Grubstakers - Episode 64: Larry Ellison

Episode Date: May 2, 2019

This week we're talking about mega billionaire deadbeat Larry Ellison. Hear all about how the CIA put him in business, how his crappy database software became ubiquitous thanks to his government backing, how he almost destroyed his company with shady accounting practices, and why people are so mad at him on seekingarrangements.com. If this episode is buggy and of low quality don't worry we'll patch it later. It's what Larry would have wanted.

This week on Grubstakers, we're talking about Larry Ellison, one of the ten richest men in the world. Hear all about how he made his fortune selling a buggy database software that doesn't actually work, committing a little bit of mild accounting fraud, insider trading, and then screwing his employees and people he had contractual arrangements with out of money they deserve. All that and more coming up on GrubStakers. I've always had a thing for black people. I like black people. These stories are funnier than the jokes you can tell. I said, what the fuck is a brain scientist? I was like, that's not a real job. Tell me the truth.

But anyway. Don't solve these things. In five, four, three, two, one. Good night and good luck. This is Grubstakers, the podcast about billionaires. I'm joined here by my friends. Yogi Poliwog. Good morning.

I'm Andy Palmer. Steve Jeffers. And this week, we're talking about Larry Ellison. According to Forbes, the number seven richest man in the world, worth about, as of April 2019, $66.8 billion. And if you don't happen to know who Larry Ellison is, you're in for a bit of a treat. Because if I were to describe Larry Ellison, I would say John McAfee with 10% less cocaine. And that 10% is the key difference between being worth $60 billion and being a fugitive on the run for multiple homicides.

This is on key. Larry Ellison is a sociopath, a psychopath, a compulsive liar. He told one of the early programmers, he said, quote, we can't be successful unless we lie to customers, unquote. At least he's honest.

Yeah. But he's like built this empire. Like how is he worth 66 billion? Well, it's the fact that the Oracle database technology that mainly these other programmers, partly him, but mainly these others, came up with in the late 70s, early 80s, has spread so far and wide that most every e-commerce site today, such as, you know, Amazon, Expedia and all these others, they use his database technologies. And that's how he's worth $66 billion. And I guess what I would say is the two main sources for this episode, the two biographies about Larry Ellison, the one's called The Difference Between God and Larry Ellison by Mike Wilson, and the other one's called Everyone Else Must Fail by Karen Southwick.

And they're both fine i recommend them but i cannot recommend the biography called soft war by matthew simons uh because the author literally destroyed evidence to protect larry ellison from an insider trading lawsuit yeah he uh a judge it's true sean gave him a one-star review a judge into larry ellison did uh insider trading he pleaded guilt i mean he paid a fine but he pleaded guilty to this back in 2001 he did it um and then in 2008 a judge ruled that uh both he had destroyed email evidence uh of him committing these acts and his biographer had destroyed taped interviews and other notes wow that would possibly implicate him in that act. And I do just want to shout that guy out

because it really takes the obsequious billionaire biography to another level to actually commit obstruction of justice to protect your subject. He owns an island. Yes, he does own The sixth largest island in Hawaii Called Lanai He bought it for about 300 million dollars in 2012 What does Lanai mean? Do we know?

It's a Hawaiian word I don't know what it means I think it means porch At least that's how they use it in Florida It means quit claim deeds against natives I think it means something different than porch. That's just how they use it in Florida. It's like a covered porch. Well, if you thought Necker Island was pretty crazy.

Sure. This island is like, what, 30 times larger? Oh, really? That's huge. That's nuts. Yeah, and basically like every business on the island, except for like a gas station and one or two others, either is owned by him or pays him rent.

And he's like, I don't know, he bought this. And the other thing, like I said, he lies compulsively. So he bought this island and he talks about turning it into a 100% green, renewable community. And then he just hasn't done anything about that. The most recent story I found is like in 2018, Steve Jobs' doctor of all people who, first of all,

apparently still has his medical license, which was surprising for me to learn. But Larry Ellison, it's just his license. It's just a juicer. It's a Vitamix. He calls his Vitamix the pharmacist. He needs you to go over to the pharmacist for your chemo.

You go, you go to his office and he has all the degrees on the wall, but under it, it all says like Juicero University. Here's my PhD from Herbalife. Oh yeah. But so Steve jobs is doctoring him they've launched this project to uh do like sustainable farming in this island as of 2018 to make you know all natural ingredients and keep on the island i mean it all just sounds like a bunch of buzzword bs and that's the other thing you have to remember with larry ellison and we'll get into some of this. He got rich by essentially selling a product that doesn't exist.

Like they came up with this Oracle database and then he was selling it multiple years before it existed. And then selling completely buggy, unworkable versions of it and lying about the features. So that's been his entire life is like getting himself in the press or in the door by just saying, hey, we're doing this thing when it's not actually happening. It seems like we just kind of skimmed over this, but it seems like he's preparing to flip that island. That's the world we live in where people, billionaires can just flip Hawaiian islands for a profit. But so I guess we can start from the beginning with Larry Ellison and get through how he

built this database technology. Larry Ellison was born in 1944 to an unwed mother in New York. He actually almost died of pneumonia at nine months old in 1944. So I think we can chalk this one up to another failure of New Deal liberalism. So close. Yeah. The problem with social democratic reformism is you take half measures that leave Larry Ellison and Mitch McConnell alive. If you don't like billionaires, take it up with God.

And so his mother is a single mother, unwed. So she has to give him up for adoption. 19 years old. Yeah. She's 19 years old. And so she has to give him up for adoption 19 years old yeah she's 19 years old and so she has to give him up for adoption and he she sends him to live with uh her rather well-to-do um sister in uh chicago so uh larry ellison goes over to chicago um his father's his adopted father is you know a russian jew who who fled russia I like that he started life as hot gossip. And so, and again, Larry Ellison is a compulsive liar, so I have no idea how true this is.

Larry Ellison, according to the book God and Larry Ellison, as a young man, Larry Ellison said his father put together enough money to make down payments on some apartment buildings, then leveraged those properties to buy more. he says his adoptive father was a millionaire um according to larry his tenants stopped paying rent during the depression and he lost most everything so uh i have no idea if any of that is true but um it is relevant to know that on the one hand he says his father was a millionaire landlord and on the other hand he says he grew up in the ghetto in south side of chicago like larry ellison gives all these quotes about like uh he told the wall street journal i didn't know how bad the neighborhood was until i left he described the neighborhood as notoriously rough and tough. He says he grew up in a poor tenant building.

We didn't have any money. You never know when vacancy rates on your father's building will fall below 70%. And then you have to move into your other house. It was rough out there. He can relate to people in the south side of Chicago today. Worrying about whether or not their parents' tenants will pay the rent next month.

Yeah, all of a sudden, a bunch of people who need shelter can't have it, and all of your income is gone. And then just one from this Mike Wilson book. The truth was Larry Ellison did not grow up in a tenement. His family was not poor, and his neighborhood was not rough. He truth was Larry Ellison did not grow up in a tenement. His family was not poor

and his neighborhood was not rough. He originally was on the north side of Chicago. They moved to the south side, but specifically a neighborhood called South Shore, which was one of the south side's most desirable neighborhoods, according to the book. By the late 1950s, the neighborhood was not just stable, but strong.

People worked as college professors and shoe store owners and lawyers and so on. They had a they just saying white what is that what do you think that means yeah basically i mean it was italian so not quite but no i mean it went through cycles it was like the most desirable south chicago right right it's got an olive garden yeah it was like a wasp neighborhood than an Italian... But also they have a chain store that sells pasta. It was like a wasp

neighborhood than an Italian-Irish than a Jewish neighborhood. Buzz, buzz. Yeah. Wouldn't you want to grow olives in an orchard? Yeah, why? Instead of a garden. I think it's more that

I think the olive garden is more that it's like a family. Yeah, it's a small operation. They know their olives. So it's less that for maximum olive efficiency, yes, but for a family operation you would only be able to afford a garden.

It's a family that can't afford to salt the water when they make pasta free breadsticks though but so ellison he graduates from uh south shore high school in 1962 he uh enrolls in the university of illinois um he essentially he goes there. He takes physics classes. He starts to learn about programming there at University of Illinois, but his adoptive mother dies of cancer his sophomore year. So he drops out. He later enrolls briefly at University of Chicago.

Drops out. And so his adoptive... So he's a dropout? Kanye West, Bill Gates style? Exactly. Wow. That's a dropout. Larry Ellison. That's right.

Kanye West also grew up in the rough neighborhood Larry Ellison grew up in. He worked at the Olive Garden. The Wi-Fi was spotty. It's rough. But so Larry Ellison uh his father is like he describes his father as like kind of a conformist go with the flow you know what the government says is right kind of guy so his adoptive father and him have like conflicts you know they don't get along um larry ellison's rebellious against authority figures and all that kind of stuff

and so basically his mother has died. So he's living with his adoptive father. But in 1966, he gets sick of it. So he drives to Berkeley, California in 1966. And essentially people who have problems with authority tend to fall into two categories. There's either like you have a problem with authority. So you try to like work at a grassroots level, make things better for people. Or you just become like a huge billionaire

and become the authority yes he has problems with authority so that's why he fires people before their stock options vest he wants to teach other people to have problems with authority but essentially so he goes out to california he meets his first wife here apparently like in the 60s he got a nose job i don't really know why but he deviated septum or like what do you think i don't know maybe he's vain maybe he's crazy because i'm seeing his face now it doesn't look that great it was uh 10 less coke than john mccafee is still an inhuman amount of cocaine so he blew his nose out a nose job in the 60s is like it's more of a practice nose job like they're still figuring it out john thackeray taking skin from your arm i'm watching the nick i

know uh but so essentially uh they live in Oakland, California. He has like expensive taste. His wife gets mad at him because he buys like a sailboat or some shit, even though he's like a college dropout. But he's like, he's essentially working as a contract computer programmer, you know, late 60s, early 70s. He's like I said, he took some of these classes as part of his physics degree, or that he didn't finish. But he also is mostly self-taught on this.

Loser. Yeah. Andy is much cooler than the guy worth $66 billion. Owned, bitch. Because Andy finished his physics degree. But so in the early 70s, he gets a job at amdahl corporation which was uh run by a guy named gene amdahl who uh helped develop the mainframe computer at ibm uh this is from the book everyone else must fail amdahl's uh idea was to uh outdo the reigning mainframe computer maker with cheaper

machines that could run the same software so essentially essentially... I'd just like to pitch in and say I also pay my prostitutes. Sex workers, please. Come on, Eddie, be respectful here. Did we mention that at the top, that on multiple sex worker forums, Larry Ellison has been accused of skipping out on the bill? No, but now we are. Yeah, well...

Now they know. Sorry for not putting the good stuff first, people. We're still learning how to do this podcast. Is still married uh no he has four divorces under his belt congrats a hat trick wasn't enough the golden sombrero of divorces uh yeah so essentially um he's working at this early tech company and you from this guy, he learns a lot of tech entrepreneur stuff that inspires him. This company has to go into business with Fujitsu. Is that how it's called? I don't know.

Yeah, that's right. Japanese company. Hell yeah. So because they need the startup capital, they have to go into business with a Japanese company. So Larry Ellison visits Kyoto on a business trip for this company. Kyoto. Kyoto. And since then, he has been inspired by the Japanese and their practice of not paying sex workers throughout the Korean peninsula. But yeah, so he gets this lifelong fascination

with Japan. And as we mentioned, he has, you know, these Japanese gardens and all this other Japanese management philosophy kind of stuff that you'll see as a trend in Silicon Valley. But the important thing here is he leaves this company in the early 70s. He bounces around a couple different other companies. But what really happens is he gets a job at a company called Ampex, A-M-P-E-X, which was working on storage of audio and video data. His boss there is a guy named Bob Miner. And Bob Miner and him work on a project for the Central Intelligence Agency. Bob Miner majored in Robert.

But so they get this project working for the Central Intelligence Agency. And importantly enough, this is called the Terabyte Memory Project. The Central Intelligence Agency needed to keep track of all the wars they were starting around this period. And to do so, you needed, you couldn't rely on 500 gigabytes to get the job done. Of course not. So they needed a terabyte. And again, this is the early 70s. So a terabyte of data is a big

deal in that time. And so essentially him and Bob Minor and other people at Ampex get this contract for the CIA. And they build this, you know, terabyte memory device to store the thing. And Larry Ellison, Larry Ellison leaves Ampex, but the contact there is very important because we mentioned this guy, his boss, Bob Miner. He meets another programmer named Ed Oates. And so Larry Ellison goes on to another company called Omex, Ampex, Omex. And Omex puts out a request for bids on software to manage its latest storage device. So Larry Ellison contacts his two old co-workers and says, hey, we should form a company and put a bid on this. And they do. And they put a bid of about

$400,000. You know, they'll get this done for $400,000. So essentially, he starts a new company while still working for Omex. And they deliver a product to Omex while he's still working there to the point where like they even set up offices, believe in the same building as omics this is like 1977 so he'll go to his job at omics and then just like go downstairs to his job at the company he just found it um and i believe they had about according to different sources they had about 2 000 bucks in startup capital um i think 1200 of it was larry ellison's and he's actually making decent money as a computer programmer at this point. I won't do it. Stephen, you got the...

I won't do it. I'm on strike. Larry Ellison is making decent money as a computer programmer. Stephen's on strike. We have that scab on speed dial. No more inflation estimates. Let's call in Alex Patak. He's our Stephen Scab.

Alex Patak is going to cross the inflation lookup picket line. But so, fucking, he gets this contract, and they're working on it. And this is 1977. They found this company. But the important thing that happens around here, and they, you know, the nice thing about essentially programming software there's not that much heavy capital intensive startup requirements so they can put you know 2000 and they're all working as software coal miner can do it they're all working as a software programmer so they have a bit of capital lying around

but what really changes everything is larry ellison uh reads a published paper from an ibm researcher called ted cod was published in 1976 and this research paper is about how to design a relational database and hopefully i can explain this because i barely understand it myself but from what i understand essentially up until this point, computer databases were like very linear, where like you couldn't look up an element that was all the way at the bottom of the database. You had to like just go down in order. Oh, yeah. To look up everything before it first. Right. database and this is the from the paper from ibm researcher ted cod uh was essentially just um

you could use sql structured query language uh that would enable you to look up anything within a database and not have to go from the top down and that's relational databases yeah nowadays they have really you know sophisticated ones where you have a lot of different tables of data that relate to each other relational sql databases were such as my sql or um microsoft access my sql which is my gm sql was actually uh very pivotal in and this is true uh creating message boards culture so go on every time you've been you none of us would have been able to be called a shit heel on the regular online as teenagers or not for the invention of these relational databases yeah Larry Ellison wouldn't be able to find sex workers and then not pay them the money that he made with SQL if SQL wasn't invented.

The relational database developers were like, 40 years from now, I want kids to gravitate towards fascism and actually use this language to get out in the streets and share their views. And that's how we got Sean McCarthy. They were like, can we remove the usernames from this language

and make it anonymous and see what happens? I will say, Sean, I don't know if you've got much of a career as a programmer, so I'm glad to have you fall back as a journalist. But so they look up this relational database thing, and it is kind of a similar story to Microsoft and Apple, where IBM or a researcher for IBM invents this technology, but IBM doesn't take advantage. And the actual story of why IBM doesn't take advantage is because they actually want it to ship a decent project, which is like a weird life lesson from capitalism. But basically what happens is we mentioned they start this company in 1977, Larry Ellison, and it's the four-man team, Larry Ellison, Bob Miner, Ed Oates, and then they

hire this programmer, Bruce Scott. The program is primarily written by Bob Miner and Bruce Scott. Larry Ellison is out there selling it and pitching it to people. But the important thing is it takes them two years, so they're finished with the thing in 1979 but their thing is a completely buggy unworkable piece of shit that's even i think one of the early founders nicknamed it the roach motel for data because you enter your data in and it just disappears nice but and so it's like a weird thing where the ibm philosophy they launched their relational database 1982 so you know you know, Larry Ellison beats them to market by like three years. But IBM was like, hey, we don't want to sell this until we're confident in our product. Let's sell people a good product. Whereas Larry Ellison was like,

let's just sell people a buggy piece of shit and then we'll have enough market share and it will be too expensive for people to switch over. Because apparently that's like very cost intensive for a business to switch its database software but it's an interesting story where essentially like i said during this period larry ellison is selling a product that doesn't exist and their first customer is the central intelligence agency so we mentioned you know the cia they need this relational database so that they can look up members of the Black Panther Party and coordinate with Chicago police to have them murdered so essentially Larry Ellison's connected to most of these CIA's major crimes during

this time period that explains you know with the things going wrong in the database how they just lost all of that cocaine. Yeah, the database worked fine. The CIA just pretended. When it came time for a congressional testimony, they're like, yeah, the database, it's a black box. They wanted to make like monday.com, but for witness intimidation. We had all that information on Guatemala and El Salvador.

It was all in the database. We typed it all up and I don't know what happened. Next thing you know, there's a crack epidemic. Computers, man. I like the idea of them using the relational database to keep an eye on cocaine prices so that they can undercut their competitors. Which was, like, not the cocaine prices thing, but the prices was an early

use of relational databases because you can keep track of prices much more efficiently if you have a relational and not a top-down database so how was his uh product shittier than the competitors well it was just totally buggy and unworkable like and so i'll kind of go through this here um but i should mention i did not want to um slander the cia by suggesting that they killed a black panther when actually it was the fbi that did that um but so essentially the story here and this is from the book you know uh larry ellison god and larry ellison by mike wil. Essentially, the story is that the CIA is very interested in this relational database technology. They go to IBM, and IBM demonstrates it but says, hey, we don't have a product ready to market yet.

You know, come back. At IBM, we take a strong stance against letting our products be used by imperial governments for less than humanitarian means. The CIA went to IBM's relational database and was like, yeah, see, we can use F to look up Anne Frank. IBM's like, shit, I thought we took that out. The CIA guy pushes the button T on the IBM terminal, and then Treblinka comes up, and they're like, this demonstration is over. IBM's just waiting for the Nazis to come back. They just keep all the documents just at the ready.

But so IBM doesn't want to deliver cia the product because it doesn't work the guy who's in charge of procurement for the cia at this time is a guy named dave roberts and he actually knew bob minor from that aforementioned terabyte memory project because bob minor had worked on that so uh there the cia procurement guy is like i can't get this from ibm right now is anybody else have one so he looks around and he finds this company that was started by larry ellison he calls them up bob minor answers the phone so it's like of course i know this guy i'll buy a relational database from him i just want to say like uh i've been having some troubles at work and we just you know started a company here have we considered uh lying to the cia money? I do want to like...

What would our contract with the CIA be? It doesn't matter. We're not going to deliver on it anyway. We spread leftist disinformation. The CIA is like, yeah, if you guys could just take... What would our other contract be? The CIA is like, yeah, if you guys could just like spend 10 minutes an episode promoting modern art that presents a sense of futility in all radical movements and makes people think the system is impossible to change. So they should just check out of it.

Yeah, the guys are only officially getting $10 a month on Patreon, but they seem to be buying Ferraris. I don't really know what's going on with that podcast. One of them just sold a print of his ass at Sotheby's for $60 million. It's not even a good print. It's just a photocopy. But so, according to the CIA guy, Dave Roberts, the company at the time was called Relational Software Incorporated

Later changed its name to Oracle Oh I forgot to mention the Terabyte software project was codenamed Oracle So Larry Ellison just took that and then named his company after it Oracle As was foretold Yeah A naked Greek virgin on drugs told him to do that seen at burning man yeah um but so the cia according to uh dave roberts the cia became

the cia became customer number one for oracle um and just like random story when the agency made payments on the contract it sent the checks in plain white envelopes with no return address damn just like our benefactor right and so like i said you know larry ellison even tells the co-founder i have to lie to customers to be successful so like he pretends they have more employees than they do they tell people that they're selling version two because they assume nobody would buy version one there was never any version one of this software um and so after they sell it to the uh the cia larry ellison sells it to navy intelligence and um uh just again from this god larry ellison book uh it took the company a couple years to deliver something to the cia but what it delivered was, quote, was really not usable as a database, Dave Roberts from the CIA said. And the Navy intelligence

people quickly realized that they were debugging the product for RSI and paying for the privilege of doing so. And then it quotes one Navy intelligence guy. We were teasing them about being their testing and evaluation arm. We would load it onto the computer in the morning and then call up ed gates at the company in the afternoon and tell him what our problems were the guys at rsi would fix it in the evening and then they'd get down in the the flight the next morning we almost did this on a daily basis so basically they ship an extremely buggy product that's clearly not functional to the united states government. Clearly not up to the standards of the American Navy, where everything has to work when they're in a combat situation

in the Gulf of Tonkin. It is just an interesting thing where it's like, I don't know, Forbes gives this guy a 9 out of 10 self-made score, and it's like, he made his money because of the united states government and uh its need during the cold war for database technologies so that the cia could start their secret wars and all that nonsense thank you andy you're welcome sean uh and so it was um it's just interesting where again as i mentioned ib IBM doesn't enter this market until 1982 and they ship a functional product. But because the government is already using their buggy piece of shit and they have, in addition to like getting money from the government, the government is acting as their fucking quality assurance arm where the Navy guys are loading up their product and telling them what's wrong with it.

And then they're fixing it. You know, generally companies hire somebody to do that. But because market share is so important and because, you know, it's very difficult for a business to switch off of a database technology, it's kind of the same thing with Windows operating system where it wasn't the best. It just dominated the market so much,

and they were out in front, so they're the ones who, you know, reap the rewards. Sean's a linux guy but um and i guess just like uh one other thing from this uh period is uh shut up about it we've mentioned most silicon valley companies have this um i think the term is capitalist exploitation model um so from the God and Larry Ellison book, in ways big and small, Larry Ellison tried to get the most from his employees. Every time the company hired a new person,

they had to buy two new computer terminals, one for the office and one for the new employee's home. The home terminals were connected to an RSI computer by a phone connection. RSI is the company at the time. Ellison referred to the home machines as a, quote, company benefit. What he should have said was that they were a benefit to the company. Putting a computer terminal in employees' homes ensured that they were never really left the office.

Everybody worked all the time, said the company's first accountant i'm glad as a society we've moved on from that dystopic uh labor situation where you know everyone just takes their work home with them and can never leave the office you have a terminal too what no you have a terminal at your in your room yeah yeah i do well you gotta escape that. Well, you gotta... I escaped that fate. You gotta work hard from that terminal, Andy, so that your boss will have money to not pay sex workers with. That's crazy that he has 60 plus billion dollars. Yeah.

It's like, I'm not gonna give you the two grand or whatever the amount of money a sex worker demanded of him. I mean, people speculate he gets off on it, and it's, I mean, look, I don't know why somebody would do that. What if that's the only reason he gets sex workers? He just gets off on screwing them over on the pay. He doesn't even like the sexual part of it.

Well, the other thing is he does this to his employees, too. I mean, we'll go through a couple different... He doesn't pay them as well? Well, he essentially... After fucking them? He gets rid of them right before their stock options vest, even if they're people who've made him hundreds

of millions of dollars just to be a petty asshole. And he doesn't eat their ass. A lot of ass talk on Twitter and I've forgotten how much I've talked about eating ass on this podcast. So, keep them coming. Fellas, ladies... He violated the ass-eating clause. That them coming. Fellas, ladies. He violated the ass-eating clause.

That's right. In the employment contract. Fellas, ladies, get you a boss that'll eat your ass. You won't deal with four divorces if you start eating that ass. Committed to one hour per week, but haven't seen anything. I liked when Andy was doing

the Jay Leno setup on that one. Fellas, you seen this? You seen this boss who doesn't eat your ass? Kev, you seen this? Nah, Jay, I eat all the books. But so, and interestingly enough, his co-founder, Bob Miner, I mentioned him, but Bob Miner actually didn't like

that they were working their employees to death. And so just a quote from Larry Ellison, Bob didn't like to see people work too hard because he thought the company was taking advantage of them. Larry Ellison said, with no self-awareness whatsoever. But it is interesting. Bob Minor is the other co-founder, but he dies of cancer in 1994. So he was kind of like a maybe a balancing influence on larry and since that time he's just been free to be a huge asshole um and uh seems to be a trend uh amongst people who associate with larry and like one other story

from that time mother steve jobs essentially the company um love fruit juice the uh the company goes public they have their ipo in 1986 and bob minor is the guy who actually makes sure that all the employees have some stock like if it wasn't for bob minor larry ellison would have screwed a bunch of employees out of stock options. Wow. Yeah. Bob Minor, Major Roberts, the only reason why Larry Ellison doesn't have more money probably? Yeah, basically. There are so many sex workers who didn't get the opportunity to not get paid because of Bob Minor.

But I guess just like to go through, I guess guess up to the when was the challenger disaster uh 86 so i'm not saying larry ellison has anything to do with this because he doesn't but in 1985 he did call up nasa and say i don't give a shit about the O-rings. Put that teacher in space. It was January 28, 1986. Oh, you look up dates but not inflation numbers, Stephen? Where will this strike end? But so basically, in 1985, NASA starts calling them up and saying that their database software is totally buggy and unusable. And so they have to make a bunch of corrections.

But essentially, especially in the early 80s, I think eventually they sell it to Ford, but they are primarily selling to government agencies. Apparently the line of data that says O-rings lose their ability to hold in gases when it's below freezing outside just disappeared. Larry Ellison had to make sure that happened because he knew those teachers' stock options were about to vest. It was mislabeled in the server. They thought it was an Irish last name. Yeah.

But so in Bob Miner's opinion, Oracle didn't really release a working product until version four came out about five and a half years after the founding of the company but others say the only the first one that actually worked was version five introduced in 1986 so it is just like a weird thing where it's like i don't know if you want to call it a good business strategy to just dump uh what do you want to call it a good business strategy to just dump a, what do you want to call it, buggy, fraudulent product onto the market and then get enough people to use it and have it be too difficult for them to switch so they just have to wait for you to patch the thing. Sean, are you saying it's wrong to release trash and then later release something that works for money? I don't know anything about releasing a weak product

before someone else can put out a billionaire's podcast that's better researched and actually coherent. We're only doing this episode because Larry Ellison's about to start a podcast. Yeah. Did you see Zuckerberg starting a podcast? Oh. Ugh.

I don't like. That sounds listenable. Oh my God. Hi, this is Mark Zuck the MZ of the PD That's short for podcast like and poke the podcast. I'm here to teach you about business Watch it become the number one podcast because if you don't listen Zuckerberg will read your social security number on air I'm gonna read the entire metadata of everyone who is not a Patreon subscriber. So basically, oh, one other random thing is... Pal, I just shit my pants.

At justcoffee.coop. Barbecuing some brisket. So we mentioned Larry Ellison is a compulsive liar. According to Gawker, Ellison is said to have simultaneously juggled romantic entanglements with three of his employees at the same time. How at the same time? During sex. He had three different conference call phone sexes in a row. Hi, hi, I really need to have phone sex,

but we got a couple people on the line, so let's just get it done quick. He had them all on hold and went back and forth. Yeah, take it off. Okay, hold. I got a call on line two. It's just the sitcom two dates at one trope via conference calls. I mean, if you've never come to Kenny G Hold Music, you are missing out.

He accidentally goes to Bill Gates on line four right when he's ejaculating. Not this again i mentioned this because as of 1980 so they're found at 1977 1980 they have about 12 employees the 10th employee i believe she's hired either 79 or 1980 is a woman named barbara booth she's hired as a receptionist and she would become the the mother of larry ellison's two children. So Larry Ellison... This is his second wife? This is his third wife. His first wife leaves him after seven years.

His second wife leaves him after, I think, a year and a half. Then his third wife is a receptionist that they hire for the company. And in January 1983, she has their son, David. And his first wife, he actually remained friends with, and his first wife warned his third wife about his proclivity for constantly cheating. Oh, yeah, don't let the wives talk. It's like... Rule number one, never let the first wife talk to the third wife.

You know, they say billionaires are so much smarter than us, but they don't know these kinds of basic things. If the fourth wife asks where the first three wives are, you say they're all in Canada. But so January 1983, he has his son David, and one other story from this time, the author Mike Wilson actually got his third wife to talk for this book book and she says

with a gun to her head uh she says quote he once turned to me i was like five or six months pregnant and said if my company doesn't work out don't expect me to stick around she knew what he meant if the company collapsed he was not going to wallow in the failure he was going to leave and start over again someplace else i mean just get out of here clear out and clearing out meant leaving everything including me he's to your like hitchhiking on the road with a bag it's gonna be like the uh hulk yeah it's a devil bag yeah right well to your five or six month pregnant wife telling her that you will be gone if your buggy software craps out don't make me angry i'll screw

you out of your stock options if i'm angry or if i'm not angry it's her her first husband didn't warn didn't warn her i like the idea of him promising to get the kids vaccines and then getting a cia contractor to do it we outsource debugging for our children too um and then one other story from this december so she's gives birth jan 1983. They get married. This is his third wife, December 1983. A few from the same book by Mike Wilson. A few hours before the wedding, Ellison handed her a typewritten prenuptial agreement and told her she had to sign it. He had mentioned it several weeks before but hadn't brought it up since. Booth had to sign now or leave her child

without a father and uh you know it's interesting where it's like this 1983 at this point he actually puts his assets worth you know several million i think like 11 million is what his estimate of his stock assets are at this point because he has a lot of good government contracts um but the the follow-up is that his wife needed a lawyer at 11 AM. She got one, her father who had arrived early to help with the wedding preparations, uh, starts acting as her lawyer, uh, for this prenuptial agreement. And then Larry Ellison gets other guests at the wedding to start acting as his lawyer for this prenuptial agreement negotiation taking place just a few hours before the actual

wedding. You know, I mean, weddings are so expensive. You've got to cut corners to save money. I know I shouldn't be shocked, but a billionaire's wedding is probably the best place to find a lawyer on a short notice. But so, you know, I mean, this is all just to explain to you that, again, Larry Ellison is a cold-blooded sociopath. Like anyone who's ever been adopted is incapable of incorporating themselves into the relationship. Wow, Sean. But to bring us back to the subject here, 83 to about 1990, essentially, they're growing pretty well. They hire a very aggressive sales force, and we've hopefully beaten this point to death.

They have a shitty garbage product that's not even workable until 1986, but because they're first to market, they're able to grow their business share very aggressively because everybody does need a relational database. Oh, tell me about it. It is much more useful than having to scroll from the top down in any sort of business environment or government environment. Oh, tell me about it. some Cold War applications. They quote an employee saying, Oracle was tracking everything, everything. If there was anything up above, on the water,

or underneath, Oracle was tracking it. So a nice history that Oracle continues to build on today. All the data Oracle could handle. Like item five, up above. Item six, underneath. There's a table called above and another table called below and another one called right in front of you.

But so Oracle from this time, from about 83 to 1990, they start, Larry Ellison gets obsessed with 100% annual growth rate because they are growing very fast and he wants to deliver that every year so he hires a very aggressive sales force which would essentially go out to companies and promise them quite almost literally anything to get them to sign including like uh perpetual updates perpetual tech support and then as soon as they sign on the dotted line it's just impossible to get in contact with oracle so they get this reputation for being like extremely shitty to

their customers but everybody wants this technology so the salesforce figures correctly that it doesn't matter if you piss off a customer you just make the sale and then there'll be someone else who wants to buy your shit you know and? And so essentially, throughout the 80s, they do a little bit of accounting fraud where Larry Ellison has like a disdain for a CFO. Like he views them as bean counters. So Larry Ellison wanted a CFO. That's what differentiates him from Howard Schultz.

But Schultz, he also thinks they're bean counters, but he knows it's essential. So essentially during this time, the company's chief financial officer was a guy named Jeff Walker, who was really a developer of the company's financial applications. But Ellison, yeah, he referred to CFOs and accountants as bean counters. And they quote an employee as saying, Larry wanted a CFO he could control instead of one who should be a second opinion. So essentially, they get into all these shady accounting practices, where like, just as one example, in the 1980s, there was a 6 million license deal for applications where only a minimal amount of code had been written. They started doing this thing where they would sign contracts right before the end of a quarter, especially after 1986 and the IPO, and they want to report these strong numbers.

They would sign contracts right at the end of the quarter and then spend even up to years continuing to negotiate them because of some accounting principle that says you can count this revenue as long as there's only minor modifications to be made to this contract and um and you know they had like all this uh money that you know was essentially uh receivables like money that was owed to them that they counted as revenue even though it hadn't been collected and tons of it would never actually be collected so essentially their their sales force um started engaging in accounting fraud and very shady practices um and making all sorts of wild promises to get customers and they even like like right before the bottom fell

out of this they launched a uh promotion to pay their sales Salesforce bonuses in gold coins. And they had a guy dressed as one of the 49er gold miners come to the office and speak in an old-timey accent and shower the top-performing salespeople with gold coins. And I do like that they took the the grub stakers metaphor quite literally i also read that that guy didn't get paid either but so essentially they had like these you know because they had booked all this revenue that didn't exist sometimes it just doesn't pan out they booked all this uh revenue that didn't. So they had these cash flow problems. And what happens is they overstated revenue.

According to this God and Larry Ellison book, they overstated revenue by about $55 million by billing too soon or incorrectly. The Securities and Exchange Commission investigated and Oracle had to pay a $100,000 fine and sign a consent decree in which it agreed to desist from such practices as double billing and booking premature or non-existent revenue. So throughout the 80s into the 90, 91, they're doing some light accounting fraud. It seems like he owes an apology to the bean counters

since they constituted a big part of their business earlier. I've actually got audio from a meeting he had with one of his CFOs. You don't like me, Bond. You don't like my methods. You think I'm an accountant. A bean counter more interested in my numbers than your instincts. The thought had occurred to me. Good.

Because I think you're a sexist, misogynist dinosaur. The fate of the Cold War. Whose boyish charms. They wasted on me, obviously appeal to that young woman. I sent out to evaluate you. Point taken. Not quite W7.

Yeah, no, it was pretty awkward exchange between him and his CFO. I don't like you comparing Larry Ellison to a man who always makes sure his majesty's government pays his sex workers. But so essentially the company almost falls apart in this period because of course they settle with the sec they have multiple shareholder lawsuits that they have to settle because they're again accounting fraud they're misstating revenues they are fucking with a publicly traded company that a lot of people invest in. Accurately reporting their financial statements.

Exactly. And so essentially the company almost falls apart in this period. Letting bureaucracies get in the way of stopping the GoldenEye satellite and destroying the world financial system. The company almost falls apart in this point. And it is just something where it's like, I don't know if it's kind of the Americana culture where you see like a multi billion dollar company like Oracle and you say, oh, Larry Ellison is the guy who deserves all the

credit for this. But it does. But it's like this guy, if it wasn't for other people who he would later fire or otherwise disgrace, this company would have fallen apart because, again, he didn't want a CFO. So, of course, widespread accounting fraud takes place. And you know, his sales force is widely despised for lying to customers. So the company almost collapses and they need a $80 million cash injection from Nippon Steel, a Japanese steel company. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to make their bill payments because a lot of banks wouldn't extend them any more credit because aforementioned accounting fraud um so they have to get a new ceo who's like an experienced guy named ray lane they have to get a new cfo and these the new ceo and cfo from 1992 to 2000 it's like with these people the world is not enough they essentially from 1992 to 2000 put the company back on stable

financial footing and make it like an actual real company where contracts get resolved uh in six days instead of six weeks and and you know all this other stuff resolved to die another day but like you know and you can look up any uh i guess business book as to what ray lane the new ceo did and the new cfo again i'm jeff henley but essentially they saved the company and i did make sure that tomorrow never dies i did want to uh just share with you uh the new ceo ray lane had um i think mckinsey like a consulting firm come in and like evaluate what the sales force was doing wrong and so mckinsey determined it was octopus

well there's your problem what the sales force was doing wrong. And so McKinsey... And he determined it was Octopus. Well, there's your problem. McKinsey came in and they spoke with like 10 or 15 clients of Oracle. And the quote was, not a single one had a good thing to say about the company. Among the kinder comments were calling the company unprofessional arrogant difficult to work with full of themselves and a den of thieves so it's like you know i mean i don't see anything wrong with several of those that's like you but you have heard of us

yeah well we weren't especially successful at accounting fraud but you have heard of us. Well. We weren't especially successful at accounting fraud, but, you know, we're putting our name out there. Under the extremely successful system of capitalism, that is more important. The fact that you have heard of us means we already won. I have to go. Yeah. Sean, I gotta go. All right. So I guess Steve's going to tap out here,

but we'll just finish up the story of Mr. Larry Ellison in a moment. All right. Well, we're back. Steve just left, and he did all the research on everything the company has done since the year 2000. So we really did a smart thing putting that at the end of the episode so essentially the larry ellison story is going to go to the year 2000 and then get very confused i think i can i got something that'll cover for that all right um but so where we left you uh before steve steve had to uh check

out to see the newest uh cape shit movie is um uh larry ellison uh he's going to shutter island too the uh the company uh turns things around thanks to a new professional staff from you know 92 to 2000 and uh mckinsey you know essentially they overhaul their sales compensation compensation structures to prevent all this kind of short term stuff. And they, you know, get into standard accounting practices, so they're not, you know, wildly fraudulent. And then just kind of mixing that with their existing market share, they're able to grow very successfully from about 92 to 2000. But Larry Ellison is kind of like, I would describe him as capitalist Joseph Stalin, that he uh seems to have a

problem with anyone at oracle except for him taking credit and when he's decided that somebody is getting too much credit for the company he will begin uh undermining them to the board and he will like start taking partners or other management people aside and just talking to them about what an idiot this other guy is and how he's always fucking up and you know this kind of stuff and that he lays the groundwork for the purge which is a firing that person before their stock options confessed and then photoshopping them out of company photos which he does like i mean he sort of does that where he'll like erase their existence from the company website and history and then he had the soviet era production sales statistics right before he fires them they yell hail ellison um but so ray lane we mentioned the ceo from uh i think 92 to the year 2000

uh larry ellis so he saves the company or him and the new management team do i should say and um larry ellison pushes him out while he's on vacation uh larry ellison calls him on vacation and says you know hey i think we should go in a different direction and like a really roundabout way and he does this two and a half weeks before the guy is about to vest 70 million dollars in stock and you know this is the guy who like to vest $70 million in stock. And, you know, this is the guy who, like, fucking saved your screaming accounting fraud company and you're putting him out to pasture. And so there's a lot of different cases of him

essentially firing... There are various wrongful termination lawsuits, firing people without severance agreements, which you're not supposed to do, screwing employees out of money. They talk about... There was a guy, Jeff Squire, who was apparently the lead of overseas sales for Oracle. He says he generated about $500 million in revenue for the company and got them through the really lean times in the early 90s. And he's quoted as saying, I believe this is from the Everyone Else Must Fail book. He says, Larry has an absence

of generosity because essentially they tried to get him to sign a release agreement saying that he had been terminated on October 28, making him ineligible for vesting 2 million worth of stock. But he was still working for the company and negotiating a deal in December of that year. So it's just extremely blatant. And again, he says that he made about $500 million in revenue for the company. And Larry Ellison is trying to screw him out of $2 million. It does sound, though, like if he got stuck with that, that he wasn't that good at negotiating. He wasn't doing great negotiating if they stuck him with that.

Yeah, and among, from this Everyone Else Must Fail book, there was also a guy who lost a million dollars worth of stock. It was an executive who left the company to become an Episcopal priest. Oh, wow. So, you know,

going on to do even more damage to society by spreading the heretical gospel i mean on the bright side you know at least with an episcopal priest larry ellison can get divorced more but like essentially and you can go through all this stuff of larry ellison pushing out uh tom siebel essentially he pushes out a lot of people who found companies that directly compete with Oracle. So it's like he does kind of fuck himself out of money, out of just pure ego and being an asshole who needs to always take credit for things. But like Tom Siebel is the founder of Siebel System, which is a major competitor to them. It's from the Everyone Else Must Fail book. Mike Fields was pushed out.

He founded Open Vision. Greg Conway ran PeopleSoft, which Larry Ellison would have to do a hostile takeover of, you know, spend a bunch of money and fight off a Department of Justice antitrust lawsuit. But essentially, you know, a lot of different people were pushed out, and many of them founded competing companies. And many of them had like essentially saved or built a lot of Larry Ellison's company. And he has no regard for what they did to make him worth $66 billion. But so from, you know, 92 to 2000, you know, a new management team takes over, saves Larry Ellison's company. 2000, he pushes them out, or specifically the CEO, later the CFO. But 2001, Larry Ellison is embroiled in insider trading

related to the dot-com crash. And so the basic story of this- No one's ever embroiled in something good. From the New York Times, Larry ellison is sued under a loss he's sued under multiple losses to this but um one is that essentially the story is essentially that he sold about 900 million dollars worth of stock ahead of news that oracle would not meet its expected earnings target and as soon as this is reported or Oracle's stock value falls in half. Oh, wow. So essentially, he saved, you know, what, $450 million by lying, doing this sale based on inside information, and also publicly lying about how Oracle is about to report solid financials and everything's fine, you know, right before the stock price falls off a cliff. And so this was in 2001 uh he for some reason is able to enter an agreement where he

pays a hundred million dollars to a charity which seems very odd yeah the penalty is less than the profit that he cleared on this insider trading sale um and then just from gawker so this is like he settles one lawsuit this way then there's another shareholder lawsuit about this that is dismissed for insufficient evidence and the reason there's insufficient evidence, because in Gawker in 2008, a local district judge ruled that Oracle conveniently failed to preserve Ellison's email from that period, as well as tapes and transcripts from the Matthew Simons biography, where he interviewed Larry Ellison. According to the LA Times, the shareholders were seeking 130 hours, 135 hours of recorded interviews with Larry

Ellison for the book, Soft War, by Matthew Simons. And Simons destroyed the recordings by directing a computer repair shop to dispose of the laptop on which the recordings were stored which again we mentioned up top takes really the sycophantic billionaire biography to the next level um but so also yes guy who's really bad at not leaving a paper trail always do your own dirty work bro but according to this district judge uh she said it is appropriate to infer that the emails and software materials would demonstrate ellison's knowledge of among other things problems with uh this sweet 11i technology the effects of the economy on oracle's business and problems with uh their forecasting model so essentially he destroyed a bunch of emails and other taped interviews which

would show clearly he knew what the fuck was going on when he sold that oracle stock and and then for this shareholder lawsuit is dismissed for insider evidence for insufficient evidence so nice remember kids it's very important to be nice to your biographer look i know you might get 66 if you work for the cia your biographer might fuck you i know you might get then she'll kiss you i know you might get in the habit of screwing people out of money your biographer really important to make sure he gets his check because he might be embroiled in a lawsuit where he has to obstruct justice for you um and so you know ellison it just kind of goes on like this in 19 that's how you know he didn't have sex with his biographer he paid him uh in 91 um ellison's involved in a sexual harassment lawsuit uh it's just another

employee that um he has a relationship with she has him on email on company email asking for uh offering her things like a loan for 150 000 promising her a house a gulfstream jet um and she was fired in 93 after the relationship ended he's not even giving her 153 50 000 he's offering her a loan um but weirdly enough like and so i've got a sugar loan shark he gets mad when journalists bring them up because essentially she faked some evidence and actually did a year in jail for perjury um which is kind of bizarre to me because it seems like a pretty clear case of sexual harassment like i'm sure he's had uh several different cases considering he's carrying on all these relationships with his employees.

But I'm sure he also got punished for this. No, she won. She won 100K in a wrongful termination suit. But then on appeal, she was sentenced to spend a year in jail because she had forged some evidence, basically. Now you're making it sound like these billionaires have a whole different justice system at their disposal uh at least this is from vanity fair at least perjury trial ellison insisted that he had never bought an acura nsx i'm embarrassed to say that i ended up buying four of them emphasis on unacura nsx um and and so essentially uh what's been happening since the 2000s, Larry Ellison was

pushed out as CEO in 2014. And I would speculate it's because of his very brash management style, which involves firing anyone who's useful for the company because eventually they're a threat to his position and credibility as the guy who deserves the genius behind everything, you know. But he was pushed out as CEO in 2014. And what I would argue has essentially happened since then is Oracle has such a dominant position in the database market that it's too expensive or too cost prohibitive for a lot of existing businesses to transition out of Oracle. So even if Oracle database software is not the best on the market, it's just too much of a pain in the ass for Amazon or whoever else to transition out. So essentially they're, well, not quite a monopoly.

They're certainly functioning as one, at least in the United States. Since 2000, they've just been on really an acquisition spree. just any company that's a potential competitor to them they buy out including you know sun systems which gives them like access to java code and i don't know enough about coding but i know a lot of people online complain that larry ellison essentially bought java and then ruined java and you know these kinds of things um and and it is just like uh worth mentioning why the open source community hates him because of a nice little quote i found if an open source product gets good enough we'll simply take it so the great thing about open source is nobody owns it a company like oracle is free to take it for nothing included in all our products and charge

for support and that's what we'll do. So it is not disruptive at all. You have to find places to add value. Once open source gets good enough, competing with it would be insane. We don't have to fight open source. We have to exploit open source. That's actually covered in David Graeber's book, bullshit jobs,

where essentially what a lot of programmers end up doing is a lot of open source code that's written. It's basically created by programmers in their free time. And it's kind of like a labor of love. You know, they're creating things that they want to create. And then at their day-to-day jobs, like a lot of these companies will just take open source software and then they'll hire programmers to patch it together. So basically programmers will make the actual stuff during their free time. And then their job is to kind of duct tape all these just separate open source programs together but so essentially

like with the time we have left unfortunately we can't really go through all the acquisitions that oracle has gone has gone through but maybe we'll do a follow-up episode at some point when steve doesn't have to leave to see the avengers movie But I wanted to mention Oracle has been ripping off the federal government for contracts to the point where they're actually banned from federal government contracts. And this is from Jeffrey Newman Law, his blog. Newman. oracle agreed to pay 200 million dollars to settle a whistleblower lawsuit alleging that it overcharged the feds for software services and giving some agencies much deeper discounts than others in october 2006 oracle paid 98.5 million to settle a case in which peoplesoft was alleged to have provided false pricing information to the gsa the government services agency government general

services administration is the government procurement agency and Government General Services Administration is the government procurement agency. And so basically in October 2012, the federal government canceled all of Oracle's services contracts. The government spent $388 million on Oracle projects and services through the contract fiscal year 2011. And it basically announced that all purchase agreements for Oracle services would be terminated. And this is important.

As of right now, the Pentagon has got a $10 billion, what they're calling the Jedi contract, which is a $10 billion cloud computing contract for Pentagon servers. And as of April 2019, the finalists... That will only destroy itself. And allow for the takeover of the Empire. The cloud computing project

that is going to find the location of Alderaan and test nukes there. Find the rebel base on Alderaan. But so $10 billion, Jedii contract and as of april 2019 microsoft and amazon have been announced as the finalists for this contract but oracle is desperately suing everyone they can in federal court they've they have an ongoing lawsuit against the feds after having lost a previous one on these grounds saying that the feds unfairly excluded them from this fat pentagon contract but it's like listen dipshits it's your own goddamn fault because you were ripping off the

feds every chance you get you know that they were banned from government contracts because they were defrauding the feds you know i'm sorry you can't suck at that teat anymore i mean i don't think they don't know that i think it's they're like yeah we were ripping them off and we can keep doing that if we sue them hard enough basically that and so it is just something where it's like you know we'll we'll see what happens with oracle but so oracle they use this money they made from uh you know database software to move into enterprise you know business software where they're a significant player. But a lot of people have pointed out that other companies are making inroads in enterprise software against them, such as Salesforce, Workday.

These other companies, essentially like the established companies, are still using Oracle. But a lot of startups are switching to Salesforce and Workday because they have a better product than Oracle. So, and, you know, as of March 2019, Oracle had to lay off a few hundred, maybe even a couple thousand engineers worldwide. So Oracle's like going through some restructuring and like so far the stock price is doing fine. But again, my argument would be a lot of the growth or the market position of Oracle is just the fact that they've established a quasi-monopoly in the database area. Maybe they will, maybe they won't be challenged there. But at least on the enterprise software, they have serious competition and we'll see what happens.

But I guess to close things out today, unfortunately, we don't have Steve here to provide us with actual business insight and analytics into the practices of Oracle corporation. So you're just going to have to settle with some gossip from various sex worker websites talking about Larry Ellison, though I did want to mention both of his children are film producers, both of his kids, David and his daughter, they opened his daughter, Goliath,

his daughter's named megan both of them are usc film school dropouts who uh opened uh film production companies it worked for bill gates and uh i do just love that this is the fucking future of entertainment is like if you want to get your movie funded, like get ready to kiss up to the people inheriting the CIA black ops money. I mean, God forbid Hollywood be dominated by out of touch rich people. But I do like that among the films Megan has funded

includes Zero Dark Thirty. Sure, why not? Which, you know, everything comes full circle the cia puts you in business and then 20 years 40 years later they show up and say hey we need you to pretend torture helped us catch ben laden yeah and that it wasn't just a guy who walked into one of our offices in pakistan zero dark 30 is how Larry Allison likes his sex workers. Paid them zero, I want them dark, and around 30.

I think you added 12 years. But so both his kids are film producers, and so it is just something where this is pure gossip. So if you have a problem with it, take it up with thedirty.com. But essentially,

it should be noted that I guess the woke way of saying this is that sex workers rely on anonymous forums to protect themselves from abusive clients. So if you were to desire to do so, you could look up that there is a gentleman who may or may not be Larry Ellison who has showed up on websites like Seeking Arrangements, Sugar Daddy Forum, under profile ideas such as Malibu Flyboy number 519209, Flyboy number 519209, or Lawrence 230653. 306 53 and according to various reports from these these websites this is from the dirty.com he tells every girl that she's the only one that he wants to love her marry her and of course give her kids he lies about having std tests he doesn't use condoms he has a vasectomy but he lies that he wants to get girls pregnant and have babies with them. And then he regularly rips them off on the payment. And I guess I just wanted to share one story of one sex worker talking about Larry Ellison. Malibu Flyboy is a well-known billionaire. He said he was going to make my first meeting worth my while.

As it was going to, I should say, she's talking about Malibu Flyboy, not Larry Ellison. Right. I don't really want to fuck with the guy who's suing google and has people going through bill gates's trash i'm not confident about my ability to prevail in that lawsuit malibu flyboy is a well-known billionaire he said he was going to make my first meeting worth my while, as it was going to take me several hours to be driven, and I was flown on his private jet. Big deal. Spent hours traveling. We had a nice lunch. He bragged about all his money, then said he wanted an arrangement at our next meeting. He would give me my allowance, and we would go shopping. So I left with nothing first time, thinking it would be worth worth it on my next visit I didn't think he would never pay he invited me out the following week to a big public function I entertained him for eight hours during the day along with meeting his friends and making him look good during the time he told me about the car he was going to buy me and all the great shopping we were going to do it be doing basically I wound up fooling around with him later that

night I'd never would have skipping ahead I never would have left the premises if i really thought he was trying he was lying to me and trying to get me out with some form of compensation like the next morning he says oh it's got an emergency meeting you got to go blah blah blah uh what is basically comes down to so i flew back thinking we had a solid agreement and he continued to text me etc what it basically comes down to is he's a major liar and never paid me at least even for my time he led me on for a week saying he was busy with work, etc. He missed me. He would make it up to me. Little did I know he was conning me along. I'm a very pretty model and I have a great personality. This is a billionaire who could easily afford everything. I basically went off on him through text, email, voicemail, etc. and got nothing. There has to be

other girls who have met him and been conned as well i need help spreading the word so other girls don't take it get taken advantage of so larry ellison does not pay his workers i mean i don't mind her calling herself pretty but great personality come on let's if her personality is truly great maybe she'd be larry ellison's wife number five i hope that when we get sued that in the court documents, it's very clearly stated that we're being sued for calling him a fuckboy. You know what? I will give anyone who can listen to Larry Ellison talk about how Napoleon Bonaparte was a great misunderstood man for eight hours. I will give them credit for having a good personality.

To take that man and make him look good with his friends in public, it takes a lot. Noisy feet. And, you know, if you are so interested, you can go to thedirty.com and hear some other reports about Larry Ellison that fall into the same category,

being, you know, possibly abusive towards sex workers and rough in the bedroom and these kinds of things without obtaining, you know, what do you want to call it enthusiastic consent oh does he are there also reports of that there's a report where an 18 year old girl writes about uh how um he took her to bed and malibu something something takes someone yes yes this anonymous billionaire takes people to bed and uh says oh

i'm very vanilla and plain and then is uh very rough and slappy and abusive with words and engages in anal sex without prior discussion and these kinds of things. So, I mean, it is kind of fucked up. And again, look, these are anonymous reports. Anybody can write anything on the internet. But it's fucked up on the one hand that you're a billionaire who doesn't pay your employees, whether they work at your company or otherwise, or people you have a contractual arrangement with, I should say. And it's also fucked up where it's like,

you know, you're fucking with the minds of people who either don't have the resources or in the case of sex workers, they have no legal protection. So you can just steal money from them and be a billionaire and it doesn't matter and there's nothing they can do within the court system or anything. And so, you know, he's just a psychopathic piece of shit who's worth $66 billion and always talks about what a, what a great philanthropist he is. Well, every day he wakes up and, you know,

doesn't end homelessness and doesn't really do anything with all this goddamn money he's sitting on well sean you're saying that but would sex workers be able to spread the word about abusive clients without sequel databases i was gonna say his uh his defense if there was a court case would be like yeah no i entered the sex worker payment contracts into the Oracle database and it just disappeared. Look, my shit's a roach motel for data. I'm sorry. But I guess, you know, maybe we'll do a follow-up. The kids, I'm sure, have a lot of great movies,

ideas to produce that we will not be a part of because of this episode. And hopefully we can... I mean, until he screws them out of their inheritance. Yes. He comes out of retirement for one last job screwing his kids out of their stock options. They make a movie about it. It gets several Oscars.

All right. So we're taking... So I wanted to close this out by just saying we're taking next weekend off, give ourselves a little bit of time to recharge and hopefully come back enthusiastic because we are as we mentioned launching our Patreon

so no episode next weekend May 5th through 7th but look for two episodes May 12th through 14th probably May 14th one behind a paywall and we just need to be able to bring I'd say about 10% more energy than we brought in this episode.

If only we had a way of doing so. Well, maybe we can get McKay fee. But so I guess one last pitch on that. First off, you know, I think we're launching the Patreon. Like,

look, obviously every one of us would love to be fucking soundcloud millionaires making our living off the podcast um and if it happens great but i think my primarily primary motivation is to get this project done we do have to start putting out two billionaire episodes a week and uh hopefully you know even if not that many people listen uh we can start doing that and just have them in the can so that the the project of covering 2 000 some billionaires within a lifetime is feasible uh once we get on this twice a week episode schedule um but i guess there's

that the second part is uh if you are having financial, but you are a listener and want to listen, just email us, grubstakerspodcast at gmail.com. I'm not trying to take your only $5 if you're taking care of your family or anything else is going on in your life. And we do appreciate that there's people who like to listen to us. And we very much appreciate the people

who've hit us up and said, hey, they want to support us and support what we're doing. And my last pitch for giving us $5 a month is that the podcasts that are actually better than ours, which to me would be like Chapo Trap House, Come Town, Red Scare, When Dosh Is Not Too Stone To Function,

those three podcasts that are better than us, those podcasts, you can get the episodes for free on Reddit. So the podcasts that are actually better than us, you could actually just start stealing them and then giving us the money instead. And in fact, I will go so far as to say that we will put pirated links to the podcasts that are better than us behind the paywall. So that if you listen to us, we will teach you how to steal podcasts that are better than us. I also would like to make a pitch too, which is that if we don't make enough money to basically be able to quit our day jobs and do this full time, I will kill myself. I have,

I'm on a fifth floor apartment. My bedroom has two windows. I've got an extension cord. I am an Eagle scout. I know how to tie knots. It's really the the plan's in place it's just a matter of execution so literally literally just a matter of execution so you know um if you don't want me to basically jump from the fire escape with a uh orange extension cord wrapped around my neck tightly falling about a story and a half and snapping my

neck or suffocating from the extension cord while Steven panics and calls the police and my cat runs in circles not knowing what just happened. Just throw a couple bucks on Patreon

and I think we'll put out a good product. I think so. Andy, don't give them incentive not to give money to our Patreon. And everyone else will be kind of sad. How about if our Patreon doesn't get money, Andy will do it in private, but if it does get money, he'll do it in public. On Twitch. Oh, that's hack. i guess so when did killing yourself on twitch become hack it's just hack you want to you want to do it in private to maintain the uh the air of mystery everything about suicide's a little hack

i'm imagining someone like hanging themselves on Twitch and then someone like pays money and you just like forever in the video of it that's archived. Like just as they like kick the stool out from under their feet, you hear, hooray! Somebody, somebody hanging themselves. Leroy Jenkins! Somebody is tying the noose around themselves on Twitch. And then they take a break to be like, Hey, Christ killer 69. Thanks for the $10 donation.

It's like their last words. Hey, yellow jacket, 42, seven months subscribe. Thanks buddy. Uh, well,

let's get some faves going in the okay uh but in summary uh thank you for listening i take that back i'm gonna i've got enough xlr cables that i can do it with those and that's way more symbolic that is true yeah and they if you connected it to each other it would have probably a better hold than the extension cords yeah most likely and uh instead of doing it live andy pre-records it just as one last time making it a bitch for the rest of us to edit and he doesn't do drops on it the only drops at the end and it wasn't worth it yeah andy had to to retake the suicide four times because he kept playing an elvis costello song and we didn't know what the elvis

costello song was shut down for copyright too many times sorry you cannot kill yourself is this leila by Elvis Costello? Nobody sees the video because he kills himself at 20 minutes, but at 10 minutes it gets taken down for copyright infringement. And that's why you don't play Adam's Song for your televised suicide. No, it's a parody. Andy's estate is arguing in court That it's a parody It's Atom Song

A-T-O-M-S It was about the nuclear bomb Alright I never thought They dropped the bomb My death was short But the cord was long I couldn't wait

For the stream Twitch don't ban me now i'm gone wrong song even in this he fucks up well thank you all uh for everyone who said some kind words supportive about the patreon again email us grubstakerspodcast at gmail.com let us know your feedback thoughts ideas and just general comments um we very much appreciate all of you listening and uh we'll be back in two weeks with two episodes one of them uh on the patreon so uh thank you very much and uh good night good morning Allison, I know this world is killing you, Larry Allison. My aim is true. My aim is true.