Grubstakers - Episode 24: Marc Rich and Pincus Green

Episode Date: July 16, 2018

Our newest episode is about Marc Rich and Pincus Green, the billionaire co-founders of Glencore and fugitives from justice until happenstance allowed them to receive a final act in office pardon from President Bill Clinton. Though Marc Rich has sadly passed from this Earth his legacy and his fortune lives on through his daughters, both of whom are using the money he made perpetuating apartheid in South Africa to pursue art that makes the world a better place. If there are problems with the audio tweet at Andy, Yogi will be back next week.

Hey everybody, welcome to Grubstakers, the podcast about billionaires. This week we're talking about Pincus Green and Mark Rich, the co-founders of Glencore and Bill Clinton favor recipients. Hear the inspiring story of how they were able to bribe government officials in various countries and then get privileged access to their commodities markets, and then flee the U.S. government when it indicted them in 1983, spend 17 years in exile, and then get pardoned by Bill Clinton.

All that and more coming up on GrubStaters. I think we disproportionately stop whites too much. I taught those kids lessons on product development and marketing and they taught me what it was like growing up feeling targeted for your race. I am proud to be gay. I am proud to be a Republican. You know, I went to a tough school in Queens,

and they used to beat up the little Jewish boys. You know, I love having the support of real billionaires. Hey, everybody, welcome to Grubstakers. It's Sean P. McCarthy here, joined as always by Steve Jeffers. Andy Palmer. Yogi Paliwal is out this week, which makes me the only Grubstakers cast member to have appeared in every single episode, confirming that I am in fact the Tony Soprano of this podcast. So good to be here, and we've got a very special episode about two billionaires, one of whom's deceased.

I'm the Pauly. Yeah. We have two billionaires for you today, Mark Rich and Pincus Green, who were— Mark Rich is, of course, the more well-known of the two, but they were very controversially pardoned by Bill Clinton when he left office in 2001. Steve's Bobby. Yeah. And we're talking about Mark Rich because the Clintons are back in the news this week.

I don't know if you heard the tragic story. Yogi's Chris. That the most efficient killing machine in American history has struck again. On July 10, Tuesday, a woman was found dead in the trash compactor outside of Huma Abedin's apartment that she shares with, or she used to share with Anthony Weiner. She was found dead in the trash compactor. And, you know, it's just... Was it a compactor or a dumpster? It was a trash compactor. Yeah. But it's, you know what it is, is the clintons they run the most efficient and elite and professional hit squad in the world and that's why

they dump the bodies outside of huma abdin's apartment because they are taunting you listener they know that you cannot stop them are you sure they weren't trying to escape a death star um she was she was found uh dead in the in the trash compactor And apparently, according to Fox News Who was part of the cover-up The New York Police Department has said that Surveillance video has shown the woman Laura Prykhodoko, whatever

Surveillance shows her trying to prop the compactor open With a giant beam While someone tries to communicate with their machine for an up top to stop it surveillance uh shows her um attempting to communicate with a u.s attorney damaging information on hillary clinton the department of wildlife is looking into any violations regarding the trash compactor's native squid monster. But basically, the New York Police Department, according to Fox News, has said that this woman was spotted on the 27th floor.

Last Jedi was a mistake. Stumbling out of the elevator, intoxicated, and it's believed, according to the official story, that she was drunk and she fell down this trash compactor or perhaps crawled in there for warmth or something, which, you know, not a very good way to die. But we all know the real story. This is just another one of the more than 50 people killed by Bill and Hillary Clinton on their relentless quest for power. It is my favorite conspiracy theory because we're supposed to believe that one of the most incompetent political operatives

of our time is the most elite mass murderer of probably recorded US history. I mean, look at Frank Underwood. If you were just looking at him as a politician, you'd probably think he was this bumbling fuck up because from the outside it looks like he can't get anything done but from the inside he can throw a journalist in front of a train but it is like uh it's fun to call the clintons murderers because you know i mean in some abstract sense of course they are if you want to look, let's say, the destruction of welfare in this country and the consequent rise in extreme poverty.

But it is just like one of those things that I guess people on the Internet latch on to because the reality is a little more complicated, but it annoys them and they're bad people. And we kind of want to talk about Mark Rich today because Mark Rich is pardoned by Bill Clinton and he's one of the most straightforward examples of this kind of insidious corruption that follows the Clinton family. And I guess we'll just kind of start

with a general biography of Mark Rich and then we'll talk about Pincus Green as well, and then we can kind of talk about, if we want, we can return to the Clinton body count, because that is the research I did yesterday. I did spend several hours yesterday documenting some of their most horrific murders, including comedian Sam Kinison was killed by Bill Clinton in 1992 because while he was on tour in 1990 in Arkansas, Bill Clinton and Sam Kinison partied after a show with two 16-year-old girls, and they used drugs and had sex with these underage women. And this is all fact, by the way. And then one of the girls died of an overdose,

and the other one was sworn to secrecy. But when Bill Clinton attended Bohemian Grove in 1991, the decision was made that she was a loose end. So she had to be killed, and then Sam Kinison, of course, had to be killed as well in 1992. And that's just all documented fact. Yeah, I want to get into the details of the evidence in that one, once we loop back to that. Just all documented fact. Yeah, I want to get into the details of the evidence in that one. Once we loop back to that.

Sam Kinison's last words were, It was Bill Clinton! Clinton crime family! But so yes, if we have time at the end, we can talk a bit more about the Clinton body count. But for now, let's just talk about the not quite as dangerous, but perhaps more mainstream accepted scandal of the pardon for Mark Rich. So Mark Rich was estimated by Forbes worth about a billion dollars as of 2010, but they even admitted that's probably a severe underestimate.

The U.S. House of Representatives, when they issued a report on him in 2001, they estimated his worth being up to $8 billion, but it's very hard to estimate because he's hidden hundreds of millions, if not billions, in Panamanian shell companies, among other places. So it's very hard to get an exact number on his net worth, but he's absolutely a billionaire, or he was. He died in 2013, aged 78 of a stroke, but he has two daughters who inherited that massive fortune that he accumulated, and we'll talk about them a bit at the end. But I guess we'll just start with kind of the biography of Mark Rich. And then most of this comes from the book Metal Men

by a journalist named Craig Kapaitis. The book Metal Men by a journalist named Craig Capetus. The book Metal Men is very interesting. I didn't read all of it, but I was able to get some fascinating insights. So going chronologically, Mark Rich born in Belgium, 1934. His family flees in 1940 because of a certain occupying army that was rapidly approaching Belgium. They moved to Kansas City. They opened a costume jewelry shop, I guess. And then they moved to New York City in 1950.

And Mark Rich attends NYU, but he drops out, and he gets a job with a company called the Philip Brothers in 1954, which was a commodity trading broker that would later be acquired by Solomon Brothers and subsequently Citigroup. But so he starts in 1954. He's working about for 60 bucks a week is his pay. So it's like let's say middle class upbringing, you know know like his family did have to flee the Nazis and they were relatively destitute after but they were able to quickly get themselves going and he gets a lucrative job in the 1950s economy and then just like an interesting thing from the book is apparently he acquired the his first first big trade was he got the rights

to most of the production of two of the largest mercury producers at the time because the United States government in the Korean War in 1950 to 53 had made huge demands for mercury. I'm not sure exactly why they needed mercury, but mercury was in high demand by various governments around the world and they were stockpiling it so mark rich's first like real

coup is he's able to uh corner the mercury market uh by striking the deal with these two producers and then selling it to various militaries and governments around the world. And then in 1958, he's trusted enough by the Philip brothers that they send him to Cuba. And this is right around the fall of the Batista regime. What do you think he cornered the haberdasher market? This is his first experiment with monopoly. I'm just like, do you have any theory? I'm sorry, I didn't look, but what do militaries use mercury for?

Probably subterfuge to get opposing governments, hatters driven insane. They use it to inject it into people who they will later need to kill Robert F. Kennedy. But so his company trusts him enough in 1958 to send him to Cuba. And as we mentioned, this is the fall of the Batista regime. This is the rise of Castro. And basically, he's able to cut a deal with Castro's incoming government that allows them to keep shipping nickel and copper off of the island.

And it's kind of here that another one of his partners says he learns to operate outside of U.S. law, so to speak. And that's very influential for him. Then he goes, Mark Rich goes to Bolivia, starts doing a bunch of deals in South America. He's kind of flying back and forth between Bolivia and NYC. And he meets his wife, the extremely talented songwriter, Denise Rich, in 1966. And she was the heir to the Florsheim fortune, which was apparently like one of the largest shoe fortunes in the United States. Again, extremely talented songwriter

who is blessing you with her insights right now. So let's see if you can find... Wait. Let's see if you can find a pattern. I like the idea of making a Mark Rich movie where he's like dealing oil to Saddam Hussein and Ayatollah Khomeini and this is the theme music. Oh, these songs are so much better if you imagine that they're all written about Mark Rich so this is Mandy Moore's Candy um the lyrics are intro give it to me oh oh yeah yeah yeah yeah oh oh yeah yeah yeah yeah give it to me give it to me oh yeah yeah yeah yeah now give it to me first one I'm so addicted to the loving that you're

feeding to me parentheses oh can't do without it this feeling's got me weak in the knees parentheses oh baby baby bodies and withdrawal every time you take it away parentheses oh can't you hear me calling begging you to come out and play parentheses oh yeah do you know how many illuminati hits were carried out when those lyrics were released on the radio with the amount of coded instructions in there what's great is we did the math and uh denise rich was about 55 when she wrote this song uh for teenagers here i made a playlist of her music here are the titles first one's frankie then there's candy then there's crazy love then i have loved you then it all begins with you living for love love is Crime, and then Come Together Now.

And what's really hard about searching for these songs is you have to always type in the performer's name because otherwise you'll get like 20 other songs with the exact same title. But for some reason, Mark Rich would later go on to have an affair behind the back of that brilliant and insightful songwriter

but we will return to Denise Rich who wrote Come Together Now One love, we can make a difference This is about 15 different horrific tragedies I believe This is about Columbine

the Indonesian hurricane Katrina different horrific tragedies, I believe. Yeah, this is about Columbine, the Indonesian hurricane, Katrina. Oh, the rising money fraud. Fukushima. Well, they did literally use it for both the Indian Ocean and Katrina. Like, the Indian Ocean tsunami happened, and I guess she started writing the song, and then Katrina happened.

She was like, yeah, that too. It's about that one too. I like the idea of writing a song for a tragedy and then releasing a remix edition every time there's another tragedy. I mean, these lyrics are so deep that

they can apply to any tragedy. Wait, Andy, slow it down. Seth Rich was murdered by the Clintons. Seth Rich was murdered by the Clintons. That they can apply to any tragedy. Wait, wait, Andy, slow it down. Slow it down. Seth Rich was murdered by the Clintons. Seth Rich was murdered by the Clintons. So in 66, he's married to Denise Rich. They would go on to divorce in 1991 due to Mark Rich's affair. Hey, Aaron Carter had some lines in this one.

But we're jumping ahead. And Nick Carter. In 1967, Mark Rich, the Philip brothers transfer him to Madrid, Spain, where he meets a guy named Pincus Green, who's another billionaire, and they would become lifelong partners. And they develop, according to multiple accounts, what's called the spot oil trading market. And I guess, Steve, if you would be able to give a brief summary of spot oil trading for our listeners. And for me, I don't know either. Well, it wasn't exactly clear from the article I read, but it sounds like prior to uh mark rich glencore and all of his involvement in the oil

trading business there wasn't really like a spot there wasn't a uh a market maker for people to buy or buy and sell oil at kind of market a market rate you know without knowing two or three brokers to get the deal done and so it used to just be like kind of a shadowy cabal of people um a shadowy a rootless click almost yeah that of like you know over-the-counter deals for millions and millions of barrels of oil at some future price so they're moving from like large futures contracts down to spot price where you can just buy and sell on like the consumer, like the retail level almost.

So like you could buy one barrel of oil? I don't know what retail level means for like a major commodity. Well, you know how nowadays there's like, you can go on e-trade and sell commodities now oh you didn't need it you you weren't able to do any of that so he created he created the market to for any any old dipshit like me to be like i think oil's going up with the opex and i can i can just go on e-trade and that's thanks to mark rich

and indirectly yeah can i is did mark rich allow me to like order a single dixie cup of oil to be delivered directly to my apartment if you want to take possession over um you know like a gallon so like they poured out a gallon of milk and they put oil in it. And you want to buy that? It's yours now. So what's the gain in creating a spot trading commodities market for something like oil?

I'm becoming the dumb guy from Planet Money. Isn't it just like less leverage or more leverage, I guess? You don't have to put as much collateral down, I guess? Yeah, like you need less capital in order to potentially in order to make a trade but probably more if you want to make serious money you also need to have more debt in order to fuel those trades yeah what so how does that work like um in order let's just call up Mark Rich and ask him.

Oh, wait, we can't. He's dead. Like in futures, if they're trading a futures contract, a lot of the leverage you'd need to make money on those deals is kind of built into the contract. Okay. Whereas with spot trading, it's kind of what you see is what you get. There's more sort of like a solid market

price to it and it allows people to take on debt or trade on margin in order to make a lot of money really quickly okay yeah oh so the the price is it becomes more economical okay for them to trade on margin in order to increase the risk but also the reward. And trading on margin is where you take out some debt to buy a stock and then if the stock goes up you can kind of pay back the debt with the stock increase. And the risk is if you don't pay it back you'll be thrown down a garbage compactor by the Clinton crime family. They seek huma habidin on you. I can't wait till the guy who made that Wiener documentary dies in mysterious circumstances.

The internet will be great that day um but so he uh uh him and pink is green set up this uh oil um spot mark spot oil market um and uh they make a lot of money and basically they want to raise from phillips brothers uh phillips brothers doesn't give it to them so they set out in 1973 pink is green and mark rich start mark rich ag which later becomes and is today still glencore a switzerland-based commodities trader and mark rich ag as it was called at the time was financed initially to commemorate their friend glenn glenn's a great guy let's name it glencore do you know who's a really just a the core of our friendship is glenn you know between the three of us i think glenn is the core um but so uh it was

financed initially um and again this is from the book Metal Men. But it was financed initially with a $2 million loan that Rich's father arranged through a Bolivian bank. And they didn't really get more specific than that. But it doesn't seem like his father gave him a $2 million loan as much as his father kind of set up the financing but another allegation in metal men and in the u.s house is that part of the reason they were able to maintain to get financing is because they had an uh an under the table deal from an iranian senator in the shah's government that they would have like no holds barred access to oil fields in iran because they had paid the senator off so i guess part of why the bolivian bank was able to was willing to extend them a $2 million line of credit was this guarantee that they would have all this Iranian oil at cut rate prices.

It's weird that the Shah government wasn't more beloved by its people. You know, like a running theme in Mark Rich's life is dealing with governments that are insanely popular among the populace they are ruling. And then giving them some money as a thank you for restoring democracy and free enterprise. But so they get this $2 million loan. They also get a million dollar cash injection from another Phillipsillips brothers trader who comes on board so it's you know um but you know pink is green and mark rich set up this company and uh they make a fair bit of money uh from 73 to 83 but 83 they start to run into legal trouble and there's a few different aspects to that but basically um in uh 79 they set up what's called a daisy chain scheme, which is part of the libertarian argument for why Mark Rich was the victim of overzealous prosecution.

During the oil crisis, the United States set up some regulations on oil prices, which basically said that certain kinds of oils could not be... There were three different price categories, and only one of those price categories allowed you to sell oil at the free market i think it was like smaller wells could be sold at free market but like large wells had like a price limit essentially so this daisy chain scheme they they set it up with the owners of a firm called west texas marketing which was an oil reseller in 79 mark rich meets the owners and they set up this firm and mark rich even arranges for uh west texas marketing to get a loan from uh the french bank parabas parabas yeah uh he arranges for them to get a loan so that they can operate at scale and basically what they

do is they um get this crude that's not supposed to be sold at market price and then they run it through like 50 different not 50 but several different shell companies and back and forth sales they had the help of legitimate businessman michael francis um and so gangster notorious for setting up uh gas scam that basically worked like this. Yeah, but... It was called the Yuppie Mobster, or the Yuppie Don. But I don't think it was a Don. Well, it's unfortunate... It's just a capo.

It's unfortunate that the Yuppie Don never met Al Gore's former chief of staff, or he might have been able to secure a pardon for himself. But we'll get to that. So basically... That's so basically all went down so they're uh they're they're running this um through west texas marketing they're uh selling oil above regulation that they shouldn't be selling and again we can argue about whatever legitimacy of that law but they're um what really gets them in trouble is they're uh funneling hundreds of millions of dollars through Panamanian shell corporations and avoiding taxes and all this stuff. And in 1980, the West Texas marketing guys, they get caught on another oil flipping operation, which, you know, it really shows just like how, you know, everything's bigger in Texas.

Even the frauds are like, you can't just do one fraud. You got to have two oil flipping frauds going at least with different partnerships that are totally unrelated. But so these guys get caught and then they meet with an attorney, Sandy Weinberg, who was that time with the Southern District of New York. And they essentially say, oh, we can give you Mark Rich if you guys give us a sweetheart deal. And then this is the first time anybody's heard, or at least in the Southern District's office, had heard of Mark Rich and his enterprise.

Because of a dirty fucking rat. Basically. Oh, and so the other thing that happens around this time is um by the way uh a series of shell companies like a daisy chain of shell companies where it's one that is you know taking on the debt or whatever of another and another and another seems to have inspired the denise rich lyrics give it to me oh oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah she's like oh you repeat things and that way you can create the illusion of a legitimate work signs are everywhere yeah um i like the idea of like um her her fucking auto-tune being sent through a variety of different shell companies but so in uh 1979 i believe jessica simpson was probably auto-tuned she wrote i've

loved you by just buy it quote jessica simpson um in the music business if you uh musicians are credited as co-writers and the uh the uh way that they talk about that is write a word get a third wait so the song is called i love you i have loved you i have loved you and that was dedicated to the apartheid government in south africa that mark rich made a billion dollars selling oil to yes and it's sung by jessica simpson um but so in uh 1979 is the iranian revolution and as we first line is remember that blue crystal sky you know south africa is known for its gemstones uh so in uh 1979 um is the iranian revolution and we mentioned the um

uh the the sweetheart deal they had struck with a senator in Iran. And so the Iranian revolution complicates it, and it really complicates it because Jimmy Carter and the Congress pass a law after the American hostages are taken that say it's illegal to deal with the Iranian government. And Mark Rich ignores this

and is in fact setting up a deal to send small arms to Iran in the Iranian government. And Mark Rich ignores this and is in fact setting up a deal to send small arms to Iran in exchange for oil. And I get that some of our leftist listeners might not think dealing with the Iranian government is particularly bad, but he was also double dealing the Iranian government to Mossad at the time and helping Mossad set up contacts

within the Iranian government. That is the Israeli covert forces. Just for anyone who doesn't know. Yes. It's the organization that has not been involved in any kind of operations in downtown Manhattan around the year 2001. Tower 7. Look it up.

Google Tower 7 is the theme of the podcast but no one no one gets all like conspiratorial about the hilton that was crushed under the towers what if there's something important there what if they were going the other paris hilton sex tape i had to take it out because it was just too graphic they they hit it would have made her too famous in the hotel great found footage horror movie um but so they set up this deal where they're like giving you know small arms and stuff to the iranian government in exchange for oil during the embargo because of the hostage crisis so this is the other thing they get hit on and so um basically uh they start uh in 1982, Mark Rich, Pincus Green, and their company, I believe it's called, yeah, Mark Rich International was the U.S. branch of this.

And in 1982, they start getting subpoenas from a federal grand jury, which is basically telling them to turn over documents related to this stuff. And so it's kind of funny um because it was incorporated as a swiss company um they just ignored these subpoenas and his lawyers kept telling the u.s government that like because it's a swiss company we don't have to comply with these subpoenas and they were able to do that for almost two years when so yeah in september, the Justice Department starts, the jury, the grand jury starts fining him $50,000 a day for contempt because he's not turning over these documents. And they appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. And then in June 1983, the Supreme Court orders him to start paying and he pays more than $19 million in fines. But I do just like that it's like when you're a billionaire you just get

to wait for the supreme court to rule on your case yeah you get the uh rocket docket directly to the nine you don't get you don't have to like just you don't get to take your uh parking tickets to the supreme court if you're just like a regular person like i was there at the off times i like the idea like he was like any other defendant and he was like you know forced to take a guilty plea because he was relying on like a public defender who didn't have time yeah 20 other cases um you want to know something really cute what's that i uh mentioned that that to one of my coworkers. Since I used to know a public defender and I said like, yeah, you know, oftentimes even if someone's innocent, they have to negotiate a guilty plea just because they don't have time to take on all the cases. And the risk is too big for because of prosecutorial. Ownage.

Ownage. They'll also have like they're at risk of a much, much longer sentence. Um, just because of, uh, prosecutors requests. And so I,

I told all that to this one guy and, uh, I work with, and he was just like flabbergasted. He was like, that is, they can't do that. It is unconstitutional.

And I'm like, yeah, you're right. But that's what happens. And he's like, but they can't do that and i'm like they do they're not the yeah congratulations on finding out the legal system's broken today that's like when i found out that bill clinton took half a million for his library

and more than 1.1 million dollars in campaign contributions to pardon this guy like you can't just take money in such an explicit manner to give criminal pardons out they can't do that oh god um that is undemocratic uh it's funny like so there's a house report on this and so we'll kind of get to it but uh bill clinton at various points referred to wanting to create quote the most ethical administration in history and he might have just missed the mark a little bit on that um but so uh no he just found another mark but so the other part guys the the mark rich story like i admire the balls on this guy i will say because not only do they like spend you know a year and a half refusing to turn over documents and then just like pay the fine like it was nothing uh but then the other scheme he comes

up with is mark rich sells mark rich international which was the U.S. branch of this company, they sell it to a new company called Claridon LTD with the same employees, same address, same board of directors, bank credit guaranteed by Mark Rich. And it was an attempt to convince the U.S. government that Mark Rich International didn't exist anymore. Because they just essentially sold the company to a company with the exact same everything like they won't they won't check for me if i change the name on the door with the same address yeah who who gets fooled by that maybe they were fishing for a technicality like when

when we're talking about Ken Langone, when they dropped the case because suddenly they changed the New York Stock Exchange to for-profit. Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, I guess he should have just waited another 20 years for the complete corruption of the New York judiciary to take place. But yes, no, unfortunately the judge didn't buy that. But I do like the idea of him being like, well, so our next case is Mark Rich International. What?

It doesn't exist anymore. I guess we got to close the case now. Everybody go home. But so they try that scheme and then the other thing they do in august 1983 irs agents stop a plane at jfk which was headed for zurich switzerland uh and they uh they detain a female paralegal who worked for mark rich who had uh two steamer trunks full of documents that had been subpoenaed and that mark rich had promised to turn over. What are steamer trunks? Oh, it's like those old

luggage trunks. I'll show you a picture. Oh, that you see in people in old movies carrying on trains? Yeah, basically. Yeah, like these things. I guess they were called because on steamer ships back in the day, people would bring all their belongings in these steamer trunks. But yes, that's what

tipped off the IRS is that somebody in 1983 was using this suitcase that hadn't been seen since 100 years ago. I mean, I get the feeling that it's just kind of regular protocol for the IRS to search the plane to Zurich.

Every day. Alright, let's get this over with. You never know what you'll find in these steamer trunks. Yeah. every day. All right, let's get this over with. But yeah. You never know what you'll find in these steamer trucks. Yeah. It's like, they're just like, oh, I guess it's just Nazi gold in this steamer trunk.

We better let it go through. Not what we're looking for here. The IRS boards and like half the plane commits suicide we've been discovered um but so uh and as we mentioned august 1983 the irs agents stopped the plane they grab all these documents that they were trying to like smuggle out to switzerland and so um switzerland of course the extremely ethical country that that has done nothing wrong in its history and is, of course, very reliable for these kinds of financial fraud prosecutions. The Swiss government...

They can't do anything wrong. They put on fun costumes and guard the Pope with pikes. They make the Pope's jewelry with certain shipments they received throughout the 1940s um so they're neutral yes the swiss government is very neutral so they um the swiss government protests on behalf of mark rich they say this is you know like politically motivated uh and of course this is because mark rich at this point his company uh what would become glencore in switzerland is a major taxpayer in switzerland and of course after he was indicted um the contemporary new york times quoted a swiss

official saying that the extradition treaty with the united states with uh switzerland in the united states did not cover tax matters because tax evasion was not a crime in Switzerland. So I guess from a foreign... Signed extraditable. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, offense. Nor the official edit from the New York Times does the treaty cover the act of trading with an enemy,

which was another thing Mark Rich was eventually indicted for. Interestingly enough, he was also a major supplier to the Soviet Union, and one of the Soviet state media papers had a story calling this Reagan's blackmail, saying it was an attempt to interfere in the affairs of Western European countries through the threat of economic sanctions. And interestingly enough— So wait, he was trading with the Soviet Union, but then the

Soviet papers were anti-Mark Rich. No, no, no. They were pro-Mark Rich. They said this was a blackmail attempt by the Reagan administration, and they were attempting to interfere in the affairs of Western European countries through the threat of economic sanctions. Okay. Yes. And interestingly enough, one of Mark Rich's deals with the soviets involved uh sending oil to apartheid era south africa as it was under un sanctions and then i guess getting uranium from them that he sent back to the soviet union um he was also a major supplier of soviet grain and other stuff well you're saying that he dealt uranium to Russia and is a friend of Hillary Clinton. I'm just saying, we better investigate the stroke he had in 2013 because I'm not really convinced by the official story.

Sounds like he's like a Civ II player. He knows that he's lost early on in the game. Yeah. And so he just goes into wild trading sessions with Gandhi for his nuclear weapons. That's why he dealt so much with communist governments because he knew they didn't get a war penalty when they invade Afghanistan.

But so in September 1983, the Southern District of New York, which at the time, Rudy Giuliani was the head attorney, but he was essentially the which at the time, Rudy Giuliani was the head attorney, but he was essentially the guy at the press conference. Sandy Weinberg was the attorney at the Southern District of New York who was the lead prosecutor on this case. And then he compiles the indictment. It's filed September 1983. And Rudy Giuliani is the guy who like gets on the press conference and, you know, makes a name for himself and later goes on to be mayor. But so in 1983, Mark Rich and his partner, Pincus Green,

are indicted on 51 counts, including tax evasion, trading with the enemy, violating the oil price regulations we mentioned earlier. And at this point, they flee. They both flee to Switzerland along with their families. Essentially, they spend about 17 years hiding out in Switzerland. And then there's just kind of like fun stories. Oh, interestingly enough. Wait, did Denise go with them?

Yes. Initially, Denise went with her husband to Switzerland. indictment was apparently they devised secret telex codes to transmit details of the oil deals with kumeni during the hostage crisis I guess I don't know exactly how that would work maybe I'll just cut this

no let's get into telex which wife do you think Giuliani was on during this but so uh you think one of his wives divorced him because she was friends with the mob and didn't like what he did to them for anyone who wants to see the extended 45 minute discussion of different models of tell x that's going to be on the patreon this is our patreon our bonus episode is reading the wikipedia of telex while we're supposed to be recording all right so mark rich uh uh they have these secret codes for the deals with kumene during

the hostage crisis um but they flee wait hold on the telex network was a public switch network of teleprinters similar to a telephone network for the purposes of sending text-based messages. Hmm. I wonder if that technology is going to catch on. For the purposes of transmitting arms for oil deals with regimes that are sanctioned by the U.S. government. government but so in 1984 it was about a year after the indictment the company mark rich ag pleads guilty to 38 counts of tax invasion 50 million in illegal oil profits the telex term refers to the network not the teleprinters point-to-point teleprinter systems had been in use long before telex exchanges were built in the 1930s go on sean i like the idea of like somebody

being like really autistic about telex and just gets like so angry that they would abuse this beautiful technology to commit illegal acts and violate u.s sanctions there's one apartment probably within like a three mile radius of where we're recording that someone just has like 30 different models of telex printers uh yeah it's pink is green he was born in flatbush they ran the telex transmissions out of his flatbush apartment we're at grub stakers south yeah today we're at a new grub stakers location and we've got this lovely little boy named uh leon who you might hear meowing in the background and he seems like a perfect gentleman. So in 84 Mark Rich AG pleads guilty to 38 counts this is the business itself pleads guilty to 38 counts tax evasion illegal oil profits

making false statement to the US government. And that company went to jail. Yeah they pay a hundred and $133 million in fines. But fun side note about this. Mark Rich was actually, I think with another partner, the 50% owner of 20th Century Fox at this point. And because the U.S. government is coming after the company, the U.S. government could have conceivably seized 20th Century Fox. So Mark Rich has to sell 20th Century Fox to Rupert Murdoch. And the story of how Rupert Murdoch came to control 20th Century Fox is

one gentleman decided to sell Iran some guns when he shouldn't have done that. And that's the story of how a massive propaganda empire developed in the United States of America. Super Murdoch was like, well, I'm gonna make a whole channel that talks about how another guy who sold

guns is the greatest human being to walk the planet. That's how we got the Simpsons. Rupert Murdoch is like, uh, well, I paid $133 million for this time to put a sex predator in charge. A friend of Rachel Madddow's a close personal friend uh but so um that's how it all went down

uh so uh the the the firm pleads guilty uh they pay this 133 million dollar fine but the indictments and the warrants for mark rich and pink is green are still outstanding they make various attempts to like negotiate with the government but the government won't like take jail off the um the table i think the government was offering them like a three-year jail sentence in exchange for like cooperating and pleading guilty and they were like no we don't want to do a day in jail so they stay in switzerland and then there's just a couple little cute attempts to arrest them like an 87 Interpol issues a red notice warrant that requests both their arrests if they're seen within Interpol countries and so like one operation this is from the house report on the

Mark Rich pardon in fall of 80S. Marshals assigned to the project barely missed apprehending Rich in France after he canceled a meeting with an African oil minister. Then a few months later, November 87, they again almost captured him. They were tipped off by a businessman close to Rich that Rich would be taking a private plane to England

for a weekend party. The U.S. Marshals set a trap for Rich at the airport in Kent. However, thick fog settled in over London and Rich's plane turned back to Switzerland. So he was saved by London fog.

He liked the jackets? What was the trap? Was it an oil commodities note inside a bear trap? The trap was under, under a big box with a stick. The trap was, they were going to shout gun and shoot him a hundred times and then plant

something on him. Um, but so, uh, you know, he's kind of trying to plant cocaine and they're like, wait, he's,

there's already too much cocaine. He's on the lamb, uh, along with to plant cocaine. And they're like, wait, he's there's already too much cocaine. He's on the lam along with Pincus Green. And then his partner, Pincus Green, is another billionaire. And there's not that much information on him online. But he's kind of like the the lieutenant, if you will. And he is still alive. He was born 1934 right here in Flatbush, Brooklyn. He's Orthodox Jewish. So he doesn't work on Sabbath, you know, sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

And Forbes, as of 2005, had him at a $1.2 billion net worth. And just like random facts about him, he was called the admiral at this firm because he had a, quote, encyclopedic knowledge of shipping and freight rates, which were important in the trade of bulk commodities, according to the New York Daily News. He was the Admiral. That seems like a low bar for a nickname like the Admiral. Knowing how much shit costs. Yeah.

That's something admirals are differently. Yeah. That's something admirals are differently. Yeah. He was called the admiral for his work sinking the flotilla going into the West Bank. He was called the admiral for taking massive bribes in Southeast Asia and inspiring a culture of corruption that's still being unraveled in the United States Navy. But so like Mark Rich, he was a college dropout. He was one of eight children in Flatbush, again, to an Orthodox Jewish family.

He helped his father sell candy, confectionaries is the New York Daily News term, to small candy stores. And he started in the mailroom of Phillips Brothers. And then, of course, he meets Mark Rich. Candyman would have been a much better nickname. The candy. He meets Mark Rich in Madrid, where they developed the spot oil market. Oh, yeah. And he later, according to New York Daily News, in late 1990, he had a heart bypass operation operation and then he retired from what

would become Glencore so he kind of stepped back from the business in 1990 he missed out on their later action in Russia oh and it's it say that last thing again how he missed out on their later action in Russia when he retired in 1990 I'll be right back there was Kelly there, I'm Chris Hayes from MSNBC. Thanks for watching MSNBC. But so he had kind of like a less audacious lifestyle than Mark Rich. Mark Rich, like, had, when he was in the U.S., he had, according to New York Daily News,

a huge East Side apartment filled with Picassos, whereas Green lived in a modest home in Flatbush. And the quote from the article is, if you look at 500 homes in Flatbush, 250 of them were nicer than Pinky's. And we're very happy to be here recording in Flatbush in a home nicer than a fugitive billionaire. This was actually Pinky's apartment. On the first floor stairwell, there was human poop in the corner.

Seriously? Yeah. I the corner. Seriously? Yeah. Seriously? Yeah. All right, leave this in. But the lobby's quite nice. I like these. Please be a dog.

It costs $2,500 a month to live here. It looked like human poop. It looked like someone came in the lobby. All right. God. Cut it out. and poop it looked like someone came in the the lobby and all right god so yeah if you don't know anyone who needs a room here um but so uh eric holder um comes into this uh in uh in the 1990s so basically to kind of summarize this story uh ericer was the Deputy Attorney General for Bill Clinton,

and he comes off really bad in this story. But basically, Jack Quinn was Al Gore's chief of staff up to 1997. He then leaves, goes back to the private sector. And then an interesting thing happens where Mark Rich, after he's not able to get the Israeli government to successfully intercede on his

to successfully intercede on his behalf he changes strategies he hires a pr consultant named gershwin uh kexet i guess of uh 4chan fame um so kexet uh he he uh he in late 1998 it's again from the u.s house uh kexets is like sitting next to eric holder at a dinner celebrating the merger of um ben's and chrysler uh you know those those dinners they have to uh celebrate the um uh elimination of competition within the u.s economy um but so in 1998 they're at this dinner. And he was starting the conversation the way everyone starts a conversation with him, which is, what the fuck kind of name is Gershwin?

He started the conversation by going, praise Keck. So at the dinner, Keck said, asked Eric Holder whom U.S. attorneys are accountable to holder explained that they answered to main justice where holder worked kexet had mark rich in mind but did not mention mark rich's name at the time kexet then asked uh uh holder what someone should do if they were improperly indicted by an overzealous prosecutor holder told him that a person in that situation should try to work it out and resolve it. Further stating that, quote, lawyers know there is a path back to DOJ to me.

Holder told Keckset that such a person should hire a lawyer who knows the process. He comes to me and we work it out. Keckset asked who such a lawyer would be and Holder pointed to an individual sitting at a nearby table and said, there's Jack Quinn. He's a perfect example. And so Jack Quinn, as we mentioned, was Al Gore's former chief of staff and Holder basically told a stranger that if you have a problem, you should hire that guy and he'll come to me and we'll work it out. So of course, Mark Rich gets Jack Quinn on a $50,000 a month retainer to lobby Eric Holder and Bill Clinton for a pardon on the way

out. And Eric Holder, according again to this House report, the most credible explanation they come up with is Eric Holder wanted to be the attorney general for Al Gore. And again, Jack Quinn was his former chief of staff, would theoretically have Al Gore's ear. So Jack Quinn starts lobbying him for this Mark Rich pardon. And Holder's like, oh, OK, so I could get my attorney general job if I get this pardon done. So Holder lobbies Bill Clinton directly and they kind of bypass the entire usual pardon process, whereby usually the U.S. attorneys who prosecuted the case, in this case the Southern District of New York, are supposed to look at the pardon and, you know, make recommendations. The Justice Department is supposed to review it, and it's supposed to go through all these different levels, and they basically cut out, like, everybody. And then it did not hurt that

Denise Rich, at this point Mark Rich's ex-wife, but they had since reconciled, had donated more than $1.1 million to Democrats throughout the 90s and early 2000s and donated $450,000 to Bill Clinton's library. Exchanging for modern campaign contribution, non-limits, that's probably the equivalent of five billion dollars. But I guess if we could just play this audio drop of Jack Quinn, again, Al Gore's former chief of staff, hired by Mark Rich for fifty thousand a month retainer. He was this pardon was controversial. So he was called to testify. And he says this

about Eric Holder's role. On the Monday following the pardon, Mr. Holder told me that he had said to the White House counsel he was neutral leaning towards favorable on the pardon. I had a subsequent conversation with the White House counsel and I said to her that Mr. Holder had told me that. Her response to me, while not confirming his advice in so many words, was if Mr. Holder hadn't participated in the process of something to this effect, this pardon wouldn't have happened. I had a... One of the great things about this video, it's a shame people can't see it because he's staring,

like his eyes are looking straight up and he's just kind of wobbling and like a weird, like a puppet. He looks a little like he's about to vomit. But it is interesting that um eric holder was of course uh uh castigated uh in this open hearing by the house for his role in this pay to play pardon and it of course destroyed his political career oh yeah and he was uh never invited back uh to become attorney general that he so desperately wanted to be but i do just like that it's like i mean i have no idea what the fuck newspapers obama read before appointing this guy

attorney general where he's like oh yeah so he's uh took a pay-to-play deal for uh the most controversial part in in modern presidential history and uh he also helped um chiquita brands get away with literal murder of union organizers. But that's the kind of change that we want to bring to Washington. We want to make it even worse. Obama's first term was largely defined by the fact that after he made peace with Hillary Clinton, etc., Secretary of State, he didn't have as deep of Washington connections as the Clintons. And so they had a lot of uh the voice and

who would fill out obama's cabinet and so holder was almost definitely like handpicked by the clintons yeah he comes in the first thing he does is shut down the investigation into the murder of sam kinnison um but so uh there's just there's just no evidence there, if there were evidence, we would prosecute it, but there was no evidence. Bill Clinton later... That's what he said about the banks. Bill Clinton later said of the pardon, quote,

It was terrible politics. It wasn't worth the damage to my reputation. And he also later blamed the Israeli government for interceding because... Bill Clinton's sterling reputation. Basically, as we mentioned, the Israeli government had lobbied on behalf of Mark Rich because he had done work for the Mossad in Iran and such. But I am sure the massive donations to the Clinton Library and the more than a million

dollars donations to Clinton and Associated Democrats had nothing to do with the process. So what do you think Bill Clinton calls all the sexual harassment charges against him? Just bad politics? I think he calls them consensual affairs with his employees, just like anybody would do. Oh, and then, and so Holder also later distanced himself from the pardon, saying it was, quote, was the result of poor judgment, initially not recognizing the seriousness of the rich case. And then by the time that he recognized that the pardon was being considered, being distracted by other matters. And again, this is the guy, Eric Holder, lobbied Bill Clinton directly and then subverted the entire traditional pardon process to get this done. He's a much more sophisticated Alberto Gonzalez.

Like Alberto Gonzalez just had one line. Yeah, I do not recall. But Holder clearly grew up with a thesaurus. So it's kind of unfortunate that we're running long on this because I do just kind of want to give an overview of Mark Rich's various dealings. Just according to Slate, quote, he had a habit of dealing with nations with which trade was embargoed, like Iran, Libya, Cuba, and apartheid South Africa. And from the House report, a former mark rich trader explained the standard practices of

richest companies as follows to go into places like iran and do honest business is naive naive i'd figure 15 of your net in payoffs for every deal made so basically 15 of every deal that mark rich was making was going back to bribes and government officials. And there's just like a bunch of little fun stories. In 1978, Rich and Green were caught diverting Nigerian oil shipments to apartheid South Africa. When the Nigerians threatened to cut off relations with Rich, he paid a $1 million bribe to the Nigerian transport minister to get the contract back. He paid the Jamaican president $45,000 to send the Jamaican track and field team

to the 1984 Olympics. And in return, he was given a 10-year agreement to purchase an aluminum contract in Jamaica from an aluminum plant. And then, you know, he was essentially like, as we mentioned, he was dealing with Iran, giving them guns for oil. He was, according to this House report, he supplied about 6% of all oil imports to South Africa between 79 and 86, earning upwards of their indictment in the u.s rich and green uh were trading soviet and iranian oil to the apartheid government in south africa in exchange for let's try that stay with us in exchange for hey there i'm chris hayes from msnbc thanks for watching in exchange for uranium which they in turn sold back to the soviet union um they were also like involved we mentioned on the olig daripaska episode, Glencour's role in stripping assets from the collapsed Soviet Union and

the chaos that went into Russia. And in fact, we also mentioned We'll be right back. We also mentioned Glencour's ties to Russian organized crime. We'll be right back. So again, from the House report, according to press accounts,

law enforcement agencies, including the FBI and CIA, had information indicating that Mark Rich had financial ties to the Russian mafia. According to one U.S. intelligence source who spoke to the press, quote, There's no such thing as a mafia. Quote, Bill Clinton would have found out about the relationship if he had bothered

to ask either the FBI or CIA. And then another source told the press that Rich had been linked specifically to... It's too bad the president has no connection to those agencies. Mark Rich had been linked specifically to Mikkel Schorneu. And Talia Levin is not here to correct my pronunciation, so that's the way it is properly pronounced. But so basically,

he actually, Mark Rich, provided the seed money necessary to start up what was called Trans World Medals, which was, again, a front organization for the Russian mafia where they used... Watch this space mafia where they used a lot of space where they used murder and intimidation to buy up at gunpoint

aluminum supplies of the rapidly collapsing I was a trans metal band and so he also I thought it was a front organization for trans world airlines when they quote went out of business and then gave black market flights. That's my conspiracy. It was actually a front organization for trans-exclusionary radical feminists to launder their ill-gotten gains from their placards that, you can only be a biological woman. Anyways, Mark Rich is also linked to a guy named Grigory Luchansky, who's a Georgian-born Israeli citizen, who's another significant player in Russian mob activities.

And according to press accounts, he worked with Mark Rich in the early 90s selling Russian oil and aluminum from formerly state-run enterprises. He's also been accused of, quote, drug trafficking and smuggling nuclear weapons. But, yeah, so basically, because Mark Rich had all these contacts with the Soviet Union, when the Soviet Union collapsed and there was like a mad dash for Russia's commodity resources, he was kind of a go-to guy from all these international firms looking to get into the stripping of a rapidly collapsing economy. So he's had a lot of interesting deals. You mean rapidly liberated capitalist economy. I like the idea of there being an inverse relationship between freedom and GDP growth in the Soviet Union.

Like as the standard of as the PPP goes down the freedom goes up. You don't want to see this PP going down. Life expectancy trapped pretty close to GDP. And again, just to kind of skip ahead, but they've been linked to Muammar Gaddafi in Libya.

Hell yeah. They were linked to Cuscu, or whatever his name is, in Romania. Was he his black market sunglasses supplier? Yes. Did you just say Cuscu? Cuscu? Cecescu? Cecescu.

Okay. Jesus. We are never going to have a Romanian on this podcast. I refuse to have my pronunciation corrected. But yes, of course, the Romanian dictator who was later executed by his populace. He was linked to a deal with Serbia while they were in the middle of committing what has been called a genocide. And he was also linked to the dictatorship in Angola.

And there was just a funny story where various Western oil executives were called to a meeting with Angola's oil agents. Expecting a group of communist officials, the executives were, quote, visibly stunned when the communist representative who walked into the conference room turned out to be Pinky Green,

greeting Exxon executives with a hearty, how you doing? And that's from the House report on this. But so I guess we should maybe talk a bit about Denise Rich and then the daughters and then we can wrap up. Do you need some background music? So Denise Rich, we mentioned earlier was the uh famous songwriter um i will say this for denise rich she's good at uh percussive lyrics like she can get all the syllables on the beats all right so not everyone can do

so according to the house report um she was the daughter of emile eisenberg who founded desco incorporated one of the largest shoe manufacturers in the united states so she was the heir to that fortune and then in 66 at the age of 22 she marries mark rich uh who she had met six months earlier um she fled to switzerland with him and then while in exile she began her musical career um you know uh the way everyone does by uh marrying into and inheriting eight billion dollars but so she becomes she begins her musical career while in exile in Switzerland with her husband. And then according to this house report, in approximately 1990, Denise discovered that Mark Rich had taken up with a younger woman, model Gisela Rossi. In 91, Denise divorced Mark Rich in the ensuing legal battle.

She got a settlement believed to be about $500 million. They weren't on speaking terms. However, in 1996, one of their daughters, Gabrielle, dies of AML leukemia. Mark Rich is not able to go to the funeral in the United States because he was a fugitive from justice. But this kind of has a reconciliation. And as we mentioned, in the 90s, is a a big fundraiser for the democratic party and bill clinton specifically you know what she said just uh to mark rich when they got divorced i have loved you

uh but so just by jessica simpson uh so a fun story is after her divorce uh denise returns to New York and purchases what is reportedly the largest penthouse on Fifth Avenue, a 28-room triplex full of art by Picasso, Dali, Warhol, etc., as well as a staff of 20 servants, including, quote, two cooks, a stylist, and a, quote, personal healer. Because, you know, when you've cashed those checks from Muammar Gaddafi, you need a personal healer. And then they gave, Denise Rich and her daughters gave more than $1.1 million to federal political causes between 93 and 2000, all but 5,000 of which was to Democrats.

And then they gave $450,000 to Bill Clinton's library. And she describes having a very close relationship with Bill Clinton. So who knows? So when Mark died, they were separated. But she and Mark both gave to Democrats separately. No, it's believed that he was able to launder his contributions to Democrats through her. And she apparently, according to this House report, lobbied Bill Clinton directly at least three times to pardon her husband. Her ex-husband, I should say.

And they have two daughters. You know what they say. Yes. Love is a crime. By Anastasia. They had two daughters. You know what they say. Yes. Love is a crime by Anastasia. They had two daughters, Danielle Rich and Ayanna Rich. And if I could just read something about the daughters, because they are, of course, still alive. They're still on, one of them still on Facebook, and they are the inheritors of this Mark Rich fortune. So they are really the billionaires at the subject of this episode.

And just a little bit about them from the website, from the website dailyentertainmentnews.com, a little bit about them. Ayanna Rich was the couple's first child, born in Madrid in 1967 she's immersed herself in both art and fashion having lost her sister to leukemia she serves as a board member of Gabriel's angel foundation which is named for her sister who passed away in 96 the 46 year old is well known for her fresh bearded

sculptures and paintings. She is a graduate of the Parsons School of Design in Paris and has made her name for herself in both the United States and Europe. She created a line of clothing entitled Size 6 to complement her new artwork being shown by the gallerist Gracie Manchin. Rich's art has been praised as an alternative reality where everything is larger than life and what is normal is usually Off kilter now I know why modern Sculptures are so bad it's because everyone who can

Break through is like the child of A billionaire I like she operates In a her art operates in An alternative reality where you're able To petition the president directly To get your father pardoned You know what that's called?

Yeah. Living for love. She is the mom, Ayanna is the mom of four young sons, and she married a man named Kenny Schachter who has been curating contemporary art exhibits in museums and galleries for in excess of 20 years. And I like that this article refers to her husband as a quote art entrepreneur and do you know what an art entrepreneur does they marry a billionaire but oh it just like one

other fun thing is I found Iona Rich's Facebook I'll put it on the tumblr before she shuts it down but the one public post that she made in January 7, 2014, Ayanna Rich writes, quote, they should take Dennis Rodman's passport away and make him live in North Korea. Let's see how many piercings he can have there

and let's see what asshole, and she spells asshole, A-S-S-W-H-O-L-E. And let's see what asshole spew, and she spells that wrong too, that comes out of his mouth. They accept before he is sent to be eaten by a pack of wolves.

And this is, of course, when Dennis Rodman is visiting the hermit kingdom of North Korea. And do you know what might have enabled Dennis Rodman's visit to North Korea would be her father's oil deals with Kim Il-sung of North Korea. It seems like she has to learn to come together now. I just like that it's like,

you know, she loved her father so much that she never Googled him. And then they're also the younger daughter is Danielle Rich. She lives in London. She was a former actress. Daniela has been involved in film for a number of years and has had role in Steve Buscemi's Trees Lounge and Sofia Kapila's The Virgin Suicides. She's an avid writer and has recently undertaken the production of a series of articles and a novel. And she is involved in charitable foundations,

particularly with regard to Israel. And we should mention that both Mark Rich and Mr. Green, his partner, gave more than $100 million in charitable donations to various causes and museums in Israel because they are very comfortable dealing with apartheid regimes. for not being grateful enough for the pardon. Mark Rich's estranged son, Seth Rich, was murdered by the Clintons in 2016. And then at gunpoint... Even after he was able to come back into the family and disregard his bastard name.

And then... Seth Snow. And then even more horrifying is after after the Clintons lost the election they still went out there and made his parents

at gunpoint write in the Washington Post that their son did not have access to leak the Podesta emails because they feared for their lives so we mentioned

at the beginning of the episode that a woman was found dead outside of Huma Abedin's apartment. And as we mentioned, Fox News has reported that she was unfortunately intoxicated and probably fell into the trash compactor. But I would just like you to note, listener, that her ex-husband was a business associate of George Soros.

So take with that what you will and draw your own conclusions but all i'm saying is that bill clinton and hillary clinton have murdered at least 50 people who have been tied to them in mysterious deaths the clintons run the most elite hit squad in the world the hit squad has consulted on the hitman video games it's not widely acknowledged but square enix has reached out to the hillary clinton hit team for level design ideas in fact if you go back and you play hitman 2 contracts there is a body disposal where you have to dump somebody down a garbage chute in an apartment building. So they knew. These are all things that have been planned. They murdered Sam Kinison, Vince Foster, Ed Wiley.

A White House intern was shot to death in a Starbucks in 1997 to prevent her from talking about the Monica Lewinsky scandal. And, of course, Seth Rich. I'm Andy Palmer. Steve Jeffers. All right, I'm Sean McCarthy. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with Yogi next week.