Guerrilla History - The Mau Mau Uprising w/ Nicholas Mwangi (AR&D Ep. 3)

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

With this episode of Guerrilla History, we get into our first case study of our series on African Revolutions and Decolonization.  Here, Nicholas Mwangi comes on to discuss the Mau Mau Uprising in Kenya - what led to it, how it unfolded, and its legacies.  Absolutely critical historical case study, you certainly want to hear it, and share with comrades!    Also subscribe to our Substack (free!) to keep up to date with what we are doing.  With so many episodes coming in this series (and beyond), you won't want to miss anything, so get the updates straight to your inbox.  guerrillahistory.substack.com   Nicholas Mwangi is a writer and member of the Ukombozi Library in Kenya.  Additionally, he cohosts the Liberating Minds podcast, which you can also support on their Patreon. Help support the show by signing up to our patreon, where you also will get bonus content: https://www.patreon.com/guerrillahistory 

You don't remember den, Ben, boo? No! The same thing happened in Algeria, in Africa. They didn't have anything but a rank. The French had all these highly mechanized instruments of warfare, but they put some guerrilla action on. Hello, and welcome to guerrilla. History, the podcast that acts as a reconnaissance report of global proletarian history and aims to use

the lessons of history to analyze the present. I'm one of your co-hosts, Henry Hakemacki, joined as usual by my usual co-host, Professor Adnan Hussein, who's a historian and director of the School of Religion at Queen's University in Ontario, Canada. Hello, Adnan. How are you doing today? I'm doing great, Henry. It's wonderful to be with you. Absolutely. Real pleasure seeing you as always. And I'm very excited for today's episode. It is our first case study within the series that listeners are now listening to African Revolutions and Decolonization, which is the series that we have just started and is going to run every other week for the next roughly year and a half. So just to remind the listeners of what this is, every other week

we are putting out another episode within this series. And alternating episodes within that series are going to be case study episodes like this one. And then the other episodes are going to be more supplemental discussions which are going to be either theoretical based or focuses on specific thinkers from the continent or who have written on the continent. We have a lot of things planned. So do stay tuned. As I mentioned, those episodes will be coming out every other Friday interspersed with our non-series episodes that we have been putting out for the last four years or so on the show already. Before I introduce our guest and the topic for today's case study episode. I want to remind

the listeners that you can help support the show and allow us to continue making episodes like this by going to patreon.com forward slash guerrilla history. That's G-U-E-R-R-I-L-L-A history. And you can keep up to date with everything that we're doing by following us on social media. We're on Twitter at Gorilla underscore pod. Again, G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A underscore pod. On Instagram, Gorilla underscore History, again, Gorilla 2-Rs. And we also We also have recently relaunched our Substack, which allows us to get updates to you without having to rely on a social media algorithm. You can subscribe to that for free and get the updates directly to your email inbox. It's GorillaHistory.substack.com.

Now, with that overly long housekeeping out of the way, I can introduce our guest. We have Nicholas Mwangi, who is a member of the Ucumbosi Library in Kenya. Hello, Nicholas. It's nice to have you on the show. How are you today? Hello, Henry and hello, I'm good. Glad to be part of this great episode with the guerrilla history. Thanks. Absolutely. It's a pleasure to have you. And as I mentioned earlier, this is our first case study episode within the series. And the case study that we're going to be looking at is the Maumau Uprising in Kenya. So, as we get into this discussion on the MoMo Uprising of Kenya, a lot of listeners will have heard of this.

I know I have mentioned this on the show periodically, but the momo uprising is one of the very few things from African history that's taught in the American public education system. When I did world history, it was one of the very few things from Africa mentioned, but the portrayal of it was a bit strange in that class. So hopefully this is a very useful tool for people who are going to be hearing about it from this more radical perspective for the first time. To understand the Maumau uprising, we have to go back to the historical background prior to the uprising, and particularly the colonial experience, the British colonial rule of Kenya. So can you take us back to that period of time? Let us know how the colonial period commenced, what the conditions within the country were under colonial administration, and some of the tensions that were rising during that time that eventually will lead us to the uprising. sure and thanks again for having me yes indeed muamau is one of the most glorious chapters in our Kenyan history and in Africa in general and in the global south world revolution is also a very important chapter

you have said there have been different perspective or narratives about it later on I will also touch on that on the different views that have made us understand Maumau and how we understand it. No uprising or revolution comes out of a vacuum. It's always a culmination of a different resistance because of the same conditions. And it's not different prior to the Maumau. Because a revolution that, Maumau was a revolution that rose to confront British colonial control in Kenya. And so to understand

its significance, we'll have to first to set the context by exploring the roots of colonialism in Kenya. Because Kenya was envisioned as a settler colony, just like they were South Africa was in business, Zimbabwe was ambition. So it

means the British had no intention of live in Kenya. From the onset, they had seen this as a common at home. And so why it's not for the Maumau uprising, they will have still stayed for a long time here. But nevertheless, it witnessed one of the most violence form of land alienation, labor exploitation, and racial segregation, as it has happened everywhere, including South Africa. particularly after the British introduced the White Highlands policy in Kenya as they came, which displaced thousands of African people.

And there were different laws that were used and passed to make this possible. There was the Land Acquisition Act of 1894. There was the Crown Land's Ordinance of 2002. There was the Crown Lands Ordinance of 1915 and the Kenya native areas ordinance of 1926. These laws were used to do the land alienation and to push Africans from the highlands and the fertile lands that they were inhabiting

to pave way for their settlers. So Kenya became part of the British East Africa protector in 1895, following a period of European exploration. and the onset of imperial domination, driven by the need for resources and markets to fuel the emerging capitalist economies of the 19th century in Europe. This drive, of course, as we know, was a byproduct of the Industrial Revolution, which created a great demand for raw materials and global markets. Also, the fertile highlands of Kenya attracted the British settlers,

because in large numbers, they were used. used to the settlers were used to shape the colonial agenda in the region. However, the story of colonization in Kenya, that's back even further to 1498. When the Portuguese became the first Europeans to set foot on Kenya's coast, their aim was to dominate the lucrative Indian Ocean trade routes that had connected Africa Asia and the Middle East for centuries. So you'll have the key coastal cities such as Mombasa and

Malindi, which became their focal points for their efforts and area of operation. For instance, we'll have around 1593 when the Portuguese constructed Fort Jesus in Mombasa for those who who come to Kenya and go to the coast.

The Fort Jesus is now a true tourist attraction. But then it was constructed to be a formidable structure designed to protect Portuguese against both local African resistance and their rival European powers, especially the Arab. But despite their technological advantages, especially naval and military power, they had the Portuguese faced continuous resistance from local communities, including from the like of Mijikenda,

Swahili states and the Omani Arabs in the coastal area in Kenya. So their control remained contested all through. And by the late 17th century, a coalition of African and Omani forces successfully expelled the Portuguese from the coast. And so this marked the end of Portuguese dominance in Kenya and paved the way for new colonial interests. So leading to the formal colonization of Kenya, which gained momentum after the infamous Berlin Conference of 1894-95.

Just one very small follow-up here, which is you're talking about all of these colonial interests that are looking into Kenya. So first it was the Portuguese, and of course, then after the Berlin conference, We're going to eventually talk about British colonialism. What were some of the resources that they were particularly focused on in Kenya at this time? So, you know, they weren't just looking at land for land's sake.

They're also looking at the materials that are present there in order to expand their, you know, colonial economic system as well. Yes, sure. Role materials was very key for the Portuguese, especially cotton, was a key material that they were after. And many other that they picked from the coastal area. Yeah. And of course, leading to the formal colonization after the infamous Berlin conference, which I made way for the British colonization or entry in Kenya, or East Africa, as we will know, it was convened by European powers

under the leadership of Otavon Bismarck, the German Chancellor. It institutionalized the Scramble for Africa, the conference partitioned the continent, as we know. Important to note is how it's also disregarded the social, political, and cultural boundaries of African societies. We also know that these divisions were driven by the competitive dynamics of imperialism. So you love Britain, France, Germany, and Portugal among the key players in their reorganization. And apart from French, the other three had presence in East Africa.

So following that conference, the British solidified its claim in East Africa. Uganda was declared British protected in 1894, which allowed Britain to control the source of River Nile and secure its interest in Egypt. and the Suez Canal, of course. So the following year, in 1895, Kenya was declared the British East Africa Protector. Both were integral to Britain's imperial strategy, both Uganda and Kenya. So Uganda, of course, as I mentioned,

of a strategic control over the ninth, while Kenya fertile lands and central location made it to have for settler agriculture and a key transit point for trade routes that link the Indian Ocean and the African interior. It is also important to mention a very significant infrastructure that change everything for the colonization in East Africa. And that is the construction of the Kenya-Uganda railway between 1896 and 1901. You know, you realize while apologists for colonialism, portrayed this railway as a tool for development and for those who go through

school even here in Kenya they always reminded of how it was such an important infrastructure for us and later on I think I'll mention you know some of the so-called benefits of colonialism that always mentioned so this is all this is one of those infrastructures that are mentioned but in reality its primary purpose was to facilitate the extraction and export of resources while reinforcing British control over the region and the Nile. So the railroad connected Kenya's interior to the cost and it enabled the efficient movement of goods and resources. But it also was used along the Nile path too. So the construction of the railway was also a monumental task.

it's important to know because it required immense labor much of which was forced or coerced thousands of laborers primarily from India

were brought to build the railway under harsh conditions and for indigenous Africans the railway accelerated land alienation it didn't slow it accelerated that

process were expropriated for European settlers. So this expropriation displaced African communities from their ancestral lands leading to widespread social and economic disruption. And so millions of vectors became concentrated in the hands of a white minority, while African communities were subjected

to taxation and forced labor to European farms. So between 1884 since the Berlin country, conference, and 1920, Britain sought to consolidate its power in Kenya, but African resistance was also growing at the period. Yeah, so the indigenous communities resisted land alienation. They also resisted forced labor and the destruction of their social system as they knew it, because this was a disruption. And it is this resistance that laid the groundwork for future struggles against colonial oppression that culminated in the Maumau uprising of the 1950s.

For instance, among the forms of resistance was that of the Kikuyu, which is one of the many communities in Kenya, the Nandi, which is another community, the Kambah, which is another community. So the Kikuyu people whose lands were particularly targeted for European settlement, resisted both the alienation of their land and the imposition of taxes.

Taxes were used as a measure to make people agree to force labor. That's how labor was appropriated through the taxes. So meanwhile, the Nandi resistance was led by one hero here called Kuitalal Arab Samoy, and it became one of the most prolonged military campaigns against the British colonial rule. From 1895 to 1905, for at least 11 years, the Nandi fought again as British incursions into their territory, particularly resisting the construction of the railway, from the Kenya-Uganda railway. However, in 1905, after Samoa was killed in the British ambush, the Nandi resistance was quelled. But you can say these are very early resistance from 1895. And the moment of the prison is in 1950s.

So the struggle evolved into a more politically conscious movements. The British imposed oppressive measures like land containment, which they continued. They also introduced the Kipanda system where you are required to have your ID in your neck as you walk to control African labor. So during this period, you'll see this African Association. was formed, another nationalist called Harry Thuku. And this East African Association aimed to organize non-violent protests and petitions against colonial rule. However, the British always responded with violence,

which included banning the East African Association and arresting its leaders. The arrest of Harry Duku, it's important to mention, led to mass protest in the 1920s, during which unarmed demonstrators were shot at by colonial forces, including British settlers. The violence resulted in many deaths,

injuries included a prominent leader woman who was called Budon In Jiru, who mobilized that group to go and demand that Haridou be freed. And this was in 1922. Over 100 people were killed. The massacre was so horrendous that it caught the attention and surprisingly

including Marcus Gave, the leader of the Universal Negro Improvement Association and who condemned the atrocity through a letter. So you can see from the 1930s through the 1950s, the struggle

sharpened. The struggle sharpened led by Radipco trade unions. These unions, particularly the African workers' federation introduced a more introduced a more

militant face which was more organized and this is from the Dirtis and their efforts held to forge an alliance

between workers and peasants who had historically been marginalized in the colonial order. So this solidarity made it harder

for the British colonialists to maintain control to maintain control as the way they were doing because now they were more organized militant disruption and so the African Workers' Federation led a significant strikes all that period with a wave of labour and rest between 1940 and 1946

so among these strikes there are two that stand out there is the 1947 strike led by the African Workers Federation and the general strike of 1950 organized by the East African Trade Union Congress you will know this the East African Trade Union Congress was led by Mark and Singh

an important figure then a communist then and an important figure for the left then and also the contemporary left so the general strike of 1950 was involved over 100,000 workers. This strike greatly tested the colonial economy, and it marked the culmination of years of industrial action

and demonstrated the growing discontent among the Kenyan people with colonial rule. So the strike also brought together workers across industries, gained support from ordinary people, and ultimately became a potent symbol of the synergy between the trade union movement and the struggle for national independence. And so it was the trade union movement that gave the ideological backbone

for the Mau Mau movement because it is the trade union movement that worked with the Kenyan African Union and worked, and within the Kenya African Union, there were two sides. There was the conservative side and the radical side. So the Canadian side worked with a trade union, including Makansing,

Tegu Akibashia, Freg Kubai, these were leaders. They advocated for armed struggle as negotiations and constitutionalism was not leading to the way. So the Mau Mauo or Kenya land and freedom army uprising represented a culmination of previous struggles and resistance that had happened leading to its uprising.

And so it became one of the most significant stage of Kenyan's anti-colonial struggle. But it comes, but there's that long line from the 1890s. Well, that's a fantastic account of the pre-Mao Mao rebellion and revolutionary history. It was surveying the colonial period. That was really excellent and full of all kinds of very interesting points to consider. One that I wanted to ask you a little bit more about is particularly because you talked about how some of these infrastructure, so-called development projects like building the railroad, you know, ended up bringing in a lot of imported labor under very severe and dependent conditions that incubated labor unrest. And because you were mentioning that these two major strikes in the immediate period around, you know, in and around World War II and its immediate aftermath, were very, very,

crucial in incubating a larger, more organized and more radical resistance. I wondered what you would, how you would explain and describe the different factors that are coming together into this major revolt, because it seems to me you have a coalition that emerges between those who are workers, you know, wage laborers on these projects or in other, you know, areas of colonial-sponsored investments and industries. And then you also have the settler colonial context of land dispossession where peasants are being forced, you know, off their land or to become workers, you know, on. others, you know, in land that may have once been theirs or their communities and now they are being forced. And that's a process that maybe is worth talking a little bit more, how taxation, I thought that was a very important point. A lot of people think of taxes as just what's needed

in any, you know, kind of modern society to run the, you know, government. But in this case, this is a colonial government that is imposing itself using, you know, taxation, to fund itself, but also I thought it was a very important point, create conditions of debt where people cannot pay their taxes and then be forced into a kind of debt P&H as wage laborers in agricultural activity. So I just wonder if maybe you can elucidate a little bit more how this coalition that might seem to have had very different kinds of sources. One is a peasantry, you know, facing settler colonial

dispossession and the other is kind of colonial era labor exploitation in industries and how this workers and peasants kind of coalition really actually coalesced. I think that would be a very interesting it's a very interesting story there

actually. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And as you've mentioned, even at this period in the 1940s, the grievances almost remain the same, but the conditions have changed. The players have changed. So taxation was still there. Land disposition was at the heart of that struggle.

So it is still there. It is still there. But then, in the 1940s, after World War II, you have this group that is coming out of World War II, coming back to Kenya. group of Africans, which included, you know, the lead of Memorial Field Marshal, Dadan Kimadi, who was part of those who went for that World War II. And there were given promises of how they would be embraced when they come back. So, of course, this was never honored. And so you find them coming to the towns and the urban centers and becoming, forming the urban poor. And so you love this class of the urban poor because they are discriminated.

There's racial segregation. So they're not able to get jobs to survive. So within the urban center, there are still grievances. So within, they still grievances. Then outside the urban center, you love the peasants who were experiencing serious land disposition. So that was a condition. But within the trade union movement, you have these leaders who have been able to galvanize all these three set of people

around a major issue, an end to racial segregation, an end to land disposition, and an end to the taxation. And these are issues that cut across these three components, because it is the trade union, the pleasant, and the urban poor that become the force behind the Maumahu once it begins. But the trade union had the power to mobilize, had very charismatic leaders who were able to galvanize and mobilize people across the sectors on shared grievances. So thank you so much for that survey of those conditions. Now that we've discussed the background conditions and context, we should probably move to how the uprising began. But before

entering into that, something you said, I thought was a very important point that I wanted to highlight a little bit more, which was the importance of veterans returning from service in World War II under the British colonial army. And we see that as a pattern across Africa. I mean, it is the French, you know, Algerians, the Algerians who return from fighting with the French to free France from, you know, Nazi control that come back and are dissatisfied with the way in which they're still being treated as second-class citizens as objects of racial apartheid and hate. And they end up being among the leaders that start the FLN. And it seems like a very similar kind of process of soldiers being a galvanite after the, after World War II, being a

galvanizing element and a militant element, you know. I mean, they have fought, they have fought for freedom, they have fought against racism, and then they return home, and they're living in what may be just as much as an oppressive colonial, settler, colonial system as, you know, Nazism was to the French, the, you know, the, you know, or towards the British, towards the, you know, the English towards the African. So that's a very interesting pattern that we see as this new phase in revolutionary and decolonizing movements that occurs after World War II, partly because of the important experience that soldiers from colonial territories had serving in Europe. And when returning, they demand their rights. And it, you know, takes the struggle to another level. So actually, you know,

I mean, in 1945 in Algeria, there was a setif, the setif massacre that where there was demonstrations by exactly these returning soldiers and veterans of World War II, they were demanding their rights and there was a huge massacre of them by the French colonial authorities that is one of the events that absolutely transformed, you know, into a revolutionary struggle in response. So maybe we should talk a little bit about what were the specific events and factors that lead to the beginning of the Mau Mau uprising that brought together those forces that you were just speaking about. Yeah, for sure. Thanks. As I had mentioned before on some of the central issues, the Maumau uprising was a response to decades of British

control and occupation. Of course, led by the land grabbing policies that are also pursued by British settlers are in Kenya. So driven by these grievances of peasants, workers, landless squatters, and the urban poor, the systemic disposition and exploitation of land created this widespread condition and resentment, a strong resentment among the Kenyan people, particularly the Kikuyu, who saw the brand of the alienation in a very large scale. But just as capital digs its own grave, as Marx will say, operation definitely generates resistance

in whatever society it found itself. So the harsh colonial conditions, the land expropriation, the forced labor, the taxation, the racial discrimination or segregation, it produced that anger and grievances that fuel the desire for liberation. So years of negotiation and peaceful advocacy, as I had mentioned, primarily led by the Kenyan African Union,

at this stage had proved ineffective. It was too slow, it was not going anywhere. So the colonial administration dismissed or delayed addressing African grievances which further deepened that frustrations for the Kenyan people. So the decision to wage an armed struggle emerged as a necessity after other avenues showed lead to progress. Many avenues were utilized, attempted,

but did not result in any major change for the people. So the Kenya Land and Freedom Army, or the Maumau, galvanized the same people who were disappointed the workers, displeas and the communities to take up arms against the British rule their aim was to reclaim land which was at the heart of this struggle and secure freedom, equality and justice for the Kenyan people

the rebellion became a shift from that passive resistance to direct confrontation with the colonial British. I've also used Maumau and Kenya and Kenya land and freedom army interchidably and you might ask because that has also been a point of debate, Momau and the

KLFA. And it is important to discuss or see the origin of this name. And there are several narratives and myths on this And briefly, I'll just touch on maybe one or two narratives. So, one of the most popular interpretations of the name is that Maumau is an acronym for the Kiswai'i phrase, Mzungu Enda Ulaia, Morfika, Apate, Uhul, which in English is

let the white man go back to Europe so that the African can gain independence. However, surviving members of the movement, including one called Billard Kagia, who is an important figure in post-colonial Kenya and during the trade union movement, said the word, said Maumau words have no meaning and that it disputed the interpretation are certain that it had no specific meaning in Kisuali or any other language. Then you love those that associated with the mountains. And there are scholars that suggest that the name derives from the mountains, bordering the rifti valley, such as the Aberdea and the Mbau forests.

We have freedom fighters found refuge and inspiration for their revolt. That's where they used to stay or that's where they used to watch their war on strategies in those forests. Then you'll have another narrative that the name will have emerged out of an accidental code. There's one book by J.M. Karioki, another politician in post-colonial Kenya. And he wrote his book called MoMAO Detainee, giving his experiences during detention. And he recounts an incident in Naivasha where the town Maumau might have originated during an oath-taking ceremony. And he says that a guard shouted Maumau to signal the approach of the police, enabling the participants to escape. So when the police reported the incidents, they referred to the group as Maumau.

So it became the name for the movement. And even in official colonial documents, the name is only mentioned in 1948, in official colonial documents. Another narrative is that it could also have emerged out of British propaganda. Other historians have argued that the town of Muammau was a colonial invention used by the British to ridicule and illegitimize the movement. So the name evoked stereotypes of African savagery. and was propagated by the colonial press. And as one historian, Mayna Kenyati, has said, the British sought to insults and debase the anti-imperialist resistance

by attaching a disparaging label. And finally, the name Kenya land and freedom army seems to be what most scholars have settled on, that despite the widespread use of Maumau, the freedom fighters identified themselves, as the Kenya land and freedom army, KLFA. So this name reflected their primary objectives, of course, reclaiming stolen lands and achieving independence.

And the KLFA vision was rooted in revolutionary ideals, with trade unions providing the movement agenda, and aligning it with global struggles for liberation. Yeah, that is briefly on the name, but nevertheless, on the uprising, Or maybe before you go into the name, I think it's just valuable to point out, as you were saying, that it's very possible that it's just a colonial construction. And it was in some ways meant to make it seem like just some wild, African, barbaric, violent uprising. Whereas if you give the name, you know, Kenya land and freedom, you know, it's a very political.

program. It's an organized, you know, kind of rational-sounding political movement against colonialism. And they didn't want to kind of acknowledge that there were political grievances, political demands. This was a political movement. They simply wanted to characterize and portray that this is kind of savage, you know, kind of attempts to just kill the whites, you know, sort of thing. So I think you're absolutely right to have looked at some of the ways in which, you know, which the name may have been developed, invented, or portrayed, because that's certainly the way it was promoted. And we, you know, mentioned that at the very beginning. Henry mentioned that it was Well, just to add in on that ad non-operated in his history book in a certain way. Yeah. And just to add in on that specific point, I recall, now, I mean, the reason I always bring up MoMA when we

have these discussions of how things are portrayed in the imperialist course, history, education for, you know, children, which is essentially an indoctrination of colonial and imperialist narratives. I always think of the Mao-mau example because when we were talking about attempts at decolonization on the continent, successful or otherwise, it really is one of the few examples that's given in those books, and it is portrayed in a very specific way. And I can tell you, and I recall this quite vividly for that reason. I mean, I was somewhat conscious of this at the time. But I recall that the name Kenyan Land and Freedom Army never comes up. You know, the phrase land and freedom is never mentioned in that education. It is always just the colonially constructed name. You

never hear the phrase land and freedom. And so what we perhaps can understand from this is that that colonial construction and the narrative surrounding it actually is perpetuated through generations up through, at least when I was in school, which wasn't all that long ago. I mean, I was doing that education 15 years ago, and it was still, you know, portrayed in that specific way. And again, land and freedom, that phrase never comes up in the discussion of Mau Mau. It's still utilizing that same kind of narrative that was being prepared. perpetuated at the time back in

1952. So interesting, nevertheless, just to add on to that. Yes. Nicholas, we interrupted you. You were about to tell us the more important point, which is like, you know, what happened in the in the uprising. So we should argue.

No, for sure, for sure. And now it's important. The interventions are very important. Yeah, because and maybe to Henry's point, reason why is still portrayed the way it is portrayed

and you never hear land and freedom even in Kenya if you study you never hear because the same grievances have not gone away at the heart of this fight was the land question which in Kenya was never resolved at all if you reference

Mau Mau it invokes that question yeah but nevertheless I'll go back I'll go back to my point and say, so I'd mentioned the second trade union, which was the trade union strike of 1950. It was that the strike was so important.

It reflected where the mood was heading towards the fight for independence. Because two years later, in 1952 is when we have the state of emergency. And it is the state of emergency that now the Ma'u'amu movement, emerge strongly. Somehow they are caught off guard. They were still preparing, but the British colonial regime sensing that something is being organized

declared a state of emergency. And so we have Kimathi and his comrades and cadars heading straight to the forest. We're preparing for this war. So I'll say it officially escalated in October 1952.

following the declaration of the state of emergency. This is because initially there was a rise of attacks by Maumo fighters against settlers, colonial installations, and loyalist Africans who were called Home Guards. These were Africans who collaborated with the colonial regime. Because here there was the indirect system that British used. So it embraced some of the Africans

some of the education to enable them to continue the colonial entrenchment. But this marked a shift in the liberation struggle as Maumo transitioned from preparation to active resistance. And if we look at the initial attacks and guerrilla tactics, you love that MoMA fighters operating from the dense forests of Abadaya and Mount Kenya launched targeted assaults on key colonial structures and individuals are collaborating with the British administration. So the initial strikes was due to the urgency

of acquiring weapons, drew raids, and improvising homemade firearms to sustain the armed struggle. So from 1952, they are raiding colonial police station to get weapons. They are also manufacturing their home-made guns and other weapons. And so nevertheless, despite their abrupt shift to arm the conflict, you find that the movement quickly adapted to the demands of guerrilla warfare.

So part of the strategy also included education and mobilization. And you can see during that period their efforts directed. are enlightening and raising the consciousness of many Kenyans in trying to unite them against the British colonial rule. Another thing that is used during this period is the oathing as a traditional pledge of commitment. People are required to take oath in the moment of struggle. It served as a powerful tool to bind individuals to the cost,

to the costs, I mean, and foster collective solidarity. This is because the Maumau leadership aimed to transcend class and ethnic divisions so that they could be able to create a nationalist front that united workers, as they mentioned, peasants, and other patriotic elements are to this war for independence.

And the objectives of the movement remained to defeat colonialism and imperialism to achieve national independence and to reclaim stolen land for the Kenyan people. So the demands are very consistent almost four generations later the demands are very consistent

in this war and they will do political education which they deliver through any available media including print newspaper there's a lot of literature that comes out during this period and which complemented the use of Othin

to instill these objectives to the people. So while the declaration of the state of emergency post significant, the need for greater organizational cohesion with time as they were continued. And Maumo operatives went underground. But the movement structures adapted effectively to a more clandestine security,

operations and so this so this although the state of emergency was intended to crash the rebellion it also heightened the urgency and resolve of the freedom fighters which further solidified their commitment to that cause and so by 1953 you'd find the Mahoma rebellion had advanced into a critical face so necessitating a more centralized and coordinated military command. So while individual guerrilla units

had continued to demonstrate and to demonstrate their resilience and resourcefulness, their scattered operations post challenges in terms of tactical and strategy.

So for unified and effective assistance against the well-equipped British colonial forces, the Mao-Mao leadership moved to establish a structured military framework that could strategize and unify efforts across all efforts across all fronts of their structures and part of the tactical strategy.

So the Mauo Gorilla forces set up new military headquarters deep within the forest of Kenya, which is the Appadeas, and particularly also Mount Kenya forests. And so these bases became the nerve centers for planning and executing. armed operations, which leveraging, of course, the forest natural cover to sustain the guerrilla war. So then in August 1953 of the months. So Nicholas, I want to hop in for just a second. You're mentioning the locations in which they were setting up bases.

That is, of course, very important in terms of the geographical and physical protection that these locations present and also the ability to organize. people kind of free from state surveillance and intervention. But also at the same time, and this is just to try to lead you into this next part of the conversation, the targets in which they were choosing and the way that they chose targets was also very important at this time, because as you mentioned, they are not particularly well equipped. They are only just starting to form their structure, their way of planning at this time. But they are already taking on actions in this very early phase of the uprising, 1952, 53, 54. And the types of targets that

they choose changes over time. And I know that this is what you'll probably be talking about in your next answer. Just again, I'm trying to kind of highlight something that we should definitely talk about. One of the things that always strikes me is the targets early on often were Comprador chieftains, these collaborationists along with the colonial regime who were chiefs of the area. And that is also quite significant to me because, you know, I'm sure you have much more to say on this than I do. It's significant for a few reasons. One is since these individuals are not part of the state themselves in terms of the formal colonial apparatus, they are in my mind, and perhaps you have something that you can share on this, a little bit easier

to target than going directly after the colonial apparatus itself. But also, because these Comprador collaborationist chieftains that were being targeted particularly in the early phases of the uprising still have because of their ties to the community, despite the fact that they're compradors and collaborationists with the colonial entity, they still have those ties with the community and have some legitimacy in the minds of people who perhaps aren't as conscious of the ties between the chieftains and the state. So it's very interesting to think about both in terms of the possibility of executing those operations in the early phases while they're still developing these modes of operating and the planning and the strategies and then also

because this is particularly an important node to strike out against because they do have those linkages with the community that would otherwise legitimize them and allow them to continue operating on behalf of the colonial apparatus. I think that that's a couple of things that might be worth mentioning in this next part of the answer in terms of the way that the operations differ in the early phase versus the later phase. For sure. And this is

an interesting topic because the chief and the home guards who are collaborators were considered traitors. Yes, it might seem they were an easy target. They were also armed and they were also very brutal.

You have to see that the home guards and the chiefs were Some even bring them watch to a level to think that they were almost at the same level with the British and look down upon their fellow countrymen. And you'll see even post-independence after 1963 that the British are able to maneuver and put this class of collaborators, the homeguards and the chief, into power. they become the elite class post-independence. So there's that consistent line of the role they played to assist the British. And so they were considered enemy as any other. And you'll find that Maumau targets will target them,

will target the homeguards because they also had weapons. If they were killed, the weapons were taken. They will also target individual settlers who are living in huge charks of land and also get their weapons. In other instances, they will raid police stations and also even free some of the prisoners. And they also get the weapons. So you'll have these three targets of collaborators, of settlers, and settlers. and colonial infrastructures to sabotage and to get weapons. Yeah, but you have had historians who are saying that there's a need to study the role

of the loyalists. And it's a very contagious question and debate because there are those who think they played an important role and there are those who see them simply as traitors who were used to kill their fellow countrymen.

Yeah. If I could mention now when I said in 1953 when there's a structure being formed what was formed was the Kenya Defence Council and Mau Mauo, which is an important thing to coordinate

the war. There was the headquarters, I've said, in the forest. But the war was not just been fought in the forest. So you love the communication infrastructure created by the

Maumau, especially starting from the urban areas. So the communication will be all over. So it was not just a war fought on the forest. You'll have sympathizers, you'll have cadars who are still outside in towns and the urban areas, collecting intelligence and sending information.

You'll have people coordinating how will food get into the forest and I'll get to that. But I still mention, perhaps just one last thing on the 1953, because we have something called the Muadah conference. It was an important conference deep in the forest. It followed after several months of intense armed warfare. The Maumau Movement convene a landmark historical meeting near the Mwade River, that's why they name Mwade, which is what was known as the Mwadee conference. So it brought together representatives from various fighting units of the Maumau to share experiences, discuss strategies and address the challenges of coordination and

leadership, which was now emerging. So the conference identified also the need for unified structure and to oversee the entire armed struggle and resolved to form the Kenya Defence Council, as I've mentioned. And so this body was tasked with coordinating operations across the different guerrilla units. Also, you'll have them formulating and executing the overall military strategy. they will have also another important role to resolve the tension between centralised command

and local unit autonomy ensuring flexibility while maintaining a unified direction within the movement. Later on, we might discuss the tensions also within the Mauo, the internal tensions within the Mauo movement. It was not a perfect organization as such. So at the more of the conference,

why it is important, It is important. It is here where Field Marshal, Dedan Kimadi, was elected, president of the Kenya defense castle. He was chosen as the lead. Which now with this cemented his position

as the lead of the armed struggle, and the council also reorganized the fighting forces and created at least eight distinct armies and streamline guerrilla operations and enhance the capacity to

engage in sustained conflict. So following the formation of the Council in 1953, the Maumulilashir recognized also the urgency of countering colonial propaganda. And because

this was very big, you can do a study entirely on the British propaganda on Maumau. And that is because it was meant to delegitimize the Maumau rebellion, discredit its

objectives, and to weaken and its supports among the general Kenyan population. So to combat this, the Kenyan Defence Council, under the leadership of field martial leader, Kymadi, assessed the political climate, identified the need for a clear unified statement of the movement that's outlawing the demands and goals. So this led to the publication of the Kimadi Charter,

a manifesto that articulated the vision, grievances and aspiration of the Maumau movement and the Kenyan people. So the Kimmadi Charter was prepared his leadership and was a bold rejection of colonialism as it outlined the demands and principles driving the Maumau Rebellion and serving as a rallying call for freedom fighters and their supporters. So it had many demands, it had many principles, but among the key will be opposition.

to foreign imposed laws and just imprisonment and the criminalization of the MoMAO. Of course, they condemned of poison dropping campaigns and other brutal colonial tactics against African civilians. Of course, you'll have them rejected the label that they are a terrorist movement and insisting on Bill recognized as freedom fighters demanding legitimate rights. So that is the Kimadi Charter, which was a key. Then you love, by 1954, you love the Muamu armed resistance, reaching a critical juncture.

So here you have the movement that has gained considerable ground against the British colonial forces. It faces internal challenges and structural inefficiencies at times. So the Kenya Defense Council, which had been instrumental and coordinated military and political strategies, was found to be unwidely because of its size and democratic structure. So though reflective of movement ideals, it was said it hindered decision-making and operational efficiency during wartime. So in February 1954, another major meeting. was convened to address these issues, attended by at least 800 delegates of the MoMAO.

It marked a turning point for them because the outcome of the meeting was the replacement of the Kenya Defense Castle with a new governing body, which was called the Kenyan Parliament. So the establishment of the Kenyan Parliament was profound because, and it also a very symbolic step in the Maumau Rebellion, it represented the first legitimate African government of Kenya,

asserting the movement vision for self-governance and independence. So it is this parliament formation that also came up with several objectives. And one was to say was that while the armed struggle remains central, political leadership will be prioritized to emphasize the national and inclusive nature of the freedom movement. The other part will be ensuring all Kenyan communities had a voice in the decision-making process to strengthen the unity and the national charter of the rebellion.

So the parliament assumed authority over areas under our more control, implementing governance structures to serve its people. So it is also here that Kimadi, it was also during this meeting that Dadan Kimadu was elected the first prime minister of the Kenya Parliament. So this is still in 54.

And Kimadi leadership reflected his ability to unify the political and military wings of the struggle while inspiring both the fighters in the forest and civilians and supporters in the streets and urban towns. So under his leadership, the Kenya Parliament was able to formulate strategic offensive plans asserted legitimacy

because as a governing body it symbolized it symbolized the rejection of colonial rule and the establishment of an African-led government in Kenya. So you'll have people saying, Diedan Kimadhi was the first Kenyan Prime Minister. Of course, it will be contested because this is not a 1960, Yeah, but yeah, it happened.

They did symbolize such. And so the events of 1954 were key to come, the final, well, just a moment, the final events of 1954 in Kenya were held out of the events to come in other colonies. Because the final independence from colonialism as a result, as we know, it was out of fierce struggles. in the entire Africa

there are key battles in the Mamor struggle and Henry you had asked why they targeted the chiefs and the other battles that they also launched

there were numerous battles that they launched and won but I can only I can give two examples some which were also captured by a historian Maynoa Kinati and

this He says there's a battle of Naivasha. Naivasha is a party in Kenya on March 2nd, 1953. And the Battle of Naivasha was a critical confrontation in the early stages of the MoMAO. And on this day, the Maumau Patriotic Army, led by General Mbariak and Hew, launched a bold, well-coordinated attack on the Naivasha police base.

and which is a symbol of British authority and repression. And interesting, they were able to capture weapons and ammunition. They were able to kill or capture during the attack many of the soldiers in that post. And it is said that this was one of those wars, this was one of those battles that boosted their morale to continue with the war. The defeat left the British colonial administration shaken, forcing them to reassess the strategies and intensify their counter-insurgency efforts. The other battle, of course, is the Battle of Lukaena, which is September 17, 1954.

So I considered another landmark victory where Mamoa executed a daring operation to liberate imprisoned freedom fighters, and which also led to the liberation of those prisoners. They were able to be released. Weapons were also seized. They were able to put like a demoralization of spirits against the British while the forces and the Maumok had as became, their moral got boosted. So the victory of Lucania was a powerful symbol of the MoMAO commitment

to fight for liberation and justice. So those two battles are some of the battles, but there were numerous, numerous, of course. Well, I guess one of the things that I think might be interesting at this point is talking about the various tensions that were involved. This is something that you hinted at earlier, and this might be as good a point as any, because of course, within any or within any grouping of people, there is always going to be tension, but the tensions within Maumau, they began to evolve over time as well.

I mean, there's always tensions present, but they do evolve over time and begin to play roles as the uprising goes on. So maybe you can talk now a little bit about the tensions that were present and how those tensions developed over time during the course of the uprising and what the implications of those tensions were. Right. There were tensions, especially between Phil Marshall, Jed and Kimmerz, but also another general called General Madengi.

You love that General Madengi was considered a bit older than Kimmerthi, but also another general Kimathi and at first he was the one leading the forces in the forest he had his own battalion it is said there was always tension between the two leaders it would they had to do that they had a conference an elective conference where cadiz of the momo had to select who was going to be their leader kimathi was selected part of the part of the part of the thing that they say about General Matengen, I don't know if it's propaganda or anything, they would say, they compared the level of education between the two, between the two, you know, they were comparing the level of education between the two and they would say, you know, the Dankeemadhi

was a primary school teacher before he went to the World War II, but he was also a mobilizer, he was also very charismatic, he was also writing letters, communicating to other battalion, So out of this conference, he was elected to be the field marshal to lead the movement. So General Madhengue left with his own battalion. To date, nobody knows what happened to General Maldengue. It is said that he might have went to Ethiopia because he had his own followers within the Morvau. Some say that he might have been killed on his way to Ethiopia. Some say he might have been captured.

but he's one of those leaders that people don't know his fate, what happened to him. But that was part of that tension that weakened the Maumau into two. And so you love such tension, but that's an example, especially at the top level for Phil Marshall. Excuse me and the leader, yes. Yeah, that's helpful to know. there are many, you know, in any complex revolutionary movement, there are going to be all kinds of different perspectives, outlooks, personal tensions. And of course, those are often exploited. And, you know, the colonial powers are looking to find ways that they can weaken, you know,

the opposition. And so, in fact, that actually makes me want to return and talk a little bit about the British colonial response in Kenya to counterinsurgency and the brutality of that, you know, response, of the British response during the state of emergency and so on. And I think there's been a lot of contestation over this historically, whereas in British historiography, in modern Western historiography, as we've already alluded, There was a portrayal of the Kenya Land and Freedom Army as, you know, brutal and this, you know, kind of savage, violent uprising and so on.

But in fact, actually, that just occludes the systematic, widespread and dramatically far more intense obvious violence by the colonial authorities in the course of the counterinsurgency to suppress. Kenyan national independence. And, you know, there's been more recent historiography that probably goes back to things Kenyans always said about how terrible and brutal the British colonial forces were. So the interrogations and the torture, the concentration camps, and the many civilians who were rounded up and killed in various ways. So I'm wondering if maybe you can talk about, you know, what happened, what the British colonial authorities did in their counterinsurgency and the various forms of oppression that they used to suppress the political aspirations of Kenyan people for exactly that, land and freedom.

Sure, and perhaps to start with your last point on the propaganda. You know, propaganda and psychological warfare was a strategy that was good. launched by the British against the Maumau was a response to the uprising. So we'll have the British carrying out misinformation campaigns where they portrayed the MoMAO as savage terrorists rather than freedom fighters. Of course, to make them look as people with no agenda, probably a bunch of of confused animals. Of course, Maumau image of dreadlocks didn't help in this case, because that was very symbolic.

They all had long dreadlocks. Of course, media will also be used in this propaganda. You'll have another aspect of them attempting to paint their uprising as a tribal conflict rather than a national liberation movement. so distorting the movement's agendas, agendas, and objectives, and creating this false narrative for both local and international audiences on what was happening here. Some of the propaganda that was used by one, I think his name is Confield, he developed this propaganda that

Maumau was like a disease and he says he studied the psychology the Mauan. This was like a disease. But yeah, to that they also had a very launched a large-scale military

campaign to suppress that uprising. They built up military hardware where they had a massed weapons and mobilized troops and also employed or used aerial bombardments where a rare tactic encounter in Sanjancy at the time and dropped very heavy bombs. You love the concentration and detention camps as you've mentioned. The colonial government established a very vast network

of detention camps, countrywide, where thousands of more Mao supporters were held. They were tortured by every kind of method and forced also into hard labor there was mass detentions and torture thousands of Kenyans were detaining human conditions physical abuse

was done to them and psychological torture was very rampant you know it is this the proving of this torture and the methods that made them or more veterans who won't win their case in 2011 and 2012 and they were compensated.

I don't know how much, but they were compensated and physical abuse and torture were proven to be something that there was evidence for that. And you can look at books also like the history of the hand or the British

Gulag. Two books that concentrate very well on the concentration and detention camps and the torture that was used. You'll also have divide and rule tactics as a response to weaken the movement. Formating tribal rivalries, the colonial regime encouraged animosity among different ethnic groups, particularly targeting the Kikuyu

Enbo and Meru communities, who are the center of that resistance. They will also form loyalist alliances. The British armed and empire that loyal African collaborators, including whom I've named the Home Guards, to fight against the Maumau. So this created divisions that persisted long after independence, as I mentioned, because you have a bunch of Africans fighting each other, one working for the colonial British, and the other one fighting for freedom. So it created a very deep animosity.

And so you'll have also that to contain this Kenya African Union was also banned which was the political arm of the nationalist movement it was silence

and so leaving no other legal platform for African presentation at that point you'll also have because one of the things in the war of independence that was also done

was the establishment of independent schools independent African schools that were able to restore dignity to Africans in their culture, in their origin, because British colonialism had considered everything bad that was African, including culture. So you love schools that were closed. The associates that say that over 6,000 students were deprived of education during this time. As independent schools, a symbol of African self-reliance were shut down. So you'll also see an increased loss of basic freedoms.

Basic rights like freedom of speech, assembly, and movement were eradicated under the emergency laws. So it continued to get worse. You'll also see extrajudicial killings that were happening. The British forces killed suspected among more members without trial. often targeting entire villages as a shore force. You love methods like a Scotch Art Policy of burning entire lands and animals to demoralize anyone participating in that war.

You love Operation Anvil, for instance, a notorious campaign that was targeting Nairobi and resulted in mass arrests and detention in the name of cleansing the city of suspected Maumau sympathizers. So you could be detained or killed

for sympathizing with the Maum. So, yes, those were the many methods were used to demoralize and were the response to that uprising,

which was a high level of savage. Well, in the high level of savagery, for many reasons, one of which is just the sheer number of forces that the British brought in to try to put down this uprising. So by most estimates, there was over 55,000 soldiers that the British brought in at once, including the King's African Rifles, as well as these homeguards of which you describe in terms of local collaborators. And just another thing that is going to come up, it's come up previously. We had an episode, a couple of episodes, episodes on apartheid and the Boer Wars and South African history, the British had been pioneering these scorched earth policies during the repression against uprisings and during colonial wars for decades at that point. So in the Second Boer War, for example, the British went through South Africa and just scorched to the farmlands and sequestered people within concentration camps, basically utilized.

this total war scorched earth policy that really hadn't been utilized very frequently before in history, but it became a hallmark of colonial treatment of colonized peoples during these colonial struggles. And as you pointed out, this is something that they carry out in Kenya as well. And also, I just wanted to make one other quick note on, you mentioned that they were discussing MoMo as a disease. This is another thing that we see quite frequently within colonial Relationships and enduring colonial conflicts is this dehumanizing usage of dehumanizing conceptual metaphors where groups of people or organizations are referred to as diseases or a pestilence or a cancer or a plague or as animals. Cockroaches are a very common example and the necessity to stamp out the disease or the animal vector of disease. and that's why cockroaches and termites are quite frequently used as these dehumanizing metaphors.

This is something that comes up time and time again across history. And the British, again, when dealing with their colonial subjects, quite frequently would utilize these metaphors. But turning towards how Maumau was eventually put down, like we said, there was many soldiers that were brought in. there was very repressive tactics that were utilized within communities in terms of trying to put people away from joining Maumau and joining the cause and supporting the cause of Maumau. But there was also, of course, as you mentioned, these extrajudicial kidnappings and killings, and many of the leaders within Maumau were assassinated or kidnapped and killed, executed in various ways. And over time, of course, that has a very significant impact on how the

uprising eventually comes to a close. So perhaps you can talk a little bit about how those tactics were effective for the British and eventually bringing the uprising towards that conclusion. Yes, eventually the tactics made it possible to quell the resistance at around 1956, with the capturing and imprisonment and killing of Field Marshal, Dead and Kimadi. So if you look at the circumstances at which Dedan Kimadi was arrested, he said he was because he came out of the de-forest, was coming to the villages, looking for food. So one homeguard spotted him and shot him, and he was shot and arrested.

So you can see the methods, he was short and arrested by fellow African homeguards. So the tactic can divide a method had worked in that aspect. The scotch had policy that had raising down land, food, animals made it difficult to access food from the forest. They dehumanizing, the killings. of more sympathizers, because it is more sympathizers who are able to give intelligence, communication, but also provide logistical support, food, and everything. This heavy response, humanizing process, of course, quelled that and was able to demoralize a larger part of the population, especially those that were not in.

the forest. And so you can see a disconnection imagine up to 1956 when Kimadi is arrested and to his eventual killing where he was hung. So yeah, the brutal

methods to allow X and worked but not without a fight not without a fight and I believe in their objectives.

Well, and when you say it worked, obviously, maybe there might have been techniques of such brutality and force used that it was possible to suppress open, organized uprising and rebellion, but of course the very tactics that they used with these, you know, the so-called pipeline, this Gulag system of detention camps, the villageization program of resettle, you know, resettling people, which is just another way of dispossessing them, but using security, you know, rationale to dispossess people of their land and force them into concentration camps and all the things that you mentioned about the brutality, the torture, the psychological warfare, you know, all of these things, of course, created conditions where larger and larger parts of the population were being brutalized by colonial occupation and, of course, turning into people who would resist it or who would be opposed it. And, you know, maybe one could say, and I think a lot of British historians and military historians like to say, oh, the rebellion

was defeated in 1956. But, you know, the reality is that Kenyans won at least political independence. I mean, we can talk about all the limitations and all the consequences of what a post-colonial African nation has had to endure in terms of neocolonialism and whether they really become fully independent, but the point is politically, the British had to abandon their attempts to control Kenya. So that's maybe something we should talk about the endings of the revolt,

but you might say the birth of the political process by which Kenya becomes an independent country is one of the legacies of the so-called Mao Mao uprising. For sure. Because even though it quelled around

1956. It was very clear that the British at that point had made their mind that it was not going to be possible to stay in Kenya permanently as they had envisioned it as a settler colony. So it is this war, it is this

MoMAO prizing that defeated that notion. They could stay forever in Kenya, but also this notion that they were invisible even in terms of military prowess and weapons. So it did a lot in that regard,

and it set maybe a smooth path now for serious negotiation for independence. So without that uprising, that does not become possible. Yeah, maybe it's worth talking about the aftermath and legacy now I mean we've talked about one which is of course Kenyan independence

I mean but we might talk a little bit more about how this has shaped you know what the legacies have been for shaping society and politics of Kenya in the post-colonial independence post-independence period

you're sure I can go into that but I wanted just to mention something then I can venture into that and, you know, part of the achievement of not only debunking that notion of invisibility within the British colonial superiority, you see a very active participation also of women in the Mau Mau Maui.

Why it is important to mention is because it's also a topic that is also relegated and always not given the significance it deserves. and I had mentioned early on the role played by women when I gave the example of Mudoni Njiru. Earlier, I also mentioned Mecca Tili. I also mentioned Morah in the early resistance of the 1900s in the first past when I started. But equally important is their contribution to Maumau too

because they were actively engaged in diverse capacity from direct participation in armed struggle to providing logistical support and sustaining families in the absence of men detained or fighting in the forest and sometimes despite that significant role you'll see sometimes historians and are presenting them

or sometimes they're overshadowed by mainstream historical narrative so you can have women like Phil Marshall Mudoni and Womoo Gakur were combatants and leaders in attack. Field Marshall Mudoni attained the same status as Field Marshal Dead and Kimadi because they were fighting in the forest. They served as fighters, strategies and trainers also. Often working alongside men in combat,

in zones and in the forest, but also men, women were detained and tortured for their involvement. in that war, even in detention camps, women continue the acts of defiance, such as barring fallen comrades with honor, despite severe punishment. And most women were also hanged in prison, the same way Kimali was hanged. So you'll have also part of maybe key achievement that Maumau had and a legacy was that apart from shattering the me

of colonial disability and being the catalyst for independence, it was able to raise an articulate a revolutionary ideology that was rooted in anti-colonialism, anti-imperialism, and even anti-capitalism

as the independence neared. That was key. Yeah, part of of that success is also that there are also limited

strategic success. I mentioned why the methods were successful but going into the independence we realized that the movement also led to significant loss of life and suffering including the

massacres of Mao fighters and civilians because they are Reports that suggest that over 11,000 Maumo fighters were killed, and tens of thousands were detained in concentration camps and under horrific conditions. If you look at post-independence, many Ma'amu veterans were marginalized politically and economically. So the Kenya elite, and I had mentioned how the homeguards were used and created by the British to be the Kenyan elite after 1960. took power and distanced themselves from the movement and its radical agenda, aligning instead with colonial structures and capitalist interests.

So you love, instead of resolving the land question, which was at the heart of what the Maumau War was all about, you love them accepting a policy crafted by the British policy called willing, by a willing seller. So it was considered whoever has money to buy, land, whoever is willing to sell land to sell. But where is the man coming from? If you're just coming from the forest, you've been six, seven years in the forest

fighting for a land that was dispossessed from you, and you're supposed to purchase it. So that didn't happen. So the co-grievances, that land redistribution, remain an address after independence. So much of the land was retained by sepillar families or transfer to the imagine African elite and living many freedom fighters landless. And that has that feality has been with us up to now with a very large number of quarters. Just to add in, that's actually related to one of the points that I wanted to make in terms of failings in the aftermath of Maumau, which is that Kenyatta led essentially a policy of

forgive and forget after the Maumu uprising had ended. and then independence was achieved. Once independence was achieved, essentially it was okay, well, you know, let bygones be bygones and we're going to forge ahead. But essentially what that does is it locks in some of those inequitable relationships that weren't overturned in the aftermath of independence itself. But additionally, it also leads to a lack of recognition and a lack of compensation in many ways for the fighters of the mama, the people. who suffered over the course of years during this uprising and then in the aftermath of independence didn't reap the rewards of the independence that their suffering, their toiling,

their struggle had in many ways laid the groundwork for. They were not the ones who reaped the benefit. And this policy of forgive and forget that Kenyatta instituted after independence and carried on all the way through, it, yeah, not only, locks in those inequitable relationships, but it leads to a complete lack of recognition and any sort of benefit for those who did struggle in the movement. For sure, for sure. And even on your last point, even recognition, you know, you note that during the colonial rule, MoMA was branded as a terrorist organization.

This narrative persisted even in post-independence Kenya, where the government of Rujo Kanyatta sidelined the movement contribution to independence. The tag terrorist organization was only removed in 2003. So from 1963, all subsequent governments, subsequent African governments refer to more more as a terrorist organization. So it was only in 2003 when that tag was removed. And yes, independence didn't result in significant. changes in the economic structures of exploitation.

The new African ruling class and the elite perpetuated just similar systems of oppression and inequality betraying those revolutionary ideals of the MoMAO. He had even Jomo Kenyatta writing a book suffering without bitterness to your point. Then you'll have in 19, between 1961 and 1965, you'll know that the last generals of MoMA were killed by the Kenyatta government because, and two in particular who are very popular is General Baimungi. General Baimungi came out of the forest, met Kenyata, and I had those negotiations and when he realized the land question was not going to be resolved, he went back to the forest. It is the first African government that went to the forest to get the general

and his battalion and killed them. So, yeah, those are some of the disappointment And some of the things that feel like it was a failure for that struggle that people paid a high price for it. No, nevertheless, we all recognize that without Maumu, there's no independence. And those things that we are fighting for are still there. They are fighting for justice. They were fighting for freedom. They are fighting for land. That has not be resolved to debt here in Kenya.

You'll see that recently like last year we had a wave of protests for like two months. You can tell these grievances which are economical stem from unresolved issues from a post-independent government. And so they keep coming, they keep coming because people will always fight to live a dignified life in whatever circumstances that they find themselves. we should have been living in a better situation now as our forefathers fought for that but that struggle was hijacked and betrayed but that struggle does not end because it's only the British colonial face that changed

but the power that B remain the same and the majority of people remain in the same poor conditions they were in the fight during independence and post-independence. That continues as part of that struggle. It will keep emerging and imagine every time. I think that those are very powerful words to end the conversation with. Nicholas, you've been very generous with your time,

and it was really a terrific conversation. You really laid out that history for us, the implications of that history, and this is very much what we're hoping for with our subsequent case studies as well. You really set the bar high, for this series and the case studies within this series. So well done to you, comrade. And I hope that our listeners similarly found this episode useful and will engage with your work in the future as

well. So on that note, can you tell the listeners where they can find more of your work? I know you mentioned off the recording before we started that you also have a podcast, that you are going to be getting a bit more active. And by the time this episode comes out, it might be a bit more active. But let the listeners know where they can find you and more of your work. Now, for sure. I co-host a podcast called Liberating Minds, available on all platforms. The platform focus on book reviews, interview with intellectuals, interview with activists, a lot also on Kenyan history. So we can always reach out there. I can also always check out the books released by Vita Books, also released by Vita Books, also released by

organic intellectual network, some of which have participated in editing and contributing. Yes. Thank you. Absolutely. And we will be sure to have all of those linked in the show notes. So listeners to check out all of those, be sure to check the show notes and follow Nicholas's suggestions on where to get more. Adnan, how can the listeners find you and your other podcasts that, you know, is kind of morphing shape? Yes, well, you can follow me on Twitter at Adnan-A-Husain, H-U-S-A-I-N, and you can subscribe and find the new podcast that is no longer just the Mudgellis, but it's just, you know, Adnan H-N-Husain. It'll be on YouTube and on all the usual platforms. By the time this episode is out, there should be an established channel with some content on it, so I encourage you to look. for it on YouTube. Follow me on Twitter to hear about more, you know, episodes and updates, where to find things. And, of course, you can also go to my website adnanhussein.org,

and everything will be listed there. Yeah. I just want to thank, again, Nicholas, for a wonderful account of the Mao Mao and being patient to give us a very fulsome account of its history. and I do encourage listeners, you know, those last words about the unresolved legacies of the struggle. There's been a lot that's been happening recently in Kenya. I encourage all of our listeners to follow Nicholas, some of those organizations that he's been, you know, that he's mentioned that he's a part of to learn more about not only Kenyan history, but also ways in which we can be in solidarity with the struggle. for land and freedom that continues on in Kenya. So thank you, Nicholas, so much. Absolutely.

As for me, listeners, you can find me on Twitter at Huck 1995, H-U-C-K-1-995. Reminder that you can help support the show and allow us to continue making episodes like this by going to patreon.com forward slash guerrilla history. That's G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A history. And keep up to date with everything that Adnan and I are doing individually and collectively by subscribing to the show on social media. We're on Twitter at Gorilla underscore Pod, G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A-U-R-L-A underscore pod.

On Instagram, Gorilla underscore History, again, two R's in Guerrilla. And also, like I said, we've recently relaunched and gotten access to our substack where we're able to get you news and updates and announcements of upcoming things as well as recent episodes. You can find that at GorillaHistory. dot substack.com. It's free and it'll get notices directly to your email inbox. So on that note, listeners, and until next time, solidarity. I'm going to be able to be.