Halford & Brough in the Morning - Did The Canucks Misjudge The Market?

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason discuss a busy Week 1 with Too Deep Zone NFL insider Mike Tanier (1:16), the boys discuss what's next for the Canucks this week, as preparations for the upcoming season begin to ramp up, plus they chat about the 'Nucks struggles to find a true second line center. (27:00) This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

702 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody, Halford Brough, SportsNet 650. Good tune. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest, visit them online at sands dash trsb.com. We are now in our two of the program. Mike Tanier, our NFL insider, from the two deep zone is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. Hour two is brats by Jason

hominuck at Jason. Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. This is them online at jason. We are coming to you live from the Kintech studio, Kintech Footwear and Orthotics, working together with you in step. We go now to the Power West Industries hotline. Our next guest is a presentation of the Clayton Public House. He's our Monday morning quarterback. He's our NFL insider.

He's from the Two Deep Zone. He's Mike Tanier. joins us now in the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Good morning, Michael. How are you? I think I'm hallucinating after that Sunday night football game. I was reading the Two Deep Zone, and he got to the part of the article where you wrote what it means for the Ravens and Bills. And he goes, something, something.

bills hold head-to-head playoff tiebreaker, something, something, it's late, okay. Which is fair. That's a big day of writing for you. I actually wanted to ask, Mike, like, does that game mean anything, or was it just fun for all of us to watch? Well, my next takeaway, after I kind of gave up and said something, something, something, was that both of these teams in week one look like the best teams in football. Like, if you compare them to the way the Chiefs looked, any other team in the AISD, even the Eagles,

even some of the teams that got wins. Nobody looked as good as the bills and the Ravens, which means they're probably going to face off again in January, which means that the home field advantage tiebreaker could well be who won this game. And that means this could be a playoff game that goes through Buffalo instead of Baltimore, which will probably make a difference. You know, I'm glad you brought that up because buddy of mine, all of us Seahawks supporters and followers are on a text thread yesterday.

And he said, Ken, let's just make one thing's clear. there's no way the Seahawks could play with either of these teams. Then we tried to come up with a list of who could. And maybe five teams with those two being in the mix. Like that game was played at an exceptionally high level yesterday. I know the defenses weren't great, but you could make the argument that they weren't great because the offenses were so prolific.

But that really was a testament to what elite football looks like, even though it's early in the season, it's only week one. Yeah, it was at a different speed. Like everyone looked like they were hitting harder. things were moving faster. Ball was leaving Josh Allen's hands faster. Lamar Jackson was able to get the Baltimore open receivers. Derek Henry was Derek Henry.

Yeah, and you guys watched, I mean, I just watched, rewatch Seahawks 49ers. That was being played at like speed in like second gear. Right. And the Ravens and Bill spent that entire game playing in fourth gear. And it's just a noticeable difference that I think just speaks to how the playoffs are probably going to go through, you know, either Baltimore or Buffalo this year. team that we haven't spoken about yet is the Detroit Lions who got off to a shaky start without their Bally Hood offensive coordinator, Ben Johnson. 2713 loss to Green Bay. What did you make of this

one? And should there be concern or is it too early for the Lions? Yeah, there should be concerned because all the things that you would be worried about were the things you're worried about. They're like, boy, they don't have any pass rushers besides Aiden Hutchinson and they made a point of not getting someone else. And look, they can't really apply pressure. You can just double team Aiden Hutchinson, and then Jordan Love has time to throw. Oh, Frank Ragnow retired, and then they had some injuries in the interior line. Is the line as good as it used to be? No, it isn't. They can't run the ball anymore. Oh, they lost their offensive and defensive coordinator. Are they a little less creative and a little less sharp? They look less creative and less sharp. All the problems

that you think were going to be problems were issues against a tough opponent that they kind of wanted to and needed to be, and they were able to beat last year. So these are legit. legitimate worries for the Lions. And the biggest one of all is, yeah, they got off to a shaky start in the beginning of that game. They never pulled it together. There was a while where it was 17 to 3, 17 to 6, and it's like, get a stop, score a touchdown, put yourself back in range, and everything was so flat that the Lions just couldn't figure out a way to do it. Aaron Rogers and the Pittsburgh Steelers yesterday, 34 to 32 win over the Jets, very entertaining, and the numbers on Rogers were great. 22 of 30 for 244 yards, four touch.

touchdowns in the game beyond the box score and the stats, Mike. What did you see from Rogers? You know, I was going to write a joke saying, you know, this was the worst four touchdown victory I've ever seen. But of course, well, you know, four touchdown victory, what do you want? But like, Rogers did a really good job spreading the ball around. He was getting the ball to guys in space. If he is pressured at all, he's either going to hit the deck

or he's going to throw the ball away unless he's got like a hot read that's all lined up for him, opponents are going to notice this. Opponents that got their act together more than the Jets are going to notice this. I think you're going to see kind of like the late career Ben Rafflesberger that you saw in Pittsburgh where it was like, oh, smoking mirrors and like, you know, savvy veteran stuff, and then long field goals. That's what that win was yesterday. It's a close win over the Jets that could have gone either way. Let's see what happens when they're facing the Bengals.

Let's see what happens when they're facing the Ravens. You wrote that Aaron Rogers impressed in his Steelers debut. and Russell Wilson depressed in his giant's debut. We haven't played the audio yet. I was saving it to watch Brian Dable fumble and stumble and stutter his way through the question. That sounds like Russ playing quarterback. Yeah, it was like it mirrored exactly what his single caller was doing. Finally, I don't remember.

I think it might have been Pat Leonard from the New York Daily News. Was like, are you going to answer the question? Like, is Russell Wilson going to be your starting quarterback in week two? Before we get to that part, Mike, what did you see from Russ? Or what didn't you see from Russ as the Giants QB in week one? I didn't see anything. You know, I was actually sitting at a bar. There were some Giants fans there.

And they were like, I can't believe, and there were some Steelers fans. I can't believe we're still watching this guy. Like, I can't believe that after last year with the Steelers and all those years with the Broncos and how long ago the great season of the Steelers a bit, we're still playing this thing where he just dumps it off, dumps it off, scrambles, but it's not really that good of scramble anymore, gets to the red zone, can't find an open guy, throws it away over and over again. It's a rough watch, and it hasn't changed, and it doesn't get any better, and it's not going to get better with the Giants when the Steelers at least had, you know, T.J. Watt and George

Pickens and other guys there to help him out. So I'm not surprised with the pressure on Brian Dayball. I'm not surprised Brian Dayball's already cracking under it and acting like a weirdo. We should be seeing Jackson Dart sooner than later. I don't know if Jackson Dart is ready, but I know Russell Wilson is just playing out the string and just limiting what a team can do with him at quarterback. Should we talk about another old quarterback, Joe Flacko? I thought he looked okay and I didn't think the interceptions were really his fault. What did you think of his performance and what did you think about the game overall Bengals

beat the Browns 17 to 16? You know, it's funny, I was the same bar that happened to be in Joe Flacko's hometown, which is where I live, and people were screaming and hooting and hollering for Joe Flacko, which was crazy. You know, that's what your veteran quarterback performance looks like when the game stays close, when you have pretty much no one to throw to, we have to just sort of be poised in the pocket and hope Jerry Judy catches the ball, and you hope Harold Fatton, the rookie titan catches the ball, and you get that kind of success. So I think that that's the apex of the Browns, that they're going to be able to play people tough once in a while

with defense and until you know, Flacco inevitably takes the hit that like knocks out his ankle or whatever. Another weird Bengals, you know, the Bengals want to make this statement. Like, look, we're not going to have a slow start this year. They beat the Browns by one point. Yeah.

That is not a statement you want to make. And I'll understand the Bengals a little more. They're going to face a pretty sprightly Jaguar team that looked pretty good yesterday, and I'll get more of a sense of that team next week. We're speaking to Mike Tanier, our NFL Insider from the Two Deep Zone here on the Halford and Brough show on Sports.

net 650. We're going to jump around here, but I did want to go back to Friday night in Brazil where the Kansas City Chiefs lost after seven straight wins over the Chargers 27 to 21. Entertaining game, again, for sure, but... The greatest Justin Herbert performance of all time. Outstanding Justin Herbert performance. Honestly, it was great. And, you know, it's scary, I think, if you're a chief supporter, a lot of the issues that people thought they were going to have coming into the season were still there.

They also suffered a pretty big injury to Xavier Worthy. I think they left Brazil, maybe a little bit more shaken than they should be after what was like a one score loss. So not a lopsided defeat or anything, but still there's some concerns there for me, at least, with that Chiefs team. It's another example like the Lions of all the problems that you thought were problems or problems. Right. Okay, you bring in Josh Simmons a left tackle, and he's okay, but you had to move Kingsley-Starmatiaa, and the guy who couldn't play left tackle to guard, and he can't play there. and Joanne Taylor's still right card, and he's not very good.

And Kelsey looks like a zombie, he's struggling around out there, and you have to, like, manufacture touches for him, and now worthy is her, and Rishi Rice is suspended, and you're down to all these receivers that you're like, oh, my goodness, these guys should be sitting on the bench or on the practice squad right now. And Patrick Mahomes has to, like, and Mahomes and Reed, have to, like, scheme and execute perfectly to get, like, a six-yard out.

Like, they have to be operating at the top of, their abilities to get the ball to Hollywood down in the flat with space so maybe he can get 7, 8, 9 yards. That's not where you need to be when the bills can throw for 251 yards in the fourth quarter. When Derek Henry can, like, single-handedly

run for 120 yards before half-five and do these things to smoke opponents, that's not where the chiefs have to be. I don't think they're vulnerable to the Chargers, Broncos, Raiders, this year in terms of the division, but could they wind up 11 and 6? absolutely could they wind up 10 and 7

absolutely could they be on the road for the playoffs the entire time that's going to be a problem because I can't see them doing their Houdini routine and getting into the Super Bowl under those circumstances you don't think the Chargers could win the division I think they could but you're right you said it right there that was the best

Justin Herbert performance ever hey you know it's your six the best performance of his career shouldn't be like the opener that they win by one score he's always played well in South America you know he does love Brazil. Right. Right. They move the team to Buenos Aires and then you really have something. I mean, the Broncos are pretty tough too, but I don't see, I'm not going to get that alarmist with the Chiefs and say they're vulnerable to these teams that they've figured out ways to win for like beat the last five years.

Well, speaking of the Broncos, I did not watch the Broncos Titans game, but... Lucky you. Sometimes you look at a box score and you're like, that looks like an ugly game. Bo Nix, a quarterback for Denver, obviously, and it was Cam Ward, making his debut for Tennessee, and, again, by the looks of the box score, struggling. Yeah, well, he took six sacks. He had a bunch of passes drop. Calvin Ridley was dropping anything thrown his direction. They've got, like, two rookies, Alec, Aymour and Gunnar Helm in, like, the starting line up at receiver and tight end.

they were making mistakes, they were not getting open. At one point, Cam Ward tries to throw a screen out to the wide receiver, and no wide receiver is running a screen route. They're all blocking. Like there's three guys blocking for nobody, and Ward is throwing passes to the nobody. It was a discombobulated offense. It was a great Broncos defense.

So, you know, I'm not worried about Cam Ward long term, but I wouldn't be putting any rookie of the year bets down on him. He doesn't have the support around him. he does make the mistakes that rookies who can scramble off and make where when the pressure comes they think oh i'm michael vick i can do like two spin moves and run backwards out of the pocket no that's an 11-yard loss uh i can't oh you can't do that in the nfl and that's what the titan season is going to look like you you guys had to watch that seahawks niner's game you you owe yourself not watching that titans broncos i watch both

at the same we had four screens going so we had the rams texans obvious and i was like okay I guess maybe it's going to be good. That was not good at all. The Broncos, the Broncos Titans game was tough to watch. The Packers' Lions game was kind of interesting, but the Lions couldn't do anything on offense. And then the Seahawks game was the best one. At least it was close, right?

At least is close. We're speaking of Mike Tanier here, by the way, our Monday morning quarterback brought to you by the Clayton Public House. Pre-game to post game, the Clayton Public House is your home of football. Catch all the action on 15 screens and two giant projectors, visit them online at the Clayton Pub. So last week in our season preview, we were talking about the stinky poo index, which I still liked, all the bad teams in the NFL.

And we talked about Miami and you had them firmly in that mix. And then they went out and gave you proof of concept in week one by getting absolutely destroyed, destroyed by the Colts. Way to go, Colts. You won your first game for the first time in over a decade. 2013, right? That's crazy. That's crazy. But for the dolphins, based on what you saw, I don't know how much you saw of it.

yesterday, but how much trouble is this football team in? If I woke up this morning and saw Mike McDaniel had been fired and Tuatung of oil had been treated, I would not have been surprised. I mean, and we're going to wake up one morning. It won't be, it won't be tomorrow. It probably won't be week two. I'm looking up there by week. It will be week 12 thereby or before.

This was one of the most unprepared teams that I've seen to face a, let's call them a welter week in the Colts. A team that you should at least be able to stand toe-to-to-to-with if you're going out there in your fourth year as a coach and I've made the playoffs in the past and you get smoked and you're smoked in the first quarter and your defense is listless and your offense keeps turning the ball over

and Tyreek Hill has gone to his happy place in his mind. I don't know what to know what that looks like, but he's there. It was awful. And the thing, and we joked about it last week, the week before, the dolphins have been signaling all off-season that this is how it's going to be. trading away veterans veterans who leave that team

kind of talking on the way out about how soft they are how unfocused they are Mike McDaniel acting like he has some kind of like depression issues when he's going through his not to belittle that but he's saying weird stuff in his press conferences that are like coach

this is not how coaches talk to to the press it is weird it is sad and it's going to get rougher before it gets better they they've got the bills in two weeks they could lose by 45 points easily to the bills they get the Patriots next week another opponent they should be able to stand toe to toe with

let's see if they can put up any kind of fight Is it too early to start talking about trading Tyreek somewhere No but like I guess once that happens That's the end of everything That's the end of empire I don't know how Chris Greer the general manager Survise his job doing that

I don't know how I mean McDaniel's done that point. If they were going to move Tyreek, the time to have done it that would have made sense is February or March. You could have gotten some value for him. You could have said this is a rebuilding era. Then you betrayed Jalen Ramsey. You do it now. You're going to get all these weird lowball offers by opponents who smelled blood in the water. But I wonder if he might just be like, hey, get me out of here. Well, that'll be the first salvo. You'll either hear from him because he doesn't, he's not shy about offering his opinions about what's going on. Or you'll get to

the mysterious hamstring injury that doesn't go away. Finally, Mike, before we let you go, Monday night, football tonight. We got one more on the slate. It's the Bears. It's the Vikings 5.15 p.m. kickoff, our time. What are you looking for in the first Monday night or the year? I'm looking to see who J.J. McCarthy really is. I'm looking to see who Calib Williams is

in the Ben Johnson era. Both of these teams, there's rivalry, there's intrigue, because Cald Williams said that he wanted to play for the Vikings, not the Bears. there's like game within a game between these two opponents. I'm not sure, since no one has seen McCarthy, I'm not sure what to make of it there. I'm leaning towards taking the Vikings in this one. I think they're just a better team top the bottom. And they're more, they're in better position to plug and play a second year quarterback coming off of a 14-win season than the bears are where it looks like Johnson has a lot of culture building to do in Chicago.

Mike, you're the best, buddy. Thanks for doing this today. we really appreciate it. Enjoy Monday night football and then all of next weekend's game as well. We'll do this again next Monday. My pleasure. Take care and enjoy your week.

Yeah, you too, buddy. Thanks. That's Mike Tanier, our NFL Insider from the two deep zone substack here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. So of all the teams that laid eggs in week one, and there was a handful of them, right?

We just talked about the Miami Dolphins. I don't think the Detroit Lions were any too pleased with their performance. There was one team that scored fewer points then them all. And that was the Russell Wilson-led New York Giants who finished Sunday's loss to the commanders with a grand total of six points of offense.

Russ went 17 of 37 passing. The crazy part is that for the six points of the Giants scored, they were actually in good positions to score way more points in that. Twice they had the ball inside the five-yard line. They settled for a field goal the first time, and then they went for it on fourth down and the second, and didn't get any points whatsoever. There's two issues here.

One, like Russ is a diminished product. The play calling also is kind of reflective of no faith in what he can do. It's a lot of like, you know, run, run, pass in, you know, short yardage situations where they're just trying to grind out yards. Nothing's working, right? He doesn't have the legs anymore. And he hasn't for years. I'm going to play the audio now.

And this is Brian Daibel, the head coach of the New York Giants. Now, you got to keep in mind what's going. on with the Giants, right? A lot of jobs are on the line here. And I think Daebles is one of them because last year was a disaster. They made a big decision organizationally to move on from Danny Dimes, Daniel Jones. He's now the starting quarterback in Indianapolis and they put up 33 points in a win over the dolphins yesterday. They made the move on from him.

They made the move to bring Russell Wilson in and to start him ahead of Jackson Dart at least in week one. now dable and it's a back and forth between reporters here so pay attention but dable was asked after this 21 to six loss if he's ready to commit to russell wilson as his starting quarterback in week two he didn't come out and answer it there was a lot of dancing around it which was weird because all he had to say was yes and if the answer is not yes you know what the other answer is here's the entire bit audio this is new york giant's head coach brian dable talking about russell wilson's future as his starting quarterback after a 21 to six lost to the commanders on Sunday. Will you consider starting Jackson next week? Yeah, look, we're going to get home. Pat, we're going to look at our game. Collectively, we all got to do better.

So two more, two more. Is it safe to say that Russell is still a starter? Yes, I mean, we're just right here after the game. I got confidence. We got to do better around overall, coaches, players around everybody. So, you know, we'll get focused and ready to go on Dallas.

In fairness, you're not answering this. Sounds like you're not answering. Well, we're talking about after every game. I got confidence in Russ. So we're going to go back. We'll evaluate the tape. This game isn't on Russell Wilson. It's not on Russell Wilson.

I'm going to make that clear. So I have confidence for us. We've got to do a better job all the way around. So he's not starting any time. I think he might get weak to. I think they might give him one more kick at it. Yeah. But after that, I,

It wasn't the right move at the time. I remember when they announced that this is the direction they were going to go in. And I remember thinking there's nothing left in the tank. There's really not. I mean, I thought that maybe they could surround him with pieces and try and keep games close. But as the preseason went along. And the other issue here... I remember he had one nice throw in the preseason and the Giants were like,

we got our guy! And then Daniel Jones had a decent game. The biggest issue here is that DART had such a good preseason and he's just sitting there waiting. If they did, like, if there were the other option was like, well, we've got James Winston here and, you know, we're going to always activate Tommy DeVito off the practice squad. I know he's not there anymore, but they've got the future sitting there and the present looks so bad. Like six points in your opener is atrocious, right? It was somewhat limited to six points yesterday. What did you think about Daniel Jones performance?

I mean, it was against the Dolphins, but we've seen guys get out of bad situations, and then it's like, oh, maybe, you know. Two rushing touchdowns. They obviously. He's always had that mobility. Yeah, right. And they are obviously more comfortable building plays around. It's weird because Anthony Richardson can also move around and is a very athletic quarterback.

He's, you know, had his issues turning the ball over and making decisions passing. But in terms of running the ball. But that's what they were able to. implement with Jones. I am hesitant to give a ton of credit and no disrespect to the tens of Colts fans that are listening right now. But the dolphins might be the worst team in the NFL this year. Yeah. No, I know. So it's hard to say exactly what that victory means, aside from the fact that you beat a really bad football team. Now, they put. But we also saw Daniel Jones, maybe as Seahawks fans, because we saw him coming to Seattle and pick the Seahawks apart. And he did a lot of damage

with his legs as well, like that game. Like, I, I know that it's soured in New York. And I know he got lots of bites at the apple and it just wasn't happening. And I think the market turned on him. And I think it probably, totally. I think it needed to happen, right? I think for him to thrive, you probably needed to go elsewhere. It's not like the first time we've seen it with quarterbacks, right?

See, Sam Donald had to go to a bunch of different places before he found his game. Baker Mayfield had to go to a bunch of different places where he's found his game. They're anticipating that Jones can be the same thing in indie. That chapter is yet to be written. The chapter that was written in New York was it just wasn't going to work. They had to move on from him. But to go with Russ, who's so limited in what he can do right now, it's a real problem. Okay, we're up against it for time.

We've got a lot more we've got to get into on the program. Let's dive back into some Canucks talk on the other side. There was a lot to chew on from the interview that general manager of the Vancouver Canucks, Patrick Alvin did with IMAC over the weekend in an article that's up now at sportsnet.com. We can also look ahead to the week and weeks that will be for the Canucks. There's a lot going on starting with today the Jake Milford Charity Golf Tournament, which is always the unofficial kickoff to the season. So there's lots to get into on the Canucks front.

At 8 o'clock, we're going to talk to J.C. Abbott from Three Down Nation, BC Lions reporter about another awful loss for the Lions who are now fighting for their playoff lives in the Canadian Football League. And then finally, at 8.30, we're going to do what we learns. Get them in now. Dumbar Lumber text message in Baskett is 650, 650. You can get in on some of the stuff we haven't even addressed yet. We haven't mentioned the J's losing two of three.

By the way, that entire series changed once AJ started to show up to the games at Yankee Stadium, by the way. He missed the Gossmann brilliant performance? He did. But then he was there for the other two. Bichette going to be back? Bruce shin. Yeah. Big old goose egg on the shin.

That was quite a decision to send him. Yeah. There was quite a few decisions. The entire series that we're questionable. So there's a lot to chew on from that series. Also, if you want to weigh on anything that happened to the tennis, Friday night, obviously Felix bowed out of the U.S. Open. Sinner went on to the final after beating Felix and then lost Alcoraz,

so we can talk about that as well. Point being, any what we learns that you have, send them in. Dunbar Limer text line is 650, 650. Hashtag him W. W.L. And we'll read them in about an hour's time. You're listening to The Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650. 733 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody.

Halford Braves sports, that's 6.50. I like this one. It's called Best Foot Forward. Yeah. You should put your best foot forward on a Monday. Get out there with a positive attitude. And now it's time to talk about the Caddox. Alford and Brough of the morning

It's bratsy by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks. Visit them online at Sands dash trustee.com. This music made all these reads sound like so much happier.

Ready? Hour to this program is braddy by Jason Homina at Jason.combeck at jason. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. visit them online at Jason I'm a mortgage.

Wow. I think I will. All right. Hour 2 is brought to you by Bill's Crematorium. Come see Bill. He'll put a smile on your face in these trying, trying times. Good job, A dog. It was very well done.

Okay. Let's get serious here. serious sports show. You're going to talk about the Canucks. This is your home of the Canucks, Sportsnet 650. Up on Sportsnet.com.ca right now is an interview that Ian McIntyre did with Canucks general manager, Patrick Alveen. Now, there's a lot of takeaways from this Q&A.

One of them, as we talked about already, is the ongoing search for both, I think both a 2C, but also center-depth in general. Have they put up like a poster around the neighborhood that they're looking for a 2C? One of those old school? where there's all the little tickets underneath that you can take a phone number. It's like, call me, Patrick.

Yeah, they might be at that point. The quote, and I'm sure he didn't mean it to sound this way, but. So the quote is this, the more depth you can have its center, probably the stronger you are as a team that tracks. Okay, yeah. It's an area where we've identified

that if we're going to make a trade, our preference is to strengthen our lineup with a center iceman. Right. but Ratu is what 22 years old Ty Muehler was a horse in Abbotsford at the end

Smaller horse And we have Max Sasson The end we have Max Sasson I mean that's not fair I mean theoretically putting a horse At 2C Yeah The worst thing you could do

But he was an Abbotsford horse You never know what happens When they got to change locale Yeah but I think that would distract The opponents at the very least That is true Yeah Anyway the big takeaway is not

The horses are never great puck Distributors though Yeah it's true Can't really stay up on their skates but I wasn't focused so much I wasn't focused so much on the horse part although I should have knowing our show but the end we have Max Sasson

was I was like come on like there's got to be a better way to say that and we have Max Sasson also he is here he remembered last oh and we have Max Sasson and then he puts down the phone he's like did anyone invite him to the golf tournament we got to get him out there on Monday

anyway the center position is one thing I think the more interesting thing for me because I like doing the big picture philosophical kind of dives into these things is when Alveen kind of became reflective of his tenure as the general manager. And he's, you know, he's talking about the chance to start a new season and be in the playoffs and another chance to get after it. Then he said, but man, it's so competitive. And when

you're in there, the years are just flying by. I think I owe it to the fans and ownership and the players, that's the way I see it. It's truly an honor and a privilege to be the general manager of Vancouver Canucks. The years are just flying by, and they really are. So I started thinking about it. This executive group, the Alveen Rutherford duo,

this is their thing now. They're on their third head coach. They've traded J.T. Miller and Bo Horvett. They've signed the most lucrative contract in the entire history of

the Vancouver Canucks. Mm-hmm. Like, they've, this is their thing, they've got enough of a CV and a resume and a track record that it's, they're well, well past the,

well, we got to clean up the, the Benning era. Like, they're well past that. Now we're talking about, I don't want to say like jobs are on the line, but they are.

They are this season. Okay. Well, you said, I didn't. I, that's fine. They are.

But that, if we have a repeat of last season, there have to be big changes. That's inevitably where that conversation goes. When you start talking. year four on the job. You're on coach number three. You've missed the playoffs last year.

You've got all of these sort of hallmarks of the team are yours. They're not the ones you inherited. They're not the ones that you had to deal with because the previous GM left UMF. These are all your moves now, or at least the majority of them are your things. The problem that they're looking at right now is you can't just conjure up a center in the NHL. We talked to Eric Engels earlier in the show. And he was like, yeah, the Habs, a lot of promise. They're a young team.

Made some moves. But, you know, we're going to see if, you know, Kirby Doc or one of these other guys can be the 2C. Because they don't have, they don't have a 2C they can rely on either. Like they've got their own heedles, right? Well, we don't know if this guy's going to be able to handle it. and I think that the Canucks misread the market heading into this offseason because the way they were talking after last season, they made it sound like, yeah, we're going to have to give up some futures

to get that second line center, but we're going to do it. Rutherford said they would do whatever it takes. That's an exact quote, whatever it takes. And he basically said, I think one of his quotes, and I'm paraphrasing here a little bit, but he said, it's going to be expensive to get a second line center or another center or whatever. But it's going to be more expensive if we don't, which means the cost of it is going to be, oh my God, you're going to go into next season without center depth or without a top six that you like down the middle, which is pretty important in the game of hockey.

what I don't think they expected and I don't know if they should should have been expecting this because I think a lot of GMs found this out is that almost nobody was looking for futures all those teams out there were like we want to be better this season

we want to have we're going to have NHL players and we're not looking to get rid of them you know Marco Rossi was available from Minnesota But the problem with that was Minnesota was like, well, you know, we're not looking for futures for Rossi. He was a pretty important part of our team. We're not looking to just give him away for draft picks.

Yep. We need a player back. So they went to the connection and they're like, what are they got? He's like, well, we're not really looking to move anyone, right? You know, like with the cap space, everyone was like, we want to be competitive. And, yeah, there's a couple teams out there, maybe Pittsburgh, but even Pittsburgh didn't really sell. They don't really sell much Pittsburgh. Actually, it's crazy they haven't really sold.

But they don't have any centers available. I think that I think they misread the market. The caveat there is that I think a lot of general managers did as well. Or that they were putting up a smokescreen of some kind. Or do you just go into the offseason expecting, yeah, every off season, you know, there are sellers. And we'll find the sellers. Sure. And we'll find, I mean, we're talking about, you know, Miami selling Tyreek Hill after

after one game. That's just the way you expect. There are some teams out there that have good players, yes, but don't have expectations, so maybe they'll give up some of their good players. They're just, like, you know, if you go to Pittsburgh, right,

you're like, okay, well, who are your centers? They're not selling Sid. Right. I think the other part of it for me was that, and as we talk about legacy and tenure and this era of management and executive, they have been able to orchestrate a lot of moves. I don't think anyone can argue that point.

Since Alvin and Rutherford had come aboard, they have been able to orchestrate a lot of trade and trades of significance. And I think, again, I don't want to call it like hubris because that's like excessive pride or self-confidence and that's maybe unfair to these guys. But I do think there's a level of self-confidence between Alvian and Rutherford that they're going to,

to be able to move the pieces on the chess board to get the moves that they want done all the time and in the most recent iteration of this was how the miller trade eventually led to the peterson acquisition you know moving the pieces around right and they rounded out their blue line and i think that there was probably a little bit of a pat on the back that they were able to work their way out of the miller issue and also flip some stuff around so that they could build their blue line out and they're happy with their blue line i would imagine they did it too late last season. I mean, their lack of depth on the blue line

was a big reason why they started so bad. They did it too late, but they did it. I think the latter part is the important thing here is that I think that they honestly believe, and Rutherford, because he's maybe a little bit longer in the tooth and more experience, and maybe a little bit more stubborn. Like, he's always been able to do this. Yeah, yeah. Throughout his tenure, he's always

been able to be this guy. That maybe when the landscape chains around you, you don't even recognize it. You just assume that it's going to be business as usual because you've done it in the past. But I'm looking at a cross the board in the National Hockey League right now. And it makes perfect sense that there's a log jam when it comes to acquisition, like acquiring people.

Like you said it perfectly. No one wants futures. And for years, that's been the currency of the day. It's been an industry of trading picks because people were more than ready to stockpile them. You always had teams that wanted futures. And now we've hit a weird, almost a gully where there's no longer all those teams that like we're ready to take on your picks and your futures like even that trade between buffalo and

Ottawa um cousins and norris was like that was a hockey trade you know it's just like okay well let's see if you know maybe if they switch teams things will go better for them there was no team out there that was like selling for the future it's but but but but look maybe it's a bit of an odd comparison when you're comparing an NFL team to an NHL team

but I went into the Seahawks game yesterday thinking I wonder how the Seahawks are going to score points

this season because they've got one playmaker JSN you know he's a guy that knew he was going to get

all the attention dude Kenneth Walker did not look like a guy at all yesterday but you could at least put him in the conversation

before you'd be like yeah KW you can run he can bust one to the outside and you can go. Not happening. My point is is that the Seahawks,

the concerns we had about the Hawks coming into the season played out exactly the way some would have predicted. They didn't look like they had any playmakers on offense except for JSN and they're going to

have to find them or they're not going to score. It's about guys making things happen. I mean McCaffrey does it for the Niners. I don't know if they've got enough playmakers either, especially if they keep all their guys keep getting injured.

McCaffrey could be next. But it's kind of a I realize it's a simplistic way of looking at things, but it's also effective. Who makes things happen up front for the Canucks? Can I ask another question?

Can you answer the question first? Who makes things happen for the Canucks among their forwards? group. Connor Garland. Yep. Connor Garland. And when he's on,

Pedersen. Petterson. Who else? They're hoping Amanda Kane and they're hoping Philippeal. Kane doesn't really make things happen.

He does things out there that he's not, he's not a guy that will start a play with, it's not a guy that was start of play. He's a finisher.

He's actually a driver in the truest sense where he drives a net. You go straight to it. He often doesn't have the podcast. Right, but he's going there. Kane is going to do some stuff.

He's going to lay some big hits. He's going to get in fights. He's going to, hopefully he's going to score some goals. But he needs help. And so does Besser. And so does DeBresk. I would like DeBresk to do a little more by himself. But I think those guys are complementary players,

and there's nothing wrong with good complementary players. You need complementary players. Heidel showed flashes of it at times He's got to stay healthy It's so simple for him But also yeah He and he showed flashes of it Yeah like he's got

You can see the skill You can see like white guys Would be like yeah This guy theoretically Can be a two So he's got all the tools Beyond the skill It's the mentality

In which he approaches it That he's I think part of the reason He gets hurt is he puts himself In some vulnerable positions But he's willing to go there Because he's willing to make things happen Okay Lucas the fuel guy texts in And he said

The fact that no one wants futures In a McKenna draft is weird they can't all win their divisions. Maybe this is why some teams are like, I wonder if teams will change directions depending on how the first 20 games of the season go. They're like all of a sudden they're like, we're not good. Let's enter the McKenna sweepstakes.

I think, okay, I think a lottery ticket to the McKenna sweepstakes is the sort of like standoff that's happening right now. I think a lot of the teams that are interested in acquiring futures are like that's what we want and the teams that are willing to sell them are like I'm not ready to go there and then dot dot dot yet you know what I mean like that's the one

where it would tilt the scales I think is if you put an unprotected lottery pick for the McKenna sweepstakes that's tantalizing and I don't know how many general managers are willing to do it right now so far the answer is probably zero because we haven't seen a trade yet involving one

but that would tip the scale significantly I would say the chance to get in on that but it would also be a huge risk of the general manager just sending it out the door. Yeah. And what kind of teams are in that position? I got a question here from Fish Dancer. He says, guys, do you think Patrick Albine

really would be on the hot seat? Benning lasted a decade. Fish Dancer, my answer to that would be Benning lasted a decade. And it was way too long. If there's anything to be learned from that, it was they waited, they were way too patient. And the owner has admitted it.

Way too patient. They said we waited too long. They're on record saying it. Yeah. If you're going to be an organization that's moving, in a positive direction. You have to learn from the mistakes that you've made in the past.

And I know. And I think Rutherford might resign. I know. If things go as badly as they do this season, you might walk away. I know changing the regime is tough because you're not, changing a coach is more of a,

like pulling the choke chain to get a reaction from the guys on the bench. The general manager dismissal, you're talking about a pretty significant overhaul. But there is something to be said for when you feel like it's not going right and you don't like the direction you're in, you've got to pivot quickly because once you start tails, it's tough to get out of, like the decade of bending has been tough

to get out of. And it all depends. Like, first of all, the Canucks might make the playoffs. Sure. You know, there's, there aren't many perfect rosters in the NHL. You look around their division and there are, there are teams that you can pick apart and go, what about that, what about that? The same way you can pick apart with the Canucks.

Sure. missing the playoffs is you know you can't just say well if they miss the playoffs this will happen how do they miss the playoffs um god i was watching a game yesterday and i and i actually can't you know what i think it was the jets game it was the jets packers game and jet stealers Sorry, Jets Steelers game. And I don't want to compare the Jets to the Canucks, but I'm going to do it. Let's do it. And they asked the coach there, what are your goals for the season?

And he said, like, I want the fans to be proud of us. You know, and it's just I want the fans to show up and just be like, these guys are working hard and you know they're doing their best and they're it sounds so childish and so lame

but I immediately understood what he was talking about there are teams that can punch above their weight and still miss the playoffs sure and I personally want to see

a connection team that everyone's getting along that's important to me as a fan and everyone's pulling in the same direction and just and just trying like you might get unlucky you might get unlucky with some injuries that that might happen but how are you going to react to that are you going to be are you going to be a team because queen hugh said like you know like we're going to be a team this year and we kind of chuckled because Pierre Dorian said something similar to that with the Ottawa senators

when they were down in the dumps and he said we're going to be hardworking and we're going to be his team. Okay now go show us because last season you had a big fight between two of your leaders and one of them had to be traded. In that regard I think the Jets are a more than apt comparison because the last

two years in New York Jets football the fans were out on that team. They were on an unlikable football team. Aaron Rogers' tenure as a jet was there weren't many people that were like, this is great. They're super likable. They're super relatable, right? They got Robert Sol of fire.

They brought in Jeff Ulbric. He had issues. They brought in a bunch of Rogers' ex-teammates, and that didn't work out. There was reported riffs among everybody. And then they bring in Aaron Glenn as the new head coach, like you were saying. And he's like, we just want to, I mean,

almost in a way, make the team likable again. And there's some, for me, that's a big deal with the Canucks. I know not everyone feels the same way. It's a big deal of fan base. It's a big deal of fan base. Like, you can't. can't have a year last year, like the Canucks had, where you've got star players feuding

with one another and openly disliking one another. And we've talked about this, and this is a million times I'm going to say it's, and then you go out in front of your ticket buying public and stink to join out with regularity. Losing as badly as they did, as often as they did on home ice, made them even less likable. Because to the casual fan, there was a correlation between, well, these guys don't like each other in the room. and now it's showing up on the ice.

Yeah, and Tyler Myers can come out and say it wasn't as bad in the room as everyone is making it out to be and maybe not, but that was a perception. Perception can be reality sometimes. If you're coming out on home ice where you're supposed to have a lift and an advantage

and the fans are there holding up their end of the bargain and I'm not talking about valiant one goal losses where everyone worked their ass off. There were eggs laid repeatedly at a horrible, didn't we come up with a Mount Rushmore of bad home losses? And then we had to come up with a second Mount Rushmore

because the first one was full. Yeah. And the first one wasn't applicable anymore. There was one that was so bad that was like we need a I think we called it this statue of liberty. Carve out a whole new mountain. There was just one. It's bad when you need two Mount Rushmore's. Yeah. But one is

not enough. It was terrible for the environment. The loss that they had, the loss they had in New Jersey in the beginning of the year where Silabs was an end, they lost six nothing, and it was huesa-palooza and i think it was right around halloween was maybe some of the worst vibes i've ever felt in a building in my life because it was also the backdrop of like people still trying to have fun because it was Halloween they'd put like uh look there's a kid dressed up as a pumpkin

up on the big everyone was booing them you know you know what the loss i think that got the statute of Liberty loss. It was 5-1 at home to L.A. January 16th when J.T. Miller looked like he had no interest in playing hockey. That was a bad one. None. That was a really bad one. Yeah.

They'd come home from a road trip. Remember they had lost to Winnipeg 6 to 1? Yeah. And everyone was like, they're going to bounce back tonight. Three games before, PD won the Selke in Toronto. That was great. They beat the Leafs 3-0. Then they went to Winnipeg and got,

totally outclassed. Yep. And then they're like, okay, we're going to come home. We're going to have a better effort against L.A. And that was, that was the one where I was like,

I'm not sure we're going to see J.T. Miller in a Canucks uniform again. Now, we did see him six more times in a Canucks uniform, but then he was traded to the Rangers. That was also around the time that you, everyone's, the realization that the playoffs were in major jeopardy

was happening. January. January. Everyone was like, this is not going well. This could be a problem. Okay. We've got to go to break. Before we go to break, I need to tell you about JanPro, from warehouses to washrooms, and everywhere in between Janpro keeps workplaces tidy, clean and disinfected for a free quote. Visit them online at Janpro.com. We will turn our attention to another local sporting squadron on the other side of the break.

J.C. Abbott from Three Down Nation. BC Lions reporter is going to join the program in the aftermath of another, another disappointing loss for the Lions on Friday in the nation's capital in Ottawa. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650.