Guerrilla History - Indian Farmers' Protest Retrospective w/ Sandeep Rauzi and Santosh Kumar: Dispatch

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

In this episode of Guerrilla History, we bring on Santosh Kumar and Sandeep Rauzi of workersunity.com to give a retrospective look at the massive Indian Farmers' Protests that went on for over a year, from the perspective of journalist activists on the ground! We discuss the conditions of Indian agricultural workers before the protests, the "Farm Bills" that sparked the protests, what the protests were like, and what has happened since the Indian government has dropped the proposed bills!    Sandeep Rauzi and Santosh Kumar are activists and citizen journalists that helped co-found Workers' Unity - an independent media platform dedicated to the struggles of the toiling masses, which focused heavily on the Farmers' Protests.  In addition to their website workersunity.com, you can also find them on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/workersunity, and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/WorkersUnity18.  Help spread the word about their media collective!   Guerrilla History is the podcast that acts as a reconnaissance report of global proletarian history, and aims to use the lessons of history to analyze the present. If you have any questions or guest/topic suggestions, email them to us at [e-mail].   Your hosts are immunobiologist Henry Hakamaki, Professor Adnan Husain, historian and Director of the School of Religion at Queens University, and Revolutionary Left Radio's Breht O'Shea.   Follow us on social media! Our podcast can be found on twitter @guerrilla_pod, and can be supported on patreon at https://www.patreon.com/guerrillahistory. Your contributions will make the show possible to continue and succeed!   To follow the hosts, Henry can be found on twitter @huck1995, and also has a new Youtube show/podcast he cohosts with our friend Safie called What The Huck?!, which can be found on youtube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA7YUQWncZIB2nIeEunE31Q/ or major podcast apps at https://anchor.fm/what-the-huck.  Adnan can be followed on twitter @adnanahusain, and also runs The Majlis Podcast, which can be found at https://anchor.fm/the-majlis, and the Muslim Societies-Global Perspectives group at Queens University, https://www.facebook.com/MSGPQU/.   Breht is the host of Revolutionary Left Radio, which can be followed on twitter @RevLeftRadio and cohost of The Red Menace Podcast, which can be followed on twitter @Red_Menace_Pod.  Follow and support these shows on patreon, and find them at https://www.revolutionaryleftradio.com/.    Thanks to Ryan Hakamaki, who designed and created the podcast's artwork, and Kevin MacLeod, who creates royalty-free music.

You remember Den Bamboo? No! The same thing happened in Algeria, in Africa. They didn't have anything but a rank. The French had all these highly mechanized instruments of warfare. But they put some guerrilla action on. Hello and welcome to guerrilla history, the podcast that acts as a reconnaissance report of global proletarian history and aims to use the lessons of history to analyze the present.

This is a sort of guerrilla history dispatch. It's kind of in between a dispatch and an intelligence briefing for our longtime listeners. You'll know what both of those episode formats are. But this will be in between because you'll see why. It's a little bit of a retrospective dispatch in certain ways. In any case, I'm your host, Henry Huckimacki, joined by one of my two usual co-hosts, Professor Adnan Hussein, is starring and director of the School of Religion at Queen's University in Ontario, Canada.

Hello, Adnan. How are you doing today? I'm really well, Henry. It's great to be with you, and I'm really excited for our conversation with our two guests today. Absolutely. It's a long overdue conversation. Before we bring in our guests, I just want to mention that our other co-host, Brett O'Shea was unfortunately not able to make it today.

But if you're not, listeners, he'll be back on the show very, very soon. So we have two guests today to talk about something that happened just over a year ago at this point. And went on for over a year, which is the farmers protests in India. We are joined by Sandeep Rousey and Santosh Kumar. Welcome to the show, Sandeep and Santososh. It's nice to have you both on here. Would you be willing to introduce yourselves briefly, to our listeners. I guess let's start with Sandeep and then we can go to Santosh.

Thank you, Adnan Henry. We are very grateful to express our idea here with you. I am Sandeep Raouzi from India and I am a professional journalist, but we are working with the labor media which we have initiated since last four years. And And through that plate form, we have covered a lot of things which happened in Farmer's Movement in India, in the National Capital of India, Delhi. So we will be happy to share our experiences with audience, your audience. Thank you. Thank you, Andy. And Arnan, it's nice to be here. Thanks for having us. So myself, Santhos, I'm based in Delhi. I'm by training a biostatistician and also a tradewin activist.

I have been active in a tradewin movement for last 15 years in Delhi at home well industrial area. And for last four years, me and Deep and some of the friends have started this media platform for Workerunity. And we have been involved in farmers movement throughout the year and we'll happy to share our experience, whatever we will have. Thank you. Absolutely. And I will recommend the listeners right now to check. check out workers unity.com and we'll pitch that again at the end of the show because that's where you can find more from Sandit and Santosh. So let's get into this episode now. Of course,

the topic that we're going to be talking about is the farmers protests, but I think that it would be useful to start before the farmers protests and talk about the state of the peasantry, the conditions in the agricultural sector. And the agricultural sector in India is really interesting in general, just as a brief aside, as I was doing some research for the show, I had found that the agricultural sector in India after independence for about 20 years was an absolute mess. In fact, about a quarter of U.S. wheat that was being exported was being exported to India, which is kind of astounding for us to think about, considering that starting in the late 60s and really starting in the 70s, India became an agricultural powerhouse and was one of the

leading exporters of many different food commodities, wheat, particularly rice, as well as other things. But we also have a very, very large peasantry and agricultural sector in general in India, with about 40% of the workers of India being active within the agricultural sector. And I believe about 75% of individuals having an immediate family member that is active within the agricultural sector. So this is an absolutely huge sector within India. It's not like the United States where under 2% of individuals are within the agricultural sector. This is a huge. huge part of the national economy and a huge part of the labor force in the country. So let me turn it over to you two to discuss what the state of peasantry was like in the

lead up to these farm bills that we will talk about in a little bit. And what were the conditions like for workers in the agricultural sector? So I will start with myself. So basically the way you say the condition, the Indian agricultural sector is quite vast. and more than 50% of the pupils are still engaged in the agriculture by the other way. And then the way you said up to 70, there was a trade between the expo. We are importer of the wheat and food grains, and then PL84 terms was with India and the US, and then we were totally dependent on the food security also.

But later, you know, I think over the period of the 70s, 80s, over the whole world have witnessed the green revolution, which has been heavy mechanization, fertilizer used, the tractor, machinery, and there are lots of external intervention happened and investment happened in any agriculture. In India, it also happened at the same time, 70 days, but it has not been spread over the whole geographical area. It has been basically restricted to the three states, which has been the epicenter of this whole farmers movement. This is called Punjab, Haryana, and the part of the Uttar Pradesh, which is the western Uttar Pradesh. And they are the main beneficiary of the whole green revolution which happened in 70s, 80s. And then the productivity grews, and then we have been become from the importer to the exporter, and then everything went very well. and then up to 80s, 90s, things were going very smooth. People have been really earned a lot from the agriculture in these three pockets.

And then after WTO, 1991, when we have entered into the WTO agreement after GAT abolished and we have entered with the WTO terms and condition, and then the return of the airculture is also diminishing. And then we have started seeing a huge, huge crisis. in agriculture, both into the level of absolute as well as relative. And then unprecedented, catastrophic things started happening. We have witnessed the millions death in a decade of the farm suicides. And then from 1990 to 2010, the absolute devastation happened in agriculture,

and the return was diminishing peoples that are not getting any benefits due to the the availability of the credits and bureaucracive, the credit things are really haunting the farmers much. And one of the major story which is coming from the ground is basically only upon the farmer's society. And then we have a very fragmented late. We don't have land like we don't have any contract farming, like a very big skill contract farming or corporate farming. So in disguise of all these things, Modi government have. introduce a bill, which will be basically a mandate to give the, to mandate for the corporate agriculture, basically the corporate farming and contractual farming. And in the background of

all this crisis, when this bill came, which has been, we will discuss the details about these bills, but basically the threat and the interpretation of these three bills go is like three. The first, we are not going to. I interrupt, Sontosh, could I interrupt you at this moment? We will ask. you to tell us more about those bills, but I had a quick question. If you could say something, you mentioned two things that I think our listeners may not understand well. One, you very briefly mentioned that there were many, many farmer suicides that had taken place. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit more about the scale extent and why there has been such an epidemic

of farmers committing suicide. And then the second thing that you mentioned in either you or Sande perhaps could tell us about is you mentioned something about the division among agricultural workers between contract farmer farming workers and other sorts of those who work in agriculture. So perhaps you could clarify structurally that second point about who owns the land, how is the work done? Is it small farmers? Is it larger conglomerates? what amount of, you know, landless peasants work just as workers in farming but don't own the land. That would be really helpful. So those two things, I think, our listeners would be interested to know more about.

Farmer suicides. And then what is the structure of labor in the agricultural sector? So from the loan So the farm for suicide From 1921 to 2010 There is an approximation of Approx a million work Parmas has been committed to suicide

And one of our finance journalists Which is called P-Sinath has been extensively documented This whole farmland story He has written I think in the all-American media to the foreign channels, foreign newspapers And he has published many books And he is one of our chronographer for the whole primary suicide. So at least at least a million in last 15 to 20 years. So that is huge.

The one of the major reason which has been investigated is basically the loan, the institutional loan. The farmers get able to get loan from the either through the non informal setup from the village head or some kind of the some kind of informal setup or through the banking system. once the return was not able to meet or no return was able to meet through the agriculture and then the loan compound the interest got compounding up and then eventually their land has been snatched away some legal through the legal or illegal or some measures so lately it is also about the ego the male ego also was one of the play because the head of the family is not able to sustain the family.

So there are lots of things happened in between, but one of the things, and this was happened, epicenter was also in Maharashtra, one of the very industrialized state, where most of the death happened, the most of the farm suicide happened. This is the western part of India. So all these things has been compounded, the non-ability of the institutional trade aid, no subsidy, no price assurance continuously and there are lots of complex social socioeconomic issue which is also we will discuss about the caste issue how the caste is very specific phenomena in India and how this determined everything even the agricultural labour, landholding who will

get the institutional loan, who will get the power, who will get the bureaucratic setup and all. So this complex phenomena has lead to the catastrophic loss in India, which has been resulted into the huge loss of farmers last 15 years. About agricultural farmers issue, what I will say, so this is very class caste, very typical example of Indian class caste settings, if you will ever heard about the caste. So most of the landless peasantry are basically the so-called lower caste in India, which is called Settwold caste. And all the landholding caste is either the upper caste or the middle peasantry caste. So this has been a very classical division and over the period of time

the structure is getting changed because maybe the upper caste is moving to the city. They're getting to the new job. But still the Settled card is not getting the land. So Punjab, for if I will discuss about this issue, the typical state like Punjab, Punjab has the highest, the land. Settled caste, so-called over caste population in India, which is about 35%. And they are basically, and the land-owning community is Jat, which is all sick, prosperous, peasantry caste, and 33% of the Jat is holding the 90% of the land. And that is the situation. And 33% of the Dalit, they don't have any land at all, maybe 1% to 2%.

And they are totally dependent on the upper caste farms for the labor and all. And they got all kinds of atrocities. They don't get payment. They got the lower wage. They got caste atrocities, blah, blah, blah, and all these things. So this is the situation in this setup for the time. So if you want to add anything. Yeah, Sandeep, if you want to add anything to this before in the lead up to the farm bills.

Is there anything that you want to talk about about this preceding period of time? What were the material conditions like and whatnot? If you want to imagine that how the serious thing is a farmer society in India, then I would like to tell you some news or some data from 2019. In 2019, in farm sector, at least 10,000, 181 person's suicide in farm sector, which is accounting for 7.4% of the total number of suicides in India in 2019. This is the situation. And if you go through the detail, in detailing, the 2019 figure is marginally lower to 2018 when 10,348 people took their lives.

These are farmers. The story, however, changes when one looks at suicide committed by farmers, cultivators, which is 5,957 as against 5,763 in 2018. So you can imagine that how serious this situation has become in India regarding the farmer's suicide. And lately the data came, which shows that in 2019, in 17 states of India, that shows that a farm laborer, suicide of farm laborers are more than the suicide of farmers, land-ed community, you can say. So, initially, we thought that only farmers taking their lives in India because of distress in agriculture.

But latest data shows that farm laborers, landless laborers, which are, as Santos told, that these are belong, this belongs to the SCST community. they got discriminated in the society's socio-economic aspect of this is the situation like you can say that the number of a suicide by farmers are defined as those who primary source of income is through farm agriculture or horticulture or labor activities has gone down to 4,324 in 2019 from 4,586 a year before So this is the situation of farm side and Santosh rightly said that in two decades, there are nearly one million farmers to side in India.

So this is a grave situation has become. And the main regime, Modi regime of India, the main current establishment of India, they promised that this situation can be rectified through the reform in the agriculture sector. So they came up with the three farm laws, which they promised that this will transform the lives of agriculture and also landless laborers also. And in the farm protest, one-year farm protest, they also propagate the theory that the landed community is a main enemy of landless laborer. So they also use this tactic to disrupt the farmers' movement.

So this is the situation of what Adnan said that, what the situation of farmers who side in India. Right, right. Well, I think you just mentioned there as well the introduction of these three farm bills. So maybe it's time that you tell us a little bit about them. What were these bills and how did that spark the beginnings of this farmer's protest movement, which for listeners, I'm sure you're aware broadly that this was a very large protest movement, but they were protesting these bills and it lasted for well over a year. maybe 16, 18 months of protests.

So perhaps you can tell us how it started and what these bills were about. So basically the three bills which have been introduced in the Indian Parliament named as a farmers-produced trade and commerce, the first bill, a promotion and facilitation bill. So I will first tell the official name and then how it got interpreted to the masses. Because there are lots of fine trends, nuances and all these. but the way the farmers has been interpreted into all this legal and technical jargon. So I will decipher for them for you. So the first bill was the farmers produce trade and commerce promotion and facilitation bill.

The second was farmers empowerment and protection agreement on price assurance and farmer service bill. And the third one is essential commodities bill. So that was a three bill. And there are lots of details, needy-gritty, the way the parliament function and you know how the bills and technical and legal solitary language used to be. But in all these three, there are lots of clauses, subclosges and all this thing. But one of the best things happened in this Farnell protest, I think this is the true use of the public intellectual or you can say how the progressive media can help to the people's movement is the best example I have ever heard, not even seen. So what happened when these three bills introduced into the parliament, there are some people's economist, agricultural economist professors, and there is a very good newspaper in Punjabi,

the regional language of Punjab, which the script is in Punjabi, they have started writing an article about it, the opinion piece and editorial about it, and they started decipher about it, what is the technical meaning of this, that is the actual meaning of behind this technical and legal words. And lastly, this newspaper, which is called the Punjabi Tribune, have started inviting lots of pro-people's public intellectual to write about

these bills. There are very good public economists. They are teaching in some new cities, but they have been very much engaged with the farmers movement, agricultural, laborers movement, and others' movement also. So they have been very much engaged with the data, today life of the struggling workers.

So, this is what we call the public intellectual, actually. And then they started writing pamphlets, newspaper articles, opinion piece, editorials, and all. And then finally, they have come to the three basic things of the huge document. The first thing, this bill will snatched away your price insurance. Because till the time, the promise of the green revolution is basically you will get the minimum support price. So even if you will produce, if market will not purchase, if someone will not purchase,

government will purchase at the fixed prices. And this is the minimum support price. So they have interpreted with all this language, with all this technicality, the government is going to snatch away. The price is resting. The second thing is that the claim of the corporate farming and the contractual farming and all this thing, they are going to snatch up your land. because once you will

the negotiation and the discussion will be very unequal there will be an equal player because one side there will be a huge corporate their battery of the lawyers and then the another side there will be a very helpless farmers very small farmers so when there will be any dispute

you are not going to win the case and eventually we are going to lose the land to the corporate so the second interpretation goes like that so you are going to lose your land to the corporate and third the Essential Commodities Act is basically this is the consumer price setting mechanism where you can check the prices of essential commodities contrast to the inflation.

Even if inflation will rise at a certain point, the working class people or the poor people of the villages will get commodities or the rassan or food at the subsidized rate or even for the free. So these three bills will snatched away all these three basic essential things, snatching the land, snatching the price assurance and snatching the food security. And when it went out, the interpretation went out like this, the small pamphlet, burcha, discussion, meetings, holdings. And remember, this is the time of pandemic, the peak of the pandemic. This was happening in the June 2020. So there are lots of technical details of the three bills, but the way the public intellectuals have done it, to decipher it and just place the whole things.

And not just at the form of propaganda, very rightfully, very argumentatively, very brilliantly. So with regard to the price assurance mechanism, this is something that I want to spend just a little bit more time on. Because as we mentioned previously, the support for agricultural workers, farmers in India was appallingly bad, right? But the price assurance was like one of the very few mechanisms that was in place to kind of assure to, you know, for lack of a better term, that even in bad times that they would be getting a certain amount for their product, for their commodity that they're producing. Of course, it was not nearly enough. And so what I'm curious about, and perhaps Sandeep, I don't know if you've had any conversations with any

of the farmers around this specific subject, but, you know, can you talk about what was that price assurance level like for them, even before the farm bills were proposed? Because we know that it was not nearly enough for them to have like a reasonable standard of living on if it did come to using that mechanism, right? You know, obviously they wouldn't always come to that mechanism, but it was kind of the mechanism of last resort. When it came to that mechanism, it was something that was barely, barely sufficient for them to get buy on. And then how were the conversations between farmers and, you know, if you're privy to any of these conversations that were taking place, when these farm bills were introduced about

how directly that removal of that mechanism, the price assurance mechanism, would impact them. Because like we said, it was kind of a mechanism of last resort. But, you know, it did come to that at times. And they already saw that even with this mechanism of last resort in place, it was barely enough as it was. Can we imagine what it would be like not having this mechanism in place? So I don't know if you have anything that you were privy to or had any conversations regarding the specific mechanism. Yeah, sure.

Actually, first thing, we have to understand that MSP, minimum support price, is the price set by government at that minimum price they can buy the produce of agriculture produce from the farmers and in the just we have talked about the green revolution in India in the course of Green Revolution of India green revolution in India the cost of agriculture is continuously growing and The sustainability of producing the wheat, rice, and vegetables and other things are getting costlier to farmers. And when they produce wheat and when they go to general market, they get less than they

invested in the crop. So, since last three or four decades, there are huge farmers' movement in India and they pressured on the government that they should decide the minimum support price for farmers. And the minimum support price for farmers is only, it is only related to wheat and rice in India, so many farmers who produces like pulses, like oil, like other thing, they cannot get MSP. And one thing we should understand that from the farm laws, it is very clear that when corporate

welcome in the agriculture sector they want to abolish all types of a subsidy MSP is also a type of a subsidy which is given to the farmers and WTO WTO pact with India WTO already

threatens India so many times that India should be abolished all the subsidies so that that the level playing field should be established all over the world, like Indian wheat can be sold to outside, and American, Canada, Australian wheat can be sold, and agri-products can be sold in India. So this subsidy is hurting the level playing field in agriculture sector. So WTO, in the pressure of WTO, these subsidy like MSP is also a

subsidy, you know, one thing should we understand that MSP is a direct subsidy to the farmers. And WTO does not want to continue with this. Indian government give farmer subsidy in the form of a waiver of electricity bill, water and other things in a fertilizer subsidy. So in the pressure of WTO, in the pressure of world corporates, Indian government are compelled to to abolish all the subsidies in fertilizers, in electricity bill, in MSP, slowly, slowly. But this Modi government, when decided in 2020, that all the subsidies should be gone in one stroke. So they came up with these three farm agriculture laws. So that is the main crux, you know, if you want to understand the dynamics of this farm bill and MSP.

And after the hesitation ended, farmers' hesitation ended a few months ago, like last November, December, they still are demanding that MSP should be declared a legal right to farmers. and all the and farm unions are unite on this issue and only one issue is left that MSP should be declared a legal right of farmers and all the farmers union hope that further if any moment further started then the main agenda would be MSP, minimum support price. And they also connect this MSP with the public distribution system of ration. Because when government purchase on the MSP from the farmers, they sell through the PDS system to poor of India, you know, last time, In lockdown, Indian minister, finance minister said that they provided 80 crore of Indian to food grain. They provided food grain to 80 crore Indian.

It means 80 crore Indians are below poverty line in lockdown. So the PDA system is very necessary to support this poor population. So this is the dynamics I think you can understand. Yeah, I think it's worth mentioning also. You mentioned that some of these mechanisms are essentially a subsidy directly to the farmers. It's worth reminding the listeners that essentially every developed country that has an agricultural sector subsidizes their agricultural sector heavily. And the U.S. is like a prime example of this. The agricultural sector in the U.S. is very heavily subsidized.

But as you mentioned, you know, the WTO and institutions like the World Bank, they don't like subsidies for individuals. And we also see other, you know, think tanks saying things like these farm bills that were essentially trying to strip away of various subsidies to the farmers. The farm bills were actually good ideas. It was just a matter of implementing them correctly. So I had seen some Indian economists who were working at the American Enterprise Institute, which, you know, that tells you basically all you need to know about these individuals is that they're working at the American Enterprise Institute. But they're talking about things like, you know, it's fine for the U.S. to have small subsidies

in the agricultural sector because less than 2% of the workforces in the agricultural sector. But it's unviable to do it in the Indian context where 40% of the labor forces in the agricultural sector. So therefore, we just need to kind of strip these subsidies, which I mean, this is an absolutely insane idea. But I don't want to get too bogged down in this before we actually talk about the protests themselves. So with Nun, why don't I turn it over to you to ask the next question that we have planned? Sure, just so that basically you've sketched out, it was a very desperate and difficult situation for farmers already, lots of suicides, desperation, difficult conditions. and what was proposed as a solution for it, in fact, actually was the deregulation,

the elimination of price supports and other mechanisms of subsidy in order for India to follow the dictates of the WTO. So when they announced these three laws that you and that Sandeep and Santosh you both have described as having these disastrous consequences for farmers. What happened? Who rose up in protest? What did they do? You've talked with so many of these farmers. What were their concerns and complaints?

So how did these protests begin? Who was involved with them? So I will start. So remember, then March 2020, the COVID-19 came, and then we have all India nationwide lockdown happened. It went up to May. And then 5th of June 2020, there was no regular parliament session was ongoing and there was no consensus in the parliament.

There has been some process to follow to introduce the bill. But violating all the parliamentary process in the disguise of the COVID norms and all these things, they have introduced the bills on, I think, the 5th of June of 2020. And they have violated all the process. No voting happened, no proper facilitation happened. And then they have just rushed it out in a very short manner. And you can imagine this is happening under the lockdown and the acute catastrophic epidemic and all these things happening around the world.

And they have pushed these things in this. And there are lots of restrictions to. the moving out, the peoples cannot gather, and I think they have sensed it because this is a very good moment to take it the advantage of the COVID and lockdown and the restrictions. So the peoples cannot come together, they cannot protest because there are lots of restrictions happen. There are lots of COVID protocols and there are fine to assemble and all this thing. But so this all has started through in the Punjab and all credit for the farmers movement

should go to the Punjab farmers unions because they have been an organized union and once they got the bill they went to the professors the professor's professor economist intellectual and then they have studied it and they decipher it and then in the COVID itself they started protesting in the their roof top in the house itself and they started take a hoarding or maybe the billboard and without gathering at one place because they don't want to clout the COVID norms, they started doing protest on their house itself and some kind of online, offline. And then in the month of June, July, until the time June, July, then they started coming together, they started huge.

And then there was already Punjabay very heroic history of the country. the farmers movement and farmers' organizations, farmers union, what in Punjabi they call the Jathebandi. So from the last 100 years from 1900, 1900, 1928, 1988, 1968, there are lots of historic Punjabi agriculture movement

have been happened and we can discuss in some other time, but if you can see there are tradition and legacy of the revolutionary farmers movement in Punjab. And they have the leftist union. unions, they are working into the farmers as well as the agricultural workers also. So they are the one who have gathered together and primal it in unions who have been working before this bill has been introduced.

And then they started blocking the roads, blocking the railway line. And for the whole two months in the month of September, October, there are lots of vegetation happened. And they have stopped completely to railway network, which is a huge thing. and no railway was permitted to go through the because they have started sitting into the railway tracks and by the time September of October they started getting momentum and then they have called for all India strikes and it was all going very well then they have started sitting on the front of the Toll Plaza which is called I think this is things also in the US because so in highway they collect some kind of tax road tax

So there is some toll tax plaza. So they stopped the toll plaza also on all Punjab and they stopped paying the route tax. And they started gathering there. They started making food, community kitchen and they have started gathering there. And then there is a very infamous or famous billionaire here. You may heard the name, the reliance, the Ambani. And he was also involved in this whole business because majority of the rule has been bented. to benefit him, the two major corporates here, the Ambani and Nadani, they are two the,

I think they are now top 10 billionaires of the world also. So they have started sitting a strike in the front of their office, their malls, and their petrol pumps, they also hold the petrol business. So they have completely blocked their whole business. They are also in the telecommunication business. they have started vandalizing their mobile towers, malls, railway stations. So whatever the business enterprises belong to Adani and Mani, they have started the city strike in front of them and they're completely non-functional for a whole year.

And why did they target this particular billionaire and conglomerate and their businesses? Because they are the one too, very near to, very close to the current prime minister and the current And the current farm bills has been quick to benefit them because earlier the government purchased through their own government mechanism, government stores. But Adani is one of the major business collaborate has started making their own private food procurement enterprises. And they have made a huge, huge. food procurement silos in nearby Punjab. So they have started and they know this all false bill is going to benefit these two big corporates. Right, because one of the one of the bills was allowing individual rather than collective selling of your crops to a kind of

collective, you would sell collectively as a group for a certain price. But, But then this bill was supposedly making it free for individuals to sell directly to these, you know, kind of purchasing houses. Yes. And so this was one of these purchasing companies. Yeah. So when governments are withdrawing from the purchasing mechanism, these private players are coming to purchase the. And government are saying you are free to sell anyone. and then who will be anyone, this private players.

So they are the one, they have identified them and they have completely stopped their business for a whole year. They have to issue their clarification statement, but nothing went on. And then these 10 unions started, then they're 10 farmers union or individual farmers union. They have been in coordination, but there are no joint front. But then they have called for a joint front meeting and then 31 organization of the Punjab have formed SKM, which is called Sanjukk Kisan Morcha, which is called Joint Front of Farmers. And then they given a call to, we should go to Delhi on 26th of November.

And then all these things started. So this is the preclude of the, what happened up to 26th of November when they finally started moving towards Delhi. Right. And who were all of these, you know, who went to Delhi and how many? So, yeah, so that, so there was, there was some difference among the farmers' unions, if we should go Delhi or we should restrict to the Punjab itself. But there are lots of historical legacy to the Punjab's 17th, 18th century. They withdraw lots of their inspiration and representation from the historic movement of the 17th century, 18th century. And whenever there are, so Delhi has, Delhi, which is the capital city of Delhi, India, is the symbol of the power, the symbol of the state.

And there are always the tussle of this Delhi versus the Punjab historically in 17th century also, in 19th century also. So whenever there are any major fight happened, they always started to move towards Delhi to challenge Delhi. So this is called Delhi Chalo. So in Hindi or Punjabi it's work, we march towards Delhi. So this is also a kind of historical inspiration. taking forward and this all 31 organization which is almost everyone from the left to the centre to the liberal to the rich farmers organization in the history of farmers movement in India this is the very first time when all kind of all colour all because mostly usually the left

and right unions doesn't go or together right but this time every single union be it right be it religious, be it leftist, it's very radical, very revolutionary, all come together and they decided that we should march towards Delhi. And then from Punjab to Delhi, there is one intermediate state which is called Haryana. So when, and this is the BJP government, the same, the Maudi government is also in the power of, in Haryana also. So they have blocked the road, they have done water cannon, then there are a lot of police atrocities. But they've, but they were in lax. They were in at least more than 100,000 people, they started moving towards them. And they all are with their tractors, trolleys, with all food, ration, and they have

been prepared for camping for six months. And then this is kind of a long, long march, which is going on and going on. So everyone, every possible organization, be it religious or be it farmers movement, organization or a cultural labour, even lots of middle class, youth, Gurduaras, Lungars, religious, charity and everyone. So it became the very mass movement. It was no longer a, by the time they have started moving to Delhi, it was no longer a farmer's protest. It was a mass protest and every section of the society has been involved.

And one of the major role happened to the cultural, activist or basically the singer, the Punjabi popular singer, the pop singer, the rock singer, they haven't started making the very popular song to march towards Delhi, and they have huge popularity. Most of them are living in the Canada. They have few from Canada to Delhi distributed and their songs has been distributed in millions. So one of the major source of inspiration is the Punjabi singers also.

we should not forget their role. So I want to turn to Sandeep now because we have a lot to cover still and, you know, we've already been going for quite some time. So I'm going to have to ask Sandeep to try to be as brief as possible in this answer because it's a really, really big question. And I know that we could go on this, this question alone for like an hour and a half. So let's try to pair it down a bit. But I'm really curious of if we can talk about.

Sandeep, your professional journalist, what was your experience like covering the protests and can you just talk about the protests themselves in terms of scope, in terms of scale from the beginning in August 2020 when they first started up in Punjab and Haryana and then expanded all the way until the situation reached some sort of quote unquote resolution in December 2021. So, yeah, basically. Well, maybe just get us to when they actually, since we heard from Sanchosh about the March, the beginning of the March.

Yes, exactly. It's like when they arrived, so they faced resistance along the way from the federal, from the state and federal authorities of the government, water cannons, as you mentioned. Of course. But they persisted and they made their way towards. Delhi, what happened when they came to the precincts of the city from there forward? And it looks like we've lost Sandeep. So, Sontosh, please tell us what happened.

So when they have started from 26th of November, and there are some, the way I said, there are some difference of opinion, some of the largest union, one of the largest union, which is called Bharati Kisan Union, Ektah, Ugraha. BKU, so Indian Farmers Union, this is one of the largest farmers union. So they have decided that we will not cross Punjab. We will sit in the Punjab border. But the rest of the farmers unions, they keep moving towards Delhi, passing through the Haryana. And one of the important things is because there are lots of youths there.

They are not actual farmers, but they have in support of their family, their support due to the community. And they have started taking it in the way you understand when the youth came and there are lots of child movement and then lots of songs and this is kind of the festival. And then they keep moving and there is a huge and they are not in the hundreds. They are basically into the thousands and lags. So they have started once they started moving towards Delhi, people have really welcomed them. they have offered food, they have spread the flower on them and the peoples across the villages have welcomed them and they started joining them so whenever the march passing on the neighboring villages youth and farmers started joining them so it is growing and growing and the Punjab

when the it started with the Punjab farmers but then the whole hariana farmers also joined them with their logistics also so then it was also was not decided we will go to Delhi, but eventually it become because the Haryana farmers also joined in between, and then it went to them. So, Sandip, you can also add in how the things had been happened once the march started. Yeah, and since now we have Sandeep back with us, Sandeep, is there anything that you would like to add about that, how things progressed through the middle and end phase of the protests as we get close to. and closer to December 2021, and then as we get towards December 2021, maybe we can start with you

to talk about what happened in December 2021, where I said we had some sort of resolution here, and again, quote unquote, resolution. So anything that you would like to add, talking about this middle and then going towards the end phase of the protests. Yeah, a few things I want to add that since 26th, noom, November 2020, there is a call from the trade union forum, 10 central trade unions called a general strike in India on 26 November 2020. And these all the farm unions collaborated with them.

And they also declared that they will support. support the general strike and they will start a march from Punjab to Delhi on 25th or 24th. And this is very interesting that when all overworld, there is a brutal lockdown in several countries which badly impacted the working class people. In India, in June, June 2020, when there is a huge and very strict lockdown all over India and all over world, celebrated by the corporate and their masters, in India, the farmers started agitating against the farm bill, which, which, which, which is passed by the parliament in lockdown period in India. There is a lockdown, but only parliament opened for passing these three bills and the four labour courts, which is a four labour court is in place of 44 labour laws. in India.

So simultaneously, the corporates attack were aimed to workers and peasantry also. So workers, the working class trade union called the general strike. The peasantry supported them and they started to come Delhi. And in between, these governments, BJP ruled government, main current establishment, obstructed and done everything to stop them. Like, they made trenches in the road. They park very big trucks and trawlers and canters on the road so that they cannot come to the Delhi. But there are lacks of legs, farmers, with their heavy four-cylinder, five-cylinder tractor,

and from their tractor, they get away this kind of obstruction. And one farmers told me later in the protest that these tractors are tanks of farmers. They can defeat any vehicle of. any obstruction created by the government. So, a tractor is a main weapon of farmers. Right. I love that. Yeah.

And 26th. And one thing I would like to add that 26th, January, 2021, there is a huge tractor march in central capital, Indian capital, Delhi. There is five blocks, I estimated, I just, I assume that five blocks, tractor, were on the street of Delhi that day, 26, 2021. And huge gathering so many people who don't have any tractor, they walk on by their foot. And so many people standing roadside, they pouring flowers and they're facilitating snacks. and water and cold drink, you know. And there is a jubilant, that was very jubilant scenario 26 January, 2021.

And that day, there is a government make them back foot and there is no any obstruction in Delhi. police besides some places where police resorted to a lathi charge and tear gas but over all the procession was very peaceful

and very historic this was the historic and this sends a message to all our world later days I got know that in Canada there is also Canada in Britain also farmers protested

with their tractors I got some news which you can verify but it was a historic not only for India it is for someone told me one time that

this is the historic in human history this is a historic moment in human history So this I want to say. So one, about the January, so January 26th, 2021, you're describing the 500,000 tractors and people. I just want as a note for listeners who are not up on their Anglo-Indian terminology, a lack means 100,000.

So when Sandeep said five lax, or when we heard Sancho saying lax upon lax, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people. Right. So this is a term that they use. So you're saying that the streets of Delhi were taken over by 500,000 tractors and all kinds of other people as a jubilant celebration in some ways of the success of the farmer's protest in getting the laws repealed in November, December. Sorry, you're saying this is in January 2021. So this is the culmination of the early part of the March to Delhi. Yes. I see. Okay, yes. So this is when they were still protesting and the government has not said that they will remove these.

So this is just building the environment and the determination of the people to protest the three laws that you talked about. Okay, now I understand. So earlier, when they came to Delhi, they were sitting at the periphery of Delhi. They have not inside the city. But 26th of January, they have entered the city. And they went to the historic red fort also, Samuqvara. But they, so the red fort is the administrative district, right? Yeah, the government in Delhi.

It is kind of the where every... This is a historically administrative symbol of Indian, you know. Right. Yeah. Of the Mughal Empire and then the British. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Pre-British era.

This was the symbol of administration. Right. So you've both been really generous with your time. I know that it's pretty late in India. So I want, we have two questions left that we do really have to get to. So let's try to speed to them. So the first is regarding this quote-unquote resolution that happened to December 2021. Would one of you be willing to?

like speed us to December 2021 and discuss what this quote unquote resolution was. What did the government say in December 2021? So in, so it happened in November 2021 itself, but farmers went to December 2021. So earlier, the whole protest was about to repeal the three laws. And there are lots of negotiations going on with the governments and the farmers unions. And everyone was saying, we, we can modify some of the clause, we can delete some of the subcloths, but there are no way we are going to repeal the farm laws. And this has the government extend for a year. But, and farmers unions are no, they are very much, they are very much concerned.

There is no negotiation, there is no solution without repealing the law. And there was no sign of getting this done. But suddenly at the 19th of November 2021, Prime Minister, came at the radio and announced that today this is the historical day of the Sikh religion or the first Sikh Guru's Guru Nanak Devo birth anniversary was also there and this is that today at the very pious day I am repealing the formulas because I think everyone have a sense that after three, four months there was historic state election was coming and government don't want to be unpopular with them and this was their stand to repeal the formulas

because they are, anyway, they are not going to implement it, even if it will be passed. Right. So, and just maybe some context, the reason why it might have been useful to announce this around the time of the anniversary of a major Sikh festival is because in the Punjab area and many of the farmers are of Sikh background, right? So this is a way, as you're pointing out, because of provincial elections taking place, They wanted to try and resolve the situation quickly so that they were not affected in the upcoming elections, particularly in the Punjab state and other. Yes. Okay. Very interesting. Very interesting.

Sandeep, anything that you want to add on the point of this quote-unquote resolution before we get to our last question? Yeah. One thing I would like to add that we have talked a lot of farmers' leaders. which are very forefront of this moment. And they told that they set an agenda of minimum support price for farmers all over the world, not only for India. Because all over the world, corporate want to assimilate all to all the agreement, agriculture sector and farmers are very in very distressed condition. And if state will not give any support in the terms of a minimum support price, then

farmers of all our world will vanish. So this is the main agenda which is not only set by Indian farmers. for India only, this is the agenda set to all our world. And some news came to us that in some other countries, farmers also demanded that MSP should be given to them. So this is the main, if you want to say that, what was the main impact of this moment? So one thing is to repeal this farm law.

Second thing that MSP should be legal right to the farmers for India. And third is this is the main agenda set by Indian farmers for the whole world. And this is like all the farmers of world unite. we can say this is the agenda on which all the farmers of the world can unite and they can demand and one thing very very apparent that this farmer's moment since last few decades this is the first historic moment which directly target to corporate which directly target to corporate exploitation, they sealed corporate houses, corporate offices, they blocked the road, they closed the toll roads, they blocked the silos, they targeted the corporate greediness,

you know, this was the first moment, this is the first moment in few decades. Like in 70s or 60s, there was a Naxal body movement, which is also an agrarian movement. From them, Nuxle light, you know, Naxil moment. So in 60s, late 60s or in early 70s, there was a huge agrarian moment, which is arm movement. agricultural farmers they took the arm and so after that after 70s this is this was the first major moment which targeted the corporate and as you know and the listeners also know that corporate is that corporate is exhausting all the resources of earth they are destroying the are in ornament. They are looting. They are extracting a lot of profit and they're making

a lot of people pushing in poverty. So the main enemy is the corporate. This moment establish this thing. I think so. So allow me to shift to the last question then and I'll give each of you the opportunity to have your say on it, and then Agnan, also, if you have anything that you want to add, feel free to at this time. The last question is, what is the aftermath of this movement? Because we had very limited media coverage of the farmers' protests in general in the West, in the United States in particular, but in the West in general, there was very little coverage of it. And when there was coverage of it, it was specifically when we were having these massive, massive rallies, but nobody really paid attention, nobody in the media at least,

paid attention to this resolution, more or less, the dropping of these farm bills. And nobody has said a word about what has happened since then. So I would like to have each of your take, again, rather short because I know it's really late in India at this point. So what has the aftermath been? What is the situation as things stand? And what has the impact of this movement, these massive farmer protests? What has that impact been up to today?

Yeah. One thing I'd like to say that after repealing this farm law, the main agenda of farmers' union was MSP also. minimum support price should be legal right and they should be passed from the parliament but government did not heed on this demand and at this point I think that at this point the farmers movement achieved very little from a huge protest use mass mobilization, use actually expenditure, which is beer by farmers and community institution. But farmers, farming community got little, very little. And there are main agenda of MSP is also pending.

So I am looking that there is an undercurrent very distress, very unsatisfaction in the farming community, in the farm unions. They are also very dissatisfied, disoriented. And this is boiling underneath. And at some point they will surely burst because. Because the economic situation is also worsening day by day in India, just like Sri Lanka. Some economists say that the situation of India is very near to like Sri Lanka. And the trajectory of Indian economy is just showing the Sri Lankan path. So there is a very distress.

the cause of this moment was the agrarian crisis, agrarian distress. And after this huge one-year protest, this cause could not be addressed by the government, by the farm unions. And one thing I would like to say that the land reform also could not be. done in India since freedom in 1947. So very little land reform could be, you can say, in Jammu Kashmir, Kerala and West Bengal. So because of lack of land reform, there are a few upper caste very A powerful community owns the majority of land, which Santosh described about it. So I think the distress of a farming community could not be addressed by this huge farmer's movement.

And there are certainly unrest is brewing underneath, boiling, and the farming community cannot tolerate this pathetic approach of Indian government towards the major community like a farming community. And one thing I would like to say that the farm union of Punjab is very strong, very, very strong. Only one union mobilizes like 10,000, 20,000 tractors on a tickery border. One border, one union mobilizes one border, 12 kilometer long trolley and tractor on the highway. Can you understand one union?

Unions have dedicated carder based. unions have a carder based dedicated carder and they mobilizes door to door they mobilizes

village to village town to town and they are very much strong and every union have their own area of influence and they have

a lot of backing and they are working since 1990s when get and liberalization

prioritization started in India. Since then they are working they have the legacy of a freedom fighters

like Gadribaba's who fought against the British occupants so this is the situation that the

legacy the strength of farm union, the distress will certainly will show some thing in coming days. And second thing, which I told you, that this farm union, besides a historic moment, they got very little from the government side. So the situation at the December 2020 is the same where we have started in. June 2020, right? So even before June 2020, there was no formula. So even after repeal of

the formula, we are standing the same way where the agriculture was in the deep crisis, the farmicide was going on, the structural crisis was all going on. So there are not much structural change need to be, we should not expect much structural change in the, due to the repeal of this formula. There is one very catastrophic. tropic things is going on, which is the ecological crisis. The water level of Punjab and other part of the India is growing very low. And as a community, as a farming community, one need to be discussed about how we are going to tackle the ecological crisis in agriculture because of the water level, depleting water

level. The good thing happened about this movement is because the farmers movement, the farmers union, again, get reorganized, the traditional left got re-energized, recharged, the era of the mass movement, the era of the agrarian movement, came back to the history, came back to the world front. And lastly, I think even at the, even the fallacy of the parliamentary elections, the parliamentary bill, the legal, statutory and all this things get exposed. And people learn eventually the movement and the people's movement is the answer to the corporate resistance and the ultimate injustice.

So this is one of the good lesson which we should learn. That's all from you. One thing I would like to just underline that we should also take a note that like the farmer's movement in India. In India itself, in a tribal region of Satisgar, there is. There is a huge protest from the tribals who are demanding to protect their land, their forest, their water. And this is based in Seligar and in Chathisgar-Sukma district. And I went last week there and you can see the videos on the Worker Suntyi website and Facebook page also.

And this is also a sit in protest since the last 12 months. This is also, and Hughes, like thousands of thousands of thousands tribals are sitting there day and night in shift like a farmer's movement. So that was also a historic and this is the this is also the fight to protect their rights of. land rights and waters and forest and and because tribals are also in very distressed condition. So this is the two parallel moments, one which started earlier and ended earlier, and second, which is started later and is also continuing Chachisgar. And that was very huge mobilization of tribal in Selig. Yeah, well, I hope that at some point we will also devote an episode to talking about the Advasi movement, some of these, as you're saying, tribal, indigenous peoples resistance taking place in several provinces, I think, against, you know, corporate exploitation and degradation of the environment. I mean, it seems like one whole area also that we need to be talking about. We didn't get a chance to discuss.

here is more industrial workers, people working in the manufacturing sector. I know there's a lot of new militant movements taking place, labor actions, and so on. And it isn't clear to me if there will be the possibility for a kind of general strike, as you were mentioning, was kind of called for at the outset. And there has been some solidarity from what you described of other groups and supporting the farmer's protest. But I'm very much impressed by your final conclusion. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people, mobilizing, marching, sitting in for months and months encamped outside of Delhi, then moving inside for over a year from, say,

November 2020 to December 2020, 2021, or sorry, November, November 2020. Yes, that's right. So over a year, though. It started in September, November 2020. And then it ended December December 2021. So yes, so we're talking about over a year. I would have loved to ask more about, like, what the experiences were talking with them. How did they manage to stay for so long? What kind of solidarity and mood and atmosphere? You mentioned the songs. You mentioned, you know, people welcoming them and support.

And so we got a little bit of a sense that it had to take an extreme amount of sacrifice and solidarity for them to maintain this resolute protest. But in the end, what has been achieved is fairly limited in. that it's the repeal of these three laws, but a positive agenda of putting in place, the minimum price support, many of these other things that would go much further to establish a new structure, to put in place guarantees and subsidies against this privatization and liberalization and corporatization of that sector. That has not been achieved. And just despite the amazing effort for such a long period of time, that's very significant. It seems like it's maybe there will need to be some thinking, you know, in India and around the world. What can

people do to make those moments more effective for lasting changes? I think that's the key question going forward. But the other thing that I was very impressed by is what you mentioned Sandeep about the fact that the demand is in a way not just from the Indian government, but is to put on the agenda for agricultural workers, peasants globally that they deserve minimum price supports and minimum price guarantees. The globalizing, that could be a very interesting trend or development from the example of the Indian farmers is to try and work together. If they weren't able to put in place now, those structural changes positively and

embed them in law, all they did was get rid of these, you know, get rid of the legislation that tried to do away with those supports. If there is a global kind of action and a global movement that begins to develop, maybe then it will be possible to establish that positive agenda of support and achieve the goals to make it possible for the peasants to have a prosperous and dignified life. So very much for us to think about, and I very much appreciate hearing from you. I don't think our listeners or many people, you know, in Europe and North America, have heard these stories. I want to encourage everyone.

And I hope there is, is there subtitling in your videos that you publish in Workers' Unity? Some of them have, but not mostly. Okay, but some of them do. If you can, you know, highlight those that do, I would encourage. our listeners to go and find your site, workersunity.com, and educate themselves with at least some of the materials that have subtitling for English language listeners and readers to keep up with this. And I hope that we will have a chance at some point to connect with you again about

workers' movements and maybe more about the Tribals or Adevasi struggle as well. I hope you'll be available to come at some point back on to guerrilla history to talk to us about those struggles as well. Sure. And just as a brief mention, Adnan, since you mentioned industrial workers in India, recall listeners that we did have a brief discussion about metal workers in Wazerpur, India, the Wazerpur District of Delhi in our episode with Manny Ness about organizing insurgency. It was one of his case studies in there along with the banana workers in the Philippines and the industrial workers in South Africa. So we did talk a little bit about that, but absolutely I agree that it would be very important for us in the future

to talk more about industrial workers within India. And I also, as my parting note as we wrap up here, is listeners, just consider we've talked for well over an hour now. and I hope that you're able to internalize the scope and scale of these events, this movement, these protests. We're talking about individual protests that have well over 500,000 individuals and farm equipment pieces at them. And I also want you, while you're internalizing how large this movement was and how

sustained it was, you know, it went for about a year and a third, how little you actually saw about it in Western media. take those two things in tandem take the scope of this imagine what it would be like in whatever country you happen to be living in think about what something that would be a comparative scale to the population of your country what that would be like you know what it would be like to have for a year and a third a sustained movement of such a scope of peasants workers landless agriculturalists etc coming together to protest against a very specific set for a very specific set of demands.

Imagine what that would be like and also imagine how disheartening it would be to see that it's completely ignored by the media abroad. That's really the situation that we had here. So that's something that we're trying to draw out, something that I was hoping to draw out. But yes, I think that that was a very important conversation for us to have. And I agree with it, none that I'd like to bring you both back on in the future to talk more about workers' struggles in India. So as we wrap up here, would it be possible for each of you, Sandeep and Santosh,

to tell the listeners how they can find your work so that we can direct them to it? So we have a website called Workersunity.com. We have YouTube channel on the same name. So what we can say, I will send you the link and then you can plug in into your podcast or maybe you can place this link into your podcast URL also. Yes, I will put that into the show notes after we get this edited up so that listeners can just scroll down in the description of the show and we'll have all of those links available for you to click on. Is there anything else that you would like to direct the listeners to or is workersunity.com really the place that you'd like to funnel everybody to? Yeah, that is the main posting website for us.

Great. All right. So again, listeners, our guests were Sandeep Rousey and Santosh Kumar talking about a retrospective look at the farmers' protests in India. And we hope that you enjoyed the conversation. Adnan, can you tell the listeners how they can find you in your other podcast? Sure. They can follow me on Twitter at Adnan A. Hussein, H-U-S-A-I-N. And you can also check out my other podcast, The M-A-J-L-I-S that deals with, you know, Middle East Islamic World Global Affairs.

Check us out. In fact, actually, we did have, we just recorded an episode that might be of interest to our guests with Dr. Pasha Khan from McGill University. He's written a book recently called The Broken Spell, Indian Storytelling and the Romance genre in Persian and Urdu. And so it's about the Dastan tradition and its relevance. So anyway, people might be interested in that. Go ahead and check out the Mudge list, M-A-J-L-I-S. And the disclaimer, when you look up the muddless, don't click on the radio-free Central Asia one.

Click on the good one, the one hosted by our friend and co-host, Professor Adnan Hussein. As for me, listeners, you can find me on Twitter at Huck 1995. I also recently started another media project myself alongside my co-hosts Safi, who has been a guest host on guerrilla history a couple of times. You will remember her from the episodes of Art and the Working Class, as well as the episode with Ruth Vodok on Far Right Discourse. You can find that by looking at my Twitter page, again, at Huck 1995, or by going to your podcast player or on YouTube at What the Huck with a question mark. exclamation point. You can follow guerrilla history on Twitter by

going to at Gorilla underscore pod, G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A underscore pod. And you can help support the show monetarily by going to patreon.com forward slash gorilla history. Again, G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A history helps keep the lights on and allows us to continue doing the show. All of your support is

greatly appreciated and you get some bonus content there. So listeners, until next time, solidarity. You know what I'm going to be.