Halford & Brough in the Morning - Bonding Over Sports Sadness

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with Pittsburgh Baseball Now's John Perrotto on what it's been like covering a losing team for 37 years, plus they speak to Vancouver Giants bench boss Manny Viveiros, as his club's new season is now underway. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

702 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for.

Sales, financing, service, four parts. We are in hour two of the program. Hour two is brought to you by Jason Hominuk from Jason.Mortgage. If you love paying too much money for your mortgage, definitely don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio.

Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Sophie, what are you waiting for? Kintec. What are you waiting for? Kintec. What are you waiting for? Kintec. So dramatic. Speaking of... I'm getting frustrated.

I read this every day, and people are still waiting. What are you waiting for? Come on. The monotony. For God's sake. Over and over and over. Get off the couch. The reads just get angrier and angrier.

Like, come on. God. Okay, so we mentioned this prior to going on a break. Covering a team that doesn't win is kind of a signature of the Halford & Brough show. He's made it into a Twitter handle and, dare I say, a personality. And then we saw this the other day on Twitter.

Kudos to Laddie for bringing it up. Our next guest has been covering the Pittsburgh Pirates. 37 seasons. Seven winning seasons. I covering the Pittsburgh Pirates. 37 seasons. Seven winning seasons. I did the math. That means 30 losing seasons and not a single postseason series win. Joining us now from Pittsburgh Baseball Now,

John Prado here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, John. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you guys? We're good. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Hello, brother. Solidarity handshake. I'm doing well. How are you guys? We're good. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Hello, brother. Yeah. Solidarity handshake. The reason that your tweet jumped out to us so much was because we very closely follow and cover a team here in Vancouver that's never won the Stanley Cup. Never won the Stanley Cup. And it's become sort of the identity of the show.

We've been close a few times, but never won. Sure have. Just never got it over the hump to actually win the Stanley Cup. And then we saw this and we're like, wow, look at this. 37 years in the books. I like this. I may be the losingest baseball writer in history.

And I noticed the tweet kind of took off, John. So walk us through being potentially the losingest baseball writer in history. Well, it's kind of a long and unstoried history here, but I will try to condense it the best I can. I began covering the Pirates in 1988 and actually had a winning season. It was three years after the franchise had almost moved to Denver, and the mayor of Pittsburgh put together a public-private coalition

that raised enough money to buy the team and keep it in Pittsburgh. And then they won division titles from 90 to 92, so four of my seven winning seasons came in my first five years on the beat. So actually, since then, it's been three out of 32. And they had 20 losing seasons after that through 2012, which remains the record for most consecutive losing seasons for any of the four major North American professional sports. Then they had a good spurt where they had three winning years in 13, 14, and 15,

went to the playoffs, but didn't win any series. And since then, they've had one winning season, and they just wrapped up their eighth consecutive losing season. So it's been a lot of losses. So I remember those early 90s teams because at the time, the Blue Jays were world series contenders and they actually won the world series in 92 and 93 and they nearly played the pittsburgh pirates in some of those years and those were the pittsburgh pirates teams with barry bonds and bobby benia and

andy van slike and they were they were they were really good teams ultimately, uh, ended up losing, I guess, to Atlanta one year in the NLCS, but I remember those being close. So what happened since then? Is this just a team that hasn't spent enough? Is it a team that hasn't developed enough? Um, what is the story of the Pittsburgh Pirates since those days of the early 90s? Pretty much a combination of the two. It's funny you mention that in 92, the Pirates had a 2-0 lead in the ninth inning of Game 7 of the NLCS in Atlanta. The Braves ended up scoring three in the bottom of the ninth and winning, and

the Pirates and Blue Jays would open the World Series. It then was known as Sky Dome a couple of days later. I remember my last act of business after I filed my last story that night was to cancel my flight and my hotel room in Toronto. So that's the Blue Jays' connection with the Pirates. But as far as your question, both. It's bad ownership. You know, the previous owner here, Kevin McClatchy, was underfunded.

He kind of got pushed out in a power play by one of the minority owners in 2007, a man by the name of Bob Nutting, whose family made their fortune in the newspaper business. And they've kind of never spent to the level that they could. He's a billionaire. I mean, he's certainly one of the richer owners in Major League Baseball, but he does not believe in spending, having large payrolls, and he thinks that they can win by player development and scouting but he does not believe in spending, having large payrolls,

and he thinks that they can win by player development and scouting and winning with younger and cheaper players. But the problem there is their player development and their scouting has been very good for quite a long time. So hence, between not spending money and not developing players, you end up having mediocre rosters and a lot of 75 and 87 seasons. So surely with all this losing, I'm looking at some recent seasons. I mean, 2021, 61 wins, 2022, 62 wins. I mean, last few years, I suppose, have been an improvement. They're all the way up to 76 wins.

Surely with all this losing, the owner must be losing millions of dollars every year, right? Well, he made a profit of $66 million last year in Forbes magazine. So, yeah, it's tough to only make that much money. money but that and that's what really i mean obviously pirate fans in pittsburgh and in their surrounding area have a lot of reasons to to not like bob nutting the owner but that is the toughest one of all for them to swallow that they made the biggest operating profit in major league baseball last year now i mean obviously that you don't have access to the official numbers in the commissioner's office. But, I mean, Forbes has been around almost 100 years and is considered, you know, the premier financial magazine in the United States. So I think when they publish these figures, I don't think it's just a wild guess.

I think they have pretty good knowledge of what they're talking about. And again, $66 million to put a team on the field. They won 76-86 last year. So he's doing okay. I don't think he's going to have to schlep it and try to beg for a free meal

somewhere. Is it the revenue-sharing model that makes a team like they're almost like a zombie company, you know, like they just keep going, but they're making money and there are similar criticisms lob at another team, uh, in our area, the Seattle Mariners, who have never even been to a world series, let alone one, one. Um, and I, I see similarities because I see really nice stadiums that you would like to go

to just to enjoy the ballpark experience. You know, it's not Tampa. It's not, you know, it's, it's, it's a nice stadium. It's a nice day that you go out there. And also this revenue sharing model that almost guarantees a profit as long as you keep your salary restricted and low enough.

So what's the solution for teams like the Pirates? And I'll throw the Mariners in there as well. I think the solution would be to have a salary floor and a salary cap uh major league baseball is the only one of the four major sports i mean you know obviously nhl has it the nba was the first sport to have it and then the nfl also has it now too a salary cap but also they need a salary floor and that is kind of where the owners where the the players are adamant. If you want us to have a salary cap, then you've got to have a salary floor, too, so you don't have teams like the Pirates or the Mariners. I mean, or some of the other, you know, you can go down other lists of teams

with lower payrolls year in and year out, the Tampa Bay Rays, the Baltimore Orioles. Until recently, they started spending more money. But teams like that, they end up at the bottom of the standings most years. And the players want a floor. They don't want teams saying, well, we're not going to spend to the cap and we're not going to win, so we're only going to spend $50 or $60 million on payroll rather than $150 or $160. And that's really the holdup.

The players really won't ever agree to a cap unless the owners agree to a floor. And the owners want it both ways. They want to have a salary cap, but they don't want to have a salary floor. So that makes it, in the players' estimation, you know, unequitable and just something they won't agree to. Does Bob Nutting care? Like, is he embarrassed by this, or does he just enjoy making millions of dollars

and the price that he's going to pay is that he's going to be publicly criticized? Well, he rarely avails himself to the public. He rarely avails himself to the media. We may get him to talk to us for 15 minutes in spring training once a year, and that's always kind of a happy talk because it's right at the beginning of spring training and everyone's optimistic and everyone thinks this is the year they're going to win. So he's never to be found when they have 100-loss season, kind of a post-mortem or anything like that.

In fact, this year there was a lot of question whether they would bring back Ben Charrington, the general manager, or Derek Shelton, the manager, after having the same record as last year. We've all asked if we'd be able to find out from him what their status is, and he's declined to talk to the media, which is really kind of funny since his family made their money in the newspaper business. He would think he would be media-friendly, but he's not. And so to make a long answer short here, I don't know. He says when we do talk to him that he does, but his actions say otherwise.

And nobody ever seems upset in the Pirate front office or the manager. It's like, well, we're the Pirates. We're going to lose, so why lose any sleep over it? That's the impression I'm left with. And like I said, I've been here the whole time to his ownership and long before that. What's the market like? Is there still passion for the team? Or has apathy set in and they set their sights on

what the Penguins are doing or what the Steelers are doing? Well, you know, they definitely are number three in this market. The Steelers will always be number one one regardless if they're good or bad and they haven't had a losing season in 17 or 18 years now you know the penguins uh really ever since they they won their first cups in the early 90s they they've been a very popular team and they've really had a pretty good run of success, you would say, in the last 30-some years. And, you know, they've had premier players, be it Mary Elamu or Kenny Malkin or Sidney Crosby or, you know, Chris Letang, or you go back to the early 90s, Paul Coffey and people like that.

So they always have that star power that make people want to come out to the arena, come out to the rink and watch a game. The Pirates don't have that star power, but they do have passionate fans. They really do. And if the Pirates are even remotely competitive, they will draw good crowds. And they were competitive this year. Through the end of July, they were only two games out of the last wild card spot

then they lost 10 games in a row in august in early august and that was the end of that the crowds dwindled down to nothing but people want to go when they win and they haven't won much but like when they won in 13 14 and 15 they they made the wild card game each year they drew really well they were selling out on weekends, getting $25,000, $30,000 a night on weeknights. So people want a winner here, but they're just disgusted with the owner to the point where a lot of people

just feel like they're throwing their money away if they go to the ballpark and just making him richer. I gotta ask you, in light of name-checking all those great players that have played in Pittsburgh across the sports, how does Paul Skeen's explosion onto the scene play into all this? Because I've got to imagine there's some people that are excited about having this maybe generational pitching prospect,

but then some other people that approach it with trepidation because it's like, well, we're either going to lose him or trade him at some point anyway. Well, he did definitely bring excitement. I mean, he had a tremendous year. He was 11-3, had an ERA under 2. You know, he averaged, I did the figuring on this, the Pirates averaged about 9,000 more a game in attendance

when he started this year. So he definitely was a drawing card, and he definitely generated a lot of interest and a lot of excitement and a lot of enthusiasm. But to your point, you do have that certain percentage of fans who are already like, okay, well, when's he going to be with the Yankees? Okay, when's he going to pitch for East from Los Angeles? He'll probably end up with the Dodgers in four or five years.

So, yeah, there's almost like that fatalistic approach from some of the fan base, like, let's enjoy him now because as soon as he starts to make some money, he'll be gone. Given that you've covered the team for nearly 40 years, where does he rank among the best pitching prospects that you've seen? But,

you know, I think one of the best I've seen in baseball in all the times I've been covering it, and certainly the Pirates' best pitching prospect, I would say, and this isn't hype, Barry Bonds broke in. I know he's not a pitcher, but he broke into the big leagues in 86. And I was kind of a part-time sidebar-ish type writer at the time.

I didn't cover the team on a daily basis, but I was around at some. Bonds' debut in 86 was a big deal, and Skeens was even bigger than that. But I would say there hasn't been a player with the Pirates who made his debut since Bonds that generated nearly this much hype. And it was definitely pitching prospect-wise, he's the best pitching prospect they've had in all my years covering the team. Well, John, I want to thank you for taking the time to do this today. We really appreciate it.

Hopefully Skeens can hang around for a while and maybe get you that elusive playoff series victory. That would sure be nice. We do love the city and we do love the stadium. We've been there a few times when the Penguins were in the Stanley Cup final and we always got out

to the baseball stadium to watch a game because it is a terrific place. Well, thank you. Like I always say, I've had cancer and I've had open heart surgery. I'm not living forever,

so I hope we get on it pretty soon here. Hopefully. Wow. I really want them to get on it now. John, thanks for joining us. I feel a certain kinship with you.

Hang in there and you never know. That's why we keep watching, right? Absolutely. As long as those checks don't bounce, I'm okay with it. Thanks, John. Appreciate this. John Prado from Pittsburgh Baseball Now. Thanks a lot. I really enjoyed it. John Prado from Pittsburgh Baseball Now here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. How much baseball did you watch yesterday i watched a little bit of the padres closing it out at night so not a lot so like obviously as a diehard brewers guy and you know yeah that was disappointing for you yeah that was tough yeah in addition to learning

one of the tougher losses in your milwaukee brewers fandom it was a tough day because in addition to learning everybody that was on the Milwaukee Brewers, I had to watch them lose 8-4 to the Mets. I am low-key kind of interested to see if the Mets can keep this improbable, magical run going. Because they're on a collision course with the Phillies, right? That's

kind of what everyone's talking about. That would be an awesome series. It would be. And Phillies... What about another Mets-Yankees World Series? Yeah, that would... I mean, let's not go too far down the road. But we were talking about Yankees-Dodgers possible World Series. Yeah. That's because the Dodgers have the, you know, they're sitting there just waiting for, although the Padres looked good yesterday as well.

My God, what a performance from Michael King on the hill yesterday. My buddy, Chez, diehard Padres fan. Go off, King. So they've got a really good bullpen, and it's mostly like, can we just get it into these guys' hands and we'll be all right? Well, King did more than that. I think he struck out 12 guys,

and the Braves just had no chance after that. The relief pitching was so good, and they had so many different options that they could throw at them that it was done after seven, I would say. It was done and dusted would say it was it was done and dusted don't you think the majority of teams in the postseason have a pretty compelling story behind them right like if you're talking about yankees obviously cleveland that's a compelling story the dodgers just because of their star power and the fact that they really have underachieved

in terms of world series titles in the last few years. Yep. Philly, I think Philly's cool just because the atmosphere at their stadium. Well, the guys that they've got on the team. Yeah, yeah, but it's just like watching a game, even if you're watching it on TV when it's in Philly, it's cool. The Mets, you know, the turnaround that they had to make the playoffs. I'll tell you.

That's compelling. Hold on tell you. That's compelling. Hold on a sec. Milwaukee's compelling because they're your team. And, you know, and similarly with, I would say, San Diego and I guess Cleveland, which I already mentioned, like these are kind of long-suffering fan bases that if they were to win a World Series, it would be a huge deal.

You know, the teams that I don't really have much time for, I guess, like Houston, get out of there. I'm just tired of you. Detroit, buddy. Detroit is the team to watch there. Well, that's Laddie's team, although I feel like that's cheating on the Blue Jays in a way. No, that wasn't a lie for any of the 80s.

I know. They're not in the same division anymore, but I still feel like as an old Jays fan, I was like, I hate the Tigers. That was the Tigers' first playoff win in 10 years. Right? And they had no business being in the playoffs. They were so far out of it.

The late season surge was great, but I thought that they would be one of those teams that would have emptied the tank to get in and then might have fallen out. But that's the thing with the wild card is you can carry over it. Like we saw, you can carry over that late season momentum. And all you got to do is squeak two wins.

That's it. Right. And then maybe you'll get exposed in a best of seven. But the wild card is very much a momentum thing. Like the Mets kind of ran it from the end of their regular season as well. Right. The best part of the Tigers, too, is that you look at their roster. There's nobody on there.

Like other than Tarek's screwball at their roster. There's nobody on there. Other than Tarek's screwball at the top. Screwball, yeah. Screwball. The old screwball. There's really nothing. You look at their hitting. Sounds exciting, though. I think they had two guys with 20 home runs.

There's no one there. That game was exciting, though. The ending of that game was really exciting. It's this kind of part of the year where those types of teams can step up and win games, and it's exciting because it's unexpected. When was the last real, like two big dogs going at it in the world series? Was it the Red Sox and the Dodgers?

Uh, yeah. 2018 because then, okay, I'm going to go through them. The next one was Washington and Houston. Um, and then it was Dodgers,

Tampa, Tampa. Like, yeah, it was Atlanta, Houston, Houston, Philly, Houston, Philly was good. And then it was Atlanta, Houston, Houston, Philly. Houston, Philly was good.

And then last year, it was the Rangers winning their first World Series over Arizona. Houston, Philly was good because Houston was the creme de la creme. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. There were good storylines there. But I'm just talking about like big dog markets. Like we're talking about we could have New York versus New York, or we could have New York versus LA.

Yep, New York. There hasn't been a big game seven in the World Series since 2017. Yeah, it's been a long time. It was Dodgers-Astros. There was a game seven when the Nationals won it, but who remembers when the Nationals won it? Really? Probably Nationals fans. Okay, we've got a lot more to get to

on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Coming up on the other side, we're going to dive into the Western Hockey League. Head coach of the Vancouver Giants, Manny Viveros, is going to join us on the program. At 8 o'clock, we're going to do what we learned, so we're going to talk to Brett Festerling, former NHLer,

now the Canucks color analyst for Sportsnet 650. We'll talk to him about all the moves that the Canucks made on their roster, getting it closer and closer to opening night. In the next segment, after we talk to Manny, we'll have a bit of an open segment, so if you want to text any questions or comments into the Dunbar Lumber text line, 650-650

is the number. The Bridge Street, Dunbar Lumber, and Ladner has moved progress way in Tilbury's Industrial Park. More room, more product, more awesome. Details at DunbarLumber.com. has moved to Progress Way in Tilbury's Industrial Park. More room, more product, more awesome. Details at DunbarLumber.com. So any questions or comments you have, possibly about the Vancouver Canucks and the decisions they've got to make

over the next couple of days. They start the regular season next Wednesday. Their final preseason game is Friday. So it is really getting down to it for the Canucks. And before we go to break, I need to tell you about the BC Lions. The roar is back at BC Place for the BC Lions 70th season. Get your tickets now at bclions.com. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance.

Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. 731 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Pacific Honda, North Vancouver's premier destination for Honda vehicle sales and service. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for,

sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour two of the program. Hour two is brought to you by Jason Hominuk from Jason.Mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, keep doing it. Don't let Jason shop around to find you the perfect mortgage. Just kidding. You should definitely get a hold of him. Visit him at Jason.Mortgage.

Let's go to the phone lines now. We are joined by the head coach of the Vancouver Giants, Manny Viveros, here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Manny. How are you? Morning, guys. I'm doing fine. Thank you. Thanks for taking the time to do this. We appreciate it. So you've got your fourth game of the season this Friday against Kamloops at the Langley Events Center. You guys are 2-1 to start the season over those three games. You were a 4-3 win over Seattle, another win over Everett, then a loss to Prince George last Friday, 6-3.

But as I understand it, it was a good rally from being 4-0 down. You guys cut it to 4-3 before a couple of empty netters sealed the deal. Walk us through your thoughts on the first three games of your season. Well, no, certainly really pleased that when we started, we won our first two games and how we did it. We really, you know, a lot of our, all our NHL guys are still at camps. And so I was pretty, really happy the way, you know, some of the other players had stepped up and, you know,

with some increased ice time really came up and helped us get those two wins here. We had a bit of a hiccup against Prince George having our first game with our NHL players coming back from camp. But that's to be expected. That happens quite often when you get your guys back from NHL camps. There's a little bit of an adjustment period there, but we've had a really good week of practice here,

so we're hoping to rectify this on Friday. Tell us a bit about this Cameron Schmidt kid. Six goals in three games. That stands out on the score sheet. No, it certainly does. He's been pretty dynamic. Cameron has done a really good job this year. Obviously, he's going to be under everybody's radar

on the opposition, so they're playing him really hard. And I really like the way Cameron's responding and dealing with that type of extra workload that he's, you know, the top teams are keying on to the top matchups, and he's done a real remarkable job with that and obviously when he has the pockets he's really dynamic not the biggest guy um is he does he

have the type of frame that is going to allow him to to put on weight i'm just wondering you know if he keeps scoring like this obviously there's going to be talk about where he's going to go in the nhl draft what does he need to do in order to move his way up that draft? Well, you know, guys, as far as strength-wise and size-wise, Cameron, pound for pound, the testing that we do with our groups, his explosive power is, I think it's 1 or 2 on our team. It's right off the charts. His quick twitch explosive power is outstanding,

and it reminds me when I was with the Oilers, and again, this is not a comparison by any means here, but there was another guy who had world-class explosive power on these tests that they do, his Conor McDavid. Cameron has, I'm not saying he has Conor McDavid speed but he certainly has next level speed and the separation speed so as far as being you know they say so to speak undersized and undersized NHL wise he's he's got he's got some some strength and some power to him too so he's not a kid that if he goes into a corner sometimes and if there's going to be contact,

a lot of times he's ending up on the positive side of that too. So that part I'm not worried about. And as a 17-year-old, he's just going to continue to get stronger and stronger too. So some of the stuff that he has naturally, physically, he has already, which is remarkable. The only thing, like anything, a young man at that age is that we're trying to teach him. What Cameron does with the puck

is outstanding and that's something that a lot of it just comes natural. But for me it's a lot of things for the young kids going to that next level. He was always playing away from the puck in that 200-foot game here. Cameron has done a real good job this year. We challenged him at the end of last

season. Coming back, this is an area that you need to work on. And he really embraced it and done a remarkable job so far. Hey, Manny, this is something we've been talking about on the show. And we often make fun of ourselves for having no ability to focus on anything for more than three minutes. I don't know if we're on our phones too much or it's just the nature of our business. We're constantly on social media. We got TVs in the studio.

So Halford is constantly distracted by the TVs. Ooh, baseball. Yeah, like he's watching baseball highlights right now. No offense, Manny. That's what he does. I'm doing the same thing right now. He gets it. When you're coaching kids, like is it when you when you're when you're coaching kids like is it you know we were

talking about a few of the Canucks and you know Daniel Sprong's name came up as a guy that it seems like sometimes his challenge is staying in the game when the puck's not on his stick he can kind of fall asleep for a second or two and if you fall asleep for a second or two in the NHL, you're going to get burned. How much of that do you talk about with the kids and just like staying in the game and making sure you have that focus? And is it harder now than it used to be? Oh, really good question.

I totally agree with your analogy. That's certainly a challenge for the young players, you know, coming from the CHL or college, going to the next level as far as American Hockey League. It's such a huge jump from these levels to the American Hockey League here. What I found

through my experience here is what separates these players or makes them stay at that next level. Not just stay, but thrive at that next level is exactly what you're talking about too. So these kids are all talent. They're coming from, you know,

a lot of these kids from the Western League or CHL, they're coming here and they're used to scoring maybe 50 or 60 goals at this level there. But that doesn't automatically translate, and very seldom does it translate to that next level in the American Hockey League. So you're going to get everybody bumping up to that next level who have that Hockey League. So you're going to get everybody bumping up to that next level

who have that capability at the level that they were the year before. But what separates you is your complete game. And that's something, you know, you look at the, you always model yourselves up to NHL hockey teams. You look at the complete teams and, you know, their core, their main core are some of the best two-way players in the world and that's why they're so successful here. So that's something that we try to help our players with from day one

and continue stressing that throughout there. I'm fortunate to have been at those levels where I've seen that firsthand and our kids really embrace it and they understand it and they try to really improve on it. Everybody wants to score goals. Everybody wants the flashy plays and stuff like that, but it's that complete game that's going to give you an opportunity for your team to win first and foremost at this level, but also get to that next level. Manny, when you start a season, do you have a theme to the season? Something that, whether it's a slogan or something that you you really want to

hammer home with the team and maybe you and the coaches get together and say okay these are the three things we're gonna we're gonna keep repeating um do you do something like that because sometimes it's just easier if you have you know it's almost like political propaganda you can get three short messages and you just keep repeating them over and over again hopefully you win some people over yeah no we surely do like we certainly uh you know this year having last year uh coming in so late just before the season last year and uh there certainly is a grace period from my part of getting to know the kids and getting to know the league again and having that full year under belt i really thought that towards the end of last season uh we were starting to create our

own identity within our group and stuff and obviously every year you have a different turnover like that but from day one or even the summertime we start talking with the kids uh periodically is that we're trying to get that message through and how we want to play and you know for one of the you know one of the words that we use is relentless puck pressure. That's something I think that we want to style ourselves after as far as a real hard forechecking team and a track

team that's always coming back. We don't want to sit back by any means. That's something that we've been driving home with our group. Especially in the starts and practices, a lot of our practices are those types of drills where we're relentlessly pursuing pucks and everything at over speed so to speak and uh our kids i can see since a month of training camp of how much they've improved in that area like that too but it is a mindset it takes time and

but i'm certainly encouraged by it is there any other way to play the game these days relentless puck pressure i see this at the minor hockey level 13 and 14 year olds and i'm shocked at how quick the game is and and how quickly you know they'll stop on pucks and and and and you know just be constantly moving out there you know i you know we all remember the days of the of the left wing lock or whatever it was you know when you know we all remember the days of the of the left wing lock or whatever it was you know when you're sitting back and and waiting for the team to come at you it doesn't seem like there are many teams that play that style anymore no i think if you do uh you know if you do play that kind of that old style there's always a bit of a blend in it and a mixture of everything also to the fine lines a fine line, certainly, though, but I think you get left

behind. And just, again, if you look at all the National Hockey League teams over the years, the one-style cups, that's probably one of their staples. The most of their group or their identity of their team is how they pursue the puck.

Florida was, last year, probably the best forechecking team in all of NHL last year, which obviously, you know, finished off with a Stanley Cup final or Stanley Cup championship. At Edmonton, the same thing. You know, there's speed

and, you know, there's, what do you call it, a collective connected group altogether, a group of five working together here. So I think that's something, the way the game's been trending over the last five or six years soon, I think it's, I think it's made the game that much better.

It's exciting. It really is exciting. There's always, the game is fast paced and that's the way I think it should be played. The kids must have to be in incredible shape to play that style. They are.

You know, the way the, well, you know, guys, there's an example itself, like, you example of going back even 10 years or how the kids have changed their training and how dialed in and professional they are at their training. These kids are off-season. They're spending it with qualified, high-end, off-ice trainers. These kids are coming into camp and they're fine-tuning their conditioning.

But for the most part, they're all coming in in excellent condition. We're speaking to Giants head coach Manny Viveros here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Manny, how closely are you following the work that your former captain, Sam Honzik, is doing at Calgary Flames camp in preseason thus far? Oh, yeah, we're watching all the time. We were really impressed and not surprised either. You know, Sam with us last year came off a pretty serious injury

when he came back from Calgary last year, and it took him a long time to get going. And then with the World Juniors and everything else, you know, for a long time it was a lot for him just to get settled in again. But he's had a full summer of training and get himself in great condition. It's one of the things I heard he came back in outstanding physical conditioning here. And what I like about more than anything right now is he looks like he's got his legs back. And we talk about a guy that, you know, he's going to make his money with his legs.

He does have that extra gear, that separation speed, so to speak, and there's something that if he continues to develop like that, he's going to be a pretty formidable player in the National Hockey League. And finally, before we let you go, Kamloops comes to town on Friday. For those listening, it's a 7 o'clock puck drop at the Langley Event Center. Let's set the stage for that one. What are you expecting from the Blazers on Friday. For those listening, it's a 7 o'clock puck drop at the Langley Events Center. Let's set the stage for that one. What are you expecting from the Blazers on Friday? Well, I just think everything

when we played them, I don't know how many times last year it was eight times for sure. They might have played them in the exhibition also too, but with their team and their identity they were last year in, I guess, a rebuild so to speak and they're going to be a pretty young team again, though.

But you would know the age with their group. That's how hard they compete every single night here. So whether we're playing there or here, we know we're in one every single night here. And if you're not ready to be prepared and get physical and skate, so to speak, then you could get left behind here. So it's always an exciting game against Kamloops. And it's certainly obviously a rivalry that's been built up over the years. Manny, we both checked our phones approximately

four times during this interview. We have a problem. We need coaching. Hopefully you can help us out with that one day. But thanks for taking the time to join us. Always fun to chat hockey with you. Good luck on Friday. Thanks guys. Always a pleasure.

Manny Viveros, head coach of the Western Hockey League's Vancouver Giants here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Yeah, the puck pursuit thing is obviously something that you want to ingrain in your team. If the puck's there, go get it. And in minor hockey, it is to watch a game with especially young kids

because all the parents, that's all they spend their time yelling, like, go get the puck, go get the puck. And a lot of the kids are like, I don't know, it's all the way over there. I'm probably not going to get to it, right? Well, it's funny you mentioned the floor. It's over there. Because they also don't understand that it's – they may not get the puck if they're the first

in there right but that's not really the point right right you you want to get it effect yeah you want to get in there you put you you put you put the pressure on the d-man and you don't give the d-man you know all sorts of time to skate it out or pass it out you put pressure on him and then maybe there's a wobbled pass to the winner, the center, whoever's on the breakout, and then your teammates get him. But for the kids, they're like, yeah, but I'm not going to get that puck if I'm first in there.

So I don't want to do that. That's too hard. It was a good point that he brought up about Florida last year. When you talk about what makes Florida elite, a lot of people will be like, well, they'll point to the players individually, right? They've got Matthew Kachuk and they've got Alexander Barkov

and then in that they've got Sergei Bobrovsky. But collectively, the thing that they... When they talk about suffocation and you suffocate an opponent, that's what the puck pursuit and the forecheck is.

You just don't allow them any time and space to be comfortable. And you're right. It's not necessarily the first man in turning the puck over, but it's just, it's this collective push. Whereas like we have no time and space ever.

Yeah. Cause they just keep, keep taking it away. And when we do find a bit of space, the next guy that uncovers that space, he has someone on him right away and it makes life very difficult. And Florida did it perfectly last year. It was the reason they were so dominant.

And when you'd watch these games, you would have opponents just struggling to do a proper breakout or try and – the effort for most teams came in getting the puck out of their own end, never mind trying to establish possession on the other end. And that's why in the playoffs it gets harder for puck-moving defensemen like Quinn Hughes. And don't you think we saw that in the playoffs it gets harder for puck-moving defensemen like Quinn Hughes. Right. And don't you think we saw that in the playoffs last season?

Yeah. I mean, it's the way – I'm not saying that Quinn Hughes was bad in the playoffs, but I think he struggled a little bit. I think there were times when he was like, oh, their forecheck seems a little different than it does in the regular season. Right. And you've got to remember the other part of that too is –

And I just got hit. Yeah. But Kiefer Sherifer sherwood sign that guy yeah take please bring him on our team i mean that is one of the big dynamics when people talk about you know it gets different in the playoffs well one of the things that gets different in the playoffs as opposed to the regular season and i always bring this up is i don't think anyone truly understands what it's like to have the same opponent doing the same thing to you every second night it's not like you can play you know carolina on a tuesday and then maybe they harass the living like crap out of you but they're gone yeah they're gonna move on to someone else thursday night you go to columbus and it's a lot easier right these guys again yeah it's it's the same thing and it's a targeted effort where they said, well, how are we going, you know, two teams evenly matched, four points apart from one another in the standings and the playoffs.

There's not a lot to choose from. So how do you go about making a difference in a series? Well, you usually pick like the head of the snake. And in this case, it would have been Hughes. We're just going to annihilate this guy. Maybe it won't pay off in games one and games two, but by five, six, and seven, the wear down effect is real.

And this is when I always go back to the performance that Duncan Keith had in the playoffs a few years ago for the Chicago Blackhawks. Was it the 2015 year? 2015 Stanley Cup final. And they were down to three defensemen. But they were, was that the year that they

played the Ducks in the conference final? Yeah, and Kessler thought he could just wear him down. Yeah, he said no human being can withstand this sort of punishment. Spoiler alert, he could. Yeah. The rest of the defense didn't. They knocked everyone else out. Johnny Oduya.

He's like, all right, I got this. Johnny Oduya had one good shoulder. Kimo Tiemann was just a playoff fume. He was done. Yeah. He was done. But they just kept going. Yeah, it was an incredible performance.

I mean, everyone was like, Quenville was a great coach and everything. I mean, Quenville also played Duncan Keith 30 minutes a night. He's like, you know what I'm going to do? More than that sometimes. Strategy. And Keith was fine. I mean, he was exhausted by the end of it.

He weighed like 130 pounds. Yeah. He was emaciated. Oh, that series. Steve Stamkos, by the end of it, looked like a goat. Like, not the greatest of all time, but the animal. Like an actual goat. Because he was so skinny

and he had this scraggly beard and he didn't shave. And I remember watching him after. That didn't help either. How did you do today? Also, you know what else I distinctly remember about that series? The guys after the game would have prepared meals for them

that they would take either onto the plane or onto the bus or whatever. And it was like a styrofoam to-go container, but it was, I suppose, created by the team chef to replenish everything that they lost. And the guys were too tired to eat. I remember that after a game. They were either... Yeah.

Like, the competitive juices were still flowing, so they weren't in like a... It was like Mr. Burns, chew for me. Yeah. There's like another... Yeah. Spitting in my... Yeah, anyway.

I'm doing the gesture on camera. You can't see it. But I remember Keith being very, very withered away by the end of it. Stamkos being... But I just remember it very, very withered away by the end of it. Stamkos being – but I just remember it was the grind that is – and that's another part of the playoffs too, right? You understand that it's a grind. You're going to feel miserable, and you're going to be emaciated,

and you're going to be tired, and you're going to be sore, and you're going to be injured. That's just all part of it. So one of the guys we kind of touched on with Manu Viveros, in a way, daniel sprung and we've talked about him and his ability to play without the puck and maybe that's going to be what's going to keep him in the nhl or in a prominent role with the canucks did you notice a practice who he was playing with uh he got the bump did he not yep yeah he was playing with pd and DeBrusque. Which is, I think, the right thing.

Well, I want to see it. Yeah. And I wonder if we're going to see that on Friday in the Canucks' final tune-up game. They've got more time to practice this week, so we might see some different combinations up there. But I really want to see what it looks like. Sure.

I also want to throw this out there. Will the Petey line be the second line or the third line in terms of how much they get used at five on five? Pedersen, DeBrusque, and Sprong? Yeah, because remember last year, there was oftentimes where the Miller line was 1,000% the top line. Yeah. But then you had Garland, Joshua,

and whether it was Bluger or Lindholm, those guys played a lot. Yeah, which isn't going to be a factor at the beginning of the year, right? We don't know what that combo is going to look like. I think it's going to be Hoaglander and Garlander are going to be the wingers, and then it could be other.

Or Bluger. Or it could be Bluger, yeah. Just a different vibe. It's not the third line. Petey, DeBrusque, and Sprong, wingers and then it could be other well or it could be bluger yeah just a different vibe it's not the third line pd de brusque and sprung i'm confident will be end up being the second line in terms of deployment right yeah you're asking me i don't think you're asking a lot if it's but i just think don't you think um tell me if i'm wrong here tell me i'm wrong tell me I'm wrong here. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong here. Is Garland, right now, their second best forward? Until we see a better Pettersson.

Until we see a better Petey. Well, you put Miller. Miller number one? Yeah. And then I... Yeah, I don't know. He scored 40 goals last year. There were times, but I think in the playoffs,

Garland was better than Petey. I'm going to say no, he's not the second best forward. Okay. I think Garland is right up there, to the point where if I'm Rick Talk and I want Garland out there a lot. I was impressed with how Garland and Hoaglander looked. I thought maybe the part of Garland's effectiveness last year

was the chemistry with Joshua. I think Garland's just a good player. But I thought they really played well off one another and that they understood what each other's strengths were, like who needs to go where. We just got the big guy over here and we got the little guy over here. And now you got two little guys.

It's difficult, right? It's different. I wouldn't describe Hoaglander as little. He's little. I don't know. I think he's actually like kind of fire hydrant-ish. Fire hydinder is little. He's little. I don't know. I think he's, I think he's, I think he's, he's actually like kind of fire hydrant ish. Fire hydrants are little.

Yeah, I know. But I, I don't consider him like garland sized. Garland's small. Yeah. I mean. I don't consider Holglinder undersized. I consider him like average. What's he listed at?

He's average size. Five, five, nine, one 85. Okay. That's small. All right. Five,", short. Apologies to all you 5'9 guys out there who are like, I'm almost six feet.

Not quite. Yeah. They're different statures, I'll say that, but they are not physically imposing either of them. Brandon in Vancouver. Petey had 89 points. Some of your takes on him are getting ridiculous. I'm talking about the playoffs here in late last season.

I did my power rankings. I have them ahead. So in the playoffs, you had Petey ahead of Garland in terms of quality of player. Then you weren't watching the playoffs. I didn't say that. Do not turn the tables on me like this. Well, that's what Brandon is saying.

That's what Brandon is saying. Brandon's not Brandon. He said Petey had 89 points. If you're going to say collectively, big picture, not just the slump that Petey went through last year. Yeah. Pedersen is the more valuable and better forward. Well, yeah, obviously.

But I'm talking about until we see further. I mean, he had a slump that was what? Three and a half months, right? We're going to allow that his body of work prior to that might be the player it might not be the slow that's what we're hoping well yeah so i bet i mean yeah but i'm talking about how the canucks are going to be deployed at the beginning of the season if we were to do this bar room argument i would say i would take miller besser pd and then i don't i like de brusque i'm gonna need to see what it looks like on the West Coast

with the Canucks as opposed to... You're going to take DeBrusque over Garland. I'm going to say that the potential is there. Yeah. And because of the goal-scoring ability. Garland doesn't score a lot of goals. Yeah. He does a lot of good things.

He does a lot. By the way, what we should be talking to Brandon about is, you want to talk about how people can come around and change their tune. How about, you know, this show, but everyone's tune on Connor Garland. Right.

I mean, we have a lot of turnaround. Yeah. What a turnaround. Right. I mean, we were talking about him being virtually untradeable a while ago, even though the connects acquired him after that,

you know what I'm talking about? That, that very small window where he wanted out. It didn't seem like it was going to be a fit. Whatever they... He hadn't been very effective for the Canucks.

No, there was a lot of spinning. There wasn't a fit until, you know, that the third line came together. Brett Festerling is going to join us next on the Halford & Brough show

on Sportsnet 650.