Halford & Brough in the Morning - Can Buck Pierce Take The BC Lions To The Next Level?

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

In hour two, guest hosts Jamie Dodd & Israel Fehr rank the 4 Nations Face-Off rosters with NHL.com senior writer Dan Rosen (1:09), plus the boys chat with 3 Down Nation's Jon Abbott (26:25) about Buck Pierce, and if the new BC Lions bench boss can take the team to the Grey Cup. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Welcome back to Halford and Brough here on Sportsnet 650. It's Jamie Dodd and Israel Fair filling in for Halford & Brough for the next couple of days. We are live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Store feet, what are you waiting for? Halford & Brough is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers.

Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. Halford & Brough, this hour of the show brought to you by Jason.Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit Jason.Mortgage. Now joining us here to chat more about the reveal of the official rosters for the Four Nations Face-Off coming up in february as

well as some other stuff some other stuff happening around the nhl uh he is senior writer for nhl.com dan rosen dan thanks very much for doing this today how are you i'm good guys how are you we're doing very well so you know i think we had a pretty good idea of who was going to be on these teams for the most part before yesterday but now it's official it's been revealed we know exactly who's going to go and represent these four countries i mean just big picture what kind of stood out to you about the reveal the process the selections all of it from yesterday the intelligence of it uh to be honest with you the intelligence of building a roster uh for a team that you, is going to be playing NHL hockey. I mean, it's international hockey and it's international teams,

but it's on NHL ice. These guys are coming off of their NHL teams. It's an NHL, NHLPA tournament, so you have to play that style of game. You can't have all-star teams, although all of these teams are all-star teams. You can't just have guys, like, you know, who are first line centers playing fourth line center and expect them to be like oh yeah no it's going to be just fine um you know that's why you know you look at the additions of guys like vinton trochek and barack nelson

on team usa you know bubble guys who you didn't know if they were going to make it or not uh trochek not off to the best season, but, you know, right-handed guy, wins a ton of face-offs, strong in the defensive zone, kills penalties, can play in your power play, will generate offense. Brock Nelson, left-handed guy, does all those same things, jack-of-all-trades type player. You know, Chris Kreider, I thought he should be on Team USA. I know he's not off to the best start either, but guy scores goals, right?

Dangerous on a power play, dangerous on a penalty kill. Specialist in that way. Brandon Hagel for Team USA, similar. Lots of different elements to his game. Sorelli, you need a fourth-line center to win you a faceoff deep in the defensive zone. Minute to go in the game. Who's John Cooper putting out on the ice? He's putting Anthony Cirelli out on the ice.

He knows him. He trusts him. So I thought the intelligence of it was key, building those types of rosters, not just all-star teams, even though all of these guys could easily be an all-star on all four nations. When a Team Canada roster gets announced, it gets poured over and analyzed up here, probably more than our federal elections. So there's been a lot of that,

a lot of talk about the Canadian roster. However, I think one of the prevailing thoughts for Canadian hockey fans is looking over that U.S. team and going, ooh, that is a really good group. Is this the most talented U.S. team that they've been able to put together at this kind of tournament? Well, I mean, you go back to the 96 team, you had a lot of Hall of Famers

on that team, right? I mean, a lot of guys who were, you know, from Leach and Hull and, you know, I mean, we go on down the list of the Hall of Famers, that were on that team. That was a really talented team. And that team was built off of the 1980 team, right?

I mean, those were guys who were kids, you know, watching the 1980 team, right, which wasn't the most talented. You know, it just had the best story, you know, and had the best chemistry and camaraderie, obviously. This USA roster, based on the skill we've seen grow in the National Hockey League and the way the league is played, has got to be the most skilled roster, the most talented roster that the U.S. has ever put together. There's nobody on this team that you look at and say,

hmm, I'm not so sure he should be there. Or, hmm, that's where their weakness is. Tell me, like, where's the weakness? There's no – Canada's the same, but we expect that from Canada at every international tournament, right? The U.S. has – we've grown to expect that now from the U.S. There's no weakness on a team. Their defense, I think, is the from from the u.s there's no weakness on their defense i think is the best

in the tournament i mean think about the pairs that you can have there with with uh with quinn hughes and probably mcavoy and and adam fox and slavin and worensky and faber and had a fin in their mix too look at the goaltending they got the best goalie in the league right now probably in connor hellebuck one of the best in jake the league right now, probably in Connor Hellebuck. One of the best in Jake Ottinger and a guy in Jeremy Swayman who knows how to play in big games. And up front, I mean, they're loaded.

They're big, physical, talented. I can't, I don't know. I think they have, I mean, that's me. I think they have the best roster of the four. Well, that was going to be my follow-up question. I mean, we were kind of debating it earlier. And, yeah, I think I agree with you.

I think they are better on paper than Canada. And I don't know that we've been able to really say that before going into a tournament like this. I mean, how close is it for you? We're saying they're better. I don't think it's a huge gap. But, I mean, how close is that between Team Canada and the Team USA rosters in your eyes? It's very close. And I say that because if you look at the Team Canada roster, right? You just go on down the list of the Team Canada roster. How many Stanley Cup champions do you have?

You got a lot, right? I mean, Crosby, Marchand, Bennett, Torelli, Reinhardt, Stone, McKinnon, Point, McCarr, Tabes, Pareko, Petranzolo, Theodore. I may be missing, you know, somebody here. You know, like there's Binnington, Hill, right? I mean, you're loaded with winners on the Canadian roster. And I think that's one of the great equalizers in this whole thing is we look at the U.S. goaltending and you look at Sweden's goaltending

and you can even touch on Finland's goaltending and say all three are better than the Canadian goaltender, right? But the Canadian goaltenders have a Stanley Cup champion in Jordan Binnington, and they have a Stanley Cup champion in Aiden Hill. And that matters. That matters a lot. These guys know how to play in these big games. They've been there before,

and they know how to dial it up quickly, right? Because they've had to do it. So I think it's very, very close. The talent on the Canadian roster is great. I think The talent on the Canadian roster is great. I think the Swedes, the depth on the Swedish roster is excellent. Their defense, I mean, Hedman, Forsling, if you have Hedman and Forsling headlining your defense,

that's really, really good. And then you drop from there to Ekholm, who's just been terrific for the Edmonton Oilers. Eric Carlson, we know what he's capable of doing. Darlene, Brodine, and Anderson, I mean, that's a very good defense. I think it's right up there with the U.S. defense and the Canada defense. The Finns probably are fourth in that nature, if you look at it based on their defense and their

and their scoring depth i would say but again i think finland makes up five percent of the national hockey league rosters and like swedes are higher than that i think it's around 13 i think the u.s is around 28 and canada is around 40 so you would expect that from finland i guess when you look at the rosters through that team-building perspective that you talked about, that it's not an all-star team, it's not just let's get the biggest names on this roster, it's maybe understandable

that Conor Bedard doesn't end up on Team Canada, but what do you think this means for a guy that last year was getting tons and tons of attention, he has produced in the NHl at a very high level at a very young age but clearly on this team the role for him uh and he's had some ups and downs so far this season uh wasn't going to be there for him on this on this team canada well and i think

i think it comes down to having thought of it so my first my, you know, was how is Bedard not on this team? Right? And my thought was get him around Crosby and McDavid and Martian and McKinnon and Stone. Get him around these guys. Let him for a week and a half, for a week or so, learn and just embrace what it is to be around these guys because Conor Bedard is going to be a big part of the canadian national team going forward right so that's why i thought like he should take up a roster spot and i still kind of think that uh based for that reason alone but then you look at the team building aspect of it and you say well he's not going to play top six

minutes on this team right he's not going to play over m over McDavid. He's not going to play over Crosby or McKinnon or Marchand or Marner or Point. So he's not playing top six minutes. Reinhardt. And then he's not a bottom six guy, right? So he's not in that nature of Sorelli and Hagel and Jarvis and Konechny, you even throw Marner in there because Marner's such a good two-way player and Bennett, right? So where does he fit then? And then you look at it and say, well, he doesn't, right? Not yet. He's not quite there yet. I think it's an honest assessment of where Conor Bedard

is as a 19-year-old in the National Hockey League in his career. He's not quite there yet. And that's okay. You know, that's fine. I did think he'd be on the team just simply to get him around these guys, but I understand the team-building aspect of it doesn't quite put a spot on the team for him. And then if you have an injury,

you've got to put him in an uncomfortable spot probably, and you don't want to do that either. Well, and Danny, you referenced the intelligence that all these countries showed in putting together their rosters, and I also think this speaks to a level of seriousness, right? Because if they were just viewing this as kind of a glorified exhibition, then yeah, it makes a lot

of sense to bring Conor Bedard as your 13th forward, right? And hey, we're really looking ahead to the 2026 Olympics, so we want to get him experience, but I think his absence in some ways tell us that that's not what this is about, right? They're really seriously trying to win, and you've got to even get the most value you can out of your

13th forward spot in those conditions. 100%. This is a best-on-best tournament with four competing nations. Everybody wants to win, and this has been taken very seriously around the National Hockey League. This isn't just some random in-season tournament that they're trying to generate interest in international.

No, no, no. These guys, the players, more than anybody, wanted best-on-best international hockey. They have been craving it, right? So you had the World Cup eight years ago, almost nine years ago, right? But you had Team Europe and you had team north america which was fun yeah but it didn't create the best on best you could argue that you could argue that

that wasn't best on best so it's been 10 years more than 10 years since the socia olympics that we've had this we didn't go in 2018 to the olympics we didn't go to beijing in 2022, the players, these guys, I mean, the majority, you know, 95% of these players have never played best on best. They have been wanting it. There is a level of seriousness. You talk to anybody in this tournament, there is a level of seriousness of like, no, I don't know, I'm going to pull on the sweater of my country. I'm going to win.

And that's how the management teams and the coaching staff approach this because the players demand it. We've heard that a lot. We've heard that from, you know, Connor McDavid is not someone who is giving spicy quotes out on a consistent basis, but this is one that he's been very consistent with, the idea of playing best on best,

the idea of playing for Canada, and the rest of the stars have fallen in line. What do you think it is about the experience that gets the players so jacked up for the opportunity to play for their country and to go up against the best players in the world? Well, all of these players grew up watching it, right? I mean, so they grew up watching it. I mean, from 1998 through 2014, the NHL went to the Olympics, 98-02, 06, 2010, and 2014. And those Vancouver Olympics in 2010, I mean, that's on home soil.

You know, like in North America, it was in the right time zones and all that stuff. But these guys, really, I mean, they were kids at the time, and they took it in. A lot of these guys were kids at the time. You know, whether they were 10, 12, 14, whatever it was, they took that in. And they watched Sidney Crosby. They watched Zach Parisi.

They watched Roberto Bawango and Ryan Miller and what that meant and the celebrations across Canada and the disappointment, yet growth across the United States. So they were kids for that. Just like the 96 USA team was kids for 1980, right? So they've grown up on it. So that's what they've known. And they haven't had the opportunity for it.

So when you grow up on it, it's what you want. I mean, they dream, all these guys, ask any of them. They grow up wanting to play in the National League, wanting to win the Stanley Cup, and wanting to win an Olympic gold medal for their home country. Those are the three goals. One, two, three, probably, right? In that order.

And this is a prelude to the Olympics, but they haven't had a best-on-best. So I think it's really meaningful to them because this is what they grew up knowing. Yeah, and it really can be for the greatest players of all time or the guys in that mix or who want to be a part of that conversation. It can be a big part of your legacy. Obviously, Sidney Crosby has won three Stanley Cups, but that golden goal in Vancouver,

that's going to be one of the first things we think of for a long time. I look at Joe Sackick's performance for Canada at the Salt Lake Olympics, and that's, again, a Stanley Cup champion, an incredibly talented player. But that just elevates his legacy even more. Right. And, you know, I think for guys like that, that kind of next class of, you know, future Hall of Fame players. Right. Connor McDavid, Austin Matthews, Jack Eichel, Nathan McKinnon. A couple of those guys have won cups. They've won heart trophies. They've done all of that, but they haven't had a chance to add this item to their resume just yet you mentioned that hall of fame right so it's not

the nhl hall of fame right it's not the hall of fame and what do we do when we talk about guys going into the hockey hall of fame we talk about when the players we talk about their nhl accomplishments and we talk about their international accomplishments. And you want to have both, right? I mean, that's what makes you a well-rounded Hall of Famer. And there's a lot of Hall of Famers that are going to be in this tournament, right? And they want to have that well-rounded resume for the Hall of Fame, and it's not just the National Hockey League. And some of them won't win the Stanley Cup, right?

Some of them won't win the Stanley Cup, right? Some of them won't win an NHL award, an individual NHL award, but they could still be Hall of Famers if they add international success to their resume along with the individual success that they had in the league and if they played on teams that were successful but just didn't win. You know what I mean? Like, that's key.

Henrik Lundqvist. Henrik Lundqvist never won the Stanley Cup. He won an Olympic gold. It wasn't what clinched him as a Hall of Famer. He probably already was without that, but that certainly pushed him over the top, didn't it? Yeah. I look at, you know,

the Sedin twins here, same thing, right? On that team in 06, never won the Stanley Cup, but again, no doubt Hall of Famers, and probably without that anyways, but you're right. It just gives that extra little boost uh in your candidacy when the time comes uh just pivoting back to the nhl you know proper uh here dan for a little bit uh light night light night of games on the slate last night but uh nashville loses again this time to toronto and i mean man their season has just been such a nightmare there. And, you know, we've heard Barry Trotz. He's already made a couple of moves.

He said he's not afraid to make more. Is it panic time in Nashville? Could we be seeing maybe a fire sale coming up here from Barry Trotz and the Predators? I don't know about a fire sale because I don't know how, you know, who they're selling. You know what I mean? Yeah.

But this is, they're playing, I believe they're playing their 27th game tonight and they have seven wins. Seven. Okay. It's bad. And you look at it, right? UC Sorrows has got a 2.64 goals against average. I'm looking at it now. He's got a 2.64 goals

against average and a 9-1-1 save percentage. The goaltending has been fine. I mean, yeah, okay, he got off to a bad start, but he's really rectified, you know, kind of corrected, self-corrected his game. They can't score. And it's, you know, if they give up

three in a game, they're done. You know, like that's the thing. It's a problem. The last handful of games, the National Predators have not scored more than two goals. How are you winning in this league? This is not a 3-2 league anymore. And even if it was a 3-2 league, you only score two, you're the losing end of it, right? This is a 4-3 league, a four to two league,

a five to two league, a five to four league, right? You've got to be able to score, and the Predators can't. I think that's one of the bigger surprises of the season is that this team can't score, especially with what they added. But it's also like an indication. We just talked about the intelligence of the team building, right, going on in the four nations. I'm not saying Barry Trotz went out and built a fantasy team,

but when you can go, because when you can go out and add a Sam Coase on a March or so, you do it. They're really, really good players. They're veterans, well-rounded players. It just hasn't worked. They haven't clicked. The chemistry's off.

Something's not right there. And they just can't seem to get out of their own way right now. Even in the games where they get into overtime, they can't find the extra goal. They can't score. If you can't score, you can't win. We're a week past the famed American Thanksgiving. Are you in the playoffs?

Are you not in the playoffs? Look, the Predators are not close to the playoffs. We saw the Oilers have this great comeback after their slow start last year, but they had to go on some pretty incredible win streaks to do that. Is there a time here where it's just too little too late for the Predators if they don't get this going pretty soon? Well, I mean, I'll ask you a question. Do you think the Anaheim Ducks can make the playoffs?

No, I don't. Okay. They have three more points and two fewer games than the National Cup. Yeah, not good. Okay. That's the point, right? We don't look at Anaheim as a team that's ready for the playoffs. We don't look at San Jose as a team that's ready for the playoffs.

They've got five more points. They've played two more games, but they're playing much better. They've won a couple of games in a row now. They've been a much better team. There's energy there. Where's the energy? There's no energy. Listen, I'm not going to tell you that the Predators did it last year, right?

Twice. They went on hot streaks. They did it around this time last year, and they did it obviously after the famed Vegas trip that got canceled, right? Yeah. And they went bonkers. So to say a veteran team with quality goaltending and what should be a strong defense

can't do it would be a mistake. It would be way too premature to say that. But, I mean, what have they shown you to suggest that they can? And it's getting late early, so I'm not going to count them out. I think they're better than Anaheim. I think they're better than Utah. I think they're better than San Jose and Seattle, these teams.

But they've got to catch those teams before they can even think about catching a playoff spot. Dan, great stuff, man. Really appreciate it. I'm fired up for this Four Nations face-off tournament. I know the players are as well. I'm glad the rosters are out there. Can't wait to watch it in February.

Thanks for taking the time to chat with us. No, it'll be fun. This was fun, guys. Appreciate it. Thanks, Dan. Yeah, that is Dan Rosen, senior writer for NHL.com, weighing in on some things happening around the NHL with the Nashville Predators continuing to spiral and also the four nations face off and just while we're still talking about that and obviously there's the

JT Miller angle here and you know we saw the commentary from Jim Rutherford yesterday on JT Miller saying hey guys just stick to making up trade rumors don't don't throw in the salacious stuff on top of it and also saying look the ball's in his court in terms of when he comes back to the team. I noticed Emily Kaplan, NHL reporter for ESPN, has a piece talking to Bill Guerin, who of course is the GM for Team USA at the Four Nations, and just going through kind of the experience with Bill Guerin of calling the players and telling them that they've been on the team.

And just a note to pass along from Bill Guerin, this is from Emily Kaplan's article at ESPN. And he says this of talking to JT Miller and telling him he's going to be on the team. Guerin says he's working on things, but for us to stick with him, I think that meant a lot. It was a great conversation.

So just a little brief insight there from Bill Guerin, but he did speak to JT Miller yesterday, obviously, or a couple of days ago, I guess, telling him that he was on the team and to hear that from outside the

Canucks, right? A hockey source saying like, hey, good conversation. And obviously, Bill Guerin, no qualms whatsoever about picking JT Miller. I wanted to pass that

along. It sounds like good news. Good to hear those reports about how JT Miller is doing and his potential status for the canucks and for team usa yeah everything we're hearing whether it's someone like bill garren who obviously has nothing to do with the vancouver canucks he wants to beat the vancouver canucks uh like they did the other night uh and and patrick alveen had some quotes uh fresh quotes

this week as well that this is just an indication that it's sooner rather than later. This isn't a multi-week, multi-month kind of absence where it's going to stretch on because, I mean, we just heard from Dan Rosen, big takeaway from that interview is how excited the top players are. Oh, yeah. And if there's anything we know about JT Miller and how competitive he is, he's going to want to be

at his absolute best for that tournament. And showing up a week before and starting to get into NHL games is not the way to do that. So you have to imagine that this is, again, sooner rather than later for a guy like JT Miller to get back to the Canucks. And if the USA hockey people feel like, hey, this is a guy that we know is going to play a big role for us, he's going to eventually be back.

And will we get answers beyond what we know? Maybe, maybe not. But at this point, that's kind of the same. I think just good news that Bill Guerin's out there on record. He likes what he's hearing, right? Good conversation, no concerns. Look, we have so little information. I know that's just like a tiny scrap to add on to it,

but you take the good signs where you can get them on this situation. We'll pivot here, take a break. We'll talk to JC Abbott about the BC Lions. They introduced Buck Pierce as their new head coach yesterday. I also want to remind you, we're giving away a pair of tickets to ACDC, the Power Up Tour 2025 with special guests, the Pretty Reckless. It's coming to BC Place on April 22nd, 2025. Tickets go on sale tomorrow, Friday, December 6th at 10 a.m. at Ticketmaster.ca. But you, yes, you can win a pair of tickets to see ACDC today on the Halford & Brough Show. All you have to do is call in.

Here's the number, 604-280-0650. Call in at 815 on the dot. Make sure the clock in your car is not fast or anything. Make sure you're working on the exact right time. 815 on the dot. You call in. Caller number 10 will win the tickets to ACDC. Again, 604-280-0650 at 8.15, and you'll win the tickets.

JC Abbott from Three Down Nation next here on Halford & Brough. Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Vic Nazar. Have your say and join me on the People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets. Weekdays 3 to 4 at Sportsnet 650. It's Jamie Dodd and Israel Fair here live from the Kintec Studios. 650-650 is the Dunbar Lumber tax line, Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rental warriors for over 50 years. Visit them on one of their free locations to serve you or online at DunbarLumber.com.

Halford & Brough brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. This hour of Halford & an abrupt brought to you by jason.mortgage if you love giving the banks more of your money then don't let jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you that's jason.mortgage all right bc lions in the news this week they officially announced and rolled out buck pierce as their new head coach he spoke to the media yesterday now joining us from Three Down Nation to talk a little bit more about that is J.C. Abbott.

J.C., thank you for doing this. How are you? Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, it's our pleasure. So just, you know, big picture, I mean, why do you think the Lions ultimately landed on Buck Pierce as their new head coach? I think there's really two reasons why Buck Pierce was the choice. The first and most important one is he's an offensive guy, and there wasn't that many offensive guys available.

They were in a situation where if they were going to go with a head coach that could really take Nathan Rourke and this offense under its wing. They had a choice between Buck Pierce and promoting Jordan Maximick from within, and ultimately they chose to go with the guy who has been the leader of an offense that has gone to five straight great cups. The other thing is all along, Ryan Rigmaiden and neil mcavoy had made clear that they wanted to have a much more mentally tough football team going forward have a coach with a little bit of grit and anyone who watched buck pierce play during his time in winnipeg or bc before that knows just how tough he was as a quarterback,

the level of grit that he brought to that position, some of the shots that he took. They're hoping that that type of personality, that type of person can rub off on their locker room. Like you just said, JC, I think most people's memories here in BC of Buck Pierce was a guy who would battle through it. He would take hits. He would play through injuries.

He's now on the sidelines and I think probably still has that mentality, has that mindset. But what is it about him as a coach? How has he established his bona fides as a coach with the work that he did in Winnipeg? Well, you just look at the results on the field. That Winnipeg offense set aside the trips to the Greycaps and just how dominant they've been. The numbers they've put up, the consistency that they've put up over the number of years, and then just look at the fact that three of the last four most outstanding players have come from Winnipeg,

have been players that Buck Pierce has coached. Two of those, of course, are Zach Kolaros, the quarterback who had a career resurgence under Pierce's tutelage. I think that's what the Lions are hoping to see from Nathan Rourke as well, who has some similar skill sets to Kolaros in the fact that they can both move around, get outside the pocket. They want to see Pierce utilize him in that way. But also he's somebody who's going to bring balance to attacks. This was a point of emphasis last year

when they signed William Stanback. They wanted to get that ground game going. It was successful to an extent, but a lot of fans and media were critical at times when they went away from that ground game and they didn't need to. That had been a trend under Jordan Maximik's tenure as offensive coordinator.

That's not going to be a trend with Buck Pierce. We know that when he finds a back, he can commit to that running game, and they'll have that more balanced attack going forward. So, as I mentioned, Buck Pierce and the GM as well, speaking to the media yesterday in Vancouver, what did you learn about Pierce's philosophy, his perspective on taking over the BC Lions as the head coach from listening to him yesterday? Well, he certainly had Mike O'Shea rub off on him a little bit. He spoke

just how impactful it's been learning from O'Shea as a coach and as a man during his tenure in Winnipeg. I asked him sort of point blank if he was going to emulate Mike O'Shea's level of opaqueness when it comes to roster moves and injury reporting and things like that. His answer to me, guys, was just, we'll see. That's it. So I think that's a pretty good indication that we're going to get a little bit more of a smokescreen at times from Buck Pierce than maybe we did from Rick Campbell.

But he's someone who values quality human beings, is a quality human being himself. You never hear anyone say a bad word about Buck Pierce's character. And he comes from a Winnipeg organization where that was paramount, where toughness was paramount, where accountability was paramount. Those are all the things that BC wants to make sure they're instilling in their locker room going forward. If the Lions are going to have success next season, a lot of that is going to come down to Nathan Rourke's play. He had some ups and downs after returning to the team last season,

but Lions fans saw a couple of years ago just how dynamic a quarterback he can be. A big part of Buck Pierce being the guy to be the coach is surely what he can get out of Nathan Rourke. What can Buck Pierce do to get the best from Nathan Rourke? I think he can do exactly what he did with Zach Galeros, which is build a balanced and explosive offense around him that maximizes Nathan Rourke's skill sets. Now, it sort of gets lost in all this because we focus on what Buck Pierce can bring,

but this is a little bit of an awkward situation if you're Nathan Roark to an extent because you struggled last season. Everyone blamed it on the fact that you had to learn five playbooks in a calendar year. Now before that calendar year is over, you're given a sixth playbook. Here, learn another one.

And also, you're losing the coach in Jordan Maximic who I think was probably the biggest factor in Nathan Rourke coming back to the BC Lions he's the guy he credited for his season in 2022 and he said it yesterday he's all on board with the Lions division he's not rocking the boat but, yeah, I would have liked another year to work with Max Simic. He likes what he's done with him in the past. So he's losing the coach he trusts most and getting another playbook added onto his plate in the hopes that they can find something new and take him to that next level. I think Rourke's going to pick up that playbook like nobody's business.

He's got a full off season to really get into it. He lives here. Pierce is moving here. They are going to be able to work together closely, and that's going to give them a huge advantage going forward. But it's going to take a little bit of time for that chemistry and that relationship to build. Yeah, and I think anytime you're talking about a football team, NFL, team nfl cfl whatever level right coach and quarterback are going to be you know number one and two on the list of things you're you're analyzing and thinking about but

beyond that i think it's fair to say that uh there's been other holes on the roster for the bc lions over the last couple of years beyond you know nathan rourke and helping him i mean where do the bc lions need to improve on the roster for pierce to be successful here going forward well i think they need to get younger in the secondary and a little bit more physical that is a key piece there and find the guys who can step up into key roles as youngsters they need to generate some pass rush, which was missing last year. Hopefully, re-signing Matthew Betts and getting a full season out of him is part of that equation. And they need to get better on the offensive line. We've been saying it year after year after year that the offensive line that the BC Lions

have trotted out just simply hasn't been good enough. I think their veteran Canadians in the interior were not the best when they acquired them, probably overpaid in some cases, and have gotten worse via the league average over the time they've had them. needs to be some upgrades there i think george una their first round pick from last season hopefully he's ready to step into another role i wouldn't be surprised if they add a couple of other young linemen this offseason there needs to be some fresh blood and some talent up front

so that the quarterback has a little bit more time and they can run the system that Buck Pierce wants to run, which has always been defined by Winnipeg having one of, if not the best, offensive lines in the CFL. Over the last few years, the Lions haven't been shy of putting pretty high expectations on themselves, wanting to get deep in the playoffs, get back to a great cup, win a great cup. Although we see that in the CFL, one thing that tends to be huge for teams is that continuity. We see longtime coaches, longtime quarterbacks, maintaining that continuity and those teams being the ones that have success.

With Buck Pierce joining this team, with some of the changes there that clearly need to happen for the Lions, like you just outlined, what are the expectations for the Lions and Buck Pierce in his first season? I think they're going to be the same expectations that were laid at Rick Campbell's feet,

which is that this is a team that should be in the West Final every year and competing to be in a great cup. Now, I expect there to be a little bit of a learning curve for Buck Pierce, but they were 9-9 last season. They have to take a step forward. I think this team should be a double-digit team, a double-digit win team, if it's managed properly, especially when you have a talent like Nathan Rourke under center,

and that will be the expectations as long as he's here and as long as he's healthy. I don't know if that's necessarily fair to place on a first-time head coach, but you don't fire a guy that is taking you to the playoffs for three straight years unless you have expectations to soar higher than that. And I think the Lions want to create a team that is winning playoff games year in and year out, hosting playoff games year in and year out, and can overtake Winnipeg in the West Division as that top team. JC, just looking at the CFL as a whole, kind of big picture, you know, we know that Commissioner

Randy Ambrose is going to be stepping down sometime in 2025. We're not sure who the replacement will be just yet, you know what will be kind of a front burner issue first priority in your view for whoever the new commissioner of the cfl ends up being well the priority for the new commissioner is going to be finding ways to generate new revenue that's ultimately why randy ambrosie is no longer going to be the commissioner of the Canadian Football League. Yes, it's been peggled out as a retirement of sorts, but ultimately he didn't have the votes with the Board of Governors to extend his contract and keep going as commissioner because he hadn't delivered the revenue growth that he promised during his tenure, whether that is in new TV rights deals

when everything expires in 2026 and trying to generate some new opportunities there, whether that's reinvigorating expansion, which has sort of died off in the last number of years after really pre-pandemic getting close there in Halifax, the CFL views getting a 10th team still as a priority. But really, no matter how you do it or how you slice it, you've got to find a way to improve the revenue growth in this league because the owners, as much as they know that it's not going to be NFL money, they do see what other pro sports leagues in North America are generating and how those

franchise values are increasing. And they want to know why everything in the CFL is flat. The league is incredibly stable right now as compared to where it's been in the past. It's not necessarily growing. And that's where the commissioner has to step in. JC, really appreciate the time and the insight into the Buck Pierce hire, especially. Thanks for taking some time to chat with us. It was my pleasure. Have a good one, guys.

That is JC Abbott from Three Down Nation. He's got a good piece up right now at Three Down Nation kind of outlining why the Lions went with Buck Pierce and what to expect from that partnership between Pierce and quarterback Nathan Rourke. All right, it's Alfred and Brough here, Sportsnet 650. Just do a little roadmap for the rest of the show here. Drancer coming up at 8.

We'll talk to him about the Canucks, what to expect from this six-game homestand coming up for coming up at 8. We'll talk to him about the Canucks, what to expect from this six game homestand coming up for the team at 8.15. As a reminder, we are giving away a pair of tickets to see ACDC on April 22nd 2025 at BC Place.

Tickets don't go on sale tomorrow, but today your chance to win a pair of tickets at 8.15. What you do if you want to win the tickets, you call 604-280-0650. That's 604-280-0650. Caller number 10 will win the tickets to see ACDC. I also want to remind everyone, of course, at 830, we'll do what we learned. So send your what we learned submissions in now.

Hashtag WWL, what you learned over the last 24 hours in sports to 650 650 the dumb bar lumber text line all right uh as i mentioned we're going to talk canucks with drancer here in just a few minutes but uh before we get to drance you know the canucks will practice today they of course had the day off after that six game road trip traveling back from minnesota yesterday back on practice here on practice ice here in Vancouver and you know there'll be a lot of questions and I don't just mean questions that Rick Talkett will field although he'll have some of those as well but just things we're hoping to learn and you know I think Jim Rutherford probably cut off a lot of the JT Miller questions that Rick

Talkett might have fielded otherwise with his commentary yesterday. Yep. So number one on the list for me now is Thatcher Demko status and that means you know what he's doing at practice. He's been a full participant, but we've also heard from Rick Dolly Wall now right? Hey, the practice time is really important as Demko still needs

to ramp up. I don't know about you, but I was looking at this game tomorrow against Columbus for a long time and thinking that's what we're going to see that your Demko for the first time reading the tea leaves a little bit. It sounds like maybe that's not going to be the case. So, you know, I'm curious to see what's that your Demko doing a practice? You know, how hard is he going? What's that ramp up process look like? And then I'm curious to hear from Rick Talkett as well. What's the plan for for thatcher demko here when should we expect to see him and when you when we do see him what's the ramp-up

process look like from there right like that's the really fascinating thing for me right game one that's great he's got to cross that barrier at some point he's got to get in he's got to you know finally do it and play that first game. But that's not the end of it. That's not the end of the discussion. That's not the end of the concern. That's not the end of the process. What does it look like from that point on? I think given how long it's taken him to get back in a game and kind of how unexpectedly long and the reports about how he really wants to manage his practice time and all of that.

I think it's fair to have questions about, well, okay, getting into one game is awesome, but what does it look like after that for Thatcher Demko? We're at almost two months since the season started. When that news broke late in the summer, I was doing shows here. I was doing a show with Sat around the time that it became pretty clear he wouldn't be ready for training camp,

and odds are he wasn't going to be ready. I think at the time our feeling was six weeks would be like the fastest he would be back so now we're past that point it's gonna be a couple of months it would you know like yeah friday at this point seems way way like you know they're not gonna drop him in without without us having a pretty good idea that he's close to coming back because you're right jamie now it's it's less about is he coming back or when he's coming back even though that question still hasn't been answered it's going to be about well what do we understand about the management and the process and the plan for Thatcher Demko to feel good about his game,

to be able to be healthy and play at a high level? I mean, that was the question last season, right? He goes down with the injury late in the year. There is this question of, well, is he going to get enough game time before the playoffs? Are they going to be able to get him into that space? We hear it so often now with goalies in the NHL. It is such a fine line between being in rhythm and being overworked. And it's such a fine line now off, not just game reps, practice reps.

How much time are they spending on ice? Like there was a thing that came up when I was covering the Blue jays at the end of troy tulowitzky's career that they were tracking something that ross atkins would call time on feet they were that you know that was the ultimate thing that they were tracking time on feet how much time was troy tulowitzky spending on his feet so they were you know giving him some a little bit more dh time all of that kind of stuff we're not at that level with with goaltending in hockey but we're getting closer and for a guy like thatcher demko who's dealt with a couple of injuries you know we know that this one he talked about it at training camp it's very rare there there are not a lot of examples to go off of

what that management should be some of it is feel some of it is going to be on the player, right? We are, every pro athlete is going to want to play as much as they can and they're going to push it and they're going to want to be out there even if there are potential long-term ramifications. That is sliding a little bit and I think it's sliding a little bit with goaltenders because like I said, those lines are really fine now between guys that are rolling and

playing well and feeling healthy and having these kinds of issues that, you know, Thatcher Demko obviously isn't happy that he's barely played a hockey game in the last year. I'm very good at managing my time on feet. I keep a pretty close watch on that. Lots keep it pretty, I keep it pretty close, close watch on that. Lots of sitting time, lots of lounging time. I don't want to get that time on feet number too high. That's so funny about too low,

but to your point about like it just going beyond, okay, number of starts. I mean, Drance and I had this conversation a lot on Canucks talk at the beginning of the year, and he reported as much at the athletic as well, that their original plan was

when that your tempo is healthy we want to have three goalies on the roster and the reason wasn't just for managing starts it was because if you're even if you're the backup goalie right you go through game day skate you know what i mean you have to prepare you have to uh you're you're out there with the scratches at the end of the game day skate right helping them get ready you have to prepare as if you might go into the game and that's a lot of you know time on feet time on skates for a goalie and the Canucks are even thinking okay can we eliminate some of those days for Thatcher Demko if he's not going to start right can we give him time off practice all of those things that that becomes easier with a with a three with three goalies on the roster you know she lost play I think it's kind of taken that out

of the decision right they they have to send him down to abbotsford when demko's ready but i suspect we're going to see a lot more kevin lankanen than maybe the canucks even expected one because lankanen has been so good but also just the longer this injury recovery process goes on for thatcher demko i think you have to also be planning for a much more gradual process of getting him back up to something close to a full workload. And even that is not going to be the full workload. You wouldn't think that we've seen him take on in the past, right? Like whatever 100% of his workload is, it's going to be a smaller number, a smaller percentage of starts than we've seen. And, you know, somebody pointed out, right, if they don't play them tomorrow, the game on Sunday is a 1 PM start,

right? So funky start time. Do you want to get them in there? So maybe we're looking at like Tuesday next week, Tuesday or Thursday, they play the blues on Tuesday, the Panthers on Thursday, one of those potentially.

I don't know. I'm all like, I'm kind of also getting to the point though, where it's like, well, you think we'll see him on the homestand? I don't know. I think think so if we don't then that's pretty serious we're not seeing him through christmas that's pretty serious yeah and really when you think about i mean he spoke to the media before they went out on this last road trip and i think the thinking there was well he might

play on this road trip so we want to get him an availability so the media can ask questions before he plays it sounded like he was there was a chance he'd play on the road trip didn't the date just keeps getting kind of pushed back gradually i do think we'll see him on the homestand but if you'd asked me five days ago i would have said 100 and now that percentage has gone down i don't know to where but it's gone down a little bit okay we'll take a break here 650 650 is the dumb is the Dunbar Lumber text line. Remember to send in your What We Learn submissions in to the Dunbar Lumber text line. We'll read them at 830.

Hashtag WWL. What you learned in the last 20 or 24 hours in sports. Thomas Drance from The Athletic. And of course, Sportsnet 650 joins us next here on Halford & Brough. Sportsnet 650.