Guerrilla History - Fund People's Needs - Not the War Machine! [Guerrilla Radio]

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

This week we bring you our latest episode from our spin-off show, Guerrilla Radio.  Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts, and turn out tomorrow for the rally in D.C.! On March 18, the anti-war movement is mobilizing for a national march in Washington D.C. On this episode, co-hosts Amanda Yee of ANSWER Coalition and Gerard Dalbon of DSA International Committee—two organizations endorsing the march—speak to Marcy Winograd of CodePink and Yasemin Zahra of U.S. Labor Against Racism and War about anti-war organizing in light of the war in Ukraine, the imperative to build a movement capable of confronting the U.S. war machine, and why their organizations are also supporting the rally. Be sure to join us in D.C. on Saturday, March 18 at 1pm in front of the White House to say NO to endless U.S. wars! For more information, or to check bus transportation centers in your city, visit answercoalition.org. Keep up to date with the lastest Guerrilla Radio episode releases by following Guerrilla History on twitter The intro/outro song is Model Home by snny ft. Topaz Jones    

Hello, guerrilla history listeners. This is Henry. And this week, instead of releasing an episode of guerrilla history, which we recorded on religion and Marxism, we instead are going to be releasing our latest episode of Gorilla Radio. The reason being, not only is it a great episode, we want to encourage everybody to subscribe to Guerrilla Radio wherever they get their podcasts, but also we want to call on everybody who is able to make it to the Washington, D.C. area, tomorrow, March 18. to do so for a rally against endless U.S. wars. This rally is being hosted by numerous organizations, and in this episode of Gorilla Radio, two of our partisan brigade members, Amanda Ye of the Answer Coalition, and Gerard Badalban of DSA International Committee, speak to Marcy Winigrad of Code Pink

and Yasmin Zara of U.S. Labor Against Racism and War about anti-war organizing in the light of the ongoing concert, in Ukraine and why their organizations as well as others are supporting the rally. The rally against endless U.S. wars will be taking place in Washington, D.C., in front of the White House, as I said, tomorrow, Saturday, March 18th at 1 p.m. So if you need more information to check out bus transportation centers in your city or more information about the rally itself, you can visit answercoolition.org.

We also will have that link available in the bio. A final reminder, before we play the episode, which we have titled Fund People's Needs, Not the War Machine, if you'd like to support guerrilla history and the projects that we put together, you can do so by going to patreon.com forward slash guerrilla history, guerrilla being spelled, G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A. There, you'll be able to help keep our show up and running and get early access to materials like the Religion and Marxism episode that I mentioned at the beginning of this introduction, which has already been on our Patreon for several days and will be until it is

released from our general feed, as well as some bonus content that is Patreon exclusive. Typically, one of the hosts of the show, Adnan, Radochet, or myself going through some material with reflection. We have many things coming out like that on our Patreon as well. So again, if you'd like to support the show financially, you can do so at patreon.com forward slash Gorilla History. And if you would like to keep up to date on further releases of guerrilla radio, which again will be happening on the Gorilla Radio feed, you can subscribe to it wherever you get your podcasts. You can follow us on Twitter at Gorilla underscore Pod, G-U-E-R-R-I-L-L-A-U-Skore. That's where we will advertise all Gorilla History and

guerrilla radio episodes. So make sure to follow us to stay up to date. And on that note, Without further ado, let's turn to the episode, Fund People's Needs, Not the War Machine, a cross-released from Gorilla Radio, hosted by Amanda Ye of the Answer Coalition and Gerard Delbon of DSA International Committee, with members of CodePank and U.S. Labor Against Racism and War, about the upcoming rally to end U.S. wars in Washington, D.C., on Saturday, March 18th at 1 p.m. Those of you, once again, who are in the area or are able to make it to the area, please do turnouts. and support the rally. Hello, everyone.

You're listening to Guerrilla Radio, a companion to the guerrilla of history podcast. I'm one of your co-hosts for today. I'm Amanda from the Answer Coalition. That's Act Now to Stop War and End Racism. And with me is our other co-host, Gerard, who's a member of the DSA International Commission. committee. This is a special episode today because Answer and DSA international community are just two of over 200 organizations sponsoring a national anti-war rally in Washington, D.C. on Saturday, March 18th at 1 p.m. in front of the White House. This national protest will be demanding an end to all U.S. wars. That includes ending the hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons we're shipping to Ukraine to fight our proxy war against Russia.

ending the U.S.'s dangerous escalation with China, ending NATO and Afriqom, and ending U.S. economic warfare in places like Cuba, Venezuela, and Syria in the form of sanctions. And we're demanding an end to all this in order to fund people's needs here at home. Yeah, and today to discuss all of this, we are joined by two guests, Marcy Winograd from Code Pink, and Yes, means. Zahra, from U.S. Labor Against Racism and War, two organizations who are also sponsoring the March 18th rally. Codepink is a woman-led grassroots organization working to end U.S. wars and militarism, support peace and human rights initiatives, and redirect our tax dollars into health care, education, green jobs, and other life-affirming programs. And U.S. Labor Against Racism and War is an independent national umbrella. organization of unions and other labor groups funded in 2003 to oppose President Bush's

war on Iraq. This is a network of more than 120 unions, labor councils, state labor federations, allied labor organizations, and union committees organized to build international labor solidarity to oppose militarism of working class communities, both at home and abroad. And to start off, I think we can each go around. and just introduce ourselves and our anti-war organizing work briefly and maybe say why our organization is endorsing the March 18 rally. And I can start off. My name is Gerard Delvon. I am a member, an organizer with the Democratic Socialists of America. I've been organizing with the International Committee, which is our like foreign policy related national committee.

and I'm based in New York City. I'm also involved with the New York City DSA anti-war working group, which is working here in New York City against militarism and on similar anti-war issues. DSAIC has been involved over the past year

in a lot of this anti-war organizing around the war in Ukraine. We've been working to oppose the U.S. escalations and the military spending and really stress the need for diplomatic

negotiations and really push for against the kind of war-mongering rhetoric that has sort of overcome the mainstream media over the past year. And we believe

it's important to build this anti-war movement. It's important to, for all of us to be engaged in this type of organizing, we're seeing record high military spending, dangerous escalations now possible scenarios in Ukraine could be devastating for the region and for the world. And we've been really focusing on trying to oppose the, sort of mainstream narratives around it. And we hope that this rally will really galvanize the anti-war movement and bring all these organizers together to push for a vision that puts people's needs before endless military spending. Yeah, I can go next. My name is Amanda. I'm with

the Answer Coalition. I've been a part of this organization. for two and a half years now. We have been organizing around the issue of ending the Ukraine war on the past year. Last November, we organized a panel. It was called The Real Path to Peace in Ukraine at the People's Forum, and we had really great guests talking about the need for escalation, or sorry, the need for negotiations and not escalation. And then we had, we organized a rally in Times Square in January with those same demands.

And we have been organizing around this issue because we know that the people in the U.S. are tired of war, especially when so many are struggling here at home and so many programs here continue to be underfunded. And we understand that war is driven by capitalism. It's driven by these political elites who are trying to funnel more and more money into the military contractor CEO's pockets. War is driven by capitalism. Capitalism is the origin of this U.S. policy of never-ending military conflict and imperialist domination. And because of what's at stake here, because we're, we are rapidly moving toward a global catastrophe, it's imperative now more than ever to build a really powerful anti-war movement which can confront the U.S. war machine.

And this is the reason why our organization is endorsing the March 18th rally in Washington, D.C. Thank you so much for inviting us. My name is Yasmin. I chair the organization U.S. Labor Against Racism and War. On a personal level, I've been a labor organizer for the last 12 years or so. I was a service industry worker from a very young age. I honestly didn't even know what a union was until my early 20s.

And I got involved in this work through a wage theft fight at my own job site. So why we're endorsing and supporting this rally and actively recruiting for it is, I think it's really simple. I think, you know, time and time again, we see these presidential candidates run for office on an anti-war platform, but they do the total opposite when they get into office. So to me, it's crystal clear the American people want our tax dollars to go to the needs of the people of our country, of the work. class at large. I think this, you know, proxy war has become a massive waste of our country's resources. And it really is the American taxpayer who is fronting the costs, you know, with some smoke and mirrors from the U.S. corporate mainstream media. We don't need more blank unaudited checks for war contractors and arms manufacturers. They're profiting luxuriously off of human

suffering. And the violence that is carried out by our government is our responsibility as citizens of this country. And, you know, on a basic level, as was mentioned, I don't think any of us want a nuclear contamination, right? That's not in our interest. So we, you know, we endorse this rally also in large part because we need to bring a unifying message that doesn't throw any marginalized group under the bus or deny any body of their humanity, right? We, we, we organized by by leading on each other, by learning from each other, by fighting for each other across race, age, gender, cultures, you know, and if there's, if there's any group that's been really consistent odd principles and has been sort of like a shining

north star on that far, on that front, it's, it's been the organizations that have made all the answer coalition. Yes, I agree with the Esmean, totally 100%. I'm Marcy Winnegrad, and I am the coordinator of Code Pink Congress. It's a bi-monthly show. I co-host the Dia Benjamin and Massachusetts Peace Action that focuses on foreign policy and a U.S. militarization, both abroad and at home. In addition, I'm the co-chair of the Peace in Ukraine Coalition, which Code Pink launched following the invasion of Ukraine on February 24th. Our coalition includes about 100 different organizations, most within the United States, but also a dozen or so in Europe and elsewhere. Our demands are basic. They are. We want to

ceasefire. We want negotiations, not escalation. We want diplomacy. We want to invest in climate, in health care, in housing, in education, not in endless war. To date, the United States has set aside about $15 billion to fund this war in Ukraine. that, an estimated half, is for weapons and military training. So this is unconscionable when we're looking at millions of people. I think it's up with 30% in the United States who are food insecure. They don't know where their next meal will come from. People are living paycheck to paycheck. And here we are hurling money at fanning the flames of war in Crane rather than just sitting down and having peace talks that can end this war now. There is a reason why, of course,

they're fanning the flames of war. Not only does it line the pockets of military contractors, but I think, you know, ultimately the neo-conservatives in the Biden administration and in previous administrations want to send a message to China, and that is that we're going to throw everything that we have at a war with China should have come to that. And let's hope it doesn't, it depends on us to make sure that doesn't happen. I also co-chair the end wars and occupations team of progressive Democrats of America. That's more or less an insurgent force within the Democratic Party, a force for peace. I was a 2020 DNC delegate to Bernie Sanders, worked really hard on his campaign, and I'm urging him to break the silence in Congress on the part of the Democrats

and those who align with them, their caucus, and say, enough, we need to cease spire in Ukraine. Code Pink is one of the key organizers together with the Answer Coalition and People's Forum, of this D.C. March before the White House at 1 p.m. on March 18th, because we think this is an urgent call. We know it's urgent. We see what's happened in Ukraine and how the United States is threatening a wider war by promising to fund attacks on Crimea. We can get into that later. But the bottom line is it's urgent. We need people to hit the streets and be visible. And this is not just for D.C. That's the principal march. But there are sister rally. occurring in Los Angeles, in San Francisco, Detroit, Chicago, Ann Arbor, and elsewhere, and you can learn about them at codepink.org. Great. Thank you all. And Marcy, maybe you can start off by talking a little bit about Code Pink. Then you can talk about what is the relationship between feminism and the anti-war movement,

and how do you and Code Pink see opposition to the war as a women's issue. Thank you, Gerard. got involved with Coat Pink a couple of years ago after serving as a delegate for Bernie Sanders. And my only regret, to be honest, is that I didn't get involved earlier, you know, because I've seen all the stellar work, the anti-war work that Coat Pink has undertaken over the years. And, you know, I just am in awe of their loud objections, their disruptions, their lobbing on Capitol Hill, all of it, to end wars and occupations. Is war a feminist issue?

It is in the sense that war disproportionately impacts the women who are left behind, often without, you know, means of support, without a husband. We see women in Ukraine who are being displaced. They're refugees. They are unaccompanied and often targets. So in that sense, women do bear the brunt of the wars. Of course, men are on the front lines, and I wouldn't minimize anybody in terms of their role and how important it is to challenge the U.S. war machine. All right.

Is it a feminist issue? Yes. Because a feminist foreign policy says that we should be people-centered, not centered around global hegemony, about around a U.S. superpower, being the sole superpower in the world and maintaining this well past the dissolution of the Soviet Union. So in that sense, yes. Now, I would like to share a few lyrics. I'm not going to sing from a song called I Didn't Raise My Boy to Be a Soldier because I think this is really profound. And it speaks to women as mothers, as potential mothers, as bearers of life.

I didn't raise my boy to be a soldier. I didn't raise my boy to be a soldier. I brought him up to be my pride and joy. Who dares to place a musket on his shoulder? To shoot some other mother's darling boy, let nations arbitrate their future troubles. It's time to lay the sword and gun away. There'd be no war today if mothers all would say, I didn't raise my boy to be a soldier.

Great. Thank you, Marcy. So one of the key demands of the rally is an end to the sanctions regime that the U.S. imposes on places like, Cuba, Venezuela, Syria, Iran, and many other countries. While many people don't think that economic warfare is an act of war itself, Code Pink has consistently rallied around lifting these devastating sanctions. So can you speak on the kind of organizing and the importance of recognizing sanctions themselves as an act of war? So Code Pink has several campaigns.

We have our peace in Ukraine, coalition campaign, We have Palestine. We have China's not our enemy. Cut the Pentagon and abolish the F-35, a lot of different campaigns, a Latin American campaign. We also have a campaign to end the Cuba blockade. And that is the sanctions of all sanctions. We've seen for well over 50 years, the United States imposed a brutal embargo on Cuba. Sanctions are really objectionable on several grounds. One is that they sometimes are a means. of softening an economy, a country's economy, so that we can then further intervene in that country militarily, as we saw in Iraq. Sanctions are a form of collective punishment, and oftentimes they impact civil society the most. So people can't get medicine, they can't get food, they can't get fuel, they can't get agricultural products. And in many ways, it's a strangulation of their economy. Now, those who support sanctions will say, well, you know, the United States exempts food and medical assistance from these sanctions. But that's, that's

deceptive because banks do not want a loan to countries that are under sanctions. They're fearful of being targets of secondary sanctions on the part of the U.S. government. And those secondary sanctions can be as much as a, you know, one and a half million dollars for each violation. So, So here you have a situation like in Cuba. I went there about a decade ago, and I was really taken aback. I don't know why I should have been, but I was at seeing the level of poverty there because of these sanctions, at seeing people, kids begging for pencils, old men begging for soap, because they're hard to come by. What would it take to lift the embargo?

It would take a stroke of the pen. the Biden administration could do that. You know, they were lifted partially under Carter, and I believe Obama eased some of these restrictions. The Biden administration has been very slow. They used some of the restrictions on remittances on sending money back to Cuba. But, you know, here we have a pandemic. A global pandemic, Cuba, which is an innovator of technology and medicine, has come up with its own vaccine and yet doesn't have the syringes to administer. the vaccine. Why? Because of the embargo. Because Trump assigned Cuba to the state sponsor of

terrorism list. And Biden has yet to take Cuba off that list. That's ridiculous. Cuba exports medicine, doctors, not terror. So we say lift these sanctions on Cuba and all the other countries. We have over 20 countries that are under U.S. sanctions. They might be sanctions against whole countries like Syria, like North Korea, like Cuba. They could be. be sanctions against individuals. They could be sanctions against certain sectors, technology sectors of different countries. And we have a state department that perhaps it was designed initially to be a department that focuses on diplomacy. It is now really just a second reward department. You know, every time I check in on Twitter, and I look at Secretary of State Anthony Blinken's Twitter account,

I invariably see a message, oh, we're imposing more sanctions on this country or that country. And ultimately, these sanctions often backfire. We look at Russia. You know, the United States has imposed all these sanctions on Russia following, well, following its annexation of Crimea in 2014, which came in the aftermath of the U.S. backed coup that overthrew a democratically elected president in Ukraine. So what's the result of the U.S. sanctions on Russia? Russia is selling oil to other countries. Now, they have plenty of customers. In the end, these sanctions, often hurt the people who are less able to fend them off, right? So, end these sanctions. Thanks, Marcy. I wanted to ask you, we typically don't think of labor as playing a role in anti-war organizing. Those are usually organized as two separate issues, right? War is something international while labor is an issue that's domestic. So what role does labor play in anti-war organizing and how can it be expanded? And what examples are there of anti-war labor unions or labor movements doing anti-war work in the U.S. or around the world? Yeah, great question.

I would say, you know, first and foremost, the reality is we're paying for the war crimes of these, you know, mega rich armed dealers, these lobbyists, the politicians out of our own pocket, right? Billions and billions of dollars while working families in this country are just struggling with basic access to, you know, human needs and services. And these endless wars, you know, it just leads to our own suffering. And good organizers, you know, know, know how to connect these dots. You know, we see these corporations eating us. mom and pop shops, growing massive in size, destroying labor standards and sort of like this global race to the bottom. And they'll go to any corner of the globe to get access to cheap

labor. So the workers struggle, the union struggle is it has to be a global one. And we have to stand shoulder to shoulder with the most vulnerable workers in our society, you know, no matter where they lived, because it's also in our, in our own personal interests, Right. I think, you know, we do have to redefine sort of this mainstream understanding of what it means to be union. A lot of folks do think it's just economic issues, you know, these sort of bread and butter issues that solely focus on wages and benefits. But, you know, in more recent years, I think we're seeing people break out of that molds. When we see the union as, you know, not just fighting for a contract, which, by the way, is incredibly important, right? Having a union contract. significantly increases the living and working standards of workers in this country. But the union can be so much more than that. It's also a machine for humanity. It really is.

And in order to fight in the interests of working people everywhere, we have to have a global perspective on how we approach the work. And so like any fight, you know, we have to build it. It doesn't magically appear. U.S. organized labor is riddled with sort of contradictory, a contradictory in complex history, but from, you know, the Bay Area, longshore workers fighting against apartheid in South Africa to my own organization, leading the struggle to get the AFLCIO to formally stand against the Iraq war for the first time

in history, standing against a war, any war. We know that when we organize, when we educate, when we build these worker-to-worker ties, we can win and we can stand. the right side of history. So, you know, in more modern day, anybody who's listening who's connected to a labor organization can join an organization like mine and be a part of that fight. Yeah. I also wanted to ask you, how has U.S. labor against racism and war organized specifically around the issue of the war in Ukraine with respect to labor? I mean, has it been difficult doing that? Admittedly, yes. I think this particular issue has been challenging for us. It's similar to like other anti-war orgs because it's

both because it's a proxy war. It's a war over there, right? There are body bags coming back to our country and the bomb just the bombarding of lives and propaganda from the corporate mainstream media. It's very confusing. I do think there's a very empathetic reaction. People want to do the right thing and support the Ukrainian people. But we have to clarify for folks what's actually going on and what it means to stand in solidarity with the Ukrainian people because the corporate narrative that we've been fed is not it. So we've been working with affiliates and union members and helping pass like pro-worker resolutions on this issue, doing educational sessions. Because that's like baseline where we're starting is a lot of people don't really even know what's going on. and they're not getting the information that they need.

We're sort of arming people with resources to effectively have these conversations with their colleagues at the job site. And I actually feel like right now is about the time when people are awakening to what's really going on. And we're hoping to have a great turnout at the March 18th rally. Yeah, yeah. The messaging around this rally around the war in Ukraine is a really difficult one because it's not like the war. war in Iraq where the American government is sending its own citizens to die in a country across the world. The U.S. is waging a proxy war against Russia and doing so by flooding the country with billions and billions of dollars of weapons to send Ukrainians to die in its own war against

Russia. So I think that a lot of people see that they want to support the Ukrainian people. Yeah, it's a difficult messaging. But I find that sometimes, you know, like, if we take it, if we look at it from a labor perspective and we look at Zelensky's policies in Ukraine, you know, like he has been really like ramming through this neoliberal program like on the part of the IMF to really weaken weaker, to really weaken workers' rights and dismantle those kinds of labor protections over the years. in order to attract foreign investment for Western corporations. Yeah, so that's just what I wanted to add. Yes, and if I can, I'll piggyback on you talked about privatization. And it's in black and white in these strategic partnerships that first Secretary of State Lincoln signed with his counterpart in Ukraine in September of 2021.

And November of President Biden and Zelenskyy signed a separate. similar document that said, right there, you know, our agenda in Ukraine is to privatize it. The United States wants to help privatize Ukraine. So, excuse me, this notion that we are there to support democracy and workers and, you know, the common people. This is ridiculous. Look, what has happened? The United States has encouraged Ukraine to break up about 400 nationally held companies so that foreign investors can come and raid their economy. At the top, Zelensky has a menu. He has a website with a menu of the type of foreign investment that they are most interested in. And at the top of that list is, well, they call it defense. I would call it military.

Okay. So we have a situation where we're supposed to be supporting democracy in Ukraine. And believe made. Code Pink opposes this war just as we oppose all the provocations that led to it. But we're very clear that we do not support weakening workers' rights. As you mentioned earlier,

since Zelensky came to power, he has made it very difficult for workers in companies with 250 employees or less to unionize. I think it's actually outlawed. The opposition press has been shut down. You can

be an opposition leader in Ukraine right now. You know, this is the level of democracy. It's under martial law. If you are anywhere between the ages of 18 and 60 and a male, you can be dragged from your car and sent to the front lines. You want to leave? Forget it, right? Now, in Russia, we see hundreds of thousands. I've read 700,000 men have left Russia to avoid conscription. And in the end, And I think the message is that a proxy war between the United States and Russia, the two most nuclear armed nations of the world, have, they present about 90% of nuclear weapons, if not more. A proxy war to support either of them is really a war against the working class. It's a war against working men who are being conscripted to fight for oligarchs, billionaires, whatever you want to call them. So at Code Pink, we've been very involved, as I mentioned, in organizing this peace in Ukraine coalition, which includes DSA International Committee, it includes Veterans for Peace, Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, Progressive Democrats in America, World Beyond War, Roots Action, and many, many others. And what we have been focusing on is being visible, just as we want people to be visible on March 18th, be it indeed.

at that rally in front of the White House at 1 p.m. Or in Los Angeles, in front of CNN, there's going to be a rally on March 18th. In front of different symbolic edifices in Ann Arbor, Chicago, Detroit, and on and on, San Francisco. We think that unless people see you, they don't know you're there. They may not hear you. We see such a silencing of opposition voices in corporate media. You turn on cable television. and you're going to see a parade of generals talking about how we can win this war.

Interestingly, the top general, the chair of the Joint Chiefs, Mark Millie, has actually said we can't that there is no military solution, certainly not in the next few years. So he's urging the White House lead diplomatic efforts. What do we see instead? We see China coming up with a peace platform, a 12-point peace platform. I read that platform. I thought, wow, this is really, who could have? oppose this. Of course, the first thing out of Biden's mouth, when he read it, if he read it, was this is irrational and immediately dismissed it. And more and more, we're seeing the United States government, those in Congress, the hawksion Congress, the neo-conservatives in the Biden administration. And I would count among them, Jake Sullivan, National Security Advisor Anthony Blinken, Secretary of State, Victoria Newland, number three in the State Department. We can talk about her. More and more we're seeing them.

in a desperate attempt to hold on to U.S. hegemony. You know, Victoria Newland, coat pink, we just issued a petition. We're asking people to sign our petition, women don't let women drive war, fire Victoria Newland. She has a long history of fomenting war. She was Dick Cheney, remember him, Vice President during the Iraq War under George Bush. She was his policy advisor. Then she later became involved in Afghanistan, and she traveled Europe, urging countries to support the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan as a coalition that we could win in Afghanistan. What happened? We went through nearly 20 years later, stole their money, countries broke, and 6 million people are facing starvation in Afghanistan.

In Ukraine, Victoria Nuland, why do we want her fire? Because we saw her in 2014. She was in the square in Maidan during that. Some people call it an uprising. Other people call it a coup. It was certainly involved people who were concerned about corruption in Ukraine. They have legitimate concerns. But then we see white nationalists hijacking this uprising. The president who had been democratically elected.

Victor Yanukovych, he fled under a hail of bullets. And that's when we saw the annexation. two weeks later of Crimea by Russia. Russia has a naval fleet there. It's had, actually, Crimea has been part of Russia for nearly 200 years. So in Sevastopol, that's where Russia's naval fleet is. This is a red line for Putin. And for Victoria Newland to now be campaigning and promising Ukraine that the United States is going to fund attacks on Crimea is really a prescription for a much wider war involving Poland or Romania and potentially World War III involving nuclear nations. So this is an urgent call

to anyone who's listening that we need you to join us. Join us at the answer coalition. Join us at people's forum at other organizations. Join us at codpink.org. Join us at peace in Ukraine.org and get involved because we need, we need everybody involved. Yeah, absolutely. And one thing I can add here in terms of what DSA has been kind of doing. One thing that we really try to to center our work around in the past year has been really coordinating with with what anti-war and peace and left wing organizations in the U.S. and in Europe and around the world have been doing. We think it's incredibly important to build this movement. both here and around the world and to

to really coordinate more with, uh, with all of these organizations. I mean, you know, there's been, there's been like all of these sort of like strange kind of contention around the war in Ukraine, like even among people like, uh, you know, generally like on the left, which I found just generally weird. Um, I mean, if you, I don't know if people remember, but if you think back to before the invasion and in January, You know, there was this, like, campaign that involved, like, it was something like over 100 anti-war organizations in the U.S. that put out this letter to the Biden administration urging against, you know, against U.S. escalations and militarization and really focusing on stressing the need for diplomacy.

I mean, you know, this is like all of the organizations that are doing this work in the U.S. were. we're putting out this, you know, we're stressing these points. And since that as well, in Europe, the, like the party of the European left, the European left in the European left in the EU of parliament. I mean, all of these parties in Europe are all, you know, saying the same thing that we need to to stop these escalations. In Germany, the left party has been, like, opposing the, you know, The increased militarization that is now taking place in Germany, increased military spending, as well as kind of, you know, escalating military aid to Ukraine, now including tanks.

I was in Romania, where I'm from, I was there in September. People are incredibly worried about where this war is heading and the possibilities of it escalating. into a much longer, a long conflict, which is really impacting people in Ukraine, of course, and across the region and the whole world really at this point. I mean, people in Romania were talking about how, like, they don't know what to do with how much their, like, utility prices are increasing and the cost of energy is, something like 10 times what it was last year for a lot of people and a lot of this is sort of you know in like the mainstream media people avoid the you know what what people like working class people in in eastern Europe

are saying and they really make it seem as though like people are like ready for some sort of like bigger war with Russia as though you know the as though like this conflict is going to turn into some sort of, you know, they frame it as though like Ukraine is like defending Europe against like an imminent like Russian invasion or something. It's like ridiculous. I mean, and especially when you look at, I think it's been really interesting to see what some of the labor unions in Europe have been doing like in Greece and in Italy where like very militant labor movements and unions have been protesting the like the use of um of um of like the ports being used for for shipping

military aid and being at one point it was being disguised as like humanitarian aid um and over the past year there's been like kind of ongoing protest by by these labor movements um which which i think has been kind of inspiring to see in in the u.s. the um it's harder, I think, in the U.S. to sort of politicize labor unions, but I think, like, we've met with some over the past year, and we've, like, coordinated with, um, with some of the unions here that are doing this kind of work. I, I think we've seen, like, good statements coming out of, of some of them, like the AFL, CIO in Western Massachusetts, put out a great anti-war statement, I thought. And I think those those, those, those, those, Those sorts of initiatives are important to like highlight, and this is really what the left is doing, and it's what all of these organizations have been working on. And, yeah, I think the kind of attempts to make this into a sort of controversial topic. I don't really buy it.

I mean, when you look at leaders in Latin America and across the world, like Lula and Petro in Colombia, I mean, everyone is basically saying the same thing that we need peace. We can't be like, we can just, you know, fuel this war and we need, like, serious diplomacy to try to try to stop this from escalating. And I think to kind of open it up a bit more, maybe we, each of you could talk a bit more about some of some examples of of anti-war organizing you want to highlight around some of the other issues, you know, like around Yemen or Palestine or Iran or China, the military budget, which seems to just be endlessly increasing U.S. bases around the world, stuff like that for people to

kind of know what sort of work you've been, what other work you've been doing since Ukraine is not the only war and not the only anti-war of efforts that is ongoing right now. Gerard, I will piggyback off of what you've said and just add a little bit more to it on the issue of Palestine in particular. In recent years, we've seen massive support from individuals within organized labor and also several local unions and labor councils who have taken a stand against the horrific war crimes ongoing Palestine. We've had multiple labor unions put out really strong resolutions in support of it for the first time ever in history that we've seen. So it really speaks to what happens when you do have an organized group within these

organizations that have the knowledge and the leadership and the following to both pass these resolutions and organize members and show up in the streets and take a stand against these issues. And I am very hopeful about how when you look at, you know, the data, it's like young people are incredibly pro-labor and they're pro-labor and they're progressive, you know, many young people have been really inspired by the Bernie Sanders movement. In my time, it was Occupy. So I do think people are awakening to why unions are important and why unions have to fight for broader causes outside of our own. And as, you know, we mentioned earlier, these corporations are becoming massive, right?

We see, like, what's happening with the railroad workers. They're dealing with these mega-rich corporations that have just, you know, completely destroyed these smaller mom and pop shops, smaller businesses, and they don't really care for the lives of workers, and they have no loyalty to any country. they like to think they like to tell us that loyalty to our country that they're very patriotic

but we know that's not true they don't care where they get the labor as long as it's cheap and as long as it's exploited and you know there are areas of our own of our own country

where people can't drink the water you know where there's literally chemicals poisoning our communities and it's because of it's the same same corporations that are causing this. So I'm very inspired by young people in their sort of vision for the world, their vision for their unions. And I really encourage folks to just get

organized. Like that is the only way that we can fight back is through our organization. And it's no different, you know, in the labor world. And we see it in Europe as, as you mentioned. I want to just add that there are people like, as you mentioned, in the labor movement who do oppose U.S. policy of funding this war in Ukraine. But oftentimes people feel isolated. At least that's what I've heard, you know. So we have to break through that isolation and we have to give people encouragement and a place to channel their energy and support. So they don't feel like they're operating in a silo, whether they're in a labor union or in a church or, you know, in any kind of institution. As I mentioned, I co-chair with Bert Nour, who's involved in the DSA International

Committee, the Peace in Ukraine Coalition. And we have people participating in. We have bi-monthly calls, the first and, excuse me, third Wednesday at the month, 1230 Pacific, 330 Eastern. You can sign up at peaceandukrain.org. And we hear from people all over the country. Sometimes they feel isolated. They may be in the South. They may be in the Midwest. And I said, well, what do we do? You know, we just buy our shelves here. And my response is, you've got to find people to organize ways. You might need just two other people. We have a petition on our website, which calls for a ceasefire and no more weapons to Ukraine. And a few of us have taken that petition out to our local farmer's market.

We approach people, we engage them, and we've gotten plenty of signatures, which we then deliver to our Congress member's office. Beyond that, those signatures are valuable because they form the base of your anti-war organizing. We cannot look to somebody else to do the work. It's us. It's up to us. So I would encourage people to do that. And with our peace in Ukraine coalition, we have a lot of resources and tools that people can use, including resolutions, as Yasmin mentioned, that you can introduce to a labor union to a church,

you know, modify it, revise it, put your own stamp on it. But start the conversation, because where is this war going in Ukraine? We have no idea. Nobody seems to know who's championing the selling, not the selling, sending them weapons. we see Biden saying, we're not, we're not going to send this weapon. And then he reverses himself constantly. And the Hawks in Congress, who run the Senate Armed Services Committee and the House Armed Services Committee are the biggest cheerleaders for the military contractors. And in fact, those contractors, the top five, Raytheon, Norse of Grumman, General Dynamics,

Boeing, Lockheed Martin, they're paying these politicians' campaigns, right? So it's like an auction in Congress. Now, I would say if you're going to focus your energy, it's probably most valuable to focus it on your house representative, because, well, it's supposed to be the people's house, and they are supposed to be more concerned about what their constituent actually think, because they have smaller, they're not small, but smaller areas or districts. Code Pink. We are also involved in other campaigns. Palestine, we're focusing, right now, we recruited a wonderful new leader for our Palestine campaign. You can meet her at codepank.org, and she's focusing on the birthright Israel trips for those who may not be familiar with these.

These are trips that are offered, quote, free, not free, free to young Jewish students, high school, college, to come on over to Israel and see this beautiful country. You'll never meet a Palestinian in the West Bank. go to Gaza. And people in, if not now, that's an organization like Jewish Voice for Peace that's challenging the policies, the apartheid policies of Israel. They walked off, they actually orchestrated a walk off of one of these, if not now tours, excuse me, of one of these birthright Israel tours. So idea that Jews have a birthright, and I am Jewish, to settle in Israel while Palestinians who were purged in 1948 and their ancestors, their descendants cannot visit Palestine, where their houses were. This is nothing short of how outrageous. I'd like to talk about China for a minute, because Coat Pink has a China is not our enemy campaign. And there are people in Congress, there are Republicans, I think 57, who voted against sending more weapons to Ukraine in one of the more recent boats. However, some of them say, you know, we don't want to get involved with this proxy war because the real target is China.

we don't know what the motivations are. Some of them, yes. Massey, we ran Paul. They may be a non-interventionist, but a lot of them do want to, they want a proxying war with China, not a proxion war, direct war, rather. So what are we doing in Code Pink? Well, we're educating people because a lot of people don't understand that for over 50 years, the United States, has had a one China policy, signed by Richard Nixon, the Shanghai communique, that said, we recognize that Taiwan is part of China. Now, what's happening? Congress is shipping $10 billion worth of weapons to Taiwan to prepare for a military confrontation with China. Victoria Newland, number three in the

State Department, who I mentioned earlier, she recently went to Sri Lanka. Why does she go to Sri Lanka? To sell Sri Lanka on supporting a U.S. war with China. She's visiting Nepal. Why is she visiting Nepal? The same reason. The United States. States wants to set up a military base in Sri Lanka. We already have 250 military bases surrounding China, but apparently that's not enough. These people are very busy, and we need to get busy, too. Okay. They are preparing for a war over who will rule the world. Okay? But, you know, the U.S. Empire is in decline. He hasn't been talked about the conditions in the United States. Look at

we're on, you know, look at East Palestine. Palestine, Browner. Look at the people in Flint, Michigan. Their water is still contaminated. Millions of people in California have to resign themselves to contaminated water. Not in California, so I'm well aware of that. So there's so

much at home that we need to invest in and take care of. But meanwhile, we're sending all these weapons overseas and preparing to take on China. A word about China. China is an industrial giant, a country of 1.5 billion people, the largest exporter in the world, the capital of semiconductors. We're going to take on China. This is madness. We see the rising formation of the BRICS countries. Bricks, what does that stand for? Brazil, Russia, India, China, South

Africa. They may have different forms of government, but they know that they don't want a unipolar world with the U.S. in charge. Okay? And so they're looking at alternative banking systems, alternative currencies. And this could well be the end of the U.S. Empire. Let's see what unfolds. We don't want a multipolar world of authoritarian governments, but we certainly don't want a unipolar world where the United States can use its economic leverage, it's dollar to force submission on the part of the global south or anywhere in this world. Yeah, Marcy, the other thing I wanted to add to what you said on the topic of how do we fight back, you know, how do we build and kind of a front that actually stands on the side of foreign working people around the world, I, you know, one place I look to, which I've been drawn from in recent news is what's happening in France. you know the attacks on their pensions they're shutting the entire country down and their unions are at the helm of the struggle right and it's interesting because their union density is less than ours i think it's 7% in france whereas here i think we have around 10% union density um so you know i do think there's a conversation that needs to be had around where do we have like strategic leverage right

around these issues. So when we look at like logistical workers, rail workers, transportation workers, we talked about dock workers, education and health care workers are a huge portion, make up a huge portion of our economy. You know, there are workers within strategic sectors that can really have a global impact, even if they're organized in small numbers. So there's such important lessons and inspirations we can draw from the international working class, from unions of federations abroad that we can apply here in our own country. Yes. And, you know, I'd love to see the ILWU blocked some weapons shipments to Ukraine. And, you know, I'm a teacher. I'm a retired teacher. I was active in my union,

United Teachers of Los Angeles. I'll be going to a union rally on Wednesday in Los Angeles. I'm about two hours outside of L.A. And I remember after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, we conducted a day-long teaching that was well received and attended by a lot of teachers. And I think that this suggestion that we have teachings within the unions, as you mentioned, is just an excellent one because we do need to educate people. It's hard to distill the information about the war in Ukraine in a sentence. So a day-long teaching would be great. Yeah, and just a, sorry, just a quick example that I thought was great to see in terms of labor union

anti-war resolutions PSC CUNY, the professional staff Congress of CUNY, which represents about 30,000 faculty and staff for the city of University of New York. They've released some resolutions which have been really good last year. One was for no Cold War with China and there was another one

on Palestine for like BDS solidarity and I think like those sorts of efforts like politicize labor unions like that I think are are really good and people should try to learn from them. Yeah. And if I could, I wanted to piggy back off of a point that Marcy made a few minutes ago that we really need to name and understand, which is the role of the military contractors in these types of conflicts and the staggering amount of money that they have at their disposal. Like, the influence of this source of funding

can't be overstated, and it quite literally steers the U.S. foreign policy agenda, right? And by defense contractors, by military contractors, I don't necessarily mean, like, the manufacturing of weapons, although that's a really big part of it, too.

But I'm talking about, like, this entire industry where, you know, companies, you know, you have companies like Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Airbus, B.A.E. They make weapons. But there are also companies like Rolls-Royce that provide military airplane engines. There are companies like Oracle that provide cloud services or information technology services. There are telecoms companies like AT&T that provide satellites and other kinds of technology for. gathering intelligence, and some of these companies are also in the business of producing intelligence analysis for the CIA. So they have a staggering amount of money at their proposal, and what do they do with it? They spend it on political lobbying so that politicians will vote in favor of their pro-war agenda and vote for more war so that these defense companies can get more contracts and make more money. They also throw their money at

think tanks, which write policy reports to, which right policy reports to influence legislation and really drive the U.S. foreign policy agenda. And, you know, these think tanks also, you know, they'll send representatives to corporate media. to cable news shows as experts in foreign policy. So this money also has a way of shaping public perception and manufacturing consent for war for these military contractors. And so they have like millions and millions of dollars in funding to raise the alarm on U.S. enemy nations.

And then, you know, they throw millions of dollars. of dollars in political lobbying each year. And this is why the U.S. is always in a constant state of war, right? And this is why we're constantly inundated with propaganda around the China threat. This is why the U.S. is sending billions of dollars in weapons to Ukraine, sending Ukrainians to die in this like unwinnable proxy war against Russia. Because the purpose of these kinds of wars is not necessarily to win, right? The purpose of these wars is to prolong the war as long as possible in order to deliver as much profit to these military contractors for as long as they can, regardless of the human cost. And, you know, like, how do you even begin to

confront that kind of machine, that industry that creates profit out of war. It's a huge industry. And, you know, like the only thing that we can do to even hope to confront something like that is to get organized. That is the very first step. I guess that leads me to, you know, our last question, which maybe like that sort of partially answers. But why is it important to build the anti-war movement in your eyes and how can people get involved and how do you see the March 18th rally as a step toward doing so? And then, Jasmine, if you want to start off. I was saying that was so well said, Amanda, and so important for everybody to know what's actually happening behind the scenes and how people, a small handful of people are

profiting off of human suffering. So why is it important to build the anti-war movement? I would say it's not just important. It's our duty to build the anti-war movement because it's always poor working people who suffer from these wars, you know? The wealthy just continue to, as you said, just enrich themselves on these military contracts. We all have an interest in a peaceful world where the United States

plays a positive role towards economic and social justice for people in our country and around the world, you know, and as working people, we have the power to fight for that kind of worlds. And March 18th is just one step to show which side we're really on. So at U.S. Labor Against Racism and War, our work and principles are strongly centered in the lessons drawn from Dr. King that we cannot separate the evils of racism from the evils of poverty, from the evils of war. The greatest action of solidarity working people in the U.S. and around the world can take is just by standing together and, you know, telling our leaders that we are united unequivocally against this war. It is not in our interests, and it's not in the

interests of people anywhere. So it's the, we use the word solidarity a lot, you know, within labor, and it really, truly is our solidarity that can pave the future between working people around the globe. So to me, there's a choice and the choice is clear. You know, it's either we allow these mega-rich corporations to destroy our communities, to militarize, militarize our communities, to kill and scapegoat workers abroad, or we can fight back and we can get organized. with, you know, organizations on our side and within the labor world with our fellow unionists. So I'll be there at the march, and I really hope listeners will also join us. Yes, and to add to that, thank you, yes.

I mean, you know, people can be cynical, and they might say, you know, what good can come of this? What can I do on just one person? It'll never change and on and on. Cynicism is disempowering. And we have to remember, you know, people say, you know, we'll see. said slavery, we would never abolish slavery. People said women would never gain the right to vote. It's a matter of will and we need everybody to step up. In CodePank, we have a pledge. We ask people to sign who are in office that they will refuse money from the military industrial

complex, principally the five largest military contractors. We ask, we have a divest from the war machine campaign where people are lobbying their local city councils to not invest in military contractors, get the pension money out of those industries, the war industry. So there are things that we can do on the micro level in terms of, I just want to also add to what Amanda had said about the think tanks. One thing that's really important is to expose what's happening, right? Because as you mentioned, there's all this manufactured consent and propaganda, indoctrination. So it's important that we educate ourselves. And when we talk about think tanks, we have to look at the Center for New American Security. It doesn't have a big budget. I think it's about $5 billion.

But its small budget belies its outsized influence. It populates these administrations. Victoria Newland, who I mentioned before, number three in the State Department who's selling a tax on Crimea. She would is the former CEO of the Center for a New American Security. Another person who was up for the job for Department of Defense, to lead the Department of Defense, and is still very influential in that realm. She wrote an essay on how the United States has to be prepared to fight simultaneous large theater wars against Russia and China. This is the thinking that's emanating from the Center for New American Security when Kamal Harris ran for president. She

picked Michelle Flournoy to be one of her advisors. Flournoy is the one who wrote that essay about being able to fight large simultaneous wars. Now, the Center for New American Security recently conducted war games with Meet the Press to wargame a U.S. war over Taiwan with China. Okay? So we have to talk about this. We have to learn about it. We have to talk about it and expose what's going on.

How can people get involved? Sign up at codpink.org. Pick the campaign you're most interested in. and we will reach out to you. You can sign up at peace in ukraine.org. Join us for our twice-a-month calls on Wednesday, Code PING Congress, rather, which I coordinate with Medea Benjamin and Massachusetts Peace Action, Cole Harrison.

We look at foreign policy. Everything from, you know, what's happening in Cuba, how to lift the embargo, to how to end the war in Ukraine, how to avoid a war in China, how to advance equal rights for all in Israel, Palestine. And we talk about that, the first and third Tuesday of the month, 5 p.m. Pacific, 8 p.m. Eastern. And that is, we learn about that at codpink.org forward slash codpink Congress. And lastly, I just want to promote Code Pink Radio.

I am one of the co-producers. We focus on foreign policy and demilitarization, also getting off of these fossil fuels and fighting the climate crisis or thwarting the climate crisis. and you can learn about that at codepink.org as well. Now, I want to add, you know, this idea of solidarity is super important, as Yasmin was talking about within the labor movement. It's also super important, as we see, to express solidarity internationally. And interestingly, I was invited to speak this morning with the number one 24-7-hour news channel in Sri Lanka. You know, I got this invitation, and I thought, well, this is really interesting. And then I started reading what's been going on in Sri Lanka.

You know, they're deep in debt. The United States has a controlling influence in the International Monetary Fund. And when nations turn to the IMF for loans, typically they'll be told, okay, you have to adopt these austerity measures. So if we give you money, that means you need to freeze pay for three years. You need to slash government services for health care. and you need to tax people who can't afford these taxes, right? And then along comes Samantha Powell, who's head of the U.S. AID program and Victoria Newland Provising, oh, you know, we can help you.

We've got some extra cash. We've got a few billion we can throw at you. Why don't you let us set up a military base here, whether it's a hardwareed, hardware military base or a pop-up base at that. More and more, that's what they're talking about. They want pop-up bases surrounding China in case they want to go to. war with China. And so it was really interesting, you know, and I felt fruitful to be on this program that will be aired in Sri Lanka to say that there is an anti-war movement in the United States

who opposes these 750 military bases around the world, who opposes new military bases. We see one opening up in the Guam for 5,000 Marines. We see more in the Philippines. It's important for people to know in other countries that there is an anti-war movement in the United States. and that we stand with them in opposing U.S. militarism. So thank you so much for having me on this program. It's a great honor to be on with you, Gerard, Amanda, and Nesvine. And I do encourage everybody to come out March 18th. You can learn more about it at the Answer Coalition website at codpink.org at peace and

ukraine.org. There are sister rallies all over the country. So either show up in D.C. or one of the sister rallies. It's so important. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Now more than ever, we really need to build a multinational working class anti-war movement. And, you know, that's the only way we can even hope to confront the U.S. war machine.

And we are asking listeners to build this movement with us on Saturday, March 18th, at 1 p.m. in front of the White House. If you need transportation, answer is coordinating buses going to D.C. from different cities along the East Coast. And you can find all that. information on our website at answercoolition.org. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you both for joining us and talking about these crucial issues. I really want to highlight what Marcy was saying about fighting pessimism. I think that's so important. I think you really see a lot of people are just, especially when it comes to foreign policy, they're just pessimistic about the prospects of really fighting against U.S. Empire.

But I think there's a lot to be optimistic about, I know elected representatives in the U.S. aren't always so great on all of these issues. But I think lately, you know, for my work in DSA, I've seen a lot of good movement on that. We've had a great campaign we're working on right now on opposing U.S. military bases in Okinawa that we had over 40 elected representatives on the state and local level sign on to support that. and we are hopefully working with AOC on something on that. She just met with the governor of Okinawa recently. So there's a lot of movement on a lot of things, including like BDS. And I think there's a lot to be optimistic about and people should seriously consider if they're not already involved with joining these organizations

and getting involved with these anti-war organizing efforts. and I hope people join us next week I think the work that all of these organizations have been doing is extremely important right now and it's up to all of us to build this working class anti-war movement so unless either of you have any closing remarks

or you want to let people know where they might follow your work or anything sure you can follow me at Marcy Winnegrad on Twitter and Code Pink on Twitter as well our organizations handle is at Labor fights back. Labor Against Racismidward.org is our website. And for anybody who's in a union or connected to a labor organization, we have monthly

member interest meetings. If you sign up on our listserv, you'll get that information. And you can get plugged in that way. Great. Thank you both. This has been Gorilla Radio, and we will catch you all in D.C. on March 18. phone You want it more

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