Halford & Brough in the Morning - Could The Canucks Lose Boeser For Nothing?

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason discuss what the Canucks might do with Brock Boeser (3:00) as well as their odds of making the playoffs (11:00), plus they chat with Sportsnet Calgary's Eric Francis (26:47), as the Flames and the Canucks duke it out in the standings for the final wild card spot. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Here's a beauty. 702 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for

sales financing service or parts a very down-tempo groove here Digging it getting you into a Monday That's how everyone's feeling right little completely little compare and contrast in the intro there. I Believe it's 12 points, six goals, six assists in 10 games for JT Miller since the trade. Yeah, that was the goal he set up. It went Miller to Miller. Kandre Miller scored, but JT also scored himself yesterday. Yeah. They've got all the Millers. We've got all the Pettersons. Can I get this straight? I couldn't comment when you're talking to Kipper because I was cutting audio.

So is there a scenario. And also have been rude to interrupt. Yeah, well, obviously I'm not going to. Hey, excuse me guys, sorry to interrupt your conversation. Um, is there a scenario where the Knucks don't resign Brock Besser and lose them for nothing, all in order to just make the playoffs, play a couple home games, only to get swept in the playoffs?

Or miss the playoffs. Yes. Even worse, miss the playoffs. Does that not seem like a bad idea? Should they not try and get something for him? See, we're back to this. I mean, Kemper's clearly saying something, right? It's the exact same thing I was saying in the first hour from what I've heard, making

the playoffs is important. Just got to- So just getting swept in the first round and then losing best for nothing is important. Yep. You got to get on that train, bro. I don't know man. I just don't. I mean, how does that help? How does a couple game rep?

I know playoff revenue is important. I get that. No, no, no, no. Don't don't don't just sweep it aside. I know it is like, but I know that's what it's that's what it is. I know. But how does that help the long term health of the team? If you lose best for nothing. Hey, man, we're back at this. I'm saying we're back at this, aren't we? Like this whole, you know, what we were talking

about earlier in the show, it's like those years where they missed the playoffs, everyone has now since called that, that was the rebuild, right? They were trying to make the playoffs. I know. That's why Louis Erickson got signed. That's why Brandon Sutter got acquired, you know, like Tyler Myers signed, Ryan Miller in goal.

They didn't want to fall off that badly. So I actually have this argument with Drantz a lot. I'm like, Drantz, you can sit there and go on your show and say that the Canucks should do this aggressive rebuild until you are blue in the face, but they are not listening to you. They're not going to change their ways. And it doesn't really matter what we think. They are going to do what they do. But this isn't a betting regime. Like I have some faith in Alvin and Rutherford. Do they not see losing Besser for nothing

as being bad at some management? Well, OK, hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm not saying they'll get something. Who owns the team? Hold on, hold on, hold on. I know. I get that. I'm not saying it.

And I'm not even saying they're going to get something crazy in return for Besser. But if you could at least get something for him, as opposed to nothing at all, just so you could maybe squeak into the playoffs, I don't know, that just doesn't make sense to me. Again, we're stacking hypotheticals on hypotheticals. First off, the trade deadline's not until Friday. They could very well move them in the next four days.

Well, I hope they do. I mean, I would like to see them stay. I don't think they'll do that. I think what they're going to do, if I were to bet right now, and I could easily be wrong, I think they're going to move better, but also add another forward. I mean, I hope you're right with that. Actually, I'll go even a step further. They're going to move better but also add another forward. I mean I hope you're right with that. Actually I'll go even a step further. They're gonna move faster. The assets they're gonna get in return

are gonna be sent to Pittsburgh in exchange for Ricard Raquel. Yeah I can see that. I'm not joking. I know you're not. Ricard Raquel has three years left on his deal. So it helps you in the immediate because he is having a very good year offensive.

He is but he's also 31. Yeah but that. I like Raquel, I'm not saying he's a bad player. But it would answer your question, because you're like, what are you doing for the future of this team? Well, you do get a guy that's under contract for three more years.

It ticks that box. Say what you will about being 31 and maybe not being that fast and maybe not getting any younger or- Probably faster than Besser. Raquel is a fine player. I would be fine with getting him in the immediate. So there you go.

I was actually wondering if, because the Pens played Sunday, they play yesterday and Raquel actually had a pretty good game. Yeah. Um, and I was like, maybe that's what they're waiting for. When you come to that point, a lot of people I know are texting in about Alex Tuck.

Yep. There's another one. I can see that too. I don't, I don't, I'm not sure about that, but like, I think they're going to try and upgrade the forward group. Yeah. I really do.

Um, the only thing in the back of my mind is maybe something changed over the weekend with not only that performance in Seattle, but the Quinn Hughes injury and his health status is massive. Even they might wave the white flag if Quinn Hughes, if they're looking at this guy and being like, he's going to be out for a couple of weeks. Now, for now they're saying it's day to day.

But again, until this team starts acting in a different way, you know, we can complain until we're blue in the face about it and we can talk about it. Certainly we can talk about it. Is this the right thing? I mean, you go back to the JT Miller trade. When JT Miller was acquired by the Canucks,

nobody doubted that he was a good player. I don't think anyone predicted that he would get to the levels that he was with the Canucks. Nobody doubted that he was a good player. I don't think anyone predicted that he would get to the levels that he was with the Canucks. And he got, he got to an incredible level, but the question always was to what end? Which means to, you know, it means to what end? What is the ultimate goal? What did JT Miller in his,

as an individual, very successful time in Vancouver, what did the team accomplish? They get to the second round game seven of the playoffs. Which actually isn't bad. I mean, well, and they get the, but do we count the bubble? We're not counting the bubble, right? I don't count the bubble. No. But, but do you know what I mean? Like that was the whole question. And, and like, this is what, even though JT Miller played really well and he did actually return them

some assets ultimately. So that also goes on his ledger. But the whole thing was like the, the reason people were upset when that trade went, went through was not, it wasn't about JT Miller. Everyone knew he was a good player. It was just like, what do we do in here guys? Yeah, they were trying.

Shouldn't we arm ourselves for the future? And it pains me to say that we're back to this point with this team. You got to remember like the return on the Miller trade from the perspective of, are we getting into the playoffs and are we going anywhere in them? Like actually, given that they haven't had any

playoff success since 2011, actually wasn't a bad return. They made a couple of playoff appearances under the Miller era and they got to game seven of the second round. That's about as far as they've gone in the last decade. But they've never been true Stanley Cup contenders. No, but that was not that you are you defending the trade? The Miller trade originally. Yeah

From the what did they accomplish as a team from the perspective of where they're gonna marshal all your assets in one direction From the perspective if we're going on the perspective of we are looking it through the lens of ownership and management and what they want to Accomplish. Okay, they're probably fine with what they got out of it. Sure. And now he's gone. We sold a bunch of jerseys. Seriously. Right?

I mean, they, and they, they got as far as in the playoffs as they had in a decade. Increased interest in the team. But no, but, but again, like, you know, sometimes I feel like there's different conversations happening. There is very many different conversations happening. It's do you resign yourself to what the decision makers are doing and just say, well, we got to follow this.

Or do you vehemently push back like kind of what you were looking to a Drance against the core essence of it. I don't think me telling Drance like, Hey man, you can talk about this until you're blue in the face is me agreeing with it and supporting it. It's just like. Well, it's the same thing as the Petterson discourse. Do you come in every day and bang your fist about how this is unacceptable or do you resign?

You just resign to the fact that this is the reality of the situation. Yeah, it's all sort of the same. And just try and have some laughs along the way. And I'm going back to what I was saying, like don't get me wrong, like if the Canucks were like playing like they were last year and they looked like they were a cup contender,

I'd be fine with them treating Besser like a rental if they were a competitive playoff team. But they just don't look like they will be. So like, I just, I hope, I hope, I hope that if they move him, or that if, that he does get moved, because I think it's gonna happen, that they get something for him,

they don't let him walk for nothing. Look, you can't lose that asset for nothing. If past history is an indicator of future behavior, then they would almost be bound to move better as opposed to let them walk as a free agent because they've been very steadfast and they've delivered on their promises about not letting assets walk without anything in return.

That's fair to say, right? Like of all the criticisms you can have of management, they said from day one, like we are not that group that uses those stupid lines like he's our own rental or we'll wait and see until July 1. Like they move guys. I also don't think they're very impressed with him right now.

Well, there's that too. You know, like I think they see him as, for this season at least, part of the problem. Sure. So I expect he's going to be traded. Likewise. I could be wrong, but my expectation is that he's going to be traded, but at the same time, people asked on social media, are they going to be buyers or sellers?

I was like, I think they're going to be both. But we'll have to wait and see on this. Okay. Here's another question for you. Uh, as we actually focus on the day to day of the team and the fact that the regular season still has 20 games left and the Canucks are very, very much, despite what happened on this recent road trip, very much in the post season mix are the Canucks as of right now,

March 3rd, 2025 tied on 65 points with Calgary, but on the outside of the playoff picture, are the Canucks right now more likely to make or miss the playoffs? If you had to pick one right now, what would you pick? Miss. Even though they play seven of their next eight

at the. Yeah, they stink at home. The gauntlet in the Rockshurst Arena. The toughest building in the NHL to play in. I think they're going to miss. There's three teams that are pretty close to them right now, Calgary, St. Louis and Utah. I think you could easily make the case that the

Canucks are in the worst way out of those four teams. Look at Pedersen, look at Quinn Hughes being hurt and he's clearly hurt and his play has fallen off a little bit. Thatcher Dempko, we don't know about him. Archer's Sealofs is a total wild card and I don't think you can trust him in goal. So are you going to just run Kevin Lankinen through all these games?

Well, that risks him. So yeah, I think they're most likely to miss at this point, even though Dom's model at the athletic predicts that the Canucks still have like a 60% chance of making the playoffs. Money Pucks got them ahead of, to be the most likely to make that second and final wild card spot, barely ahead.

What's their percentage though? 38.7. Yeah, so that's if you're asking make or miss, that's suggesting they're gonna miss because there's three other in the field. Right, St. Louis is at 28, Calgary's at 24, Utah's at 22. Sorry, did you say dom's model?

No, Jason said dom's model. Well, you have to say it the way your answer is like, per dom's model. Per dom's model. Per dom's model at the athletic. I never wanna hear dom's model. Actually, now that I think, I don't even like it. I don't even like models anymore because of that.

The words have lost all meaning to me. Yeah, it's just totally irrelevant. I hate models, all of them. So with the, by the way, my answer is I do think they're gonna get in because it would be the most Canuck thing on earth to go on this improbable, not run, but do just enough to get in. So Money Park has them at the top of the teams most likely to get in?

And barely. Percentage points ahead. You know why? It's going to be like just a mid-off. It is. Bottom 14. And you know why? All played terribly. Because I have not been able to accurately predict a single thing

with this team all year. You know who else hasn't? The head coach, Rick Tocket. If we go back to those games, the last two games of that road trip, that team has shown, now it's not even the game to game inability to put together consecutive performances that look good, it's period to period.

I was watching the game against Seattle and after surrendering the first goal, which by the way, it was a pretty nice play by your boy, Shane Wright. That was very nice. He showed some real burst on that. And nice hands. Like it was silky, it was a silky little pass.

Not a great play by Quinn Hughes. No, but he's hurt. Um, so they go in, they allow that first goal. They come back, they score twice. They're up two one. They outshoot, um, I'd say in a fair, by a fairly good margin, they outshoot Seattle in the first period.

So they go into the intermission and they throw to the panel and Freage is talking about how that was a really great first period from the Canucks. It was. Because of what they did against Utah or sorry, was it Utah? I don't even remember. Oh, Anaheim, sorry. It was because of the second and third periods against Anaheim where they completely collapsed and gave up five unanswered goals. Biaxa and Gazdek are saying the same thing. Like, yeah, it's a good response from the Canucks. Then you get periods two and three against Seattle,

which again, in no way kind of reflect what they were doing in the first. I know there was some puck luck involved. And I follow Drance on Twitter too. All right, I know that there was a lot of crazy things that happened. But you can't tell me that you're gonna wash away what happened on Saturday to Puck Luck

allowing four unanswered goals. When the previous game against another lousy team in the West in Anaheim, you gave up a bunch of unanswered goals as well. It feels like this team, the moment that they get smacked with any sort of adversity, they have no answers on how to pull themselves out of it. And that when the good times are going,

they have no idea how to extend them. It's like they are the most fragile, they're fragile Frankie Mermans, all of them. And the moment that things go bad, they don't have. They dig a hole and sit in the park. And they're just sitting there, they're like, the game will be over soon. I'm just gonna sit here till the game is over.

That's it, right? I gotta get to the park. No, Frankie. But it does sort of, kind of in a weird way, explain why they don't have the ability to keep any of the good times going, any of the positive momentum going. It's almost like they don't know how to sustain the good and they don't know how to reverse the bad.

It's a very- That seems pretty problematic. It's hugely problematic. So the problem is we have trouble when things are good and Horrible trouble when things are bad. It's it's unbelievable Honestly, and I can understand why talk it at certain points is like I don't know man I'm telling them what to do So this team will be a cup contender once they start figuring out how to keep the good times going

But also how to dealing with the bad bad times, the bad times from getting worse. And once they do that, and I somehow, I think, somehow despite all of this, I still think they're going to get in as the second wild card. Could there be like a team psychology retreat retreat or something where they all get like hypnotized group hypnosis? I mean, I mean, ravine is that as old, is that the old guy? Um, so one thing I wanted to get into was seven

of the next eight at home. They go Anaheim, Minnesota, Dallas, Montreal, quick trip to Calgary, Chicago, Utah, Winnipeg. And that takes us through March 18th. Only one game left before the trade deadline on Friday, March 7th. They also host Minnesota later that night. If this team continues to flounder and you know

who continues to struggle, what is the atmosphere going to be like at Rogers Arena? Rough, rough, not bruff, rough. Like nasty. I think there's a large segment of the fans that are exasperated and I think that's a large segment of the fans that are exasperated. And I think that all of the frustrations and exasperations from the fan base are totally justified. Not just because the on ice product. Let's make this abundantly clear.

It's not just because it's not just the wins and losses thing. I think that there's still a residual hangover where people just had a bad taste in their mouth from Pedersen and Miller. Really bad taste in their mouth, yeah. No one, no one looked at that situation and was like, you know what, I side with the players on this one. Almost everybody, to a man, woman, whatever, said the same thing.

It feels like two guys that, you know, are putting their own self-interest and beef between one another ahead of the team, and it's petty and it's selfish, and it's destructive to the team, and it's not an endearing quality when you're trying to win over a fan base. If you're winning hockey games, it's great,

but when you're losing, you lose a lot of cache with the fans when you're coming across as like, petulant babies, right? I think, you lose a lot of cash with the fans when you're coming across as like petulant babies, right? I think there's still a lot of that around because the Canucks' solution to this was trade the guy that the fans liked more. And watch him go play well for the Rangers. You know?

And watch the other guy play even worse. That dynamic was already, it was, I mean, I don't even wanna say simmering, it was boiling over. Yeah. And then the Canucks thought they might've, you know, turned down the temperature a little bit. Well, it's right back up. I mean, you can't go left or right on social

media right now without seeing some sort of comp between what Miller's doing in New York and what Pedersen's doing in Vancouver. We traded the wrong guy. I've read that hundreds of times. All right, let's go ahead and dip into the Dunbar Lumber text line here, 650, 650, unsigned text.

Do you think the Canucks could make a package around Brock Besser, send him to Florida to get Sam Bennett? The Panthers are not trading Sam Bennett. No. Come on. Why would the Panthers trade Bennett? Because he's an unrestricted creation. Yeah, like there's a difference.

There's a team that could justifiably be like, he's our own rental. Yeah. And like if we lose them, so what? I mean, remember, they went last year with Montour unsigned all the way through the postseason, all the way to the Stanley Cup, fully cognizant of the fact that they were going to lose them. I still think they're going to try and keep Sam Bennett. I just don't know if they're going to be able to. I'm a little curious what they're going to do with Eklad.

He's pending UFA too, right? Yeah. That's an UFA too, right? Yeah. That's an interesting one because- Now that they got Seth Jones. Right. You'd think that there would be a mutual understanding that Echblad would, I don't know, maybe take some sort of hometown discount to stick around because it's been the only team he's ever known and he's led them to great heights. There's very few guys that have more history with the Florida Panthers than him. They have a lot of guys locked up long-term

and not in a bad way, like in a way where I'm kind of jealous of what they've got moving forward. Well, they got Seth Jones now locked up and they've got Gustav Forsling locked up to a really good contract. Guys under contract for the next three seasons or more, Barkov, Kachuk, Reinhart, Lundell, Verhagy, Forsling, Jones.

That's a good group. Like you'll ride with them for the next three years, no problem. And then if you could fill in around the edges, like here's the thing, I love Bennett. I loved what he did for Canada. Um, I thought he was a fantastic player at the four nations.

I do think on a team like Florida, he's sort of replaceable. Like you could find a reasonable, you could find a reasonable facsimile of him. Cause those are the guys that you're locked in on. I don't think, how can you find a reason, reasonable facsimile of a big top six center that plays like nails in the playoffs.

Cause he's, um, behind a lot of guys there still. Like he's not one of their top four forward. I would still put Barkov, Kachuk, Reinhart and Verhagy is more important forwards than him on that team. Yeah. Right. So he of their top four forward. I would still put Barkov, Kachuk, Reinhardt, and Verhege is more important forwards than him on that team. Yeah. Right? So he's their fifth best forward. Like, could you find a fifth best forward?

No, they might lose them. They might lose them. I just don't think you need to say like, oh, they'll find a replacement for them. I think you can just say, yeah, wow, that'll be a big loss for them. How many times have we seen really good teams get chipped away by the salary cap? Let me rephrase it. I think they might have to find a reasonable- Try their best. I mean, how many times have we seen really good teams get chipped away by the salary cap? Let me rephrase it. I think they might have to find a reasonable tax.

Try their best. Yeah, to find it, because I don't know if they're going to be able to afford it. If I was in free agency right now, I'd be taking a good, long, hard look at Sam Bennett. Maybe the Vancouver Canucks will do it come July 1. I'm not too sure. Okay, we got a couple of minutes here.

I did want to swing through some of these other stories from the weekend in the national hockey league. We mentioned JT Miller stays hot. They got it. I think JT Miller might drag this team, this New York Rangers team into that second wild card in the East. They got a big win over the weekend, Sunday, four, nothing over the preds. The preds are terrible by the way, just an awful, awful team. Steve Stamkos having an awful year in Nashville, but Miller's got six goals and six assists, 12 points in 10 games.

By the way, in case you're wondering, Pedersen's zero goals, three assists, three points in 10 games. New Jersey, the Hughes brothers did not have a good weekend. Quinn Hughes got hurt, which is not as severe as what the injury looks like for his brother, Jack Hughes. If you missed it yesterday, they were in the second of a back-to-back. They played in Utah on Saturday where Luke Hughes got hurt but came back.

On Sunday, a two-nothing loss in Vegas, Jack Hughes got tangled up with Jack Eichel, who was on a back check, and crashed really hard into the New Jersey end boards. He was basically just dangling his right arm when he got up. Did you see it? You saw the hit, right? Yeah, I mean, Eichel didn't mean to do it. He was just coming back hard on the back boards. He was basically like just dangling his right arm when he got up. Did you see it? Did you see, you saw the hit? Yeah. I mean, I call, didn't mean to do it. He was just coming back hard on the back check and it, but it wasn't, it was an awkward collision.

So Sheldon Keefe went nuts and got tossed out of the game for it. And he explained afterwards that he didn't think it was intent to injure from Eichel on Hughes. It was that Hughes got penalized for something similar early in the game if you watch the replay I don't think I've the f-bombs per 60 that Sheldon Keefe unleashed on the officials in that one was at an all-time high Like he broke analytics for that. He went nuts apparently after the game Luke Hughes was incredibly emotional in the devil's room Because I guess the injury that his brother suffered was pretty significant. Like, they haven't said exactly what it is yet.

Freage was reporting that they're gonna wait for imaging to get an official diagnosis. Yes, Greg? Did this not happen to him last year? The exact same thing where he went hard and popped his shoulder out? Is that not hallucinating here? Did that happen already?

I don't know if this is his shoulder. It might be like a busted collarbone or something like that. But it sounds like it's pretty severe. It could sign light him for a while. Reports out of New Jersey said that they actually got the reporters out of the room and then kind of gave Luke Hughes some privacy so maybe he knew how severe the injury was.

That's a huge blow for New Jersey as they try and get, this has been a bounce back season for them trying to get back at the West. They've had so many injury concerns over the last two years too. Yeah. I mean, and Hughes is a diminutive guy. Yeah. Not unlike his brother, right? And he's had his fair share of injuries. I think anyone could have been injured on that play.

For sure. How hard he went into the boards. It was just, yeah, that was unfortunate. Yeah. Other injury news real quick. We mentioned Brad Marshawn earlier in the show. So he got hurt over the weekend and then missed Boston's one, nothing loss yesterday. Uh, no clear signs if he's going to come back again. They're very vague with updates there as well, but if he's hurt, that could be it for Boston.

Least put Chris Tanev on IR. We mentioned it last week that he got hurt in a game and his upper body injury looked like he was dragging the shoulder as well. So he's on injured reserve for the time being. They got a win over Pittsburgh yesterday. So there's a lot going on. There was also a couple trades

as we lead into the March 7th, Friday deadline. Gustav Nyquist traded to Minnesota and Charlie, or sorry, Charlie Lindgren, Ryan Lindgren, and Jimmy Vesey are on their way to Colorado. So a couple teams beefing up there in the West as we get closer to the March 7th trade deadline. We got a lot more to get into on the program. Coming up on the other side of the break,

we're gonna dip in to Calgary. We're gonna talk to Eric Francis from Sportsnet about what the Flames may or may not do going into Friday's deadline. They're in a tough way right now. They're not scoring a lot of goals, but they managed to get a single point over the weekend, and that put them ahead of the Vancouver Canucks for the second and final wild card spot in the West.

So Eric Francis is going to join us next. And before we go to break, I need to tell you about Denny's true North taste awaits with Denny's new burger made with shredded iceberg lettuce. The kids are calling it shredders. Yo, can I get some extra shreddis with that? It all comes on a brioche bun and all the classic ingredients you love. Visit them today at Denny's.

You're listening to the Alfred and Bruv Show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd. And Thomas Strance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to two on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. And now Jarvis, a backhand, Wolf, flat on his face, throws up his leg and makes a game-saving stop. 7.33 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sports9 650.

A little Dustin Wolf love from you there, Lanny. A little goalie love. He's got the collar. I don't want to say locked up, but pretty close. He played very well on the weekend. Yeah. You are listening to the Halford and Brough show. He's locked up, but pretty close. He played very well on the weekend. Yeah. You are listening to the Helfer and Bref Show. He's a problem, by the way. He is. You are listening to the Helfer and Bref Show

on Sportsnet 650. Helfer and Bref of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour two of the program.

Eric Francis from Sportsnet in Calgary is going to join us in just a moment here to highlight hour two. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominuk at Jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at Jason.mortgage. To the phone lines we go, Eric Francis from Sportsnet in Calgary joins us now on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650.

Good morning, Eric. How are you? I'm excellent. How are you boys? We're good. We're very good. Thanks for taking the time to do this. So I was reading your latest piece up at Sportsnet.ca on the Calgary Flames and you pointed out that this game that they played in Carolina on the weekend, they got one shot in the first period.

They have one goal in their last nine periods. They got the point in rallying. It's funny because like for over here in Vancouver, we got a Canucks team that's struggling to score and it's frustrating and there's a lot of angst in the fan base. Calgary, they're struggling to score as well, but as you pointed out, it's kind of almost admirable how they were able to scratch and claw just to get that one point. So even though the offense isn't that great, there's still something admirable about this team. Is that a fair assessment of how this entire year has been for the Calgary Flames? 100% like I don't even think I realized it until two days ago.

I decided to look and see where they ranked. Look, offense has been a problem all year long and I think everybody knew it would be a problem all year long. But I looked the other day and as of last night, Calgary Flames have only two goals more than Nashville who sit last in the league in goals four. So they're the second lowest scoring team in the National Hockey League, yet they're tied for the last playoff spot in the west, albeit a turtle race. It's still pretty impressive and it does speak volumes of the goal tending, the defensive style they've played that they knew they've had to play. And I guess you're right,

the character, like to hang in there last night after a first period. Look, they just played their worst game of the year in Florida the other day. Their goalie was incredible. D'Ambladar was incredible. 39 saves to keep the game to just three-nothing loss. It could have been eight or nine-nothing. And then they come into Carolina to get one shot on goal in the first period, like humiliating. And yet they find a way to still get a point in that game and they almost won it in overtime. So it's all smoke and mirrors. I'm not really sure how they're doing it on a lot of nights, but that's kind of the recipe they've had. Goaltending, heart, and a defensive style that's somehow keeping them in this.

What are their plans at the deadline? They want to pick up a, they've struggled all year to find a defenceman on the left side with Mackenzie Weger on that second pairing. So they'd like a top four defenceman. That's a pretty big ask and they're not willing to give up much in terms of futures for that player. And they're also looking for a depth centreman, but they've been looking for senators ever since they lost Lindholm a year ago. So, you know, they would be minor moves and every move they insist would be

only with an eye on a young player age 23 to 25, who they would control past this year. There is a chance they'd go out and maybe get a rental, but only if it was like for a sixth or seventh round draft pick. But otherwise, that's the problem, or that's the issue the Flames have tried to deal with all year and I guess they deserve some credit. They're one foot in, one foot out. It's a retool, not a a rebuild but the goal is to make the

playoffs every year. So every move is not made just with the future in mind. It's made with both the future and this season in mind. It's a tough tough thing to straddle for the GM. Are they gonna sell at all? No they're not gonna sell. Definitely won't sell and and it's not like they have a lot of pieces that a lot of teams would want to buy anyway if they were for sale. But you know, the big guys, Mackenzie Weger, Rasmus Anderson, Nazem Qadri, they've made it very clear those guys aren't going anywhere. They're the core of this team right now. So if you're trying to make a playoffs, it's and look, they recently made that trade for Frost and Farabee

to try and reward these guys for having a season that nobody saw coming. You can't at the deadline now take away from this team and send that message to them, you know, thanks for a great effort, but three days short of this deadline, we don't believe in you anymore. So no, they won't be selling.

How does the fan base feel about this? Because I saw some comments from Khaadri the other day, um, where I guess he was taking aim at people that wanted the flames to lose, to improve their, their, their, their draft level. And we're very familiar with that, you know, conversation here in Vancouver. Um, is there a mix among the fan base?

Are they all on board with One Directioner or what's going on in Calgary? No, you're right. It's a mix and that's why Kaudry said that to me. He said, show me somebody who wants to lose and I'll show you a loser. And I don't want to be around losers.

I thought it was pretty strong words. And there's a lot of people who think the only way to get to the top in the National Hockey League is to tear it down pretty strong words. And there's a lot of people who think the only way to get to the top in the National Hockey League is to tear it down to the bottom first. And this ownership group in Calgary will never, ever subscribe to that theory in my lifetime, in your lifetime.

They will never, ever believe that it's okay to tear a culture apart and then try to rebuild it from scratch. And when I talked to ownership about it They cite the Buffalo Sabres Look how long they've been in an absolute tailspin and it's not getting better anytime soon The Oilers were in that tailspin for like what 12 years they were drafted first overall every year and still never did anything until last year Detroit Red Wings like I could go on and on and on. For every organization like the Chicago

Blackhawks who did tear it down to the bottom and then built a backup to win, there are several organizations where they've never recovered. So yeah, but the fan base is torn. There are a lot of people who just don't think it's possible to do what I call a hybrid rebuilt. And I think Calgary is almost trying to invent that term. And we'll see. If it catches on. I'm not sure. I'm not sure anything I come up with will ever catch on, but you know, the, the idea is, you know, they're trying to do something new.

They, the only thing kind of comparable is what Dallas has done. Dallas didn't go down to the bottom, uh, to be one of the juggernauts in the league right now, they just hit it really big with one or two drafts in a row and got some real big ticket items and made them work. So they're kind of trying to follow in Dallas's path. But yeah, there's another whole thing and I don't want to get all into it, but they have two first rounders this year. If they don't finish in the bottom 10 of the league, they have to give up their first, you know, their first round pick to the Montreal Canadiens as part of the Sean Monahan salary

dump. And so there's a lot of people who think that they need to tank from now to the end. And that's what Kaudry was referring to. A lot of people would think they need to tank, finish bottom 10 and preserve that really good pick, otherwise they got to send it somewhere else. So anyway, that's a debate that's been going on Otherwise they got to send it somewhere else. So anyway.

Well. That's a debate that's been going on. I'm very familiar with that debate because the counterpoint to you don't want to become the Buffalo Sabres is how do you get Sidney Crosby? How do you get Nathan McKinnon? How do you get Conor McDavid? It's by being bad.

Now McDavid hasn't won a cup yet, but he came pretty close last year. McKinnon's won a cup. Crosby's won a cup. You know, you go back to Patrick Kane, right? And the Blackhawks dynasty, which was essentially started when they were really bad. So when you ask management and ownership, okay,

well, what's your plan to get top level elite players at the most important positions, which is, you know, number one center, number two center, number one defenseman. Like, how, what's their answer to that? Yeah, their answer to that is just we're going to stockpile draft picks and hope that one of them turns into a lottery ticket. Not a lottery pick, but a lottery ticket. And you know, you hit a big one with someone.

Look, the biggest star in the organization right now, without question, the guy who sells the most jerseys, the most marketable player, the guy who gives people the most hope in Calgary is Dustin Wolff. And they took him, well, they think it was the fourth last pick of the draft in the seventh round. That doesn't happen very often. I get that. But look around the league, you know, I don't know the leading scorers in the league. There are guys that have been drafted well outside of the first round or late in the first round all over the place. So yeah, for sure there are your generational

players and you listed four of them just now but you know name more than that there aren't that many more so here's the thing that people are sick of in this city being in the mushy middle I've covered this team for 30 years and I asked our stats guys at sports net to tell me where do the flames land over the 17 years like just give me their record of a lot of these and where does that rank and they said it was 17th, which kind of illustrated perfectly the point. They're usually one spot out of a playoff spot,

which means you draft, you know, you know, right in the middle of the draft in the first round and you never get that star player. Um, but you also never get rewarded with a whole lot of playoff success or gates either. So that's, that's where the frustration lies in Calgary, the mushy middle. It's not as bad as Buffalo, where they're always the worst,

but it's not as good as other cities where they consistently make the playoffs. We're speaking to Eric Francis from Sportsnet in Calgary here on the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Eric, I wanna go back to something we kinda touched on right at the beginning of this hit. How much does positive culture and likeability and punching above your weight?

matter to this group and to this into your market because you know if you look at the Canucks and Flames right now is You know statistically they're almost identical in a lot of different ways They're both on 65 points yet You could make a very valid or valid argument that one team is borderline loathed by its fan base based on this season, while the other one has to admire what its team has done to get to this point. And I know Calgary's, they've got a lot of people that say, you gotta get, like you said, get to the bottom

to make your way back to the top. But is there something to be said for the way that they've gone about this season, getting to that middle, mushy middle part, doing it in a sort of admirable way. I think that's a great point. And it's not just the perception from outside the team, the likeability of this team,

because it's quite high. I mean, there's frustration, don't get me wrong, especially when your team can't score. I mean, when you go pay money to go to a game and your team doesn't score very often, it sucks. You never get that one chance to jump to your feet and celebrate. But it's the culture inside the room that's so radically different between the two teams you just talked about. I think it's pretty well-doctored and you guys have spent hundreds of hours, thousands of hours this year talking about the culture in that room and

how broken it is and was it fixed with the trade and do they need more trades and all that debate. That's been the focal point of your season all year long. The focal point in Calgary has been, they're building something beautiful in that room. Every guy in that locker room wants to be in Calgary and is proud to be a Calgary flame and has no designs to leave anytime soon. And they're all moving in the same direction

because everybody counted them out and said you can't make the playoffs and they are highly motivated by people who have doubted them. And they're building something pretty special in there right now. I don't know where it's going to go, but it's certainly moving in the right direction and it has them in a pretty incredible spot compared

to where everyone thought they should be. I don't like this. I enjoy hating, I enjoy hating the Calgary Flames, not admiring what they do. Like bring back, bring back the old flames, bring back Al McInnes and Joel Otto. This is terrible stuff. Eric, thanks so much for taking the time to join

us today. We'll see how this race ends and enjoy covering a team that is easy to cheer for. That's funny. Boys, well, I have a feeling we're going to be talking a lot over the next month and a half here because this race is going to be for. That's funny boys. Well, I have a feeling we're going to be talking a lot over the next month and a half here, because this race is going to be

interesting, isn't it? It's just going to be so good. Yeah, it's pretty tight. It's a bit of, like you said, it's a bit of a turtle Derby, but Hey, it's still a Derby. So there's that. Thanks Eric for doing this today. We appreciate it bud.

Cheers boys. Have a good one. Uh, Eric Francis from Sportsnet and Calgary here on the Halford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. I did want to- Don't worry. I still hate the flanks.

I know it's not that. I wanted to hit on that exact point. Is it dumb though? Is it dumb to try hard? I mean, that's the whole thing, right? Is it dumb to overachieve? I think the worst thing with the Canucks over the last, okay, go post 2011, is that they tried to maintain the culture and they tried to win

and they lost it anyway. I mean, in our conversation, I remember with Jim Benning, he told us like, yeah, we lost the culture here. And that was the Sidene culture and even the Sedin's were part of that group for a little bit, they did lose that culture. And that really is on management, that the culture was lost despite spending so much money on quote unquote culture guys.

They lost the culture. And I think a lot of the reason was, was because they tried to bring young players into the lineup too soon. They didn't do a good job of developing those guys. They didn't draft enough character. Some of the guys that they drafted early on weren't character players. And now we're getting to this question right now is like, do we, do the Canucks have enough character in this group?

I mean, there is something to be said and, you know, beyond analytics and stats and everything else about the, the relationship that the team has with the people that follow team has with the people that follow it and are invested in it and pay money to watch it. And when you cross the sort of bridge from, they're okay, and in the Kinect's case right now, that at times rather unlikable,

that goes way beyond any statistical measure for me. Because all of a sudden you just start questioning like why am I invested in this? Yes. Right? That's a, and that is a big philosophical question that a lot of these organizations have to ask when they look at everything purely designed

by numbers and analytics and statistical output. It's that there is a very primal part of being a fan where you're happy when you leave the rink because the team has won, and you're sad when you leave when they've lost. And you like the players. But you like the team. But you don't like the guys on it.

That's a very basic thing. That's a very primal human instinct. And this year in particular, there's been a lot of brand damage. I hate talking like a Ted talk, but there's been a lot of brand damage on the part of the Canucks where- Has there been enough customer engagement?

The customer engagement might be low because the players that they are forced to often engage with have put forth very unsavory performances on the ice and off of it. That's the truth, brother. This team has been really unlike, and I'm not just talking about Miller and Pedersen. Don't get it twisted and it's that one particular thing.

It's that they don't stick up for one another. It's that they don't show a hell of a lot of bite or fight when things are bad. Pac mentality shows up whenever they feel like it, seemingly, and then sometimes it doesn't show up at all. Right? Does it make it worse that last season happened because it almost feels like, wait a minute,

do we get fooled? Do we get fooled? Adog, do you feel fooled? Way worse. Yeah. You get fooled. Because I was so stoked. You remember me.

I was so excited for the start of the season. I was like, they're going to take another step. They're going to make the conference finals. They're, the core is finally arrived. Like we were sitting there as like, they've fixed the culture. Yeah. They have a good culture. The leadership group has been empowered.

Like everything, everything led me to believe. I'm like, I can't believe I said that. Like Pederson's performances everything, everything led me to believe. I'm like, I can't believe I said that. Like Patterson's performances aside, everything led me to believe this would be another great year for the team. And they'd be competing hopefully for a Stanley Cup. I thought. And yet here we are. I thought the group had collectively moved past where

Kevin Biaxa would again have to intervene and tell these guys about what culture means and what being tough and playing for the Crest means, but he did it again on Saturday. Did you see the, I tweeted it out. The quote was, this is BX a post game after that brutal loss in Seattle. He said, it's not a hard team to play against right now.

You look at their coaching staff with talk and footer who had a ton of bite and it's hard right now when you have a team with some good players, but not a lot of bite. Got a lot of stick checkers out there. I know BXA is paid to analyze and I know that he's going to focus on the Canucks more because of his history with the team. But how many times has he been the one that stood up and been like, this ain't it and this ain't right? This feels like an annual exercise,

save for last year when the times were good. Mike Texan, yes, we got fooled. It was the biggest magic trick a team has played and we were so skeptical from the start of the season last year and we waited months before we'd all believe. And they took the whole year to convince all of us. And then this year, they just pulled the rug out on us. I think that's very accurate. I know it got to the point last year when

a lot of us were just kind of like, okay, I guess I was wrong. I guess I was wrong. No, no, but last year can exist in a vacuum that was last year. Like things change. No, it can't exist in a vacuum. It sure can. Last year was a great time and that team was good. Things changed. So you look at the season right now and you don't think of last year at all, though that last year is just in a vacuum?

I think the issues that they're having this year are doubly, if not triply more frustrating because of last year. If it was just another bad year, I'd be like, yeah, I guess they haven't figured it out yet. I don't, but like I don't look back on last year as like I got hoodwinked or that I shouldn't have been emotionally invested

or that I should regret liking the team. I liked a lot of parts of last year's team, a lot of it. I think they missed the door off big time. I think they missed the swagger that he brought. I think they missed that get up and go attitude that they had where they would get hit with adversity and there would be some pushback. I don't know what happened to it,

but there were things that they did last year that I was like, yeah, I like this. This is a team that I can get behind guys that I can get behind. Well, I joked it was on Twitter. I joked it was the monkey paw effect. Like Knox fans like just give us one winning season and then a monkey paw girls. And then, but it then you're losing almost your entire core in one year. But it did start to turn last season. I don't think we should act like, like I, I

totally, a hundred percent disagree that the whole last season can exist in a vacuum because I think that. My brain vacuum. Yeah, your brain is a vacuum. Um, and then because at the all star break, things started to turn with, vacuum. Um, and then because at the all star break, things started to turn with you know who, and there was some, some tension there with will he sign or,

or won't he sign and then he signed, by the way, I think that's like officially a year ago. And it was, well, a year and a day ago that he signed that contract extension. And then as they went into the playoffs, like these offensive issues became at the forefront, right? It wasn't like they were scoring a ton of goals all the way through the end of the regular season and

into the playoffs. And then the offense just fell off a cliff at the start of last season. This started the PDO bender that they were on in a lot of ways, ended at the all star break. They sent six guys to the all star break and then something happened after that. Right. And I think the tensions on the team started when Pedersen signed the contract and then

really struggled. And look, that Oilers series, a lot of us look back on that and go, that team, the Oilers was there for the taking if Pedersen had showed up, if he had played. And he didn't play well, but we went into the options. Also Demko was healthy, would have helped you. Yeah. But that might have been enough too. helped you. Yeah, but people are like everything went right last year. I'm like, well, that's selective memory,

not everything went right last year. It did at the beginning of the season. It did at the beginning, and then it's kind of started to fall off a little bit. But I'm just saying, it wasn't like, game seven ended against the Oilers, and we were like, everything was great. You know, there were, there were, there were some tensions. And I think that carried over into this season and

everything just exploded. Uh, we got a lot more to get to on the health and breadth show on sports net six 50 satyar Shah is going to join us on the other side for more Canuck stock. We're also going to do what we learned at eight 30 gate years in Dunbar Lombert text line six 50, six 50 hashtag at WWL and tell us what you learned over the last 24, sorry 72 hours in sports, it's a Monday. What did you learn over the weekend?

Let us know, it's your chance to be on the radio. That's coming up at 8.30. You're listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet. 650.