Halford & Brough in the Morning - Blue Jays Pitching Questions + Olympic Team Sleepers

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

In hour two, guest hosts Jamie Dodd and Dan Riccio are joined by Josh Goldberg to talk Blue Jays. What's going on with Jose Berrios? What will the rotation look like going forward? Plus, is Bo Bichette closer to signing long term with the Jays? The guys look ahead to Canada's Olympic team, is Kadri an option? This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Straws hit another one to deep left field. His second home run of the afternoon. What a day for Miles Straw, two homers, and five RBIs already in this one. Welcome back to Halvin-Abrough Sportsnet 650. it's Jamie Dodd and Dan Riccio filling in for the guys this week. Halfin'bruff is brought to you by Jason Dot Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you.

That's Jason. Dot Mortgage. And of course, also brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit sands dash trustee.com. We are broadcasting live from the Kintech Studio, Kintech, Footwear, and, orthotics working together with you in step and keep sending your what we learned submissions

in hashtag WWL what you learned in the last 72 hours in sports. We'll read those at 830. You heard coming back there, Miles Straw with a couple of dingers on Saturday as the Jays just continue, I lost yesterday, but they won the series and they continue to get major contributions up and down the roster to talk more about the Jays. He covers the team for Jays Nation and the DFA. podcast and he's calling in on the hotline powered by Power West Industries. He is Josh Goldberg. Josh, thanks for doing this today. How are you? Yeah, thanks for having me,

guys. Good to be on with you. Yeah, it's our pleasure. So let's start with, I think, what's the big talking point coming out of yesterday's loss. And yes, it was another series win, but another tough outing for Jose Barrios. And, you know, I think at this point, we can talk about the playoff rotation and how it's going to set up. It's pretty clear that as we sit here right now, Barrios probably doesn't figure into that. The more, pressing immediate question is going to be when Shane Bieber is ready to go, which sounds like it's going to be at some point this week, all of a sudden you'll have six clear cut MLB level starters. How do you manage that for the remainder of the season? How do you see this

rotation situation playing out in the near term for the Jays? I think in the near term they'll go with the six-man rotation. It's not ideal. I don't think a six-man rotation is ever the most ideal configuration, especially because the Jays have a fair number of off days the rest of the year. I think there's only one more stretch where they go a week plus without an off day. And you could argue that the benefit is getting veteran pitchers some extra rest. And somebody like Kevin Gosman, who's starting tonight, has historically been better with an extra day of rest. So you kind of factor all of that in. These things always seem to have a way of working themselves out and I would be surprised if it's August 18th if on September 18th

the Blue Jays still are going with a six-man rotation but I think at least for now they'll roll with it it wouldn't shock me if Jose Burrios has another rough outing his next time out if they phantom IL him to give him a couple of turns off to maybe use it as a bit of a mental reset work on mechanics if that's been part of the problem with the struggles as of late and then go to a five-man rotation, but I think for now, they'll stick with the six-man rotation, but I would be surprised if beyond a couple of weeks, it's still something that they're utilizing as we get certainly into September. Well, what is it, what's going on with Barrios?

Like, he can't put guys away, Velo is down a little bit. What are you seeing from Barrios and why he struggled a little bit? Yeah, I think you mentioned he certainly has had his struggles with two strikes. and yesterday it was there in full force. I believe seven of the 10 hits Texas had were with two strikes. And generally speaking, that's a really advantageous position for a pitcher to be in. Hitters have way worse numbers when they're behind in the count. And I just found his stuff just hasn't been quite as crisp as of late.

His sinker has been leaking too much back over the plate and has been very hitable. And his strikeouts per nine have been. kind of pedestrian the last two years. It was 7.16 last year, this year, it's 7.44. He's always given up a fair number of home runs, and that's been the case again this year. He's just not really a pitcher at this point who is a front of the rotation arm,

and it hasn't been that way, really, for a couple of seasons. He's more of a back-of-the-rotation type of arm, somebody who can more often than not give you a decent chance to win, you probably would hope for more than that, considering his contract situation. But I think at this point, you're just kind of hoping that he can limit the real disaster outings like we saw yesterday.

And if he can go five, five and two-thirds, six innings, three runs or less, you'll take that more often than not. But I definitely think if you haven't already, it's probably past time to recalibrate your expectations in terms of what he can give you. you more often than not. So I mentioned looking ahead to how the playoff rotation is going to shape up and trying to

figure out, you know, who are going to be the three starters going into a potential ALDS. And it seems like the consensus right now that I see from Jay's fans is Max Scher, Kevin Gosman, and Shane Bieber. And of course, notable there is Shane Bieber is not actually pitched for the Jay's yet. It's been a long time since he's pitched in the big leagues, in fact. And we all know what he's capable of, of course, former Cy Young winner. So I understand why we're all kind of penciling him in. Are we getting maybe a little ahead of ourselves?

Do we need to see what it looks like for Shane Bieber in the major league level before we just kind of mentally book him for a playoff start at some point? Yeah, this is an interesting one because in theory, I think he's the most talented pitcher right now in terms of just pure stuff on the staff. But like he said, it's been a while. He's made two starts in the last season plus and obviously hasn't pitched the series. He's been great in the minors, but it's a big step going from AAA to the major lease, even for somebody as established as Shane Bieber.

Perfect World. I think he starts game one of a postseason situation, and I think more than anything, penciling him in, is a real indicator of the lack of confidence in the Blue Jays back of the rotation. Chris Bassett, I guess if he's starting at home, you're more confident, and we just talked about Burrio. So if Beaver isn't ready, then you're talking about Eric Lauer potentially or Beaver's not crisp enough or something unforeseen happens.

You're talking about Eric Lauer potentially starting one of the three games of a postseason series. And to me, that's not a disaster, but I still wouldn't feel amazing about the prospect of Eric Lauer starting as good as he's been this year. We've seen his command kind of allude him over the past couple of starts. And when you're talking about the postseason, it's a completely different animal. And I'd be lying if I said, I felt incredible about the prospect of Eric Lauer starting one of those games. So I think all things being equal, some configuration of Bieber, Gosman, Scher is what you're looking at. And certainly Gosman and Scherzer have been great as of late to really make you feel good about those prospects.

And now, Shane Beaver's got a pretty pushy landing spot, even though the Marlins have been best. better the past couple of months. That's where he's going to start on Friday. And you like the kind of soft landing spot for him to get his feet wet. But, yeah, he's got six weeks here to prove that he's, A, healthy, and B, back to his somewhat close to his peak level. And if that's the case, then you feel obviously really confident about him starting one of those high leverage postseason games.

So for much of the season, we were waiting for Vladi to really peak, I guess, because he's been good all year, but since the All-Star break, what, he's been, or second half of the season, he's been the best hitter in baseball, certainly one of the best hitters in baseball, hit his ninth homer of the second half yesterday. How does Vladie's hot streak change the ceiling of the Jay's offense? That's tremendously. You always talk about in Major League Baseball, there are sometimes aircraft carrier type of players who can, for a prolonged stretch, can put the offense on their back

in some ways and do damage with multi-hit games, an extra base hit power, and then obviously mixing in the walks for the high-on-based percentage. And we're talking about that right now with Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. Almost 30 games. He's hitting 368 as on-base percentage is 442 OPS over 1100. The power has been much better. And the biggest difference in the Blue Jays' possible postseason prospects would be their stars delivering in a way that they haven't in the the previous three trips to the playoffs. You look at Guerrero and Beshef's numbers. Yeah, it's still a relatively small sample size of six games.

We're talking about two series equivalents of regular season. And if you had two quiet series in August, that would necessarily register in the same way that it does in October when the magnifying glass ratchets up to the nth degree. But if he can be closer to this level of producer, then you're talking about something that is a lot different. in terms of how opposing pitchers might navigate the Blue Jays lineup with something like that. And for me, it's always been interesting when looking at Guerrero because his overall offensive body of work

has proven that he's a great offensive player. But I think the lack of power, relatively speaking, outside of 2021, has really skewed some people's views of him because he proved that he's capable of doing it. Obviously, there's some caveats from that year with the minor league stadiums that the Blue Jays plays a chunk of games at. But I just don't think that's the type of hitter he is. I don't think he's a consistent 35 or obviously 40 plus home run hitter. He's in the high 20s, low 30s. But you can live with that if you're hitting 300 and getting on base and smoking doubles as well.

So I think as long as you are realistic in terms of that sense with the power stuff with Guerrero, it's hard to really. nitpick too much about what his end of season numbers will probably end up looking like. And of course the other star player that's really, you know, defined this stretch of seasons for the Jays in both a positive way and in a disappointing

way. And we're talking about the playoff performances is Bo Bichette and really just having another, you know, very classic typical Bobichette season hitting around 300. You know, he's never going to walk a lot, doing basically what you expect from Bobichette at the plate. But of course, unlike Vladie, he's

unsigned beyond this year. What do you think plays out with the Jays and Bo Bichette regarding his contractual status? I, this is a, your guess is good as mine. This could go any number of ways. I think, I think the Blue Jays

will make a serious effort to re-sign him, but there are certainly some concerns, I guess, if you're talking about a long-term lucrative deal, he'll be 28 next season when opening day comes around. And defensively, he is not, let's say, one of the top defenders at

shortstop in Major League Baseball. Defensively, in terms of his metrics, he's been below average more often than not in his career. And you have to factor in how long do you foresee him at shortstop? Are you talking about moving him to third base, second base? How much does that factor into the calculus when you're talking about what kind of contract you're prepared to give him? Because if he views himself as a shortstop, then that's obviously you look at some of the deals that free agent short stops have received over the last number of years. That's obviously a huge ticket. If you're baking in a move to second or third base, then maybe that drives the term and the dollar amount down. So I'm sure the Blue Jays, they're pretty historically outside of the Guerrero contract, pretty consistent in terms of their valuations for players.

but I think if one team is prepared to really pay a premium and pay Bichette like he's going to be a shortstop for the lion's share of whatever the contract looks like, then that might drive him to a price tag that the Blue Jays aren't necessarily comfortable going to. But if they don't bring him back next year, that obviously leaves a major hole in their lineup. We're talking about a guy who is on the verge of leading the American League and hits for the third time, career, and players like that are very hard to replace, whether you're talking internally or you want to go via trade or free agency to try and replace that level of production externally. Yeah, that point about his defensive future, I think, is so important because, as you said, he's not like an elite defensive shortstop, but he's credible.

And I think if you think he can give you, you know, let's say five more years as a credible shortstop, then he would be immensely difficult to replace, right? that's a really, really hard player to find. If you're thinking, you know, next year, the year after, he might need to move to third, well, all of a sudden you're looking and saying, okay, the bat is a lot less impressive at third base, all of a sudden than shortstop.

And I think it becomes a lot more difficult to commit. But if you think he's a shortstop, I just look at it and I feel like the Js are going to turn around and say, I mean, where are we replacing this guy? Where are we getting a shortstop who helps us compete like Bo has? Yeah, I think that's really what it boils down to. His defensive numbers this year have been quite poor. He's been in basically the bottom percentile in terms of outs above average.

Last year he was pretty good. Sometimes you kind of have to block out the noise when it comes to data like this. But historically speaking, he's been closer to the bottom 20 percentile in terms of the defensive metrics at shortstop. Athletically, I don't think he's a great athlete. He's not a bad athlete, but stuff like that always gets worse over time. I think before long, potentially in year two or year three of that contract, you're really looking at most of the value coming from the bat. And if he can perform as he has basically for the last five years outside of last year,

which I think we can chalk up to injuries, then you're probably willing to live with that. But the margin for error shrinks quite a bit when most of the value comes from one area of the game, as I think it would with Bichette. But like you said, the alternatives are not amazing. The Blue Jays have proven that they're prepared to spend money, and I think that a season like this will just reinforce that. I don't think that anything's going to change in terms of them being one of the top,

you know, five to seven payroll teams in the year. So I wouldn't be surprised if they were aggressive financially or potentially in terms of allocating some of their prospects to replace Bichette. But players like that don't grow on trees, so it will be difficult. If they can't resign him or don't feel as though it's the best path moving forward, it's hard to envision a scenario that doesn't include Bobuchette in 2026 as a team that would be better than the current roster right now. If I were to set the over-under for Alejandro Kirk's stolen bases for the rest of his career at half, Are you taking the over or the under?

I guess I would take the over just by like the way it happened the other night. You never know. Baseball's a crazy game. Stuff happened. You catch somebody napping. He's a very smart player. Considering his age and how much longer I expect he'll play, I'll throw a stolen base in his way. I think he'll swipe at least

one more bag in his career. We can only hope. We hope to see it. That was a fantastic moment from the weekend. Fat guy touchdowns and fat guy stolen bases. They're the best. Yes, they are. Josh, really appreciate you doing this for us this morning. Thanks, man. Thanks for having you guys.

That is Josh Goldberg from Jay's Nation and the DFA podcast. Yeah, and the way his teammates celebrated too. It's so good. You know, you're like... Not known for his base running. No. I mean, he's a... He's a... A lot of catchers are pudgy, but, you know, Kirk is a different level.

Kirk is definitely unique body shape in professional sports. It is, it is very similar to like, you know, fat guy touchdowns and fat guy stolen bases or. I always remember the Prince Fielder inside the park home run. Yeah. That was a legendary moment. Benji Malina had a triple. Yeah. Benji Malina triple.

Man, that was thrilling. I couldn't believe it. It was just, it was crazy. even uh anytime bartola cologne had to run the bases wasn't it wasn't his home run trot that one time it was like they clocked it it was like a minute and 30 seconds or something it was insane a lot of jiggle in the home run track for for bartolo colone and benjia milina i just looked it up one stolen base as a trauma loujay he ties or he got tied by a Alejandro kirk yeah so so Kirk you know if

I were Alejandro kirk um you know never even attempt another stolen base no you got to finish for a perfect perfect mark perfect perfect perfect perfect perfect stolen base record has never been caught stealing as one stolen base to his name. I don't think we have to worry about him attempting a lot more stolen bases. I don't think we're going to see it a lot. You don't get a stolen base when it's defensive indifference do you? No. No. Okay. Yeah.

So that usually is what prevents players like him from getting the stolen base. They've got like a whole rule set up. You're like, no, no, that doesn't count. That's not a real stolen base. They could have got you out if they wanted to. Talboton Broughier's Sportsnet 650. Jamie. Dan Riccio filling in for the guys.

And we're going to have a chat in the next segment. We can dive in a little bit to Canada's Olympic team roster and picture, and that's in light of some of the comments from Nazam Kodry recently. Before we get to that, though, again, there's such a packed weekend in the world of sports that we didn't have a chance to get to it in what happened. But I know you wanted to touch a little bit on Scotty Schaeffler winning again, this time at the BMW championship. And we played the clip in the intro of the incredible chip shot he had on 17 to really kind of seal it trailed Robert McIntyre by four strokes going into the day

did not matter at all and some of the stats for Scotty Sheffler at this point like we all know he's dominant yeah that was his 13th straight tournament finishing in the top eight it's crazy that's wild four wins in there a couple of majors of course included in that it's the longest streak finishing in the top

top eight since Tom Weisskopf in 1973 So like Nicholas, Tiger, you go down the list. They did not have this type of streak and really we're throwing out those names. And it's hard to get around like this is the best stretch of golf we've seen since peak Tiger. And I look at that performance yesterday in particular. I do start to wonder like, is he having the same effect that Tiger used to have? Where if you were going up against Tiger on Sunday, it's like, well, you're going to lose. Because it's Tiger and he has the aura and you don't and he's going to make the show.

shots and you're probably going to wilt under the pressure of going up against the world's best player. And even though they are completely different personalities, we've had the conversation about Sheffler and we've heard his comments, you know, about how he doesn't define himself with his golf championships and all that. Whatever the case, though, the other players know this guy's a robot, this guy's a machine, and I'm not. And I think you're starting to see that. And that's the most tiger-esque part about it is just the feeling of inevitability when he's in the mix on Sunday that he's going to find a way to get it done. it's, uh, he's just always there. He doesn't make enough, like, I know he had a couple of moments where

he maybe opened the door a smidge for Robert McIntyre yesterday, but he just rarely has any mistakes. And even when he does, he follows it up with a birdie to, to really shove it down your throat. It's been an unbelievable run. And now, like, again, outside of Tiger's 2000 season, which is like just the most insane. It's the pinnacle. It's the most dominant. year an athlete has maybe ever had on planet earth of any sport, what Tiger did in 2000. But other than that, Sheffler has reached Tiger levels, his seven events last year, another five this year with two majors. He's just been unbelievable. And I guess my only wonder is would Sheffler be this kind of dominant if Liv hadn't stolen some of golf's best talents?

away from the PGA tour like, you know, Rom just won the live tour on points. He didn't actually win any event this year, but he won the points title, whatever that means for the live tour, because I don't really... Who knows how that works? Yeah, Joaquin Neiman has been really good. He won five live

events this year, but has been gong show in the majors. Bryson DeCombo, he's been good in the majors, but hasn't won a ton on live. Well, that's the thing, though, right? It's not as if we have no reference for what Sheffler looks like going up against these guys. He plays against him the majors. And he's winning and they're not.

He's won majors against them over the last couple of years while he's had this dominant sense. But does it change what it would look like if they were on tour right now? Maybe a little bit. But even still, it's remarkable what Sheffler has been able to do. And you think about it just from a this weekend is the tour championship, right? I know going into the BMW, Sheffler was like, plus 220. Peak Tiger, I think he was like even money going into some tournaments, right? Which is... No, you used to be able to like going to the Masters. It would be like, are you taking Tiger or the field? And it was like, coin flip. Are we there yet with Sheffler? We're getting there. Like, if it's Sheffler versus the field, who are you taking this weekend in the tour championship?

Him against the 29 best on the PGA tour for the tour championship. And honestly, it's hard not to take Sheffler at this point. Even if he doesn't win this weekend, we know who the best golfer is on planet earth and he's already won including bonuses this year a total of 46 million dollars nearly 47 million dollars in in bonus money and tour earnings not bad and i think he really what he's done this year is change the conversation from you know hey can he win a few more majors right how long does he last is the world's number one to when does he complete the career grand slam and when, like, how close to Tiger and Nicholas does he go? Right?

Like, that's the conversation he's in now. He is, we've seen good stretches from, you know, you go back, Deschambo, Kepka, Dustin Johnson, right, where they've won a couple majors or they've won a lot of tournaments in a short span, but it's never felt like this. And really, he's gone to that next level that those guys never reached, that even like Phil Mickelson never reached, right? Yeah. As great a career as he had where it's, okay, you're chasing,

the true elites elite of the game going back decades. That's the company he's put himself in and it's just a blast to watch. He just, like the way it all played out, like the first hole, McIntyre goes wide right and Sheffler nails it down the middle and then by the fifth hole he overturns a four shot deficit to take the lead. It's just like, it's tough. Man, you know, you go up against this guy, you know he's not going to make a mistake and it just, you know, it gets you, it's squeaky bum time and you got to do it or don't. and a lot of times they are folding under the pressure

and that to me is very tiger-esque from Scotty Sheffler. It's a rider cup year as well. Yeah. It was always like did Tiger end up having like a rider cup moment? Because there was always conversation around that. Not really.

So I want like that's another potential separating factor at least to kind of close the gap. He's got a long way to go before he's got Tiger's resume. But very curious to see because he is just so undisputedly the best golfer in the world, how that translates to, to the Rider Cup format as well in a little bit here.

All right, send your text in 650, 650 is the Dunbar Lumber text line. Again, we will do what we learned coming up at 8.30. We're going to chat with Julian McKenzie at 8 o'clock. We'll talk a little senators. He covers Ottawa for the athletic, but he used to cover the flames. And he had a good piece interviewing Nazim Kadri up recently at the athletic as well. So we can get into that. And we can talk a little bit about Cadry's comments.

And does he figure into the picture for Team Kandri? Canada at the Olympics. If not, what does that say about him? What does that say about Team Canada as well? So we'll do that. We can maybe talk a little baseball as well on the other side here on Halford and Brough, Sportsnet, 650. Welcome back, Halford and Brough SportsNet 650. Oh, what's expecting that? What a vibe. It's like Men Without Hats or something.

Like, what is this? Electric Lights Orchestra, little vibes there. I'm into it. I'm into it, yeah. All right. It is Jamie Dodd and Dan Riccio filling in for Halford & Brough. This week, Halford & Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks.

Visit sands-trustee.com. This hour is brought to you by jason.orgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. That's jason. Dot mortgage. It's another season of hard hits. He did rivalries and nonstop entertainment for the BC Lions. For tickets, visit BCLions.com and get ready to roar as one.

650, 650 is the Dunbar Lumber text line. Send your text in. Send your what we learned submissions in. We'll do that coming up at 830. I would say we've got some openings for submissions. We need some more material, guys, for that 830 segment. So do your part. Send those texts in now, 650, 650,

what you've learned in the last 72 hours in sports. But one thing that I've learned, recently reach is that Calgary's Nazam-Cadry a little miffed to not be in the picture for Canada's Olympic roster coming up in February. Now, not that he's officially off the team or anything, but they are holding that three-day orientation camp in Calgary coming up next week, next week, excuse me, actually, August 26 to 28th

in Calgary. 40 players, I believe, 42 players invited to that So that kind of gives you like the long list of players, the pool of candidates that they're looking at. But Cadre was not on that list. Not one of them. So he's obviously very much on the outside looking in. And it's interesting, you don't often hear players be vocal at this stage of the process about it. There's been other situations where once the team is selected, you'll hear maybe a player will have some thoughts about how disappointed they are, how they disagree with the decision.

You know, famously Phil Kessel tweeting about how he thought he had something to do that night as he was sitting. at home watching the game. But it's interesting to hear Codry already kind of campaigning publicly or making his case publicly that, hey, I would really love to have a shot at making this team and that he thinks he's earned it as well.

I mean, he had 35 goals last year. And we all know what Codry's done in his career and, of course, peaking with that incredible season in Colorado, helping them win the cup. He was a huge part of that team. He's still very, very productive. He's also 34. And the problem is,

I don't want to sound like I'm burying Nazim Kodry as a player here because I think he's a really good player. And I think he could absolutely help a ton of NHL teams. If we were talking about pretty much any other national team with the exception of maybe the United, the United States, you'd be looking at Kodry and saying, oh, yeah, he's going to be there. They'll be there for sure. You have to take him.

35 goals in the NHL, yeah. It's just, it's team Canada. And he plays center. He plays the position that team Canada is always absolutely flush with. And so, more like, Nazim Codry not being one of the 42 names invited to this orientation camp. It doesn't tell us a lot about Codry. It just tells us much more about

how good Team Canada is going to be and how deep down the middle they are. It's an embarrassment of riches and Codry saying the quote that's that's gone around is he deserves a chance and I think he's hopeful given that, you know, his age

maybe this is his, he knows this is his last chance that may be making and really, you know, his only chance given where we've been with the Olympics over the last 10 years in professional hockey players. So he's looking at it. I scored 35 goals last year. I've won a Stanley Cup.

I play the kind of gritty game that Team Canada wants more of, but really it's just too deep of a depth chart. And as good as Cadre has been, and as good as he was for the Calgary Flames last year, for you to even I hate to sound so

disrespectful to the player, but to even be on the race. Radar is a big ask for Nazim Kodry at the center position because, okay, you've got McKinnon, McDavid, Crosby, Bennett, Point, Sorrelli. Those are guys that were all on the team last year, right? Guys who didn't make it. Nick Suzuki, Mark Schifley, Rob Thomas, Wyatt Johnston. I mean, Connor Bedard and Macklin Celebris.

as a couple of the next guys as well. Bo Horvatt, not on the list. And he is at training camp here, orientation camp, with Team Canada. Some other younger players, like an Adam Fantili, is, you know, should be on the radar, too, I think. Cadry is like, even in a conservative conversation, he's like fringe top ten to be in this bubble, in this hopeful conversation. that he could make Team Canada and it's not a knock on cadre it's just where we're at with Team Canada

and I think the better conversation is like if somebody were to come off the roster who would actually be the ones that could take that spot from somebody that was on that Four Nations Club because they've already named right the first six I think five of them were forwards and then Cail McCar as the defenseman

as well and so but beyond that there's a bunch of guys like I don't think Marner was on that list Marner's going to be on the team right you know there's there's people who are locks beyond the five forwards who have been named already for Team Canada. The question is going to be how much turnover is there from the victorious Four Nations team to this edition. Look, they won at Four Nations. A lot of those guys are in the prime of their careers. There's going to be the temptation to just roll with as close to that group as possible.

Having said that, I think there are some pretty obvious potential turnover spots as well. like I look at Mark Stone and just with his age and his injury history, I love the player. Yeah. We know how much Team Canada values the speed element as well, though. Mark Stone started high up in the lineup at Four Nations, but maybe had some difficulties keeping up with the play and keeping up with the speed and skill at the top of the lineup for Canada. I would be a little surprised if Mark Stone figures into it for Team Canada. Travis Kineckney, really good player, but I don't, I wouldn't look at him and say, oh, he's a lock for sure.

Same with Seth Jarvis. I'm really fascinated to see what happens with Brad Marshawn if he vetoes the trade The playoff that he just had If he vetoes the trade to Florida I think we're all

And he plays out the rest of the string With Boston I think we're all sitting here saying He's off the team Yeah Then he goes to Florida And he performs in the playoffs Like he does

And everything we've heard From Team Canada Going back to the Four Nations Roster Building process Is we want big game players But even in the Four Nations He wasn't very good Well I don't know

I kind of liked what he did In a small role A small role, I guess, but I think we would have been sitting here for sure saying he's probably coming off the roster. Now, if I had to bet right now, I probably bet that he's going to be there. Yeah, with what we saw at the Stanley Cup playoffs. I mean, a lot, I guess some will be, get decided in the first couple of months of the season, what we see, who's going to really announce themselves to this roster. I, you know, do Celebrini and Connor Bedard have an inside track. I think Badard's got a lot of work to do. I think they both have a lot of work to do, to be perfectly honest. Celebrini showed enough of a two-way game that it's possible and he was at the World Championship, so you got to see a little bit of it there. But that really takes into account that guys like Horvatt, Suzuki, Rob Thomas, aren't already ahead of those younger players on the Depp chart.

And, you know, are you really going to throw one of those young guys a bone when you have Thomas, Suzuki, Horvatt, as options? to go to Team Canada. I think Celebrini or Bidard would have to be on like a 100 point place at least to be in the conversation. Like if their point per game in December, that's not good enough to jump over some of the vets who have been in these big games. Yeah. Like point per game for a bad Blackhawks team or a bad shark's team. That's a great step for their careers.

Don't get me wrong. But that's not enough to shake up the hierarchy of Team Canada at the Olympics. Like they have to be truly special, truly special offensively to crack this. roster. If we're talking player most likely to make the team forward anyways that wasn't on the team for the four nations, I actually think

there's a very obvious name that's maybe flying under the radar a little bit. And I think it's Robert Thomas from St. Louis. And you just start to go down and check the boxes of what he provides for the team. First of all, his GM and St. Louis is putting the team together. Yeah. You always have to factor that in. We saw how

the Tampa guys got a little bit of a boost from John Cooper being the coach and a lot of them made the team so you always have to factor that in but robert thomas again i think he flies a little bit under the radar incredibly productive in in his uh in his career you know 81 points in 70 games last season i think he had 86 in 82 the year before that so he puts up points he's a right passers in all the hot one of the best playmakers he's a right shot center he takes a ton of faceoffs he wins a ton of faceoffs we don't think of him as like an elite two-way player but he kills penalties. He can more of an handle his own in that regard. It's just knowing how team Canada

puts these things together. He won a cup as a young player with the St. Louis Blues. You think, okay, who do they want on the as potentially playing on the fourth line? A right shot guy who can win faceoffs, who produces a ton offensively, but can also be relied on in a defensive role who has big game experience. That's Robert Thomas. Yeah. Like that's goal. I would be legitimate, I think I would, if I was setting the odds, I would have it like even money that Robert Thomas is on the team. I just think he's, people are sleeping on how perfectly his profile fits what team Canada is going to be looking for. It's, uh, it is a great point because, I mean, Suzuki had 89 points last year. He had the 30 goals. It was his breakout year as well for the Montreal

Canadians, at least offensively. We know he could play on the defensive side of the puck. I think it comes down to one of those two guys realistically, maybe Wyatt Johnston or Bo Horvac can announce themselves into a bigger part of the conversation if they really start the season well. But Thomas, I don't know if it's kind of his generic name, but people are just, I don't know why he's so under rate. I think you're right, though, there is. It's like, who's that guy? Robert Thomas, just very generic name.

I don't know. It's kind of like John Smith or something like that. Robert, like, kind of generic name, but really not a generic hockey player. And, you know, even this year when he, what, he broke his foot and he comes back a couple of months later, not even, only misses 12 games of the season. I mean, he's got a lot of those intangibles that you would want. A couple of texts coming in on this at 650, 650. Codry's got intangibles, grit meanness that would balance out the team.

Tyler, how about the fact that Codry is a wild card? So why would you want him out of country? You know, that's one of the things about Cadry, too. And I know he sort of put it to bed during the Colorado Cup run, but, man, there was a lot of playoff suspensions because he crossed the line with his grit, meanness, and sandpaper. And for as much as Sam Bennett has that as well, and you really appreciate that with Sam Bennett, he might push the envelope, but he hasn't crossed the line enough to warrant the suspensions that Codry. has had that essentially, you know, hurt the Leafs a ton early on in their, you know, this current era of the Leafs and even that first go around with Colorado when they had cup opportunities, you know, he got a suspension with them as well. So, you know, that's something

you can't just completely put aside for Codry. I do have to say, though, I feel like for those players who are kind of habitual envelope pushers and maybe cross the line sometimes. Line stepers? Yeah, doesn't it feel like they mostly tamp it down in the Olympics? Like, There's something about, okay, I'm wearing the team candidate jersey now. Like, I know where the line is. Yeah. I'm not going to. Well, the line's considerably lower in the Olympics than it is even in a four

nation's face off. Especially if you're all of a sudden, you're in a fourth line role, right? And I think that's kind of inherent to a lot of hockey players. Like, you know you have a little bit more leash. Yeah. If you're playing at the top of the lineup than if you're playing on the fourth line. So that wouldn't necessarily keep me from naming cadre to the team if I thought the rest of the resume lined up for him.

to make it i mean we've heard tom wilson could be in the next right and certainly there so when the texture says all he could bring that that grit and that meanness i mean they've got sam bennett yeah you know they had grit up and down the lineup i would say it's fair to say not the big prototypical like massive body like tom wilson who's going to punish you but like brandon haggles a super gritty player sorelli points gritty like you go down the list these are tough players even if they're not the biggest guys i i have no problem of wanting to bring that element of grit and meanness but it's just the question is how much upside are you going to sacrifice? And I think that's my sticking point of Tom Wilson too. Like show me who the player that you're taking Tom Wilson over. I'd probably

rather go for the higher offensive skill than Tom Wilson. No disrespect to him and what he can do. Now, Rob and Surrey makes a good point here. I think you guys are forgetting that the Olympic rosters will have 25 players, not 23 like the Four Nations rosters had. That's a good point. So I'm saying like Robert Thomas could he bump someone off? Technically, there's going to be opportunities for players to make the team without even bumping anyone off. So we do have to kind of expand the lists of people we're talking about here a little bit. There's going to be a lot of players in the mix for these teams. But I just don't think the intangibles argument is going to be enough to close the gap for

Anasem-Cadry. It's going to be an uphill climb for Codry, as he knows. He deserves a chance. Like, yeah, you deserve a chance. You played really well this year. It's just, what are we going to do? We've got a lot of really good hockey players. Mike and Animo, Suzuki over Thomas all day, captain of a Canadian team.

These are going to be fun conversations that we have throughout the course of the year and easy ways to fill content through the rest of the summer. Which is the most important thing. I actually find this fascinating, though, too. And this is one of the reasons I'm most excited for international hockey to come back is now that it's a regular part of the calendar, I think players are very aware of how much making these teams. teams and getting these opportunities and performing in them impacts, you know, for lack of a

better term, their legacy and their profile on how they're viewed around the league. And last week when Josh and I were doing the show, NHL Network released a list of their top 20 defensemen right now. And I think Thomas Harley was 13 and Jake Sanderson was 12. And my, which fair enough, the great young defenseman, don't get me wrong. My immediate reaction was there's no way those guys are that high if they don't have star turns at the four nations. Yeah. Zero chance. And I think we're already seeing, and you know this from, you know, following European soccer and international soccer, right? What you do on the big stage playing for your country, that has an outsized importance.

That sticks in people's minds, right? And I think what we're seeing from Nazim Kadri is a recognition that he views himself as an elite player in the NHL still. He's like, hey, I scored 35 goals. But if you're not figuring into your national team's conversation, if you're not getting those opportunities, the rest of the hockey world might not view you that way. think that's going to be fascinating to monitor just how much the prestige and the recognition matters to these players to say as a as an extra bullet point on the resume to say yeah by the way

I'm also a part of team Canada like that's a big big deal and I think we're already seeing how much weight it holds I even wonder and I look at Mitch Martin or going to Vegas and you know there's so much talk of hey could Chicago offer him you know two years at 20 million per to come how does that impact your chances of making team Canada? Yeah. Because what do they say? Hey, we want guys who are playing in big games, guys who are winners.

If you go to a situation where they're giving you more money, but you're not going to make the playoffs, does that take you out of the mix? Now, Marner probably not, but players more on the fringe of the roster, it could. So I think it's fascinating to see, one, how much it means to these guys. And I'm also curious to see,

is it going to start affecting where they decide to go? Their decisions on, okay, I want to go to a place where I know I can be in the playoffs, not just because I want to win, but I want to get the best chance I have of making my national team as well. And when you're talking about Team Canada, we're talking about splitting hairs, right? You know, like the Rob Thomas versus Nix Suzuki conversation. You can't just go to the stat sheet and be like, well, 89 points versus 80 points, right?

That's not going to be enough of a breaking point to make you, allow you to make that decision. You have to go deeper than that. And we've seen, as you mentioned, Thomas win in the Stanley Cup final, even if he was more of a lesser role earlier in his career. Suzuki still looking for that opportunity. We saw what he did in the playoffs this year. Can he build on that this season? All of these parts of the conversation are huge. And ultimately, I think we tend to, or in the past, there's been moments clearly where Team Canada has overthought some of these decisions. And that's when we've gotten into trouble. You know, the Rob Saminers of the world and the Brian McCabe's making Team Canada. Chris Draper. Yeah, Chris Draper is making Team Canada.

It's like, I see what you're doing. I understand your logic and the theory behind it, but ultimately just pick the most talented and best players you possibly can. And I think that's going to be more of a discussion point on defense. Like, I know it worked at the four nations with what they had, but do they look at Bouchard being an option? And maybe less so with the Travis Sandheims of the world. How do they go about building out the rest of the back end at the Olympic?

is going to be the other conversation. I think that's where the bigger rosters is going to really come into play as well, specifically with Evan Bouchard. If there's anyone who should be so thankful that there's two extra players going compared to the Four Nations, it's Evan Bouchard.

Because then you can take him basically as at least Kale McCarr insurance. Like, hey, if Kail McCar gets injured and we need a power play quarterback, okay, we're going to bring in Evan Bouchard. And I know if the team is announced and he's on it from everywhere outside Alberta and Canada,

there's going to be a lot of hair pulling and eye rolling. I'm like, why do you mean this? I'm in Bouchard, right? They have the space,

and I think there is going to be a recognition that, you know what, we can afford to take him, even if he's not suiting up every game, keep him as an extra. And if something happens,

heaven forbid, to Kail McCar, we can bring him in. And just to your point about not overthinking it for Team Canada, I have been really heartened by some of what I've seen

from Doug Armstrong. They gave an interview to NHL.com, I believe earlier in the summer, and he basically said, yeah, speed and skill. that's what we're looking for like speed and skill and you know what the top players

they're actually a lot of them do kill penalties so you don't need to look for the penalty killing specialist because guess what robert thomas can kill penalties sam bennett can kill penalties sam rhinart isn't one at only defensive players so you can actually if you're building team can't have your cake and eat it too you can take most of the best offensive producers you have and guess what they're going to be really good two-way players too and mark stone's defensive ability isn't uh essentially a deciding factor for him to be on team canada anymore even though you know he has been one of the best defensive players, defensive wingers in his career. Is he still that at this age? That's more of the question mark. Brandon and Poco with a great text.

What we learned, uh, I'm an early one. I'm not sure Rob Thomas would be a good addition to team Canada. I would go with Eddie Vedder. Well, matchbox 20 versus Pearl Jam, uh, discussion. I feel like, um, Pearl Jam takes that one pretty easily. Yeah. Yeah, not a, not a tough decision. Maybe five matchbox 20 songs. You can't. Can not do it. You can't. Push. smooth smooth that's just Rob Thomas yeah that's just Rob Thomas Henry Ray with Santana

did he do like the remember there was that movie about like the Angels was that meant that had a song a theme song I want to have to elaborate I want to say it was with Nicholas Cage 3am

I think that was another one it was on big shiny tunes I think wasn't it yeah big shiny tunes had 3 am on that's that's my matchbox that's about a knowledge right now City of Angels okay what was the theme song

from City of Angels, and was it by Matchbox 20? Possibly. That was in the era where every movie had like a 20 song soundtrack that you could go buy at HMV, and like only two of the songs were actually in the movie. And I was like, what is this? How do they, there's like songs inspired by City of Angels. What does that mean? I think it was, I think you're getting the Goo Goo Goo Dolls. Ah, Guoo Dolls. Matchbox 20. That was the Goo Goo Goo Dolls. Of course it was. Yes. Anyways, what a track. Iris. How could you mix those two up? I know. Come on, Jay. They're so distinct. It is Halford and Brough. We're going into the last hour here. We'll chat more Nazim Khadry and also some Ottawa senators with Julian McKenzie from the athletic next.

And then, of course, we will roll into what we learned. So send those texts in, hashtag WWL, what you've learned in the last 72 hours in sports. It is Halford and Brough on SportsNet 650. Hey, it's Big Nazar. Have your say and join me on the people's show with big takes and even bigger bets. weekdays 3 to 4 on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcast.