Guerrilla History - Struggle Against Africa's Last Absolute Monarchy w/ Bafanabakhe Sacolo of the Communist Party of Swaziland (AR&D Ep. 8)

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

With this episode of Guerrilla History, we bring you another fascinating case study in our series African Revolutions and Decolonization.  This time, a contemporary struggle - the struggle against Africa's last absolute monarchy - Swaziland.  We are fortunate to be joined by guest host Ruehl Muller, senior lecturer/associate professor at the Institute of Creativity and Innovation at Xiamen University in China, who has been in contact with the CPS for quite some time.  We are also joined by guest Bafanabakhe Sacolo of the Communist Party of Swaziland.  A brilliant discussion, and one which you will certainly want to listen to, as our next episode in the AR&D series is on cultural revolution in Swaziland!   Also subscribe to our Substack (free!) to keep up to date with what we are doing.  With so many episodes coming in this series (and beyond), you won't want to miss anything, so get the updates straight to your inbox.  guerrillahistory.substack.com   Bafanabakhe Sacolo is National Organizing Secretary of the Communist Party of Swaziland.  You can keep up to date with the CPS by following them on Facebook, on Twitter, or by checking out their website.   Ruehl Muller is senior lecturer/associate professor at the Institute of Creativity and Innovation at Xiamen University in China, and the editor of the fantastic Building a People’s Art: Selected Works of Trường Chinh and Tố Hữu (buy a physical copy or download the free PDF from Iskra Books). Help support the show by signing up to our patreon, where you also will get bonus content: https://www.patreon.com/guerrillahistory 

You don't remember Den Bamboo? No! The same thing happened in Algeria, in Africa. They didn't have anything but a rank. The French had all these highly mechanized instruments of warfare. But they put some guerrilla action on. Hello and welcome to Dorian. Gorilla History, the podcast that acts as a reconnaissance report of global proletarian history

and aims to use the lessons of history to analyze the present. I'm one of your co-hosts, Henry Huckmacky, unfortunately not joined at this moment by my usual co-host, Professor Adnan Hussein, who of course is a historian and director of the School of Religion at Queen's University in Ontario, Canada, although we're hoping he will be able to join us before the end of the conversation today. With that being said, we have an excellent conversation lined up for us today. It's a continuation of our African Revolutions and Decolonization series. Listeners, if you haven't been tuning into past episodes of African Revolutions and Decolonization,

these episodes are coming out every other week, interspersed with non-series episodes on the guerrilla history feed, and are spaced out between case studies of African Revolutionary and decolonial struggle. through history, and supplemental episodes, which can be a little bit more thematic, they can be a little bit more conceptual or theoretical. So we have a lot of material out. But today we're going to be taking a look at a contemporary revolutionary struggle in Africa, which is a little bit more unique than the previous episodes that we've done. Before I introduce our guests, though, I would like to remind you listeners that you can help support the show and allow us to continue making episodes like this by going to patreon.com forward slash guerrilla history. That's G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A

history. And you can keep up to date with everything that Adnan and I are doing individually, as well as collectively, by following us on social media. We're on Twitter at Gorilla underscore Pod. We're on Instagram, Gorilla underscore History. And we also have a free newsletter, which periodically will give you updates about things that we're doing directly to your email inbox, which you can find by going to go. guerrilla history.substack.com. And just remember, gorilla is spelled with two R's. Otherwise, you will not end up on our page.

So with that out of the way, we have a terrific guest and a guest host today for this conversation. We are going to be talking about the struggle in Swaziland against the monarchy with a focus on the Communist Party of Swaziland. We're joined today by National Organizing Secretary of the Communist Party of Swaziland, Comrade Bafanabake Sokolo. Hello, Comrade. It's nice to have you on the show today. How are you doing? Greetings, greetings, greetings. Thank you so much for having me in this platform. And thanks for allowing the circuits of the people of Southern to be shared on this platform, I think, which can be received by also the world. But I'm doing well, and thanks for everyone. Absolutely. I think it's very important that we shine a light on contemporary

struggles and not just focus on the historical struggles despite the fact that we are a history program. And this, as we'll find out today, is very much a contemporary struggle against the last absolute monarchy in Africa. I mentioned we also have a guest host today, whom I will have introduced himself. We have Ruhl Mueller joining us today. Hello, Rul. How are you doing today? And can you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself? Well, I'm definitely the he's an interesting person on this podcast at the moment, but it's still nonetheless good to be here. I am from South Africa,

but I am currently based in Chyman at the ICI Institute at Sharmine University. Yeah, and also you may recognize Rules Name as being the editor of Iskra Books' Building a People's Art, which I know I have mentioned on the show previously, and you may also recognize Rural surname as a member of his family was on the show. Relatively recently, you can go through our back catalog and hunt for that surname, and then you'll know exactly what episode that was. But with that aside, I want to get into the conversation today, and we have a lot to cover with the Communist Party of Swazilin,

Comrade Bufonabake, and we also are going to be having a supplemental episode with Conrad Bofanabake as the next episode of our series African Revolutions and Decolonization, and that'll be focused on efforts at cultural revolution within Swazilin. But today we have to start out historically. I know that guerrilla history's listeners are very informed and certainly are much more informed about Swaziland than what the conditions are like in Swaziland than the general populace.

But I still feel that many of the listeners either only know that Swaziland is a place, or perhaps they know that Swaziland has an absolute monarchy, but no little more than that. So, Comrade Bufanabake, I'm going to turn to you now. Can you talk a little bit about the history of the monarchy in Swaziland and what the conditions have been like in Swaziland? I think that we need to go over that history a little bit.

Thank you so much, Comrade. But I think, as you've mentioned, there is an absolute monarchy in our country, which is Swazzoan. And if one can go through the search engines and search for the country's president, you may find out that there is a dick that you find about the people of Swazzozand themselves. As if they are passive objects to the history of Swazardand, much is being set by the monarch itself. Like the history of our people doesn't exist. But we know that the history of the people of Southern exist, but also the repression that exists in our country, which is a practical condition from the absolute monarchy, starts around the 18th century where there was few that was around what is known as South Africa today, where there is the Zulus, I think the famous of the Moldwas, King Shagazuulu, and also the Ndwanda. there were those Bandu tribes and the bushmans and the sons and koi koi that were there at that moment in time that were in wars, a few that wars as I've said, that were fighting each other.

But I think the Jammini tribe or the Jammini dynasty being established in Swazant was a condition of them running away from those wars where they circled around Swazirond, firstly around the place called Pongola. in South Africa today, but they came into Swazan through fighting wars against many tribes that were there around South Africa. But when they secrete in Swazant, it doesn't mean that when they came into what is known as Swazan today, it was an empty country with no one who was staying there. But there were tribes that were found there. In fact, in society, they are called a Macan Zambid or in English, those who were there before, they were to. types that which were the Sotos, the Tongas and Dengunis, who lived in that area and also use that dent for production, for farming, and many other things that they need for their daily

requirements. But when the Jamaic dynasty came into our country to save today, which was Anguane, when it came, that is why the country is sometimes called Gangwani, because of the sector who came, the leader of that Jamini clan by then, who came into our country, which was Guani, who conquered most of those tribes that were there, because he wanted to have land and also have protection from the oars that he was also running away from. So through his cycling there as a monarch, he made himself a paramount chief or a king to all those tribes that were there, such that, there to pay loyalty and show that there were subjects to him by paying loyalty through many

cultures that were practiced by then and some of them are even practiced today. I think probably most people have seen that there are cultures like in China where young women bring red dance in the presence of the king, the cultures like Inguala, which are practiced even today, which are the same cultures that those people were forced to practice at that moment in time. But the truth of that it was not their culture, but it was cultures that were approached by operation from the Jaminid dynasty, which established itself and to what is known today as Swazant. There are many kings that were there that came in through the Damii dynasty, but it existed that time. And if you can note that the culture of the people, how the people, their way

of living of daily places changed because of the... establishment of the dynasty, which came with the oppression and also there to pledge loyalty and to show that they were subjects to the ruling edits of that moment in time. So also their cultures and their normal life had to change because their production also because all they had to do was to pledge loyalty and to show that they were friends with the king. And if someone would go against whatever culture that was put in place at that moment, the time, that had to show loyalty to the king. One would go into a harsh punishment, some sects, some other tribes had to flee from Swazin into other places of Africa,

countries like the Soto, where we have most Soto people there, and country into places like Mozambique. But this is how the monarchy was established in our country, which was in the 17th, in the 18th century. But then there were developments because the monarchy continued to grow inside the country. And also times continued to change. There was colonialism that was happening at that moment in time in Africa, which also reached Swazden. But in terms that they call it, they called the protectorates. But we know that Swazden was annexed by the Boers First, the Boas, at around the 1890s and also at around 1912,

we saw Swazden changing into a British protectorate. But at that moment in time, the Germany tennis was still in power in Swazden, as I've said, that it took Swazden by Congress at the age during century. But at that moment in time, when the colonizers came into Swazden because of the Arab land that was there, especially the low fed, which was also rich in inner arts, as you have known that probably one of the best calls

or Africa, especially in the southern part of Africa is one of the best calls in the world which they call Androsite. In the low field of Swazden is a place where there are minerals, especially coal which is mined and also arable land, good for farming and good for grazing and also good for sugar cane, especially in the low field and also good for timber in the high field.

So the white settlers were attracted by that place in Swazan. So they came in into the king of Swazan by the time, which was also a known as King, Pounou, who gave a lot of land to the white secular such that most of the land, three quarters of the land of Swazardland, was turned into white farms, only, I think, a quarter of Swazard, belonging to the people of Swazard. If there are sectors coming in, if so as an extening is being turned into farms, obviously there are people who are being evicted on daily basis to establish those farms, such that people were evicted into those desperate types and also into maintenance spaces,

which were not good for other agricultural purposes, such as grazing and saithers' food and all those agricultural plantations that the white circuses came with into our country. but they needed the monarchy to use the monarchy itself as a tool of manipulating the people of southern to shift them from the land that they needed into putting them into the mountains and all those dens that the people of susan are found even today because of those evictions that took place at that moment in time so they needed the king or the jamini dynasty which played a very good collaborative role during those incentives that they were using at that moment in time to buy land, which included whiskeys and other things

which decorated the monarchies something that was of out value and of power in our society, such that they ended up taking that large amount of land in our country. So the history of the monarchy also includes the history of the colonizers of our country or of Africa

because it is part of the people or capitalism played a huge role in sustaining the monarchy itself and making the people to believe that the monarchy itself was a leadership bigger in our country. So the developments of the apartheid regime in South Africa, I think, also forced South Africa and some companies from South Africa to move into Swazden because there were sanctions, that's where they imposed to those companies,

companies like Coca-Cola, such that even today, it is sacred in Switzerland. We saw many companies coming into Switzerland, which were from South Africa or which were established from South Africa for cheap labor and also for purposes of continuing those trading deals because South Africa was facing those sanctions and also that pressure from the international community because of the apartheid that was being practiced. in South Africa. So there were many sectors that came into our country, which is

Swazan, and capitalism grew in that time, and there was the industrialization of Swazzozden, but all those things came through the monarchy because they give incentives to the monarchy so that they will access them and also get access to the

people of Swazzoz, and there's also cheap and sometimes free labor. So that is what also came into sustaining the regime in our country, the jamming business in Switzerland. It was also the developments that were happening in Africa, South Africa as a whole, and also the developments that were happening in the entire world where we saw capitalism growing and imperialism getting deeper and deeper into Africa. And also the development of

mines that were there, that today in Swazan, such that was coal, iron ore, diamond, and asbestos, which were one of the developments that were brought by the settlers in the in collaboration with the monarchy. These, all those things, all those developments, it's all those things that gave that the monarchy, that manied also that world that it used to repress the people of Swazen. But there was a time with the change. of times and also the changes that were happening, the strategies that were happening in Africa, against the colonialism that was happening in Africa and anywhere else in the world, where by Swazan also was forced that there might be changes that might be then,

which turned into a form of neocolonialism, what we call new coronialism today. So the shift that happened in the country, I think it was around 1968, where Swazard was said to be given an independence. But that independence, it was a shame in independence because the people of Swazant were not allowed even if they're as like they are not even allowed even today to make a decision on the politics, on the economics and also on the social life of their account. But it was the negotiations that were made between King's Opuzza,

it was King's of Uzza by then, and also the English protectorate, was Britain by the time, to give Swazzozant a independent. While we wait for him to reconnect, one thing as well is that the colonization of Swaziland was a little bit different to that that was happening in the rest of Africa in the sense. So people often ascribe it to a much more lighter form of colonization, if you could even call something like that. But compared to the, what you saw happening with, especially in terms of race, like with the neighbors, the Portuguese in Mozambique, the Redisians, the Belgian Congo, which is probably the most horrific thing in history. The Swaziland under the British was

very much treated as a case of almost benevolent neglect, where in the rest of Africa, you had this phenomenon of the white man, you know, trying to civilize the native. This almost had an opposite strategy in Swaziland where the more traditional aspects, especially what we would consider the more backwards aspects, were actually encouraged by the British, which is why the king and the monarchy were actually given so much power in Swaziland while still being under the British. They didn't really come in and say, listen, we the king now.

They allowed for this and they encouraged it because the way that they saw it was that by encouraging these backwards practices. And even, obviously we'll talk more about this on the next episode when we can talk about culture, but even bringing back practices and rituals that had actually died off, like the reed dance that was mentioned. Dole, that had actually died off in Swaziland, but was rejuvenated under Saboos or under the British. Because by encouraging these backwards practices, it allowed Swaziland to remain almost uneducated for the most part. And then to serve as a labor force for the gold mines

in the Rand, which is where they're real ambition. Swaziland would basically just operate as a human labor force that could then be moved across into the Janusburg. Yeah, that's really important context again, specifically talking about that cultural component. It's something that we're going to pick up again in the next conversation,

specifically how that focus on traditional culture and I'm putting air quotes around traditional culture because the focus is, as you said, on the most retrograde and unprogressive, parts of culture. And as you mentioned, that was intentional, as an intentional form of holding this group of people down and backwards in many ways. But I don't want to get too much into that because that is going to be the focus of the entire next conversation. Now, Comrade Bafanabake, as listeners may have noticed, dropped out due to connection issues.

Comrade, are you back in now? Yes, I'm back in and approaches for that. That's all right. So we were just leaving off. You dropped out and Rule wanted to fill in specifically about the component of culture and what the British had imposed on Swaziland during that colonial period. So feel free to continue with your discussion or if you want to mention anything about that briefly, but keeping in mind, of course, that we are going to have a far more extensive conversation on that.

aspect of things, specifically in the very next episode of this series. Thank you so much. I think I was going to cover what Comrade Rua was saying, especially when I was speaking about the 1968 shame independence, because what the preaches did there was to legitimize the monarchy and show to the people and to the whole world that the real figure or the leading figure or political figure that was leading the people of Svazan. was indeed the monarchy so that they may continue whatever

negotiations and set up that they have made. And as I've said earlier before, and that the setup that is there in Swazan, it is also the apartheid setup that existed in South Africa that ended up shifting into Swazden because of

all those political and also economical sanctions that South Africa was facing at that moment in time. But then, in the 1960 there is a Shem Independence, where Sop was, before then, he was called a paramount chief, but then after the Shem independence, he is giving power as the king of Swazzozden. But then the people of Surzance did not sit down and just for their arms and did not challenge that.

In fact, even before, when the Gwarnet dynasty started, came into, second into Swazin, it faced some resistance from the people of Swazin. They fought against that because it was falling to them that that dynasty which came into the government claim itself as the leader of the people of that time. They could not accept that because they knew how they would survive and they knew that the consequences that had to come with the existence of that dynasty in Swazen. But then even after that independence, that shame independence, there was resistance such that at that moment in time, at that phase in time from 1968 until 1973, there was a moment where political parties were allowed to exist in the country, but because of the consciousness

of the people and the knowledge and also the education that they had, it was still minimal at that time because they couldn't participate politically in any decision-making as of outlying the history of the deniers itself and the repression that it brought into the people of Swazden. By then, there were a few political parties that existed. But then what came into the into our kind of by then? Kamrat, if I may ask a follow-up question very briefly, and I apologize for the interruption here, but this is something that I was trying to find more information on myself and had not been particularly successful. You mentioned that the political parties were allowed at that period of

time, but the nature of the political parties that were in existence of that time is a little bit more hard to discern. Was there any ideologically cohesive parties that had any sort of traction amongst the people at that time? So you mentioned that there was not much consciousness of the political parties. So in terms of what kind of traction there was, I understand it's going to be limited as a result of the conditions that were in existence at that time. But what were the political formations that were legalized at that time like? There were political formations that were there at moment in time, which include one of the oldest parties was one in National Liberatory Congress.

And also, the monarch itself has its own party, which was called Imboldt. But one reason one will find it had to find a history of those existence of those parties. One would be that the existence of the monarchy has erased the history of the people of Southern, but also has elevated the history of the monarch as if the history of the people of the Southern can only be defined by

the history of the monarch. But another thing that unfolded at that moment in time, because there were elections that were held after 1968, where the king, in fact they had reached the election in a

form of that, they would allow people to vote they would put drums where people go and vote but if you wanted to vote for the other parties they will want to decide the logo and everything of each and every political party so they will

use the meaning things to portray the other political parties and also allow the imboat for itself to be one as something that in fact whatever denoted the imboat for itself which was that

inboot of which was the party which was of the monarchy at that moment in time as something that was of a good figure and of a good value. And secondly, the monarchy at that moment in time also had money and resources to mobilize in communities wherever it had because there were those cultures that the hanglass or British colonialism was helping the monarchy to sustain. So through that cultures, they had more access to the people of Southern than the other political parties that were there, such that there were people even at that moment in time,

because even the parties themselves, there were some opposition parties that were created by people who were within the monarchy itself, such that some of them even went into exile because of all those repression that existed in the 1973 decree, that where we saw King's Opuzer announcing that the army and the police will take full control of the country in the strategic areas and no political party, in fact, every political party is banned inside the country and such that even people when we were seen in groups of three or four, the army and the police will intervene by either adapting or dispassing or even torturing people who were found in the street or anywhere in the corners in different

engagement. So that is why also those political parties are not well-debted. noted in history because of those drachies that they were facing, that repression that they were facing at that moment in time. And also the 1973 decree that came into play where we see even the army being established. It was on 12th April, 1973. I think it was a commotion of that day, a few days back where the country itself was reflecting on the 1973 decree, which its remnants are still even existing today. But also to, in fact, that was to outline the issue of the political parties that were there in the country and why their strike is very hard or their works at that moment in time

in the strike of the people of Swazir, and it's very hard to find in history. And also, the authors of the history of Swazden are the same people that are oppressing the people of Swazden. So that is why there is big information that you will find because of the freedom that the people of Swazzozans don't have even lecturers and authors in Swazzov cannot write about the history of Swazzozans such that in schools, that history of the political parties was removed from the curriculum, especially at high school,

where I had to study that history. So there is that portion about the history of Swazzoz and about the political parties that was intentionally, it was there, but it was intentionally removed from the Caribbean. so that it can be erased from the minds and anyway to be found in the history of the people of Southern and also in the strategy against the monarchy in Southern. I think I've tried to answer your question. Rule, is there anything that you wanted to add, or should I take us into the history of struggle against the monarchy? I think if we're going to start talking

about the struggle, especially in the more contemporary context. The two things that I would just be interested in hearing about is obviously the 2021 riots, but also, and I think this might be interesting for a lot of people, is a bit of information about the kundlesi, which I don't think many actually know about. But it's a very much. a suzzi thing, a system of governance that I don't think exists anywhere else really. But it's often, well, it is only really used as a tool for the monarchy. And I think those two are interrelated quite significantly, is the functioning of the Tecundler system and then the riots that happened a few years ago.

Yeah, thank you so much for that question. I think after the 1973 decree there was the development of something which I think the comrade had just said of it was at the moment of something new which is a political system

that cannot be defined in a world it is called a system but it cannot there is no system like that that can exist in the world where the monarch who wants to define itself as part or as a legitimate leader of

the society of Swazen, but without the involvement of the people themselves. But I think to counter that and to make sure that they portray themselves as something that exists, they establish a system called

Tunguja system and also what they call, what's they called. A Tinkonga system is where there are those tri-pal communities that exist in Swazza. I think around 55 right now, but it is defined by the monarchy, it is not something that was defined by the people of Shazim, where there should be one person who is elected from those areas.

And first of, for him to call her to qualify, to be voted into parliament, he or she should be endorsed by the chiefs, who are the monitors or the prefects of the, monarch itself, because for it to extend to the communities to whatever place that they want to extend their rule, they have to have people who are there, they are called the eyes of the king or the chiefs, their chiefdoms that exist all across the country, which are the extension of the monarchy, which are the low keepers of the traditional system of the monarch itself or of the backward system, which first they have to endorse you or has to be the one that

approve that you may attend or you may be voted for to attend the parliament so there is that system that does not exist where in around 55 areas of the country there are people individuals not from any organization anyone who feels like he has money to campaign and bribe the people through those shame elections also that takes people into parliament which is another useless institution in our country, which is a rapper stamp of the monarchy. Because the 1973 decree came with an absolute power to the monarchy where he has power over the legislature, the executive, and the judiciary of the country. And also, whatever that is there in the parliament, whatever law that can be discussed

even for years or even for a day, it cannot be approved without the approval of the king himself. So it acts as a rapper stamp. So there has been that elections from 1968 where one who is elected from a community who will go and attend parliament just to make himself much better than the community says is representing because there is a token of appreciation one gets to be in that warm seat claiming to be representing the interests of the people of Southern rather than at the same time they are escaping the problem. poverty that is there in the rural areas because the people of Swazan are defined much by poverty. That is why the regime is not afraid to call them at any moment in time from the rural areas and use trucks to collect them all around, to parake them to the whole world and call even international guests to see how the king portrays his people or his subjects. I call it in quotes using the people of Swazden to get that international recognition,

the legitimate and also a powerful king. So that's how the Dingwunga system works. There are over 55 constituents where even amongst the members of parliament, the king has a portion of people around 10 that he elects himself, that he appoints himself to be part of that parliament. And also in the upper house, the house of the Senate, he has full control of it also because he selects people who are there. He also select who is the prime minister of,

that country, preferably if you can take the East of Sussex and all the Prime Ministers that have been there in the country, they have been a Jaminu. Why is it? It should be because mostly have been maids. We don't have a woman prime minister

that has been there in our country. But they are all Jaminis, which means they come from the same type, from the same dynasty or from the same family, the monarchy, which is there in our country. So that is what exists in our country. The elections of Swazden have been boycoted for years

and also the people of Swazden that's not been silent about the repression that has been happening inside our country. It is not only in the phase of 1968 to 1973 or before that when there was the establishment of the monarchy. But there have been many strategies that are recorded in the history of Swazden where we see the history of the trade union taking part because the consciousness of the people started to rise

also with the influence of the geopolitics that are playing in the world and also with the influence of what was happening in South Africa, the raising of the consciousness of the people of South Africa, the existence of the Communist Party, the South African Communist Party, and also the NC in South Africa played a huge role in also in the strategies of the people of Suazan. There were some people who were exited in South Africa had to move into Swazen, some attended school in Suazen

because of the political and landscape that was the end. South Africa, giving those political education and also raising the consciousness of the people of Southern, sharing their strategies, the strategies that were faced by the people of South Africa when shared with someone in Southern, they will get motivated, such that we saw some political movements and political organization being formed in the country. And also we saw the the Swazan Federation of Trade Unions at that moment in time of 1991, where we saw strategies, big matches that were there, demonstrations that were there within Swazan,

and also other political movements that were there inside the country, Swazin, which also trade unionism was not something that was there in our country. And the developments also of capitalism brought trade unionism, but also the growth in the consciousness of the people of Surveillance, And also the deepening of the repression that is currently happening in our country that has been happening in our country also increase the consciousness of the people, which needed practical solution to the practical problems that were there in our country. And also I think what the point I have noted was their 2021 and rest, which was led by mostly by the students movement itself under the Penal of SNAS, which is the Swazzoan National Union of Students, whereby, in fact, as I've introduced myself, I think I was, I once shared that I was the Secretary General of the Swazen Union of Student, which was NASS by then, where there was a student, a low student, at Chilguer Lusel. which is the Uniswa University.

It is called Uniswra by now, but it was Unisra by then, where a law student was brutally killed by police, and the police, in fact, claimed not to know him while his car was found around the police custody with some tents and also with suggested a bullet on his car. But that incident that happened, it draws the students to go into the streets where thousands of the students go into the streets

under the Benavs Nurse where they were demanding the justice of that student which was Tabania and Gomoyik. But by then, the angerness and the tartness of the people of Surgeons, especially the youth with the system, we saw that much against the police violence and also the killing of the students, and motivating communities, young people all over communities in the country,

such that they went into the street, boycotting not against taban now, but also the repression that was happening inside our country, which included unemployment, and also they were calling an end to the absolute monarch that was existing in our country, such that the slogan that was one of the slogans that were famous at that moment in time was that Mswati must fall, and also we had the last generation to be oppressed by Mswati's regime. They were primarily targeting those companies that were rarely owned, such as those shops, logistics companies,

and also the chiefdoms that were existing in those communities which were banned, and also the Dingunga structures that were there, because there's an elaborated area about the Dingunga Institution, where in communities one person is elected to be a member of parliament and maybe a few too that serve in those offices that were there in communities that are in extension of the thinking system per se. But we saw young people even pending those structures, which was a clear sign that they were tired of the absolute monarch and also the monarchy, the existence of it in our country.

and they could see that it was in cause of their suffering and also the poverty, lack of education and all those social ills that the young people of Swazabeth and their whole population of Swazzozand are existing in. So the 2021 Andres was one of those turning points in Swazden where we saw there are young people and many people rising into the streets, such that the army was unleashed, killing over hundreds,

of young people in the streets and also shooting many which were taken into hospitals. Most were amputated. Some of them are living with wounds. And some of them are in prison, as we speak, a member of the Communist Party, Bongongamouli, who is currently in prison right now. And also many of them, such as myself and others, were forced into exile because of that political development. and it also becomes our people as the Communist Party to say that indeed the consciousness of the people of Swazin

have risen to a point that they can see that the monarchy is the root cause of their suffering such that and also it is only through a fight against the monarchy the dismantling of the monarch and establishment of a new system that will emancipate the people into the decision-making of the country, whether politically, economically or socially. So it becomes a springboard for us at the Communist Party of Sweden to say, indeed the people of Swazzozant are ready to fight against the system,

as what we saw as what we saw on the 2021 andres, where we saw people fighting against the police, against the army, with whatever tool they have a stone, a chauvin, whatever, they would get in the streets or wherever in the communities where they were fighting against the monarchy. They will use anything that they will find around them to fight against the monarch. So this is what unfolded with the 2021 unrest up until today. But the monarchy also has upscaled its repression by deploying the army in roadblocks. I think after the 2021, the 1973 decree came into play again.

where there were police and the army all over the country up until today, and even bringing foreign mercenaries which were going around inside the country, assassinating political figures and anyone who can be involved in any political movement or any political edge that questions the existence of the monarchy, which has also led to the movement of other people from the country into exile because of the existence of foreign bodies that are there inside the country. And also we've also seen a military upgrade within the country with the pickup of Taiwan itself because there is an existence of Taiwan, which is colonizing our country,

donating helicopters, ammunition, brands and equipment for the regime. In fact, it totally controls the whole thing with your system because the lack of education, of the monarchy, the bequateness of the monarchy, it doesn't give them the necessary skill and knowledge of how to run a state or how to continue with oppression and regression. And also the desperation of Taiwan to exist after, I think the Comintang escaped, run from the mainland China

and went into Taiwan and to call Taiwan a country which is a province of China. I think the desperation of Taiwan being not recognized by most countries in the world I think Swazin as the last absolute monarchy, I think is the last can also that supports Taiwan as a

country or that recognized Taiwan as a country and there's diplomatic relations. And that relations that was established in 1968 when when Swazzo's then

independent. So I think it was a shift of power. The preaches moving back and giving Taiwan a leading figure in the affairs of Swazan, such that the politics of the country, political advises that the regime uses are from Taiwan, military, military Taiwan is there to assist the country and also economically, such that after them unrest, a lot of billions have been donated to Swazan, to keep the ruling government or the monarchy. in shape or the dinkulja system in shape and also noting that most of the funds that Taiwan is using

to sustain itself and also to sustain its influence are from imperialism and also we've seen a huge budget from the USA going into Taiwan which also symbolizes the presence of USA in our country as British has been there and other imperial masters that are delayed in our country and also we have learned that Israel is about to establish its embassy in Swazan. So you can see that the upscale or the upgrade that has happened after the 2021 and the repression that has happened in Swazan. And also the imperial masters in getting more force coming into our country. Because I think Swazan also serves as a proxy at this moment in time because there is no much interest with the strikers of Swazin. because MAP is a small country with a small population of around 1.4 billion people

and also with low minerals, there are few incidents that you can find the history of sources, including the mining of gold. Yes, there was, but I think there's a leak of it. So it is not of interest to imperial masters, but I think right now what it serves as is a proxy to target other countries that are day in Africa, which includes South Africa, Mozambique, and the southern region, and also Africa, and also the fights that is ongoing between the USA, I think,

and also the trade war between the USA and China, I think, Surzant serves as a breeding space for imperialism itself to continue to run its affairs around Africa as a continent and also the world as a continent, because they have that mona, which is their puppet, and they've decorated it and made it legitimate, and if you can see after the 2021 and this, if you can look at the statistics of what the UN said

about the situation in Southern, you can find that there is nothing that much that the UN did as an intervention to that. If you can look at what Sarduk did to the situation in Svazan, yes, there was a Troika that commission that was sending to Svazan to speak of the issue. But I think last year,

Swazden was lifted out of the countries with problems around SADC itself, then the biggest question to the people of Swazand or to us as the Communist Party of Swazden, we know that there are problems that were there that were existing in Swazden even before the 2021 and this. And we know that even after the 2021 and there are problems that are there that exist in the country.

But how can Sada come into saying that Svahd has no problems that exist in the country itself? How can the international bodies that are there in the country suggest that Swazden being ruled by an absolute monarchy doesn't have problems that exist within the country that has to be solved. But I think that is why the Communist Party of Swazen is of existence, is to bring the practical solutions to the practical problems that exist in our country. But I think I've tried to answer those questions that were brought by the Comrade.

Yeah, so turning towards the changing, shape of the struggle against the monarchy. So we've mentioned that Swaziland is the only absolute monarchy in Africa and also is the only country in Africa that doesn't follow the one China policy. But we do have to also look at the fact that the way in which struggle against the monarchy has taken form has changed over the decades. And particularly since 2011 when the Communist Party of Swaziland was was founded and we have really that ideological edge in the struggle against the monarchy taking place in Swaziland. So can you talk a little bit about what the conditions imposed by the monarchy were

in the country and how that influenced the way that resistance to the monarchy took shape up until the point where we get to 2011 and the Communist Party of Swaziland is founded and at that point, the changing way that resistance to the monarchy has been carried out. As I think from the repression that is currently there in our country and the consciousness, the raising of the consciousness of the people of Southern and also the structures that they have been fighting against the monarchy and also the resilience that we have been seeing from the people of Southern, As I've stated, the existence of the monarchy, I think, since the 18th century up until today, but the striking of Swazzozstan or of the liberation and the emancipation of the people of Swazzoan still continues today.

I think it also shows that resilience and resistance of the people against the monarchical rule. But what brings to the formation of the Communist Party, I think it also has to do with the development of the consciousness, of the people such that there was a moment in time because I think with the monarchy put in place in 1968 as in the shame independence. I think to the whole world or to anyone there could be that sort of hope that maybe the monarchy because of the change of name maybe from being a British protectorate to what is called Switzerland today. I think there was hope that the political, economical, and social ills that were there

or situation that were there, the poverty that exists in our country, the unemployment, the lack of education, the horrible working conditions for the people of Southern, probably to one, there might be a thought that probably something will change. But I think the change of time

or the amount of time that the regime has been there, even after that after Southern has been changed from being a protectorate to what it's called the kingdom of Southern today, probably people will talk of an advance into the life

of the people of Southern. But what we saw was a deep repression which continued, such that some conditions have even worsened the underway before. So with the parliament being used as a tool of the people, probably as the people's voice,

I think that was another example that the people of Southern learned from that. Even the parliament itself, it's used in the hands of the monarchy because it doesn't serve the interests of the working class or the interests of the people of Swarden. It was a lesson learned by the people of Swarden. But I think they went to a form to realize that indeed the monarchy was the problem that was there in the country. Because there political organizations that were there in Switzerland even during the 1968, that said the monarchy should be there in the country, but it should be of existence, but it should be

away of the politics, but we as communes, we cannot define that having the monarchy in the system, but we can't even define what role does it play in the production or in the life of the people of southern, in the political life, social life, economic life of the people of southern. With my own understanding, I think that that development of the people of the people of the consciousness of the people of Southern, reaching to a point that even the communist part of the Southern was formed by people

in exile. Understanding the situation that for the strategy of the people of the President to see the light of the day was to answer the question of the monarch itself because with it having absolute power, even if

the Communist Party, because there is a parliamentary route that other political movements or political parties were speaking of saying that let us occupy the parliament and have more people in the parliament who can speak about the issues that are they changed,

the policies that are there in Switzerland. But they have learned that it is of a useless approach because even if you go into parliament, there were committee members of parliament that were there even before the 2021 unrest, that two of them are currently in prison

saving sentences of about 65 years and 85 years each of them. And one of them was lucky enough to escape into exile. Even if you can go into parliament, there is no freedom of expression that one can challenge the monarchy. No one can challenge the monarchy, whether in parliament or anywhere, in any space that you can get. Even internationally, if you can challenge the monarchy, then when coming back into the country, there are those consequences that one can face. So I think the Communist Party of Southern his formation in 2011 was in response to that, which was a formation of a new nucleus or of a new leadership in society

that said a practical way of solving the issues that are there in the country, because they approached by the parasitic monarchy, was the appurishment of the monarchy and allow the people of Swazan to detect on the means of the production that are there in the country itself. I think the political situation, in fact, in Swazan, also needed a socialist outlook, because I think it is through the socialist outlooks that we have seen problems of capitalism being solved in the world, not only in China or in Russia, but in the world, we have seen many problems being solved through the social outlook. So I think the formation of the communist part of the officers and also serves that purpose of bringing

a socialist outlook, a scientific outlook. outlook to the practical or to the scientific problems that are there in Swazden, which includes poverty. Swazden, I think, has been one of the leading countries in the prevalence of HIV, which was around 27.1, I think, which has dropped to around 25.4%. It has a population of around 38% living in extreme poverty, dropping from around 70% of the population of Swazden, living down the poverty line. Most of the population, itself and living through down the poverty line and living down in the rural areas

which are isolated from the open areas and which serves as a reserve or as a labor force of the monarchy and the capitalists where they pick people in fact where they take people in desperation for jobs to work in the industries in the open areas or in the industrial areas of the kind so there are those people that are in the rural areas of the kind of so there are those people that are in the rural areas that faces deep repression even today because of the underdevelopment that is there in Swazden.

So I think the existence of the formation of the Communist Party in Swazden was a historical moment as we were in fact a week back, we were appreciating the founding of the Communist Party 14 years back, which was

on the 12th of April 2011 where a nucleus of leadership was imaging in Swazza, I think also bringing a new outlook, which has, through its existence, have been able to bring some hegemony and also to uplift the consciousness of the people of Swazzozan. As I was a member of the Southern National Union of Students. I was recruited to the Communist Party through its ideology and also through its socialist outlook, which brought those practical solutions to the practical problems that we face in the country on daily basis.

So I think the establishment of the Communist Party, I think, was that nucleus in society that was established. I think that will grow into something that will motivate not only the people of Swazardin to fight against the monarchy, but through the success and also the liberation of the people of Swazard, which also serves as a motivation to other countries. and all the other communities that are facing repression, maybe not from the monarchy, which have developed from monarchy, but facing any form of repression to maybe, I think it is, which can serve as a motivation for the strategies that they are facing on daily places in different countries, in different communities across the globe.

So I think that the purpose, the community is part of Southern, is currently serving in the country and globally internationally, yeah. I think that would be what I can bring to the question that was raised on. I don't know if I should mention it, so let's keep this off the record while I think about it. We're back from some off-the-record chat, which was very fascinating, but the listeners will just have to imagine what we were talking about. But I want to turn to the Communist Party of Swazilin now. So as I mentioned earlier, and as you've talked about, the party was founded in 2011. Can you talk a little bit about how that process?

I always find it very interesting to discuss with members of communist parties globally about the foundation of their communist parties if those communist parties are relatively young. Although I do have to say that we were fortunate enough to interview Comrade Joma, Joma Sison of the Communist Party of the Philippines before he passed. So we even did talk about the foundation of communist parties that took place many decades before I was born. But with these younger, newer communist parties, it's very interesting to discuss how the process of foundation went, what the founding platforms were in what some of those initial actions were because, you know, unfortunately, in far too many places, there's not a vibrant young communist movement. And so for many of our listeners, it may be hard

to imagine how the process of founding a communist party goes, and particularly in the context of where you are struggling against a brutal, absolute monarchy in the present day. So can you talk a little bit about that process of founding the Communist Party of Swazzoan in 2011, what that founding platform was and what the initial actions that were planned by the Communist Party were back at that time, as well as how things have developed since then for the party? I think the foundation of the Communist Party of Swazin, which was on 9 April, we were celebrating our 14th anniversary just a few days back. was another historic moment

formed by mostly men and women that some of them maybe were in exile at that moment in time but it was from people by people who were like-minded I think one of the most critical point was the like-minded of the people who think like communists

people who think by or who respond to a situation by using the Marxist and the Lenin lenses to the situation that was there in the card because in the political movements that were there on the mass democratic movement of Swazland, it has only been the communist part of Swazland that's through since this foundation up until today has been consistent in the foundation or honest founding principle of abolition or appellation of the monarch or mobilizing people and criticizing people against the monarchy, which is the true reflection of the problems that the people of Surund are facing right now. Because whatever form of taking power that can be there, which can be either parliamentary or through negotiations, it's something that the Communist Party has seen that

the people of Surden could not benefit fully from that. It is only through a socialist revolution or the total accomplishment of the monarchy itself, that the people of Swazan can be the full beneficiaries of whatever the Swazan purchases or of the fruits of the revolution. And also, I think from its foundation up until now, in fact, this coming week on yesterday will be on our conference. I think it has been the only organization that was able to have its annual conference and congresses, also its annual winter schools and summer schools from its establishment up until today without even one being postponed. And its growth and its influence amongst the students in tertiary institution, in students in high schools and

primary schools in communities, and also in the trade union itself has been enormous. But I think the greatest significance that has been there ever since the establishment of the commune's part, I think it has been a significance that it had on the monarchy itself and also the imperial forces

that are there in our country because it is the only organization till today that questions the existence of the monarchy that is pulled to also, whether in communities wherever it takes up the podium, we are not tried to speak

of the question of the monarchy and also to bring that the only solution that is there in the country is the appurishment of the monarchy. So I think that's another special feature that the Communist Party has from its existence up until now. But I think another special feature of census foundation that the Communist Party has had, I think it's also the issue of mass mobilization that we speak of in the year of of 25 which we said with the repression that is happening in our country and also what we have seen in the as the X of 2021 the unrest that was the killing of our people the resilience and the resistance that we have noted with the people of sodden we have declared the year of 2025 as the year of 2025 and what do we mean by that

We mean that we want to convince the people of Switzerland in every sector of society, be it in the trade union, be it in the up and poor areas, be it in the communities, rural areas, the peasants, be it the students, the women movement as a whole, and also the mass democratic movement as a world, and also the international community wants them to be involved in the year 2025, which is the year of 20, of, of, of, of, mass mobilization, and the mass mobilization is towards the insurrectionary seizure of power against the monarchy. And also what does that mean? It means that we will go to the grassroots mobilization. I think the Communist Party of research is that it presents inside the country and also inside the country and also in the whole world, such that we have gathered, I think more than many countries and socialism.

that have acknowledged the existence of the Communist Party. Even though it has its existence up until today, it has been struck itself because it has many limitations that it had to face inside and outside the country as well. Because we know that imperial forces exist everywhere in the world. Even China itself is fighting imperial forces even right now. So the Communist Party is not excluded. from that. It had its own successes, but it also had its own setbacks. Assassination of leaders through poisoning, imprisonment of its members such as Comrade Bongo

is in prison right now. Targeting of communist members, as I speak right now, I think there was a justice for another students at Yuniswa, where students, particularly communists, Currently, there are three students that are in prison that were abducted by Ms. What is, police, because in fact, they were targeted. We still even have videos of how they were abducted inside those campuses. You can see that that campaign of police getting into the tertiary institution was primarily targeting communist students because they know the influence that they have. They know the call of mass mobilization, even the government-spoken person,

have said that when they had a fight with other communist leaders who were there in the trade union. Now, not the student movement, but the trade union, and that's not, which is the teacher's union, where there was a squabble between the police officers and the leaders of the union themselves. But the spokesperson of the government said it clear that we know that this is the mission of the Communist Party to mobilize masses to fight against the regime. but it has also popularized and also hedging monized the call for the Communist Party, which was not something that the Communist Party invented. According to what we saw, when we go to the communities,

when we monopolize the people in different sectors of society, that indeed the people, the question of the monarchy is something that the people have been challenging for decades and for years, and they are up for the call of the Communist Party to fight against the monarchy party. we know that for us to be successful in the mass mobilization and in the intersectionary seizure of power and also in leading the national democratic revolution, it needs the mass democratic movement as a whole.

It also needs the international community and other components which also include the military components of the Communist Party of Swazden because it's an armed insurrection, as I've said, which is true armed, not because we are people that are in favor powerful, but because the only possible solution to the suffering of the people of Southern or to peace in our situation, in our context, in Southern, is an armed insurrection. So we learned all those forces that play a certain role in the deprivation of the people of Sweden into the freedom of the people of Southern to be, to act in one because they should be in unity and purpose and that purpose should be to end that absolute monarchy. that exists in Swazzozand and also its remnants and its bequered tendencies that are in the country. So I think that's the history that I can share briefly about the communist part of Swazan

and also the Strakis that we have been facing, not only inside Swazzozden, but also outside Swazden where it is a developing party just 14 years. And in many countries we have learned in the Stratis that many countries have been facing, to earn recognition in countries, in different countries and within different organizations, which I think we've done very well, but as such is that the Communist Party are still facing where some organizations are deliberately, not necessarily that they don't see the impact of the Communist Party, but they are afraid to be seen as friends to the Communist Party of Southern because of what it declares, especially when it comes to the question of the monarchies,

Swazden. But also some organizations that exist in the world are imperial projects. They are trying to safeguard the projects of imperialism. So they make sure that they corner the Communist Party or suffocated the Communist Party of Swazirond into that corner because they are afraid of whatever that may start to exist in Swazirond if the Communist Party and also its vision sees the right of the day because I think there are many interests that are there in Swazden, not necessarily by the people of Surzstan,

but also by international forces that play a role into the political landscape of Southland. So I think that's the history that I can share, but as you've said, I only have 60 years in the

organization and most of the strategies that I'm speaking about are the practical strategies that have seen inside the organization in the six years and all the things that I've said. But most of the history that I've heard is the history that we share amongst ourselves as comrades. But we are also going forward to the conference, to the national conference of the Communist Party from the 15th ideal until the 28th, from the 17th until the 28th of April, which we are

going to shape the organization, once after that conference. to portray an organization that is indeed ready to take that leadership role in society in leading the masses of a sergeant in paying the vanguard of the working class of susten, in leading also the vanguard of, in leading, I mean, the mass democratic movement of susten towards their freedom

and also making sure that the real beneficiaries of the strike and also of the revolution of susten are indeed the people of susten, than what we have seen in other countries where we see setbacks that come into other strategies where we see. In fact, instead of taking two steps back, some strategies have taken a step away where we see even in Palestine right now, we have seen a ceasefire, but in two weeks, in a space of a month, even though they were struck his doubt, we're going on in the background

of what the world was seeing. But also we've seen now the war, the genocide, in fact, going back and continuing to happen. So I think the communist part we are trying to make ourselves as a formidable force that will be able to make sure that we make our vision indeed a reality and bring a socialist outlook and also a socialist setup in our country, which can be defined by a country. a kind of defined by knowledge and development, rather than what we are defined with right now,

which is being defined as subject of the king. There is no history that you can find about. There is very little history that you can find, but about the people of sorts then, rather than the history of being partakers in the umshanga ceremonial events and also in Goala Semamana event, and that the people of Swazan, they've shown loyalty to the king by doing one, two, three, one, two, three.

It's what the world knows about us. We are known as subject. So it's the thing we want to reverse about our society and redefining, redefine it and so that indeed the people of Southern are something that can bring something new into the world, which is characterized by development and also characterized by science. I think by that I'm also sharing also the visions of the Communist Party itself. But that's the history and also what I can.

I can share about the existence of the organization itself. And we are on a road of turning 15 years, 15 years. I think probably there are more advances that the Communist Party will bring about in the cycle of the people of Southern. And also on the opinion that we bring to the geopolitics or to the world geopolitics because we're in an organization. We exist. We've been recognized by many organizations internationally,

but most important even by the people of the president. So our existence gives us that freedom to give opinions to the world spectrum. What is happening in Palestine, what is happening in South Africa, in Cuba, in Vietnam, or anywhere else in the world. But I think also as we advance our strength, we will also be able to also give those views and ideas to the world so that we influence change to the society as a world. because our outlook does not necessarily end with the people of society, but it also ends with the entire working class being emancipated into power, the whole world being governed by the people themselves or by the working class itself.

So I think that's the history I can bring about the communist party of society. Thank you for that. I think one thing that should also be somewhat clarified is that this is, this isn't just a Swazi problem. There's also an incentive on South Africa with this issue. And not with Swazis in general. The relationship between Swazis as a people and South Africa has always been positive. I mean, Swazis, is one of our official languages.

But the monarchy, not the people of Swaziland, the monarchy, hasn't always had South Africa's best interests had had. I mean, it recently came out that, I think in 1978, under Sabozo, Swaziland secretly petitioned the UK at the US to not sanction about that South Africa. So South Africa hasn't always had the best friends in the monarchy itself. And that's quite important, because as we've seen with recent developments, there is a lot of proxy conflict, well, as usual, happening on the continent. Probably Congo is the most horrific and profound example of this, where there, as I'm sure you know, like with South Africa's involvement against the M23 rebels. that are basically a proxy pause for Rwanda. And just throwing it in, listeners, the M23 incursion into Congo was one of our recent episodes of the series.

So it would either be two episodes ago within the series or four episodes ago in the series, depending on when this particular episode gets released. So just to add in, we just had that episode come out on the feed. You'll hear George Nzingola and Talagia talk for an hour and a half on that. exact topic. So sorry for the interruption rule, but just to let the listeners know that they have that as a resource. No problem, no problem. But yeah, so there's a lot of these proxy conflicts happen where, okay, M23 is essentially a Rwandan proxy. But beyond that, there's a lot of United States and even Israeli involvement, especially in terms of of arming and providing

weapons. And as if you follow the news regarding South Africa, you've probably seen that we're not too popular with America at the moment. And there's a lot of attempts by America to almost sow dissatisfaction and unrest in South Africa. One example being Trump recently saying that white South Africans, Afrikaners, can claim refugee status despite the the almost insane level of privilege that white South African still maintain there's very little genocide happening as a white South African

if there's a genocide I haven't seen it in fact I have seen one and it's happening in Palestine but what this means is that Swaziland under the monarchy essentially can serve as a potential hub for more of this foreign proxy involvement and its close, its closeness with South Africa becomes a real threat, especially as, as like that was previously mentioned,

for example, the Israeli embassy has moved out of South Africa, and it looks like it's going to be moving into Swaziland. So Swaziland can serve as a potential hub for these proxies that do not have South Africa's best interest at her. So the abolishment of the monarchy is not just a Swazi issue, but a greater issue for South Africa's own integrity and independence as a whole. So with that being said, I do want to turn us towards the last part of this conversation, keeping in mind listeners that comrades Bofanabake and Rule are going to be back in the very next episode of this series to talk about the efforts at Cultural Revolution within Swaziland and the origins of that. and the reasons for that. So do, you know, stay tuned.

That's going to be an incredibly interesting conversation. But Kamred Bafanabake, you have something of an interesting situation yourself personally. And I think that that's something that I don't know how much you can say publicly about that situation. But I think that the listeners would be very interested to know about what you are going through, as well as it being an illustrative point of what the monarchy is carrying out against the Communist Party and opposition to the monarchy more generally. Thanks for that, comrade. Firstly, in fact, inside it was then there are a number of things that I faced as a political activist

and also as a member of the Communist Party, as I've said earlier, that the regime primarily targets communist because they are targeting also they are speaking against their existence so it happened that during the justice for Tabania was imprisoned given a

period of around 50,000 which in rents I'm not sure what can be the currency in in dollars but it was 50 rents because we use almost the same currencies

that of of South Africa. But then after that, after being in prison, in fact, I was in school, then I was, the following week I was supposed to be writing my examination at school. But fortunately, I was able to sit for that exam and also complete school. But after that, I was primarily attacked because there was one point in time where I was abducted by the military itself.

and I'm not sure whether you know how it feels like to be beaten up by military personnel using all forms of weapons, even the guns themselves. They would beat you up with the guns and everything that they had. But as a development to that, the police started hunting for me, giving threats and calls to myself and to people that I was close to, which led me to flee into South Africa where I'm currently in. And also, the condition in South Africa, as I think Comrade Ruiz said, that the current situation in South Africa does not favor the strike of Swazdin.

With the junior, it plays. I think the developments that we have seen also with the Palestine issue with the same regime that was there, purchasing apartheid in South Africa, being in power, and also the setup that is there in Swazan is an apartheid regime. Most of the machinaries, the industries and everything that is the administration itself was an apartheid regime because it was the poorers who were the first one to go into Swazzozand and annexed Swazan and Corrit and Protectorate, where we see five years later after the

hours between the poor and the British. In South Africa, we saw the English or the preachers coming to control and controlling and accessing and controlling Swazan. And also, the remnants of apartheid are still there in South Africa existing. And if they are there existing in South Africa and Swaziland, it means any communist movement or any communist ideas, they are always bringing a threat to exist in a country, especially when we want to change the political situation that is there in Swazan, why the apartheid regime is still breathing through Swazin?

Because I think 80% of the imports that are there in Swazan, they come through South Africa, and we are selling about 60% of the exports inside our country, and mainly using South Africa because we don't have any access to any ports, and in fact, the infrastructure and airports and everything that is there in the country. In fact, the first headline was established last year inside the country. So with transportation of goods and exports into other countries, it is very hard for Swazan to do it itself.

It hardly relies on South Africa. So there are also economic interests that a day I play between South Africa and Swazan. So being a communist, as my myself as a communist or any other communist member, the member of the communist part of Swazden, is also brings a threat to that. I think Comrade Rue has said that the situation in Swazard is not only a threat to Swazin, but it is also a threat to South Africa as a whole. The mercenaries that are there in our country that are speaking of area,

are the same messanaries that were there in South Africa during the upper date time. So the people that are handing political activists in Swazan are the same people who have a good establishment in South Africa, which makes the living conditions for one or for in political exile, especially a communist one, becoming those that are not favorable for one. But also hoping on the developments and on the changes that are currently happening and also on friendly forces that we rely on that exist within South Africa and the people of South Africa that are in the same strike against imperialism as we are facing in.

and we are able to survive through that conditions. But also through those conditions, it's not that we are here. The exile condition is a condition that gives you a moment for you to continue to organize the strategy. It also comes with those setbacks as an organizer of the Communist Party of Swazin, that in a condition where you cannot move freely, where you cannot pronounce yourself or declare yourself, clearly to anyone as who you are, what's your

mission. So it becomes a set pegs because you always find that cocoon that you have to live under so that you may protect your safety and also you protect the strategy for the people of Southern. But obviously the events that the

Communist Party was having, the annual conferences, the summer schools and the winter schools where we educate people about new members and also So we're shopping ourselves about the Marxist and the Deninist ideology and the practical issues that are day in our country. But we are reliant to, we rely on South Africa to have such events, especially at the Bumadang province, which continues to allow us. It is a moment for us, so long as we still have a moment to live, we have a moment to organize.

I think being in exile, it also gives me that advantage of a continuous. continuing to making sure that the vision of the communist part of Swazan, the vision of the people of Swazen, of attaining freedom, is still alive and will see the light of the day. But there are many experiences better good that we face in exile, necessarily not in South Africa, but in exile that cannot be good to one. But they also give one,

they come as a source of strength of resilience and resistance to whatever situation that one is facing. Because I think the most strangers and the most harsh condition for us that we are still have to exist in is the revolution. But if properly planned and scientifically orchestrated, I think it can limit all those limitations that one may have. But so long as we have a chance to organize, as the Communist Party has a chance to establish itself, as I've said earlier, that it was established by people, some of them, most of them were in exile when the Communist Party was established, the Kennedy Secretary and many other homebrates that in the central and in the leadership of the Communist Party are still in exile. But I think, apart all, it gives us that opportunity for us to re-establish ourselves,

to organize ourselves into that formidable force, into that formidable individuals, because we are individuals in the collective, each and everyone has its own experiences that he has to share. As I have said, we are going to a conference. Those are the practical experiences that we share amongst ourselves and see what are the possible ways or the possible direction that we can take to make sure that we eliminate all those limitations that we face, all that setbacks that our strike is facing,

that each and everyone of us is facing. It is almost the same condition that even the people that are the members of the Communist Party are facing in Suazan because they are communists, their existence is always questionable and under threat within the regime, as I've said, there are people in prison, as we speak right now, because of being commies and because of existing in that kind. And also the backwardness of that country itself, the repression and the poverty that the people are facing,

because mostly of our members are the people, is the working class, that the people who face the daily struggle is that the ruling regime or the monarchy is bringing to our, people. So on daily places, they are facing those starkies which include their access to health, poverty, and all those social ills that one may count or that poverty defines in any particular society. So we share

almost the same experience. I think also with the conference that we are going to be having as a communist part of us. It will be the moment of us, it is a moment of reflection with all these 14 years that we have been of existence and Sam being, Some being inside the country, something in prison, and losing some of our members through that that way, put inside and outside the country, and how we forge a way forward and how we build ourselves and strengthen ourselves to be that formidable or to take that leadership initiative that the Communist Party has or that fund control that the Communist Party has

into leading the masses of Swazzoan into a victory against. the Tinkungi autocracy and also into the feature against imperialism that has rooted itself inside our country. We have to make sure that we approach it and bring a new society together with the people of Southern because we can only lead the masses of Southern. We cannot

bring freedom to them, but we can lead them to victory. So I think that's the task we have attained with all the experiences we have, with all the setbacks that we have. The journey for freedom has known. You have a lot of setbacks, if I may say, but what matters to us the most is a vision that is still there, that continues to pain with whatever hardship that we may face in whatever situation, whatever country that we may find ourselves in. I might be in South Africa today, but the next year you may find that I'm not in South Africa in whatever country. Also, facing different complexities

is of the structure. In fact, probably that is why it is called the strike. Even if you can go back to the strike of the ANC itself, the MK itself was facing a lot of problems, especially in exile.

There were many problems that we were facing. The SACP itself was facing a lot of problems. But I think we cannot be defined by the problems who are facing right now. Because we are communist and we are determined in solving problems that we have on

places, bringing solutions in the problems that we have on daily places, I think it's the same mentality that we have as the Communist Party, bringing solutions to whatever problems that we have, which also can include roping international organization into the assistance of the strikers that we may face. There are many things that may need for a strategy to see the height of the day. It can be human resource and also money, which is a very much. which can not be thousands or hundreds can be huge amount of money that we need to make sure that we sustain the revolution, we sustain ourselves, wherever we are, we find capacity of whatever we want to do, whether media or propaganda, whatever, what the Communist Party is really, we do. So we need all those different strengths that can come into play to assist the Communist Party to see his vision, being one that come to. often existence or coming into practical means.

So all those structures that we are facing, I think to us, they are listening and also that their experiences that we have to bring practical solutions to them. I think with the strategies that I personally face, I think as in collective, as I belong to the collective of the Communist Party itself, are almost the same structures that any cater of the Communist Party is facing. and almost the same structure is that the people of Sweden themselves,

because those that are in jail right now, the dozens that are in jail, are not only communist party members, but are individuals or are people that are part of the society that stood up against the monarchies and decided to fight. Unfortunately, they find themselves in the course of the regime, but it is upon our strength, it is upon our action, and especially the mass mobilization, which I think it is key to the success of our strike itself,

that we make sure that we have that capacity and that strength, especially also the mental strength itself, for us to make sure that we pursue our revolution and make it success. That's what I can share, Comrade. Thanks. So a really interesting conversation today. There is, of course, a lot more to say, but Rule is in China, and it's well after 1 a.m., his time, So we do have to let him go to bed at some point.

It's also quite late in Russia and in South Africa right now. So we'll wrap this conversation up and look forward to our next conversation on cultural revolution. But I do want to give each of the two guests today, Rule and Bufanabake, the opportunity to have some closing remarks about what they should take home from this conversation. Rule, I'll open it with you first. And then you can also let the listeners know, in addition. to your closing remarks on this conversation where they can pick up building a people's art, which, as I mentioned at the top, is a book

that you edited. Yeah, definitely getting past my better time. So my brain is slowly starting to turn back into a pumpkin now. But just to close with everything we've talked about, first of all, I'd just like to note that I've been way out of my debt in this conversation.

Looking forward to the next one, which is a little bit more tailored to my expertise in the art. and stuff, talking about cultural revolution and propaganda and the evolution of culture. But I think it's quite easy to overlook something like Swaziland, mainly because it's so small, but also there is, I suppose, a racism towards Africa where many of the last colonial projects still remain on this continent. I mean, if we look at the world, I'm sure people will have more. But I think there are still three lingering big colonial projects. The one is at the

forefront, which is obviously Israel. But then we have Swaziland and Morocco, which is even less spoken about, the struggling Western Sahara. But from the Swaziland side, it's very easy to be masked the way and quite easy to be mistaken is something quite positive because obviously this is what we'll speak about in our following conversation

but maybe this can work as a little bit of a prelude towards that in that I don't think that there's anywhere on Africa in Africa where culture has been preserved

as well as it has been in Swazila We obviously, I now understand the reason for this, through colonial, deliberate, benevolent neglect and the fostering of, you know, the more repressive and unprogressive elements of culture in order to aid the colonial project and also from the monarchy who can maintain their rule under the guise of it being tradition. but Swaziland really has the aesthetic appeal of the perfect African situation, I guess, where you look at it visually, where there's racial harmony, where tradition is respected, it really looks like a success. And I think this is probably the biggest weapon that is used in order to keep Swaziland repressed. and so over. So it's important to not get blindsided by the aesthetic of things, especially when in our culture now where things like decolonial projects often are visualized as something this return to tradition, especially in the African sense. And what we have here is a

return to perdition, but one that's evolving into a colonial project that that might even be worse than the actual white colonial project that was imposed on it in the beginning. So it's, it's, yeah, it's easy to get, to get blindsided by this. And I think that's why situations like Swaziland are so important and shouldn't actually be side life. They may not be as, well, as you've heard, they're all pretty gruesome and vicious and there's a lot of bloodshed, but it may not be on the level that you see in Palestine, but that doesn't take away from the fact of how equally important it is. Yeah, and I think that that's an important thing to say that just because it's not the bloodiest

conflict doesn't mean that it's not an important one or one that can be inspirational. I mean, thinking about many of the colonial struggles, and we'll be talking about many more throughout this series, many of the decolonial struggles themselves, yes, they were bloody and yes, the colonial apparatuses were quite repressive, extremely repressive. But, I mean, if we're comparing it to what's going on in Palestine today, you know, what was going on in Guinea-Bissau, for example, doesn't come close to what Palestine was like. However, if you look at the PAIGC and their struggle, against Portuguese colonialism, that is an incredibly inspirational and useful struggle to study, analyze, and take inspiration from today, despite the fact that it is nowhere near

as bloody as what is happening in Gaza today. That's not to say, again, that there wasn't bloodshed, a lot of bloodshed, including many of the leaders of the PAIGC, Amalcar Cabral. but yeah just to underscore that point but rule you did bury the lead I know that you're not trying to advertise building a people's art that much but do tell the listeners a little bit about what that book is about and where they can at least download the digital copy of it for free yes yes oh god I hate the whole self-promotion thing I know you do I'm forcing you to so I I translated a few texts from some art theorists from wartime Vietnam that I think best encapsulates pretty much what we will be speaking about in the next episode as well, the cultural front of any struggle. So if you're interested in the cultural front of struggles and Vietnam, and if you just like looking at pretty pictures, you can find the book, it's for free on, I mean, buy it. If you can afford it, obviously buy it. The money goes to an animal welfare charity

in Vietnam. So if you can afford it, buy it. But if not, it's, it's free. But yeah, check it out. Isagribbooks.org. That is the website to go to, to buy it or to download the free PDF. Iscrubooks.org. I, of course, have the PDF for now because sanctions prevent me from getting any physical books. But it is an absolutely gorgeous book. And I can tell you listeners that the moment I get out of sanction land, just temporarily, of course, I have no plans on actually leaving. But when I am temporarily out of sanction land, I will be picking up a copy of building a people's art, a physical copy myself, because it would be an absolutely outstanding coffee table book for the images, but also is really, really a sharp

and incisive analysis of that cultural and art component, which we'll be talking about more next time. Now, Comrade Bafanabake, I hope you had fun on the program today and that you're looking forward to the next conversation as much as I am. Can you give the listeners your closing thoughts in terms of what you really want them to take home from this conversation and to look forward to in that conversation about cultural revolution, as well as also, of course, make sure to let the listeners know where they can find more information about the Communist party of Swaziland. Thank you so much, comrades, for having me.

It has been an interesting, especially where we have to share the structure of our people. I think I've made fun of sharing the strategies of our people and also mobilizing the international community as a whole to know what is happening in our country. So as then, I think, Comrade, who has also said that it's one of the strategies, that are negated in the world because of the whole population, obviously, and also because there are no much economic interests that are there for many countries to be actively involved in the struggles of the people of Swazan. But the Israel of Swazirid itself, it has been defined by the people struck against the royal supremacy

or the autocratic regime that is there in our country. And also being a communist myself and also the formation of the communist party, I think, it has been an inspiration from the ongoing strategies around the world and the victories that we have seen from strategies that has been happening all over the world that have told us that, yes, it is indeed possible for you to end the absolute monarch. And also that science always proved to us that nothing is permanent. And surely we know that freedom would come to the people of Switzerland. And also we also take that resilience and strength that we have as the Communist Party President

from the resilience of the people who have refused to die from poverty for over decades of time that they have been living under repression itself. And also as an organization we have been existing for 14 years, looking for another hundred years more, maybe that the party will exist. I'm not sure for how long, but we are looking for many more years of the party to exist. And also what is most important is the vision of the people of Swazzozant, is the vision of our strategy, which is deprivation and the freedom of the people of Southern and ending the absolute monarch.

And also the virtue of the working class, not only in Africa or in Southern only, but also the victory of the working class international. I think Calamax made justice and put it clearly that the task of the working class is for it to unite. What we have to lose is nothing but the chains of operation that we carry on daily places. So comrades, thank you so much, once again, for having us here, having the communist party, and having the strike is off-swers and paying shirt on your platform. And looking forward for the future sessions like this, where we engage more and take more on the history and also on the starkies and also the Cultural Revolution, I think, also as Comrade Rue, specializes on it. But it was an honor to me and also it was more fun to be part of this platform.

Thank you so much, Congress. Absolutely. And of course, the Communist Party of Swaziland is a friend of us at Guerrilla history. and vice versa. But, Comrade Bofanabake, can you let the listeners know where you would like to direct them to in terms of finding more information

about the Communist Party of Swazolin if there's any particular sites or social media platforms that you would recommend them to check out, to learn more? Yes, the Communist Party is almost in most media platforms which include Facebook. It's found as the Communist Party of Swazeland.

It's just written that, You just write the communist part of Swazzoz, and you search, you follow. You'll see the, we share most of our details on the Facebook page. The structure is our events that we have. But you can also find us on Twitter, which is C.P. underscore Swaziland. And we have an Instagram page, which is CP Swaziland. And also you can email us at cp.org at gmail.m.com. and also in our website, which is currently having some challenges right now,

but I think it will be soon and working in not time, which is suprisland.org. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll have several of those link in the show notes as well for the listeners to click on and get directed directly to them. I was going to ask about the website. I thought that I tried earlier and couldn't get in, and I thought it might have been because I was in Russia, but I have the link. Yeah, I have the link. It's just, yeah, I thought that it was because I was in Russia, it wasn't letting me in. But now, you know, you said that you're having some technical difficulties with it. So let me know when it's up and running. And we will be sure to share that website with everyone as well. All right, listeners, as for my co-host, Adnan

Hussein, who was unfortunately not able to make it here today, but he has texted me and told me that he'll be here for the next conversation on Cultural Revolution. You can follow him on Twitter at Adnan A. Hussein, H-U-S-A-I-N. As for me, you can find me on Twitter at Huck, 1995-H-U-C-K-1-9-95. And you can also find the show on various social media platforms. We're on Twitter at Gorilla underscore Pod. That's G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A-U-S-Pod. On Instagram, Gorilla-U-Histor History.

and you can subscribe to our free email newsletter GorillaHistory.substack.com, again, Gorilla, spelled with two R's. And lastly, you can help support the show and allow us to continue making episodes like this by going to patreon.com forward slash guerrilla history. Again, G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A history. And until next time, listeners, Solidarity. So, you know, we're going to be able to be.

Thank you.