Halford & Brough in the Morning - An Undefeated Young Stars Tourney for the Canucks

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with retired NFL kicker Shayne Graham (1:10) on the state of kicking in today's game, plus they look back at a very successful Young Stars tournament for the Canucks with radio commentator Brendan Batchelor (24:18). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

And here comes Shane Graham to keep their national title hopes alive for 44 yards. It's long enough. It is right down the middle. Good for Shane Graham. The star of the Flexburg. 7.03 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Greg Ballack going back in the archives there.

1999 Virginia Tech football. Shane Graham. What a pull. That was before the enter Sandman era. That's amazing. Good pull, Greg. You're listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford & Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda,

Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Orfee, what are you waiting for the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Orfee, what are you waiting for? Kintec.

So, our next guest is a 15-year NFL veteran, one of the most accurate kickers in NFL history, a vital member of my 2007 Fantasy Football Championship team. Shane Graham joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Shane. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you guys? We're great. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

So the reason we reached out is over the weekend, we just basically came to the conclusion that NFL kickers are way too good right now. It's remarkable how good they've become. In week one of the season, they went 21-423 from field goals of 50 yards plus. So 50-yard field goals were getting hit at a 90% clip. It's remarkable. And we wanted to get you on the show because you at one time were one of the most accurate kickers

in NFL history. So my first question is, the current state of kicking in the NFL, Shane, how good is it? It's really good. I mean, it is, it's, you know, there are several factors, I think, that play into it. I don't know that you're going to keep the 50-yard-plus field goal 90% clip all season because, you know, as we know know the weather turns a little different once

we get into november and december and january but you know it's you know to see what some of these guys are doing uh i mean you're even seeing a change in and you know what what roles does a punter have on a team and the the role of a punter is now 60% holder, 40% punter. And that is because of the success of these kickers. I think added on to the analytics play calling with the risk-reward for going forward on fourth down, I think you're seeing less punting. But the kickers are really coming through from top to bottom i mean i think the averages in general are way better than they were 15 10 20 years ago if not obviously you know five

years ago but you know the kickers are just really doing a great job so shane what are the main reasons why kicking has become so much better than it was. I mean, it almost feels comical that, you know, how long ago was it that some kickers were, like, toe-punting it? I mean, it was 50 years ago. But, you know, soccer-style kicking came in, but they weren't making them at the rate they're making them now. What has changed over the years? Well, if you look at, like like the pure, you know, epidemiology or whatever

you want to call it of the field goal kicker, you know, you had guys kicking with a square toe or a round toe, mostly square toe, just straight on punching the ball with the tip of their foot. You had to have your ankle locked perfectly. Some guys would even wear like a splint or a taped cast over their ankles so their ankle wouldn't move when they hit the ball. You were looking at guys hitting 50%, 60%, and that was considered good. You had, you know, the first guy, Pete Gogolak, I think it was 1968 or 66. I can't remember what year it was. He came in and completely changed how we see the way the

ball was kicked. And it was this really weird thing. And everyone was like, oh, they're sidewinders. It's a soccer player. Well, the evolution of that was it used to be kickers were just this 145 pound soccer player that didn't really lift that much didn't really you know take being an athlete as serious i'm not saying they weren't athletes i'm just saying they weren't guys that were typically the big bulky looking football players so you just saw this tiny little guy off the soccer field that probably didn't even know the rules of the game. And they go out there and they kick. And because you're able to use more muscle groups when you kick soccer style than you did straight on,

I think that's a lot of why you're seeing, you know, the fact that the ball just flies so much better now than it did, you know, 50, 60 years ago. But these guys aren't just soccer players anymore. Now you've got guys that are extremely obsessed athletes that train religiously that, you know, some of them look like bodybuilders. I mean, you look at Joey Sly, you look at some of these guys out here, and they're just phenomenal looking athletes that are as big and strong as some of the other linebackers on the team and probably stronger than most of the receivers and defensive backs on

the team uh as far as you know cornerbacks and receivers you know these guys are six foot two 215 pounds on average probably i don't know if that's a fact or not, but you're getting guys that just aren't these little string-bing soccer players that I think the stereotype most of us probably used to have at one point. Hey, Shane, how did you get into kicking? So my dad brought this funny-looking brown ball with points on it home one day, and all I had ever kicked was a round soccer ball for my whole life. And I had always kind of had a little bit of a natural knack for it to kick the ball pretty hard. But he brought this weird looking brown ball home. I kicked it over a

baseball backstop. And then I actually ended up popping it that day because it hit the top of the fence on the backstop and popped the ball. And that was when my dad said, well, hey, let's get a few more of those and see if we can keep doing this. So then it became an obsession of mine. And, you know, by the time I made it into high school, I started playing football, kicking. I won the job on varsity as a freshman, kicked a game winner in the state semifinals. We ended up winning the state championship as a freshman. And that just kind of helped propel even more like, hey, I'm going to obsess on this, but also I'm going to

start getting recognition for scholarships. So I kind of gave up soccer and just stuck purely to football at that point. And, you know, starting to lift, starting to do sprints, starting to run hills, starting to do more than the average, you know, maybe high school kicker would have done. And that allowed me to get, you know, 20 or 25 scholarship offers in high school. So it just kind of started that momentum for me to kind of obsess over the skill a little bit more how is the force created to kick it so far because there's you know a lot of people like well have a strong kicking leg but there's a lot more to it there's a lot in the plant leg and the ground force that's created there is that something that you actively thought about or did you just go out

there and try and kick it as hard as you could you know when i was playing i don't know that i thought about it in the detail that i do now now that i actually you know my quote-unquote job is i trained kickers um which i'll get to that in a little bit as to how that plays into some of the success of the current guys. But, you know, for me, it was learning the difference of trying to kick it as hard as you can and trying to kick it with controlled aggression. The key to controlled aggression is still swinging hard, but not out of control, not as hard as you can. But you have to combine that with solid contact. Like the way your foot hits the ball has to be perfect.

So the better your foot has more solid compression on the surface of the ball, the more the ball is going to impact and fly off of your foot. It's like golf. We've all played golf. We can all swing as hard as we can with a golf club, but if we don't hit the ball flush on the head of the club, it's not going to go as far or where we want it to go. So the key is how do I keep control and understand when I'm exerting this force and energy at the ball, what's the most efficient way for my body to do this when it comes to body position, posture, flexibility, all these things that can play into it,

but also having the mental control to not change things when the situation changes and still do it the exact same way every time. How much do you, people always make fun of me because I compare everything to golf, so I'm glad you brought up the golf angle first, but when I'm reading about this last night, I'm like, so much of this sounds like the golf swing and just even you saying how you make contact with the ball.

If you look at a professional golfer's club head, they are hitting the ball on the exact same spot of the club head every time if you look like you look at an amateur you look at my club head it's like whoa how did the ball get on top of your driver there right like and it's just exactly it's very it's it's very similar and you know i i was wondering like do kickers have a preference to going left to right or right to left there are some golfers that like to cut the ball some like to draw is does that come up in kicking uh i i'd say on the lower level you're going to get the psychological preference i think when you get to the higher level you have

to get rid of that psychological preference because you don't have control where the kick's going to come from. So, you know, I think ultimately you want to hit your perfect ball as a straight ball. And if you're trying to adjust your foot angle to make the ball curve one way or the other, you're playing with fire at that point. It's like when I see an amateur golfer, let's go back to golf. When I see an amateur golfer, let's go back to golf. When I see an amateur golfer that really just wishes they could hit the ball down the middle every time, but all of a sudden I hear them say, oh, I'm going to try to shape this one right to left. It's all right.

Listen, bud. You haven't been playing with me or something? What's going on here? Watch this stinger. Yeah, it's like you haven't figured out how to hit your perfect ball yet, so why are you trying to hit novelty shots? So it kind of plays like that because if you're going to replicate a movement, you want that movement to be the exact same.

You don't want to start playing with fire and try to come up with gimmicks. So I don't think there really is a, you know, when you see a ball cut or fade or tail or pull or whatever, or hook and kicking, it's usually not on purpose. And sometimes guys do get a little bit of an outside in swing with their kicking, and it can kind of play a little bit of havoc with the consistency of how you kick. And sometimes you'll see guys that are really good at creating a good, clean inside-out extended to the target follow-through, which is what's going to give you the ultimate efficiency and contact. And that's really where you want to be, and that's what I teach when I train guys.

And that is a challenge because a lot of kickers do tend to get that rounded swing across their body swing, and it's a myth that that helps you get more power. It actually takes power away, and if you hit a golf ball, you know exactly what I'm talking about with an outside in and inside out swing. We're speaking to longtime NFL kicker Shane Graham here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. So we've worked through sort of the physics of kicking

a football. There's also the mental side of it, right? Not every kick is created equal. There's obviously some that are in far more pressure-packed situations. And given the rise in success rate, misses become more pronounced than ever right now. I got a question for you. Oh, yeah. What was the most nervous you had ever been

for a kick in the National Football League? You know, I'd probably have to say maybe my first field goal. Because, you know, it had taken me two years to get onto an active roster after I left college. So, you know, that first one, you know, that's kind of, you know, your cherry or whatever. And it got blocked. Dana Stubblefield from San Francisco blocked it at the line of scrimmage and it tipped his finger and flew down to maybe the end zone or something. And, you know, whether it was embarrassing or not,

like I needed to get that feeling out of the way so that I could move on and be able to, you know, feel that experience and realize like, Hey, life's okay. I'm not dead. I'm going to be okay. So I don't be afraid. I don't need to be afraid of the don't miss it type mentality. And I think when I train my guys, I actually do mental performance presentations with them to help them understand it's okay to not worry about missing. Like you have to have nothing to lose. You have to not be afraid of the result. And you have to obsess over your process so much that you don't have time to worry about the result. And a lot of that plays out, you know, kind of like if it's a machine and our process and all the things we can control are these, you know, well greased gears that are all turning, as soon as we start trying to worry

about the result and the situation that we're in, it's like throwing an extra cog or gear in that machine and it's just going to gum up and stop everything, right? So we have to learn how to do that. One analogy that I really like to use, and as guys who golf, you'll appreciate this. Your mentality has to be, I'm going to do my best kick every time I swing my foot. Like every time I kick, it doesn't matter where it's from. If it's first quarter, if it's last two seconds of the game, this is my best kick every time I kick the ball. And that's the same way as in golf, right? So if you were an amateur golfer playing the 17th hole at TPC Sawgrass, the Island Green, right?

And you had one Pro-V1 ball in your bag, but you also had 25 X-Out balls, scuffed up X-Out balls. Which one are you taking? Yeah. The average person's probably going to say, well, I'm going to use this X-out ball because if it goes in the water, it's no skin off my back, right? Like I still get to keep my Pro-V-1. But that's the wrong mentality because you're so worried about going in the water that you've

already conceded that you might not hit your best shot so you have to have that pro b1 mentality that i'm going to hit my best shot and give it its best chance no matter what can you please call my dad and tell him this i've never seen a guy take so many range balls out of his bag when there's water on the course yeah and then and that is the mentality that you know we talk about how big and strong some of these kickers are. Well, guess what? There's a lot of very talented, able-bodied, very physically gifted kickers out there that can kick the ball a mile. And we see it on YouTube all the time. We see it on social media all the time. But so many of those guys don't make it to the NFL because they don't have the mentality to allow them to strike the ball the correct way repeatedly over

and over and over, no matter what the circumstance is. And I think what happens is we get so caught up in kicking the long ball that we lose the fact that we have to be efficient, we have to be consistent, and we have to be mentally strong so that we can handle misses. And when you can handle misses, you're not afraid of them anymore. And that keeps you in a positive mindset where I'm just going to do the best I can do to control what I can do by my process, not by worrying about missing. Okay. I'm glad you brought that up because I wanted to talk about after the miss, right? And especially with kickers, oftentimes it's the misses in the playoffs.

Like that's the ones, those are the ones that everyone remembers, right? I remember I was, you had two missed field goals in a playoff game against the Jets over a decade ago. Oh yeah. And you, it's such a weird thing because kicking such a one-man operation like it's you but your teammates are you know kind of hinging on whether you're going to make it or not so in the aftermath of like misses like that um how do you go about dealing

with it what does shane graham do in those moments well that was a tough time in my life, let me tell you. I had come to the end of a contract. I was franchise tagged that year. So I mentally, after that game, let me tell you what. I was afraid to go to the damn gas station just because I was afraid of getting heckled by fans. Because I was so down getting heckled by fans because, you know, I just, I was so down on myself after that. But when I turned it around, I mean, I think I went the next season, uh, and didn't miss the field goal. And, you know, the rest of my career still kept a pretty high, a really high percentage. It's, it's understanding that you can't define your performance on past performance.

Everything has to be what is next, what is next. And getting through that, I think from time to time you need to miss in order to desensitize yourself to that feeling. It's kind of like if you jump in cold water, it's really, really cold at first. But the more you do it and the sooner that feeling goes away and the water feels normal and it feels comfortable. So you have to become comfortable with accepting that things don't always go your way. And I call, you know, that's a sensory adaptation when you're able to go through that feeling and realize it's not the end of the world. How does my body react to the fear of that feeling?

You know, if I said, can you walk on this balance beam and this balance beam, let's just say it's a steel beam that's eight inches wide. Most of us, if it was laying on the ground, most of us could walk on it, maybe do a cartwheel on it, maybe spin around a couple of times and everything is fine. We could do it very easily, one foot in front of the other. We have no fear of any repercussion. But as soon as you put that same steel beam a 100 feet in the air, we're all scared to death, right? We're all afraid of falling and landing and dying. So it's going to change our mentality. Now, there are a few freaks in the world that would probably love to do it and do it for Red Bull challenges and all that kind of stuff.

But understanding how fear affects us, does it make us hesitate? Does it make us flinch? Does it make us, you know, get a rash on our skin or sweat? Like all the things that happen to us, the more you can go through that little bit of fear and even go through the repercussions after it, the more you get used to that feeling. I'm sure the first time any of you guys spoke on the radio, the very first time, think back to that moment. How did you feel? Were you afraid of throwing up? Terrified.

Terrified. And now you can have conversations on the radio probably more comfortably than you can in public with the average people that you meet. Well, we still screw up a lot, but we just don't care anymore. This one was really good, though. This was great. Shane, we're right up against it for time. This was incredible. Thank you for taking the time, Shane.

And our listeners are thrilled with this interview, especially a lot of golfers texting in and just going I've learned more about golf from this NFL kicker than I have from any golfer in my lifetime. Thanks for doing this today, Shane. We really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. That's Shane Graham, long time NFL kicker,

40th anniversary team member of the Cincinnati Bengals, as I mentioned off the top helped me win the 2007 Vancouver Canadiens staff team fantasy football league damn that was awesome

yeah that was so cool so yeah I kind of had an inkling I'm so glad he brought up the golf because I didn't want

to be the one that always constantly brings it up as soon as he brought it up I'm like this is Bruce Dringas right now he's like combining football and golf yeah well so much is similar yeah it's really cool'm like, this is Brough's dream. He's like, please bring up golf. Combining football and golf?

Yeah. Well, so much is similar. Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, so he's got, by the way, if you want to check him out, he's very active on every social media platform because he's got a kicking school, and he's worked for a bunch of different, very prominent university programs as well.

So yeah, Shane Graham, long-time kicker of the Cincinnati Bengals. Great interview. The podcast will be up in about a half hour's time if you want to go back and check that one out. Man, did he bounce around, though. When we first booked him, you're like, he's played everywhere. And then I looked him up. 15 teams.

Yeah. 15 NFL teams. That's the life of a kicker, though. Yep. He did, too. He had an over 85% rate. And he still bounced around. When he retired, he was the number two for field goal accuracy

in NFL history at 85%. He's number 18 on the list now. He just keeps dropping because the guys get so good. By the way, when he got out of Virginia Tech, the team that he tried to catch on with a number of times he kept getting cut by was Seattle. He had one field goal blocked in the preseason. They're like, Graham, you're out of here. That's it.

They need a very good career after that. Okay, before we go into break, I need to tell you about Tile Town. As BC's favorite hockey team kicks off a new season, receive 20% off any regular priced in-stock tile. Visit them online at mytiltown.ca for more. Coming up, we are going to dive headfirst right back into the Canucks talk. Brandon Batchelor, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks. Canucks fresh off a perfect 3-0-0 record

at the young stars tournament in penticton batch was on the call we'll pick his brain for who looked good what were some of the standouts and then we'll look forward to training camp as well you're listening to the halford and brough show on sportsnet 650. It is Brendan Batchelor, Batchelor, Batchelor Live from Rogers Arena, calling Canucks Games It is Brendan Batchelor, Batchelor, Batchelor 7.33 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650.

Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. To the phone lines we go. Brendan Batchelor joins us now on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Batch. How are you?

I'm well. How are you guys? We're good. Just basking in the glow of an undefeated run through the Young Stars tournament. 3-0-0, the Vancouver Canucks season off to a scintillating start. Let's just start big picture. What was your big takeaway from the weekend that was in Penticton

with the Canucks winning all three games at Young Stars? Yeah, well, they had by far the most veteran-laden team, the oldest team there. So, you know, it's good that they started 3-0. I don't want to take anything away from them, but, you know, the expectation was that they would be the best team in Penticton throughout the weekend. And, you know, I thought they were full value for that.

But, you know, it was nice to see some resilience from the group. You know, back-to-back days on on sunday and yesterday they overcome early two nothing deficits so didn't necessarily start their games um as well as they would have liked but found a way to to ramp it into gear i thought some of their veteran guys really showed their experience in those moments guys like baines and ratu who have lots of AHL experience. And I think you would say that those players performed to a level that you would expect them to, while some of their younger guys, you know, got their first taste of pro hockey, if you want to call it that,

got to wear the Canuck colors for the first time, too. So good momentum for that group heading into main training camp this week. And, you know whatever you can win you know whether it's the young stars whether it's pre-season regular season playoffs whatever it is uh when you can win you'll be happy with that and i'm sure they are where does ratu fit into the future of the vancouver canucks yeah he's intriguing to me because i thought he was really good throughout the weekend and um you know He was a guy that talked about how he knew his skating had to get better and he worked really hard on it in the offseason.

I think he understands he still has room to improve there. In some of the puck battles, I thought him and R. Steve Baines really separated themselves as guys that looked like pro hockey players sometimes out there against boys and obviously much younger and less experienced guys at this level. In terms of where he fits in, it's kind of hard to see that pathway right now because of some of the forward depth that the Canucks have. But let's say they have some injuries down the middle.

Right now they're not the deepest in terms of that position when you compare it to the fact that they had Lindholm last year. You know, I guess it depends if they play Suter on the wing or down the middle in terms of what the depth chart looks like there. And you would imagine that someone like Niels Oman is ahead of him in that regard. But, you know, it wouldn't be too far of a stretch for me to say that he might be the number one center in Abbotsford this year and if that is the case then you position yourself if you play well to be a call up if there are injuries and you know I'll be interested to see if he can take another big step in his game because I don't know

if he was really in that conversation very much last season. And there is lots of competition at the forward position, although mostly on the wings, I think. So, you know, does he play at it? The way I would look at what to expect from him this season is, you know, how he answers the question of how he's able to play in the AHL. And as a result, does he get a chance to play some NHL games? For guys like Atu Ratu to play some NHL games. For guys like Atu Ratu to make an NHL roster a lot of the times well for any NHL player that makes a roster you

have to be able to answer the question what do you do well like what's what's your calling card what kind of situation can the coach throw you out in are you a penalty killer are you a goal scorer what do you do what what do you think it will ultimately be for atu ratu yeah i mean it's it's at least in the short term with the way this team is currently constructed it's going to be a bottom six role so it's going to be less about the offense and more about you know some of those other intangibles like your two-way game like your checking ability like being able to penalty kill um so that that to me is the pathway and it's about how well he can carve out a niche for himself in that regard um you know as compared to someone like neil zomon who um has done a lot of those things at the nhl level already and you know i know that there are times where fans get frustrated because a guy like neil zomon maybe gets more opportunity

um as opposed to someone like neil's hoaglander but it's because of that identity it's because of carving out that role for himself it's because the coach can trust him and and understands what he brings in terms of his two-way game and his penalty-killing ability that has given him an opportunity to play games at the NHL level. And I think if I'm Aturatu, I'm looking at Neil Zoman and saying, okay, that's kind of the path that I need to follow to get into the lineup, to break into the NHL roster. And then beyond that, can you show more?

Can you, as the years carry forward forward get an opportunity to move up the lineup and showcase some of your offensive capabilities as well. Batch was there anyone that you weren't very familiar with that you noticed in a positive way during this Young Stars tournament for the Vancouver Canucks? Yeah I think the guys they drafted this year like this is obviously my first chance to really get a good look at them. Not that any of the young guys usually really stand out, but I thought Anthony Romani and Riley Patterson both had good weekends. They weren't tremendous or lighting up opposition,

but they both had good moments. I thought they were both noticeable for positive reasons, and by the end of the weekend, they had both scored goals. So, you know, for your young guys to have a little bit of confidence now with the NHL training camp coming up, as I said, their first chance to really taste anything that resembles pro hockey before they, you know, likely go back to their junior teams in relative short order here.

A good weekend for them to dip their toes in the water, but as much as I say they didn't dominate, they didn't look like they were out of place either. They'll understand, and Patterson talked a lot about learning about the speed at this level and about some things that he might have to work on in his game. So for your young players, I think that's all you expect, especially, you know, because the Canucks didn't have anyone that was drafted

right at the top of the draft this year. These are more depth prospects and guys that will slow cook a little bit more. So for those two guys to come in to both score, to feel good about themselves, and to be part of a winning atmosphere and to see the the way that some of the more veteran guys that do have pro hockey experience played and the way that they are effective in implementing their games um i think is important for those guys and they'll be able to take those lessons back to junior this year what about this uh big swedish kid Ulriksson, who scored twice? Were those just, you know, he was right place, right time, or did you notice him on a consistent basis?

Yeah, I thought he had a really good weekend too, and, you know, much more impactful than he was last year at the Young Stars Classic, where obviously he's a big guy, so he's noticeable, but he, in talking to him, has talked a lot about having to learn how to use his size more effectively, and I think we saw that more on display this year than last year. He's still got lots of room to grow, and I think for a big player like that, skating is always going to be something that you look at in terms of how are you going to be able that you know you you look at in terms of uh how are you going to be able to transition to the nhl game obviously even though you're big and you've got the

long reach and you can use those things to your advantage you still have to be able to get around the ice effectively but um no i i liked his game throughout the weekend in in spite of the the two goals which obviously were nice and um the one he scored on Sunday was a nice play where Klimovic found him driving the net in tight and he made a nice little nifty play with some quick hands to the backhand while using his body to protect the puck from a defender. And those are the kind of things that encourage you from a player like that.

But at the same time, I think he's, you know, like a lot of the younger guys here at a weekend like this, he's still got some room to grow and he'll have the opportunity to go back to Guelph in the OHL and do that. We're speaking to Brendan Batchelor, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks here on the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Okay, Batch, I want you to harken back to last season.

No better guy to ask about this because you watched every single game and called every single game last season. Drance has an article up in The Athletic right now, Q&A with Patrick Alveen. On the subject of Brock Besser, Alveen says the following. For now, his, Brock Besser's, main focus is to come back here and play to the level that he showed last year and be even more consistent.

I told him that he could have scored 50 goals, but I felt he took his foot off the gas when he scored 30, and we want to see him pushing through. So Brough and I went back and looked at the game logs, broke down the scoring by month, and then eventually in the season, and he hit 30-what, Brough, around the end of January, beginning of February. And then, yeah, scoring tailed off a little bit. I thought it was an interesting analysis from the GM

because I remember Brock Besser being the guy that was scoring a lot of goals in the playoffs, right? Which was a very important time of year. Do you remember, Batch, and I know I'm throwing you on the spot here, hence the lengthy preamble, but do you remember there being a noticeable drop-off in Brock Besser's game

aside from the production, or was it just thoroughly a puck not finding the back of the net kind of thing? Yeah, I don't specifically remember thinking that Besser's game individually had dropped off, but that tracks with the time that the team's game started to drop off, right? Like after the All-Star break, they weren't playing as well. They weren't scoring as regularly. And we were talking a lot about, you know,

regression to the mean in terms of their, you know, tremendous shooting percentage early in the year. This is also the time that Pedersen's game started to trend in the wrong direction. And they went through a stretch right out of the All-Star break where they were 500. I can't remember exactly how long i want to say maybe 10 12 games and sort of righted the ship eventually uh but also had to

battle through some injuries in that that back half of the year like dakota joshua missed some time and obviously thatcher demko missed some time so uh you know that that was sort of a speed wobble for the entire team and you know you know, because Besser had such a tremendous year, I've never really thought about it in those terms of his individual, you know, performance in the second half of the season, because I think we were more focused on, first of all, the team performance and trying to, you know, find a way to continue to get wins when some of the scoring

dried up for them. But also this was overshadowed by the fact that Elias Pettersson really struggled from the all-star break onwards. So, you know, in the moment, I can't remember thinking that Besser was struggling, but obviously the goal production for the entire team came down. And as a 40 goalgoal scorer, he was responsible for quite a lot of that production. I would also venture a guess, and again, I'd have to go back and look at the numbers too, but I'd be willing to bet that this is when the power play

started to get a little bit more quiet too. And that's obviously going to be a big factor in any of those top players' production. So, you know, a 40-goal year, a career a career year for besser you know i i think that that's interesting that alvin puts it that way and i think that's good for besser because it'll provide him some motivation going into the season and he even when we spoke to him at the milford talked about kind of feeling like he has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove coming into this year in spite of the fact that he had such a good offensive year last year because of the way his season ended and the

blood clot and wanting to prove to people that that's not going to be a factor or not going to limit him or impact him going forward so anytime you have a 40 goal scorer who's going to come into the year motivated because he thinks he can be better i think that's a good situation to be in and and you know in terms of his individual consistency, I'm sure there is room to grow there to some extent. Okay, Batch, help set up the week for us in terms of the Canucks in training camp, you know, when they'll be on the ice,

when they're going to be doing their medicals. We're a week away from their first preseason game, believe it or not, against Seattle next Tuesday. And once the preseason gets going, it's five games in seven nights. So buckle up, Canucks hockey is almost back. I think we're expecting to hear from management probably tomorrow. So that'll be the day where, you know, I assume Rutherford and Alvin and probably Rick Talkett address the media.

I would guess as well that that's when they're doing their player medicals and all getting through that process in Vancouver. And then they are on the ice here in Penticton on Thursday. And we'll have on-ice sessions Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. And then things will wrap up with a scrimmage on Sunday before everybody returns to Vancouver ahead of the start of the preseason, as you said, a week from tonight, next Tuesday, at home against the Seattle Kraken.

So I guess the big news on the medical front will be Dr. Demko. Yes, I would assume so, unless there's other news that we're not privy to yet. No, I can't handle that. I'm sure those questions will get asked of Aldine and Rutherford and Talkett. But hopefully when they speak to the media, as I said, I would imagine tomorrow there's more clarity on Demko's situation, on a potential timeline, and maybe a more firm idea of what fans can expect in terms of what the goaltending situation may look like but you know there there's been a lot of reporting on this file already and it doesn't seem like there there is a firm timeline so uh it may just be one of those

things where you know they'll have to wait and see how he recovers and obviously you don't want to push him back too quickly because you know you, you could argue that that's, you know, part of the reason that he got hurt in the playoffs last year is because he rushed back to want to get into those games. And oftentimes in these situations, you have to protect the player from himself because these guys are so highly motivated that they want to get in as soon as possible. But, you know, the most important thing for this team is not that Thatcher Demko plays games in October. It's that he's available to play games in April and May. And, you know, I think that should be the priority here. And I imagine that will be the priority for this organization.

Are you sticking up there for a bit? Are you already back? Are you coming back? Drance lives up there now. He gets all his Wayfair deliveries up there. He just lives in Penticton now. Yeah, I'm still the Okanagan, so yeah, I'll be here all the way through next weekend. Beautiful. Enjoy it, Batch.

Thanks for doing this today. We really appreciate it. We'll check in next week. Sounds good. Thanks, guys. Yep. Brendan Batchelor, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. So one piece of NHL news that we didn't get to on the show yet was the Red Wing signing Lucas Raymond to an

eight-year contract extension with a cap hit just over eight million dollars so they are the latest team to bet big on a young player with the argument being well if he keeps progressing this contract is going to be a bargain in a couple years and then it's going to be one of the best contracts in the NHL he just you, needs to keep progressing. He's a nice player. He had just over 30 goals, I think, last season. I think my question with the Detroit Red Wings is,

do they have any future superstars? And, you know, this is a good question to ask of the Red Wings because not many teams win the Cup without superstars and the Red Wings are proof of that right like since they lost Lidsterum, Datsouk and Zetterberg and you know they lost them through the years through retirement they've never been contenders since then and I remember you know Red Wings fans were such a confident group that they were like, oh, well, you know, Gustav Nyquist will take over for Zetterberg, and I can't even remember who the Russian kid was

that was going to take over for Datsuk, but they were just very confident and everything because they had had such good development. Wasn't it Tatar and Nyquist? Tatar, that was the guy, and Danny DeKaiser was going to take over for Nicholas Lynch. They had their plan. It's like, we have the Red Wings way, right?

And like, okay, well, we'll see about that. It'll just work itself out. Now, Lucas Raymond was the fourth overall pick in 2020. And that is the highest the Wings have drafted, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Since they took Keith Primo third overall in 1990. That's correct. So the Red Wings have, they have bottomed out

in the last few years. Um, but they've never gotten that first overall pick that's been able to take them where they need to go. And of course in 2018, they had Quinn Hughes on the board and they didn't take him they took zedina and the canucks end up with quinn hughes and quinn hughes is that legit superstar the guy just won the norris trophy one of the stupidest draft decisions of all time wow the coyotes too i this that one i i don't need to go to everyone knows my stance on this

right i think i've dedicated enough because your time. Because they're from Detroit? Is that the biggest and he played at Michigan? And the old head coach, Jeff Blaschel, coached Team USA at the Worlds and they brought Quinn Hughes. Maybe he didn't like Hughes' game. He should have. He should have thought twice about it. If Jeff Blaschel was the one that had anything to do with passing on him,

he should, yeah, he'd be tarred and feathered in the talent square. So this Raymond thing's interesting because when you see the number, you see eight years, 64 million. You even brought up, you're like, well, they're paying him a lot of money. Like, can he be a superstar? The crazy part is I think of that as big money. When I

see the number, I'm like, it's big money. You know where his cap hit ranks in the nhl 66th yeah well maybe they'd be satisfied if he was just a 30 goal scorer every year and in four years he's got a cap hit of eight million dollars you're perfectly fine with that basically got the bo horvath contract kinda but he's monetarily like he's making very currently yeah they're making eight million a year and he's also much younger yeah like, he's making very... Currently? Yeah, they're making $8 million a year, basically. And he's also much younger.

Yeah, but... 22 years old. It's funny, because at a time, it'd be like, ooh, $8 million. Like, that's too rich for our blood. That's not really the case anymore. They made a good bet on him. I think so, too. The big question there is Sider, because they're going to have to go way over $8 for that guy.

Really, though? How good is he? For them, he's... I mean, because they passed on Quinn Hughes. They're desperate. We've got to pay him. Who's the best player on Detroit? Nick Lidstrom or their new Danny DeKaiser, I suppose. No, but seriously, who's the best player on Detroit?

Sider. You think so? Yeah. Not Dylan Larkin? No. Too old. But don't you think this is the problem with Detroit? Dylan Larkin's too old.

They've got some nice players, but you don't know if this is the problem with Detroit? The bargain's too old. They got some nice players, but you don't know if any of them are elite superstars, the kind that lead teams to Stanley Cups. I think of that like Ottawa is the same way. I think Buffalo's got some higher upside players. What all those three teams have in common. They're all trying to break through. They're all trying to break through. And they all haven't been in the playoffs for a long time.

And the jury's out on all of them. None're all trying to break through. They're all trying to break through. And they all haven't been in the playoffs for a long time. And you're all, I mean, the jury's out on all of them. None of them have made the leap. I mean, to me, of the three, Buffalo is the most perplexing because they've had the most bites at the apple in terms of first overall picks.

It's crazy. Yeah. They have no excuse. Right. None. Like, you shouldn't be. I mean, they got Owen Power and Ross Mistelian alone.

You should be on your way to being a playoff team. You know, and Otto was an interesting one too, because they've got a good collection of young talent. And we've had this conversation before. You can stockpile picks and you can have top five selections and you can, sometimes you can hit on them. But a lot of this has to do with the environment

that these guys come up in. And I don't think you can understate how difficult it is to stop being a crappy organization and stop being a losing organization. It's not easy. You don't just draft a bunch of highly talented guys and snap your fingers and start winning. It just doesn't work like that.

That's why I love hearing Alvin and Token and Rutherford talking about raising the bar. Right. And just like, yeah, last season was good. This season needs to be better. And not worrying about the consequences of, ooh, what if I say this and then we take a step back? Well, then we take a step back.

What do you want from your organization? Do you want safety and nobody's feelings to get hurt or nobody to ever, ever, ever fail? I mean, just listen to the interview that we did with Shane Graham. A lot of it is about trying to put that out of mind and accepting the challenge, accepting the risk of passing the ball on third and three. And sometimes you just got to accept that your guy has to catch the ball. Catch the ball. You can't play everything safe.

You drew up the perfect play and didn't catch the ball. Stop playing it safe. It's called playing it smart. That was what we call a throwback. Download Hour 1 of the podcast. And Hour 2, because Hour 2 is going to be up in a minute. The Shane Graham interview. Longtime NFL kicker and now dear is going to be up in a minute. The Shane Graham interview, longtime NFL kicker,

and now dear personal friend of the program in hour two. We're heading into hour three, more guests. And the guests that we have, very excited to talk to both of them. Although I'm a little upset that Ryan Gould will not be representing Canada internationally. He, of course, was capped recently twice for Scotland. Which is only fair because, you know, he's Scottish. I know. I know. And not Canadian. I think part of it was that... It's only fair.

I mean, part of it is that I offered to stand in line at the Sinclair Center Forum. I'm like, I'll go through the legwork to make this happen. But alas. And I'm happy for him. He got capped twice recently in the international window with Scotland. And he's just having a tremendous season with the Vancouver Whitecaps.

Now he's got his former running mate from Dundee United, Stuart Armstrong, in the mix. And now the Vancouver Whitecaps are the most popular team in Scotland, brackets, not named Rangers or Celtics. So we're going to talk to Ryan Gould at 8, and then at 8.30, we're going to talk to Manny Malhotra, head coach of the AHL's Abbotsford Canucks, and of course a former Canuck.

He was up in Penticton for Young Stars. Perfect record. What a start for Manny, right? 3-0-0. That's a really good way to end it. We've got a coaching controversy in Vancouver. Should we elevate him? Should we get him up to the big team?

So that's the final hour. Talk at losses last game. You'll notice also, we don't have a ton of time for what we learned. We'll try and squeeze some in between Ryan Gould and Manny Malhotra. That's all coming up

in the final hour of the program. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.