Halford & Brough in the Morning - All Is Not Well In Canucks Land

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), they react more to yesterday's wild Canucks news from Jim Rutherford confirming the Pettersson and Miller rift (6:00), plus they chat the latest NHL news with Sportsnet's David Amber (27:17). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- Good morning Vancouver! Six o'clock on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday everybody. It's Halford and his brough, it is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studios and beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Intern Ryan, good morning to you. Good morning. And Adog, good morning to you as well. Good morning. Laddie will be with us momentarily. For now we press on. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda. Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler. Well, they pay the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling. They recycle. get paid This is the middle of the 70 Powell Street in Vancouver

We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step Wow, we have such a big show today that we didn't even have time for an intro not even time for an intro Also, laddie slept it that was the other part of this. Yeah, but we do have a big show It's a five guest or classic Albro five gester. Gonna begin at 630 this morning. David Amber Hockey Night Canada Sportsnet NHL host is going to join us. It is Scotiabank Wednesday night hockey across the Sportsnet network. Leafs and wild will kick things off. Canucks and Preds six o'clock

from Nashville, then a nightcap depends Sidney Crosby go to Utah. We'll talk to David about that. We will also, of course, discuss another wild and crazy day in Canuckland with David. We'll do all that at 6.30. Seven o'clock, Adam Vingen is gonna join us, writer for Sportsnet, host at 102.5 The Game. That's their sports radio station down there.

102.5 The Game. Where's down there? Nashville. Okay. Yeah. Well you didn't say it so Adam Bingham's gonna join us to preview preview tonight's game from the Nashville side of things Canucks Preds 6 o'clock From Nashville tonight. We'll talk to Adam about a team that is not very good quite frankly They're down there in the standings. They have very little chance of the playoffs, but they have owned the Vancouver Canucks this year. So hopefully the Canucks can turn that around. Uh, seven 30 many Viveros is going to join us. Head coach of the Vancouver Giants.

Giants are in action this weekend at the Langley event center. Saturday, they host cam loops. That's a 7 P.m. puck drop Sunday. They host Spokane. That's a 4 P.m. puck drop. We'll talk to Manny at 6, there are 7.30. 7.40, Randeeb Janda is going to join the program. Real quick, our programming for the Canucks game tonight. Canucks Central goes from 4 to 5. Pre-game show from 5 to 6. Randeeb and Batch will pick up the call at 6 o'clock.

And then the post-game show and the post-game show replay all the way through till 11pm. So this is truly your home of the Canucks Sportsnet 650 today. At eight o'clock, Gary Mason is going to join the program. Globe and Mail columnist has been a very busy guy lately making the media rounds in the wake of his interview with Canucks president of hockey ops, Jim Rutherford. You may have heard about that interview yesterday. Uh, we, I think we were the first ones to get it live on the air because it kind of quote unquote broke

while we were just ending the show. Gary did a couple of media hits yesterday. He'll meet with us today at eight o'clock to talk about what he discussed with Jim Rutherford. A reminder, we are giving away a pair of tickets and a $50 gift card to the Clayton Public House for the big football game Sunday, February the 9 9th, we are hosting it Sportsnet 650. If you want to go be caller number nine at 8 15 this morning,

phone number 604-280-0650. That number again, 604-280-0650. Call it 815-815 this morning for a pair of tickets and a $50 gift card to the Clayton Public House. That is what's happening on the program today. A-Dog, let's try this and let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened?

Missed that? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. So the biggest story yesterday from the Vancouver Canucks, of course, was the recall of Atu Ratu from the AHL's Abbotsford Canucks After a scintillating performance, which earned him, I'll stop right there.

Obviously, the fallout from the Jim Rutherford interview was the primary and really only talking point yesterday for everyone that is even remotely interested in this hockey team. Jim Rutherford's remarks rang loud, they rang clear, and based on what I saw, they rang well outside of Vancouver, as the entire national hockey media picked up on that story yesterday. Who did you see most people upset with the most?

Jim Rutherford. Really? Yeah. Well, also JT Miller and Alias Pedersen. Oh, those two as well. Yeah. Yeah. But I actually, I led with Rutherford because he was the protagonist of this piece.

But I almost saw a surprising amount of vitriol for Jim Rutherford because I didn't necessarily put him feet to the fire on this one. He owns a share of the responsibility, no question. What about coming out and saying it and quote unquote, tanking the trade value of these guys. I didn't see it that way. One, everyone knows that this was going on, most specifically the 31 other general managers of the National Hockey League.

And two, I think Jim Rutherford's been around the game and negotiations and other executive groups to know that he's not going to do some sort of like wild and crazy shoot from the hip. So maybe it was a little too candid for some people's liking, but I don't think that everyone woke up yesterday, read the Globe and Mail and was like, wow, there goes his negotiating power out the window. Yeah.

You know, the one thing I want to know after all of this and the one thing that we still don't know is what specifically did the Canucks do to try and figure this thing out? Like if you've got issues with people at work, especially if they're as important to your workplace as JT Miller and Elias Pedersen are to the Vancouver Canucks, you work on that relationship.

And maybe we can talk to Gary about this. I don't know if he asked any follow up questions with Jim Rutherford about like, so you know, you've got an issue with these two guys, you know what the problem is. What did you do about it? Now there was a reference in the global mail article to, you know, they worked on it.

Yes. What is that? What, what does, what does work on it mean? Like what. It was very vague, sort of benign statement. Like, well, we worked on it and they worked on it and we got them to work on it. Yes. What is it? What, what does, what does work on it mean? Like where. It was very vague, sort of benign statement. Like, well, we worked on it and they worked on it and we got them to work on it, but no one understands truly what that is.

Did you bring in a third party? Maybe some sort of HR specialist. Do you remember that report from Elliot Freeman from a few months ago when, uh, he was talking about how, um how they want PD to toughen up essentially. Yeah. So that was.

And they didn't want to deal with, they didn't, like the management and the coaching staff didn't want to be the ones to deal with it. They thought it should come from the leadership group and then not too long after that, there was the little fracas in practice where JT Miller cross-checked PD checked Petey and by some accounts called him a baby.

So the quote, yeah, the quote was from an October report, I believe it was in 32 Thoughts from Elliot Friedman. I've got it here if you want me to reference it. And then Fried said, I'll paraphrase some of this, I won't read it verbatim. Fried said, what I believe is that they didn't want the Pettersson poking and prodding and motivation

to be up to Rutherford or Alvin or Tauke it. They really believe in their leadership group. I think they said, you guys are the ones that are gonna have to do it. JT Miller's obviously taking that very literally. And I think Quinn Hughes is involved too. Now, maybe you could put that at the feet of the executive that you guys, while fully cogn put that at the feet of the executive

that you guys, while fully cognizant of the rift between the two players, knowingly or unknowingly, almost pitted them against one another and furthered the gap, right? It's like, if you know that these two have problems, maybe it's not the greatest solution or strategy to have one try to motivate the other, or one try and kickstart the other. But that was a risk that they took, clearly.

They didn't do it not knowing that the two didn't get along. Maybe that was their very weird way, some sort of odd, I wouldn't even call it reverse psychology, but reverse motivation. Maybe the guy you hate the most, pushing and prodding you, might be the one to get you out of

your funk. Yeah. And I think they were probably looking for Pedersen to be like, Hey, I'll show you. Sure. And then they realized that not everyone responds that way. Yeah.

Um, so I, I do want to make note of the fact that, you know, after the interview with Gary Mason, Jim Rutherford then conducted an interview with Sportsnet's very own Ian McIntyre. And that led many to, and they might be possibly right on this one, point out that it's not necessarily a great thing

when you conduct a follow-up interview to your initial interview, but that's exactly what Jim Rutherford did. And he did answer some questions that I think a lot of people had in the aftermath of the Globe and Mail piece. One of them was, if you knew about this rift between the two players, why did you sign both of them to long term contract extensions,

specifically. Elias Pettersson, who is not yet 12 months in to that extension, and Rutherford just pointed out that, look, they're top players for us. Quote, if you have the signed players and it doesn't work out, they're signed and you're in a better position to get a return for them. So the idea was their assets, we're going to keep them regardless of how their relationship is as opposed to making a move in the moment. At the very least, they are your employees and then you can decide what to do with them.

Yeah, maybe. We'll see. We'll see what the return is. Well, that was just his explanation. I know. I know. I know. But I know that was his explanation, but he had to have an explanation for it at some point, right? That might be spin. Is Nils Hoeglund worth more now, now that he's locked up for three more years? He does have cost certainty. Yeah, there is cost certainty. There's also three goals, right? But so that, you know, obviously takes his trade value down. And, you know, the fact that they signed

Pedersen and his play has not been conducive to his contract, let's put it that way, is, you know, teams are going to, like, we already heard reports that, um, the Rangers wanted the Canucks to retain salary on JT Miller. Right? Like, and, and if I'm the Canucks, I'm like, absolutely not. We're not doing that.

Like, this is a clean break. Let's, let's do that. But you know, there might be people that just try and grind the Canucks because of this situation. Like, oh, on Pedersen 11.6, that's a lot, you know, like, oh, if it was 10 million, maybe we'd do it. That's spin from the organization.

We'll see if it turns out to be true. My whole thing with this is, and again, it's why I want to get back to what exactly was done to fix this situation? And were you cognizant enough of what was going on day to day in the dressing room? And if not, why not? You're the president of Hockey Ops, you're the

general manager, you know, the head coach might have a responsibility in this and how they all dealt with this. What did you do? Because if you're the leader of the organization and Jim Rutherford is, he's the president, then you cannot let a situation get to this point. The Canucks look like they are not running

a very tight ship. And that's exactly the opposite of what we were saying about this management group last season. We were like, finally they got some guys that know what they're doing. Right? Like they just, they seem to have everything in place. There's a, remember we talked about alignment

between the management and the coach and the players and everything's great. And now we're kind of like, wait a minute, like mate, like maybe they were, they didn't have everything going on because they've let this situation get to the point where it is now. Yeah, like so that part of the when Jim Rutherford is facing a lot of criticism for this, that part of it, I think is absolutely 100% valid and probably needs to be investigated more. Because if your response to a problem between players is, ah, let them figure it out.

They're both making a lot of money and they can figure it out themselves. That's great, that's a great approach until it doesn't work. And then it really blows up in your face. And then it's your fault. It's your problem. You can't just say, deal with it.

Yeah. What if it doesn't get dealt with? You've got a big mess on your hands in that you've got two guys with I would say fairly onerous contracts. And now you're in a corner where you've got to trade out of it. I do think that there was some very hard line

old school thinking here about these are highly paid athletes. And I have time for this line of thinking that these are highly paid athletes that And I have time for this line of thinking that these are highly paid athletes, that nothing is so bad to the point where they can't go out and play. And I think the important part is that there was, and Rutherford alluded to this, there was enough times over the past few years where the two of them

did play good hockey while as teammates that you thought it would be able to sort itself out. Well, you know, where it obviously started going off the rails? It's when Pedersen wasn't playing well. Yes. Like that's, anyone can have a good relationship when, when things are going well.

Yep. And remember the lotto line was together right before the all star game. And then, um, you know, PD got leaned on to sign a contract and around that same time, his place started to fall off considerably to the point where, you know, I was like, what, what is going on here?

Didn't Kuzmenko get traded around then as well? No, let's not bring Kuzmenko into this. Another wrinkle. For God's sake. Another wrinkle. Um, but always get me, just trip me up. So they're playing well together. They went on that Eastern trip, right?

And the lot of line was together for a bit. Now I think they did get broken up, but the all star game coincided with the connects kind of leaning on Pedersen for, to sign a contract. Either sign or we're going to trade you. Right? And then his play falls off and then people think that, oh, well, once he signs a contract, his play will, you know, it's just a distraction of everyone.

You know, yelling at PD, you got to sign, you got to sign, you got to sign, including the organization. And you know, once that gets together, PD will find his game. Well, PD didn't find his game. Well, you know, once the playoffs start, I mean, that's big, then PD's PD will find his game. Well, PD didn't find his game. Well, once the playoffs start, I mean, that's big. Then PD's going to find his game. Well, PD didn't find his game in the playoffs either. That creates a situation where JT Miller and maybe some other

Canucks, I don't know, but JT Miller is the guy we're talking about here, could get mad. Yep. He's like, dude, we're trying to win games here and you're not showing up for us. Right. And then maybe Petey says, Hey, you know, like shut up. And then it, then it kicks off again.

Right. That, that is, that is easily what could have happened. In fact, I've heard a few things that that might have. Now, right. Right. Oh, now, now the issue here is that unlike other instances of these two clashing. There was always a fix or remedy or they get in a spat and they'd get back together. This time it's the president hockey up says it's broken.

Right. He said, we've seen this enough. And I think when he says that he's alluding to past regimes and past coaches as well, because we talked about this yesterday, right. Travis Green, Bruce Boudreau, Jim Benning, everyone who's been here in an authoritarian spot has seen this. And it's they are now making the decision that enough's enough. It's time for a change. The issue is, is that this executive and this management group

is the one that invested a ton of money and term into these two players. So it's great looking back and saying hindsight 2020 like, ah, you know, it's not going to work out. We tried and it failed, but with the amount of financial obligation in a hard cap league, I understand why there's so much criticism right now. I don't have as much as a lot of people in the general public right now, but I understand why a lot of this does fall at the feet of management.

So what's your, where's your blame game here? Like I'm so mad at everyone, man. I'm really like. I'm very disappointed in the two players involved. in the, in the two players involved, disappointed in the two players involved because you can, now you can say one is more to blame than the other and that's fine. And you can say that, you know,

sometimes everyone's been in a situation where you're just next to someone and it doesn't work out and there's nobody to blame. But this is a team dynamic and a team sport where you have to be able to try and get over certain things. Now, I say this kind of in fear of the unknown because I don't know the depths of which

or the depths of how toxic their relationship got or what transpired or what, you know, went beyond the pale in terms of behavior. Maybe it's not for some people. Maybe it is for other people. I honestly don't know. But when I look at how a team is supposed to operate is if you believe in all the mantras and the crap they throw on the walls and the motivational stuff, it's that you're supposed to try and overcome and you're supposed to try and get past your differences.

And when adversity hits you, the goal is to get through that adversity and be stronger on the other side. And I can't help but feel that at a certain point, both parties were like, we're not overcoming this. We're not any, whether it's try or whether it's resignment or whatever, it's that we're not going to be able to get over this.

JT stop yelling at people and PD, Hey man, put some work in. Yep. Now again, very hesitant with not knowing exactly what went on in an interpersonal relationship and dynamic that could have gotten so poisoned that there was the point of no return. We see it all the time, right? You see it at work, you see it in relationships, you see it in marriages, you see it all the time.

And it can be real ugly, right? And you never know what someone's going through. Keith, the water guy texts in, I think you guys are overcomplicating the situation. There have been many reports of the dressing room being a country club. Do you think JT was part of that country club? Not a chance. Then they had a good year and everything was good.

Pedersen signs a big contract, then shows up out of shape to camp this season, as reported by the coach. I can see Miller losing it, that this keeps happening. That's just kind of what I got at Keith. Yeah. You also seem to overcomplicate it. Like that's, well first of all, you know, I don't think we've been overcomplicating the situation at all. I think this starts with two things. JT is a real hothead,

and some people like that and some people think it's too much and Pederson is underperformed. If Pederson's not underperforming, this isn't a problem. If JT's not a hothead that can be really hard on his teammates, it might not be a problem either. Might be a different response to Pederson. Can I also just say that part of the reason that I'm dancing around the personal dynamic and relationship is obviously because one of them took a rather unexplained 10 game leave of absence for personal reasons. That's never been discussed publicly. And when Miller came back, the first thing that he said about it was that he wasn't going to discuss it. So that to me is something that's pretty delicate and obviously not for public consumption. Now draw your own conclusions. Am I right? How does it look that both Miller and Pedersen completely denied the rift publicly and also that Petey got a little like, you guys are making stuff up. With a swear word in there.

I'm like, oh yeah. Are we? Like, and I think that's, that's what also turns people off about this situation. When they've addressed it publicly, they've addressed it in a really petulant way. There's nothing thoughtful about it. It's full on defensive mode.

It's so defensive. And I've talked about it a few times. This team takes on a real victim mentality sometimes. And that is a turnoff. Everyone's against us. You know? Yep. Well, no, look at when you guys make it to the playoffs. Look at the excitement in this city.

Everyone around the league was talking about how great Canucks fans are and how badly we want a winner in this city and how awesome the atmosphere was at Roger's arena. You know, it was one of the, Nikita Zadorov said his time in Vancouver was the best of his career. Yeah. The best of his career. Yeah.

The best of his career and he didn't want to leave. That's a whole different other story. They were able to attract free agents here in some ways because of that playoff run. They want to be something, part of something special, like a Canadian market that really cares about its team. And then things don't go so well and two, you know, two members of your leadership group are not handling it very well. And I, and I think that's what like it's the victim mentality.

It's the siege mentality that this team often has. They hide from things, um, you know, until they really don't hide from it. And Jim Rutherford does this, this interview that's like, whoa. No hide now. Right. Like, but the players, they're not very thoughtful when they talk publicly. And listen, I'm not, I don't want to make

this about the media, but that's how they come across. Sure. That's how they come across. So you kind of, and this is a dangerous thing to do sometimes, but you kind of like, well, if that's how you are publicly, how are you with your teammates? And you can kind of see by their behaviors How something like this could happen?

Mm-hmm because both guys are so defensive about it. Yep, you know like it's not my fault I'm not my fault. It's someone else's fault. Someone else's fault. No, no personal accountability, right? None. None Is it possible they're like that just because they're so embarrassed by the situation? And how out of hand it's gotten? I don't know if the motivation or the reasoning matters. It's the execution. Like it was on the same day where Tauke and Hughes openly acknowledged that there was a problem.

The two players vehemently denied it. Not just denied it, vehemently denied it. And like in a Leon Dreissel pissy way, especially Petey. Like I re that was a looking back now and looking at that audio, it's just like, why do you got to make stuff up? Yeah. And so all the fans that just creates more, that creates more turmoil within the fan base because people are blaming each other then and they're blaming

the media and it gets really ugly and people start saying, oh, it's a toxic situation. The Canucks media is toxic. The Canucks fan base is toxic. Canucks social media is toxic. Yeah, because someone was being dishonest. So I know. And like, and again, I want to come, the franchise under this current, with this current core has so often just taken on this victim mentality and people don't want to see that out of elite

athletes that are getting paid millions and millions of dollars. So I've got some audio on this that I want to play in the next segment. We'll play it after we talk to David Amber. It's very much related to appreciation, gratitude and the mentality and perspective that you're talking about within the sports realm. I'll tease it a little bit. It's about the Boston Celtics who of course have just won an NBA title and the way that they approach things and how profoundly different it might be from say your local hockey squad. We'll play that on the other side of the break. So on the other side, we're going to talk to David Amber hockey night in Canada, sports net NHL host.

Uh, he's going to walk us through everything that's going on tonight. Uh, five games in total, including the Canucks and Preds and the Leafs and wild. And before we go to break, I need to tell you about Denny's. Yes, Denny's, true North taste the weights with Denny's 100% Canadian beef burgers made with wait for it guys, shredded iceberg lettuce. But not just any shredded iceberg lettuce, new shredded iceberg lettuce. It's all on a brioche bun and all the classic ingredients you love visit Denny's today.

We're out of here for a break. We'll be back on the other side. You're listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. It's Canucks Central with Dan Riccio and Satyar Shah, your destination for everything Canucks. Exclusive interviews, inside info, and even the post-game show. Listen 4 to 6 p.m. weekdays and on demand

through your favorite podcast app. 6.32 on A Wednesday. Happy Wednesday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, more parts. We are in hour one of the program. David Amber, Hockey Night Canada, Sportsnet NHL host. He's going to join us in just a moment here. Hour One of this program is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal.

North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. By the way, it's also a Canucks game day. That kind of got lost in the shuffle. Canucks, Preds, Canucks looking for a third consecutive victory tonight. Six o'clock puck drop from Nashville. One of the games across the Sportsnet network this evening.

Joining us now to break that down and more, David Amber from Hockey Night in Canada here on the Haliford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650. What up David, how are you? You guys are living the dream right now. Every day another story. Just one after the next, buddy. It is, it's dream is a very interesting way of putting it.

It's nightmarish at times. I'll tell you that yesterday was, it was almost a detachment from reality. When we were reading the Globe and Mail, Gary Mason, Jim Rutherford piece aloud on the air, because it basically got published while we were finishing up the show. And everyone knew about the rift

between Pedersen and Miller. It was pretty well established. But to hear the president of Hockey Ops lay it so bare and so frank and so directly, even though we knew it, it was still jarring. I'm curious to know what your response was when you either heard or read the comments from Jim Rutherford.

Yeah, a little bit of shock. You know, I was just, they had the glow of that. A really good last few games. Like they were on a winning streak for the first time in eight weeks and this is what the headline becomes. So I was a little bit confused about the timing of it and this is so out there and real and people know the situation.

You know, I'll give Jim Rutherford a lot of credit though. I think you have the equity behind you of you've won all these Stanley cups in Carolina and Pittsburgh, you're a hall of Famer. You know, you've been an executive of the year multiple times. I think that allows you a little bit more leeway in, you know, how truthful and honest you want to be about your team. I also thought back to, I think it was about a year ago guys. And I remember this distinctly Rutherford had a news conference.

It's when he talked about not a rebuild, it's a retool. You guys remember that news conference? Yep. He said, we have really good players, but do we have a team? And I wonder, you know, I thought about that a little bit in the last couple of weeks, you know, like he kept sort of, he knows chemistry, right? When he won those cups in Carolina and Pittsburgh, they had chemistry. They didn't have great talent, but they had a team.

And I think that was maybe even foreshadowing what has come of this. And maybe yesterday was just a way of him, I don't know if it was trying to shame the players, but it certainly was like, we're not gonna deflect the spotlight. We're not gonna protect these guys. This is the situation we're in, and we're going to live with it. And we're going to figure it out. I actually liked it. I, the time and again, I found strange, but I do think back, I think there's a lot of layers to this. And I think Jim Rutherford has always been a pretty, you know, candid person. And I think again, he's built up the equity to have the ability to

do that. You don't see that with other GMs or presidents of hockey ops and other markets, certainly not in Canada. That's usually everything's close to the vest. So I thought it was strange timing wise, but at the same time, I sort of said, you know, this is something that's been deep rooted. And I think maybe, you know, Jim wanted to wanted to just really put it out there and keep the intense spotlight there and sort of say, you guys have brought this on and we're going to have to deal with it and live with it. Are people in the rest of Canada enjoying this?

Like do they think this is an interesting soap opera or are they getting a bit sick of the whole Canucks story? Like it's, I obviously listen to Elliot's hits in, you know, on 590 and watch it on the broadcast and it always seems to lead with the Canucks. And I just wonder if there's people from other markets that are like, God, enough about the Canucks.

That's interesting. I mean, one thing about fans is they're very insular to their own team, right? I don't think Jets fans are waking up today and going, man, those can not start it. I think they're just so focused on what's going on with them. Leafs fans have fans, et cetera. Having said that, you know, certainly this has become a ubiquitous conversation. And in media circles, I can say every day we're like, oh my God, again, here we go again.

And you guys, you know, being in the local market, it's ensured taking on a completely bigger life of its own. I as a fan of the Canadian teams, and of someone who really wants the Canadian teams to do well selfishly, because it certainly benefits all of us at Sportsnet. And it would be great to have a Stanley Cup champion crowned in Canada sometime during this 12-year NHL rights deal. I'm like, oh man, because I just saw so much promise with what the Canucks were building and the identity of the team. And what concerns me guys in this news cycle that just keeps going and going, the whole identity of the team has been has been shot, right? Like last year was they were taking on the identity of their

head coach Rick Tuckett. They were tenacious and and you know, they were gritty and all those great things and all this talent. And now this year we're just talking about everything else. And and I think they've lost their identity in some respects. And maybe some people including maybe Jim Rutherford would argue that they've never had that identity and it was a little bit of smoke and mirrors last year, simply based on the comments he's been making. And certainly again, if we look back to that news conference where he sort of says we have good players,

but do we have a team? So it's a lot guys. I'd love to, we're kind of all waiting, right? Like we're talking to the producers just as we're doing our show and it's like wow this connect stuff We got to talk about it And and the guys are just like well, what are what what can we add it? There's not that much to add like we're kind of waiting for a trade to happen or something You know or peace to be made, you know, like the joint the dream scenario might be JT Miller and Elias Pedersen going out, Elias Pedersen going out and having a

dual news conference and saying, guys, we patch things up, everything's going to be fine. Let's move forward. I mean, I know that's not going to happen, but imagine if it did, like it could just be such a good moment here for a team that's one point out of a playoff spot. They probably have a fight during the

press conference. It started well. Super awkward. I didn't say that, JT. Uh, you know what though, David, part of the reason that this has been so difficult to cover and I'll like readily admit, freely admit that it's been very hard to cover is because there's not really a

precedent or a blueprint like this. Like there have been rifts between teammates before and there have been guys that haven't gotten along. There have been guys that have been traded because they haven't gotten along. But nothing like this, nothing like this, where it's all of a sudden, it's a years long relationship

that blows up in spectacular fashion. And Lest We Forget also involves a 10 game leave of absence for one of the primary protagonists and doesn't even end with the president of hockey ops publicly announcing that the relationship is broken. You get the feeling that we're just sort of in the middle or maybe there's still a few more chapters to be written.

So yeah, no blueprint on how to handle this kind of thing. No, that's true. I mean, listen, it's great to have interest in your team and the passionate fan base and things to talk about, but I appreciate what you're saying. And I'm trying to think, and I was thinking about this, what is the precedent? And it's not, I wouldn't even call it the precedent to what we're seeing, but something so public and so ugly,

the only thing I could think of is Patrick Wa in that game against Detroit where he allowed what, seven goals and he literally skated up to the, to the president and said, I'm done. And it was, you know, all the, with all the cameras rolling, I think it was hockey night in Canada. That was crazy. And yeah. And what five days later or something, he was traded to Colorado and then

Colorado goes and wins a bunch of cups. So it didn't really work out so well. Um, but that's the only, that's the only sort of precedent and that's different. You know, that, that was sort of a player versus management. That wasn't a player. It wasn't two star players, right? Like two superstar or star caliber players in such a public thing. And there's so much speculation about what's caused this rift between Pedersen and Miller. And quite frankly, I'm not going to report what I've heard.

I don't know what's true, what's not true. I'm sure you guys have heard 10 times more things than I've heard. So it's so, it's so bizarre. And you would just think hockey, like basketball has these types of views. The NBA has such big, flamboyant personalities. This is such a rare thing in hockey and hockey things are usually kept indoors. And so many of the players I've talked to, a lot of our analysts, you know, when you're can candidly talk off camera and they're like, oh, well this happened on one of my teams and that happened on one of my teams and these two guys, you know, they got into

a complete brawl in the dressing room on one of my teams and you're like, wow, but it all got sorted out and it all got sorted out behind closed doors and sometimes guys do get traded but it all happened quietly and covertly and clandestine like, you know, and now this has just so been out there in the public forum for what now? Six weeks, seven weeks? It's been a while. Mm-hmm. So it's strange. I wonder when Quinn Hughes is going to do his next media availability because people are naturally

starting to go like, oh my God, like why would Quinn stick around for this? Especially if they have to tear it down. Um, you know, and I'm sure there's going to be the opportunity, you know, if I'm the New Jersey devils right now, I'm like, make sure we clear some cap space for two years from now. Right?

Yeah. Like, and if, and if you're Quinn, even though, you know, you're the captain of the team and I'm sure the organization and the fan base does mean a lot to him, but I mean, if you're weighing the options, you're like stay here in Vancouver or possibly go make history with my two brothers in New Jersey. Hmm. You know, tough call.

This is the scary thing to me. You have the reigning Norris winner who is putting together a hard caliber, you know, tough call. This is the scary thing to me. You have the reigning Norris winner who is putting together a hard caliber season. You have the reigning Jack Adams trophy winner who I can only imagine is completely sick and tired of this. He wants to coach a team, not babysit and not have to put out these, you know, fires day after day. And, and I consider Rick Tocket and Quinn Hughes, two of the most important team not babysit and not have to put out these fires day after day.

And I consider Rick Tocket and Quinn Hughes, two of the most important key members of this franchise and how disheartened are they with everything that's going on and how frustrated are they? And it's not about winning and losing, right? I think coaches can deal with, you know, this player is not playing well or whatever else. It's all this other extraneous BS and Toauke has found himself in the middle of it. And Quinn Hughes, who by all accounts seems to be a great leader. He certainly is a fantastic player. What else can he do?

He just looks so frustrated and there should be a level of enjoyment right now with this Vancouver team and the base there. There should be a time where it's like, guys, we're pointing out at the playoffs. We've not played our best hockey. We've gone through so much. We're right there on the precipice. We can go out and we can do some pretty cool things right now. And that's not the narrative at all that's playing out. It's just the constant firestorm here. So I'm with you guys. I am concerned bigger picture, right? And a lot of people are just pressure on trade them both. Well, it's not as simple as just trading

Pedersen and trading Miller. That's not going to resolve things that could set this franchise back a number of years. And ultimately, if it exposes Queen Hughes and makes him want to leave, think about how long this could go on for. We can go back to seven, eight years ago where it was a complete mess with the franchise. I think you've got to play your cards so carefully here, but I agree. I think the Queen use and Rick talk at aspect of it is something that would really be frightening to me if I'm Patrick Alveen and the rest of the management group. We're speaking to David Amber, Sportsnet NHL host here on the Halford & Brough show on

Sportsnet 650. Two people have texted in that a possible blueprint or comparison for this situation was the Mike Hoffman, Eric Carlson situation, Ottawa from a couple of years back. I've got time for that. And a buddy texted me saying, Tara Lowens and Donovan McNabb in Philly. So we're keeping really good company here with regards to interpersonal feuds on sports teams.

David, before we let you go, can you set up tonight, Wednesday night Scotiabank hockey, you've got the wild, no Capri's off, he's out for a wild against Toronto. We've also got the Canucks and Preds obviously and then we've got Sidney Crosby going to Utah, Penguins hockey club. Set it all up for us tonight, David. Well yeah, you mentioned it, the big storyline. I mean, it's a really good match up, the Leafs in the wild, two teams, identical points, 62, both very it the big storyline I mean, it's a really good match up the Leafs in the wild two teams identical points 62 both You know very good starts to their season no Capri's off or a little upset about that obviously

And and Minnesota could be vulnerable guys. We're gonna talk about this could Minnesota it all be vulnerable to you know Colorado passing them slipping into a wild card. You have the flames and the Canucks kind of nip in at their heels passing them, slipping into a wild card. You have the Flames and the Canucks kind of nipping at their heels. It doesn't seem like that would happen, but a month now without Kaprizov is going to be a long time, so we'll discuss that and we'll dig in on the Leafs who've lost two in a row as well. And then, of course, the Nightcap. We have the Vancouver game, which we don't have to get into all the interests surrounding what's going to happen there.

And if Canucks win, they're back in a playoff spot, despite all of this craziness, all of this turmoil, all of this DS, they're back in a playoff spot, which actually speaks pretty great volumes about how good the team is when they kind of just set their mind to playing hockey and that's about it. So we're pumped for that, it's going to be a good night. By the way guys, I don't know if you touched on it already, but two big things happened last night.

Cade and Gulley look like could be a significant leg injury, lower body injury fell awkwardly into the board and Miko, I'm sorry, and Miro Hayskinen, Mark Stone, who's really kind of developing his reputation as public enemy number one around the league guys. He swears it's an accident though. He says it was an ag. He said he got tripped. Yeah. Well, I mean, and I've watched the replay

like six times and he does get a stick, rope a hint, skates by, gets a stick on him. Here's the thing I'll say about Stone. You guys are correct me if I'm wrong here. Has he ever had any discipline for doing anything? I don't consider him a dirty player. Like going on the LPIR, you know, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, to get extra great players added to your team is one thing

But I haven't seen him gone and do go and do a bunch of dirty things unless I'm forgetting something So I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt but it's the optics, you know, even Ray Ferraro If you guys heard in the boot rocket, but oh my god, what is he doing? No, cuz he kind of lunges, you know off balance and does take out hates given his knee But it does look like you kind of got tripped, but it, but it was like a weird football tackle. It was odd. Listen, I, someone who I've had that happen, you know, skating, you're casting whatever,

and you do go kind of flying forward and you lose your balance. It's weird to see an NHL player that happened to them, but, uh, and, and Haskinen is an incredibly important piece. And I don't know how serious it is, but he needed help getting off the ice. So Guli in Montreal, Heiskenen, we're gonna update all of that tonight as well. And Elliot will be on the panel

and we'll be able to give some insights. And I'll be doing the Canucks intermissions as well. So I look forward to that. And, you know, we're kind of all waiting. Like my producer tonight, David Zuma, you know, sends out a pre-show text and he sort of said, well, let's just see what happens with Vancouver. We've had that basically every week for the last two months.

We're kind of waiting to see what, if anything, does transpire. So, I guess it's good to be in the news, but it's not always under the best circumstances, right? Yeah. Have a good show tonight, David. Enjoy it. Yeah. Thanks for having me on fellas. Take care.

David Amber, Sportsnet NHL host here on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. K, you have a text you want to read? Yeah, I do want to read a text and it comes in from Brian. Morning guys. Man, what a gong show this has become. I turned 50 this year and have been pretty

optimistic about this team in recent years. We all knew the rift was real, but all hoped it would somehow sort itself out. I am now just pissed and don't want either one of these two donkeys on the team now, because two grown men who make millions to play a game can't sort out their differences. Differences, we may lose the best defenseman in franchise history as well. I need a vacation. That's from Brian in Vancouver, who I think is differences, we may lose the best defenseman in franchise history as well. I need a vacation. That's from Brian in Vancouver, who I think is,

you know, there's blame management, there's blame, I don't know, coaching staff, but the consensus, and there are some notable differences in the text inbox, the consensus is how can these two guys let it get to this point? Where is the gratitude that you have for your position in life? And where is the empathy for your teammates? Where is the empathy for the fan base that you play for every night that you would let this get to where it is.

Okay, so I don't know whether this was like coincidence or not or just fate, who knows, but someone sent me this clip a couple days ago. This was before the Rutherford interview happened. This is actually two clips. The first is from the Netflix documentary, Starting Five, which is an NBA series featuring Jimmy Butler, Anthony Edwards, and Jason Tatum among others.

In it, there's this interview with Joe Missoula, who's Tatum's head coach in Boston, obviously. In the clip, you'll hear the interviewer ask Missoula about Tatum having to deal with unfair criticism. Missoula jumps in right away and says, no, no, no, he doesn't have to deal with it. He gets to deal with it, not has to, but gets to. And then that's followed up with some narration from an Australian guy named Ben

Crow, who's the founder of Mojo Crow, which is a professional mentorship and leadership group. They used to work with the Celtics and they talk about things like perspective and gratitude and appreciation. So I've set this up about as well as I can. I'll let the audio run. This is first Joe Missoula, head coach of the Boston Celtics, and then Ben Crow, a leadership coach. Have a listen and see what you think. We'll pick it up on the other side. It seems to me that Jason has to deal with unfair criticism.

Gets to deal with. He gets to deal with it. It's the ultimate compliment, you know, and that's what we talk about. It's like, this is what you ask for. You asked to be one of the best players in the NBA on the best team in the NBA with an opportunity to be an icon for the league for a long, long time. This is what you ask for. Perspective is amazing thing in it.

So he is the Boston Celtics head coach, Joe Masulla, talking about their best player Jason Tatum about how to handle unfair criticism and their whole strategy is Appreciation it's like who knew like go figure and this is a thing that I don't truly think we understand that Having worked with the Celtics. They definitely do understand and that is when you replace they definitely do understand. And that is when you replace expectation or entitlement, like the world owes me something, my life should be different,

with appreciation or gratitude, the way you see things or your attitude towards things, especially things that previously might have been mundane or unfair, changes dramatically. And all Joe or Jason did in that moment is replace the O in gota to an E and shift it from I got to to I get to. So rather than saying I've got to deal with unfair criticism, I get to deal with unfair criticism. How

good is this? This is what I signed up for. I get to follow my dreams and the opportunities to be the best player in the NBA is like, how good is this? And when we replace got to with get to, we shifted from the sense of expectation to just appreciation or just feeling lucky. I'm so lucky I get to do this. So I was kind of aware that the Celtics did this thing. I wasn't aware of the depth to which it went. Do you think they always have that music playing in the background? The music I was like, am I going to which it went Do you think they always have that music playing in the background the music I was like am I gonna play this like hey

Honestly, I am probably One of the more like caustic sarcastic people out there I always got an eye roll or like a snide remark for everything right who you yeah, so even playing this I was like man. I don't know like it feels a bit small. No no no no no you got to play it like Yeah, that's a good point. I get to play it. I get it. You didn't have to play it you get to play it No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,. It's pretty straightforward. It's like, well, wait a minute. Yeah, your job can be hard sometimes, but the reason that it's hard is not a burden. It should be a privilege that you're in a job where millions of people care about what you do and millions of people are invested in it.

And if you even remove the outside forces, you've been given this opportunity. As the guy said, to like, do the thing you wanted to do your whole life, which was be a professional basketball player. And then when you get to that level, be the best of the best. I got some really great one of one Jason Tatum. And, you know, when Missoula, if you watch the clip, he jumps in straight away and he's like, none of this is a burden. None of this is have to for us. This is all about getting to.

And don't you feel like sometimes when you watch the Canucks talk, it just seems like everything's a burden to them. Yeah, like I don't want to, I think we're under, we both understand why we're playing the clip is related to what's going on right now and I don't want to belabor it, but I even think that beyond, even just the media.

We get to belabor it. Yeah, but even just beyond the media sphere. And I'm not talking about unfair criticism from players. Everything that these guys get to, Miller and Pedersen, someone should have sat it down and be like, if you want to do the got to, get to thing, you get to play with an immensely talented guy. You get to play with someone who's probably going to aid in winning a Stanley Cup and being a champion. You don't win without those kinds of players beside you.

You don't, right? You got an opportunity that a lot of other teams in the NHL don't have because they haven't compiled the talent. And then I would even take it a step further. Like you get to play with a guy like Hughes. A lot of other players don't have because they haven't compiled the talent. And then I would even take it a step further. Like you get to play with a guy like Hughes. A lot of other players don't get to, he's the best defenseman and maybe the best player in the league.

Don't screw it up. Don't ruin it. Mike, the urologist from Brockville, Texas. And you don't have to receive constant criticism and abuse through the Dunbar lumber text inbox. You get to, you're welcome. You know, we, you joke about it, but Alfred and I have made it a point to constantly remind

ourselves of how lucky we are to have this job. Like, you know, we're, we are cynical, critical guys that, you know, like you might not always think of me as like, Hey, there's a guy that always looks on the bright side. Right? But we hear there is nothing that makes us more frustrated. And the dogs can confirm this when we hear media complaining about their jobs. Sure.

Like it's infuriating. Yeah, sometimes some texts will come in that'll annoy us, especially if they get particularly personal or psycho, like it's concerning, but you know, have some gratitude for what you have in life. And I think, you know, Donnie said it really well, uh, yesterday on his show. He's like, I mean, it's a little cliche. It's like, you guys are getting paid millions of dollars to play a kid's game. You know, we've all heard stuff like that and money isn't everything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But man, like to let it get to this point, it's why my kind of initial reaction yesterday was like, they got to trade both these guys. Cause you know, I think back to, I don't know, I don't want to talk about 2011, but those guys had an appreciation for what they had in the room together and an appreciation for the opportunity

that was in front of them. Now they never, they fell a little bit short in the end, but I think they probably look back on that time and they had an appreciation for the time that they had together as a team. I don't know if this is much of a team. Yeah. Like it's all well and good to be buddy buddy and

great when you're winning and your shooting percentage is high and there's no injuries, but you know, how are you going to act when one of the guys is struggling or, you know, it's just, I don't know. There's something that really puts me off about this and it makes it harder and harder to cheer for these guys. That being said, that same group is in action tonight in Nashville.

And you get to watch them. You don't have to, you get to watch them. And we get to talk to Adam Vingen from Nashville, 102.5 The Game. That's coming up next on the Halford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650.