please share them with us.

Please send us a comment. We'll put it on our Tumblr. And also, if you enjoy our podcast please subscribe and rate us however you think many stars we deserve thank you very much for listening we are streamed in over 40 countries and all across the United States

it's been a great pleasure to have you listening to us my name is Yogi Pollywall I'm Sean P. McCarthy Stephen Jeffries and Barry's Killers if you're listening good job and behind it all the dark corners of the Sherman

family saga a complex tale of betrayal and broken relationships that continue to this day the whole relationship was based on lies and deception. Kerry Winter is Barry Sherman's first cousin. As police investigators compile the names of those who could have wanted the Shermans dead,

even Winter himself admits he might be on that list. Emotional, anxious, and angry. Kerry Winter leaves no doubt he felt deeply betrayed by Barry Sherman, and he wanted revenge. So I was heartbroken. I was betrayed. My cousin hurt me, and now I want if you can.