Halford & Brough in the Morning - Burkie Goes To The Hall!

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), including this years Hockey Hall of Fame inductees, plus they discuss the latest NHL news with ESPN Hockey's Greg Wyshynski (30:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to Halford and Brough. Leonel Messi, surging forward with real menace here. Brilliant from Messi. That's a little with the outside of his boot. It's hot! Along the edge of the box. Oh, click! I believe the Ottawa Senators got hosed.

Whoa. What? Hose. Good morning Vancouver is 601 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody. It is Halford, it is Brough. It is SportsNet 650. We are coming here live from the Kintech Studios

and beautiful Mount Pleasant in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Edda, good morning to you as well. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well. Oh, it's Zach. I'm my apologies.

Regular Zach. Good morning to you as well. Good morning. It's almost like you're on kind of like autopilot sometimes. I was just excited to get going, you know. Congratulations, regular Zach. That was a very good intro. Halford and Brother of the morning is brought to by Sands

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650, 650, trusted by contractors and DIY champions across Metro Vancouver for generations. Find them at three convenient locations or visit Dunbar Lumber online today. Big show ahead, beginning with our guest list. It's the Duick Morning Drive brought to you by the Duick Auto Group. It begins at 630 this morning. Greg Wischinski's going to join the program. Our NHL insider from ESPN, tons and tons of news. Heading into draft week for Friday's draft,

there was the Brady Kichuk trade still being unpacked. The Hockey Hall of Fame announcements yesterday. All that and more we will discuss with Greg Wosinski at 630. 7.30, Julio Caravetta is going to join the program. BC Lions Radio Color Analyst. Ugly start to the year for the Lions. Yeah, the Lions are kind of lucky that everyone in Vancouver is pretty focused on the World Cup right now. See, when I say ugly start to the year, other people are saying, oh, they started the year.

That may be a good thing. 41 to 27 loss in Hamilton over the weekend. Do you remember when Ryan Rick Maiden came on our very show and came to the defense of Mike Benavides, which is kind of funny way to putting it. Embattled defensive coordinator, Mike Benavides. No one right now is coming to the defense of the BC Lions. They've only given up 72 points

in their first two games. I hardly understand why anyone would be criticizing the defensive coordinator. The BC Lions are back in action this Saturday in Calgary. Julio's going to join us in 730 to talk about it. No, no. They're going to Colona now. Oh, is it Colonas this weekend? I thought they're playing Calgary this weekend.

It's Colona. They've got Calgary and Edmonton in Calgary. Touchdown. Bologna begins this weekend. My apology. So Julia Caravetta is going to join us at 7.30. 8 o'clock, Ben Steiner is going to join the program. Canadian Soccer Reporter for Sports Illustrated and Goal.com. Another star-studded day at the World Cup yesterday. Tomorrow, Canada, back in action for an absolutely massive clash to decide who tops the group. Ben Steiner for some footie talk at 8 a.m. So we got a lot to get into. We got a big guest list ahead. Without further ado, Zach, let's tell everybody what happened.

Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed that? You missed that?

What happened is brought to you by? ATS traffic. Start with a career path in traffic safety, receive competitive wages, and training at one of Canada's best managed companies. Visit them online at ats.s.Traffic.ca. We will begin the show with the announcement of yesterday, the National Hockey League once again deciding to cram all of its pertinent news

into a three-week window in the off-season. The Hockey Hall of Fame, 2026 class got announced. Patrice Bergeron, Kerry Price, Keith Kichuk, Pecoranay, and Cindy Curley were elected as players. Brian Burke, former Vancouver Canucks General Manager, will be inducted as a builder. A lot to unpack from this one, Jason, as well. Yeah, well, it kind of coincides with a lot of news

that's happening right now. What a time for Keith Kachuk. to get in with the Ottawa senators vowing on the very same day to keep pushing forward after his son Brady forced his way to the Florida Panthers to play with Keith Kachuk's other son, Matthew. I wonder how much of a driving force Keith Kachuk was in getting Brady Kachuk to Florida, not in telling the Ottawa senators what to do, but in advance of, advising Brady what to do. Now, are you suggesting that a podcast co-hosted by the two brothers that often featured the father as a guest,

a podcast on which the dad openly asked about Brady's contractual situation in Ottawa? And how many years he had left on his contract? Are you suggesting? Are you suggesting at all that hockey hall of famer Keith Kachuk might have influenced Brady going to Florida? Yeah. I mean, there's lots of rumors about legal online one. Yeah, Keith Kachuk kind of. wanting this to happen and you know i i i i guess i don't blame it's not tampering well i guess i

guess i don't blame keith kuchuch for wanting that to happen who wouldn't want you know his two sons to play for a team that may very well go into next season as the stanley cup favorite i haven't looked at the odds yet though i i i they have to be you know with the return of barkoff the addition of brady Chuck, once they figure out their, their goaltending situation, I'm, I'm sure they're, they're the favorites. Keith Kachuk was one of the major faces of American hockey in the 90s, part of that 1996 World Cup team that beat Canada. And, you know, until, until recently, it was the miracle on ice, and it was the

1996 World Cup of hockey win for the Americans. Those were the big two. And we heard about the miracle on ice a lot. And now we're going to have to hear about another game that happened. But we'll skip past that. Kachuk like Jeremy Ronek, though, who was another face of American hockey in the 90s, and Ronek was inducted two years ago.

Those guys both never won a Stanley Cup. And I also wonder how much that has driven Keith Kachuk in his retirement. like he wanted to get his boys a Stanley Cup. I mean, yeah, again, you've got to think it's a major, major factor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without question. Okay, speaking of never winning a Stanley Cup, a couple of elite goalies who never won the cup were inducted as well

in Kerry Price and Pecker-Renay. They joined recent inductees Roberto Luongo and Henrik Lungquist, who never lifted the cup despite getting very close. All four of those guys made it to the Stanley Cup final. and lost, not to take anything away from those four guys. Nope. But I think we're just seeing more and more of it now. We're seeing these guys get into the Hall of Fame.

And it's harder and harder to win the Stanley Cup now. Sure. And there's going to be a lot more of them. Connor McDavid. Which goalies playing today, I'm wondering, are locks for the Hall of Fame. Ooh, that's a great question. I think you've got Brozky.

Yeah, he's in. Vasilevsky. He's in. Is Jonathan Quicks still active? He just retired. He was active last season. He's in. I think he's in.

Connor Hellebuck is on pace. Never won a Stanley Cup, though. But I think that Olympic gold is going to help him a lot. Don't forget about the Presidential Medal of Freedom. That's true. That helps. I'm not sure he'll lock yet because he hasn't won as much in the playoffs as the other three I mentioned,

Bovroski, Vasselovsky, and Jonathan Quick. I mean, all three of those guys have won Stanley Cups. I was looking at the stats last night, and I was like, I bet there's someone who would make the case for Freddie Anderson just because of how much he's won. And actually his numbers are, if you look at his same percentage, it's pretty high.

But that person would not be me. Not today. Who would make the case for Freddie Anderson. Okay, let's move on to Patrice Bergeron, because I have a question. Okay. Does Patrice Bergeron getting in on the first ballot make us feel any better or different about 2011?

Not that this was unexpected, but now that it's official, because I've always maintained that people never really appreciated how good that Bruins team really was at the time. Sure. large part because guys like Bergeron and Brad Marchand were still pretty young and maybe a bit underappreciated at that time.

Bergeron didn't win his first Selke until 2012 the year after and then he went on to win like six of them and was largely considered the best two-way player, you know, at the time. Certainly there were some others, but, you know, six Selkees says a lot. there were five first ballot Hall of Famers in that 2011 series. Three on the Canucks, the Siddins and Luongo, two on the Bruins with Chara and Bergeron. And then Marciano one day get in. He's going to get in one day.

Will he get in on the first ballot? I don't know. I mean, that's the difference. I mean, five first ballot Hall of Famers in a Stanley Cup series. And I still think Tim Thomas makes a strong case, although his career was relatively short. He's a weird one. you could make the argument that in a small window,

he was the best of all of the Hall of Fame goleys in his peer group. Luongo, Lundquist, now Renee, now Carrie Price. I mean, it was a small window, but when that, I mean, you consider over the course of two years, he was the elite of the elite. Now it was a short, short run of dominance. And you've seen this in other Hall of Fame.

My trophy was, you know, like a no-brainer that year as well. Yeah, without question. And to use that to circle back to your earlier point, I do think sometimes that's part of the reason why when we, when we look back on 2011, we look at it from a multitude of different angles because we've dissected it every imaginable as a market. One of the things that I think you're right about

that we don't often look at and give credit to is how good that Bruins team was, right? They were very good team. They were, I mean, tremendous, right? They should have won more than one Stanley Cup. Absolutely, right? When you consider that at that stage. think about it, they were failures.

That's a good way looking at it too. You know, they failed just as much as the Canucks, I would say. Equal failures. Yeah, but like Bergeron was 25 and Marchion was 22. And then it took Marcheon to go to Florida before he won another cup and Bergeron never won another one. But both those guys scored massive goals in game six and seven. Yeah, it's just interesting that that was their Bruins peak.

Yeah. It was in 2011. Okay, we got to mention Brian Burke to one of the more compelling figures in Vancouver sports history. it wasn't just that he was the general manager who pulled off the trade that brought the Cedines to the Canucks. It was the way he carried himself. It was the way he was so outspoken with the media,

how he would pick fights with reporters and kind of relish the fight. You don't really, you don't get guys like that anymore. No. That type of freewheeling personality doesn't exist as much anymore in a league where everyone seems very careful about what they say. And I kind of hope it swings back to the Brian Burke style where guys aren't afraid to be outspoken and demonstrative and bold. Maybe not necessarily picking fights with people. I mean, back then, you didn't have the whole notion of going viral.

No. And I think that's, okay, because I'm going to play a clip from. And some of you might actually like, you'll be almost offended by this clip. This is, this is Brian Burke who used to go on with Dan Russell, who was a fixture in the Vancouver sports media. He had a,

he had one of those late night call-in sports radio shows that little Jason listened to. And, you know, and once a week, and this is another crazy thing. Brian Burke would go on with Dan Russell. Brian on line one from Vancouver. And he would get interviewed by Dan Russell and he would take callers.

And by the way, Brian Burke was not the general manager at this point when he started doing this. He was working under Pat Quinn. I can't remember what his title was. Probably the director of hockey ops or a citizen general manager, whatever. It doesn't matter. but let me just repeat that. The Vancouver Canucks had an assistant general manager who would go on a sports radio show

once a week and mix it up with the fans. It was a different time, man. And the things that Berkey would say on that show, he did not care for a lot of the Vancouver media. And one in particular was Tony Gallagher. And I want to play a clip that is going to bring you back to, well, a time, if you're a younger listener,

you won't remember this time, and the older listeners will be like, kind of miss these times. It doesn't matter with Tony Gallagher. Like I said before in the air, Tony Gallagher's idea of an ideal assignment would be to cover a famine in Ethiopia because you would love the suffering.

I don't really respect Tony as a person or as a reporter. I don't like Tony. I won't talk to Tony. Why not take the high road? Why not just ignore them and just do your business as per usual? To take the high road and stay out of the gutter, you have to have someone that will do the same. Great example. We draft Alex Stoyanov.

Now, you asked me on the show, Dan, who do I think we'd get? And I said, I think we'll end up with Richard Vanfichuk, which we did. Now, the Philadelphia Flyers, the last team in the world you take would take a suite, takes Forsberg, and we end up with Alex Storienov. And what's the comment? not like isn't this a break for us the comment is they lied to us and that's Tony Gallagher's attitude Tony Gallagher is a guy that if he found

a wallet with 200 bucks and it would be mad if there wasn't 300 bucks in it that's his viewpoint so how much slack will I cut Tony Gallagher zero I have no respect for him Berkey you're in the hall fame better times better times

I mean a lot of people are going to focus obviously on the comments that he made about about Tony but how about that comment was like the Flyers, the last franchise you'd think would take a Swede. Yeah. I mean, that brings you back. So that was the 1991 draft, by the way,

case you're trying to put a timestamp on when this was. So it had to be somewhere after the 91 NHL entry draft. I assume it was either late in 91 or 92. So just a totally bygone era. Yeah. And I think it's great that Burke is being celebrated in the manner that he is because at times, even during, during the wild, wild west days

of the National Hockey League and outspoken executives and guys shooting from the hip with what they had to say, he still stood out as being a maverick. Like, even in that environment, he was very much the guy that probably said more, spoke more. And here's the

thing that I always appreciated about him. He had very hard opinions, very strong opinions, but they were always backed with, like, evidence and facts because he was a well-researched and well-schooled guy. Can I tell you a Brian Burke story?

You can. I don't know if I've even told you this. I think maybe I have. We're this deep into the relationship and we don't have stories to share? Or we do have stories to share that we haven't told each other yet. I was either in high school or in, I think it was in high school. And I was obviously pretty into sports as a high schooler. And I like to write.

And once in a while, little Jason, well, he's, he's getting older then. Medium, Jason. Already had back problems. I would write letters to the newspaper. And I wrote a letter to the newspaper that had something to do with like the unfair tax situation that Canadian hockey teams have to deal with, right?

Whatever. Sure. It was like you could get your letter printed in the paper. Something like that, right? I either Ced Brian Burke on it or the Canucks on it or the letter found its way to him. But I was at home. I was, again, I can't remember.

I was either, you know, late in high school, early in university. The phone rings. I pick it up. It's Brian Burke. You've never told me this story before. And I was like, he's like, is there Jason? I was like, hello, sir. He's like, there's Brian Burke here.

I'm like, okay. And I do not remember our conversation at all. And I think it was a very short conversation because he was like, this kid is like, does nothing to say or whatever, you know? Right, right, right. But he just said,

he called and he wanted to, he said he appreciated the letter. And like, that, that my friend is a bygone era. That's really cool. That's pretty great. Yeah.

And you'd be right. It is a bygone era. Like things like that. We need to find somebody from the Canucks front office that'll agree to come on and just get in fights with you guys. Just have strong opinion or something. That'll definitely happen. Once a week.

Do you think it's be one of the Sadiens? Yeah. Yeah. Turn one of them against you guys. Just turn one of the Sivians into a little perky-like character. Open up the phone lines. They used to be so friendly in the telemetry guys. They can talk to Andrew and Victoria and enjoy the experience that is.

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's, again, we're going way down memory road here, but that's part in parcel with doing the Hockey Hall of Fame announcements is you're doing a retrospective on everybody's career. And of all of the inductees yesterday, Burke's the one that has, I mean, even to this day, still the most tangible ties to Vancouver, right? You got to remember, and by the way, I did look it up

when we played that clip and he was, again, going on local sports talk radio to answer calls from callers, he was the director of hockey ops for the Vancouver Canucks, a super prominent position. Just going on and taking stick from the listeners and giving it back as good as he was getting. Well, he was on with, he was on, Berkey was on with Donnie and Dolly a few years ago,

and I listened to a clip last night. and he was explaining how he came to take that spot on Dan Russell's show. And, you know, Dan offered him the job. And then Pat Quinn, who was his boss, obviously had to give him permission. And he was like, yeah, sure, like, go for it. Like, because at the time, the Canucks were, so I think he got hired in 1987. the Canucks were an afterthought in this market. Yeah.

This is when Dolly would be like, the BC lines were the big, the big team in town. They were. The Canucks were not. And when Pat Quinn was hired, he told Berkey, listen,

we're going to be bad for a few years. So, you know, let's get the profile of the team up. And I think fans did appreciate it that. And then the Canucks drafted Trevor Linden, they got Pavel Burry.

And really things haven't been the same in Vancouver. since then. Because the Canucks at that point graduated to being a big boy team. And really, ever since then, they've been the number one team in town. Okay. I want to move on to the fallout from the Brady-Kachuk trade because Pierre LeBron, who originally broke the Brady-Kichick-Chuck trade, wrote about it for the athletic and he got some pretty good quotes anonymous quotes but still

one team executive said Sunday night in reaction this is going to be a crazy summer another exec said to Pierre LeBron we're becoming the NBA now now LeBron said that wasn't a positive thing or a negative comment it was just the reality

that the players are more and more in control of their futures and willing to be in control of their futures. Big part of it. As opposed to being like, well, I was drafted here. I'll play here. I guess I'll play here. I'm a hockey player. I play hockey.

And Pierre noted a bunch of different players that could be moved this offseason, starting with Dylan Larkin. He added Connor Hellebuck, Jason Robertson, Bowen Byram, and one name that is increasingly making the rounds, and believe it or not, this is an American player not playing in a Canadian market, but it is an American player. And Zach Werenski, apparently, lots of rumors about him. And LeBron writes, he has not asked for a trade, but teams around the league believe that's coming over the next 12 months. Now, did Zach Rorensky play for the U.S. Olympics?

Yeah. And is Columbus a very good team? Interesting. That's a game. So there is the going back to America element in all this. And that's going to be debated a lot, especially in Canada and on Canadian sports talk radio. And it's a valid conversation to have for sure. There's also the line that Pierre had here, we're becoming the NBA now, which he got from an anonymous team executive.

It might have not been said with disdain there to Pierre. but I've heard it countless times and I think it's it's small-minded thinking to be like, oh, we don't want to turn into the NBA. Not because you want to emulate the NBA, but because this was, I felt like this was always an inevitability that players were going to take more authority

and they were going to dictate where their career was going to go more. Yeah. And that isn't an NBA thing. That isn't a culture thing. That is a my shelf life in this league could, be short. My chance is to win, and we talked about this in the Hall of Fame conversations, it's very difficult to win a Stanley Cup. If I want to achieve these things, I cannot sit there and be patient. I need to be more assertive. I would call it

an assertive. Proactive. Yeah. And you know, again, I don't begrudge them at all. I was listening to Wal. I don't begrudge anyone that, if your main goal is winning and you've given it an honest effort with your team and you look at your team, and you look at your team, and go, where are we going to be five years from now? And if your answer isn't anywhere different than you are, I don't blame you. But it also, to that point, though, like, even if you do hold some animosity or a grudge as a fan base,

sure. That's great. That is, that means it, one, you care and you're emotionally invested. And two, it's the drama and theater of this whole thing that we spend so much time covering. I don't need to have a league where a bunch of, guys who played endless, you know, reps together in summer hockey and youth and junior and are all buddies

and all really like each other off the guys. I think that you know, having fans dug in and genuinely disliking other guys for being traders and backstabbers. That's timeless stuff in sports, right? And the Sends hate Brady right now.

And it's a great thing. And I know it sounds like it. It's a great thing. And I know it sounds weird because the Ottawa senators and Zach, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're worst team today than they were yesterday because they don't have Brady in the lineup anymore. But do you think that game against Florida when Florida visits Ottawa next year? You think that's going to be a big deal? 100%. Those players are going to be playing with a bigger fire under them than they ever have.

And that's already, Florida usually mops the floor with Ottawa, even with Brady in the line. Who are you going to cheer more against next year? Florida or Vegas? Florida. Yeah, me too. Florida. I would cheer for Toronto if they were against. I'm going to be like, I'm going to go back to hating Brad Marchon because in the last few years,

I've kind of developed a grudging respect for him. Not anymore. And there are times that I'm just like, damn it, I might like this guy. But now I'm just going to go back and I was going to hate them all. Even Barkoff,

it was like, you're overrated. You're no Bergeron. Never cared for you. Damn it. No, I like Bergeron. So I'll say this just to put,

and this is the perfect accentuation on this and encapsulation of everything that we're talking about. Is Brady and Matthew Kinnchuck are going to appear on the Pat McAfee show today to talk about all the things that have happened to them and their family over the last 24 to 48 hours. So I just want to address one text that came in. It said, great attitude, bruff. Let's just tell all the kids, if you can't win,

then just joined Johnny's team. They won it all last year. I said that if you've given it an honest try and you look at your team and you see it's a disaster, you only get one career. Yeah, they're not kids. Right? They're not kids.

I don't even know what the point of this text is. Like, no, don't tell your kid to join Johnny's team. But if your kid makes it to the NHL, yeah, tell him to join Johnny's team and go win a Stanley Cup. Like, what are we talking about here? Yeah. It's not a kid's sport. It's a multi-billion dollar business that these guys are dealing with. And you know what?

If your kid worked for a company that was as dysfunctional as the Vancouver Canucks have been and had an opportunity to join a better company, would you as a parent say, no, stick with this company that is super dysfunctional and everyone's fighting and it's not really succeeding at all. And your son is miserable, but there's an opportunity to go to a better company. Would you be like, no, stick it out with this company

because loyalty is important. Come on, man, grow up. Kids are in sports to learn life lessons. Adults are in sports to make money. Keith Kachak went through an entire career where he didn't win a Stanley Cup and he wanted it for his kids. I mean, I don't see it 100% like that.

It's not just making money, but you're in sports. You're in sports to have great experiences as well. And guess who wasn't having great experiences in Vancouver? A guy like Quinn Hughes. Yep. Look, am I, am I a fan of Quinn Hughes? No, because I think there were,

you know, I don't think he was a terrific captain. and I'm a fan of the Vancouver Canucks. Unfortunately, I can't get out of this. No. But let's not compare kids' sports in multi-billion dollar businesses like the NHL, which are as cutthroat with the players as the players are now being as cutthroat

with the teams. Before we go to break, I need to tell you about JanPro. Cleaner workplaces start with consistent cleaning. JanPro helps businesses stay clean day after day. Start clean, stay clean, visit them online. at Janpro.ca. Greg Wischinski, coming up next on the Halford and Brough show

on SportsNet 650. Canucks talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on SportsNet 6.50 or wherever you get your podcast. 635 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody, Halford Brough.

SportsNet 650. Halpernbrough in the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. They're ready to give you the financial fresh start you deserve with no judgment or upfront fees. Visiting today at Sands. trustee.com. We are in Hour 1 of the program. Greg Wyshinsky from ESPN is going to join

us in just a moment here. Hour 1 is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. To the Able Auctions hotline we go. Our next guest is from ESPN.

Greg Woshensky joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Good morning, Gregory. How are you? will the last American player to leave Canada turn off the lights I was wondering how you were going to start

I knew it was going to be something clever you did not disappoint I don't like that you've had such a happy hockey season I don't care for it either as a matter of fact I don't like it

boys boys come on how long have you known each other I'm a New York Jets fan and a New York Mets fan everything in balance everything in balance but by the way can I just say

I find it a little frustrating that Quinn Hughes gets roped into the U.S. national team gold medal group text conspiracy theory. Like, here's the part you predated that. It's true. Predated it by a good margin. So I don't like when he gets included in the, we're having pops at the Olympic Village cafeteria at 2 in the morning and talking about how Connor Hellebuck should leave Winnipeg. That's not, that's not on Quinn.

No. Quinn's a different story. Yeah, well, that's on the Canucks. and their history. What have you heard about that, by the way? I mean, for us, we've joked about it, like, what happened at the Olympics? There must have been some very interesting team dinners. Have you actually heard anything concrete about what happened over in Italy, if anything?

No, I haven't, but I do think that one of the things that we're missing here in so far as, like, the recruiting of it all. and maybe one of the reasons why, say, Dill and Larkin's list was what it was, is that you had, you also had after the Olympics this Matthew Cucuk-South Florida ambassador tour where they're going to clubs. And I know Larkin already liked the elbow room. And, like, there was a bit of that whole recruitment ship happening, too. So I don't know, I don't know of anything concrete as far as, like, the boys having, you know, made a blood oath or something in Italy about all. all leaving their Canadian teams. But I also think that it's kind of overstated. Look, every situation's unique.

Brady wants to play with his brother. You know, Matthews doesn't want to go through a rebuild if he ends up, you know, leaving. Guess what? Elaine Hudson and Cole Cawfield, pretty happy right now in Montreal. Like, nothing about them. We never hear anything about them trying to escape.

So I think it's a very situation-by-situation basis. And also lost in the stove boys is that like, like if Connor Hullabuck gets traded this this summer, and we can talk about whether that's going to happen in a second, like he signed an extension. And Brady Kucke signed an extension. Like it's not as if these guys were just like drafted there. And then all of a sudden they were like,

we're out. Like they really made a goal of it in these Canadian cities before they've decided that, you know, I'm of a certain age. I've got a family. I want to move back to the States. But hold on. But that would almost lend Creed,

the fact that something significant has happened because this, it's hard to deny that this feels like some, at some level of movement, I know they've all got their individual quirks and pieces and identifiable characteristics to why each guy wants to move. But all of it happening at the same kind of time, because you can also put Dylan Larkin in this conversation. I don't necessarily think it's leaving Canada to go to America, but in what we've coined and now overuse the phrase, the player empowerment era, it certainly feels like something happened where everyone was like, hey, let's just start calling our shots and let's start calling our own shots right now.

So let's talk about that for a second because I think Larkin is an important side-impose here. Why is he leaving Detroit besides the fact that he hates his general manager? Because the team hasn't won. He hasn't won. He hasn't won. You know, Brady hasn't won.

And in fact, in this year, was one of the reasons they didn't win. So in all of these cases, it comes back in some ways to the primal instinct of these players to want to be in a situation where they want. And more than, hey, you know, we're having, you know, Italian wine and talking about, you know, why we should all leave Canada, maybe the simpler answer is they won a gold medal.

And they felt what that felt like. And they understood what winning means. And they realized, oh, my God, in my such current situation, I'm not going to be able to feel that in the foreseeable future. so I best try to use my leverage to get somewhere where I can. But to your point, though, Halford, I was talking to some agents yesterday about this trend, right? But more than that, I was talking about the extremely interesting flip when it comes to no movement clauses. No movement clauses used to be a way for players to protect themselves from teams trading them without having any recourse and uprooting their families and taking their kids at a school.

And it's flipped to where now the no movement clause can be weaponized by a player to say, hey, in two years when I'm a UFA, I ain't coming back. So best maximize your chance to get something for me now. Oh, and by the way, I could pick where that's going to be. I think it's probably Eichol, maybe, was the first time we saw someone really empower themselves to do this and kind of leverage his opportunity to go to Vegas. obviously the surgery was part of that too, but it was a trade request. We saw it here with Ryan Kessler, but that was a bit of a different situation.

That was a different situation. But like that's a big change for me. More so than all these U.S. guys leave in Canada, it's sort of the weaponization of the no-movment clause in a way that is completely counter to the way that we used to see these things applied 10 years ago. And we'll probably ultimately lead to do a change in the CBA to allow teams to try to get out of these things. Yeah. In some way. Wish, will you acknowledge that Canadian teams are currently at a disadvantage? A disadvantage in terms of what?

Versus American teams in terms of attracting talent. Is it a structural disadvantage with the tax situation? I don't even, maybe even the weather. I don't know if you can call that a structural disadvantage, but. No, you can. Because we were talking yesterday, like, how do Canadian teams respond to this? And our answer was kind of lay down the gauntlet and be like, you know, passive-aggressively say, you know, well, if you want to go win a Stanley Cup in Carolina and you can have a Stanley Cup parade in front of a parking garage or whatever.

Hey, listen, challenge your players and be like, hey, if you want to go somewhere and win a Stanley Cup, where it doesn't matter as much, then fine, go do that. But we want people that want the pressure. We want people that want to play in a country where hockey is number one. So you've said a lot. Yes. I'm still trying to figure out how a guy in Columbus feels about you saying that American teams have an inherent advantage in attracting talent.

No, listen, listen, that's what I'm trying to hash out here. Yeah. No, but what you've done is you've now triggered me a little bit because I do think there's been a lot of coded language around Brady in the last few days in which we're kind of disparaging non-traditional markets in a way that we did maybe back 10, 15 years ago. When you're talking about they're not being pressure, when you're talking about leaving for the countryhood lifestyle of these teens, like you're basically saying that there's nothing there that is inherently as challenging as being a Canadian market. That's exactly what I'm saying. It's less challenging. But there's challenge. Are you telling me that there's not pressure in Vegas to win that you don't know from year to year whether Bill Foley is going to be like, you're the next one gone despite your contract?

I think there's less pressure there. There's less. Well, I mean, that's. Well, ask Mitch Barner. Is there less pressure in Vegas or Toronto? Is there more pressure in Vegas than there isn't, is there more pressure in Winnipeg than there is in Vegas? just being a Canadian market doesn't inherently mean

that there's more pressure than there are in some American markets now granted there are some American markets that aren't as pressure filled as a Canadian market but I think a lot of this talk about like you know you're shoving off to the states

where nobody cares about hockey and this out and the other thing I don't know I just followed the Carolina hurricanes on a playoff run and I'm pretty sure at the end if they didn't win the cut they would have been crushed

like it would have been emotionally devastated by it and so I think I think the pressure comes internally. It comes from ownership. It comes from different places. Just because it's not coming from the Steve Simmons of Raleigh doesn't mean that there isn't it's not that, though. It's not

the writers. It's the fans. It's the social media. I mean, we've just been talking about it a lot with whether it's Marner talking about it or whoever, you know, we were talking up here about Canadian soccer players and some of the things

they deal with on social media. And I think that is much worse in a Canadian market. The two things I'll say about this. One, the ring's the same size, no matter where you win it. The idea that there's so much more valor for having won it in a Canadian city versus an American city is nonsense. It's winning the cup.

It's why they all do it. The second thing is that you may have answered your own question. You're like, why are Canadian teams at a disadvantage versus American team? So, okay, well, you know, beaches, taxes, the whole thing. or the you know the valor in winning a cup in a Canadian city because of all the pressure well the reason they're not they're not doing this anymore is because of the pressure because of the psychosis of fans media and scrutiny and everything else like you know no I know and that's why I was trying to turn it on its head that's why I was trying to turn it I wasn't doing it intentionally to trigger you I was just like I'm you know we've got fans texting in right now they're like I'm worried about this like can't Canada has done a long time. Is this a real problem? But the premise of your question is that whether Canadian teams can retain talent

by pretending that winning the cup in one of their cities is more valorous than winning a cup in Raleigh, which is insane. Like, it's the same cup. It's the same ring. The legacy would be much different. It doesn't matter. Yes, it does. Because they're going to, right, because they're going to put a statue out in front of,

the Maple Leaf Arena. Sure. Okay, great. Fine. You could still, you're still getting a car dealership appearance fees in Raleigh when you're, when you're 45. Because you want a cup there. I mean, we can agree to disagree, but, but, but, but, but the story. Chadler Rose and see how many, uh, appearance fees he still gets.

Chadler Rose. I mean, wish I don't think it's any different than when the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004. It was a bigger deal than when, I don't know, whatever, any of the other World Series. Like it was, it was, it was a big deal, and we remember that more. And those guys are more lionized than some of the other World Series teams. Some championships matter more than others.

Jason, they hadn't won a title in like a hundred years. Well, let's get to that point in Canada. Wish. Sure. No, I completely agree. I mean, with the Leafs, I mean, obviously the Leafs are in Vancouver are special situations just because of the history there. The country, going back to 93, I don't know.

I know it's not, you know, the Red Sox curse, but it's getting, which I was in high school in 1993. I'm not close to that anymore. He's not. I don't know. This whole notion of like, it's not, it's not even, it's not, it's not about, like, whether you win anymore. It's where you win it is insane to me.

We've all covered the cup. It's the hardest thing to win. Yeah, I have covered cups. And I've been in L.A. before I'm being like, this doesn't seem like a big deal to the city. Well, that's because there's a lot to do in L.A. that's my point. We have so little.

But I just think that, but again, it's just like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, of the worthiness of championships and the worthiness of markets that makes me feel very uncomfortable because like, I understand what you're saying about the pressures and marter and the whole bit. You're not wrong. But I think there's a part of you and the part of a lot of Canadian fans this week that are like, okay, well, if Brady goes and. wins in Florida, that's not going to be as important as if he had won in Ottawa. And that's insane. It's the same trophy. It's the same thing his name's going to be on. And it's the same

16-team tournament through which he's going to have to perform in order to win it. I think the tournament is the same. I think there's something to be said about the team and the environment in which you win it. Sure. And in his case, I think the intriguing thing is that he's going to end up being just like Marner, which is a guy that didn't necessarily have maybe what it took the shoulder to load on his own as a superstar. But the minute he walks into a room where there's a bunch of guys that have rings and, you know, he can rely on to step up in big moments,

then that he can be more comfortable with that. I think it's much more about Brady than it is about anything else. But, again, like, I tread lightly, my friend, as far as this whole cupworthiness thing as if, you know, winning one anywhere isn't as important as winning one in the Great White North. Well, the biggest question now moving forward is, what the players all think about it. Because that was the conversation Jason and I had yesterday. We're speaking to Greg Wyshinsky from ESPN here, by the way, on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650.

The question we had yesterday was like, is the way that we think in our line of thinking, is it aligned with the players? Do the players think this way? Because the way that things are swinging right now, it certainly doesn't feel that way, unless maybe you find a Canadian kid who's hardwired the same way that wants to go back home and win a cup and, you know, have the valor or the worthiness of winning it in Canada as opposed to America. but this was a supposed to be a pivot point to something you brought up earlier. You mentioned Winnipeg. You mentioned Connor Hallibuck. Is he going to be the next guy to move this offseason? It's possible. The way I understand it is that they're taking calls.

They're not necessarily being like he's not going to be here next year. They're taking calls. And there may be a point from what I've been able to gather in some reporting in the last couple days. There may be a point where Kevin Shevoldeoff goes back to the people calling and says, here is the thing that I would need to make this happen. I don't think we're quite there yet. It's not to say we won't get there,

but the sense I get is not necessarily like it is, you know, days away. That could change with one phone call, as we always say. But the sense I get, it's, it's, Helibuck seemed unhappy, calls are coming in, the Winnipeg Jets are very much entertaining them, but aren't necessarily engaged in the, you know, final stages of, you know, last call on trying to buy a house, let's say, you know what I mean? So like, that's kind of where we are on it. Kay Wish, I know you got to go watch the Kach brothers on McAfee.

So we'll let you go. Enjoy that. Enjoy the rest of it today. Enjoy the draft on Friday. Do you think that conversation will be as intellectual as ours wish? No, it'll be a bunch of lungheads all, all tossing notes about, you know, where the best place to, where the best tiki bar is in Fort Lauderdale. I'll be like, when you go shopping for tank tops, what are the top three things?

you're looking for. But that's why that's why the people listen to the three of us and respect our conversations with being highly intelligent and engaging. And you know, it's a big tent and there's room for the McAfee's stuff too. That's true.

Wish, thanks for doing this. Nobody wants to see us in tank tops. Nobody wants to see that. I don't even want to see myself in a tank top. See you, pal. See you, buddy. Bye. Greg Machineski from ESPN here on the Halford & Breft Show

on Sportsnet, 650. Okay, say that I controlled myself well. Why would I need to say that? Because... Yeah, I wish for a little... I mean, I love the guy, but come on. It means way more to win a cup in Canada than it doesn't... like 90% of the American markets.

Way more. And most American fans would agree with that too. Unless it's like an original six market, that's the exception to the rule. Most American markets just, it's not the same thing down there. Can I just say one thing, though? Like, none of it ultimately matters if the players don't feel the same way. And that's where I keep trying to come back to there. The players don't know because they've never seen a Stanley Cup in Canada. There's another valid point.

It's become such a... I was under the impression it was impossible. Yeah. Hey, I'm not joking. That might play into it. This is like, this is a very tall task trying to do this.

Wait a minute. How old are you if you're born in 93? You're what? In your mid-30s? Yep. You're mid-30s? 33. Yeah.

Halford and Brough. Good on math. I don't know. It's 26 plus... Oh, yeah. Halford, abruf, good on math. You're in your mid-30s. You're 33.

And again, see, the Dunbar Lumber text message in basketball right now, hordes of people saying, breath is right, wish is wrong. And that must really make you feel good because that's all you really want out of life. It's going to be a good day. That's all he really wanted out of that conversation anyway. I just wanted to start this to get some validation. Yeah, yeah. Tell me I'm right. But the toughest part that I've got with this right now is I truly don't know

how many players of a generation that, let's be honest, here as guys, you're 50, I'm 46, we're pretty far removed from the culture and the generation of NHL players. Right? We're pretty far removed. Two decades gone at least at a minimum.

I'm not sure how they feel about this dynamic. I'm really not. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure there's kids playing in the NHL right now that are Canadian and proud to wear the Maple Leaf internationally and want nothing more than to play for a Canadian team

and to win a Stanley Cup in a Canadian market. But I'm not sure how many, and I'm not sure how many of them are the top players. There's also a culture that develops across a league all the time. And it can change. The culture can change. Right now, the culture is, wouldn't it be cool to play in the United States for a very good team in a warm weather climate where you don't have to deal with all the nonsense you have to deal with in Canada. Yeah.

That's developed league-wide. And that culture can change. There was a time where the culture was, why the hell would you want to go play with the Florida Panthers? Like, that can change. And it has. And are there structural issues right now that are making it challenging for Canadian teams? Yeah, there are.

But it can change. You can swing that. And we've seen it a little bit with, you know, Would I want to go play in Edmonton with Connor McDavid? Some people have taken that. Not enough of them. But, you know, Drysidal did decide to stay. Yeah.

You know, if you put together, I am convinced, look, let me put it this way. If the Canucks over the next few years draft enough good young players that they can become a team with a lot of promise. say a team like San Jose or even a team like Anaheim where you've got a good young core and you're like, man, these guys still need to learn a few things. They need to add a few more things.

But man, this team could be really, really good. Vancouver could attract players. Vancouver could become a destination franchise. Not all hope is lost. But the only thing the Canucks can do is do that. Like, they don't have time to whine about all this stuff. They need to take care of their own house first.

And that is something they just haven't done. You know? So don't worry too much about all this stuff. Because it's not particularly relevant right now for the Canucks anyway. They have some other stuff to do. And then maybe, maybe it's not even a factor. And if you're, you never know how the dog. is going to work or, you know, where the culture of the league is going to go.

You know, people might get tired of playing in Florida or Vegas. Vegas could easily, I'm telling you right now, God, that was a Dolly well. In 10 years, Vegas could be playing in front of a half empty building. They could. There's no question about that possibility. If they tap out with all their talent and they're like, wait a minute, we got no draft picks. And then all of a sudden.

and, you know, hockey's kind of forgotten in Vegas because they've got the NBA there, they've got everything there, it's Vegas. You know, they could, that could easily flip back. Okay, before we go to break, I need to remind you that the Duick Auto Group is the official automotive sponsor of Halford & Brough. Find out why nobody beats a Doick deal, why nobody has this,

1926. Visit Doick GM on Marine Drive, visit them downtown, visit them in Richmond, visit them online at the duikato Group.com. Hour two of the program coming up, we've got an open segment next. You're listening to the Halford & Brough show on Sportsnet, 650. Thank you.