Halford & Brough in the Morning - Could Braeden Cootes Force His Way Onto The Canucks Roster?

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they talk the Canucks signing their first round draft pick Braeden Cootes to an entry-level contract yesterday (3:00), plus they speak with ESPN boxing writer Mark Kriegel (25:35) about his new book, "Baddest Man: The Making of Mike Tyson".  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- Straus sends a fly ball to center, Robert is there, and that's the ball game. The Blue Jays fall to the White Sox 2-1 here this afternoon, as their 10-game winning streak comes to an end. And there it is, the killer touch from Djokovic. And Cavalli's magical run comes to an end on center court, beaten by his idol. And Djokovic once more, beaten in one set, but unbowed in the match. Center court is beaten by his idol and Djokovic once more, beaten in one set but unbowed in the match. Center court is his again. Super cool, but yeah, I know a lot of people out here in Vancouver, I spent a year here playing hockey when I was younger, so I have lots of friends here

and people I know, so yeah, just super excited. Good morning Vancouver, 6-1 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday. Everybody is how pretty it is. Brought to you by Sportsnet 650. We are coming live from the Kintec studios and beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning to you. Good morning. And producer Elon. Good morning to you as well. Half of the morning is brought to you by Sands and associates BCs first and trusted choice for debt help with over three thousand five star reviews visit them online at sands-trusty

Dot-com we are coming to you live from the kintex studio kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step a very cool Thursday show pretty cool show a couple cool guys wearing their black t-shirts again again again Regardless, it's a very cool show even though we look like we're dressed up for a funeral. We've got a very eclectic guest list today. It begins at 6.30. Mark Kriegel is gonna join the program. He's an author, he's a journalist, television commentator,

often regarded as perhaps the finest boxing writer in America. He's the author of the new book, Baddest Man, The Making of Mike Tyson, New York Times bestselling author, Mark Kriegel is gonna join us at 6.30. Very excited to talk to Mark in about half hour's time. Seven o'clock, Alex Adams,

SENS reporter for Sportsnet is gonna join the program. So we continue in our look around the Canadian markets and what they've done in free agency thus far. We've done Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg. And now it's Ottawa, GM Steve Steyos. According to Elliot Friedman, quote, hit a lot of singles in free agency. And if it's good enough for the Jays, it's good enough for the Sens. What the Sens are playing small ball too? the sons are playing small ball too. They've bumped it along in free agency. I think that's the equation of how they, they got to collage ruin a one year bunt deal. So we'll talk to Alex Adams about all that

at seven o'clock as we go to Ottawa. 7.30 it's Adnan Virk, our MLB Network insider here on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. Jays lose as Elon played in the intro. The win streak is over. They'll just have to start a new one when they take on Oakland before the All-Star break. Speaking of the All-Star game and the All-Star break, what on earth is the ABS challenge system? Because they're going to be trying

it out at the All-Star game. We'll get answers from Adnan from MLB Network and that's coming up at 7.30. Now I mentioned we had an eclectic show at eight o'clock this morning Long time Canucks defenseman and Smithers native Dan Ham use is gonna join the program. This is exciting Dan Ham use is going into the BC Hockey Hall of Fame on Saturday alongside Sean Horkoff Why'd you get injured in 2011? Yeah first question first question. Why did you try and hip check Milan Luchic? He's like guys, it's 14 years ago, we need to move on. Can we talk about something else, please? No, we will not.

And then at the end, we'll be like, also you're going into the BC Hockey Hall of Fame. So, Ham Hughes is gonna join us at eight o'clock. There's so many things that we wanna ask Dan about, and we're very excited to do it in the final hour of the program today. So working in reverse on the guest list, eight o'clock, Dan Ham Hughes,

7.30, Adnan Virk, seven o'clock Alex Adams, 630 Mark Kriegel. That's what's happening on the program today. Elon, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was busy. We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed that? You missed that? What happened? You know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed that? You missed that? What happened?

What happened? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. We are gonna begin yet again

with another signing from the Vancouver Canucks. This time, an entry-level deal for the 15th overall pick in this year's draft. Braden Coots has signed his three-year entry-level contract with the Vancouver Canucks. The 18-year-old, of course, finished last season with the Seattle Thunderbirds, where he was the captain. He went to the development camp out at UBC

shortly after getting drafted, and now he has signed his ELC with the Vancouver Canucks. You know, it's funny, now that he signed his ELC, he can't go to the NCAA. Yeah. Like this is something that we monitor now. It was the first thing that I thought about when I heard his name and then I'm like,

wait, he's a professional now. Signed his entry level deal. Yeah, can't go. No college hockey for him. So he'll go back to the Teebirds or or Okay Is this a conversation that?

That we need to have or is this is this is this ridiculous is there a chance? This is July 10th reach conversation down summer reach covers. I think it might be But let's have it anyway, but let's have it anyway is there a chance he sees some games with the Canucks this season just because He's a center and the Canucks right now Don't have the most depth down the middle a lot of people have penciled in ought to rot to into the lineup A lot of people have penciled in Ato Ratu into the lineup. What if he outplays a guy like Ratu? What if for some reason the Canucks trade Teddy Bluger

before actually getting another center in? Is there, like, is it worth having the conversation or is this just, he's the 15th overall pick guys, he's not gonna be in the NHL next season or do we at least say like well maybe he'll play like up to nine games or something like that it's been a while for the Canucks since there's been one of those conversations. The only reason it's a viable conversation I think is because there is a bit of recent historical context that we at least need to consider when it comes to Braden Kutz.

Last year, Philadelphia with the 13th overall pick took Jet Lachenko. And that's two spots off where the Canucks took Braden Kutz this year. Lachenko came in, kind of did the same thing, went to their development camp, showed out very well. They were very keen to get them locked up to his ELC. Then he went to training camp and he showed very well again.

And then he played some exhibition games and showed well again. And he ended up playing four games at the start of the regular season. One of them was against the Vancouver Canucks, if I'm not mistaken, very early in the year. And it was a again, Luchenko, also a center. It was on a Philadelphia team that didn't have a ton of depth down the middle. Now, Philadelphia ended up being a worse team than the Vancouver Canucks last year, although and Lachenko didn't.

Lachenko lasted a grand total of four games, but there was a few things there. One, the opportunity presented itself because of the lack of depth that the Flyers had down the middle to they wanted to reward the player. And also they wanted to give them that taste of what it's like to be a professional as quickly as possible to maybe try and expedite things. I don't know if the connects are in the same sort of expedition era. I don't think so.

Like, you know, they've also got, even if there's an injury in camp, you know, they've also got a guy like Max Sassen or Linus Carlsen would play the middle in a pinch, but I don't know, it's worth bringing up, I think. Maybe more importantly, is this, you know how we were talking about Gary Lupel yesterday? Yes. Okay, so Lupel was the first guy that I ever heard

when he had the puck you do the ooh Lou and then the connects of course had The long go now they haven't done it with Hughes, but that's a little bit different, right? It's not a pure ooh, right? Coots is a pure ooh. He does have the double O's in his is is he gonna get that treatment? Does does does he see some games because of that do you think? Yeah, your name's really channeble marketing wants to get you in here So he tickets. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like how many how many guys have the Canucks? But it could also be jeers like cooties if he's in a no no no no no no no I'm saying you got you run that risk

Though yes the classic cooties jeer. Yeah, exactly Okay What if I start playing really well for us and then he goes to like an away arena and gets scarred because of that So you got to protect the players sometimes do? Why do you ruin every first segment? What about the inverse yeah exactly, you know We didn't even get started on the on the though, before you jumped in and ruined it. I'm excited to have a new OO on the Canucks. Lots of people are weighing in with this exact take, which is very troubling.

But also, you were asking who the last one was, right? Who would have been the last one? It was a Luongo, I think. Yeah, it must have been Lou. And then who else have they had in theirongo, I think. Yeah, it must have been Lou. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then who else have they had in their history? I think about Gary Lupel. Loops, Lou, and...

Coots, Cooter, Cooties. No, okay. Cootsie. Is it gonna be Cootsie? Anyway, on a more serious note, if you start to squint and look at it from a distance, connects Prospect Pool, not half bad. All of a sudden, it does say something when you make one 15th overall pick

and it, you know, I don't want to say drastically improves your depth in terms of actually see games next year, though, like he actually that I can't see it. We just we just talked about it. I know. But I'm just asking again, though. There's the only the only way that he would really is at the beginning of the season. Yeah, so I I Tend to doubt it, but with the Canucks situation down the middle We'll have to wait and see okay. What else happened yesterday?

I do want to turn our attention now to the hockey the or show the hockey the soccer so yesterday There was a bunch of games in the Canadian championship. So this competition, uh, for those that don't know has been dominated by your Vancouver whitecaps for the last three years. They are the Canadian champions, three years running, and that is how they qualified for the CONCACAF Champions League, the Champions Cup, which they went to the final two and lost to Cruz Azul. They're back at it this time and it was a really, really unimpressive, but narrow victory yesterday against CPL side Valor.

Two one victory for the Vancouver Whitecaps late yesterday. We've got audio of the match winning goal. The Norwegian defender Bjorn Utvik at the death. Here he is climbing the ladder to go up and head home to put Valor down. Whitecaps win two-one. Here's what it sounded like late from Bjorn Utvik. Preso. Nelson.

Nelson's ball. It's up, eight-and-ten. Bjorn Utvik with the second header this time as the 90th expires. So the interesting thing here isn't necessarily the Vancouver moved on because they were heavy favorites and they managed to again, despite a pretty underwhelming performance, Jaden Nelson in his walk off interview yesterday said, we made that way harder than we needed to.

And he's right. They absolutely did. But the interesting thing now is the the whitecaps go into the final for the semifinals of this competition as the only MLS team remaining. They better win this again. And it's interesting that they could host a final against Vancouver. Yes. So Vancouver, there was a new draw. Yeah. Which caught everyone by surprise.

It was like, wait a minute, there's a draw here? I love this. It looks like, I was looking at the bracket and the bracket said this. So I love this competition because everyone finds out about what's next the moment before it happens. So in the earlier stages of the Canadian championship, there was a match, I believe, it was involved Calgary because their manager, Tommy Wheeldon Jr. was unaware that matches went straight to penalties after regulation. They're like, it's a rule.

We didn't really explain it to everyone. We probably should have whatever. Also, they used to have an away goals rule. And now that's gone. And now yesterday on one soccer, they did a live draw for the semifinal to which everyone said, Oh, I thought there was a bracket that already existed. So things are happening fast and furious. Okay.

So Vancouver is going to play Forge FC and they're the Lattie team. Yeah, they're out of Hamilton. From Hamilton. And then Vancouver FC is going to play, sometimes I hate it how we do this in North America, Atletico Ottawa. You got to give them a pass because they actually are affiliated with Atletico Madrid, but it is kind of. Okay.

Are they CPL? They're CPL. Okay. So they're the same league as Vancouver FC. And the same league as Forge and the same league is pretty much the one that's dominated this competition so far because TFC bowed out early and then yesterday Forge beat FC Montreal in a huge upset. So it is now, it's the Whitecaps tournament to lose even though they have not been

overwhelmingly good in this tournament. And yesterday, you know what, for as much as they'll say, well, by the end of the match it was sort sort of their second squad out there like Bearhalter got in the match. Why? Half time. Yeah. Brian White was in the match. There was a lot of the regulars in the Whitecaps lineup there, and they had to scratch and claw and fight their way. Sometimes that happens in these cup competitions. I'm sure that everything that happened yesterday was in part

because the Whitecaps have their eye on the weekend's game where they're going gonna take on Colorado in a very important MLS clash. But whatever the case, the Whitecaps move on. If we were to get the Vancouver v Vancouver Derby in the final, I think it would be fantastic. It would add some real sizzle to this competition. Because-

Well, it would be huge for Vancouver FC. Yeah, I mean, it already is. This, you know, yesterday. No, no, no, no, no. It already is, but it's not- It's not as huge as taking on the Vancouver Whitecaps. It's not that big for them. And they really haven't had any big newsworthy moments.

Nope. Despite the fact that we get PR emails about them, we get three a day. At least. It's crazy. I've almost been like, please do not send me any more emails, Vancouver FC, I do not need to know. How do I unsubscribe from this? I know, there's no unsubscribe button too.

It's so aggressive. And I feel, I'm a pretty rude guy, but I'm not rude enough to do that. Whatever it gets what they're doing now? You emailed me. Whatever lack of hustle they have on the pitch, they've made up for it with their hustle in the email game. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Um, but, but that would be, that would be a big moment for them. So I would say it's, you know, I know the white caps take a lot of pride about winning the Canadian championship and it also opens doors to other competitions Which is very important. So it's very important for the white caps But this you know that they need to get to the final. Thank you for FC If they don't they'll be very very disappointed. Okay other things that happened last night We mentioned this and then in the intro Major League Baseball's hottest team

Well, they finally lost the Blue Jays dropped when they season finale to one to the White Sox. It was kind of the harbinger of old Blue Jays earlier in the season where they stranded a bunch of runners. I believe they were one for nine with runners in scoring position. They only managed to cross one across the plate. The Jays still win the series. The win streak comes to an end. And now they've got a final three game set.

They get to go to the Sut in Sacramento. So they get today off, they're in the Sut three game series in Sacramento against the A's to wrap up their schedule, try and tack on a few more wins as they go into the MLB All-Star break. The story of yesterday, and I was listening to a bunch of the Jays post-game audio, including the remarks from the manager, John Schneider,

was kind of a shrug. Like eventually you're gonna run into a very stall solid pitching performance on behalf of the Sox. And one where everything that was going right for you, the small ball, the bunting, the moving runners along, being advantageous when you've got runners in scoring position, eventually it'll just dry up.

Now the interesting thing here is gonna be in the second half of the season, the Jays have tried to park, talk about the red hot streak in the historical context, going back to 2015. Max Scherzer talked about it and saying like, I don't even care about the actual streak. The important thing to me is that we're playing, quote unquote, good baseball.

And by good baseball, he means not making running errors on the base pass, Vladimir Jr., being able to move runners along, manufacturing runs, that old cliche and having really good pitching. And those are the things that allowed them to rip off 10 consecutive victories. It's not always going to be the case. Sometimes you'll play good ball and the bounces won't go your way and you won't have one of those 10 game streaks, but they seem convinced that the style of their playing is sustainable. Like they don't shoot themselves in the foot like teams that we've seen in the past. They feel the ball pretty well.

The pitching has been solid and that's going to, you know, with 162 game season, that's the kind of stuff that keeps you around, right? You want to win series. You don't want to win. And I know it sounds crazy to say you don't want to win every single ball game, but the goal is to go into a series and emerge the victor in the series. And that's what Schneider said yesterday. Like, Hey, our wind street came to an end. That sucks. We left a bunch of runners on yesterday. That sucks, but we won the series. And that's what we want to try and do here.

So the J's got one more chance to do it with a three game series in Sacramento against the A's starting tomorrow. Okay we're gonna have Mark Kriegel on the show next and He's got a new book called baddest man the making of Mike Tyson and it's been very well reviewed so far and it tells the life story of Mike Tyson and I guess for some of the younger viewers, I wonder what their opinion or how they view Mike Tyson is because, for you and I, Halford,

Mike Tyson was on my hangover and he just fought Jake Paul and it was pretty sad to watch him. And he's almost become, I don't know how you, how you, he's like a, he's like a C-list celebrity now, or do you know what I mean? Like he kind of shows up here and there in things and it's, it's, it's almost done with a sense of irony, I would suppose. Like here's, here's Mike Tyson.

Like what the hell for a little while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that, that sort of thing. When you and I were growing up, this guy was, like the book says, the baddest man. And I remember his fights were events. Like they were, and not, and not like the, the whatever it was when he fought Jake Paul. I mean, that was an event, but that was, again, it seemed like

I was watching it with a sense of humor. Like I was of like look at all these look at this look at this okay this you know let's try something here okay it was a side show it was a side it was a side show that's the perfect thank you a dog you're contributing yes that's good in a positive way for a change yeah Elon you're okay this is the thought exercise I'm of the younger crowd. How old are you? I'm 26. Okay, so when Mike Tyson comes up in conversation with you and your peer group,

is he viewed as what, a sideshow, a curiosity? Does everyone understand the historical context? Do they care about the historical context? Tyson's an absolute monster. Everyone knows that. I mean, we've all seen the highlights. You know those nights where you go back and you had a couple beers to drink, you go back, you order a pizza and you watch some highlights of whatever you want. Maybe it's Tavon Austin.

It's every night of my life. Maybe you're putting on the Siddiens. You're just describing a daily event for Halford. Yeah. So I think Tyson's still in that conversation. Let's throw on some Tyson highlights and just kick back and watch what he was. So that's interesting because there still is a cultural currency and relevance with Tyson in whatever form that it takes, like sideshow or, you know, ironically funny or whatever. He's still at the forefront of everything. Because it's funny because when Jake Paul fought him, part of it was him saying like, this was at one point,

and that's the baddest man on the planet. Now, you got to understand is that for the old like Brough and I, there was an added element of where boxing stood in the cultural and sporting hierarchy. Being the heavyweight champion of the world, it wasn't quite when like Muhammad Ali was, but it still had a ton of cache and a ton of currency because when you were the heavyweight champion of the world, there was at that stage, you got to remember like UFC was not a thing.

Yeah. So in terms of beating people up and fighting and being tough, that was the bar. You were like that, you know, you were you'd have those those. Also, boxing still mattered back then. Yeah. But you'd have those covered really big. You'd have those conversations with, you were you'd have those those also boxing still mattered back then. Yeah, but you have those cover really big. You'd have those conversations with your friends where you'd be like, could you take so and so in a fight? Yeah. Now there's a lot of candidates to be so and so.

But back then there wasn't. Now it's Nick Tarnaski. Right. He's kind of the top of the bang. And you ask the answer is no. Now, you know, the interesting thing with Mark's book, who Mark Kriegel, who we're gonna talk to coming up, author of the new book, the Mike Tyson book that came out about a month and a half ago,

I've read a bunch of interviews and kind of brushed up on what we're gonna talk about. He talked about the level that Tyson got to that transcended sport. And he said, there's this great quote here from one of his interviews. He said, he's famous in a way that killed Michael Jackson, that killed Elvis Presley, that killed Marilyn Monroe.

And it's true. Mike Tyson, a lot of the things that made him famous kind of had nothing to do with boxing. And a lot of it was in a- He spent three years in prison for rape. Right, in a very infamous age. Married Robin Givens, who was a pretty big celebrity at the time and did not go well right and those were the things that moved him into that sort of

cultural currency the fact that he's around is part of the reason why the book is really intriguing because I mentioned all those celebrities in that brief blurb there. None of them are around to be the living focus of a biography. And Tyson's still working through it. We'll talk to Mark about this because the amount of things that Tyson survived throughout his life and the fact that he was even able to step in the ring, how old was he when he fought Paul? 56, 58 years old? The fact that he was able to to step in the ring, how old was he when he fought Paul?

56, 58 years old. The fact that he was able to do it is kind of a remarkable thing. It's a remarkable journey from an athlete that became a celebrity and known well beyond the boxing ring. So we're going to talk to Mark about that coming up in about six minutes time. All right. Get your questions or comments into the Dunbar Lumber text line at 650-650, Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rental warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve

you or online at dunbarlumber.com. You're listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Before we go to break, I need to tell you about Jan Pro from conference rooms to kitchenettes and everything in between. Jan Pro keeps work rooms to kitchenettes and everything in between Jan Pro keeps workplaces tidy clean and disinfected for a free quote visit them online at JanPro.ca 631 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday everybody.

Halford and Brough for the morning is brought to you by Sands and associates BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3000 five star reviews. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We're going to go now to the power West industries hotline. Our next guest is an author, a journalist and a television commentator, perhaps the finest boxing writer in America. He's the author of the new book, baddest man, the making of Mike Tyson, New York times bestselling author, Mark Kriegel here on the Haliford and Breast show on sports net six 50 morning, Mark. How are you?

Good morning gentlemen. Pretty good. Uh, thanks for taking the time to do this today. We appreciate it. So, um, for those listeners that might be unaware, you've done a variety of sports biographies throughout your writing career. You did the Joe Namath one, you did the Pete Maravich one, and now Mike Tyson, why at this time, why now a book on Mike Tyson? First I owed the publisher money. Unlike the other book, the other book, I, um, you know, I, I, I had an idea and I, it came to me, this, I resisted because I covered Tyson first as a, you know, as a young city

side reporter covering cops and courts and, um, when he was getting into trouble and, uh, later was a sports columnist and I didn't really care to revisit that. I started thinking about him differently, though. He was kind of the designated villain back when I was a newspaper man, at least for me. And I came to this idea that it's better to judge a guy by what he's survived than who he's knocked out. And Tyson was in a place I couldn't have anticipated.

I don't think he could have anticipated either, which is still alive, much less this odd place where he is right now, where he's kind of beloved. And I never anticipated that for him. And I don't think he anticipated ever reaching this age. So it's an attempt to understand him, to recast him, think about him in a new way.

So you, if I'm not mistaken, you covered his rape trial in Indianapolis in 97, correct? Correct, yeah, yeah. Could you ever have envisioned at that time that 30 years later, we'd be discussing and having Mike Tyson with the kind of cultural currency that he has right now? No, absolutely not.

I mean, it's not just the idea of being redeemed or not redeemed. I remember asking him in 2012 when he started doing his one man show, did you ever think he could be here? No, obviously not. But he never envisioned being alive that long. He was 45 then. He could have been dead of any number of things, at any number of junctures. The idea that we've come to love him, or at least our addiction to him, that's what's explained in this book why the stuff

that went into making Tyson it's not the best heavyweight but certainly the most lucrative the most extraordinary creation a guy that was still sort of addicted to who can draw like get a hundred and thirteen or eight million live stream whatever it is, with Jake Paul. That's one of one. Jake Paul could only have done those numbers with Tyson. This is trying to figure out all the ingredients that went into making that kind of special attraction.

Is there any concern about whitewashing his history? No. I mean, if you read the book, no. I'm not, I deal with his history. I've been dealing with his history. I've been dealing with him for, you know, probably close to 30 years now. I didn't mean it so much for you, but, you know, to repose the question, has his history been whitewashed to a certain degree? I don't think so. I mean, I think that even in his own accounting of things,

his own accounting of things, you know, his behavior was something less than stellar, and even his own autobiographies, and there are two volumes at this point, are pretty confessional. I mean, it's not like he doesn't take it easy on himself. He understands his problem with booze, with coke, with sex. He sort of eviscerates himself in his own recollection of his relationship with his mother. What he seems to insist on is his innocence of the rape. However you stand on that, he did do his time,

unlike a lot of other guys. What was his childhood like? Childhood was an absolute mess. You know, I mean, he was being groomed as another stick-up kid in New York and somebody like popped him when he was, you know, before he found boxing, no one would have cared. I mean, I make the point early in the book

that he was like the lyric out of it. He's like a lyric out of a Grandmaster Flash song His neighborhood Brownsville in Brooklyn Is you know, I guess usually described as a ghetto and to me when I actually went back and I covered Brownsville Fairly frequently when I was covering cops Like ghetto seems wholly insufficient. It's almost like a science fiction movie. It's a dystopia and it's block after block of abandoned buildings, abandoned children.

And then in the middle of this thing, you stick like the greatest concentration of housing projects outside of the Soviet Union into one couple of square miles. And it was a truly frightening place. It was ravaged by gangs, by horrible economics, by every sort of urban ill that you could have. And, you know, someone told me a kid who lived next door went on to be a pretty good basketball player. He says, like, listen, man, like, at least I had family. Because Mike's family was basically the street.

And I think that that's largely true. Yeah, you know, there was, his mother was broken, his father cut out. He was on the street and of the street from a very early age. We're speaking to Mark Kriegel here on the Haliford and Bref Show on Sportsnet 650, boxing writer, author of the new Mike Tyson biography.

So Mark, when you start writing a book on Mike Tyson, how do you go about it with Mike Tyson? Well, I didn't want his cooperation. I don't want to owe my sources like that. So it's a pretty fair record of what he said when because he's been so damn famous for so long. So we had a couple of video chats, each of them funny in their own way, but all I wanted from him was basically, don't try to shut me down. And he was more than accommodating with that, and I was really happy about it actually. We did talk about it, I probably wrote more

nasty things about Tyson than anyone living. I'd venture a fairly educated guest because I was a newspaper columnist during his worst year. And he was an easy target. Not an undeserved target, but an easy one. And we talked about this. And then I proposed something to him.

And my idea then was to write a kind of essay. I didn't want to write anything fully biographical. But I said, hey, your famous coach, Custamato, who got you out of jail as a kid, as a juvenile, I'm not sure he did you all favors. Because from the beginning, it wasn't about Mike becoming a champion or entering in the Golden Gloves or we'll get you out of prison and we'll get you like a high school

equivalency diploma. It was none of that. From the very beginning it was about we're going to make you the youngest, the most ferocious, the greatest champion of all time. And that's a pretty unforgiving standard for a 13-year-old kid who's come off the street and out of lock time. And that's a pretty unforgiving standard for a 13 year old kid who's come off the street and out of lock up. And then you take that kid and you put him under hypnosis and you tell him you're a scourge from God. Like, you know, what the hell did you think was going to happen? Now, when I said this to Tyson, he says, he pushes back on it. And

I understand he's defending the great custom auto his trainer and he said well I said you know cuss is asking you to make him live forever to make him immortal and he says well didn't die and I think he I think in fact he did the question is at what price there's a there's a place in the book where he spars with Lennox Lewis who had a wonderful coach in the amateurs and a somewhat parallel journey with Tyson, you know, I mean, Lennox didn't come from great circumstances. He was apart from his mother for years who left him. She, you know, she

was in Canada while she left him in Great Britain. There wasn't enough emotional trauma there. But when I had a really good coach, he just didn't want to be go down in boxing history. He wasn't front and center. I think that Tyson's relationship with custom model is based on immortality. And they'll both be immortal. My book poses the question, you know, that immortality came at what price?

Did you ever come to, or did Mike ever come to an answer to that question? No, he said, of course, as long as people know my name, they'll know his. I think that immortality was in fact the goal. What I think is like a Faustian bargain. that immortality was in fact the goal. You know, what I think is like a Faustian bargain, Tyson considers an accomplishment, but the process of making him immortal in that way,

I think took a toll. You know, and I think that, I mean, look, they're different guys, but Lennox Lewis wasn't, you know, he had enormous potential. I mean, Spar together was, I guess, his 17-year-olds before they go into Olympic training. And Tyson has his way the first day, and each subsequent day Lewis catches up because he refuses to be bullied and he gains his composure and Cust turns to Mike and said, don't mess around.

One day you're going to fight him. And I think that DeMato always thought of Tyson as fighting the very best and Tyson himself. of Tyson is fighting the very best. And Tyson himself, Tyson used to watch film of all sorts of fighters, but Sonny Liston in particular, one day a guy watches him watching the film of Sonny Liston and Tyson, who is now, I guess 17, 18 years old, 17 years old, 18, there about, begins to weep watching this old black and white film.

And he says, Mike, are you crying? Well, yeah. Why are you crying? He goes, well, I can never beat him. And he means Sonny Liston. And what do you mean you never beat him? She's dead, you're alive. What the hell's going on?

You know, you can't beat Sonny Liston. You're never gonna fight him. He goes, oh, no, no, no, no. I fight him all the time. And he points to his temple is hey, he was in here. Which means to me, I mean, to this point about immortality, like DeMando has in doing, has in fighting ghosts and immortals. How do you ever win that?

You know, it's, it's a fascinating anecdote because it also speaks to the relevance and where boxing was in terms of the cultural hierarchy and the sports hierarchy. Because at one point being the heavyweight champion of the world was, you're probably the most famous athlete and you're one of the most famous people, period, on the planet. And that's why there's probably, and I can almost say this definitively, there's never going to be another Mike Tyson in part because of where boxing is at in the current landscape. How much of the Tyson story has to do with the sport that he participated in at

one point being the, the glamour sport in America to kind of where it is right now. Oh, I don't understand what's good question. Uh, how much of the Tyson story and his arc has to do with the fact that where boxing was when he started to where boxing is now? Oh, that were long. Well, look, I think that even when he came up, he was billed as a modern day Dempsey.

It's a very particular way that he was being sold. You know with the Dempsey haircut, no socks, no robe, everything was supposed to be sparring. Even when Tyson came up, he was built as a throwback fighter. And there's very little in the sport of boxing that's more potent than nostalgia. And no matter where you are in the history of the sport, it's always like you're appealing to the guy that your father rooted for, your grandfather rooted for. So even though boxing was still,

I mean, I say this advisedly, a relatively healthy sport, he was still billed as a throwback back then. I think your larger point though is right. Boxing's in such a state of few people know who the heavyweight champa heavyweight champions are it any given moment and the last truly

internationally famous instantly recognizable heavyweight champion was typhoon and in some ways i i don't know boxing got over typhoon uh... i think it runs deeper than that. I think your point about boxing itself is well taken, but there was something unique in the building of Tyson and the ferocity and the way he knocked people out on his way up on his way to that first title, um, on the way to the sphinx fights, which it was really it was the introduction of video in the 80s.

Knockout, you couldn't see knockouts that way prior and his knockouts were so destructive and so theatrical you go, holy, you know what? Wait, I got to see that again and they said, you know, the new technology was video cassette. they sent VCR tapes around the country every sports editor news director and guys and guys would play it and and the knockouts themselves were eye candy but then when you combine it with that voice you know you stick a microphone in front of the station you hear that voice and you go wait hold it that's the high pitched kind of squeaky voice you're wait hold it that's the high-pitched kind of squeaky voice you're trying to reconcile that with the destruction this guy has just

caused and then on top of it he says someone the most crazy stuff you'll ever hear and all that conspires to make him I think that all that conspires in large measure to what we have today is a culture that can't forget about it. And I also think like you know the Robin Given stuff, the infamy with the rape trial, what was going on in the street, all the craziness becomes its own story and I think that many people were attracted to him or his story, not despite the insanity, but because of it. I think my argument is that's where tabloid culture begins with Tyson. Who was the most interesting non-Mike Tyson character to write about?

You think about all the interesting ones in his life including a guy like Don King. Oh, King was fascinating. I mean who are the most interesting ancillary characters? Yeah. King is fascinating. King is without question the most devious and more than that, the smartest guy in the whole damn book. And there's some pretty smart people and pretty devious people that run across Tyson, but Don is, you know,

Don is two, three, four, five steps ahead of everyone. He knows, he knows why he's going to get Mike, he knows how he's going to get Mike and you know he shifts along the way. First he's allied with Robin Gibbons and her mother against Bill Katen who was Tyson's surviving manager. Then when they get rid of Katen he's in with Mike against the women. And he fends off all sorts of challenges and never loses Mike. I mean I to Katen, he's in with Mike against the women, you know. And he fends off all sorts of challenges and never loses Mike.

I mean, I think that there's something there. Mike writes in his own book, it was a question of who his father is. And is it a guy who's like a cab driver in the neighborhood or is it the guy who's passing himself off as like the local pimp? And Mike writes, I so much wanted my father to be the pimp. And what he means by that is he wanted the guy who was like, you know, a little bit of a gangster who had standing

in a place, a street standing in a place like Brownsville. And I think that in a certain way, in a certain way, King, almost like was telling him, Luke, I am your father. I'm the father you want. Does boxing have a promoter like Don King anymore? And is that maybe related to the fact that it's not as popular? Because I think about a guy like Dana White and what he does for UFC, you need a promoter. You need a guy that can sell the storylines, whether they're disingenuous storylines or

not. Right. No, it's a unique construct. Um, the two great boxing promoters of my lifetime were King and Bob Arum. They're both whatever they both won 1931. So that 93, 94 and they were 19 they're 94. So, um, and the PVC doesn't have a promoter the one of one of the promotions Eddie Hearn is a pretty good promoter he's UK based

but you in the fight construct whether it's MMA or MMA or wrestling with Vince McMahon is a great example whatever you think of Vince McMahon the construct itself calls for a guy in the center going you know the Barker writ large like come one come all come on come into this tent what you're gonna see is unbelievable and that is is unique to to fight sports and I don't disagree I don't disagree with what you said that you know you may hate promoters and I may all be horrible devious people but when the sports functioning properly, the promoter is front and center. Um, and it's a tough job. The book is baddest man. The making of Mike Tyson.

The author is Mark Kriegel. Mark, this was fantastic, man. Thank you for taking the time to do this this morning. We really appreciate it. We both look very much forward to reading the book in full. Thanks for breaking it down for us and our listeners today. This was great. My pleasure, fellas. Thank you very much. Thanks, Marc. Yeah, thank you. That's Marc Kriegel, author, journalist, and television commentator, and also the author

of the new book, Baddest Man, the Making of Mike Tyson. Lots to unpack there. Yeah. I like talking about promoters just because they're often not the greatest people in terms of their morals and their ethics and they take advantage of people, but helps the sport sometimes. My, what we learned is Don King's still alive. He's 93. I didn't know that. I mean, he-

Crazy. Yeah. And he played such a huge role in boxing. Of course. Back to Ali and- He was more recognizable than a lot of the fighters. But when you think about a promoter, you know, I think about, well, Trump was a promoter and Trump's in this book.

I mean, Trump hosted the Spinks fight. Yes. In Atlantic city and that's what he's good at. You know, he creates the us versus them or who you want to cheer for kind of side, and he'll say the most wild stuff. You know who else is a modern day promoter? Dave Portnoy at Barstool. He's a promoter. Dana White. Those guys, the ones, and people can text me and be like, oh, I hate that guy or I love that guy. And you're like, yep, that's the point.

Yeah, that's the whole point. Well, I would I would encourage everyone to I mean, it's a long multi-part series, the Netflix documentary on McMahon and it meant it dives into the cultural history of America and the role that the Carnival Barker has played throughout time. Yep. And this is the thing when you're talking about like the fabric of a nation to consistently

have the promoter be like a consistent theme right till today, you don't get a lot of that. Like boxing itself has gone through peaks and valleys and into the valley where it's kind of irrelevant right now. But the guy standing in the middle, and you know, Mark put it perfectly, he's like, come see what's under this tent. I'm gonna show you something you haven't seen before. And oftentimes it aligns itself with hand to hand combat.

Because there is something both primal and always interesting in watching someone beat up somebody else. Why do you think we keep watching those golf course fight videos? OK, check this out. Watch the beating this guy's about to. We should start. We should start a circuit.

We could be the promoters. Oh, my God. Golf course fights with Alfred and Brav. Well, it'd be the next step up from bum fight. It was right there. Yeah, it's all in front of us. Yeah. But to do that, you have to have like at a certain point, any sort of morals or moral stipulations

they have go out the window because what happens is the draw has to become more salacious, at times more controversial. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, but then you go down the sliding scale and eventually you're just the Jerry Springer show, right? Or you're just, what are we gonna do next for shock value?

Yeah. And that's part of the carnival barker thing, but to have Tyson survive all of it and still be able to tell the story at the end of it, I think was really interesting. And Mark was a fantastic guest. That was good. Listeners seem to enjoy it as well Jason Brough golf course

fight promoter for living I'm a fight promoter yeah golf courses yes specifically yeah two carts two beers two men enter one man leaves it like I would have I would I would have a guy that's like a slow player yeah you know like takes forever to hit a shot I'd like, do you want to see this guy get beat up? And everyone would be like, yeah. Okay, before we go to the, the, the, the, the, the, the cart girl would be like that. That'd be the, you know, that'd be the, the ring girl.

The ring girl. Yeah. We may have stumbled onto something. I know. I think you guys are onto something. It's early in the morning, but I feel like we've got great ideas right now. It's just me.

Okay. Before we go to break, I need to tell you about the BC Lions biggest the ring card girl is the drink card girl It's the biggest rivalry party of the year Lions Rough Riders Saturday, July 19th at 4 p.m With the watermelon smash on Terry Fox Plaza get your tickets now at BC Lions comm you're listening to the health and rough show on sports net 650