Halford & Brough in the Morning - Caitlin Clark Has Changed Women's Sports Forever

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with Sports Illustrated senior writer Conor Orr (1:42) about Russell Wilson, who sat down to chat with Russ about if he's still got it, and will be able to bounce back in New York, plus they talk with famed USA Today sportswriter Christine Brennan (24:43) on her new book, "ON HER GAME: Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women’s Sports". This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

702 on a Wednesday! I forgot it's a Eurod a Wednesday. I forgot it's a Euro Dance Wednesday. I have been reminded that it's a Euro Dance Wednesday. You're listening to the Haliford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. This is a very sun's coming out, morning has begun kind of song. Is this better than the last one? Better than the last one. The last one was real bad. The last one was a video game. Yep.

That was not a dance party. Felt like it got made on some kid's Casio. Maybe 15, 20 years ago. One for two is a pass. Halvern and Brev for the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for that help with over 3,000 five star reviews. Visit them online at Sands-Trustee.com. We are now in our two of the program.

Connor Orr, senior writer from Sports Illustrated is going to join us in a little bit to talk about his latest piece on Russell Wilson. Our two of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominick at jason.mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec Footwear and Orthotics working together with you and Step.

Our next guest has a new article in Sports Illustrated. Russell Wilson thinks New York is the perfect place for his next chapter. We go now to the Power West Industries hotline. Connor Orr, senior writer for Sports Illustrated, joins us here on the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Connor. How are you? I'm doing well, thanks, how are you?

We're good, thanks for taking the time to do this. So, like many authors of their most recent articles, I always ask what the inspiration was. Why did you decide now to go and write about Russell Wilson? Well, it's kind of strange, right? We're the same age, Russell and I. I started covering the NFL during his rookie season and I think an article that we did together in 2020 was like either my

first or my second cover story for SI. So you know you start to get to think a little bit the older that you get and just about kind of life and how everything's happening and I thought you know hey he's right down the road for me in New York now and why not give him a call and see if he wants to play catch and just talk about what it's like to kind of be getting old, you know? And so, yeah, that's pretty much the Genesis behind it. And what did Russ have to say about getting old?

Although he's got a new chapter here in New York, at least according to him. Well, I mean, I think that that was kind of the thing that I was searching for, right? Is like, you know, did the last three years kind of erode that relentless positivity and really, you know, what I wanted to find out beyond that too was what's the genesis of that and how do you keep that going

after so long when positive things aren't happening to you but I mean Russell said he feels great you know you know break out the breaking news alert here but an athlete in the offseason said he feels has been as good as he's ever felt in his life you know but you know he said he feels like he's 25 again you know some of the coaches that I spoke to you on the back end you know really kind of are talking about the fact that he did a nice job in terms of the mini camp and all that stuff. So we'll see, we'll see what he looks like.

Did you have any moments where you rolled your eyes at all at what he had to say or were you, or is his, I guess, earnestness, is do you like, how do, how do you, how do you react to some of the things he said? Or maybe he's saying different things now. Well, so here's the thing. Like, I think I went into it like anyone else. I mean, you know, I I've written about him a lot.

Um, you know, I know what happened in Denver and I think you have a pretty good idea of what happened in Pittsburgh. And you know, when he, when he does things that are kind of Russell-y, you know, for example, you know, within 10 minutes of us talking together, he had found two kids walking down the street and was giving them life advice and autographs and like all this stuff. And he's very much the Russell Wilson brand guy. And so I went into that knowing full well that that was what was going to happen, but I think what kind of changed my mind on it was, you know, just really

pressing him as aggressively as I could on, on why this happened, like why he feels the need to be that way. And, uh, and that's kind of what I found, like kind of the more interesting part of the story, at least for me, you know, and what was that? So he was telling, talking a lot about this is the 15th anniversary of his dad passing away and before his dad had died, he wrote him a letter and his dad was really self critical when he was alive.

Like his dad was tremendously successful as a human but always used to talk about how he wished he was more successful and you know some of the things you know just something that people would be surprised I guess to hear from a guy who really created this incredible family and so he wrote Russell a letter right before he passed away and Russell kind of has this in his head almost constantly like you know if I have to write this for my kids at any time, at any point in time, what am I going to put into it? And I think when that's your driving factor, and something like that happens to you, especially at a younger and more impressionable age, you're going to approach life a little differently, you know?

And I think that understanding that really kind of connected some dots, at least for me on that front. So it's funny, I've kind of come full circle on Russell Wilson and just to give you some context, Mike and I are both pretty big Seahawks fans and I loved Russell Wilson when he was here for most of the time. I mean, he helped deliver a Super Bowl

to a fan base that badly wanted one. And I know people say, wow, it was about the defense. I was like, no, they wouldn't have done it without him. And even after those Super Bowls, he played at a really high level. But then, I say this jokingly, but it's kind of serious too. I went through maybe my biggest sports breakup of all time. Just because like I felt like his ego got out of control and he started talking about his legacy all the time. And you heard reports about how important winning an MVP is and then he gets traded to Denver and he's like,

I don't want to just win one Super Bowl. I want to win multiple Super Bowls. And then the Russell Wilson stuff went, went crazy. Everyone made fun of him for he was, you know, a bust in Denver. And now I've kind of come back to being like, you know what, like I kind of hope he has success because I feel like it's been enough, you know, like it's been enough of being, hearing people ridiculing him. Do you get where I'm coming from that? And do you think he has the chance to be successful? Because, you know, watching him in Pittsburgh last season, I don't know if it was Russ or

it was the offense, but like he didn't have that explosive ability. And at times he looked like he was just checking down the whole game. It's interesting, right? It's like, you know, he said it about his stats, like when I pressed him on it, he's like, what? Like, I'm not allowed to have a career? And he's kind of right in terms of like, you know,

I think that we turn, because of the personal and because of sort of that personality shift, we kind of turned as a sports viewing public on the statistical and you know, the season that got him kicked out of Denver was 26 touchdowns and eight picks. If you would have played the whole season in Pittsburgh last year, 25 touchdowns and eight picks. Like Drew Breeze, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady each had, I think, four or five of those seasons where they had those numbers or less, and we don't talk about them. That would have been like almost a career year for Ben Roethlisberger.

So it's one of these like crazy things where it's like, you know, I think Russ was going through something certainly after the Legion of Boom and everything fell apart. I think he probably got some bad advice or didn't take the advice that was given to him at that time. And then I think that that was sort of the grist for all of us to be like, ah, you know, forget this guy, you know? And, and I think it's interesting because like, he's still growing up and, and that was kind of what I wanted to convey a little bit

in the article too, is like, we're both 37. I just turned 37. I just had another kid. He just had another kid. We're still trying to figure this thing out. And all the meanwhile, this guy's one good season away from being in the Hall of Fame, which is crazy, because we're not talking about him that way.

We're speaking to Connor Orr from Sports Illust on the health of the rough show on sports net 650 With regards to the team that he's joining Connor How much did you guys discuss what type of success how much success? Russ can have with the New York Giants because this is a football team that went six and eleven two years ago and had a miserable 2024 where they went three and fourteen Yeah, I mean he said that you, being able to work with Malik neighbors and, you know, in typical Russ fashion can already name a bunch of plays that he ran last year and the down in the distance and

what neighbors did on the play and why he feels like he's such a special guy. And so I think that, you know, are they, is this a playoff team? No. Um, they have the hardest schedule in the NFL by far. I don't, I don't really even think it's even close. And I think they get what the AFC West and the NFC North as out of, you know, out of conference opponents next year. So it's an absolute gauntlet. And it's one of those situations where can he effectively just kind of hold the fort down, I think, until they're ready to turn it over to Jackson Dart.

And I think a measure of success for him would be can you keep them on the bench for a season? You know, can you keep the Giants at least moderately interesting into November and December? And you know, I'm not ready to say no. You know, again, 26 touchdowns and eight picks, if you were to replicate that in New York, I mean, based on what they've had from Daniel Jones the last couple years, I mean, that is a market improvement.

You know, it's funny, and I'm glad that you mentioned Jackson Dart there, because all I could keep thinking about with this dynamic was when Kurt Warner was with the Giants and then he had to cede the throne to Eli Manning, and now you've got Russell Wilson there, and they spent first round draft capital on Jackson Darts. So he's obviously in their plans in a major way.

How much of a looming shadow or figure is Dart in all of this? Well, I mean, it's sort of like, you know, it's funny. It's like, I think maybe the day or one of those days that Russell and I were talking, you know, at almost the same time, right, Jackson Darts in the booth at Yankee Stadium, right, doing a couple of innings with WFAN. And so it's one of those things where it just feels like, you know, both of these,

there's a lot of air in the room and both of them can probably take a good amount of it up. And what does that look like as the season goes on? You know, who's going to win that battle. And what does that look like as the season goes on? You know who's going to win that battle. But for Russ, somebody who's so determined, I think, to turn his career around and to make this like a chapter in his story.

I mean, I'm really interested in how long he can keep Jackson on the bench. The article is, Russell Wilson thinks New York is the perfect place for his next chapter. You can check it out at SI.com right now. Connor, thank you very much for taking the time to do this today. Very cool piece, very well done. I appreciate you talking to us this morning.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks, Connor. That's Connor, our senior writer from Sports Illustrated here on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. He's on the bench by week 10. Yeah, probably. Today the NHL will release the regular season schedule. The whole thing is coming out, I think around 10 o'clock.

10 AM. Our time. NHL Network's doing a big one hour special, unveiling. They're going to go through every game in the season. Every single game. Tuesday night, November 14th, Columbus, Florida. It is the Stanley Cup champs, but it's in Columbus. The Canucks will open the season.

They give us a little teaser. They'll open the season. Against? At Rogers Arena on October 9th against of course, Calgary. Nice. So the way the Canucks schedule has gone in recent years, they either play Calgary. Nice. So the way the Canucks schedule has gone in recent years, they either play Calgary or maybe sometimes Edmonton and then fairly quickly they head out on the

road. They go back East for four or five games. You'll remember last season. How could I forget? They started with Calgary, blew a three goal lead. Twice. And lost in overtime and that was the, well there are a few things there that was like,

ooh, C-Labs, doesn't look great. Daniel Sprong scored and they made a big mistake in their second game at home against Philadelphia. Never played again. Might have, I don't even know. That was also a loss. Yes. And then they didn't get their first win

until their fourth game of the season, and that was back East. So we'll see if it looks similar. We know they're gonna start against Calgary. Do they head out on the road for a big road trip after that? Or do they play another game at home like they did last season against Philadelphia? We'll see. It's exciting that the schedule is coming out already. We're talking about all the storylines heading into the season and I'm kind of like, I want the summer. I need a break from the Canucks, but also I'm just so curious.

I'm so curious to see how this looks. Like, is it, so people are texting, they're like, this team is never gonna be able to move on onto the media and fans stop talking about the Miller-PD Rift. But you can't really stop talking about it until the team actually turns the page. And we see evidence that it's a fresh

group and it's a new group and I want to see obviously what Pedersen looks like I want to see what the team looks like under the new head coach Adam Foote I'm really curious about this and you know last season that first game against Calgary it really set the table for for the season they blew leads which was a problem for the team all year long and at the end of the day they lost the game they underperformed they didn't look like the same team from the year before and it was a it was a bad year, man. It was a bad year.

Well, they also lost at home. And that was a major, major theme from last year was their inability to collect two points on a regular basis in home games. I'm not going to lie, though, after the first period of the first game of last season, I was very excited about the prospects for what was to come over the subsequent 81.

They were up four one. They were up three nothing after 12 minutes in the game. Sprung, Besser, Garland. Do you remember, Canucks fans, how much optimism there was? How much excitement and energy there was in the air? Brock Besser. I thought they were going to the conference finals.

Brock Besser had two goals in the first period coming off 40 goal regular season and that great playoff performance. Right. He would score 23 more on the season. So that was a problem. Things that game in its totality summed up the season in a lot of ways.

Another thing, an overtime loss. But the first period, man, I remember being very excited. You know what I remember? It felt business-like. They scored twice on the power play. They were just, and it just felt like, okay, this is a team that we're supposed to beat. Calgary is a team that we should take care of this year

because we're coming off a 100 plus point season and 50 plus wins. This is the kind of team we're supposed to beat. The weird thing was that for 20 minutes, they looked apart. They looked like a team that was confident in its abilities. And you know, there's certain teams that have swagger in the NHL, but I think the most glowing example right now

is the Florida Panthers. They just know there's certain things they can do to other teams. And that comes with winning, first and foremost. Understanding that there's different ways to win. And then I think understanding that there's certain teams that you're just better than. Even though the NHL is made up of the best players

in the world and there's very fine margins sometimes between good and bad. There's some teams that you just know you're supposed to beat. And in the first period of that game, the opener too, nonetheless, the Vancouver Canucks felt like that. What happened in subsequent days and weeks and months was,

and you heard this from comments, right from the top of the organization. I remember when Alveen's, you know, I'm paraphrasing here, but Alveen essentially said they didn't come in with the kind of hunger and desire. And humility. And humility that they needed. And there's a fine line between thinking you're good and then actually being good.

And I think if that first period was a microcosm of something, it was that the job wasn't done after 20. Like they kind of sat back and rested. Yes, he loves had a poor performance in that, but you can't blow a three nothing and four one lead at any time in the NHL. That's a game you have to close out, especially at home, especially in your opener.

And especially against Calgary. Like Calgary wasn't a, look, I know Calgary had an impressive year last year for them, but they still didn't make the playoffs. Now, again, if I want to give some credit to Calgary, they did prove throughout the year that they were a pretty resilient bunch. Well, that, that, I think that probably game, set them up for the season and Rocket and Langley, Texan, and remember the year before

when they smoked Edmonton in the first game. I sure do Rocket. That was the start of a good season for them, a surprisingly good season. I remember that Edmonton game and being like, what is going on here? And you know, a lot of us were like, well, that was fun, but you know, it's not gonna last. And then it somehow did. Justin and Suri writes in to the Dunbar Lumber text message in basket at 650 650.

After that first period last year, I specifically remember texting my buddy saying, brother, this is gonna be an excellent year. It was not an excellent year. Yeah, I had the exact same feeling. I was doing, I distinctly, distinctly remember doing the notes for the next show the morning after and trying to draw the parallels between back-to-back season openers where they thumped, not beat, thumped.

Thumped the Alberta teams. You had your prep ready to go out in the first period? I was like, last season we kicked it off by destroying Edmonton and this year we kicked it off by destroying Calgary. Oh, you were using we too. Using the royal we in the notes. Then it became they. Those guys suck. We had we had a four one lead and then they blew it.

Those guys were no good. Second and third period. And that's how that conversation went. So, yeah, by the way, in case you missed it and you're just tuning in, the reason we're bringing all this up is that the NHL full slate of regular season games is going to be announced at 10 o'clock this morning and the Canucks have already announced a little tease for 10 a.m. that they're gonna open this season exactly the same fashion as last year with the home game against the Calgary

Flames. Okay Christine Brennan is gonna join us next and she is a famous sports writer written a lot about women's sports, figure skating, and now her beat is the WNBA and specifically the Caitlin Clark story, and she's got a new book out on Caitlin Clark as well. And I have to admit that we haven't, we talk a lot about other sports besides, you know, hockey and the Canucks.

We haven't done that much on the WNBA and we should have, but it seems to me like it's a lot of it, not all of it, a lot of it is a uniquely American story where it is sports and there is a great athlete involved and it's Caitlin Clark, but a lot of it seems to be like an extension of the culture wars down in the United States and there is elements of race And there is elements of race in this story and elements of, you know, gender relations, you know, lots of accusations of misogyny and, and also, you know, and I think that the trans issue probably comes in at some point.

And, you know, to me, it's, it's, it's a fascinating story. And I just felt like I wasn't following it closely enough to really speak in an educated manner on it, which is why we wanna have Christine Brennan on the show. And we're gonna talk to her next because she's kind of been at the center of all this. And her role in this has also exposed the WNBA

as kind of ill-prepared for all the attention that it's receiving because it is receiving a ton of attention and I think that it's for more reasons than just simply basketball. So Christine Brennan, who, by the way, first female sports reporter for the Miami Herald, first woman at the Washington Post to be a beat reporter for the Washington Redskins at the time, author of seven different books, New York Times bestseller, a trailblazer, a pioneer in journalism. bestseller, a trailblazer, a pioneer in journalism. She is also embroiled smack in the middle of this story because of her coverage of the league and how her

questions towards certain players came under fire and scrutiny and controversy. So she's written the book in a literal sense about Caitlin Clark and the WNBA, but she's also in a very unique way part of the book and part of the story because of the way that she's covered the league. So I couldn't think of a better person to speak to about this because it's not someone that's just covering the story. It's someone that has become part of the story throughout her coverage of the WNBA. So Christine Brennan is going to join us on the other side of the break. It should be a very interesting conversation, very excited to talk to her. Before we do that though, I do need to tell you about the BC Lions.

It's the biggest rivalry party of the year. Lions, Rough Riders, Saturday July 19th at 4pm with the Watermelon Smash on Terry Fox Plaza. Get your tickets now at BCLions.com. You're listening to the Halford and Breff show on Sportsnet 650. Halperd and Brough for the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com.

We are in hour two of the program, with the midway point of the program. Christine Brennan is going to join us in just a moment here to talk about Caitlin Clark and her book about Caitlin Clark and the phenomenon that is Caitlin Clark. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominock at jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at Jason.mortgage. As mentioned, our next guest is a columnist with USA Today.

She is the author of the new book, On Her Game, Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports. Christine Brennan joins us now on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Christine, how are you? Well, hello, great to be with you guys. Thanks so much for having me. And yeah, always fun to talk to one of my favorite people in one of my favorite and one of the most beautiful cities. I'll just say on earth, forget North America. So thanks so much for having me.

Well, thanks for coming on. We appreciate you taking the time to do this. And, you know, this is a nice intro because you can introduce Vancouver and maybe some of our listeners that aren't entirely familiar with the Caitlin Clark phenomenon, not just changing the WNBA, but changing the face of women's sports forever. Can you explain to our listenership exactly what the Caitlin Clark phenomenon is, both from a sporting and cultural perspective. Well, absolutely, guys. And you know, I mean, you certainly

have perfected women's sports hockey. Ice hockey comes to mind, and I'll be at the Olympics in Italy in, what is it, seven months. And we know we will have a US-Canada women's hockey final that will be an instant classic. But I mentioned that because among other many other sports rowing and obviously your basketball team's quite

women's basketball you know there's women's sports in Canada is very very important obviously it's important in the United States truly a hallmark of both countries is making sure our girls as well as our boys play sports right that's been something that's happened over these years and And we have Title Nine down here in the your small little neighborhood at the South and you know, 53 years old now. And the what it did was give the

other half of our population the chance to learn about winning and losing at a young age teamwork sportsmanship gave us all kinds of things. I'm sure there are some people who remember the 1999 Women's World Cup Soccer. Of course, Canada's team, the great Christine Sinclair, she wasn't on that team yet, but women's soccer was building. That was Brandy Chastain and the Rose Bowl filled the capacity for a women's sport. And that was 99, July of 99, US wins.

Two and a half years later, a little girl is born in Des Moines, Iowa, and she turns out to be Caitlin Clark. Why do I mention this? Because the climate in the country was all about, we want our daughters to play just like our sons, forget all the naysayers, forget all the stuff that women shouldn't play sports. We're all in. And that climate for young women born in the early part of this century really, really not only allowed girls, Caitlin

Clark's family, she's an older brother, younger sister, younger brother as well, and parents who were grew up in sports. So she was always going to play sports on the driveway and, you know, ride her bike faster than her brother did and all that. But the difference was that the nation was also ready for it and wanted to see more and more. We'd fallen in love with what we created. Caitlin obviously rises through the for it and wanted to see more and more. We'd fallen in love with what we created. Caitlin obviously rises through the ranks. Everyone starts to see her in college at Iowa. Why what's going on with this particular athlete, as opposed to all the other

female athletes that haven't quite, you know, haven't crossed over into our culture where grandmothers and grandfathers are talking about her in the produce section at the grocery store, which they are with Caitlin Clark. It's the logo threes, you know, she's chucking it from the parking lot and it's going in and you watch it and you kind of what did I see and you want to watch the replay and then you want to go on social media and make sure you see it again and again in her celebration. It's the passes, beautiful passes. The other day she had it connected over the fingertips of the opponents to Sophie Cunningham. It was about three quarter lane pass, just exquisite.

And the announcer goes, touchdown Indiana Fever. Perfect, perfect call of that remarkable basketball play and, and just the high wire act. And when you've got that, when you've got an entertainer like Tiger Woods was in golf, here come the eyeballs, here comes the interest. The difference here guys, people lined up in January for hours to go into arenas to watch her play. The difference, we're talking about a woman who's playing basketball and that's the first certainly in this country. So explain how much did you do the current kind of culture wars in the United States as we, as I understand them as a Canadian and they are confusing sometimes, but how does that play into this story? Because it seems like there's a lot of hot button issues all in play at the same

time. Yeah, there sure are. And, um, yes, there is, there are some political things going on in our country. Whew. Um, and, um, you know, can I just say we love Canada? Can we just say that? We appreciate that. Thank you.

I love Canada. I grew up in Toledo. We listened to CKLW in Windsor. Um, we went to the thick vacations in Toronto, our family, we looked North Michigan and Canada all the time. My brother did hockey camp in Halberton. I would have played hockey if girls could play hockey back then. I played, you know, six other sports, but you know what I mean? Oh no, no,

we love Canada and you know how much I love Vancouver. One of the best Olympics ever 2010. I've covered so many over the years. So, yeah, so for sure. You know, when you've got an election, a polarized election, a polarized society, racially polarized, and now Caitlin Clark, a white woman from Iowa, comes into a 74% black league. I deal with all this in the book. By the way, the book on her game is Caitlin Carton Magic. I mean, you know, it's just the logo threes are jumping up the page. She's

quoted extensively. It's a book for adults, but 12 year old girls and boys can read it. Absolutely. The most minimal of any words that I know the kids know, but I don't necessarily want to write them. But yeah, really, really tame that way for the kids, but also adults, but also real and true. If someone's swearing a blue streak, I just say some choice language. And then there's a couple S words that Cheryl Reeve, the Olympic coach, uttered about Caitlin Clark, which is another ridiculous moment for USA basketball and for the treatment of the greatest thing that's ever happened in women's basketball and women's team sports, which is Caitlin Clark. Just stunning. But yeah, parents,

grandparents, kids, you know, this book is if you've got a girl athlete in your life or a girl dad in your life, you know, I wrote this quickly over about a four or five month period, but it is a story of America. It's a story of our culture. It's a story of North America, because again, your girls are doing the same things, different sports, maybe than our girls are, you know, we're one in the same in that way. And so you've got a 74% black league. And here comes a white woman and she's the one that gets all the attention. I will never be no, or be able to spend a second as a black person. So I know what I know. I know what I don't know.

And so I have incredible voices. I'm so honored that people talk to me at length to go into everything from just to how great Caitlin Clark is or teammate and best friend, Kate Martin, spend a half hour with her. I was following the fever around in Indianapolis, wherever they played. So I got to be immersed in the team and the, uh, and the opponents as well. But I also interview a man named Dr. Harry Edwards, who is a civil rights advocate, a black man actually fighting

cancer now in the Bay area and California. He's the man behind the black power salute at the 1968 Mexico city Olympics. The people might remember if you're of a certain age. He loves Caitlin Clark. How about that? He loves her, thinks she's great and says in the book, the WNBA failed the players. What he is suggesting is when you've got something this extraordinary happening, that you have to see it anticipated.

And if leadership in the WNBA did that, you have seminars, you have Zooms, you let Harry Edwards talk to players, you know, someone who might be a little missed, right? Why didn't this happen earlier? Hey, I'm missed as a journalist who's covered women's sports for so long as well as men's, of course. I wish this happened 20 years ago for the WNBA, right? I wish that they were household names back then, but they weren't. It didn't happen. I tried, covered them for the Washington Post, Lifetime TV, CNN, when I got a chance to talk about the NBA, I would talk about the WNBA. It didn't stick. Here it is now. So we can understand how there might be hurt feelings,

issues, you know, the new person saunters into the workplace and you're like, who's that? Right. We've all felt have a sense of that. Anyway, that's what the WNBA did not do. Did not help the players, not because they're damsels in distress. No, it's just, this is such an unusual moment of a person lifting up a league like no league has ever been lifted up before because it had so far to go, right? Because no one cared really in the mainstream sports media and in our culture the way that they should have cared and we would have hoped they would have cared. Anyway, WMA didn't do that. You've got a hip check, the cheap shot of Kennedy

Carter. There's a whole chapter on that and the ramifications of that. And on and on it goes, I really try to look into it, but jealousy is mentioned. Certainly racial issues are mentioned. And it's a shame because that spotlight shining on Caitlin Clark shines on all those players who deserve detention, but never got it. Most of them black players and now they're getting it. And it seems to me the rising tide lifts all boats. You should look at that and say, this is a great thing. We're making more money because of Caitlin Clark, which is the truth Unfortunately, there seem to be other things at play as well We're speaking to Christine Brennan here on the Haliford and Bruff show on sportsnet 650

She's the author of the new book on her game Caitlin Clark and the revolution in women's sports a two-parter here for you, Christine I think you answered part of it already But was the WNBA prepared for the Caitlin Clark phenomenon? And the follow-up question would be, can you actually really truly prepare for a phenomenon? Well, they definitely were not prepared. You're right. Sorry for the filibuster answer before, but there's a lot that goes into this. You know what I mean? And people, you start to think about it like, oh, OK, I get it.

You know, I'm seeing the issues here. At least I had the benefit of reporting on all of this. And so I lived this for a year, basically, right after the Paris Olympics. I came Paris to Indianapolis. Everyone does that, right? But I love India, and it's a great town. Direct flights all day.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're exactly the same. But actually, but I love Indian. It's a great, perfect direct flights all day. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're exactly the same, but actually I do love Indianapolis. It is a great city. Perfect for sports and prefer for Caitlin Clark, cause they love basketball. Totally ready for her. So to answer your second part of your question, uh, Indianapolis is ready. Absolutely.

Because it's the Pacers and the fever. So you get the benefit of this NBA franchise. So you've got, you know got like two dozen social media people pump and step out, which really, I mean, you look at the numbers on the Caitlin Clark, when they put pictures of Caitlin Clark or videos of Clark or even her teammates, they're all getting, now again,

that spotlight that is shining on Caitlin is shining on them and they're becoming, they're also getting the grocery store openings and the gas station openings that Caitlin can't do All these other players these fever players they get it they're getting in and you get a fee for that you get an honorarium I have no idea what it is I mean Who's not jumping in to the Indiana fever?

To take the ones that Caitlin can't do right and make money off of that and become a superstar and have all these eyeballs on you. So the fever players get it for sure. And there are a lot of people who want to play for Indiana because you're going to be able to get the deals. Sophie Cunningham with that hard hit, now she's got endorsements, you know, like for protecting the house because she protected the house.

I mean, she's got a big, I think she's got the ring, ring camera thing. I mean, you know, that's significant. And that's like major league men's sports stuff, right? So the Indiana fever anticipated it, they knew. I don't know how as a league, you do not look at the lines in January, February in the US, and both in 2023, but really 2024, her senior year. And my nieces were in that line for all of us at the University both in 2023 but really 2024, her senior year.

And my nieces were in that line for all of us at the University of Maryland. When Iowa would come to a city, Columbus, Ohio, Evanston, Illinois, my alma mater, Northwestern, University of Maryland, and people in the cold, in line for hours to get in, it looked like a Springsteen concert or a Taylor Swift concert. Right, right, right.

And it's for a woman's basketball player. How on earth, if you're the WNBA, you're not looking at, hey, this is coming in like a month, two months, whatever the date would have been. You know, obviously it was early April, she's drafted. Are we ready? And where was the NBA too? Because the NBA is the big brother. They own 60% or so of the WNBA, either individual owners owning or the league. And they were caught flat-footed. In fact, beyond flat-footed, I'm just completely unprepared. So it's, it's, and this is the moment, you know, apparently she's injured. I mean, I was doing a book event and then Iowa, perfect.

Duane, Iowa right now talking to you guys. And I missed the game, but I'm certainly seeing all the aftermath. Looks like she's injured again. Last time early in the year when she was injured, missed five games. When Caitlin Clark disappears over half the TV audience disappears. I mean, we've, that's not tiger. That's not, that's not even Gretzky, right? Half a more than half of an audience, never have we

seen an athlete have that much, be so important to an entity or a league as Caitlin Clark is to the WNBA. So Christine, I have to ask, I know every good journalist will say, I don't want to be part of the story and the bad journalist will say, I really want to be part of the story. And I know you're a good journalist and you don't want to be part of the story. And the bad journalists will say, I really want to be part of the story. And I know you're a good journalist

and you don't want to be part of the story, but you became part of the story at one point. Can you explain what happened there? Sure, absolutely. I write about in the book, the chapter titled controversy, really innovative. We went to the guy, let's just call it controversy. But I wanted, I have to say it because otherwise I think people would be angry if I get mad at me for

ducking it or something, right? So the real strategy, the quickest of situation, explain it. Desheneh Carrington is an opponent of Caitlin Clark plays for the Connecticut Sun. Connecticut was playing Indiana in the playoffs, two games. Connecticut won both the playoffs were over. Caitlin's season was done in game one. Right at the beginning, Dijonet Carrington kind of swats at Caitlin as she's passing, not shooting. And her fingers end up going into Caitlin Clark's eye. There's 10 million replays, end up going into Caitlin Clark's eye. There's 10 million replays, millions of tweets and posts and conversation over the next day or two about this, many of them accusatory, saying that

Dijonette Carrington tried to injure Caitlin Clark. Clark stayed in the game. She ended up with a bit of a black eye. Her shooting was off. She said, typical Caitlin, always taking the high road. I mean, what a role model she is for every kid on earth. Just spectacular how she handled this herself. Wasn't because of that, even if it was, we'll never know, but she just said, and that was it, I just was a little off, but you couldn't help but think it was because

she just got hit in the eye. But okay, so that happens, huge issue. Now 48 hours later, so that happens huge issue. Now 48 hours later, we have a media availability. DG&A Carrington's there in front of like 20 30 of us on the court after practice. And the questions are coming and no one seems to be asking about this. This is journalism 101 you must ask. Every athlete knows it's coming and most athletes understand, hey, I get asked, I

can then clear the air, right? I can hit it out every athlete knows it's coming and most athletes understand, Hey, I get asked, I can then clear the air, right? I can hit it out of the park. But if a league hasn't helped the players or the agent hasn't helped the players understand that a journalist isn't necessarily the enemy, the journalists can facilitate your answer, even though that's not my role, I ask it, but you can take that and hit it out of the park, run with it any which way you want. Anyway. So I say to Dijon at Carrington, when that happened, kind of swatted at Caitlin Clark,

did you intend to hit her in the eye? Did you intend to or not? Either way, could you describe what happened? I have to ask specifically, because that then takes it right to the point that she can then go with her answer. Great answer. No, she did not do it on purpose. Went on for 10, 15 seconds. Great answer. I then followed up. There was something else going all over the internet showing Marina Mabry, her teammate at the time, and Dijonet Carrington doing something with three fingers into the eye, kind of into their head. Right. Now that's called Three to the Dome. That's what Carmelo Anthony's gesture was in the NBA. But who knows?

Because people are wondering, are they laughing at the eye poke? So I asked about that. Were you laughing about it? And then Dejanae Carrington, I couldn't laugh because I didn't mean to do it. Fine. And then I put it on, I put the video on line.

I think there's 5 million, six million views now. Of course I did because it's a new story and I'm covering the story. Easy thing to do. And anyway, Vigenet Carrington got mad. There's a lot of people mad at me. That's nothing new as a journalist. It happened all the time in the NFL,

the Olympic world for sure. It happens. And then the Players Association wanted to ban me. That was a shocker a few days later for asking a question in America in 2024. And they failed miserably. They totally embarrassed themselves. And yeah, I'm probably the longest covering person that long still standing person who's covered the WNBA and they wanted to ban the person who's still around who's covered the WNBA the longest all the way back to the 90s.

Again USA Today of course you know obviously put out a strong statement defending me. Jake Tapper on CNN defended me, wonderful other friends and people, Boston Globe columnist Tara Sullivan and again they failed miserably. I had credentials. I'll be credentialed for the All-Star Game in a few days. But that shows, I mean, to me, it just shows their utter lack of understanding of what national scrutiny is. I was embarrassed for them and obviously it impacted me. Not at all. But that's the story. And again, I think another example of the WNBA, sadly,

guys, this gives me no joy to talk about this, right? I want the coverage of women's sports to be robust, and I hope that these women get their due. They haven't for decades. And instead, we're seeing this. So anyway, there's the story. Well, I wanna follow up on this, because for those that are unfamiliar

with your career prior to doing the WNBA stuff extensively, like you worked for the Washington Post and you covered the Redskins, and you mentioned you've done a bunch of, a different Olympic games. So you've got a breadth of coverage and knowledge and experience covering different sports, but covering them, as you said, in a robust way.

So you apply that same standard to your coverage of the WNBA. Was the pushback that this is a different league, so it needs to be treated differently than all those other leagues and entities that you've covered There certainly it seemed to be that was the numbers my point, you know Like how dare you do this Megan Rapinoe of the women's soccer player who I've known what we've even done an event together where I Moderated and we're friendly said on her podcast that my questions felt racist. Oh my god, really?

Well, you know like people yeah on her podcast that my questions felt racist. Oh my God, really? Wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah, people, yeah. But did that ask me if that bothered me? I mean, I couldn't, I didn't even take it seriously because, I mean, what on earth? Megan has been asked tough questions and answered them. So is she?

And I like Megan. And she can call me anytime or text me anytime and talk about it. You know, it's fine. It's her opinion. She has every right to say that the question felt racist. I mean, you know, go ahead. But the and obviously, you know, clearly it wasn't.

Let's make that crystal clear. Are they saying that you ask different questions of black women than white women? Are they saying that I should ask different questions? The questions I've asked much tougher questions of male athletes, right? Much tougher. And other female athletes too. Is the point of the Players Association that you've got to ask softer questions of women? Is that where they really, that women can't handle the same questions as men in 2024,

which this was September of 2024. Was that their message? Is that a message you wanna send to girls in the United States and around the world? It's funny, Christine, because you bring up Megan Rapinoe and as a women's Canada fan, I could not stand the American team I thought they were cocky and arrogant I didn't think they were good sports they were good and I

always said at the time I was like that's good for the sport that we can go beyond like good for them the girls are playing too right like it and and you know people I remember saying, I don't like Megan Rupino, like, she's got a huge ego. And it was just me, first of all, I kind of think she does. But second of all, like, I'm a Canada fan, and I want Canada to win. I don't want the Americans to win. And I think when you get to that point, it's good for the sport. Yeah. But you know, I remember hearing from people that are like, well, you wouldn't say that about a male athlete. I'm like, I would.

And I do every day. Like we talk about these issues. We talk about players that we don't like and players that we do like, and why don't we like this player? And a lot of the times it comes down for me it's like ego or something like that. Heroes and villains. Yeah, yeah and it's part of the narrative and I think to your point it's good for women's sports when we get to that because we can't just be like good for them they're playing too. Yeah, oh you'd never want that and you know the rivalries are

great oh absolutely I mean the old Soviet Union US rivalry in the Olympics. I'm glad the Soviet Union is gone. But you know, that was that was huge. Red Sox Yankees, US Canada and women's hockey, as I said, well, you know, whatever the data is of that game in February, we'll all be watching. Presumably, they could obviously both get there, which they should. Yeah, I mean, it's it's on and on. I mean, how about the Canadians and the Soviets and hockey, you know, back in the seventies, those incredible games that we all in the U S Well, how about Canada, U S right now in hockey?

That, that one too. That is, it's incredible. Even Vancouver, I was in my room, uh, gearing up for the closing ceremony at the Olympics in 2010. And all I had to do was open my window and listen, you know, if there was, I had it on in my TV too, but like, you know, oh, there's cheering in the streets of Vancouver. I think the Canadians just scored, you know, and that's, that's how cool. I mean, I wanted, I would have liked to see the U.S. win, but I didn't really care that much. I'm a journalist and I had, you know, bigger

fish to fry and it was great for the Olympics that it was Canada winning that gold in men's hockey in Vancouver. But how fun is that? What a memory that is 15 years later that I could hear the cheering in the streets. I love that. Yeah. So that's all fine. All of this is fine. I mean, they looked ridiculous with trying to ban a journalist but there but yes the hatred of an athlete or you pick one and you don't like the other one we want women's sports I mean we don't want hatred and we certainly don't want threats and you know on X so many of these women especially the black women just get pummeled on social media that's terrible that's awful we do not want that for

anyone but it is a reality of the cesspool that is X, you know, Twitter. So anyway, there we are. But sure. Oh, you, you, you love Caitlin Clark. You love Angel Reese. Caitlin obviously is so much more popular than Angel Reese. Angel cannot sell out her arena in Chicago unless Caitlin Clark or a couple other players

come in and sell it out. You know, so, you know, but Angel is a force and people have opinions. That's great. That's great. I'm all for opinions and I've given mine as you guys know for years. So that's not the issue. The issue is trying to ban a journalist and as I said, it totally failed miserably. It was a disaster for them and unfortunately they should have hopefully thought it through, but they didn't. And I did deal with it and probably so. But these women are tough, strong women. They can handle questions.

And I'm not sure why the Players Association wants to coddle them other than the fact that they don't really know what national scrutiny is. I'm not saying I'm Edward R. Murrow here, guys, but I am saying that a lot of the writers, and I go into this, when you cover a beat, if you're a young writer, young media person, some of them I mentored and helped over the years, they may be a little more protective of the beat than someone who's been covering sports for all these years. And the NFL writers on all the, you know, all the newspapers that have WNBA teams, the editors did not put their NFL writers on the beat, right? They did not, they often put interns on the beat.

And I loved interns. I was an intern four times during my days at Northwestern. But an intern is probably not going to be the next Bob Woodward right then the way that you would have your baseball or football writer or your Olympic writer who would ask tough questions right then. Sure. So the WNBA never under probably never got a good good blast or dose of what real national journalism really you know significant journalism was not hateful journalism, just asking questions that needed to be asked. So then I come in and ask them and they want to ban me. So that's another growing pace. The WNBA

has to meet the moment, you've got the person, and don't blow it. Don't let this pass and we'll see how it plays out over the next few years. Christine, this was fantastic. Thank you very much for taking the time to join us today. We really appreciate it. A reminder for all our listeners, the book is on her game, Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports. Christine, thanks again. This was fantastic.

Oh, Mike Jason, thanks so much for having me. Take care. You too, thanks. That's Christine Brennan, columnist from USA Today, bestselling author here on the Halford and Breff show on Sportsnet 650, way up against it for time. We gotta go to break. Thomas Drance is on the other side.

You're listening to the Halford and Breff show