Guerrilla History - The Black Liberation Army w/ Comrade Z of Rookery Press

Episode Date: February 17, 2023

In this episode of Guerrilla History, we bring on Comrade Z from Rookery Press to talk about a vital new book Collected Works of the Black Liberation Army. In this episode, we discuss the history, idology, tactics, and legacy of the BLA, and we truly feel this is an important episode. We highly encourage everyone to pick up the book, and also share the episode with others who would benefit from hearing about a militant and radical organization, based off of their own writings!   Comrade Z is a member of the Rookery Press. Rookery Press is a new publishing house dedicated to retrieving forgotten texts and theory lost to the Whirlwind. You can find their published works on their website, and you can also follow them on twitter @rookerypress   Help support the show by signing up to our patreon, where you also will get bonus content: https://www.patreon.com/guerrillahistory

You don't remember Den Van Booh? No! The same thing happened in Algeria, in Africa. They didn't have anything but a rank. The French had all these highly mechanized instruments of warfare. But they put some guerrilla action on. Hello and welcome to guerrilla history. the podcast that acts as a reconnaissance report of global proletarian history

and aims to use the lessons of history to analyze the present. I'm one of your co-hosts, Henry Hukimaki, joined as of now by only one of my usual co-hosts, Professor Adnan Hussein, historian and director of the School of Religion at Queen's University in Ontario, Canada. Hello, Adnan. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. It's a real pleasure to be with you, Henry. Absolutely. Unfortunately, we're not joined as of now by Brett O'Shea, who, of course, is host of Revolutionary Left Radio and co-host of the Red Menace podcast, having some internet problems. But we're hoping that he will be able to join us during the flow of the

conversation. So listeners, if you hear Brett pop in, you can give yourself a silent cheer while you're listening, because we will also be doing so if we see him pop in here. Now, before we introduce our guests today, Adnan, I'm going to turn this over to you. This is the beginning of almost another little mini series or a new style of episode. episode within guerrilla history. So perhaps you can introduce what this type of episode is going to be with this being the inaugural episode of it and then introduce our guest. Yeah, great. I mean, I think I've thought for a while that some of the more interesting aspects of analysis in the radical tradition are in the writings themselves, the documents, the historical record. So primary source work and interpretation and reading and learning and thinking through works from the past, documents from the past to get an understanding. That's how history is actually made. So in terms of sources and methods, much like we have some other kinds of episodes like intelligence briefings or dispatches or reconnaissance reports, this is a new kind of episode that we hope to begin.

doing that focuses and concentrates on the documents themselves, the writings of revolutionaries, and the ways in which we can engage with these source texts themselves in thinking about the history, both of their time and our own. And so to inaugurate this series, I'm really thrilled that we're going to be discussing a forthcoming book, a book that's about to be published. In fact, listeners, you may be able to get it just as you listen to this episode. It's publication is imminent, which is the collected works of the Black Liberation Army published by Rookery Press. And we're really thrilled to be able to have Comrade Z from Rookery Press joining us today. Z, welcome to guerrilla history. Tell us a little bit about yourself and

And also, if you wouldn't mind, tell us a little bit about the project of the Rookery Press. What's the goal and purpose of this very unique and interesting publication effort? Hi, hello, good afternoon. I'm Z. I'm with the Rookery Press. We're a small publishing house retrieving rare revolutionary texts from the Roldwin to the masses. Now, our goal and our project, as the Riquary Press, multiple repress itself is not a political group

but a lot of us are a long time organizers and we started this press because we realized there's a lot of theory and education floating around about the new left in the 60s but if you want to learn more so about the BLA or other folks then you really have to dig and search through old scans that are barely legible

you got really nowhere to look if you just Google you know like Black Liberation 60s then you really only get like surface level of the BPP and Martin Luther King Jr. Some other names like Kwame Chodei, but before they transitioned to become Quarma Jorne, and that's so much about it. So the books that we publish, these people, they live and they died revolution.

Many of them spent many decades in prison because of what they did, and their writing reflects that. And we think that it is not only a disservice to the lives that they lived and all of their sacrifices, but it's a disservice to us today to not be able to find those lessons, learn from those lessons, and progress ourselves mentally. Yeah, that's great. It's such an important project. And I think, you know, what you've mentioned about the inaccessibility of a lot of these works, you know, as part of the Lost Archive, it sounds like. You,

are trying to, you know, this is also an archival project to make sure that these are preserved, available, disseminated, because a lot of things have been forgotten or suppressed. And I wondered if you had any thoughts about how you go about selecting these things and the processes by which, you know, revolutionary movements and their productions, Their theory and their practice has been either suppressed or marginalized and why certain things have been forgotten that we need to remember. Well, in terms of a selection process, some of us at the Rickory Press, we keep our ears to the ground and we be our eyes open wide

and we listen to a lot of the conversations that are going on often about not simply the the left and the movement within the United States but also internationally. And as you mentioned,

this is an archival project. So not only just that was also a passion project, so a lot of us have already spent a lot of time researching a lot of these groups like the BLA. So while we find a lot of insight

for reading these texts, we also find a lot of the debates that are going on in organizing spaces or online that groups of the BLA have already resolved these answers almost 60 years ago, right? And their answers today are just as irrelevant as they were back then. So Nali is that the selection process that we use,

but we also take taking account a lot of things that we've seen published at the time and place, and we try to really find that low, that little missing hole that's right there, that the other side or the side that's really more neglected as maybe as a result of repression or maybe as a result of let's just say maybe opportunism.

But we know that these lessons were given to us for a reason and that to shirt them, to ignore them, to look away from them can be nothing but just incorrect. And it's necessary for us to have a

to have any kind of complete understanding of anything that we have to look at the entire picture and from that point on in terms of selecting a text primarily we all come as a group we put on the board what we think is what we think is maybe more interesting or or may need it at the time and place and then we move off from there and deliberate about it democratically and come to an answer and then the project begins that's really terrific and I just want to say that this project that Rookery Press has embarked on, not just with regards to this book, but the project of the press entirely fits perfectly within this series that Adnan proposed for us to take up. And I know Brett and I both incredibly excited about being able to embark on

this journey ourselves of looking at these source documents. So I do think that this is, as the last line of Casablanca goes, the beginning of a beautiful friendship between us and Rookery Press because this project that you are on and the project that we're trying to start here with this series really go hand in hand just beautifully. So looking forward to collaboration going on into the future. I do want to turn us towards the book that is at hand, though, the one that Adnan mentioned is going to be releasing imminently. So either the day that this episode comes out, the day after this episode comes out, or thereabouts. So we will of course, link to Rookery Press in the show notes, listeners, you should absolutely go in

and look through all of their materials and then keep an eye open for this specific work, which is the collected works of the Black Liberation Army. So as we get into the discussion of this book, Z, I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about what is this collected works of the Black Liberation Army, but also what is the Black Liberation Army? I think basically all of guerrilla history's listeners are very acutely aware of the Black Panther Party, for example, as well as various other groups from the 1960s, radical groups from the 1960s. But the Black Liberation Army tends to slip below people's consciousness for a few different reasons, one being that they, of course, were operating clandestinely. So they just weren't in the limelight quite as much as

other organizations like the Black Panther Party. But also because many media outlets and other, let's say, left-ish publications tend to want to hide the Black Liberation Army from the light of day. At least that's how it comes across to me. So perhaps for listeners who are not aware of the Black Liberation Army, or at least would need another primer before understanding the conversation a little bit more, who were the BLA? And then can you introduce this new work that Rookery Press is putting out the collected works of the Black Liberation Army for us? So the Black Liberation Army is a political military organization that at one point functioned as the official organized underground military wing of the Black Liberation Movement itself. The Black Liberation Army itself was acting, depending on who you ask, most accurately we can say between night. 1868 and

1985, the Black Liberation Army itself, when it was officially referred to, started out as the official argument of the Black Panther Party.

A lot of people when they go over the Black Panther Party, but in the Black Panther Party's 10-point program, one of the points is that no member of the party may be a part of any other

military organizations besides the Black Liberation Army. As the Black Liberation Army, progress, evolved, became more mature. It eventually became its own independent organization. This is more so due to the political strife that was going on both externally and internally within the Black Party itself. So the Black Liberation Army had to become somewhat of a haven for the more militant members of the Black Reversion movement who were left on the outs after political oppression and internal conflict from.

during the course of the party's life. I would really like to get a lot much more in depth into the history of the Black Liberation Army, but I would tend to seg you. But in terms of what this collected works is, this text itself is a collection from the Black Liberation Army Coordinating Committee. The Coordinating Committee

is an iteration of Black Liberation Army that came into fruition after 1975, which I would love to get more into um later on down at our conversation but this text itself is a collection of the works put out by the coordinating committee um it includes the black liberation army study guide which is a collection essays detailing the ideological practical philosophical and strategical framework of the black liberation army and um so evidently uh it was the study guide um the black liberation army um i think is a very good example of the mind behind

the gun philosophy. That is that all professional revolutionaries must understand for what they're fighting, why they're fighting. As Thomas Sankarer famously said, you know, a soldier of a revolutionary,

a political education is a criminal, right? It also includes the Black Liberation Army Political Dictionary, which is a glossary of key terms and phrases. as well as several other independent essays such as message to the black movement, which is actually the Black Liberation Army Community Committee's inaugural text, open letter to the white left,

and especially rare Black Liberation Army text that I don't think has ever ever been put into print again since the time it first came out, which is towards the liberation of the Black Nation organized for New African People's War. Yeah, really terrific. And I do want to get into the history, but just first to reiterate, the three parts of this book for the listeners, just so that, you know, listeners, you need to get this book. It's super interesting and also very important for us to not only understand one of the most radical groups within the, you know, 60-70s, primarily active between

1970 and 1981, but also it's just a very educational book and really useful for people who are just getting into political consciousness, I must say. So the Black Liberation Army study guide, the first part of the book, as you mentioned, Z, is a series of essays that really lay out many of the basic concepts primarily within the tendency of Marxism-Leninism, but not simply within the tendency of Marxism, Leninism. So if somebody has no idea what historical materialism is or dialectical materialism, they have short explanations of what these key terms are and why these various theories and terms are important for the Black Liberation Army,

but also are important for us more generally within the revolutionary left. So, you know, people that are just starting to get into politics, this is going to be very interesting for and very useful for, as is the political dictionary, which is really, as you mentioned, a glossary of terms that for people that are just getting into this particularly, we'll find it very, very useful. And then the third part with the essays,

some of these essays are really fascinating, and I'm hoping that we get to talk more about, each of these essays. Hopefully we have time to talk about all of them, but we'll talk about at least some of them during the conversation.

But I know that you want to talk more about the history of the BLA, so I'm just going to unleash you here. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about the history of the BLA, and I'll just leave it at that

and see how you want to take it. No problem. Thank you. Elie me is very accurate. Oh, and I'm really looking forward to it. We have Z off the leash right now. So as I mentioned before, the Black Liberation Army was at one point the official armed wing of the Black Panther Party. A lot of other individuals who were members of the Black Liberation Movement can be said of been part of the Black Liberation Army before even joining the Black Panther Party.

For instance, if anyone has ever heard of Field Marshal Don Cox, Field Marshal Don Cox, was actually involved in the Black Underground made before he even joined the Black Panther Party. Before the Black Panther Party had officially cited the Black Liberation Army as its official military wing

in Mexico City during one of a student demonstration a demonstrated who had been slain by the Mexican police was actually found that I've had in his pocket a paper that said Black Liberation Army on it.

And this is just about the onset. Late 1960, about coming into 1969. So for a lot of people, the Black Liberation Army was a philosophical entity. It really presented the Black Underground itself. It wasn't a actual, tangible unit or organization. If you were a Black freedom fighter and you were involved in the underground or illegal struggle,

You will remember the Black Liberation Army. Now, going into 1969, 1970, 1971, this is when the Black Liberation Army began to form as the actual wing of the Black had the party. In 1969, 1970, underground units are being formed throughout the rural United States, Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, the rural parts of California. and we have individuals such as Geronimo Pratt before he could expel. Again, Don Cox, sort of training up the above ground cadre of the Black Panther Party.

At this time, also, we do have individuals on the East Coast side of thing beginning to make their presence known as part of the Black Underground. For instance, and this is, of the direct report from the Justice Department itself in August of 1971 about 20 members of the New York

Black Panther Party went down to Georgia and began conducting periodical guerrilla warfare schools. During one of these schools that they actually performed an expropriation of a local bank in Fayetteau. So we can see a tangible development in the skill

and tactical awareness of the black liberation movement on a military cycle Unfortunately The 1970 to about 1973 is the peak of the Black Liberation Army In late 1971, the Black Liberation Army

began to form at its own independent unit away from the Black Party, and this is the direct result of the counterintelligence program, and as a result of the big infamous split within the party. One key thing of note to note, however, is that the split, which is always characterized as a

QEP Newton versus Eldish split, is inaccurate to put it as such, right? It wasn't really so more so as a Newton versus Cleaver split as it was a Newton versus a demonstrably anti-Newton split. Because it was at this time where the Black Panther Party was starting to focus much more so on its serving people programs and taking a more parliamentary stance.

This is around the time when Nguip Nguyen was appearing on on television saying that the Black Panther Party itself never advocated some of violence or violent overthrow of the of the United States Imperial System.

This is during the time when KV Nguyen was expelling the most militant members of the Black Panther Party as such as the Panda 21. So when this split happens on all those all those all those members are nowhere to go they have they have no kind of protection system that they're now pretty much operating on their own so many of them almost all them primarily go underground and they now start to to materially develop the apparatus that

would become the official black liberation army independent of the black panther party i go on to mention i mentioned i mentioned eulge cleaver in that in that in that brief instance because this idea that Aldous Cleaver himself was a leader of the of the Black Liberation Army and just so that as he did his historical account, people are really made aware that that is one of the key mischaracterizations or skewing of history that I believe is there to give a negative connotation towards the actions of the Black Revolution Army, the Black Commission Army itself, because as we know, Elder's Cleaver

doesn't stand up in a really great light in retrospect. But I mentioned this specifically because, again, that for some reason, Aldous Cleaver was put as lead of the Black Liberation Army, but when we go back and we look through other accounts

outside of the Black Liberation Army, as for instance, as for Sefia Bucari, again, Donald Cox, they all specifically mentioned that forever official involved in the Black Liberation Army. That's right there. Just that's directly and straight.

In 1975, the Black Liberation Army put out a call for consolidation. Up until that point, the Black Liberation Army was a network of autonomous decentralized underground cells. Every cell was independent of another cell. This was, on paper, great for security, but it isolated every gorilla from another gorilla

and if anyone wanted to have any kind of collaboration or any kind of activity with another gorilla they would have to go through painstaking exercises to get in contact with their comrades. This also isolated them from the railroad. The railroad was the Black liberation movement's logistical support networks, right? Of which the funeral Vicarby, again I mentioned, with one of their principal members.

So in 1975, a call gets put out to consolidate the Black Liberation Army because it's at this point that the Black Liberation Army has suffered many, many losses. We know one of the biggest ones before this is in 1973. Assala Shakur is captured

on a New Jersey Turnpike. Zainiqqqqqqqqqqq is killed. Sanyata Akoli, who has recently been released, is captured two days ago. I mean, two days after the New Jersey Turnpike shooting. We have

many other members such as Mark Essex is killed in action. Robert Webb's San Ipirate. These are all people who are killed in action through direct political oppression or due to the internal threat from ordering of the Black Party Central Committee. So at that point, the Black Liberation Army has suffered many losses.

Their fighting capacity has dropped considerably. So the cause plug, again, consolidate. And that is when the Black Liberation Army Coordinating Committee is formed. The Black Liberation Army Committee is the second phase of the Black Liberation Army. The Coordinating Committee itself was primarily comprised of incarcerated comrades. Now, the people who comprise the Coordinated Committee itself is never really revealed. If you do your research, you can kind of get an idea of who may have or may have, may have not been on the coordinating committee,

but the members are never really revealed themselves. In fact, I'm kind of at a loss to even say right now who may or who may not have been on the coordinated committee. I don't want to dry snitch. However, one of the most interesting things to me while researching the coordinated committee is that almost every text ended by the Black Liberation Army Committee is ended with Nairobi.

It's never revealed if Nairobi is a act. person. If it's an alias for the CC themselves, no one ever talked about it, ever at all. Naira is a ghost. But we do understand that yes? Okay, because in reading the essay

I kept wondering, okay, what does Nairba mean or who is it? So you're saying that this remains something of a mystery and maybe some kind of stand in for the coordinating committee as a whole, because of course all the entire corpus

of the collection of the black you know collected works of the black liberation army in this coordinating committee phase they're all essentially anonymous they're just statements from the black liberation army or essays from the coordinating committee without special or attributed authorship right exactly um so in respecting that anonymity we're gonna allow them to remain this according to committee but whoever nairba is is never revealed ever no one in any text outside of the flight that works of the black liberation army that mentioned the black liberation army no one has ever even brought up the name nairba ever so that has to me in something but it's at this time the black liberation army consolidates the black liberation study guide

is released message to the black movement is released a new network is put out a newsletter is formed so that members of the Black Liberation Army can finally communicate amongst each other and use the study guide and all these essays coming out to perform fatigue, self-fritique, to perform group political analysis. And it's really astounding because we have to remember that the chief members of the coordinating committee are all people who are incarcerated. So the fact that they were able to produce these many theoretical works and have them circulate, within the black underground at this time, we're in just in 1975, starting to going to 1976, is astounding.

It really shows the dedication that these fetal fighters had for their struggle and the dedication they had for each other and their selflessness to be able to risk likely them to distribute these

in prison in the prison case, it would be confidential of material contraband out of the prison camps and out into the underground outside. Yeah, that is amazing. You're right. I mean, to the fact that this body of work was produced by a collective of people in incarceration under the prison, the oppressive prison system is truly astonishing. I mean, this is amazing, amazing work. And so actually, I don't know if you've.

completed the history that you wanted to talk about. I mean, of course, there's many opportunities to bring things as relevant, but I want it, you know, in the conversation, but I wanted to talk a little bit about the Black Liberation Army's study guide, the first part of this book. And since it is kind of an ideological primer as well as also a lot of other things, I did want to ask a little bit about how they discuss. distinguish themselves and what their political and theoretical line on the question of the black nation and what kind of revolution, since they're talking about the black liberation

movement, what kind of a revolution they were advocating and working towards, because I noticed that they're very conscious about distinguishing their approach from some of the other movements around, and in particular the classic big question here of how do you relate the question of race and racism and liberation of black folk to ordinary kind of mainstream Marxist's class struggle analysis that talks about a proletarian revolution. And there's one chapter after building up a few concepts about the black nation that we could talk about and about revolutionary consciousness and its analysis that has as an explicit chapter, no two proletarian revolution or something like no proletarian revolution no right so that was interesting and

I wanted to explore with you this unique kind of orientation and analysis ideologically that they had how do you place it and how do we understand it and I just want to drive that last point home that Adnan mentioned because I think that this is probably for me that's the most interesting part of the entire book is that throughout and Z you're of course going to talk about this in much more depth and much more eloquently. I'm sure that I will, but throughout you see a relative wholesale embrace of Marxism, Leninism, with some, you know, wrinkles thrown in there, but perhaps the biggest deviation is this outright rejection of proletarian revolution, which is, of course, one of the central tenets of Marxism, Leninism. So for me, as a Marxist,

Leninist, particularly, I know I do bring my ideological lens to my reading of this. It was a very fascinating thing to see. So just to drive that point home and allow you to go off. Right. So up until the point before the Coordinary Committee was created, the Black Liberation Army never had an official ideology. Even members like Kwaski Balago was the anarchist, was in the, we're in the Black Liberation Army, and they really noticed the back was over ideology.

When the Coordinated Committee was created and the Black Liberation Committee was created and the Black Liberation Army study guide was put out, we can see at that point that the Black Liberation Army is toting a Marxist-Leninist line. Full stop. We noticed because throughout the text, they mentioned that they are, that there are certain guidelines that the black cadre, that the black communes should be conducting themselves towards and it should be doing this either in relation to a Marxist-Lennonist fashion or plainly in a Marxist-Leninist fashion. um so at least during the iteration of the black of black of the bLA coordinating committee it was a it was at that point in marxious lane in this political military organization now in terms of black revolution or the vLA specific interpretation of marcus of marcus sonnism um the black revolution army and the black conversion movement many even most military members were of the opinion that black people

within the United States constituted a internal colony and as such they possessed the right of self-determination as expressed by Lenin

and as expressed by Stalin in the national question although although those two texts specifically are never explicitly mentioned in the study guide themselves. However, when we speak on the

nature of Black Revolution, which is the first text inside of the Black Liberation Army Study Guide, they make it clear that they have a primary prerogative and then they're on a secondary

prerogative. Their primary prerogative is the liberation of all black people within the United States, right? And this is very similar to initiatives taken by other revolutionaries within the global South, such as the Vietnamese revolutionaries,

Filipino revolutionaries, the Chinese revolutionaries, where first off, when they were dealing with a colonial entity, they first wanted to rid themselves of that colonial entity, get to a point where they're able to express self-determination, and they're on deal with the issue of class warfare. The Black Liberation Army has a similar, if not equivalent opinion, right?

They want to establish a safe haven for black people. They mentioned specifically the Republic of New Africa. Many members of the Black Liberation Army, if not outright members of the Republic of New Africa, were very well-acquainted or affiliated with the Republican New Africa themselves. The Republic of New Africa, for anyone who isn't aware, consists of the Black Belt South. So that would be South Carolina, Georgia,

Louisiana, Alabama, North Carolina as well. Certainly Mississippi. Mississippi, Mississippi. Some people also like to argue for bits of Texas and bits of Florida in there too. Those states right there.

Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Carolina. That section of the United States at that time was the center of the slave economy of the of the of the chapter of slave trade

between the United States and that section of the United States represented a black nation historically as that at that point that was the chief concentration of the bad people of the United States black people did care at that point

argued they were a nation could be considered a nation as African internal colony and so the black liberation army sought to win that portion of land and sought to educate the masses towards advocating

for national liberation. However the black liberation army were still very strong proponents of socialism as you can see later in the text but he's saying you know, fight for free to land, fight for socialism,

armed new Africans in the 80s to fight against fascism. However, in terms of the question, they always touted that first national liberation to come first, and then we should fight on towards the socialist agenda. Or class warfare, the class warfare struggle

establishing a socialist America. In terms of the essay, which is a very, very interesting essay, very intriguing essay, very ex-libering essay, proletary revolution, no. The key point throughout that essay is that

while not necessarily that they have an issue of proletary revolution or the concept of proletary revolution, in fact, the Black Revolution and the study guides say that if a Socialist America was to be established, that

the issue of racism, racism would substantially be substantially erased as the antagonisms between black workers and white workers that is exacerbated by racism due to conflicts in securing labor and providing for themselves and their families would be a racist. Everyone would be able to, everyone would no longer be alienated from their labor and would receive the fruits of their labor as the entire people will be in control of the means of production. However, their key point throughout this sex is that black people constitute a very, very minute portion of the proletariat within the United States, that the proletariat within the United States and keep speaking towards the white working class, the white politerate in the United States, has come to a point where they are wholly antagonistic towards what it would mean to perform not only a to perform in and alongside a national liberation movement but also to engage in class warfare as a result of the propagandism by the U.S. ruling class their argument is that the orthodox Marxists

that they call it propagandist would first have to realize that for a proletarian revolution to succeed, there has to be a proletariat movement. As far, there is no proletariat movement, so a proletarian revolution cannot succeed. They must first contend with that issue. They also elucidate that to contend with that issue, they have to contend with the fact that at that point in time,

the proletariat is now becoming a lackey of the, of the American ruling class by way of Imperial value transfer by way of receiving certain subsidies certain benefits certain booms

from nationally oppressed democracies to the United States and from oppressed peoples within the global south way ahead of their time way ahead of their time

this is something that burnout that we're still seeing argue today that Black Revolution Army has already to pose the question on me come to come to an answer is do members of the global north benefit from the oppression of peoples across the world? And of course, it's something that has already been talked about extensively. Lennon was talking about it. Sondon talked about it. Marks talked about it.

At that time, however, within the black liberation movement and the overall civil rights movement in the United States we understand that there was a out of the best of the pretty there was a false nationalist false internationalist outlook especially false nationalists

the civil rights era was highly pushed mainly as a movement with the leadership of black people of nationally and the press people we have the American Indian movement at the same time the issue of proletary revolution took a backseat to that because of that members of the white left hopped on board let's just say for lack of a better word hopped on board this predominant issue and failed to actually go in most cases we do see that in places like like chicago with the rainbow coalition these issues were they attempted to address them but in terms of the entire quote unquote white working class white

white proletariat white masses the issue and idea of proletary revolution was never fully addressed. It's at this time in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s that the CPUSA itself is starting to

lack of a better words in comparison to its glory days and every white anti-imperialist white communist worth their salt is someone who connects themselves to the black liberation movement because they understand that this is a principal movement and this is a movement that will demonstrate

quote unquote their solidarity, right? So the entire argument of the black of the black remission army within that essay, Politary Revolution know is that, one, at this point in time, political revolution is nothing that can happen because there is no proletarian movement. Two, we reject political revolution

because we as a black group Constance in such a minute portion of the black Of the proletariat And we are a nationally oppressed demographic That we are solid Seeking National Liberation As an internal colony And we are seeking to be

A A A A people who are fleeing into To determine their own destiny As such Our motives and angles are in antagonizing to each other

and three that the white working the quote unquote white working class white proletariat um has become antagonistic to the idea

of one and two a um a overthrow of the systems and an entity of the American Empire itself and the liberation of of a of uh of the black masses you know i have to say i i absolutely love how you took that question

and there was so many things that i want to bring up so i'm just going to mention a few things and none if you have anything that you want to add on any of these topics before we turn it back over to z i kind of like the idea of just leaving it wide open for z to talk because really i i'm enjoying this tremendously allowing uh z to just go and uh you know really let this information flow one of the things that you mentioned was that really at this time they were ahead

of their time in terms of thinking of exploitation of the third world things that we would now call unequal exchange of course we had been talking about this since the days of Lenin and even Marx to some extent

but really when you think about it the people that we refer to these days when talking about these issues, Emmanuel Wallerstein, Argyri Emanuel, Samiramin, they really were only starting their work at the same period of time. Those three people really started their work in the 60s, you know, Samarman right at the tail end of the 60s, Wallerstein and Emmanuel, just a little bit earlier than that. And their work really only started to reach more prominence in the 70s and in the 80s, while this group was already well underway in putting out these publications,

So it's really interesting to think that these sorts of thoughts that were being analyzed by people that we still refer to today as being the benchmarks of these schools of thought, Wallerstein, Emmanuel, Samiraman, this is the same kind of conversation that they were having within the coordinating committee of the Black Liberation Army at this time. So it's really interesting to think about. But you know, you also mentioned that there were certain groups, even within Marxist Lenin, groups within the United States, white Marxist Leninists, particularly that were kind of distancing themselves from ideas of armed revolution or, you know, violent revolution as a means to achieving success. And that being one of their critiques, it's interesting just to think back to the 1960s in the era, in the 1970s, the era that we're talking about here. And considering that being, you know, the case. In many of these cases, if you look at groups like the Communist Party of the United States, they really were distancing themselves from things like armed revolution and political violence. And that was something that the Black Liberation Army explicitly called out. But one of the other things in terms of ideology that I want to bring up that I think you were kind of touching on at points, but I want to make explicit, is their analysis of the lump and prolet.

So just to this is very interesting. And I see Adnan raises his eyebrows here. So maybe you'll have something that you want to add Adnan. Just to make sure that I'm not throwing out terms here. I know that I've already cited Wallerstein and Emanuel and I'm in that many of our listeners probably haven't read. And there's of course no shame in that. There's a reading recommendations for you. Just to make sure that everybody's on the same page in terms of the lump and proletariat, though, I'm actually going to use the Black Liberation Army political dictionary just to show you how handy this glossary is for people who are unfamiliar with these terms, you can go right to the entry for lump and proletariat and see the underclass, unemployed, marginally employed, and those who live

outside of the law, such as the criminal, quote unquote, element, the aged, infirm, and disabled are also part of this class because they are marginally employed and therefore not a secure part of the productive process. Those on welfare and social security are also members of this class. So lump and proletariat literally means raggedy proletariat. It, within traditional Marxist analysis, like orthodox Marxist analysis and even early Marxist Leninist thought, and this is something that they point out throughout this text, is that the lump and proletary, it was analyzed to be a relatively untrustworthy class, particularly in revolutionary times.

But the Black Liberation Army views them as perhaps the most revolutionary subset of society. And they cite France Fanon numerous times in his analyses of when race or colonialism is added into the equation rather than the contexts that we were looking at back in Imperial Russia or Marxist's day even before that. When you add race and colonialism into the equation, as Fanon points out, the Lumpin proletariat does take on this more revolutionary character and become perhaps not. the vanguard, but really one of the driving forces of a potential revolution. And yeah, Adnan, I don't know if there's anything you want to add in there. I know you know Fanon as well or better than anybody else I know. So you probably have something far more interesting to say on that than I do. Well, you know, just that that was a very interesting passage because of how different the analysis of this particular class of people is for the Black Liberation Army. And in their

use of Fanon to support their analysis of the revolutionary potential of a class that marks, for example, in the 18th Bremere and in other places, you know, really looked at as potentially very counter-revolutionary because they didn't have revolutionary workers' consciousness and could be appropriated by these kind of right-wing conservative monarchist or, you know, other sorts of populist that it would be very easy to subvert them or, you know, redirect them towards counter-revolutionary means, essentially. That's right, yeah, that they're very susceptible for, you know, for that. And I wonder if part of the reason why it's different in the Black Liberation Army's understanding and the position that they're taking on it, as it might be for Fanon, although I don't know if it's exactly that Fanon is saying that they are kind of a source for,

revolution than he as much as he is saying that they can be transformed. You know, and the part of the index for in that chapter, for example, on violence in Wretched of the earth, part of the index for how political revolutionary mobilizing an activity transforms a colonial population, it's partly, you know, he uses the examples of basically people, you might identify in classic Marxist terms as part of the lump in proletariat. But I think his point there is that the colonized are per force in this very different position than you might say a kind of revolutionary workers movement. Like the conditions don't allow the development of that so easily under colonialism because some of the class politics are deformed by the colonial question.

And so that is very important here that the Black Liberation Army's rejection of proletarian revolution, just as you were saying Z, a very clear position that they take, is results in large part from adopting a colonial perspective on the condition of black people in the United States in, you know, the black diaspora. So that's a very kind of interesting and important point, I think, that helps explain. why they have this rejection of like the classic approach is because for two reasons. One, internally, you have to look at the black population as a colonial population. And in other words, they have to have their own kind of revolution of liberation before you can go on to fully addressing and resolving the class questions. But also because, as you pointed out, their analysis, I'm not sure if I would say it's ahead of its time so much as I would say it's right on

its time. It's right as a part of the conditions of those late 70s economic shifts that are just starting to happen, the weakening of labor in the U.S. as a political force, the neoliberalizing of the economy post, you know, the oil shocks, right, and the economic recession that comes in as a result, inflation and so on, as a result of OPEX organizing, you know, as a cartel of this key commodity for global capitalism, you know, oil. So they are right on their time in deducing that there are some structural changes to this condition and to the moment where, like, there is no proletarian revolution about to happen. And so you have to organize the most radical elements because of the unique characteristics of black people's oppression in the United

States, they are the revolutionary class to start, you know, a true revolution. But I guess what I find interesting, and I would ask you, Z, what you think about this and how this fits in their thought, is they do have some kind of specificity in thinking about black nationalism in a certain way. I mean, they are Marxists. So, you know, they're not going to be seduced by kind of the retrograde, you know, elements of black nationalism. But it seems that they have definitely taken some sense that, yes, you do need to use this context, the idea of land, you know, it's not just going to be broadly, you know, we'll have a revolution that transforms all of society. The goal is specific to the extent that in addition to the black belt region that you were

saying the Republic of Africa, of New Africa, that they also even include some discussion about the possibilities of, you know, forming, you know, the black nation in Namibia, you know, for example, you know, by working, you know, not like Liberia and Sierra Leone did, which introduced, as they rightly say, you know, in history as a new class kind of politics of diasporic returnees kind of being this you know, bourgeois, you know, oppressive class to the indigenous Africans in the west coast of Africa. But this idea that, you know, some kind of revolutionary internationalism and solidarity with those struggling for anti-colonial liberation in Namibia might be possible to create. So they have a specific idea of a black nation that I think is very interesting. And I just

wondered how you saw it within, you know, since you've read so much about, you know, black nationalism and black radical movements in the era of the 1960s and 70s, how you locate that kind of consciousness. Because I find them very subtle and very sophisticated and very precise about those actual historical conditions therein. So I'm wondering if you had any thoughts about that. Um, I think, uh, I think, I think, I think, I think, honestly, I I think black nationalism is probably one of the most controversial discussions we have within the United States. If I were to be humorous, if I were to be a comedian, I would say there was a specter haunting the lady West left. It's the spectator of black nationalism.

The Black Revolution Army definitely had a very, in my opinion, advanced understanding of the Black nation. so to such an extent that like you mentioned they even they even wondered hypothesized what it would look like to return the homeland, what it would look like to do that in such a way that does not infringe on the indigenous populations. The Black Revolution Army also

proffered what it would look like not only to build the black nation within the Black Belt, but what does it look like down to the communal level? What does the black commune look like? What do we need to substantiate, to propagate, to make sure the black commune drives all the way down to, on an individual level, what does it mean to what does it mean to do your part for the collective and the entire chapter revolving around that, black voluntary poverty? In terms of how we identify, I suppose, a black nationalist approach, I think, and I believe they mentioned very briefly, but just from my own conjecture, was really important to understand,

especially in the context right now, because we're coming off the back, coming off the back of a very return to Roots movement, right? We had the Us organization, right, Ron Cringa, we all remember the ramifications of that um and the issues that were that were surrounding that and um with uh uh ron keringa and allies and the proliferation of of of um of things that still are around today like for instance kwanza and you know the commodification of simple of simple cultural nationalism as a part to revolutionary nationalism and uh even more so on the commodification and uh to the point that that that nationalism itself has even been able to

be embedded into the imperial's psychological warfare scheme right but I apologize but the brain all back back in with the Black Revolution Army's perspective on nationalism how we attribute and identify these things is one

the most simplest part is that nationalism or revolutionary character refers to a people and to have people to have people have to refer to the land. To have land, you have to have bread, to

have both of these things in the quote in the back in the text from Shavakas and the Yata, with a black re-gratian army fighter and murdered by a NYPD detective. You can't talk about a people without an army. So power to the people's army.

The main issue that a lot of people have with black nationalism, in my opinion, is the outright sort of militant connotation that they, that they seem to proceed. They, um,

I think I, and for, of course, for the good part for Corinto Pro and state repression, there is a, there is a genuine fear of the militant repercussions of a nationalist movement of any type.

Um, and this is specifically engineered. Um, in contract, what is very interesting to read, um, in terms of the black Liberation Army is that

I would say at least half of their talks about nationalism is specifically geared towards building a nation and what it takes on the individual level again to be able to sustain that nation. What we have to do when we identify these things, if we identify

the language that individuals use. We identify and that's not to say that there's anything more of any kind of form of military of military per se or you don't whole build versus destroy argument, but we have to identify, we have to be with that to cleanly, clearly I analyze and identify a task and a strategy for the building of a nation.

That is one of the things that I think steps apart of the Black Laurician Army itself. The detail they go into when the travel of voluntary poverty regarding how, well, what one needs and what one doesn't need, how we should dress and act in across each other, the kind of systems or infrastructure that we implement to make sure that the nation is able to sustain itself, the black communist itself. And that's how we get back into. I think they do a very good job of relating

this nationalist question to a Marxist line when they speak of the of the economic connotations of what it means to build a nation and making sure that the systems of this nation are put plainly in the hands of the

people that cost to this nation itself. Does that help to answer your question? Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is so interesting, I have to say, I found their analysis so fascinating. And as you portray it, it just reminds me that I did also have another thought about their discussion of the black commune, you know, voluntary poverty, which a very interesting kind of phrase and concept. I mean, it reminds me a little bit of religious orders, you know, describing. like the Franciscans and others that there is a kind of mental, you know, psychological personality formation that they seem to also be articulating as important and necessary as a companion to the materialist analysis, almost as an antidote to the consequences of all of this material oppression in a consumer society that, you know, I found that fascinating. element of, you know, thinking almost, you might say, of a kind of spiritual regrowth in a,

you know, in a new way, right, that fits with the needs of a revolutionary culture and the building, as you're saying, of a nation. I don't know if you thought of, if that strikes you as relevant or meaningful to characterize it that way, but I felt there was something interesting about, that also, again, comes a little bit from, like, Fenno and his, you know, black-skinned white masks and a lot of other work like, you know, you know, WBD boys on, you know, double consciousness that, you know, there is a need for freeing, you know, decolonizing the mind, as it were, and freeing the personality from the constraints of, you know, colonial and consumer capitalist oppression that they care about a lot, it seems. to me. There is a kind of spiritual element here. I mean, it's all rooted in absolute materialist analysis, but there is a kind of, you know, spiritual or psychological, emotional element that they're also very keen on integrating into the picture. And I wonder, you know, how maybe, I wonder if you think that's one of the kinds of sophistication of their analysis that makes it also relevant even for

today to continue to engage with this you know with with with their with their thinking well this this is a cultural revolution and they explicitly mentioned that as well that there have had there must be a cultural revolution to to mend the psychological trauma and and the and the propagandizing that's been uh that the black people that have been um subject to since they first set foot on these lands and there is definitely a spiritual quality to that in terms of the fact

that to go mentioning Fandon decolonizing the mind to go from having to go from being the wretched of the earth to having a understanding to having a understanding of freeing the land or freeing the mind

has a spiritual quality in that you're no longer alienated. The goal is no longer be alienated from the labor you produce and to no longer be alienated from your community, from your culture, from your nation. And all this entails and necessitates a cultural revolution,

a revolutionary cultural revolution or else, you know, we'll end up in the position where we are today where for instance, in my Miami, they're unveiling police cruisers that have Black History Month decals

on them, right? Where we can, where we can go, you know, I think Fred Hampton might have said it best right then and there. You like he said, we're very on their time that, you know, sooner or later we'll have Negro imperialists and, you know,

wait here. You get Colin Powell. Right, you get Colin Powell. Condi Rice Don't know Barack Obama Lloyd Austin The list goes on It goes on yeah

It goes waiting far You know the commander Of Afghanistan The black general You're like no We It One of the

I think one honestly I think one honestly The strongest Verifications Of the black liberation movement itself is the failure to

create a concise strategy towards cultural revolution it's something that we still deal with today you know it's a saying itself between the black community for the culture

to the culture but the culture itself has definitely become in service and embedded itself from the American imperial system right getting there

the Black Revolution Army knew the difference between themselves and reactionary cultural nationalists that they were they pursued

a revolutionary culture, a cultural revolution, not unlike the Great Poetarian Cultural Revolution itself. They understood that to become a nation, they must transform themselves. Every member

of the nation must have a revolutionary transformation that even after a national liberation, the struggle is not done. There's now a struggle of self, right? And to that point, that is definitely without a doubt

in very spiritual endeavor something that takes massive amounts of self-reflection of vulnerability of empathy of collective strategy without a doubt and I think honestly

especially considering that a lot of members of the Black Liberation Army that exist today or veterans that exist today are people that have foregone their colonial identity, you know. Julum Boutakim, right,

former name Anthony Bottom. We had Sadr Chouacore, former name Joanne Chessamar, Kwasia Balagun, former named Donald Wienes. And it's really interesting to see right then and there that

despite the fact that they have taken on a more African identity, the difference between them and individuals, again, like I mentioned, Ron Karenga, who's African identity, I can't even place myself right now, but the difference between them and Ron Korega, the difference between them and any kind of colonial entity that may exist right now, though propagating the neo-colonialism and the imperial transnational value

that they were beginning to talk about right then and there. So you're definitely correct. It is a spiritual endeavor. There is a very strong spiritual quality to it. But regardless of that spiritual quality, they never took up a metaphysical or non-materialist understanding of what it means to build a revolutionary culture. Yeah, terrific. I want to turn us back towards the contents of the book as they are.

just because I want to ensure that we can pitch this work to the listeners. We've already talked a bit about book one or part one. It's listed as book one within here, the Black Liberation Army study guide. We've talked about how that's a very useful primer for people who are just starting to get into these political topics, as well as for understanding the ideology of the Black Liberation Army. And we've talked about some of the things that'll probably be a little bit more contentious, as well as some of the really, you know, biting analysis that they do within this study guide in very, very short and concise form.

It's a very useful part of the book. We've talked about the political dictionary, this glossary of terms. We even, you know, used one to define a term to make sure that everybody is on a level footing as we then discuss it. And, of course, this is also highly useful for readers of the book. But we have a talk, you know, it reminds, sorry, I just wanted to say, but also on the study, guide, there are study questions. Yes, there is study questions. Absolutely fantastic. Like every major section stopped and then there were like six or seven. Yeah. Some questions for discussion,

which shows that this was meant to be a real study guide and that, you know, people were to make it their own analysis by thinking and discussing with their comrades or in their cell. I thought that was absolutely phenomenal, really very interesting pedagogic, you know, this is pedagogy of the oppressed right away. I'm happy that you, yeah, I'm happy that you brought that up, but not. It's something that I hadn't thought to mention, but you're absolutely right that, and the way that these questions are structured as well, super useful. Some of the questions are very, very easy and the answers come directly from the text in terms of like, what does this term mean? And it's a term that was defined in the preceding section.

So, you know, if you read it, you know the answer. It's just like, you know, making a study guide at school. But then also some of these questions that were in here were rather analytically advanced and asking you to, like, analyze these specific questions on your own with the theoretical grounding that the text had given you. But it does not have a given answer provided within the text for you to just be able to, like, crib the answer and move it to that study guide and say, look, I've completed my study guide teacher. Here we are. No, no, no. These are for discussing, for debating, and for really going through

analyzing and understanding within your cell, as you said, Adnan. So I'm really happy that you brought this up, and this is also something that will be really useful for people that pick up the book, because, again, the way that it's set up, you have some questions that are very easy to answer if you read the section, and even some that are very easy to answer if you haven't read the section. And then you have these questions that you'll be grappling with for some time. And of course, you know, the sections lead you to understanding what their line is on an issue. It's not to say that they're just letting you, you know, off into the wild to kind of list around aimlessly without direction. They do give you some direction on these questions, but they're open-ended questions that allow you to have this sort of analysis and debate within yourself without just being able to have an answer on a line of a paper. So I'm really happy that you brought that up. But and the dictionary, it reminds you. me a little bit of the very famous work Raymond Williams keywords. Yes. You know, I mean, so useful. So I just want to use that to endorse. You got to pick this up. I mean, this is a really

great, great work. But that is no, no, totally, totally. So those are the first, yeah, those are the first two parts of the book. We haven't really gotten too deep into the third part of the book. And I do want to allow Z to discuss why these essays, and it's essays of the Black Liberation Army as part three of the book, why these essays are worth picking up and reading, why this is a critical component of this work for people that are reading the book. And especially also, you know, obviously this is going to be very useful to people within the black movement as they call it within this text. but also this is critical for people, you know, people of the white left, like myself, of course, you know, I'm a white Marxist leninist.

This is critical for me to go through and read and understand. So the essays are titled just to pitch it to the listeners, message to the black movement, an open letter to the white left, and then towards the liberation of the black nation, parts one through four, consolidating the most advanced forces in the new African independence movement, development role of peoples war in the new African independence. movement, revolutionary violence and the theory of force in the USA and building strategic alliances and people's war, all very fascinating essays, not particularly long. So, you know, there's something that you can get through pretty quickly. So Z, I'd like to just turn it over to you now with that as a little bit of an introduction to what essays are contained in this book. And without me going into what these essays are saying, you are much more versed in this than I am having just read the book, you know, you're actually collecting and putting it together and

doing the background research associated with this. So Z, why are these essays so critical to this book as an entire unit? And why are these essays critical for the left to engage with in order to understand not only the Black Liberation Army, but also perhaps, you know, deepen their own thought into how to affect change within their given context? Of course, no problem. So in contrast to the Part one is a book of the Black Division of Urban Study Guide, where that study guide was put together as one cohesive unit made to pretty much develop the political understanding of a member of a cell.

Every essay in part three to text is an independent essay that took part that was written at a certain point in time, so we can see the kind of, and it's meant, and they're essays that are also meant to be read externally. They're not internal documents. These are texts meant to be read by people within the Black Liberation Movement, by anyone in the anti-imperialist movement. These are texts are meant to be read by the masses, right? That's the first thing.

Second thing, as I mentioned, is that each of these texts are written at a certain point of time. So we can see the Black Liberation Army's political development, right? Starting with the first two texts matched to the Black Movement and open letter to the White Left. Um, both of these texts, uh, in my opinion, they go hand in hand. Um, they deal really and truly with the shortcomings of their respective, uh, movements up until that point in time, right? Um, they deal with what they believe is, is necessary to move forward in this trouble and what really needs to happen. Um, in terms of, uh, of a message, uh, message of black movement. Um, um, it opened. Um, um, it opens. Um, um, um, it opens. Um, um, um, um, opens up you from the armed front. And that is an analysis from, again, all the U.S.s are anonymous. But it starts out with an analysis of what the buckle that is the above ground at that moment and what the underground needs from the above ground to not only be able to continue itself

before the above ground in the music scene itself as well. Open to the white left. is basically an attempt to hold the white left at that point in time accountable for what they believe are is tailing they believe that the white left at that point

had refused to put forth not only a considerable material aid to the Black Liberation Army itself but also to do their part in further and furthering the struggle to destroy Yankee imperialism. That essay itself

actually and so interesting that the essay is overlooked the white left was actually what was that criticism was critical in pushing members of the weather on the ground to take a more militant stance. It's because of that essay

that members of the Weather Underground ended up forming the May 19th Climate Organization and ended up forming a joint guerrilla task force with other members of the Black Liberation Army and that's how we got the Revolutionary Armed Task Force. And just to hop in for one brief second, the Weather Underground is explicitly praised

within this book. So this is another group that the Weather Underground was primarily a white group. And it's important to note that within this text they were saying you know, there are factions of the white left that we absolutely need to be engaging with, seeking solidarity with, and coordinating with. And that was one of the specific examples that was provided within this book. So I'm glad that you brought that up.

Anyway, I'm sorry for the interruption. Just wanted to draw that out. No, no problem. Of course. That point right there, because I believe up until that point, there's another group that we cover the text of called the George Dax Brigade, but they weren't really, I don't think they're viable to be considered a multiracial unit.

The Revolutionary Armed Task Force that formed out of a result, out of a result of the Weather Underground and the main Native Congress organization you're reading, open to the White Left. The Revolutionary Armed Task Force, I believe, is the most exemplary example of a multiracial guerrilla unit operating within the United States. The Revolutionary Armed Task Force is responsible for the liberation of its other succour. On November 2nd, 1979, they're the unit that attempted the 1981 Brinks robbery in Nyack, New York. They spawned an entire movie about them.

Dead presidents. You've never seen that movie. That movie is actually based on the Revolution Armed Task Force in the 1990s, The Brinkstruck Robbery, attempted robbery. So those two essays, just to start off with, those two. two essays are entirely important, but because, one, we can see the, we can see the material ramifications of speaking directly to not only the massons, but also other forces involved in the political struggle of the United States at that time, that factions evolved, factions

communicated with, took it upon themselves to unite with the black liberation army, and further the struggle materially through direct action. as we move on we have the text for instance Liberation a New African nation organized

for New African people in war this put up Lindney that's my favorite part of the

favorite part of the text my favorite part hands down the text because the idea

of people's war and I believe they do use this term at least once in the text protracted people's war is also

a very contentious issue within the United States many different people have their many different people have many different opinions about it there are endless arguments about it going on

in organizing spaces and online and offline all the time but the term people's war has not been used very often in political work within the so-called United States

at all And the entire essay itself, the first essay starts out as a background with consolidating the most advanced force factors of the movement. That is really a historical account of the Black Liberation movement up until a certain point. The entirety of the text really speaks, though, that essay organized in the African People's War, concerns both the reality in the social aspect of people's war what is people's war how to be accomplished people's war what is people's war entail what is what are the sacrifices that

must be made of people's war the popular aspect of a revolutionary action the effect that has the effect on the social effect that revolutionary violence has is something that we have not really

seen talked about a lot except for maybe text like Blood in My Eye by George Jackson which interestingly enough, George Jackson himself, stated himself

as identifying as a Marxist, then this Maoist, fanning so he was contending with faction that had even quote-of-synthesizing that political trend up at that point. He was already with it. That text itself

it's really important because that text was released at a time when the Black Liberation Army was about to become defunct. So that text, which hasn't been reprinted ever probably since it was released in the late

in the mid-late 70s, is almost a definite eye into the look of what the Black Liberation Army was thinking right at that time as they were about to become defunct. the essay

and the speech given by a former member of the Black Liberation Army and in that speech that former member is speaking on the alliances that has to be made

to continue the the struggle against Yankee imperialism the speech was given by Ahmed Obafemi and it was given in Denver in

I believe 1981 and this is in December so the Brinks operation has already gone that has already gone down, it's already happened

people have already been captured as a result in the next four years the remaining active members of the Black Liberation Army are going to be captured

so that last in the last part of this essay in that speech we are seeing probably the last thoughts of the Black Liberation

Army and for them to be speaking that at the last time They're speaking on building the United Front right then and there. They're speaking on what the Beverly State United Front has to look like. How do we get into tenement? How does it move itself towards people? What are the social aspects of these things?

And I think it's very, I think it's very honest to say that right, right now. I don't think there's ever been a viable, quote, united front within the movement here in the U.S. I don't think there's ever been a United Front, like we could call one, with the CPP, NDA, NDF in the Philippines, or the joint operations room in Palestine, or the act as a resistance in that same reading. I don't think there's ever been a actual anti-impleist government-stained United Front here that is work and salt. And to see that the last, the last thoughts in the mind of the BLA, which is really socially isolated at that point of time, was how to be, how to be now, move this isolation, unite with the most regulatory forces going on in the movement right now and push ourselves forward. And the

people that they chose to unite with were the remnants of the Ameri-Indian movement. They chose to reference the Puerto Rican independence movement. And these are factions that are still working today that are really

important for us to unite with still today. And they even referenced historically how black freedom fighters have united with these forces in the past so in my opinion if you really want if you really want to see

what the last thoughts of the Black Liberation Army were if you want to understand what they thought of building a united front if you want to understand the how to build popular power towards people's war how to defend it how to what the ramifications of it I think

I think that that's that last portion the book is going to interest you so much. It's such, it's, it's really, it's, it's staggering. It's empowering. It puts a lot into perspective for you. It's, it's amazing, amazing. It's exhilarating. It leaves me speechless every time I think about it, honestly. So I got, I have to cast my breath. But, um, again, I don't think many people at the time, they have never contended with that term itself, people's war. So that was probably what was the most interesting thing. for me right then and there. That my portion of the book

is very interesting. I honestly want to know what you both thought of that portion in the book with maybe your favorite essay or what stood out the most of you. Well, I found almost every part of this very fresh and interesting. I mean, of course I'd heard about

the Black Liberation Army, but I'd never actually read any of these documents before and to see the sophistication and not just sophistication because that just makes it so intellectual, but I mean, the power and passion of their analysis. And the urgency, I think, is another key term that we can use. That's right. That's a good term for it, yes, as well.

It's just the urgency. So much of it, I really liked all of it. I do think, though, that as you were pointing out, this kind of late essays and the strategic analysis of the need for alliances in this kind of idea of a protracted people's war was very interesting and what I especially also liked so much about these writings, these essays. I'm thinking here particularly of the essay. Perhaps it's the very last one, actually. I'm looking at it. Part four, building strategic alliances and People's War, National Liberation inside the U.S. imperialist state. And this is what you were

talking about, about Ahmed Obafame's discussion. So this one, what I especially also like about it, is this is like guerrilla history that he does here. I mean, he goes through basically in establishing the basis for solidarity and alliance in people's war goes through basically the historical connections between various oppressed groups and peoples as victims in various different ways and connected ways of the U.S. empire. And I really appreciated the way in which Obafen me brought together an understanding of history to lay the basis for this call for solidarity, alliance, and collective struggle and how these various groups, you know, are connected

in this struggle. I thought that was brilliant. And it's something that we don't think about enough. You know, we talk about questions of solidarity and so on, but these are more from current position, you know, of marginalized or oppressed groups making this pitch. This was a real appeal through the use of history in a profound and effective way, which I really, really like.

Of course, you know, this is perfect. This is perfect guerrilla history, basically. Yeah, and I'll just hop in briefly because Adnan hit most of the points that I was going to say, since my favorite parts were also, Adon said his was part four. I enjoyed part three and part force,

a revolutionary violence and the theory of force in the USA and building strategic alliances and peoples were for much the same reason that Adnan mentioned. And just before I turn it back over to Adnan for the next question, I just want to mention that I'm just also thrilled that we have this opportunity to have these sorts of resources and be able to embark on this new miniseries that we mentioned at the very beginning

and that having the opportunity to see these sorts of documents really are empowering, really are awe-inspiring in many ways. And, you know, the level of analysis, but the urgency of the analysis and, you know, the theory of how to apply this analysis, I think is tremendous, tremendously important. And, yeah, so those were my two favorite things. Z, why don't I just ask you then, what's your favorite part of this book and why? I know that you kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but, you know, if I had to nail you down and say, pick one section of this, why is it your favorite?

I had to choose. I would definitely say part to three. We're going to have to choose the last thing again. certainly because of my own political predilections I was very interesting in the content. I was very interested in the contents of the, of the essay.

If I had to choose specifically which part of the essay, I would also have to say a revolutionary vast they're forced in the U.S. Because I think that the sentiments

laid out in that essay, and it's even from reading that when you read the title of itself, that is also, again, one of the most, intentious issues within the movement. However, simply from a place of purely for

of a peer research, understanding where they were at right then and there at that time because again, this essay is being given, this essay was written right at the end of the BLA's operational life. So this is pretty much like, in my opinion, the way I

I've received it was like right now I'm reading I'm reading the of success and failures I'm reading what they've what conclusions they've come to from understanding being up against the hydra

right the hydro of the of the of the of a US repressive forces if I had to say what do I think is the most useful part of this text is definitely about the study guide definitely about the study guide

and I think the essay criticism and self-criticism is one of the best is one of the best accounts of how to perform those two actions that I've probably ever read. Accountability, criticism and self-criticism,

the interpersonal relationships between comrades is still something that a lot of young people joining the movement deal with. um we have had to deal with a lot of abuses over on in the movement you know it seems like

every other day there um uh you know um some kind of issue or discrepancy or or or exposure right um especially uh necessary for for for for for genuine um uh interpersonal advice that goes on between people that are supposed to supposed to comrades. And I believe that a lot of people or a lot of young people joining the movement lack the tactical analysis necessary to understand what does a critique session look like, what does self-critique look like? Those things are really important and they're really necessary to sustaining, it's a sustaining a movie, knowing how to perform critique and knowing how to perform critique

and knowing how to take it, knowing how to perform self-fritique, knowing how to accept someone's self-fritique. These things are really important, really, really important. I think one last thing that's a note is that in terms of the last text and the last essay, again, in terms of understanding where the Black Revolution Army was at at that point in time, when you read that the last essay, at one point, but if any, he mentions a Freedom Fighter, Sam Brown including the subtext

that later on in life Kawasi Balergruin and other members identified Sam Brown as a rat for the sea right then and there the that this may not have been known

but if any of that time we may not know, we don't know we already know that he can call him a courageous person who laid on his life right there in his struggle and not captured but now that we know after being captured he turned

he turned his back on the struggle to have that context then and there about what his comrades thought after and then the know later on what he did to them puts those things in the perspective

and I think relates to understanding how you deal with harm how you deal with the question of betrayal to your movement on different levels be the interpersonal be the

on a wider operational level. And these things are really important. Yeah. Terrific. Seeing as Adnan and I have roughly the same final question, I guess I'll start and perhaps, as I have a tendency to just lay out a bunch of disparate threads, perhaps Adnan will hop in and tie them together

if he sees fit or if he wants to add something in there. But I want to close this out by asking Uzi, what are the lessons that you've drawn from putting this work together you and your comrades at Rookery Press putting this work together so the lessons not only from the process of putting this together

but also going through these materials internalizing this analyzing this, thinking through these questions that were raised within these collected works of the Black Liberation Army, how this has impacted your analysis of the United States

knowing that you are based in the United States knowing that you are based in the United States, and of course this is where the Black Liberation Army was also based, and also the tactics required going forward. So how are you taking what you've gotten from this process, both the process of collecting and putting together this work, the analytical process that you may have been enriched by through this work, and how does this shape your analysis of the tactics necessary going forward? So a couple of different things there, but all related to how has this impacted you? So, before I can go on to terms of analysis, I really have to, it's not just me, it's all

of them at the work we press, about how, when we were working on this project, how much we started to be linked to the Black Liberation Army, especially their logistical network, as we came to the end, we came to understand the, the, the, the levels it took for them to, to make sure that these lessons were being spread at that time to other members of the South other people who supported the black the black gorillas

at the time of writing this, the study guy, for instance, you know, it wasn't being published by, like, you know, so kind of a big publisher or even like one of the one of the, one of the quote radical publishers in the time, right, who had more infrastructure or resources, maybe even had an

office space. They were printing these they were they were they were taking these handwritten notes out of out of prison camps and they were going to the coffee machines copying them and heading them out to cells and the original documents they're might say some might say there are pages when we doing them backwards there are pages missing there are pages that had highlighting and stuff all over over them there are pages that were that look like they had been torn in other places and other places so to see the grassroots effort

it took for them to get these lessons out in the first place or something that I really that really stuck with us because a lot of us in the in the book we press for instance a lot of us work 80 hours week and whenever we have a second we're like we know we're running

to a coffee store or we're like we're sneaking into any facility in one of our businesses that may have like a coffee machine or printer or something we're sneaking around trying to get this work done um um um none of us are academics even though we consider ourselves students um every single person in the mercury press is someone of a nationally oppressed identity um um 90 percent of the rookie press is uh is trans um so on that grasp

level we really really really identified with um the the painstaking left of the black liberation army took to disseminate these lessons to their lessons in terms of how it impacted our analysis, how you both mentioned earlier, that there were questions in the back of the study guide, we each set, every time we got to a group of questions after we finished transcribing something, we all sat down, we asked them to Marcel and we talked about them. We greatly not only enhanced our ability to conduct study sessions, amongst ourselves, but it greatly enhanced our ability to already understand some of the basic foundational terms or understandings that we already had.

It put in the context, a lot of things that we talked about or thought about, ready together a lot. It reveals certain things that we may have had questions about or we may have not understood at a certain point in time. Like, for instance, I mentioned the coordinating committee. we had ideas about who may who may not have been in the coordinated committee and because of our research

we ended up finding out finding members in the coordinating committee because of our research we ended up finding finding that you know Elders Cleveland was never really involved in the play despite the fact that he's told it as being a leader

because of this we ended up studying and reading so much more about things like value transfer you know we ended up having a whole study session on um on um on um zach copse uh wealth of summation because of this project um it has really grounded and our ability to uh uh oh i hope i didn't i hope i didn't cut out

right there um my headphone died but yeah like i was mentioned it really grounded and furthered our ability to to perform analysis to perform investigation to be really aware of um elements or entity that play in regards to the overall movement here in the so-called United States? Well, Z, I really so much appreciate this discussion. I want to encourage all of our listeners to go check out this book and to tune in. And I'm really honored that this could be the first in a series in thinking about how primary sources, documents, and texts from revolutionary struggle themselves can communicate to us and provide us better analysis in our struggle today. This has been such a fascinating conversation about a truly

wonderful book. Thanks so much for coming on to share it with us and to talk about it. I'm wondering if maybe you can just tell listeners where they can find out more about rookery press and how to pick up the book and just want to thank you so much for coming on to guerrilla history. Of course, I want to thank both you and honor, Henry, for having me. Thank you really so much.

It's been a pleasure, a huge pleasure. I would not have imagined that we could have gone from being a listener to participants. for anyone interested in finding it in a way, isn't it? Yes. I'm definitely looking forward to our friendship in the future. For any listeners who are interested in finding out more about the Rookery Press, our Twitter is at R-O-O-K-E-R-E-R-O-K-E-R-Y press, and Instagram is D-R-R-R-R-R-E-R-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E, and our website is rookerypress. WordPress.com and you can find all of our, the link to all of our

works right in there. Awesome. I would just want to echo a non-sentiment that this was really a pleasure and an honor to be able to speak with you. I know that you said at the beginning, even before we hit record, that you were a longtime listener of the show, which first of all is very touching that, you know, we hear that we're getting out and people are finding use in what we do, but that you are going to be a little bit nervous. going into this conversation as a long-time listener. And I must say, there was nothing to be nervous about you. You are absolutely fabulous.

I learned so much from the conversation with you, not only about this work, but just in general. Like, it was really a pleasurable conversation, and I do really appreciate you coming on, laying out the important points of the collected works of the Black Liberation Army, going through information about the Black Liberation Army, teaching us, teaching our listeners, and also just having your own analysis in here that really is very thought-provoking, very deep and analytical, just tremendous. I really, really did appreciate that. And I do really appreciate the project of Rookery Press, and I similarly am looking

forward to collaborations as we go forward, looking forward to talking with you and your comrades at Rookery Press as we go on from here. So thank you very much, and listeners, I absolutely cannot recommend enough that you pick up the Collected Works, the Black Liberation Army from Rookery Press, when it becomes available. We will have the links to their website and all of that in the show notes. So do keep your eyes peeled. The book will be coming out within a couple of days of the release of this episode. So if it's not available when this episode first comes out, just check back in a few days,

and it probably will be at that point. Adnan, how can the listener spying to you and your other podcast? Well, you can follow me on Twitter at Adnan-A-Husain, H-U-S-A-I-N, and you can give a listen to The M-J-L-L-I-S. We deal with Middle East Islamic World, Muslim Diaspora, topics like that. So if you're interested, that's on all the usual platforms. The M-A-J-L-I-S and Beware. There's another one with a similar name that is radio-free Central Asia and clearly some CIA cut out.

We're the other one. Look for the good one. Look for the Arabic, you know, letter and a calligraphy on our, you know, our logo. That's how you know. That's the one that we're doing. That's from the Muslim Society Global's Perspective Project at Queen's University and on Can I get the name right at Don?

Absolutely. I'm getting quicker thinking through that abbreviation. Okay, great. I highly recommend everybody check out the mudflis as well.

I learn a lot from all of the episodes of it. As for me, listeners, you can find me on Twitter at Huck 1995-N-N-N-N-N-5.

H-U-C-1-995. I'd like to encourage you to also listen to Gorilla Radio, which is our recently launched spin-off show. We just released an episode this week.

It'll be This episode will be coming out later in the week with some of the striking grad workers with the Temple Graduate Student Association in Philadelphia and talking about the retribution and retaliation that the university has been seeking against them. And we have episodes that will be dropping very soon within a couple days of this episode coming out with Palestine Action, the group in the UK who is doing direct action against arms manufacturers and providers that go to Israel, so-called Israel. And, you know, those conversations are going to be great. So do subscribe to guerrilla radio, same spelling as guerrilla in guerrilla history, wherever you get your podcasts. And just from my perspective, you can also check out that the new translation of Domenico

Lassertos Stalin history and critique of a black legend will be coming out very, very shortly from now. We're just in the final editing phase, and then that'll be coming out from Iskra books. So lots of stuff for you to look forward to from Rookery Press, from the Mudge list, from guerrilla history, from guerrilla radio, and that book from Iskra that I'm co-editing with Salvatore Angledi Morrow. So on that note, listeners, with all of these recommendations out of the way, stay safe and solidarity. I'm going to be able to be. Thank you.