Halford & Brough in the Morning - Chemistry of Canucks Coaching Staff

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

In hour three, Josh & Jason are joined by Thomas Drance joins the show to shed some light onto the teamwork and chemistry needed within a coaching staff to succeed and how the Canucks seem to be doing a great job at that. The guys later tell us what they learned. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

And what we just have to call Thomas Drance Erotica. Thomas Drance Erotica. Corsi. Thomas Drance Erotica. Expected goals. Thomas Drance erotica. Dark bottom. Thomas Grant's erotica.

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Visit campbell-pound.com today. And we are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Rafit, what are you waiting for? Kintec, you're waiting for that. We go to the phone lines now. Thomas Drance of The Athletic, also Canucks Talk,

here on Sportsnet 650, though that's on hiatus. So now he's just the athletic. Thanks for taking the time, Thomas. How are you? Gentlemen, thanks for having me. Drancer, you've been writing a lot about the coaching staff. So let's start with your conversation with Manny Malhotra. What I got from that piece was Manny Malhotra must be a busy man because he's got to catch

up on everything that the organization does. He's got to put together a coaching staff. He's got to learn the players. He's got to watch old video. Tell us a little bit more about the challenge that Manny Malhotra faces in his first stint as an, as a professional head coach. Yeah. I mean the, you know, context within which Malhotra comes into this club, right. And the way that they've modified under Jim Rutherford and Patrick Alvin, sort of what the American league team in the Fraser Valley feels like and, and how it's built, right? That first couple of years when Abbotsford relocated from Utica, you know, you think about all of those incoming free agents.

I mean, even guys like Kyle Burrows were signed, right? To sort of be like, to wear a C in Abbotsford, ended up playing for the Canucks because things weren't going well at the NHL level in those latter stages of the betting era but uh you know they were they were loaded teams like expensive teams uh second or third highest payroll in the American League which it's important to note is an uncapped league unlike the NHl right you can spend whatever you want uh it's not uncommon for the toronto marlies to you know roll into binghamton new york and have more money or more salary on their first power play unit than their opponent has in their entire roster right like it's it's

a totally different world uh more like more like the mid-90s NHL than the current NHL. And this team has really changed from being one of those big-budget AHL teams to being something different. And this isn't criticism by any means. Like, what do you want to accomplish in the AHL? Do you want to win? Do you want to develop players? The Canucks have changed this to be, to have sort of younger developmental, um, more, I mean, they're more

financially sustainable probably to, um, sort of American league sides. And that's come with challenges. Now, one interesting thing is as this process was ongoing, the team was also hugely successful the last couple of years, um, making making the playoffs hosting playoff home dates um under jeremy cullen who who of course departed uh when the two sides couldn't come to uh an agreement on a contract over the summer in comes malhotra a first-time head coach but a guy who's been an assistant for eight years, obviously played a thousand NHL games, was known for being, you know, part coach in the latter stages of his NHL career, even when he was playing.

Cerebral guy, right? And I thought that came through in the interview, right? Just little things like him telling me that he wanted to watch the video, to do his own homework, even before he got instruction, right. To try and have this sort of clean unvarnished view of, of what he wanted to do in Abbotsford. Like I think that's consistent with a lot of what you've seen from this

Canucks coaching staff across the board, right. That level of thought and thoughtfulness, not, not just in terms of the usual, the, the systems That level of thought and thoughtfulness, not just in terms of the usual, the systems play, the hockey stuff, the experienced hockey guy stuff, but also in terms of, you know, how I come to the information, how I process the information, how do I make the best, least biased assessment, right? How do I make sure that my opinion's not colored by sort of how the organization thought prior to my arrival? I think that's telling about how Malhotra will fit in, but also about who Malhotra is as a really thoughtful hockey guy.

How different is the approach going to be for Manny Malhotra compared to Jeremy Colleton? Because the one thing that seems to be consistent is they want the similar approaches in both the NHL and AHL and making it an easier transition for players coming up from Abbotsford. So how much kind of leeway and creativity does Malhotra have within that? Yeah, I mean, you need to have that consistency. You need to be able to plug Linus Carlsen into a key playoff game and have him play sort of the way that you need, right? Which is something the Canucks got, right?

I mean, one thing you'd say about all of the guys who came up last year, whether it was Baines, whether it was Linus Carlsen, whether it was even Vasily Podkolzin or Niels Hoaglander, who went down for stints and then the club's hoping to get more from them at the NHL level. It was pretty clear that they'd come up with, I'd say, teacher's pet defensive details. All of these players came up and were able to play something that looked to us like Rick Talkett hockey, right?

Last season. So I do think it's important to have that. The way that Talkett looks at it is he sees it as like an 80-20 split, right? Like 80% we need to have that consistency um so that players are prepared but 20 you need to be able to have the latitude as a coach in the american league to to do what's actually going to work for your group right um and sort of that's how malhotra and rick talkative discussed it um you know malhotra described it as refreshing in the piece um and you know i do think there's probably less of you know collins a guy who's been a head coach in the shl he had enormous

success in the american league in rockford um coached in the nhl for the chicago blackhawks and then count comes to utica or sorry comes to abbots Abbotsford. And, you know, that's a, that's a guy who like has his own way of approaching things. So as an example, when talk it first came in to coach the Canucks, right. And that sort of midway through that 22, 23 season, um, down in Utah or down in Abbotsford, they played man defense. We'll talk. It has his own defense system in terms of man coverage. And so, you know, as sort of

a realistic example of how this 80-20 split works, Tockett can call it and have a conversation. Tockett says, hey, look, what you're doing is working for your team now. Finish the season. don't change things up midstream because you know we've changed it up at the nhl level um but in the offseason let's let's move to something similar to what i'm doing right um to sort of my hybrid zone scheme and and so that's how it worked right like that's that's the example of, hey, look, there's practical realities. Your AHL team is going to make the playoffs doing what you're doing.

We're not. You know, don't change what you're doing now. But eventually we're going to want to have consistency systematically. And I think that's sort of how it works. That's that 80-20. And it's something that, you know, I think there's a material difference there, right? Where, sure, the situations were different, but also the idea that Collin has this pre-built sort of way he wants to play. Malhotra's going to find that because this is a role he's never previously held.

Drancer, you've just published an article on The Athletic, and the headline is, Inside How Canucks Coaches Are Preparing to Improve on Last Season's Success. I haven't had time to read it yet, so can you provide us a preview? Yeah, look, I'd had these conversations with Mahotra, with Talkit, and sort of fleshed out just a piece on something that Talkit did last summer and something that the club will do again this summer, which is, you know,

there's a three day summit, which talk it hosts for the coaching staff. And so you've got, you know, the HL coach and Manny Malhotra who actually has a pretty interesting role at this conference. You've got Henrik and Daniel Sedin, you've got Yogi Schipkowski, you've got Adam, but you've got you know Ian Clark Sergei Gonchar there's like 7,000 plus NHL games played in experience on that

coaching staff in addition to what you know all of those gentlemen have done in the league behind the bench and it's sort of a three day summit in which like various coaches do breakout presentations in which you various coaches do breakout presentations in, in which, you know, adjustments, counter adjustments are debated like pretty hotly. You know,

you hammer video, you, you discuss sort of how you want to play, you debate how you want to play. You, you look at how other teams are playing, like which, which, which teams are the best in the league on the breakout? Is it personnel um is it personnel or is it systems how can we close the gap right like that's really the the sort of um what what they do there it fundamentally falls under that you know umbrella of how do we make this team better um and then there's a golf outing because you don't want to fry everyone's brain necessarily

talk it refers to it as a power conference so I went and collected as much detail as I could about that summit and just thought it might be a, you know, interesting and different look at sort of what a, what a summer of preparation looks like for an NHL coaching staff and put that together in my latest at the athletic, uh, really drilling down on like, Hey, the twins, for example, at this conference are going to do a breakout deep dive presentation on face-off plays looking at how the Canucks did last year how they fared in that area looking at how other teams fared in that area including some of the best teams in the league what can the club learn from that what can they draw from that and and one of the interesting notes actually that came out was

you know Malhotra has been tasked with sure he, he'll present on, you know, AHL systems issues and how he wants that team to play and on and on. But also because he's coming from without and the rest of the coaching staff is familiar, right? They've all now been together for the last 18 months, basically. You know, again, sort of back to the thoughtful way that this connects coaching staff processes, even like the dissemination of information internally. They're going to ask him to be sort of a group think buster, right?

Like you're supposed to be, and he's been challenged to be kind of like the guy with the outside view. Bring that outside view, right? The fact that we've been thinking and in the weeds with how this team plays and your sort of professional exposure to it has been like putting together a pre-scout on our team, you know, the two times the Leafs and the Canucks faced each other last season, that there's value there for us and we need you to bring that.

So I think that's sort of just a telling detail about how this organization under Rick Talkett's sort of leadership, how the coaching staff thinks about and is thoughtful about going through these sorts of processes. And you can read a ton of details. I think it's a pretty unique look or glimpse at sort of how Talkett in particular thinks about and approaches uh preparing his staff during the summer is is a coaching summit like this unique to rick talk it and what the canucks are trying to do is this something that like happens around the league with other teams too and and is this something that like talk it has implemented in vancouver or is is this just always kind of been his approach to things because it feels like he's kind of come into the Canucks with this new sense of,

like, hey, he's developed as a coach. He has a lot of thoughtfulness behind everything he does. And I'm not sure, like, he potentially did this in the past, but I'm not sure if it was to the same extent that we're maybe seeing in Vancouver. Yeah, you know, and look, coaches' meetings, the coaching staff getting together for, you know, and look, coaches' meetings, the coaching staff getting together for, you know, an extended meeting or two

prior to the season, I mean, that happens everywhere, but I do think the you know, traveling for it, the way that it sort of incorporates a golf day, these breakout presentations, it's at a level of detail that's not common with what I've seen from nhl

head coaches and coaching staffs or nhl coaching staffs um so so i do think it's maybe a little bit more fleshed out but but i think it's in line with something that's relatively common i think where it's maybe a little bit different is is sort of the level of um like homework and presentation that's sort of drilled down and assigned to the staff and how that sort of functions within a general discussion. Maybe it's a little bit more formalized. I don't think it's like a bonkers off the wall, totally new idea so much as I think there's some unique ways in how talk it approaches and structures it, which I think are telling. And that's sort of why I wanted to pick at those details and flesh it out for our piece.

To answer who is responsible for fixing the power play. Yeah, so Yogi Shevkovsky is going to present on that, but he's been working closely with Tocantin on it. And then I think there's also a presentation by Yogi that, well, I know there's a presentation by Yogi that's focused more generally on offensive strategy, right? And I think the rush attack is a big part of that. I also think figuring out some answers

and some counter adjustments to how teams began to play the Hughes-Heronik pair differently in the second half of last season, right? I think there's space that the team believes that they can tap into and believes they did tap into at times over the course of last season, but want to have better answers. I think just for what happens when teams do as the Vegas Golden Knights did when they sort of abandoned their zone defensive scheme,

usually called Boston one, if you're into the jargon and sort of just like jail broke to cover the points, right? Like that, that's what happened in that early December Vegas win over Vancouver is, is they really crashed the points defensively, like really decided that the focal point

of the Canucks attack wasn't to take away space down low the way we'd approach it with every other team. But let's make sure that Hughes and Kronick don't have space. Well, that's where the puck was always going. Right, well, and that's where at once Cassidy and company put that on tape,

there's a feeling that things changed for the Canucks and and after that you know I mean we get to the playoffs and we saw the Nashville Predators front every shot like a pretty extreme sort of approach there oh I missed that word fronting I think we said that remember 6,000 times during that series but it was also crazy to watch right like it was the Predators were willing to sacrifice, you know, a lot of zone time themselves, a lot of aggression themselves

to make sure that they were blocking every point shot. I mean, it was a pretty incredible sort of thing. And so it makes sense that that's another big preoccupation. But yeah, Schivkovsky will present on the power play. Power play remains under Tokic's direction. big preoccupation but yeah a shivkovsky will present on the power play power play uh remains under talk its direction um but obviously the the twins yogi like there's going to be a collective effort here and as we saw down the stretch when the power play sort of lost momentum and then and then did the canucks no favors in the playoffs most notably in game seven against the oilers

yeah i i mean i think that's going to be certainly certainly to be a fly on the wall for that, right? That feels like maybe one of the most important sort of subjects for this coaching staff to tackle. And it's something they will tackle over the course of August. Drancer, just a couple of minutes left here. But do you think all this is energizing for the coaching staff to have something new to think about and potentially energizing for the players, because we all knew the things that they had to fix last season. And, you know, Rick Talkett can't come in and just say the same old,

same old. He has to have a new message. He has to energize the players in a different way. Yeah. You know, I, you'd hope so. I mean mean i i like from the outside right the idea that this team can have the success that it did last season and then you've got your key organizational leaders saying i need to be better we need to be better we're going to work all summer on being better in in specific areas right i think that's a sign of a bar raising, right? And to me, like, even to me, I see that and I'm like, okay, let's go. Like, that's a level. It's cool. It'll be interesting.

Well, it's also a level of ambition and thoughtfulness that I don't know that I'd come to expect, you know, in previous years. And so to have that now, I do think is a sign of progress, right? Whether or not next season is as successful as last season was, you know, I think the bones to, you know, build a robust team that's doing things intelligently, that's thinking differently about these things, like, I think that's necessary, right? You just think about like the best eras of Canucks hockey, and they've all seemed to coincide with organizational leadership, trying different things.

And this to me is sort of, you know, the tip of the spear of the Canucks approaching things. I think the way you have to, to get an edge in the contemporary NHL. Drancer, thanks for this today. Thanks for taking the time. Thanks for giving us Canucks talk on this July 31st.

We really appreciate it. Have you been enjoying the Olympics, watching any of it? Dude, I love the Olympics. I'm such a sucker. Yeah, it's been great. I've really enjoyed the basketball.

I've been watching a lot of it. Are you worried about Jamal Murray? Well, no. I mean, he was on a minutes cap all pre-tournament, and he wasn't very good down the stretch in the NBA playoffs either because he's been battling through an injury. So I just had pretty low expectations, I think. I wonder if it's tendonitis.

I don't know. I mean, he's not right. He's clearly not right. Just like Joel Embiid is a big problem for Team USA, right? Yeah. You know, so, but I'd also add this. Like, to me, that Canadian basketball team, you know, what makes them special, in my view, yeah, obviously the backcourt on paper is amazing, but it's really that you've got a closer

who's probably better right now in Shea than anyone on Team USA, and you've got enough of that wing-sized defenders, Dort, Barrett, and Brooks. There's a lot of teams with guys who can make threes. There's not a lot of teams with guys who can make threes and blow up plays defensively. Canada's got a bunch of them, and that's sort of what makes them special. I do think ultimately against Team USA they're going to be too small,

but the fact that they have the best crunch time guy, like the guy I'd want taking the last shot on either team, man, if they can keep that close, it's going to be interesting. I just want to see them play the Americans. I want to see them have a game. I don't expect them to win, but I want them to try, at least.

We'll see how the point differential breaks down, but they beat Spain tomorrow. Sorry, Friday. They beat Spain on Friday. They'll be in the driver's seat to have that sort of positioning where you don't bump into the States until the gold medal game, which would be

sick. Thrilling. Alright, Drancer, well, enjoy the rest of the Olympics. A big soccer game for Canada today against Columbia, and thanks for taking the time, buddy. See ya. Anytime, guys. Bye. Alright, that was Thomas Drance from The Athletic and Sportsnet

650. Get your What We Learns into the Dunbar-Lumber text line at 650-650. We will start with a few what we learns of our own, and then we will dig into the text inbox. You're listening to the Alfred and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Now for my favorite part of the show. What'd I say? Talk to the audience.

Oh, God, this is always dead. It's what we learn time. It's what we learn time. It's what we learn time. On the show. 831, Halford & Brough, final segment of the show.

Josh Elliott-Wolf filling in for Mike Halford. This hour of Halford & Brough is brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers.

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on the 650-650 Dunbar Lumber Tech sign. The Bridge Street Dunbar Lumber and Ladner has moved to progress with Tilbury's Industrial Park. More room, more product,

more awesome details at Dun dumbarlumber.com. Okay, do you want to start what we learned? Because I think you learned something in the last little while. Yes. So since we talked about the pool, I have done my research on the track. Okay, so if you're just joining us, we learned today that there is such a thing as a slow pool compared to a fast pool. And if you want to learn all about that,

you download the podcast and Basketball Ben had a good explanation of that. In Paris, they got a slow pool. Yeah. And that's why. It's trash. There aren't any world records being set in Paris. Just a wave pool, I think.

Then someone texted into the show and said, you know, they've got like fast tracks too, like the track and field track, you know, they've got those. And we said, we did not know that. So you did a little research probably while Drance was talking about Manny Malhotra or whatever Drance is talking about. Uh, what did you learn? So there was an article on the BBC nine days ago, specifically about this track in Paris. First off, it's purple. There's a lot of purple going on in Paris. It's a purple track?

It's a purple track. Okay. Go Huskies. Because France's flag, blue and red. Oh, they combined it. Is that why? I think so, because there's been a lot of purple in Paris. Like the boxing ring was purple.

There's a lot of like bluish purple colors. I don't know. Those are the pieces I'm putting together. It's a good theory. I like it. I like it. But it is designed by Barizio Strapiana whose company made the track. And they have made the track for every Olympics since 1976. The Mond the mondo group what do you guys do for a living

oh we make tracks yeah we make cool all right okay so so fast track slow tracks what did you learn this is the fastest track made by that company yet it is a fast track. It is 2% faster than Tokyo's. And how do you measure that? Well, that's a good question. So they have beneath the purple lies a rubber track. It has two layers. And I guess they measure like the shock and the bounce, the air that is absorbed and pushed out and all of that.

So basically, the way it used to be is you would have a hard track and that would be better for sprinters, but long-distance runners didn't love it. You would have a soft track and long-distance runners loved it because it was more cushion, whatever. This is theoretically their new track tech is supposed to be good for both, but it'll like... I bet it's not. It'll probably be better for the sprinters,

which is good. It's kind of like ice in hockey. The figure skaters, I think, like it a little softer so they can land their jumps. But if you've ever shared a rink that has a lot of figure skating on it, as a hockey player, it stinks because first of all, you're playing on soft ice.

So that creates a lot of snow by the end of the game, but also you get ruts in the ice. So we're learning a lot of stuff today. Yeah, there's been questions about the ice at Rogers Arena. A lot of people saying it's slow ice. I feel like it is slow ice. Right. If we were to say it's slow ice.

Most of the NHL is slow ice. The challenges of creating good ice in the NHL, I know a lot of people think, well, they should be able to do it. They should be able to spend a lot of money on it. It's really tough. They're multipurpose facilities. Yeah, and you've got 20,000 people in there creating warmth. And yeah, it's tough.

I guess, is it about a decade ago that they started really turning down the temperature, like putting the AC on in the arenas? Yes. Right? Because it wasn't always that way. Sometimes you'd go, you'd be like, it is hot in here. And now if you go to a Canucks game, bring your jacket. It's cold.

Yeah. And I've memorized the top five ice services that the players vote on every year. Okay. And it's very interesting. It used to always be Edmonton. So Edmonton's in the top five. Still? In their new arena?

But Rexall Place was like top of the top. It was always number one. Well, the person that makes their ice, I think, does like Olympic ice. Okay. And does all that stuff. Montreal's up there. Edmonton. Vegas.

Interesting. A bit surprising. Minnesota and Winnipeg. Right. I wonder if Vegas. Minnesota and Winnipeg, all these cold weather cities, and then Vegas, a new building. That's what I was going to say.

I wonder if it's just because of the new building. Because the thing that they've talked about for Rogers Arena, like Kevin Woodley, I think, has talked about it. If they're going to improve the ice, they have to change everything within the building. And that is just such a high cost that it probably won't happen, at least for a long time. Whether they're going to focus on the seats first.

Yeah. I wonder if they're going to have new seats in there. You don't think they will? I think they will. I don't know. I haven't heard anything. Last year we got so many updates on seats. I haven't seen anything, which is a bit sus. I kind of hope there isn't because I actually started to befriend one of the mice that lives in one of the seats there.

Good for you. And I would go there and sit and I'd say hi and I'd feed it some popcorn and we had a good little relationship. Don't give it a cookie because you know what happens if you give a mouse a cookie? What? It's going to ask for milk and so on. Right. This is a kid's book. You didn't get the reference.

I didn't. That's okay. What's a kid's book? It's a 98 kids reference. Yeah. Ben, did you get it? I got it. Right. This is a kid's book. You didn't get the reference. I didn't. That's okay. What's a kid's book? It's a 98 kid's reference. Yeah. Ben, did you get it? I got it. All right.

Okay. It's a kid's book. If you give him that. Hey, I'm reading about why Vegas has such good ice. Thank you, Larry. Thank you. Bill Falls, their facilities manager, is just incredibly on top of it. He has a way to control the temperature from his house.

Whoa. And he'll actually move it up and down depending on the temperature outside. And, of course, he also mentions they have a very robust cooling system built into the stadium. The owner does this? Bill Falls. Oh, I thought you said Foley. I was like, that is amazing. Bill Foley.

He's very hands-on as an owner. He's up today. I got to turn it down. I feel like today is a cold day. All right, give us a mookow on all that. I learned something, and I'm curious to hear Josh's take on it, because Josh is a Vikings fan, and that's probably been very difficult for him.

It's sad. The Chicago Bears have announced a contract extension for wide receiver DJ Moore for a year, $110 million extension. And all of a sudden, you look at the depth chart, and I realize they already had DJ Moore. But all of a sudden, you look at the depth chart in Chicago, and you've got DJ Moore, who all of a sudden you look at the depth chart in Chicago and you've got DJ Moore, who's pretty good. They drafted Roma Dunze out of Washington, who's pretty good. And they got Keenan Allen from the Chargers. Yeah.

It's a pretty good trio of receivers there. As a Vikings fan, are you worried about the Chicago Bears or are you mostly just worried about you know being a Vikings fan yeah that's kind of the main priority is being a Vikings fan and and that's the the main issue most of the time the Bears so in terms of like can you power rank that division right now yeah that's what I was gonna do so in terms of the Bears like they're going to be better than the Vikings but I don't like they're going to be better than the Vikings, but I don't think they're going to be better than the Packers or the Lions. And I think the Lions are the clear favorite in that division.

Yeah. The Packers. And maybe it's because like, I hate them more than any team in the world. So you think the Vikings are going to be the worst in the division? Yeah. Who was their starting quarterback? Sam Darnold or JJ McCarthy. Oh yeah. But it'll probably be Sam Darnold to start. in the division yeah who's their starting quarterback sam darnold or jj mccarthy oh yeah

but it'll probably be sam darnold to start and then i could see jj mccarthy getting in at some point during the season do you think mccarthy will be a good nfl quarterback where did the where did they draft him they drafted him uh i believe it was at 10 i forgot the exact number okay they traded up one spot for him i remember. There was talk that they were going to trade up into the top five to get him, and that would have cost quite a bit of draft capital. So I'm glad they didn't end up doing that because I'm not super high on McCarthy. But at the place they got him, at the pick they got him, I'm fine with the bet. I'm still not super confident that he's going to be this franchise-changing quarterback.

That's the most interesting division in football next season and no disrespect, but the Vikings are the least interesting of the team. Can the Lions progress even further from what they've done? The Green Bay Packers and Julian Love, how good can he get as a

quarterback? And then the Chicago Bears with Caleb Williams and all the added talent they've added around him. Give us a moo cow on that one. Basketball, Ben, Laddie, do you have a what we learned? Or we can go right into that. Mine was the pool one. Yours was the pool one. And then, okay.

All right. Let's go. Let's print off the submissions into the Dunbar Lumber text line. Rob and Suri, what we learned, what I've learned is that handball needs to be normalized in North America. What a great sport. And talk about a sport that has absolutely no

impact or significance in North America. I was just in Denmark and handball is massive in Denmark. Denmark's one of the best teams in the world. And I was asking, they were asking me, you know, like, um, you know, what sports are most popular in, in, in, in Canada. And, and I had talked about this earlier.

They were surprised about how much soccer knowledge, uh, the Canadians, uh, at this family reunion I was at had. And, um, and they asked like does handball do you guys like handball like because we love handball and i was like i don't know a thing about handball but it looks cool i've always wondered why it isn't more popular here because anytime i've you know played it i've never it. When would you have played handball? In high school. Oh, okay. I played it in gym class and stuff.

So much in PE. Yeah. And it's a lot of fun. It looks like fun, right? You're just trying to. It's electric. Did you play just with a volleyball and hockey nets, basically? It's like a dodgeball.

Yeah. They have hockey nets. Sometimes we would use soccer nets, I think. Or indoor soccer nets. So how do you move? You don't have to dribble or anything. No, I don't believe you're allowed to move. Like you can take a catch step or whatever if someone throws to you,

but it's all in the air. No, I think you can take three steps. Is it that? It's like basketball rules, but you can't dribble. I've never watched a handball game in my life, but maybe I should. And there's a crease. You can't go in the crease. You take three steps, and the crease is big.

Yeah. Right. You must pass or make an attempt on goal. Can you jump and throw it and land in the crease? Yes. I believe so.

You see some sick highlights from the Olympics. Like they're diving sideways. Yeah. Throwing it. Mike, the urologist from Brockville, what we learned

with Penny, the most recent early retirement for an NFL player player it speaks to how tough being an NFL player is on the body I think there's no other sport that compares and from that I wonder why Bo Jackson why didn't Bo Jackson just play baseball

would have been a better move for his body and financially maybe he loved it he loved football I think he liked football and also like there's a certain um allure to being someone who can do both like playing the nfl and major league baseball did bow have an ego did he like being the best yeah he was a driven guy he was a driven guy and he and he wanted to be good and um i mean i've never been at that level, but I imagine that's pretty cool to play a game like football and dominate at the level that Bo Jackson did.

I also think that there's a pride in playing a tough game. You know, one of the things that when I coach kids in hockey and a lot of them are obviously young kids and inexperienced kids, and sometimes they're scared. You just ignore them. No, I don't. I, I, you build them up by saying like, you guys are tough for just being out here. Like there are things that you have to learn and you have to have a willingness to go into corners and take a hit to make a play, but you need to, um, you need to encourage them by saying like, you are tough just by playing this game. Some kids won't play this game.

They refuse to play this game. They won't even go out on the ice. And if you can build them up that way, um, I think it makes them more confident in those situations. And then you take pride in that. And that's why you hear a lot of players in the NHL. They're like, I don't take fighting out of the game. I don't take the nastiness out of the game.

And some people don't really understand that. And they sit there like, yeah, but like you're arguing against your own health. Yeah. But you're also arguing against your own ego that takes pride in having the courage to go out there and play a very tough and demanding sport. And I think there must be an element of that in football. Like I've got the guts and the courage to go play football. Do you?

Yeah, I don't. No, I don't. Yeah. Well, it's the same with like, so MMA, I'm not, uh, I'm not a fan, not because I don't like the violence of the sport or I think I'm, you know, too good to watch it. I just, for whatever reason, I don't enjoy it. Right.

I don't, I don't find it fun. But one thing I do admire is the courage that it takes to go into the ring or the octagon or whatever, and you're looking across and you're looking at your opponent and going like, look at that guy, look how tough that guy is. That guy might be nuts. Right. And to be able to do that, I at that guy. Look how tough that guy is. That guy might be nuts. Right. And to be able

to do that, I think that is extremely impressive. And I think a lot of these guys, they like to be able to do that and to go challenge themselves in that way. Do you think it would be different, not to spend too much time on this. Do you think it would be different if you were like naturally talented at one of these things? Like if you were a naturally talented MMA fighter and you just found out one day? Um, yeah, I think that would make a difference for sure. I think natural talent plays a role in all of it, but you could be naturally talented and you could also, um, be scared of getting hit. Yeah. Fair enough. Uh, what we learned, the Seattle Mariners are 1,000 and 1,000, so perfectly 500 over their last 2,000 games.

Right where they want to be. That is from Marcus and Gibson's, the definition of mediocre. Mid. Your Seattle Mariners. Man, that's a step up from when I was a kid. Mediocre? We'll take that. Now they are clearly the the definition of they better make

the playoffs this year yeah but like even if they make the playoffs what are they doing in the playoffs yeah no that's true good pitching lincoln and surrey uh following up on our interview with brady henderson about seahawks training camp and new head coach mike mcdonald lincoln and surrey writes in mcdonald sounds a lot more like my parents than Pete Carroll with the lighting up, the calling out, and the measured praise. It'll be real interesting to see how the culture in Seattle changes now that Pete Carroll isn't there. Because Pete Carroll, I don't know if this is a saying, but he kind of ran a loose ship. Do you know what I mean?

He let the players be themselves, and in a lot of ways it was a good thing. There was a lot of energy in the practices. He let the guys, again, just be themselves, but at times, especially when the team was losing, that looks like a lack of discipline. And when DK Metcalf or Jamal Adams is, you know, in their interviews, they almost show, they seem to show almost a lack of respect

for the coaching staff, then that becomes a problem. Now, Jamal Adams is fortunately no longer with the Seattle Seahawks, but DK Metcalf is, and I'll be curious to see how, what that relationship is like between the coaching staff and DK Metcalf because DK Metcalf is an incredibly talented player. He is wildly talented.

He is also sometimes undisciplined. Um, and he is frankly a little bit immature at times. And I'll be curious to see what Mike McDonald does with that because if you look at that Seahawks offense, even if you don't think Geno Smith is an elite quarterback, which he isn't, but he's a good quarterback, and if you've got DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett, and I know Lockett's getting on a little bit,

but he's still a pretty good player. Jackson Smith and Jigba, that is a really good trio of receivers, and that should be a strength. And DK Metcalf really should be the best of all three, and he needs to show that, and he needs to be more of a leader for this team now. And I wonder if Mike McDonald will have kind of like a special special you know like rick talker with jt miller yeah rick talker came in and he made no

bones about it he was like i'm gonna work with jt on how to be a better leader and jt had all that passion and you just wanted to challenge channel it the right way i wonder if there could be a similar project with dk mccaff in seattle yeah I could see that. I do wonder how that fit is going to work. I'm interested to see how both the offense and the defense run for Seattle this year because it feels like there should be quite a lot of changes. This one, what we learned, I learned Brock Besser hasn't been a slow skater all these years. It's just Rogers Arena ice. The ice needs a minimum depth. Yeah hasn't been a slow skater all these years it's just rogers arena ice the minimum that the ice needs a slow ice yeah it's a slow ice two or two inches and it's only a 2.1 need to get to three inches i'll be curious to see how much faster the canucks look

next season first of all with their additions of debrusk and heinen um but also maybe system-wise you can look a lot faster than you really are. If you play fast and you move the puck fast and you break out of your end well, that was always the thing with those Vegas Golden Knights teams of the early years where they just, do you remember how they dominated the Canucks? Like they owned the Canucks and they just

came at you in waves and you were like, oh my God, this is the fastest team in the world. And Colorado, the year they won the Stanley Cup, just incredibly fast. But they have incredibly fast skaters in Nathan McKinnon and Kael McCarr. But that was one of the things that Patrick Alveen earmarked for the offseason.

He said, we got to get faster and we'll see if they've gotten faster. All right, a couple texts. What are you talking about? If the Mariners make the playoffs, they have the starting pitching to compete well. Learn baseball, will you? You still got to score some runs.

I imagine they had good pitching. Yeah, you mentioned they had good pitching. But you still got to score. That's part of it. Hey, the guy like Eugenio Soares, who had three homers yesterday. Yeah. He would have been nice to have.

Would have been nice to have. Well, would you rather have a good pitching team or a good hitting team going into the playoffs? Because I'd take pitching. Playoffs is always pitching. Yeah, I would take pitching, but I still think there needs to be a baseline you need to meet offensively. Of course.

And I don't know if the Mariners are meeting that right now, but also just because I'm a Jays fan, I still hope the Mariners do well. Robin Suri, he's an elementary school teacher and he said, to add to the handball conversation, in PE class, it is easily the kid's most favorite sport to play in every single class I've taught. The kids love it. And yes, you can only take three steps.

We typically play with floor hockey nets and you can't score from within the basketball key. It's an excellent mix of all sports and anyone can play it. All you need to be able to do is catch and throw. I kind of want to play handball now. I would honestly handball is maybe one of the most fun sports that I didn't think would be fun that I've played. And Ben,

you like, you've probably played a lot of handball too. I love it. It's so fun. Yeah. How much do you guys miss PE class? Dude, I think about this so much. Here's an hour where you're-

With your best friends. I know school can be tough at times, but you're hanging out with your friends. Yeah, you've got some responsibilities. You've got to go to class, and sometimes those classes are boring, but then you're like, oh, you've got some responsibilities. You've got to go to class, and sometimes those classes are boring, but then you're like, oh, you've got an hour to play sports.

I also can't think about running around for an hour now, and then just sitting down for the rest of the- I never had a shower at school. Oh, good. No, me neither. No, me neither. I'm just like, yep, time to go to math class.

Yeah, yeah. And just sitting there in your filth. X equals three. I do. You guys are closer to high school, though i miss it i'm well not high school i miss pe class um because yeah just the idea of like hey you can go out and play this organized sport and you have enough players for two teams now imagine like trying to organize 20 people to go play a random sport that isn't like a rec league. You know what's funny is though? Like some people, probably not listening to the show, some people were like, oh God, it's PE.

This is the worst part of my day. For sure. The Ben's and the Josh's and the Jason's and the Greg's are going to take it so seriously. And I'm going to get yelled at because I didn't catch a ball in softball or something like that. Or I, I didn't kick the ball well in California kickball. And I just want this hour to be over. Can I please, do you remember, do you remember like how cruel, uh, some of those games got like, like you would, you know,ia kickball or something for the people that's or you'd be like bring in the outfield right just bring it way in on the infield and it was just like i look back at that time and i think about like god just to win something in pe class you

were willing to throw someone pretty heavily under the bus. And the PE teachers would be like, good tactics. That was good. Bring it in. I'm a receiver in PE football. I'm throwing up 600 yards per hour. YVR Ray. I'm going to leave YVR Ray with the final what we learned. What I learned is that winners never cheat and cheaters never win unless, of course,

you're the Canadian Olympic soccer team. Go Canada, go. Let's keep it going and go for gold. Yeah, big game at noon. Canada and Columbia. Go Canada. Looking forward to that. Appreciate everyone texting in, everyone listening today.

Thank you to Basketball Ben. Thank you to Laddie. Thank you to Jason Brough. I've been Josh Elliott-Wolf. This has been Halpern and Brough on Sportsnet 650.