Guerrilla History - [Urgent] Targeted by the State - Comrade Booker Omole from the Communist Party of Kenya On State Repression and His Personal Ordeal

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

In this critically important episode, we bring back our friend Comrade Booker from the Communist Party of Kenya to discuss the breaking news of his arrest and charges against him by the Kenyan governing apparatus.  In addition to discussing his personal case, he analyses and describes the wider repressive nature of the Kenyan government, and how the Communist Party of Kenya is operating in the environment of mass public discontent.  A fascinating, timely, and important conversation! Also, be sure to listen to the other episodes we have with Booker - History and Class Analysis of Kenyan Elections Dispatch, and Building the Communist Party of Kenya. Booker Omole is the National Vice Chairperson and National Organizing Secretary of the Communist Party of Kenya.  He can be found on Twitter @BookerBiro. Support the Communist Party of Kenya! You can follow them on Twitter @CommunistsKe, on Facebook, YouTube, or on Instagram.  You can also check out their website at https://www.communistpartyofkenya.org/. Help support the show by signing up to our patreon, where you also will get bonus content: https://www.patreon.com/guerrillahistory 

You don't remember den, Ben, boo? The same thing happened in Algeria, in Africa. They didn't have anything but a rank. The French had all these highly mechanized instruments of warfare, but they put some guerrilla action on. Hello, and welcome to Gorilla Hills. history, the podcast that acts as a reconnaissance report of global proletarian history and aims to use the lessons of history to analyze the present. I'm one of your co-hosts, Henry Huckermanke,

joined as usual by my co-host, Professor Adnan Hussein, historian and director of the School of Religion at Queen's University in Ontario, Canada. Hello, Adnan. How are you doing today? I'm doing well, Henry. It's a pleasure to be with you. That's always nice to see you as well. We have a returning guest, multiple-time returning guests, actually coming on the show. show, although not under the happiest of circumstances, but briefly, before we get to introducing our guests, I would like to remind the listeners that they can help support the show and allow us to continue making episodes like this by going to patreon.com forward slash gorilla history, that's G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A history.

And you can keep up to date with everything that Adnan and I are doing individually, as well as what the show is doing collectively by going to Twitter and following us at Gorilla underscore pod. That's G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A underscore pod. So we are joined by a multi-time returning guests and a longtime friend of ours, both personally as well as a friend of the show. Booker Amole, who, of course, listeners will be familiar with is the National Vice Chairman and National Organizing Secretary of the Communist Party of Kenya. Hello, Comrade Booker. It's nice to see you again.

Thanks, Henry and Adman. It's a pleasure. and the guerrilla history podcast is one of the most useful resources that help us to actually interconnect the struggles from the global south and global north, and we would like to share our perspectives from the global south, and of course those of you like Adnan, who are in the Imperial Corps, also be able to learn your perspectives. So thank you very much for inviting me at least what it's out time. Yeah, at least the third time.

I know we've also had other comrades from the CPK on the show before, and you also had a small cameo in the goodbye to Brett episode. So listeners should be very familiar with your voice by this point. Like I said, Comrade Booker has been a friend of the show as well as personally for a couple of years at this point. Unfortunately, we're not joined under the happiest of circumstances right now, and I'm just going to give you the floor very briefly, at first, Booker, because we're going to dive much deeper into the situation.

Can you tell the listeners what has happened in the last week with you in particular? Yeah, first important, first, it's important for the listeners to understand that the reaction of the Kenyan state to the social explosion, what we call the social explosion that happened in the streets, at least for the first time. 10 million Kenyans, over 10 million Kenyans to be specific, went to the street to show their dissatisfaction with this government, this new colonial government, the government that acts as a caretaker committee for the U.S. imperialism. This is important. But the people went to the street, but then the government decided to target anyone who they thought was leading the protest.

And that is why I was a victim in the last 14 days of police harassment and trying particularly to look at any reason why they should prosecute me. And it started off by two weeks ago, they impounded my car. That's what actually happened. So for me, I think it's a normal occurrence that Maybe they were suspecting that my car have probably been used for criminal purposes because my car was being used by another comrade just to distribute water in the streets. But apparently, once the car was such and there was no incriminating things in the car,

still the Kenya police decided to retain the car, to impound the car, essentially to arrest the car. And then I had to go to a legal system, like go to court to make sure I can secure orders to have my car released. But the Kenyan authorities, led by Frederick William Samoer, which was not happy that I was not willing to negotiate with the police to have my car released based on what was happening in the streets. Because preferably they wanted any person that seems to be leading this point. processes, to be able to sit down with them, to be able to bring some temporary peace. So when I rejected this call for talks with President William Samoer, the next stage will have been even worse, because the tracking of, several, the police went to my place of residents, my place of work, and clearly with an intention to intimidate.

but of course they know I'm a revolutionary so there are things for me we got into this process consciously knowing that it was not going to be easy and such opportunities that come where we are able to sell the long-term interests of the working class over you know the short-term goals of an individual will occur and it will determine how we react to them yeah but the climax of it was when I was hounded, you know, I was arrested inside a plane, you know, Qatar Airlines, and, you know, locked up in a basement

of the airport, or mainly the intention was to humiliate me in a sense, and also it was very disturbing experience because they had all the opportunity to arrest me anywhere they wanted. But they chose to arrest me on the tarmac, on the runway, when we're actually taxing, you know. And the signal was like there is unwanted person in the plane that they need to offload, you know. My luggage was already in and there was like, who is this person? But I did not know I'm the person who the pilot was announcing in the plane. So it became

very disturbing for me that I was uploaded you know over plane in the plane was destined to Beijing and we were having a detour in Doha and then we go to Beijing but probably

I also thought about it later on that this action probably helped me a lot because of the other events that happened thereafter so once this happened And there were three charges that they claim that I am guilty of.

First of all, they accused me of inciting violence in the streets of Nairobi. And then the most ridiculous charge, which was organizing subversive activities to overthrow a legitimate constitutional government. You know, this was strange for me. And then finally that I am running, you know, terror cells. So my question was, the popular education that we are running in the party school does not qualify to be a terror cell. Probably they will have accused me of radicalization of the youth, which probably could be closer to it, but to accuse me to run a terrorist network in my country, I think they still took the joke too far with me. Anyway, what then happened was I was locked up in the basement of the cell in the Jomo Kenyanale.

airport, but something very strange happens because there is a police station also in the airport. But when we saw the officer commanding the police station at the airport, he was not aware. So what I am saying is that there is a department, more or less a state militia, that is responsible for adapting, for arresting people that they think challenges the hegemony of President William Samoirutu. Because remember three weeks ago, we have been looking for combat bomb jaggi that was actually abducted in a car. And we have not been able to locate him. In fact, we have filed court cases.

And the judiciary has already directed that the police should produce him dead or alive. Today, we even got a content from court against the Inspector General of Police. So basically, the current government in its own. has lost every credibility, and they're only ruling through organized violence. Anyway, to take you forward a bit, even though my arrest was very dramatic at the airport, but they had to again take me to three other police stations to find out what I was being accused of. But the international solidarity sends to my comrades like Henry and Adnan And the national solidarity put so much pressure on the state.

And I ended up being released from the police at about 1 a.m. in the night because most of my comrades and the supporters of the Communist Party and just the patriotic Kenyans that are fighting for constitutionalism came to the police station to make sure that I was just not safe, that I was not just safe, but also that the police were carrying. out their work in a condoms with the 2010 constitution and not the, what they're calling the, you know, the police statutes, which are actually a new colonial status that are still being used by the current government to prosecute the activist or the revolutionary. So I was then released out of the police cell under what we call the section 56 of the police act. Now, this police act is illegal. They just decide to retain it. And it basically means that I was meant to produce myself before the investigating officer the day after. But I didn't know that they had even a bigger grant plan when I present myself.

Because they actually organized to storm my house when I was being interrogated by them. And now they were saying that I keep firearms in my house. I don't understand where this accusation was coming from. Anyway, they did not get any incriminating evidence in my house. house. So they just broke and destroyed everything and lacked. So this morning I was presented in court in Milimani, in Nairobi. Unfortunately for the police, unfortunately for me, the department of prosecution said that the cases were not tenable in law. And the police, they could not prosecute me in a competent court. So that is what happened this morning. And it basically

means that there is no reason to go back to court. I did not take any plea, but the police still confiscating my traveling documents, my identification card, and the damage that has been done, I feel very sad that some of my best books who have been taken away, you know, this is, this is my wealth, you know. If they take the books and they are claims, that those books are being used to radicalize the youths. It's not anchored anywhere in law. But most importantly, that the police want to start a negotiating process with me today. They are saying that they have accepted that they will give me back my traveling documents, and they will remove the red alert that they had placed on all airlines to bar me from

traveling on the condition that I will not pursue any this matter further within the legal framework of the country. I think that is very ridiculous for them. So tomorrow I'm meant to appear before the DCIO, which is the directorate of investigation, criminal investigation in Nairobi. And I will go there in the presence of my lawyers and see what options they have for us. But I think it's ridiculous. They have to paste the law. They will have to be sued by my lawyers. And they have to explain why I was arrested inside the plane.

They have to explain why they actually illegally accessed my resident without any such warrant from the competing courts. So that is the situation where we are now covered. This is a very fascinating. told story, you brought up so many key points in your clear account of what has happened that helps describe the stages of repression and which mechanisms in the state. One thing that I find so fascinating about what you've just told us is how similar in some ways it is to, say, for example, the recent audio that has come out about an Australian in Pakistani, a citizen whose family member was abducted and they tried to use this as leverage

to prevent this activist from continuing to, you know, discuss the various violations of the army and so on in Pakistani politics. And what they want is to be able, outside of law, to come to some kind of agreement and negotiate. And so I think it's very important what you've mentioned is that you are strictly adhering to forcing them, forcing all relations with the state not to be these informal kind of negotiations with representatives of the repressive structures, but to force them to defend their actions in legal terms. I find that very, you know, interesting and profound.

Is this a tactic, particularly given the wide base of popular support among people who are not members, say, of the Communist Party of Kenya, but because there's large civil society groupings in order to create a broad kind of front of country. pressuring this criminal, you know, regime for its, for its violations of the, of the Constitution. Is this a kind of conscious tactic that's being, being used to build a broad, basis for continued resistance against the regime? Yeah. It's important to also acknowledge that the Communist Party opinion takes the clear analysis that the most powerful court is the court of public opinion. And we are not limited by Bujua legality. We must go beyond the Bujua

legality. For us, when it happens that the comrades have been arrested illegally or they have been harassed illegally, it is also important that as the Bujua legal processes continues, we also use the glorious opportunity to prosecute this process in the court of public opinion. And it basically means that you are going to drag the Inspector General Police in court, and for the first time, he will have to face the communists to answer questions. It's an important day for us, and during this exercise, we will make sure that we mobilize all our supporters and our comrades to appear in court. So it will be a day to expose the criminality of the neo-colonial turbocapital system in our country. so it's important for us not to negotiate with them in the border but also to drag them to their own courts to make sure that we can prove to the Kenyan public that this criminal illegitimate government is not even interested in following the constitution that has placed them in power it's an important powerful tool for us and also remember that the social explosion that has taken place in the street has not just opened an opportunity for coalition politics it has also opened

a great opportunity to advance class struggle in the sense that the communist party of kenya has come up with a deliberate analysis to participate in our political processes at three levels the first level is the vanguard level where we use the happening in the street to populate our ranks with the best comrades that we have managed to meet in the streets so it is a recruitment moment and to also expand our arts. So that is the politics that we're doing at the Vanguard level and to populate our ideas, to advance our propaganda, to advance our popular education. But most importantly, there are also the left forces that we met in the streets. We met the anarchist in the street. We met, you know, the several other left formations in the streets. Of course, this might appear funny,

but the only hostile left forces, we don't say they're really left, but we don't spare them in organizing at the Truscites because they have done so much harm to us before. But the rest of the left formations, we actually form alliances. And also the correct view that we have come up with that alliance are only the forces of the left that are joined on principle. to advance a left outcome out of the crisis that we are having now. Now, this is important for us because at the left coalition, we are joining hands to make sure that each and the left organizations

that participated in this street action can come together under what we call anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, and that is what the Communist Party of Kenya is leading. We are also expanding at the third level, that we have to isolate the primary enemy of the Kenyan people and redefine the character of our strength. And that is why we are saying

that now we are calling on all the democratic forces. The true labors of this country, the true patriots. And this is informed by, you know, Mao teaches us that you cannot be a revolutionary but not a patriot.

Actually, you must be a patriot if you're a revolutionary. So we are joining hands at the coalition level to isolate the primary enemy, which in our own analysis is the Comrado big land, the Comrado class, and the big landlord in our country. And that is why sometimes you see probably some people want to criticize us that we are engaging the national bourgeoisie to advance our politics. But the truth of the matter is that the Comprado Gujarzine, and particularly the United States imperialism, are the main enemies of the Kenyan people and we have to tactfully make sure that we can bring all the forces that are against, you know, foreign interference.

Because at this moment, the Communist Party of Kenya has brought up the new consciousness that they struggle at this moment is to complete our independence and start the national construction of the economy. And this brings everybody on board that even though the national bourgeoisie are supporting us at this moment, but we can never allow them to leave. the processes that will take political power because we will be committing an error of tailism. And this error of tailism is what is affecting our comrades in South Africa. Remember, the South African

comrades have entered in coalition with the most reactionary backward enemies of the working class, which is the DA, the party of the white monopoly capital, the party of appetite. So even though we are engaging in coalition politics, it has to

be clear that we are only engaging in coalition politics if our ideas are dominance and we are the leading force in those coalition. Otherwise, we will break those coalition to atoms and bring them again. So what I am trying to put through to you that the strong view that we have taken that any police harassment with our members, we will take them to court and then we will prosecute them in the court of public opinion and expose them as the enemies, not just of the Kenyan people, but the enemies of the 2010 constitution that gave us this democratic space to organize overtly as communists. I have one very small comment to make, and then I'll let you ask a question.

Comrade Booker mentioned Mao, mentioning that communists must be patriots. There is a specific context to that, because I know that there's going to be people in the Imperial Corps who are going to misconstrue that. So Mao in 1938 said, can a communist who is an international, who is an internationalist at the same time be a patriot? We hold that not only can he be, but he also must be. But he also added the specific condition, or so specific content of patriotism is determined by historical conditions and then explains that this patriotism is only within oppressed nations. There's only a place for it within oppressed nations. Now, within the imperialist core.

And he goes on to then criticize the Japanese and German communists who had a patriotic character to themselves because they were in the imperial corps. So those of you who are in the United States and hear Comrade Booker saying, Communists must be patriots. You know, if you're from an oppressed nation, then absolutely you must be, as Comrade Booker points out in his mouth correctly stated. But that quotation is often taken out of context from Mao in order to prop up national chauvinism within the imperial core. So I think it's worth mentioning that. I know that Comrade

Booker is aware, but I want to make sure the listeners all are too. Adnan. Absolutely no, very important point. And it follows where I wanted to go with my question for you, Comrade Booker, which is that in clearly identifying national sovereignty and sovereignty of the people as a crucial condition for a broad-based struggle against this corrupt regime, against its alliances and connections with, you know, imperialism and global capitalism. I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about the background to how this wave of social protest and explosion has developed and what relationship it has to that kind of question of sovereignty in Kenya, since this may be, you know, kind of useful in, you know, understanding the sources

and roots for resistance against the corrupt state at this point. Yeah, thank you. But also, let me just add one more thing to Hakamaki's point, is that we always say in Kenya that there is nationalism and there is also nationalism. There is reactionary nationalism, and there is, you know, on the national question, when you're talking about, nationalism is nationalism towards socialism that we are conscious to the fact that we are only talking about the national equation without putting a high wall in terms of the immediate and the most urgent

task of developing socialism and then we bring it home and say that socialism must be globalized because you know in a sense neoliberal globalization is the world system so I just wanted to make that point. Then the second thing is then the question of sovereignty. You know, we have to continue to debunk mainly the Western metaphysical logic of trying to, you know, retain certain concept only in the abstract, but not in the concrete, you know, in a material sense. When you're talking about sovereignty, for us,

It is not just an abstract thing. So brendity comes from, you know, living a dignified life where people can access food, land, and freedom, where freedom is anchored on food and lack. It's a, it's material basis. Because you cannot talk about freedom while you cannot house yourself. You know, the Constitution of Kenya particularly says that you are free to own land anyway. But if you don't have money, how are you? street to all that. So the question of freedom cannot be just talk. It must be anchored on certain

material realities. Now, on the event that has taken place in the street, first of all, we take this correct analysis that our struggles are interconnected. But always the ruling class, and particularly with our foreign backers, always want to hijack the narrative. You know, and this is important for us. you've had this you know this talk we call it a silly talk that has been promoted around the media that the movement in the street is leaderless it is partyless you know and just a bunch of anarchists trying to you know show their anger but this this what people must realize that this narrative was not organic. This narrative was driven by certain, you know, initiatives within the ruling class. And also, when the social explosion happened in the street, even the enemies of the Kenyan people

were recruiting and, you know, fighting, you know, fighting to control the narrative. You've heard about the colored revolutions, for example. The open societies here fully, what are they doing with us? So they are trying to. change the trajectory of our processes. But when I say it is interconnected, remember every time the finance deal came, for example, last year, there were demonstrations in the streets. But that demonstration did not reach a tipping point.

But the majority of the Kenyan people felt that President William Samoilito has given open access to IMF and World Bank to control our physical policies and imposed upon us the repressive finance, you know, loss. That is why when we say that the blood that has been shed in the street is squarely in the hands of IMF and World Bank, we are not, we don't really, we're not joking about it.

We mean it because the President William Samoy-Ruto is just a care-taker. He is just a puppet, you know. So he does not make any policies of its own. He is more or less receiving orders from the United States imperialism and entities like IMF and World Bank. So the demonstrations were even more severe in the last year. But now this year, there was a little different. And the introduction of what we are calling the digital tax that was intended to affect the majority of content creators and the influencers.

And even the disabilities in our country for the first time felt very hard. So the mobilization that was going through online was driven around digital taxation. And for the first time, even the most, middle forces felt that the Communist Party of Kenya has taken the correct position to oppose the finance bill. Not that they were conscious about the effects of the finance bill, but on this very close that were targeting their primary interest. So it's also important to note that this uprising that was happening in the street were comprised by different, you know, classes in Kenyan society. And for the first time, the influencers and the social media content

creators were driving the people's agenda more powerfully to challenge the unequal tax regime that happened in our country. The tech companies, the middle class, particularly the businessmen, were annoyed that President William Samoeruto was proposing to tax them not on the profit, but on overtime. It basically means that if your overturn is $1,000 or $1 million, you pay tax on your overture. For the first time, the middle class that particularly drive to work were being told that they have to pay taxes on all the motor vehicles. So it basically means that the middle class, particularly were not just joining the working class in the streets to advance the total interest of the society, but they were in everybody that was in the streets

at the reality how the finance bill was going to affect them. It's also important to note that for us it was a joy because there was a new consciousness in the street how people can interrelate the heavy hands and the total interference of IMF and World Bank in our domestic affairs. And for the first time, we could see many placards saying IMF must go. We are not going to be slaves of IMF. and World Bank, we want a free, independent, and sovereign country.

So this social explosion given us opportunity to advance the struggle in a very, you know, in a very unprecedented way as has done, not just the way we have been doing the protest, because the highest protest that we had last year was just about a million. But now we are seeing over 10 million people on the street, you know, talking against the government. Secondly, it also brings out that the ruling class cannot rule with the old methods. Because every time there is a crisis in the street, the ruling class both in the opposition and the government always come together to, you know, to shake hands and say, now we're united. what they're calling the broad-based government or the government of national unity,

which is a very deceiving, you know, deceiving concept in the sense that when you say I'm a government of national unity, but it's a government of national unity to whose interests, you know, it's to the interest of the billionaire class. So you're only coming together

to protect peace, to advance your profit, you know, to create temporary peace, but failing to address the underlying. issues, which is actually the crisis of capitalism, but they don't actually understand it because all their positions of privileges.

So they are more determined to protect their positions of privileges than actually addressing the real issues that are affecting the majority of the poor working and the working class. So this is a historical issue. And even now, when we say that we have a tactical retreat to come to season two. What we are saying that, what the current government has done is totally window-dressing exercise.

What they have done is they have tried to negotiate with the middle forces, mainly, you know, the weaknesses of the middle forces, particularly the influences that were actually convinced that once the finance bill has been dropped, it is over, now we are happy. So the people who have negotiated with the state are particularly the middle forces. But the working class that continue to suffer does not need to negotiate with the state because their material conditions revenge even worse after the President William Samuel Romero was forced to drop the finance bill, the IMF backed finance bill, 2020. You know, you bring up something very interesting and something that I think a lot of people

don't have the opportunity to even think about this problem, but you being and operating within the CPK during a time of mass discontent does have to deal with this issue, which is how to harness and how to sharpen the analysis of the masses who are upset with the ruling class and the governing apparatus of the country. As you mentioned, more than 10 million people have been present in some of the recent protests against the government's actions, but it's not to say that 10 million people are signed up with the CPK and are completely in-law. line with the beliefs of the CPK. We have 10 million people who are standing in the streets against the specific actions of the government and in a general deterioration of the material

conditions of life. The CPK has been operating within this protest movement and has been attempting to try to sharpen the analysis of those masses to understand, as you correctly point out, that the contradictions that are at play, the contradictions that have led to the degradation of material conditions of the people, is the result of the capitalist system, the neoliberal capitalist system that the governing apparatus and the ruling elites of Kenya have continued to implement and go into wholesale. The CPK is very clear about that. But it's one thing to be very clear in your analysis and being operating within protest movements that are much larger than just people that understand that reality.

And it's another thing entirely to be operating within this protest movement of people who are dissatisfied, but at the same time, agitating and sharpening the analysis of the people to the line that the CPK is upholding. So what I'm really trying to drive at with this question is,

how does the CPK deal with this situation in which there is mass discontent? But this discontent is amorphous. It's not a discontent that is very sharp and very coherent in its analysis. This discontent is mass with people that have varying analyses that coalesce around various issues, but not necessarily a radical analysis in itself. So how does the CPK deal with this reality of this mass while trying to drive a specific ideological edge into the analysis? us. Yeah, we always say in the party that if it was that easy, there was no need,

there will have not been any need to carry out analysis. But the reason why we do an analysis is to try and deepen our understanding. And even though we have a clear must line, and it actually states that from the masses, we return. And also from the masses, we benefit from the knowledge. But it is our duty as revolutionaries to sum up the experience, the collective experience of the masses, systemize them, and return them back. Because the biggest challenge in this current circumstances for revolutionary was to defeat the popular propaganda that wanted to anchor the mass movement as just a bunch of individuals that are dissatisfied. with the system that needs to be answered to.

So that is why, if you look at our primary analysis and our primary document, the first thing we say, we must defeat this incorrect analysis. And for example, the first time I went on TV, when everybody was saying that the movement must be liberalized, not just myself, but the majority of the revolutionaries of the streets, including my comrades, had to clarify. that at this very moment, the masses are saying that they are leaderless because the leaders that they're entrusted with political power

has auctioned them to their highest bidet and their Western bakers. So to that extent, we can understand the frustration of the masses to say they are leaderless. But also we have to bring out a new and enriched reality from that knowledge of the masses that actually they are deliberately demanding for leaders that, you know, can be answerable to the majority of the people in our country.

But the essence was we were preparing the population to unveil broader organizations around the issues that were being raised in the streets. For example, even when they say they are tribalists, we also drive a popular, correct narrative that the masses were only saying that they are triblous to the extent that the tribes are being used by the political class

to divide them. But they have not decided their own origins. So to that extent that the ruling class uses, you know, petty nationalism, like tribes to divide the majority of the working evil, then to that extent, of course, we are tribalists. So the new reality that we are indeed partyless also must be understood in the context that the political parties in power has continued to broker the Kenyan people to their highest bid. But there is also a new reality. that the people are demanding for a political party that is accountable to them.

So in that case, there's a position with the Communist Party of Kenya to advance the interest of the broader sections of the society. So this is what created the condition to bring out the National Coordination Committee of People's Assembly because we realized that the Communist Party cadets must do their work among the masses and advance the interest of the masses in that score. So the National Coordination of People's Assembly was to now open a complete dialogue and widen the net to actually start a deliberate process to prepare for a popular initiative that will, with an intention to take political power. Because we are not just going to the street to look for influence. We are not saying that we want to have a powerful movement to influence the current regime to actually implement. a pro-people program.

After all, Hakamaki, anything that we have gotten from the state since the time of independence has been a product of struggle. Even though

the President William Samoerito came on TV and said, I have listened to you, I have put aside the finance pay, but the truth of the matter that he did not listen to us. We forced him literally, and he only put it aside to preserve

himself, you know, to stay a day longer in power because why do we need to die in the streets? We lost 34 comrades and that is way low than the number of people that died in the street. Why do we need to go to die for the president to listen to us? And what we are saying is that we cannot reform. The president cannot change. Anything that we will continue to get will be when we force him to do. So we should not continue to only look for influencing the street. We must be intentional to actually capture political power,

to be able to implement a pro-people idea and the pro-people policy. Can the Communist Party of Kenya today take power in the popular election process? The truth of the matter is that we can win some seats, but we want the total executive power to advance our interests, as the interests of the majority of the Kenyan people. So we need to bring all the democratic forces to finalize this process and then start the second stage of advancing, you know, with laying the basis of constructing social.

This is of bringing. We have now 57 organizations, including social justice centers, social movements, the movement of the landlays, the unions and even some faith with a deliberate unite all patriotic forces, all the democratic forces to finish the process of, you know, defeating the compatriarchs with their foreign bakers. And, you know, so the character of our struggle is a national democratic revolution in our thinking, in the sense. And also we say that a national democratic revolution, is only to claim our independence, but it is not the end of it.

We don't put a high war between the National Democratic Revolution and building on socialism. Actually, they are seamless. One follows the other. So, Comrade Booker, I want to circle back to something that you mentioned a little bit earlier, a specific phrase. You said the ruling class and the governing apparatus. I like to throw the governing apparatus in because they are a governing apparatus of the ruling

class. they sell the Kenyan people to the highest bidder. I really like that phrase, but I find that it's more true than just in the way that we are typically thinking of in terms of internationalized financial capitalism, these structures of the IMF of the World Bank, putting these financial dictates,

these monetary dictates onto the Kenyan government that they then pass on to the Kenyan people. We are also seeing it in terms of the bodies of Kenyan people more literally now than we have at any time in recent memory anyway. I'm thinking specifically of the fact that the imperialists have encouraged the Kenyan government. I don't think they needed that much encouraging, but we'll say encouraged the Kenyan government to send Kenyan soldiers as an occupation force to Haiti. We are talking about the sending of Kenyan bodies, Kenyan people, to act as the lackeys of the imperialist West as an occupation force in Haiti. So I'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit about the willingness of the ruling class of Kenya, both financial and otherwise, to use the people of Kenya to bid them off, as you put it, to the high. highest bidder, and to essentially use the Kenyan people to enrich themselves and to make

nice with the imperialist core that runs the world system. Maybe, Henry, what I could tell you is that there used to be speculation that President William Samoeruto is up until the West, particularly United States imperialism. now in practice it is not a speculation anymore because now we can confirm beyond any reasonable doubt that President William Samoeruto is only a dog of the United States imperialism and I could give you examples including what you have just said now when you want to see how the neo-colonial state acts and the people that manages it. You look at the national policy and then the foreign policy. Now, if you look at the foreign policy

of President William Samoy-Rucci, he has defined the foreign policy and said that he is going to have what is calling economic diplomas. What essentially means that he is having foreign policy without principles. And for them, the ruling who are actually a minority in our country are running a foreign policy that can only benefit themselves economically, even though

they compromise the sovereignty and the independence of the homeland. Now, when it comes to the issue of Haiti, It is also important to know that the majority of the Kenyan working class and the intelligentsia understands that the crisis in Haiti is not just a gang issue. The crisis in Haiti is actually a crisis of capitalism, is a crisis of imperialism, is a crisis of the core group. This core group that is being led by the United States and Canada that will want to extract the high issue. you know, national resources and use it only for the advancement

of the dominant class of the United States and their Western partners. This is clear to every Kenyan people. And also it is even more clear that when the deployment of the Kenya, the illegal deployment of the Kenya police to Haiti, the first deployment were taken to guard the United States.

embassy and not the ordinary people in Haiti. It's also important also to note that the historical resistance and defiance of Haitians in terms of rejecting colonialism, rejecting slavery, rejecting imperialism. And I can tell you, the French ruling class has never forgotten the humiliation that the Haitian comrades actually made of it. They continue to punish Haiti for particular reason that the resistance has been able to sustain to inspire the people, the oppressed people who are the majority across the world. So they are only saying that if United States has taken this policy against the Haitians, then Kenya be prepared that if you go against the United States imperialism, you will face the same wrath. Now, the deployment of the police in 19th, in fact, is illegal because the Communist Party of Kenya, including other progressive organization, took this matter to court for interpretation past.

And the court interpreted within the Bujua courts definite that there is no constitutional legal framework to deploy the Kenya police. In fact, the only viable option is the peacekeeping notion that involves the military. So that will demonstrate to you that the bourgeois will want to only follow the laws when it favors their interest. So when they are talking about the rule of law, they're talking about the rule of law that advance the interest of the ruling class and not the rule of law as it is. In fact, if the rule of law does not favor in writing to advancing their interests, then they now retire to what they call interpretation and the spirit of law. And this is a convenience way to make sure that they always interpret the Bujua legal systems for the advancement of no one else, but the budgets.

So, in actual sense, the deployment of the police to Haiti was not just an illegal phenomenon within the Kenyan constitutional framework, but it was also, you know, they masked it over pan-Africanist rhetoric. And even our president has masked himself as a pan-Afrikanist before he was unmasked. Even look at his dressing. He dressed like Kowunda. You know, this is mystical in our thinking. So this issue of Haiti was actually promoted as a revolutionary process

to go and help our black sisters and brothers in Haiti. What will definitely shock you that the concept of Pan-Africanism has been vacillated to actually promote what they're calling the black consciousness to advance the black what agenda, in essence, to dilute the class question within the struggle for a human society. So when President William Samoeruto says, for him, he says the Haitian brothers and sisters, they are all black. Now we go, they help them. But the long and short of the story is that the only motivating is just not to sell the

Kenyan people for a price, but to advance his economic interest. Because remember, any mission, even including military deployment, the money that is being received from the Imperial Corps that comes to the government, the workers, the soldiers, the police only receive a fraction of it. So for them, they think, these people, without even missing my words, they are running you know, they're actually brokers of the, they're slave brokers. They're actually involving slave trade. That's what I will say.

And we can advance this point also on his policy to create employment at home. So for him, and maybe your listeners should know that the Kenya police has the worst records in terms of maintaining law and on. In fact, they are not just the most corrupt, but the number of extrajudicial killings that takes place in our country do not even give them a moral cover to go to Haiti to prevent the ordinary people from dying.

In fact, the main mission will be to suppress the Haitian brothers and sisters for the advancements of the interest of capital, the interests of imperialism. So by the imperialism, by the imperialism, empirical evidence that we have, the Kenya police force and not have any moral authority to even advance the instance of Haitians while they are killing their brothers and sisters at home. And I will give you, during the breach of parliament in this social explosion that happened in the streets, one of the policemen resigned immediately after he realized that he has shot

his own brother in the street. That's how it. was. So this is, in fact, in our country, we call them the root of birds in blue. They are just a criminal outfit to advance the interest of the ruling class. But the most important point is the policies of President William Samoirutu are outward looking to favor the dominance class in the western hemisphere, in the global north, and actually, you know, attack the national project. They attack the national Kenyan project. Because remember, it's not just about deploying the police right. Now president has signed labor contracts with governments like Canada, with the United States, with Britain, to export, you know, is exporting nurses, doctors and engineers

to go and work abroad, basically contributing to the brain drain of the people that have been trained by our resources. While we know that Kenya, as a neo-colonial country, needs more doctors, needs more engineers, needs more nurses. But in our hostels, when you go now, there's a medical crisis. We do not have nurses. We do not have doctors. But why would somebody appear on a national TV to tell us that he has secured 10,000 jobs of doctors abroad while his people are dying of curable diseases? So it's annoying for us sometimes to listen to him, continue to lie. So this is what

we are saying that the President William Samo Ruto only prioritizes policies that advance the interest of imperialism and he only, he is even so weak to rulers that he must even

form alliances of oppression to make sure that he can completely repress us. I hope you saw some video. It was very low moment for us in a country when President William Samoa Routa visited Washington the White House and he was there with Joe Biden and George Biden was, you know, like a small kid, you know. And what came to our mind that, you know, Kenya is not the backyard of

United States imperialism and Joe Biden administration that they can come and walk in and walk out. Now, remember the United States imperialism was facing a crisis in West Africa, because there was a wave of anti-imperialist and some people blamed us for saying for supporting coups, but of course we said coups are not just coups. They are coups that are popular support and there are coups that are advancing imperialism. But having seen these crises in the Sahel region,

that means the military equipment, the personnel for the United States soldiers, did not have a home. So what was Joe Biden thinking about, Kenya, to host them? And when you see that Kenya was being declared a non-natal, you know, a life of the United States was to prepare grounds to actually, you know, realize that the United States forces in the Sahel region could be transferred. And unfortunately, Henry, this has happened.

That is why there is the biggest military base that has now expanded tenfold in Wajir in our country. President William Samoy-Ruto has handed an entire archipelago in Manda Islands to United States administration to make sure that they can absorb the equipment and the soldiers that are leaving the Sahel region. Now even President William Samoirutu is putting us in crossfire by all sorts of, authorizing that, you know, the United States forces can launch direct drone attacks from the, from the Mada archipelago to attack, you know, the, our brothers and sisters in Yemen. This is incredible sense. This is incredible for any sane person to even advance such policies. So what we are saying is that United States imperialism has made sure that our

security forces have been intertwined. Now, even the surveillance that is taking place in Kenya, it's not just the United States intelligence. It's not just the Zionist entity here doing intelligence, but the surveillance of the communist at the moment is being done by a multi, you know, what they're calling a multi, a multiple agency. This multiple agency is not about Kenyans. It is a multi-agency of the United States, is a multiple agency from British, is a multiple agency of Mossad, you know. So this is the person that we are dealing with. We don't know sometimes why if he thinks it's so powerful,

why is he so scared about it? Because why will they be locking us without charges? So now, if I can give you a small brief about the national policy, you know, the national policy, for example, when President William Samueryuto came in, The first thing is saying that he created a fund. And for him, this was a revolutionary fund that was going to give employment to the majority of the youth that, in his opinion, voted him, even after we knew that the United States imperialism helped him to rig them. But he created a fund and he was calling the free enterprising revolutionary movement.

That is how he called this fund that was given a local name. the hustler part, mainly meaning the poor people's farm. And he actually was encouraging people to borrow as low as $1 to $5 to start petty businesses in the street in the name of employment with a serious propaganda campaign that you do not need to wait for the government to employ you. You'd take money and employ yourself. Now, at the end of the day, three months in the line of this revolutionary supposed way to employ the youth, it failed and only corruption immority.

Now, the new funding model, I don't know whether he reads the effects of the Bush administration education policy in the United States, because now he's come back with it and is implementing it almost word by word, because now he's come up with a new funding model, and now he's even negotiating with the private banks to offer education loans to students. So we are dealing with somebody that only is captured by the interest of foreign capital. If you tell me that Barclays will give me a loan to finance my high education at 20% and then the government is a guarantee, it basically means that the government will pay the loan and then for me who will not be having what will happen.

So he's implementing education for the rich, education for profits, it's commodifying education. So what we are saying that at the moment, it is not a rumor that President William Samoeruto is a puppet of the United States dominance class and is advancing the interests of imperialism against the Kenyan national project. It is confirmed. It is factual and they cannot deny it. That was a terrific response to my kind of amorphous question. But first, before I get into recommendations for listeners and then get to the next question, I have to say, that a Kenyan version of Bush's No Child Left Behind Education Policy sounds absolutely terrifying. You know, no child left behind

was terrifying enough as it was in the United States. A Kenyan version of that, I don't know, that just sounds all the more terrifying. So my best wishes to all of the youth in Kenya who are going to have to deal with the repercussions of the enactment of that educational policy. But also, regarding, you brought up a lot of things that remind me of other conversations that we've had on the show and other conversations that we've had off the show. Your comment that a coup is not a coup reminds me of many conversations that we've had about how there's a qualitative difference between Pinochet's coup in Chile and the coups that took place in Mali Burkina Faso, Niger.

a qualitative difference. As you mentioned, these are coups that are supported by the mass of toiling people versus coups that are at the behest of the imperialist core that stand to uphold the neoliberal capitalist system. There is a qualitative difference. And anybody who goes about saying, I oppose coups in all of their forms and in every situation, all you're doing by going with a statement as blanketing as that is saying that you favor the entrenchment of the current world system. We have to understand that in order to

go past, go beyond, go higher than the world system under which we're operating, the capitalist world system, we have to have ways of displacing operatives of that world system. Coups are one way in which that can happen. That's not to say that we should inherently accept all coups as potentially weakening the world system. We have to analyze these coups and understand, is there a qualitative difference between this coup and that coup? What is the situation by which it arises, which is the situation in which it derives its support? And what is the situation in which this affects the world system? And through that analysis, we come to some sort of understanding of how we should face towards that coup. We shouldn't just say a coup is a

coup, and I oppose coups in all situations, because by doing so, we are cutting off one potential way of moving beyond, or at least weakening the present world system. This is something that we've talked about on the show plenty of times. A couple of other episode recommendations before I toss it back over to you with, I have two closing questions. I don't want to hold you too long, Comrade Booker. I know we've been friends for a couple of years, and you know that I could talk with you about Kenyan politics all day and all night, but we'll spare the listeners that for another day. But a couple of recommendations, you did bring up how the skilled workers in Kenya are often moving abroad. And much of the acting as a brain dream, but also

acting as an economic detriment to Kenya, you know, doctors, lawyers, et cetera, are moving abroad. We have a really great conversation. Listeners may be interested in migration as economic imperialism, a conversation with our dear friend Emmanuel Ness about his book on the same topic. Really terrific book. Highly recommend everybody read migration as economic imperialism and for sure listen to the conversation that we did with Manny on the book. It's pretty extensive. It's about two hours long and really breaks down the process by which that happens. who it happens to the benefit of, hint, labor migration is not to the benefit of the developing countries.

Then we also talked about Haiti quite a bit, just to remind the listeners that we have a couple of episodes about Haiti and their resistance to imperialisms from the moment of the Haitian revolution to the present. We have one with Pascal Robert. That episode came out a couple of years ago. And we have a much more recent episode with Jamima Pierre, the good professor Jamimapier.

And when you mention the core group, and he said core group led by the United States and Canada, it is true that they are the two that we often think of as leading it. But as Jamima Pierre makes clear both in that episode, as well as in her writings, we should not fail to mention that Lula's Brazil is also a very, very strong supporter and member of the core group. And many people like to look at Lula's Brazil.

Lula is a progressive leader and therefore turn a blind eye to some of the negative things that Lula's Brazil does. This is one of the darkest and blackest marks of Lula's administration, not just now, but during his first term as well, Brazil was absolutely one of the most gung-ho members of the core group taking an imperialist role in Haiti, both in the early 2000s, as well as now. so we should not fail in mentioning that Lula's Brazil in the past and in the present upholds this imperialist order within Haiti. Too many people do fail to do so.

We certainly do not on this show. And then last recommendation is actually for an episode, which has not been recorded yet, but it's actually one of the next episodes that we have planned. We're talking about Pan-Africanism. We have a primer, an introduction to Pan-Africanism, that we have a primer, an introduction to Pan-Africanism that we will be recording very soon with a couple of really excellent comrades, and that listeners finally will be the beginning of the long-awaited series, 35 parts or so.

I have 35 parts planned, but it could end up being more, on African revolutions and decolonization. So that series is about to get started very, very soon. So if you've been looking forward to our upcoming series on long series, It's going to run for over a year on African revolutions and decolonization. Stay tuned. It'll be coming out within the first episodes will be coming out within the next month or two. But, Comrade Booker, now that I've got all of that housekeeping out of the way,

I do have two final questions to turn over to you. So we've talked about the situation in Kenya. We've talked about the mass protests. We've talked about how the CPK has been organizing within these protests. we've talked about how the CPK has analyzed these protests as well as the things that caused the protests. But I want to get back to the original topic that we were talking about, which is your case specifically. So, as we're looking from this moment that we're recording, and listeners were recording this on Tuesday, the 10th, this episode will be coming out on Friday

the 14th, 13th. It'll be coming out a couple days after we record this. What is the next steps for you and the CPK when we're talking about this case specifically. What should we be keeping our eyes out for as you continue to fight these spurious charges that are being levied against you as an intimidation tactic by the Kenyan government? Yeah. Henry, probably also I should recommend an episode to your listeners. There's one that you're analysis of sports. Actually, you call it sports washing. I keep listening to it. And the young people in the party, the Young Communist League. That was a World Cup episode, yeah?

Yes. Yeah, the World Cup episode with Alex Avenia. Absolutely, listeners, you should check that one out too. Especially for young sports lovers. Why I say that is because sometimes the people ask us, why are we always not following, you know, we are not sports addicts, majority of us. Some of us really love football, but some of us, you know, So then when I first listened to that episode and then we listened to it in a group, it brought several debates.

So I would just like to put it out there. But let me go to the question that you've asked about what next. First of all, the most urgent task for now is to consolidate the gains that we have meant in the street to prepare. for a bigger battle because we know that a bigger battle is coming and we have to be prepared for it. So we have come up with an analysis, what we call the Kenyans, the roadmap to the Kenyan people's revolution. And we have also been able to clarify the character of our struggle and our immediate and short-term and long-term objectives as we take audit of what has happened in the last two to three months in our country.

It's also important to note that we have lost some of our finest daughters and sons of Kenya. We have lost some of the finest canyans through the state murder. They have been martyed, and we are not just talking about the members of the Communist Party. The total count now goes to about 120. And for the government of the day, these are just numbers. But for us, these are not just numbers. In fact, we continue to raise the flag of our martyrs even higher every day,

at least making sure that we must never forget them. We must never allow our children, our grandchildren, our descendants to forget the martyrs of this uprising. So it's a day for us every day as we wake up in the morning to say, we always remember the first matter of this uprising was Alex Maasai, who was a very committed comrade in challenging the state of school. So we are also taking that the ruling class always want to create, you know, heroes for us. So at this moment also, we are reminding the Kenyans of the true heroes of our homeland. And even when we talk about the movement or the restoration of homeland, it's basically to make sure that even we realign with the correct historical processes that have led us thus far.

And also, remember, Henry, when the ruling class want to limit an uprising only to an age group and delete its historical link to it. So one time I was in the TV and somebody was asking me, Buka, but you're not JNZ, why are you in the streets? So it's always a policy of isolation in the sense that, please, this is the young people in the street,

let the old people or anybody to keep all. And it's a way to make sure that they are able to isolate the people that are taking part in the movement and make sure that there is infighting in it. But let me go back to your question, that the agent task of the Communist Party at this time is to advance zealous, to unite all the democratic forces that were in the streets, clarify the nature of our struggle,

expand, you know, our organization, and even make it concrete and strike deep into the masses. That is our objective at the moment, because we know that our ideas only become an immortal force to drive the revolution when they find and they're, you know, their life among the masses. Some of them, in fact, we have been able to utilize the opportunity, even to advance the vanguard objectives of our party.

And some of the active members of the uprising that is seen in the streets have found, you know, the home in the Communist Party of Kenya. The new cadets that has just joined the ideological school, a total of 384 of them were people that were directly recruited in the street. You know, and this is important to always say that what should be the attitude of the communist towards such an uprising or even at sometimes an outright spontaneity? Because our analysis was that in the street we have organized and unorganized forces. But we also took this, you know, the correct.

position that the unorganized people outnumbered the organized forces because we had drawn some parallels that even though we were our aim was to take government through a popular insurrection but after the 25th after the breach of parliament we had difficulties in terms of directing the masses to now the you know the the the objectives of the movement because some of them we are interacting with them physically for the first time. So this is a new realization that we cannot just put aside. So we are saying that at the moment, what you are going to see are more united, Kenyan left, because remember we adopted this position that the unity of the Kenyan left is a product of the struggle. We are not going to start debates on polemics about unity, but we are going to

get out and get united in the struggle through practice. Now, the second thing is that we are going to see the continuous campaign around the real issues and to unveil another popular electoral instrument that would drive the Kenyan masses to an electoral process before or on 2027. This is important also for us because we are saying that if we did not take government through an insurrection, but there's another opportunity that the anger is still there so we can consolidate all the forces. in the street and unveil another popular initiative that will primarily take government through what some of us have called a ballot coup in the sense that even though we do not

particularly believe that Bujua democratic processes can lead to a revolutionary triumph, but at least we will have moved the struggle from A to B and we will be dealing with different class enemy as opposed to outright, you know, class enemy and the agents of the United States imperialism. So if you tell us what next, I think you will see a much bigger, better, the Communist Party, you know, in Nairobi, in the major cities. And now I think they used to call us a rural party. But now they are really thinking about that bad-mouthing of the party. because now they have seen in entire three major cities, we were all leading the processes in the street,

and this probably shook them a bit because we have been known as an underground party, then a rural party, and now they are seeing we are advancing even much better within the working class neighborhoods. Now, the other thing is that we are also using this opportunity to try and bring out to advance, not just to bring out,

because the consciousness is already there when, you know, before this social explosion, there was the big anti-poor people propaganda in the sense that the poor people are being told you can be proud, you just need to have money, don't matter the processes you used to get money. So we had another stage of young people that were admiring, basically thieves and corrupt people that were living in opulence. But remember now, the politicians are hiding their vehicles. They are trying to live a simple life. They are struggling, you know, they are living in hotels guarded by police

instead of going to their nursery homes that they build in the middle of poverty. So this is a very important moment for us to reconsolate the struggle and advance the people's calm and move. steadfastly to the people's victory. And for us, I think the Communist Party of Kenya has been given an opportunity to, you know, with the current conditions to advance our party and the working class objectives. And maybe just to let you know that we have even made a decision to have a special national Congress to debate on these issues because we think it is important.

So we are going in November 15th, 16th and 17th, we are going to have a special national Congress just to make sure that we clarify our ideas and the positions that we are holding now in the party. That's wonderful. Now, in closing, you know, what you've been talking about is what's next for the Kenyan Communist Party of Kenya as well as you personally. And we also have to acknowledge that the Communist Party of Kenya is a grassroots in organic organization. It's not being directed in any way from international organizations or anything like that. The CPK is absolutely a grassroots and organic organization. As listeners who

listened to our previous episode with you, Booker, on building the Communist Party of Kenya will fully understand. We have all of these documents available to us, and we can read through that. So all of the real changes that are going to be taking place within the near future as well within your case particularly are going to happen at that grass roots level from the Communist Party of Kenya's organizing. But one thing that you mentioned earlier is that some of the developments in the case were as a result of international solidarity. An international solidarity is something that we hope are we are able to assist with in some way. Now, most of our listeners are not going to be located in Kenya. I hope that we're popular in Kenya, Comrade Booker. I hope that we're popular in Kenya,

comrade Booker. I hope that your friends and comrades all listen to the show, but I think it's fair to say the majority of our listeners are located outside of Kenya. And as a result, the impact that we can have individually will be rather small, but through this international solidarity that we can help foster and show we may be able to influence the proceedings within this case in a positive direction. So what is some of the things that you would like to see from members of the international solidarity community in their actions in order to support you and support the party in this next phase going forward within the case? I agree with you. And we always say that the most important solidarity that our comrades and

the working class and revolutionaries in the Imperial Corps can offer the people of the global South, which is by a practice is to make sure that they are also organizing within the Imperial Corps. It basically means that the United States will have to deal with their own organization of the working class before they think of interfering in the Communist Party of Kenya. So we give a big shout out to those many organizations. organizations, Marxist, Leninist organizations, and life forces that are challenging the United States imperialism and hedge money within the imperial court. And we want to let them know very warmly that they have brothers and sisters, their comrades in Kenya, in Africa, that share

their own, that share with them in the frustrations, and also in the anger of a system, a globalized system that has to be imposed upon the majority. of the people through violence, which is basically aptilism. And then we also take a clear, the correct line that neoliberal globalization has to be replaced by a globalized system. That is globalized socialism that is anchored on friendship, solidarity, and mutualism. In a sense, the Communist Party of Kenya is also an internationalist. Myself, I'm also an internationalist activist, and that means we are in solidarity with all the oppressed people in the world.

And we always say that the Communist Party of Kenya is the home for all solidarity movements in Kenya. We initiate the Kenya-Palestine, for example, Solidarity Committee here. We also put up the Kenya-Cuba Friendship Society, Kenya-Venezuela Solidarity Committee. And now we have even put up the coalition against the imperialist offensive in Haiti. So we are saying that we are indeed an internationalist organization, an internationalist political party that holds internationalism very dear to them, and we are in solidarity with the oppressed people. The third point I wanted to make is the most important task that Henry you do is to get our story out. Because remember, we have corporate outlets, medias, like we call them the live factories of

CNN and BBC's that only regarded the, you know, the capitalist, you know, half-truths and try to coach stories to try to advance the interest of capital. So the people like you that are doing this exemplary work in the Imperial Corps to try and bring our story and to say that, you know, a communist movement is still alive and it is being built on a daily basis, even though, you know, sometimes the United States have this wrong policy that they have influenced. We say, I don't think how it will sound, but I think I could just say it, because I always say that some of the people I meet from the Imperial Corps are dangerously brainwashed. They want to challenge the communist logic without studying it.

And for them, they just want to regurgitate some capitalist propaganda and get angry at you without having to enter. So I think it's important that the media outlets, especially on the left, like who will want to take our story, it's extremely important solidarity. I remember just after the split of the party, when every person was wondering what is happening with the Communist Party of Kenya, whether we are vacillating or not, you are the first people to get the story out.

And it brought a new discussions around the issues that we are facing in the party. And now look at us. Just less than three years later, we have reconciledate the party from even the weakest point it was to a stronger left. Yeah. And also we are saying that in the imperial core, the comrades are blessed with more resources than the global south. It's a part that your solidarity should just go beyond rhetoric.

If you can offer a material solidarity, then it should not just, it should go beyond the rhetoric. So we are also grateful because through your show, you know, the Gorilla podcast, remember we've been able to raise resources to help us build our party. We've been able to sell, you know, the building of the Communist Party of Kenya through your initiative, which has been an important way to raise the resources. Because remember, probably the Communist Party of Kenya is on the right trajectory. But most of the Communist parties in Africa have struggled with basically,

things, you know, including food for their cadets and everything like that. And the comrades in Africa that are trying to build an alternative, you know, and building the communist movement, remember our brothers and sisters here in Sudan, now we are hosting majority of the Sudanese communists that are here as political refugees and we have to deal with a lot in the sense that The Sudanese Communist Party now is scattered in the entire continent, in the entire world, because of the war that is going on there. So we always say that the Sudanese Communist Party still needs our solidarity to make sure that they can, you know, reconsolate and get back to their country to, you know, to march, at least to challenge the rapid response process, which is actually a right to in militia there. So we will put it through that. We will appreciate any international solidarity.

It's not an act of charity, but, you know, it's a solidarity that is meant to help brothers and sisters that are fighting in the same trenches. And for us, even today, if we move and find out that the circumstances allows our Ugandan Congress to advance the revolution. We will be there to help them to advance that revolution and come back to build out. So that is something that we do very consciously. And there are certain things that we are doing initiatives. For example, we are consolidating the left forces in the region, the East African region.

We are happy that the Congolese Communist Party is developing quite quickly since we started our relations. So we have certain setbacks, but also we say that we have seen bigger progress in terms of building the communist movement in Africa. And we hope that we are going to be able to build certain bilateral and multilateral arrangements and relationships with the political parties, the communist organizations that are, you know, organizing within the imperial code. And we know that there are targets of the CIA operatives. They want to infiltrate them, to destroy them. And sometimes create, you know, last month we were discussing about the CIA and their relationship with the Proskyte movement.

And this international Marxist tendencies, they are walking everywhere in the world. but their aim is to destroy the communist organization. So one day I saw the, in, I think it was in Philadelphia, a group of around 1,000 people carrying flags. And now I was busting with joy that maybe there is hope in the imperial call because this movement. Then I was told, ah, Buka, listen, these are some bunch of trust guides. And I was very sad. I told them, I am sorry if they are because.

Because trust cuts us so much pain in our, you know, in our, in our movement in the road. Yeah. How come again? Yeah, that's what I'm going to say. Well, you have, of course, guerrilla history's unwavering support and solidarity. I feel blessed to be friends with you personally, Booker, and I'm looking forward to collaborating much more. And the year is going forward. Like I said, you always have a platform with us at guerrilla history, and we hope to assist

the Communist Party of Kenya in its struggle going forward as long as we are able to do so. So on that note, can you let the listeners know where they can find you and the Communist Party of Kenya online in case they want to learn more? Of course, in addition to the other episodes that we have with you on the show, where can you direct them to online to find out more?

Yeah, you can get us on the, we have a website, an interactive website that is the Communist Party of Kenya.org. and we published most of our documents and analysis then. On the social media, you can get us on the hand of the Communist Party of Kenya, except for Twitter where we have the Communist K-E, while the other platforms are just the Communist Party of Kenya. And also, for my Twitter account, you can get me at Bukka Biro,

but also in all other platforms, you just share Bukka-O-Money. You will still get me on the social media platforms. Of course, and we will have all of that link in the show notes, as well. So listeners, you can just go to the show notes, click, and you'll be directed to those resources that Booker has mentioned. As for my co-host Adnan, you may have noticed that he had to leave the conversation a little bit ago, but you should definitely check out Adnan's work. Follow him on Twitter at Adnan A-Husain, that's H-U-S-A-I-N, and follow his other podcast, The M-A-J-L-I-S. It's on Middle East Islamic World Muslim Diaspora's, and actually the next

episode of the Mudgellis is a joint episode with guerrilla history that was supposed to come out on the day that you're listening to this episode. But we pushed that episode back in order to get this more timely episode up and hopefully make as much of a difference in this case against Comrade Booker as possible. As for me, listeners, you can find me on Twitter at Huck 1995-H-U-C-K-1995. You can help support guerrilla history and allow us to continue making episodes like this by going to patreon.com forward slash gorilla history. That's G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A. And follow us on Twitter to keep up to date with everything that we're doing individually and collectively at Gorilla underscore pod. Again, G-U-E-R-R-I-L-A-U-Score pod. And until next time, listeners,

Solidarity. So, you know, we're going to be able to be. Thank you.