Halford & Brough in the Morning - Bukala Talks Prospects and Breaking Down Thomas Müller

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

In hour 2, guest hosts Josh and Jamie are joined by Sportsnet's Jason Bukala. Jason talks the top prospects at the Hlinka Gretzky Cup, the long-term effects of CHL vs NCAA hockey, expectations for Braeden Cootes, and managing Jonathan Lekkerimäki. Soccer writer for The Athletic, Joshua Kloke joins the show. Joshua discusses Thomas Müller joining the Vancouver Whitecaps. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Welcome back to Halford and Brough. No Halifr, no Brough. It's Josh Elliott Wolf. Jamie Dodd here with you coming to you live from the Kintech Studio. Howford and Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks. visit sands dash trustee.com. This hour of Halford Abrupt is for jason.mortgage.

If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. That's jason.morgia. And we are broadcasting live from the Kintech studio, Kintech, footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. Also, the BC Lions Saturday, August 16th, your Lions face the alouettes for the show and shine game, featuring over 200 classic and exotic cars. Get tickets at BCLions.com. We go to the hotline now, powered by PowerWest Industries, and we welcome in one of our favorites,

Jason Bucla from SportsNED. Appreciate you taking the time, Boots. How are you? Good morning. I'm doing great. How's summer going out there on the left coast? It's pretty chill. Yeah, not too much going on.

What about you? How's your summer? It's been, it was a little bit hectic after the draft, and then it's settled down. and I'm usually in Europe at this time. I'm usually at the Halenka, well, depending if it's in Europe or Canada, but the Halenka-Gretzky tournament, but I am about to hit the road to drive my youngest off to college in Tampa Bay.

He starts college, so moving him into college at the end of the week, and then getting right back into hockey mode right after that because things get hectic and are very, very quickly at the end of August, the season starts up again on the amateur side for sure. Yeah, no kidding. and with the, we're just, we've got the Linka Gretzky on here, Canada, up to nothing over Finland. Congratulations, by the way, on taking your youngest to college boot club. That's awesome.

So I wanted to ask you about the Link of Gretzky. I know you're not able to be there, but I'm sure you're keeping an eye on it. Who are you most interested, most excited to see in this tournament, in this format? Well, Team Canada's got a heck of a roster. And I mean, right there, you know, with the Vancouver Giants, Ryan Wind, the defenseman for the Giants. He actually got a chance to play at the U-18 World Championships in Dallas in the spring, which is great. You know, he's a high-end talent, you know, right shot, right D, transports the buck. He's a traditional new breed, a transitional defenseman that can power play, or quarterback to power play.

He's a guy right in your backyard that people will really enjoy watching, I think, this year in his draft cycle. Keaton Veerhoff, you know, from formerly of the Victoria, Royals there. He's going to really press up in this draft class. He's a big body. You know, another defenseman that, you know, anytime you get a defenseman

at over six foot three, 210 pounds to do the things that he does as a right shot, it's obviously very enticing. Lane and DuPont's on the horizon. I mean, the summer team for Team Canada is always the most it's the most loaded team

of the season just because in the spring, obviously a lot of the kids are still playing major junior or, you know, there's somewhere else in the world with their club team in playoffs. And this is the one time that you get to load up this candidate team from top to bottom. And there's an embarrassment of riches there, Adam Valentini, who was at Chicago Steel last year, has come to the Kitchen of Rangers this year. And yeah, it's exciting time to watch this in the summer.

I'm sad a little bit that I'm not there because it marks the beginning of the scouting cycle and it's good to get back at it. But at the same time, family matters. so I'll watch them from the distance. Yeah, a lot of these guys, or sorry, a lot of people keep an eye on this tournament, but a lot of people shift their focus more to the World Juniors

when we're talking about prospects and all of that. How many players on Team Canada do you think would factor in to the World Junior conversation when we get there? From this roster here, that's going to be interesting because, you know, there's going to be, well, let me put it to this way.

Team Canada is obviously resetting their strategy and how they go about their business. As you know, Alan Miller has been hired as a full-time general manager of the U-20 and the U-18 program. I think that some kids on this roster that will push for at least a camp invite. I think Verhoff, for sure, will be in that mix.

The Belchez kid, the big rig out of Windsor. He's a huge, huge body. Adam Valentini might. But certainly, I'm keeping an eye on Landon DuPont, you know, right down there in Everett's and Landon DuPont is, I love the way the Everett Silver Tips play the game, first of all, and I think

that it plays into the hand of the best possible exposure for some of their prospects. And what I mean by that is that they play like their hairs on fire, like every shift they push to play. Like, they really make life miserable on their opponent and you have to be on time

in all three zones when you play like that. And Landon DuPont's the guy to keep an eye on, even though he's a defenseman, because he likes to be. go on on the attack offensively, but then he's got to track back defensively on time with the way that they play so aggressively. And he's a guy to keep a close eye on and see how he evolves. But it's going to be interesting, isn't it, the cycle for the U-20s when we do get to getting closer to Minneapolis, well, St. Paul and Minnesota hosting it in the wintertime, just to see

what the strategy is with the Hunter brothers involved. Now, Dale's going to want a certain type of a player but you know what we made that mistake last year didn't we when we kind of went and drafted a type of player typed and they wanted to play a certain way i say load up the roster with all the very very best players and make your opponent uh challenge to defend you well and one new wrinkle also in this cycle of course as you well know and i mean i'm sure we could do a whole a whole hour on your thoughts on this but with the guys going from the chl to the ncdbara some of them some high profile ones including katen verhoff and or keaton verhoff excuse me and i'm very curious to see because you know for a draft eligible

defenseman to make the world junior team is very difficult right and now Verhoff might have had the profile where he could do it anyways but you got to think if he goes to the NCAA as having big time success against older players that that might give him a leg up to make the team right getting the chance to kind of show what he can do against tougher

competition and I'm just very curious to see how the dynamics of that and you know could hockey Canada favor guys who have stuck in the CHL as well right as they kind of maybe feel a little defensive I think it's going to be very interesting to see how that new dynamic shapes, how the roster is formed as well. Yeah, so a couple of things that you bring up there.

It's really interesting. Absolutely. I mean, when he's going to be able to be thrust into a situation at North Dakota to be defending against, you know, older, bigger, stronger players. Now, listen, the CHL, the NCAA game is completely different than the CHL in my estimation. It's, especially when you only play two games a week, they're so, they're so bent up with energy to get the, on Friday night. I always want to go watch college games.

I go to make sure I watch that team in back-to-back nights. Because on the Friday night, it can kind of be unorganized and hectic for the first half of the game because they're so energized. And then it settles into the best version of itself. And for a defense for like Burrough, yeah, it's going to be challenging because, you know, the kids, you could be facing a player 24 years old. And that's a lot difference obviously than being on the road in Spokane, playing against a rookie at 18. So I think that is going to be a factor.

You know, how do they handle weight? How do they handle, you know, chaos with a bigger, stronger, more mature body that they have to defend? For sure, I think that's going to be a thing. Now, the other point that you made there, I don't think Hockey Canada is in a position. The beggars can't be true. This is my estimation. And you just got to be able to bring in the very, very best player that no matter where they're playing in the world, make that happen. So he's going to be in tough, though.

There's some real big names that on the back end, like, you know, for Team Canada, obviously Matthew Schaefer signed with the Islanders. We'll see how that goes. He's obviously going to have an opportunity to make the islanders, and we'll see what happens with that team. And if he ends up being sent back as just a draft plus one, but there's lots to unpack with that whole NCAA thing. You're absolutely right.

Like I could sit here for two hours and talk about it. Right now, everybody's the bell, the ball. We'll see how it goes. Well, yeah, and just on the new relationship, I guess, between the two pathways and between the CHL and the NCWHs. And, you know, as you said, you could do two hours here. And we do want to get to some other stuff. But I've been kind of thinking about it.

And one of the thoughts I've had is I don't know if it's as doom and gloom for the CHL as maybe some people are making it out to be. Right. And the reason I say that is there's only so many spots in the NCAA. And naturally, if some of those spots get taken by CHL players, that's also going to create a push for maybe players who traditionally would have gone to the NCAA to come up here and play instead. And I think they're going to find an equilibrium pretty quickly that, look,

Does it hurt to lose players like Gavin McKenna? Yeah, of course it doesn't. If that happens, that's going to be a tough pill to swallow. But I don't think this is maybe quite as dire for the CHL as it's being made out to be. Do you agree with that take, Bukes? I think long term, you're bang on. I really do agree with that. I mean, on balance, there's a player pool out there.

Here's the thing, when you lose your marquee players in McKenna's, which is not good. I mean, I get it. When you lose your marquee players, everybody, that's when the doom and gloom sets in it, everybody's upset. There's also a secondary layer there where some of the older kids are from now finding a place to play in the NCAA to continue on at the highest level possible, which I think is fantastic, by the way, the more the merrier for these kids to have opportunities. But what we don't know is what you're describing? And that is, what about the kids that we're not so much aware of? We haven't heard as much about to have them optioning out to play NCAA hockey

as their choice. And so they're in the USHL or maybe they're still toiling in prep hockey or you know, Minnesota High School, for that matter. And some of these guys are going to be really fine players who on their development curve could land in the CHL, and it's going to be fine. There's enough hockey going on in North America and around the world, that is, that is very, very high quality. And I think that it will open up opportunities.

And we don't know about that path yet because all everybody's paying attention to, and it's totally fair, is the marquee guys going south of the border. But we don't know about the rest of the path. The CHL is going to be fine. It's a fantastic league, obviously, and everybody knows how many players get developed out of the CHL to go to the next level.

But it's going to take time for everything to settle here. Another new wrinkle that I don't think we've talked to you about. Reportedly in the new CBA is that NHL teams will be able to place one 19-year-old CHL player in the AHL per season. How do you think that will impact the development of whichever players are able to take that route? I'm off for this one, too, fellas. I really am. I've gone through this enough in the past in my career.

Owen Tippett was one of the last ones that I had going through in that cycle where, you know, Tips makes our team out of training camp in Florida with the Panthers, plays his set of games, gets sent back to Mississauga, and then he's nothing but it's not because TIP, he's never been a handful in terms of personality or coachability or anything that he's not. He's not at all. But this is where when you're 18 years old, then you get sent back and you're the very, very best player.

And then you're turning 19, i.e. like Zane Perak, for example, who's a Calvary Flame draft pick, who, you know, he would have to go back to junior. And it's not good to be the very, very best and be super elite at the junior level, kind of graduated out of that skill-wise, and they have to be stuck there for an extra year of your development cycle. When they can now go go to the American League, which is an extremely hard league, it gobbles up young kids, and it teaches you how to be a good pro,

This is good for the kid. It's good for the development of the prospect. And it's not going to be, again, it's not going to be horrible for the CHL team. I know why CHL teams want to keep those kids around. They put people in the stands. It's a money-making machine to have the very best of the best around. And, of course, you can trade them out, trade deadlines and pick up ridiculous amount of draft picks and whatever.

But this is really good for the prospect, and I think it's good for the development cycle for the NHL teams to get them in the mix. So we were talking earlier in the show books about some of the high-profile Canucks prospects and of course their most recent first round pick, Braiding Coots in the WHL and I think it's going to be really interesting to track him especially with him playing

locally or close to locally and they'll have a chance fans will have a chance here to see him play when they come up to play the Giants at the LEC. Does Coots have a chance at the World Junior Team for Team Canada in your view? Well, I wouldn't discount it, I'll tell you, because

I know that when the Canucks drafted Braden Coots, it was a little bit of a mixed bag of emotion at the time. And the reason, and I understand why, because his offensive metrics don't jump off the page compared to some of the other kids in his draft class, if you will, in that range. What he does guys, and I think he probably saw it at development camp, is this kid is a leader. He's very driven on and off the puck. He's always involved in everything.

He never goes away. And so what I'm trying to tell you is that I think his A game, which is point production, will trend up. There's no doubt about that in my mind. He reminds me a lot in a lot of ways, and it's just a little bit less offense, but there's still the potential there. He reminds me a lot of when Nick Suzuki was coming

through the Ontario Hockey League. He was a little bit cerebral at times, but he did a lot of things well, except that Coots is harder out physically than Suzuki was at that time. So when I'm trying to draw a picture here is that you get a complete type of a player, and you can trust them in a variety of roles,

and when you have players like that, that you don't have to coach up to be in the three or the four or even be the extra forward on your roster, when you have a guy like that who can be accepting of that, that gives them a chance to make the team because he can be that Swiss Army knife for the coach. When it comes to production or otherwise, what does a successful season this year look like for Coots?

For Coots, I would think that north of 85 points would be blowing it out of the water for me. Let's also keep into perspective here. the last year in Seattle, like that was a rebuilding outfit, you know, they, they were going through that transition that and you all see that at junior hockey, you know, when you're really good and then you got to, you don't really,

hopefully you don't bottom out, some teams don't do it at all. The London Knights never seem to be bad, but there's a process involved there and it's harder when you're at the top of the table on a rebuilding outfit to score more because your matchups are so difficult every night. This year, he'll go to another

level. So, I mean, if he can get the 85, I'd be over the moon. Over 75, would definitely be, he's got to be over a point of game. I'll put it to you that way, but he's got to do it without sacrificing everything else that he does exceptionally well. And I don't think he will because I love his character. He was an awesome interview at the Combine for us.

I don't know. I just think that this kid's got captain written all over him at every stop in his career cycle. That's how I feel about him. And I don't just throw that out for, you know, for giggles. I mean, that's just the way he's programmed. Everybody's met a person in their life or an athlete is coming into the room in my career,

and you're looking at him going, geez, his kids wired the right way, you just get that feeling, and he's one of them. So he's going to push himself to be the best version of himself, and I think that let's settle on 80-plus points as we kind of saw it off in the middle here. It is Halford & Brough, Josh Elliott Wolf and Jamie Dodd, filling in, joined by Jason Buchla from Sportsnet.

So as Jamie mentioned, we were talking a bit about Canucks prospects. We talked about Braden Coots, and also lecker-macky, and he kind of finds himself in a weird spot when you look at the Canucks lineup. Like there's not an obvious spot for him at the NHL level. What do you want to see from him this season in terms of taking a step in his 21-year-old season? Well, you know, there were some really good things last year, guys. You know, his handles are quick. He's obviously you can see what he's going to be able to do in time on the power play.

He doesn't waste any time when he handles a puck. He's everything to play ahead, and that can't really be coached up. Timing can be coached up, but that ability to see the ice and do things with the puck, that's a God-given ability that you can nurture. Now, having said that, I did feel like his pace overall did improve last year due to more strength, but he needs to get stronger still. He's got to get to another level there, and he's got to be able to track more reliably up and down the ice sheet, especially at even strength.

And then from that, you know, good, strong, a stronger body and a little bit more quickness and the more, he knows how fast the NHL game plays now. The run that Avesler went on in the American League is good for everybody in the organization, by the way. And now he knows that he's got to play faster and more engaged all the time. I'm not worried about that. I think that it's just going to take some time. He's a 21-year-old score.

Like, that's what he is. and a shooter, and he's going to get a bunch of his opportunities down the road on the power play, and he's going to have to capitalize on those. But there's a lot of good competition there. Like, you know, Carlson had a fantastic playoff run, obviously, as you guys know, in Abbottisford. And, you know, Atu Ratu is different. But those guys are a lot older, you know, like Carlson's like 25, and Ratu's already a year older. So more strength, more understanding of how to read and react off the puck,

and we'll see where it goes for Bacar Mackie, but he's going to have to have a hell of a training camp, isn't he, to break with the Canucks? Yeah, that point about how crowded it is on the depth chart and especially even just with some of the younger players threatening for time as well, let alone the established NHL guys up above him. I think it's going to be fascinating for Leckermackie,

because as you said, we know what the offensive potential is, but all those other parts of his game that still need working on, like how difficult is it for an organization to manage a player of that mold? You know, it's a pretty common type of player of prospect coming up with the offensive skill, but needing to work on the details. And I feel like you always end up in this bind where it's like, okay, do we really want him playing on the fourth line? But he's ready for the NHL, but does that, does it make more sense just to send him down to Abbotsford?

How difficult is it from an organizational perspective to kind of manage a player in Leckermackie's position? Yeah, that speaks to character for sure. That's not an easy one. You know, these types of players, when they've come through their system, This one, obviously, the Karamaki coming from Sweden. When these players have been the best of the best in their talent pool playing a certain way for so long, and they arrive over here at the best league in the world, and there's a process involved, it takes a massive buy-in, A, from the athlete, and then obviously from the organization as well,

because you know what you have, and you know that it's going to take some time. So you don't want to rush that, and you don't want to put him in a situation that is not going to allow him to continue to evolved to be the best version of himself. And you just brought up a great point. Like if you throw him in the four or you throw him in the press box half the time, and when he's on the four and he gets secondary power play unit time, let's just say that. Well, secondary units in the NHL and power play,

unless, you know, there's several whistles in the first sequence, they don't get a lot of time, fellas. And so you don't get a lot of time to get settled in and have a massive impact. So it's better for me to see him go back to the American League and continue to evolve. and thrive in the areas that we know that he's going to be capable to do. And then we'll see where it goes from there, you know, on a call-up type of situation. But he's not a guy that you can bury.

I shouldn't say Barry, but he can't play eight minutes in the four and then just expect him to go out there and score on the power play. So it's a process. It's hard on the athlete. They got to buy in, but it takes a lot of patience on the organization's part as well. Now, I just want to throw another caveat in there because I just checked and I almost forgot about this. You have to be aware as well that Linus Carlson needs to play a certain amount of games this year, right? Like he's only got 23 NHL games under his belt, and he needs to get over the 70-game threshold overall

before he becomes a group six free agent after next year, and he's free to every team in the league. So that's something the Canucks are going to be sternly aware of as well coming off the playoff that he had in Aversford. Before we let go, we did want to ask about Sawyer Minio as well, and your thoughts on his development since the Canucks took him a couple years ago, and what we should expect to see from him in Abbotsford this season. Sawyer Minio is on the rise. This kid, he really had a strong year last year. He's obviously been on the radar with Team Canada.

He's a 20-year-old defenseman that's going to take, again, some time. But I still forecast him as a 2-A-D that's going to be able to manage the game in the middle, hopefully in the middle of your lineup long-term. I mean, like, I don't think he's a top pairing guy. I'm hoping that he can land somewhere along, you know, be in the four, for example. But there's a lot of upside with Sawyer Minio. And, again, he's the type of guy that, like, he got that small cup of coffee at the World Juniors, and he didn't look the least wit out of place to me.

Like, he can manage the game. He's capable with the puck. He's extremely responsible. But it's going to be a challenge early on in his NHL career to just take away time or an AHL career to take away time and space, understand how to keep people to the perimeter and body up. But listen, he's got the drive and the character. He's programmed the right way, guys.

So I think that it's a real positive, but you've got a 2AV that hopefully tops out at, I'm going to call him a 4 at the top, but he might be a 4 or a 5 long run, and that'll be okay. Hey, Bukes, really appreciate you taking the time and enjoy the drive to Tampa. Yes, I will. I'm more excited for him that he can go to university

in Tampa Bay than here in London, Ontario in the middle of February. So good for him, right? Good call, yeah. Smart choice. That's a great choice. Hey, uh, appreciate you. Take the time, Bukes. Hey, boys. Enjoy the rest of the summer. I'm always around. So thanks for having me on. Sounds good. Thank you. There's Jason Bucla from SportsNet talking prospects. Yeah. If I had the choice, Tampa Bay or London, Ontario, yeah, probably taking Tampa Bay. It's a bold call. It's a bold one.

Yeah. But I'm doing it. I always think back, like, I should have gone to the University of Hawaii. Yeah. It would have been way better. Instead, I went to BCIT. Yeah. You went to Burnaby. The thrilling.

Scenic Burnaby. Right off Willingdon Drive. And now they're doing construction on the off-ramp. It's a whole thing. Okay. Keep the text coming in, 650, 650 on the Dunbar Lumber text line. Get your what we learns in as well. We're going to need them at 830.

I've seen a few come in already. We'll hit those later in the show. but yeah, throw a hashtag WWL and we will hit them later in the show on the 650-650 Dumbar Lumber text line. On the other side, we are going to speak to Joshua Cloak about everything going on. What went into the Thomas Mueller acquisition for the Vancouver White Caps, the behind-the-scenes aspect of it for the White Caps with their new edition, their big new edition, the biggest edition they've ever made in Thomas Mueller.

and his impending debut come Sunday. Before we go, Jampro, from showrooms to stockrooms and everything in between, Jampro keeps workplaces tidy, clean, and disinfected for a free quote, visit jampro.ca. It is Halford & Brough, Josh Elliott Wolf, Jamie Dodd on Sportsnet 650. Welcome back to Halford and Brough. Still no Halford. Still no brough.

It's still us. Imagine if they showed up. You guys are doing. Vacation's over. No, they're not doing. I can guarantee they will not be doing it. We're lucky if they tune in. They're probably asleep right now.

Are they? I don't know if they still wake up. I'm trying to imagine the circumstances that would have to unfold for Halford specifically to turn on the station on vacation. Like, I can't think of what would have to happen. I think it would have to be, like, a big Canucks trade. And even then, I think he'd be like, I'll listen to me. I don't know.

I don't know that he would. Broughwood, for sure. Broughwood 100%. Halford? I don't know. Like, I want to hear from the real experts. I've gotten random text from Halford, uh, like, while I'm hosting. So maybe.

Halford? Yeah. Really? I don't know why. I guess sometimes he does listen. That shocks me. I know. Shocks me every time. I'm surprised he knows how to tune the, tune his radio to the station, honestly.

Well, you can also stream us on sports. Sportsnet.com. So true. Halford & Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates, B.C.'s first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 5-star reviews. Visit sands-trustee.com. This hour of Halford &Bruff is for Jason. Mortgage.

If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. That's jason. Dot mortgage. We go to the hotline now, powered by Power West Industries. It is Joshua Cloke, joining us. from the athletic. Appreciate you taking the time, Joshua. How are you? Good morning, guys. How are feeling today? We are feeling great. We're all super pumped

here in Vancouver for the impending arrival of Thomas Mueller. And you have a piece up on the athletic recently from a few days ago titled Inside Thomas Mueller's move to Vancouver. Details behind the Byron Legends shocker. And yeah, it was a shock to seemingly everyone involved, including the organization. How surprising was Mueller's willingness, I guess, to come to Vancouver? Willingness, I don't know how surprising was just because, like, you know, I don't need to tell you or anybody listening that, you know, Vancouver is a world-class city in terms of, you know, quality of life.

I think it's surprising is just that when bona fide European stars, and, you know, we have to make that clear. there was a time, not too, too long ago that Thomas Mueller was one of the best, you know, 10 attacking players on the planet. When they come to MLS, it's usually to a small handful of places, right? Los Angeles, between one of the two teams, Miami is obviously going through a real, you know, Vogue time, right? Just with Bessie coming. New York still draws a certain type of star. and then Toronto, a little bit, I guess a little bit more in the past, they would have a tendency to draw big European stars as well.

And I think Vancouver, you know, long understood that they were on the outside looking in when it came to attracting those kind of stars. And, you know, I wrote in the piece talking to people around the deal that when the initial conversation happened between Thomas Mueller's representation and the Vancouver Whitecaps, you know, when Woolers, people kind of reached out and said, look, Thomas is considering a move to MLS. Would you be interested in a conversation?

And, you know, people from the White Caps essentially said, do you know who we are? Like, do you know how we operate? Do you know what we do? That's not a knock on Vancouver, just in that they're not typically one of the league's higher sped. And, you know, again, they're not the kind of team that usually goes out and recruits.

big, big name stars. But there were certainly other things that really attracted Thomas Mueller to Vancouver. And I'm sure we'll talk about them. You know, the opportunity to win was a big part of it. So I think, again, big picture, was it shocking that he came to Vancouver, the city? No, it's an incredible city. It's one of the best cities to play and to live in in MLS. Is it shocking that he came to the white caps?

Yeah, that's what I think is really shocking, right? Yeah, and you mentioned the, you know, the ability to win or the opportunity to win, given the season that the white caps are having. And we can talk about also, you know, the history of Axel Schuster and his conversations with Esper Sorensen. But given the unusualness of this, as you just laid out, right? Not typically where big European stars go when they're coming over to MLS, not even really the type of market that they go to. What does this tell us about Mueller as a personality, as a player, his goals on the field? And also, just kind of who he is off the pitch as well. Yeah, this is a story that I wanted to work into the piece, but I wasn't really sure how. You know, Byron are one of the biggest clubs, one of the three biggest clubs on the planet. And with that come the expectations to win all the time.

And Joshua Kamik, who one of the best midfielers on the planet, he really came to Byron in 2016 and started to evolve as kind of the next great German play. maker, he's coming off a story I've kind of read a few times. He was coming off a 5-0 win, and one of his first kind of blowout wins with Byron, and he comes into the dressing room, and he expects, you know, the entire team to be so elated over the moon, like a 5-0 win, and he finds the dressing room to be like just remarkably calm, stoic on the next one, and he's surprised his young player.

And he goes to Thomas Mullen, he's like, is happening here. This is a 5-0 win. I expected everybody to be over the moon. And Thomas Mueller's reply very quickly was we win at Byron, not to celebrate, but just so we're allowed to go eat a little bit of ice cream on Sundays. And his answer was just that like winning is expected at Byron. Winning is expected in Germany, right? And so you win not to celebrate.

You win just so you can relax a little bit. And I think what that tells us is that, you know, know, Thomas Mueller is addicted to winning, and he should be, right? Two, two Champions League trophies, a World Cup trophy, countless, you know, Bundesliga and Pocale trophies. And so he wanted to go to a place where he thought he could continue to win. Some players come from Europe with the understanding that, like, they're in a rebuild phase, and they get to be the center of a new project,

the face of a new project. Not Mueller. Mueller wanted to win and win right away. think when he looked at the teams that were interested in him, realistically, Vancouver was at the top in terms of teams that gave him the chance to win. So that's what I think you're going to find is not a player that's going to come in and just expect things to maybe come easy to him or take the league seriously. He's a very, very driven player.

And I think we're going to see him, you know, show that side of him very quickly on the pitch and off the pitch with what the White Caps players. I think we should expect to see the quality of play elevated. And I think we should expect to see some of the standards with which this. That's a great story. And that's the one thing that I think has kind of gone under the radar is a lot of times when these players come over from Europe, it's like, yeah, they're coming over and they're kind of finishing their career. And maybe they have more of a, there's more of a, I wouldn't call it selfish, but they have more of an individual aspect to

them, whereas it does feel like Thomas Mueller coming over might have more of an effect on the white caps as a whole and kind of the culture and standards for the Vancouver white caps moving forward. Well, recruitment is going to, you know, again, like, Lino Messi comes to Miami and the stars follow. And I'm not necessarily saying that's going to happen with Thomas. It ever happens this year with the white caps. We know that Thomas Mueller is under contract next year.

well. And so when the white caps put together their roster for next year, you know, it could be a little bit easier for them to attract younger players, you know, from around the world, Europe potentially, with the idea that, like, you can play with Thomas Miller, you can train with Thomas Miller. And we know that that's a thing. We know that that remember way back in 2019 talking to Alfonso Davies about his first few months at fire. And, you know, the conversation was pretty standard. Like, what was it like? And I remember his eyes getting very, very wide because he just, he, he, he was pretty clear, like, you get here. And the hunger is so, so strong, right? The hunger to win is so much more strong than it was in MLS. And like, who's, who's enforcing that? And the first two names that came to him were Iron Robin, who's obviously retired, such players of all time. And Tom Fuller, he's like, these are guys that, instill a drive to win throughout the team that is relentless and so again this is not this is not kind of you're hoping this will happen and I think that's a real MLS clubs have

kind of right is when they bring in a big year in European star and they just hope things will change without really in the background of a player and I know it's you know I know it's easy in Vancouver to look down on Toronto but like Toronto FC did not do the right amount of homework when they signed up the CA2 a huge deal and hoped that he would be the next great European attraction. This is a player that had no been leading. This is a player that had very little interest in playing out as himself. And so that's where I think Vancouver did well here. They found a player not only can perform wants to kind of elevate the way that others around him perform as well.

Hey Joshua, we're losing you a bit, so we're just going to drop you and try to reconnect here on the hotline. It is Joshua Cloak from the Athletic joining us on Halpert & Brough, Josh Elliott-Wolf and Jamie Dodd hoped to have him back momentarily. But it is exciting, and it does feel different than, again, like I mentioned, most European players coming over. Like, it feels like he's going to bring, it's like when a, any team in any sport trades for a culture carrier.

It kind of feels like that's what the white caps are getting into. And to have someone who's so motivated by winning specifically, right? Obviously not motivated chiefly by money. There's a lot of other things he could have done here. But instead, he's coming to Vancouver. And we reconnect now with Joshua Cloak from the athletic. And, you know, you do a great job outlining in your piece, Joshua, that, of course, it was Mueller's camp who initially showed interest in the white caps.

But from that point on, how much work did the white cap? have to do to kind of get this across the finish run, right? It's one thing to for Mueller to say, hey, I might be interested, but then I'm sure there was a lot that went into it from the Whitecast perspective to make this a reality. Oh, do we? Oh, we lost it. We lost. All right. Well, okay, we'll try

one more time. If we don't get him, we don't care. I get to ask my awesome question. It was a good question. You did a great intro too. Like, it was seamless. It's all for not. But I am curious to hear about exactly, you know, it's touched on in his piece, right? The conversations with Schuster about kind of big picture stuff, but then also the conversations with Jesper Sorensen about the more granular game-to-game tactical stuff. And I think that's going to be a fascinating thing here that we're going to start finding out

as early as this weekend is what does his role look like. And Mueller, of course, famous even at his peak in Europe for not really slotting into a traditional role, right? You didn't look at him and say, oh, this is an obvious number nine or a clear cut number 10 playmaker. He kind of had to invent almost his own role at Byron. And I'm curious to see how that translates here. But before we get to that, and we now do have Joshua Cloak back on the line. And Joshua, you know, as we were talking about earlier and you said in your piece,

it was Mueller's camp who initially reached out and kind of expressed interest in the white caps. But from that point on, how much did the white caps have to do to kind of get this across the finish line and make it a reality? Yeah, sorry about the connection issues. I'm actually on holiday in northern cell service is what it is. Yeah, the Whitecaps had to do a lot. First of all, in a deal for Mueller's discovery rights, which goes unaware. It's a complete flawed piece of that, like, you know, any MLS team on a planet that has, you know, maybe no chance of ever signing there.

And then, you know, I'm sure, for example, you know, an MLS team has rights to nail it Mbapé and then if another team wants to sign them in five, ten years, they're going to have to pay for it. And the league helped as well kind of facilitate a deal to get that done. But afterwards, the thing that really sealed it for Vancouver were the initial conversations between the Jesper Sorensen, the great Danish coach in Vancouver and Thomas Mueller. It was supposed to be a one hour long Zoom call between, you know,

multiple members of Vancouver and Thomas and then, you know, his staff. And 45 minutes of that, the first 45 minutes ended up just being a back and forth between Sorensen and Mueller just about football, just about tactics, just about them picking each other's football brains. And I just, I found that fascinating because that really gets to what is at the heart of this signing, right? It's a desire to win. It's a desire to play football.

It's so much less about money. They spent just a few minutes at the end talking about. image rights, which I know is something that a lot of other European players who come to MLS get focused on, but that wasn't the real issue. So it was truly Esper Sorensen and did a lot of the work to get this over the line, and I think he deserves credit. Obviously, he's following in the footsteps of Danny Sartini, who I know was a

full hero in Vancouver, and I'm sure there were questions about the new coach, but again, I think the proof is in the pudding in terms of what he did and how he's created an attack-first kind of all free-flowing possession style of football that Thomas Mueller was really, really interested in. And that ended up being the difference with the signing. How do you think Mueller fits into that system? How many adjustments, I guess, will the white caps have to make, if any, to fit Mueller into what they're doing on the pitch?

Well, that's the great thing about Thomas Mueller. He's going to be able to play multiple positions, right? Talking the Jesper Sorensen, there were two kind of ideas he had off the bat. The first is playing right behind a striker, so in kind of a real attacking midfield, they're kind of creative number 10. The person that can

provide the final path close to goal, because Thomas Mueller is at his best, and he's, you know, playing short combinations with his teammates close to goal. And the other is a player that can drift out from a wide area. So not really a winger, right? These names don't really mean

as much as they used to, right? ball positions and setups aren't as rigid as they used to be, but a player that can kind of come in from the right, sniff out his own space and then kind of finish close to goal. So I think what Yesper Sorensen is going to do is utilize Mueller depending on the opponent. If he thinks he's going to have a little bit more possession of the ball against an opponent that is willing to let Vancouver have the ball, then I could see Mueller playing as a creative of number 10 and providing that final pass.

But if you need to play a little bit more on the counterattack, you need some speed. You're not sure how much you're going to have the ball. Then you're going to see Mueller come out from wide areas. But if you're members of the Vancouver White Camps attack, right? Gold, White, they're going to be happy to play around Thomas Mueller as well because his resume is literally one of the most decorated in world football. And there's so much that these players have to learn from him tactically.

So, you know, I don't think it'll be a huge issue to see how these players revolve around each other. Joshua, I know you did great work on this file on the MLS side of things with the white caps, but of course you also cover the Canadian men's national team for the athletic. And we're less than a year out now from Canada joint hosting the World Cup with the United States and Mexico. Just from this vantage point is we really start the run up and the lead up to the World Cup. I know a ton of expectations going to be on Canada at that event. How is the team shaping up in your estimation? What are some of the big questions still left to be answered for the squad going into that tournament?

I think the big question for me right now is how they are going to do in a tournament setting where you have to rebound from games very, very quickly. I think the other shoe has kind of dropped in terms of this team under Jesse Marsh. and we should only really be looking at this team under Jesse Marsh. When he takes over and they go on their miraculous Copa America run to the semifinals, it looks like this team has kind of evolved into, you know, one of, maybe not the world's best, but maybe a team that's encroaching that kind of second tier of great football nations.

And then to see them crash out in the quarterfinals of the gold top against Guatemala, a team that they should have handedly beat, it doesn't matter that they didn't have their full strength squad, the depth is there that's disappointing and it's disappointing and that like they now had to take a few months off

to kind of recoup and I think Jesse Marsh still has to answer in terms of the big questions who are the players that he can truly depend on outside his stars we know who their stars are

we know that those players are going to play almost every minute Alfonso Davies Jonathan David Tejohn Buchanan Stephan Stachshow these are world class footballers but to me who are the players that are going to be depended on

in that kind of next tier, right? Is it Ali Ahmed, right? Vancouver White Cap, is that a player that can start most games, right? Because it looked like it was going to be Jacob Schaffelberg, you know, at Copeland and he's kind of fallen off. So that's just a bigger question for me, right?

You know who your stars are. We have to throw Maurice Bombito, what are Concord Cap's best centerbacks in there. But who are those next tier players because the great teams, the teams that do well in tournaments are the teams that have depth. And I think that was a big part of the Gold Cup was Jesse Marsh's efforts to find out what his depths truly look like,

truly looks like, excuse me. And I don't know if he has all his answers yet. And that's what makes these next few international windows, right? Friendlies against Australia, you know, Wales, Romania, Colombia. That's what makes him so important. Hey, Joshua, I really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks for this. Yep, take care, guys.

There is Joshua Cloak from the Athletic, fought through the phone issues, was good at the end. Honestly, what a rally from the phone. Yeah. I thought it was done. I was, I was making the cut symbol to you. I was like, this is over. Which is too bad because I was really enjoying the chat in the interview. Incredible comeback performance.

We got a couple more questions in there. It was great. It was Joshua Cloke from the Athletic. You can read his piece on the Thomas Mueller and the behind the scenes aspects of it over on the athletic. If you want, the full behind the scenes look. at how the Vancouver White Caps got Thomas Mueller in the organization. Did you guys talk about his

special German nickname that he made up for himself? The Romdeuter? Yeah, I didn't know he made it for himself. I'm pretty sure he did. That's it. The space interpreter. That's what they call me. It's like George Springer is doing this thing

where he's like, I'm not the DH. I'm the offensive player. And it's like, buddy. That's called DH. You're the name for that already. It's okay if you want to make it. So where are you at the field there, George? Oh, you're just a hitter?

Oh, you should make a term for that. You're the designated one. You've been designated. Just to hit? Interesting. Definitely. But you bring up the World Cup next year. And I do like, it's going to be so exciting, man, having it on home soil and games in Vancouver. But I do think there's going to be a decent amount of pressure on Canada to perform as well.

Mass of pressure. And especially as he was just outlining there, it felt like they had turned the corner. And then it's been very much a big step back. Now they've still got run up to it. But one of the issues always for the hosts is you're not playing the kind of competitive matches always that the teams that need to qualify. if I are, right? So it can kind of be a challenge to get that sharpness, maybe answer some of the

questions that Cloke was bringing up there in our interview. It is wild. Like, we're 11 months now, or even less, like 10 months, basically. I think it starts in June from hosting World Cup matches here in this city. That's crazy. I feel like it hasn't really sunk in yet. I mean, that

is a mass. That's the biggest sporting event, obviously, since the Olympics that we've had in this city. That is a massive deal. We get, what, at least two team Canada games, which is absolutely incredible. Those are going to be phenomenal. And I still am optimistic about what this team can do on home soil, especially with the fan support, playing their group games in Canada, with the talent they have.

I'm curious to see how these next, you know, 10 months play out here. And, you know, fitness for everyone obviously is going to be a big deal and what questions Jesse Marsh can answer. I think if you look at his total tenure as the, the, the, manager for team Canada. There's a lot more positive than negative. And I have confidence in him, much more so than I would have in Herdman, to get

them playing the right way and get them, you know, tuned up and ready to go for the World Cup. And we'll have to see how the group shake out too, because that will obviously play a big part in Canada, by the way, is still yet to win a World Cup match. In Qatar, they actually, they've yet to get a point in a World Cup match. They have not drawn

one even in Qatar. So taking that step would be nice, but you do want to see more growth. even more than that from the Canadian side as well and yeah it's someone I think it was of what we learned last week but next year the sports calendar

schedule this month like this summer for sports is it was tough it's not been great but next summer you get the Olympics you get the World Cup and then the the World Baseball Classic as well is next year too sure just with it on the pile yeah it's a far

an equally as significant tournament as those two other ones you mentioned It's far away But it will be fun Throughout the year For just the world of sports I'm trying to give baseball something Jamie Yeah

Good effort You know what The last world baseball classic It was cool It was fun It was cool O Tocci O Troll

Yeah that was cool That was great Okay keep the text coming in 650 650 On the Dunbar Lumber text line On the other side We are going to speak

To Jen Mueller From Root Sports We'll talk about the Red Hot Seattle Mariners and maybe a bit on the Seahawks as well. It is Halford & Brough. Josh Elliott Wolf, Jamie Dodd on SportsNet 650. Hey, it's Big Nazar.

Have your say and join me on the People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets. Weekdays 3 to 4 on SportsNet 650 or wherever you get your podcast.