Halford & Brough in the Morning - Do Not Fly A Drone Over Your Opponent's Practice Facility

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), they discuss the Canada Soccer Olympic controversy (6:00), they hear from Canucks president Jim Rutherford (18:00), plus the boys talk the tax advantage for US NHL teams with The Athletic's Dan Robson (30:19).  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-d This one is hit high and deep to center. And Garceau's got another one. Chances are, at least Guerrero and Bichette are going to walk. And then where are you? A member of Canada's staff used a drone to record their practice on Monday. I think that guy's a spy. Well, of course he's a spy. You just saw him go through spy school. Good morning, Vancouver.

Six o'clock on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. This is Alfred. It is Brough. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. This is Alfred. It is Brough. It is Sportsnet 650. We are coming to you live from the Kintex Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning.

Adog, good morning to you. Good morning. Laddie, good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Alfred and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Pacific Honda, North Vancouver's premier destination for Honda vehicle sales and service. You can visit them online at Pacific Honda dot com. We are in our one of the program.

Our one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling. They recycle. You get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews.

So, Rafi, what are you waiting for? Kintec, that's what you're waiting for. Wednesday's show, the guest list begins at 6.30 with Dan Robson of The Athletic. We're going to talk taxes with Dan. Figured we'd get some real juicy, meaty content right off the hop. Dan has a piece in The Athletic titled, Anywhere But Canada, How a Tax ruling could hobble

Pro teams north of the border I haven't heard about this Jason Is there a tax discrepancy between Canada and some American states No you haven't heard about this John Tavares being in Hot water with the CRA What does CRA even stand for

Well that is the Canadian version of the IRS And John Tavares So What does CRA even stand for? Okay. Well, that is the Canadian version of the IRS. And John Tavares. Now do IRS. So, okay. The Internal Revenue Service. They are in charge of taxes. And now taxes. Anyway, we'll talk to Dan Robson about this.

Talk to Dan Robson about this. John Tavares is involved in a case with CRA. The CRA says he owes more money and John Tavares says, no, I don't. And how this ruling goes and why this ruling is even a thing right now, or this case is even a thing right now could determine, well, let's put it this way. It could further give an advantage to the Americans when it comes to signing free agents. So Dan Robson at 6.30 from The Athletic is going to join the program.

7 o'clock, Nick Shook from NFL.com. NFL training camps are now all officially open and underway. I'm going to do a QB carousel with Nick at 7 o'clock. I want to know, is Aaron Rodgers ready to play football? Is he good to go? Is his mind in the game? He showed up the other day. He did.

Yeah, good for him. He decided to come back from Egypt. He's like, I'll play some football. I want to know about Caleb Williams. He was dressed kind of like a hippie. Yeah. Is that his thing now? I don't know what his thing is now.

I didn't know what his thing was before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His thing can be a new thing every week. He feels like one of those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His thing can be a new thing every week. He feels like one of those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like next week he could show up dressed as a Sherpa. We'd be like, okay, that's his thing now. So Nick Shook.

Yeah, do some Sherping. Yeah, he's a Sherp guy now. So Nick Shook, it's 7 o'clock. I want to ask about Caleb Williams. I want to know about a lot of different quarterbacks, but we'll begin with Aaron Rodgers. That's 730. Dan Shulman, normally the play-by-play voice of the Blue Jays,

but I think we've exercised all the Blue Jays talk we need to on this show. All due respect, Laddie. How dare you? And Tiedemann going for Tommy John evaluation. I think we're going to put the Blue Jays on the back burner. We're going to talk some Canadian hoops with Dan Shulman. He'll be on the call for CBC when the Canadian men get things underway for real. Speaking of the Aaron Rodgers, what's up with Aaron Rodgers? I've got to ask him what's up with Jamal Murray.

Because Jamal Murray has almost been a non-factor in the early days of this Canada camp. Is he hurt? He must be, right? I kind of wonder if, because he was coming off a pretty big injury last year. He only played 58 games this year. He had hamstring and shin injuries. He was kind of hobbled during the playoffs. Didn't they say he missed a game for personal reasons?

Yeah. He's also got a contract extension looming. The general manager in Denver, Calvin Booth, has been talking about it, that they want to try and start talking about that as soon as the Olympics are done. Yeah, I mean, he needs to be front and center for this team. He's one of the big reasons why Canada is a medal contender in this because everyone's like, look at Canada's backcourt, right? Like, you know, if SGA plays and Jamal doesn't,

you're still kind of like, well, SGA's still pretty good, but if they both play together, that's even better. So Dan Shulman's going to join us at 7.30 to talk some Canadian hoops ahead of the Olympics. 8 o'clock, Thomas Drance from The Athletic. So he's written about Daniel Sprong as we continue the third day of uninterrupted Daniel Sprong discourse here on Sportsnet 650.

Didn't he just have a sit-down interview where we were not supposed to say this? Yes. Or was this, okay, he had a sit-down interview or not a sit-down, an interview with Rick Tockett. So he might have some stuff coming from that as well. So Drance is going to join us at 8 for your Canucks talk for the day. 7.30, Dan Shulman. 7 o'clock,

Nick Shook from NFL.com and 6.30, Dan Robson from The Athletic, where we are giving away tickets yet again to see Billy Idol and Platinum Blonde, your 80s extravaganza on July 30th at Rogers Arena. If you want tickets, there's only one way to get them. Actually, there's multiple

ways to get them, but here, there's only one way to get them. Actually, there's multiple ways to get them, but here there's only one way to get them. I mean, you can buy them, of course. You can buy them. If you wanted to. There's probably like some sort of bartering system on Facebook where you can trade them for old glassware or something. But if you want to win them on the Halford and Brough show, Dunbar Lumber text line is 650-650. WWL, what did you learn over the last 24 hours in sports? Hashtag it WWLL put a ticket emoji into your

text make the what we learned good because this is a contest not a giveaway and you could win tickets to see Billy Idol and Platinum Blonde on July 30th at Rogers Arena again text line 650 650 that's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened?

You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. Just days ahead of the start of the Olympics, 2024 Summer Games in Paris, the Canadian women's soccer team has been rocked by scandal. A drone scandal.

Overnight and early stages of this morning, the Canadian Olympic Committee announced that women's soccer coach Bev Priestman has removed herself from Thursday's Olympic Games opener against New Zealand after a cheating scandal in which Canada

was revealed to have sent a drone over the New Zealand practice not once, but twice in the past week. Is that not allowed? That is not allowed. And why would they be spying on the New Zealand practice? They're in the group.

They open against New Zealand. Right, and they'd be spying on what? Tactics, lineup formation, set pieces. Yeah, okay. Not an entirely uncommon practice. The drones is an uncommon thing, but there have been longstanding scandals and incidents of coaches trying to get some sort of tactical upper hand

by wearing a fake mustache and sitting in the stands with a cap on, trying to take it. I remember Marcelo Bielsa, when he was at Leeds, he talked about this quite openly because he said in certain communities of the coaching realm, this is kind of like something that they did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was understood as being like dark arts and underhanded and everything. But this obviously takes it to a whole new level because flying a drone twice

over a visiting team's practice and training session is highly frowned upon. So I have a real, real curiosity about this because the Canadian Olympic Committee released a statement on the drone incident and it named names. And it said, number one, Joseph Lombardi. He, they called him an unaccredited analyst with Canada soccer is being removed from the Canadian Olympic team and will be sent home immediately. And then Jasmine Mander, an assistant coach to whom Mr. Lombardi reports to is being removed from the team and will be sent home immediately and then it says the canadian olympic committee remember

this is the canadian olympic committee this is in the ioc this is the canadian saying this has accepted the decision of head coach bev priestman to remove herself from coaching the match against new Zealand on July 25th. And then finally said Canada soccer staff will undergo mandatory ethics training, which is hilarious. So my big question with this is what did Bev

Priestman know about this? Because this reminds me of the scene from the Godfather when they're, you know, Congress is grilling them and they're, they're interviewing the soldier and they're going, you know, did the family have a lot of buffers? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, the family had a lot of buffers, right? Because Bev Priestman, even though she's kind of like, the way she makes it sound is like she's extending an olive branch to New Zealand and going like, oh, I'm shocked this happened and I'm embarrassed this happened. And, you know, to try and make it better, I will sit out the match against New Zealand.

But my question is, do Beb Priestman know about this? Because it seems like this Joseph Lombardi guy, he's unaccredited. I don't even know what that means. What, he doesn't have like an ID or something like that? He's being removed. And then of course the assistant coach to whom Mr. Lombardi reports to is also being removed. But like, doesn't Jasmine Mander report to Bev Priestman?

Well, to be fair, to the comments that, from the statement that you were alluding to, there's nothing that really distances her that she says publicly. That's what I'm saying, right? Just hold on. I don't even think that they're going to try and distance her from this. I think that sanctions are coming down further from the IOC. And don't forget, FIFA is also going to be involved in this

as the governing body of soccer globally. And I got a feeling that this is the Canadian Olympic Committee trying to take a first step, not in distancing themselves, but in trying to levy a punishment in the hopes that there won't be more severe punishment. It's a pretty good punishment, right? It's a pretty good punishment. Joseph Lombardi, who I think very foolishly is trying to be described as an unaccredited analyst.

When he's a soldier. Right. He's a soldier. But he's also a soldier. In mafia terms. Yes, but imagine the mafia had a website and he was prominently displayed on the mafia's website. Imagine the mafia did have a website. Mafia.com.

Hey, welcome. Canada Soccer did not take the logical step of scrubbing him from their website because if you go right now, Joseph Lombardi has a very, very prominent and public page highlighting all of the things that he's done for the Canadian women's program at the senior and youth levels. As soon as I saw unaccredited, I was like, we are distancing ourselves from this guy as quickly as possible. We don't know who he is.

Not sure how he got in here. Do you think it was a bad call that on the website he bragged about his drone ability? I was going to say, they should remove the part about how he's a drone. His staff photo is just him

with an Xbox controller. I got this. Anyway, this is really embarrassing for Canada. It's horrible. Can they get disqualified? They're the defending Olympic gold medalists, right? But can they get disqualified for this? the defending Olympic gold medalists, right?

But can they get disqualified for this? I don't think so. Not for this. Okay, I have no idea what the punishments will be because here's the thing. I suppose it's possible. The IOC loves to cloak itself in the integrity and honesty and purity

of what Olympic sport is supposed to be. Right. That's why there's all these endless, you know, that's why doping scandals exist because the IOC wants to hold itself up as this paragon of, this is the most pure and honest, uh,

motive sport on the planet. And I would suggest that a cheating scandal involving drones ahead of the opener in which Canada would play the team they were spying on is go I mean here's the thing too this also rises to a very high level of prominence because of the team involved right this I mean women this is worldwide right if you go to ESPN it's in the top. Canadian coaches kicked out of Olympics for spy drone. Yeah, and I mean, that doesn't even really encapsulate the story because the Canadian Olympic Committee was the one that chose to withdraw the coaches.

And then, and the wording is important, accepted Priestman's decision. So what you were saying earlier is relevant. Like, she's trying to extend an olive branch of sorts being like, we screwed up. Here's what I will do as a self punishment. So here's Priestman's statement. On behalf of our entire team,

I first and foremost want to apologize to the players and staff at New Zealand football and to the players on team Canada. This does not represent the values that our team stands for. I am ultimately responsible for conduct in our program. Accordingly, to emphasize our team's commitment to integrity, I have decided to voluntarily withdraw from coaching the match on Thursday. In the spirit of accountability, I do this with the interests of both teams in mind and to ensure everyone feels that the sportsmanship of this game is upheld.

That's like laying it on a little thick to me. I mean, the only thing I could, and I agree with you, the only thing I could say is that they feel like they are profoundly screwed right now. Those are pretty serious steps to be taken by your own Olympic committee without an investigation coming from the IOC and FIFA. None of that says whether or not she knew this was going on. It does. No, it doesn't.

Yeah, come on. She's not voluntarily withdrawing herself from the opening match against New Zealand. It could kind of be read as like, I am. There is a 0% chance that she could go publicly and say, I didn't know about this and not have everyone laugh. It's the assistant coach. I know.

And a long-standing staffer. I mean, come on right there was an enormous there was an enormous amount of pressure on this group to perform at these games not only because they were coming in as the defending gold medal champions but priestman was feeling okay when she says sorry to cut you off here though what she says i am ultimately responsible for conduct in our program that's the type of thing that you would levy on like that's the type of thing you would levy on on a coach that maybe didn't know about it you'd be like well you should be responsible for the conduct in in in your program we've seen this in things like college football and college basketball, right?

If she, put it this way, if she didn't know this was happening, I'd have even more questions than what she was doing as head coach. Right. Okay, I'd be like, what's going on? But do you know when they use that thing, lack of institutional control,

they can, in the NCAA, they'll use that phrase to suspend coaches whose programs have kind of gone off the rails. Yeah. Like she doesn't, what I want to know is, and I want to get an answer from her, you know, like, did you know about this? And if, and if, and if you, and if you did know about this and this is blown up in your face, then, um, we appreciate this grand gesture that you seem to be thinking this is to step down from coaching this first game. And I want you to go home as well because if you knew about this,

that means that you endorsed it if not told your assistant coach to go do it and the assistant coach told the soldier to go do it. And then someone got whacked. I mean, and then a drone flew, right? Two people got whacked, technically speaking, because they sent home the assistant coach and the unaccredited analyst, Joseph Lombardi. Okay. The only reason where I was going with that

before you jumped in was, if you want to sort of paint the backstory to see how we got here, I mean, if you want to talk about would Priestman know or how much was she involved, she was under a lot of pressure going into this tournament. Because, I mean, everyone's talking to talk about would Priestman know or how much was she involved, she was under a lot of pressure going into this tournament because, I mean, everyone's talking about defending the gold medal, but you got to remember,

she took that team to the 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup and they were bad. They were out in the group stage. They didn't look good. There were people questioning the tactics. There was people wondering if she was the right person to be in charge anymore. And she was lucky it was in it was in new zealand and australia right so not a lot of people actually

back here watch the games because they were on a really inconvenient times there were a lot of articles out there if you want to go back and look at them talking about how bev priestman felt like she had lost her way and she was undergoing some stuff that maybe distracted her from being the coach that she thought she could be she's held the job for a long time. They had an opening match against an opponent that they were somewhat familiar with, but I think that they knew that if they were going to get through the group, that the most difficult match might be against the French, and the winnable matches were going to be against New Zealand and Colombia.

So there's a lot to unpack there, but all of it points to the next 48 hours, or really next 24 hours, being very uncomfortable for the Canadian women's soccer team. So Jim Rutherford went on the Bob McCown podcast and it was Bob McCown and John Shannon who were interviewing Jim Rutherford. And we've got a bunch of clips that we're going to play throughout the show. And why don't we play one now? Because I think this was interesting stuff. And Laddie, since you're the one that presses play on this audio, let's start with Jim Rutherford talking about Demko.

And the underlying thing here is that Demko was hurt for the playoffs and he's had injury issues before. And, you know, if the Canucks make the playoffs again next season, they're going to want him ready to roll, healthy, not injured, not overworked. And Jim Rutherford kind of came at it in a bit of a different way because we'd all been talking about uh well maybe he needs to play fewer games the backup needs to play more um but jim rutherford had another take on that and this is that i think there needs to be some adjustments in how he approaches uh um his workout he is uh he is probably the hardest working guy that I've ever seen. I mean, he's on the ice before the players come on the ice.

He's worked. He's probably put in enough work when he works directly with Ian Clark before the players come on the ice. So maybe between Thatcher and Ian and Rick Tockett, looking at how much work he's putting in in between games might be able to help him because I just think he pushes himself too hard. So that is obviously something that this show is accused of quite a lot. Too much, really.

Caring too much too. And just working too hard. Pushing ourselves to the brink some say. Pushing ourselves too hard. And I'm sure all the listeners listening right now, that's something that your bosses at your work accuse you of. And, and they ask, you know, why are you so tired once it comes to the weekend?

You know, are you working too hard? Maybe you need to take some more days off. Slow it down. And then you go to them, well, no, because I'm so competitive. I just want to be the best at everything. Every day Demko does the Rocky workout montage. Rutherford's like, yeah, let him stop. Turn off that music.

But this is a narrative that we're going to be seeing playing out throughout the entire season, like straight from training camp, because we all want to know that Debko's, first of all, recovered from that injury. I assume he will be. I mean, there were reports that he could have even been ready to go in the third round if the Canucks had made it that far. Although I sometimes wondered if the Canucks were just like using that

smoke screen. He better play way less games though, like really. Like he better play way less games, though, really. He better play way less games. Yeah, I think he will. And hopefully he won't play way less games because he's injured for those games. Hopefully it's because the Canucks are getting good performances from either Sealobs or Patera,

or they just bite the bullet in some way. Maybe they have such a good playoff cushion that they can allow a backup in there even if the backup isn't playing that well. But I really do think that this last season was, there was this constant fear that it was going to implode. You know, like throughout the year just because there still wasn't that trust in the group maybe. And they wanted to make sure that the good times didn't end prematurely. And it ended up maybe that Thatcher Demko played a little too much.

Yeah. We talked about being in prove it mode all season. Yeah. Right. Even when everyone was like, I think you guys proved it. And Casey DeSmith had some rough outings mid season. You know,

when he went into Minnesota and they, they lit them up there, I think that really affected the coaching staff's instincts on, on, on who to play. And if Demko was available and technically rested, I suppose, which would be like one day of rest, he was going to go in there. I don't like from that Rutherford quote, though.

He was more worried about the practice, like the level of intensity and practice. And we've heard Kevin Woodley come on the program and talk about the need for a third goalie. And it would be so nice to have a third roster goalie spot on these teams for moments like that, where Demko could just step aside, don't even practice, and have the two other goalies on the list. Demko could do his work with Ian Clark, and Ian Clark is a taskmaster, right? Like, he's going to make him work in those one-on-one sessions, but then for Demko to have to go and then practice again with the full team. Get 200 shots from his teammates.

Yeah, maybe that's a bit much. Hindsight being 2020 for last year, it was really a shame that they didn't have the faith in Seelops to bring him up in the regular season. When DeSmith sputtered a little bit, trying to go that route and see what they had there earlier in the year, because he didn't end up playing a regular season game until it was March or April.

I remember he came in against, I think it was Anaheim, I want to say. And then he actually did pretty well in the regular season to the point, and then you obviously saw in the playoffs what transpired. So, you know, again, it would have been really difficult for a team in prove-it mode to be like, we're going to try our third string goalie now. They're not going to do that. They're going to go back to the number

one. But with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been pretty good to see Seeloff play more games to try and stem those bad dismissed starts during the regular season. So we've got a few more clips to play throughout the show. There's one on Daniel Sprong and the addition of Daniel Sprong that I want to play. There's another on how he sells players on coming to Vancouver. And he mentions the lack of practice facility there. And then there's one on Elias Pettersson

where he talks about the experience that Pettersson gained in the playoffs, and he expects that Pettersson will take that experience and learn from it and be better next season if the Canucks make the playoffs. Other things just to note that we might not play this audio, but Rutherford said or accepted that the Sedins are effectively on Talkett's coaching

staff. Right. That might not reflect in their titles. Like they're still development guys and they'll still be down in Abbotsford working with the players on the Abbotsford Canucks as well. But he effectively said that, yeah, they're on talk at staff if he needs them. And obviously the Canucks need to figure out their power play. So I imagine the Sedins are going to be involved in the planning for that.

He credited the Sedins with helping Hoaglander with playing more responsibly. And he had a lot of really, really good things to say about Henrik and Daniel. He said they've been wanting to trade for DeBrusque for a few years now. Patrick Galvin was always like, can we get this guy? Can we get this guy?

If he's available, we got to get this guy. And Rutherford said he thinks DeBrusque is a 30 goal scorer if he takes his game up a notch. And then he added, he said losing to the Oilers was more of a quote experience than a quote failure. And he usually you have to go through that once or twice before you break through. At any rate, if you want to listen to the whole interview,

it's up on YouTube. You can just find it, Rutherford with Bob McCown and John Shannon. It's a good interview. We'll play a few more clips from that. Coming up next, we're going to talk to Dan Robson from The Athletic. We'll just spend a few minutes with Dan

talking about this case that John Tavares has against the CRA and how might it affect Canadian teams attracting free agents and also signing their own players to long-term contracts going forward. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. JanPro are the leaders in commercial cleaning and janitorial. If your workplace demands a clean environment, contact JanPro for a free, no obligation quote. Visit them online at janpro.ca. 6.32 on a Wednesday.

Happy Wednesday, everybody. Halford and Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough for the morning. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler. Pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling. they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver.

Okay, before we get to Dan Robson of The Athletic here, we have some potentially big news coming from the National Hockey League, specifically the Edmonton Oilers. According to Elliot Friedman, NHL insider for Sportsnet and rowing expert, Friedge tweeted out four minutes ago, quote, hearing the Edmonton Oilers will hire Stan Bowman as their new general manager today. Media conference to be held sometime this morning. So Stan Bowman, of course, has been out of work and out of hockey for close to three years following July 24th, two weeks after he was officially reinstated,

Stan Bowman appears to be on his way to becoming the next general manager of the Edmonton Oilers. Yeah, we focused a lot of our talk on this topic on Joel Quenville because he's in the same situation as Stan Bowman. He was reinstated and he's allowed to sign a contract with an NHL team. But, you know, Joel Quenville, we talked about whether or not, you know, he'd be up for the Columbus job.

And we said, probably not because they went through the whole Mike Babcock experience and they ended up hiring Dean Everson. But we never really wondered, I don't think, not together, we never really wondered, I don't think, not together, we never really wondered if Stan Bowman might be up for a GM job and then with Ken Holland leaving, retiring, I suppose. I don't know if he's announced fully retiring,

but anyway, he's leaving the Edmonton Oilers. Jeff Jackson is the president of hockey ops there and he's chosen Stan Bowman. And we'll see what the reaction is. We should also probably not forget that there are a lot of people in Chicago that were not happy with the job that Stan Bowman was doing when he left the organization. Yeah, the Kyle Beach situation aside,

there were a lot of people that just didn't like the work, like you were saying, like the contracts, the Seabrookok contract a lot of the moves that he made um trading away or like there was just a bunch of moves that they weren't happy with that a lot of people saw kind of frittered away the end of the cane and taves era and saw them eventually go with a team that was like limping out and not in the playoff picture. So I think it's a very, very... Now, here's the thing. Surprising might not be the right word because as I kind of dug into it during the break

when we heard about this, there were reports coming out of Edmonton that Bowman was on the radar and that Jeff Jackson had recently gone on a podcast and said that the general manager decision was going to be made in the coming days. And a lot of people started connecting the dots within Edmonton.

I would say shock and surprise more because anyone that was going to hire Stan Bowman or Joel Quenville was going to undergo a lot of public scrutiny and who was going to be the one to take that plunge and take that leap, and it's Edmonton. Let's talk to Dan Robson now about the article he's got up on The Athletic. Good morning, Dan. How are you? I'm great. Good morning.

So I tried to explain this story to my colleagues and it did not go very well. You know, it was like, what's the CRA? And I started to wonder if any of these guys have paid taxes before. Can you explain what your story is about and how this could affect Canadian teams going forward? Yeah, I'll do it in the layman's terms.

I mean, I had to have everything dumbed down for me by putting the experts I spoke to because this is not my forte. So I'll do my best in that regard. Obviously, there's a lot of conversation about tax rates and how they affect Canadian teams. So that's sort of the context that we're looking in terms of comparison to less tax rates with like markets with less tax than Canadian markets have. So that's sort of the context that sits above everything. Now, I look specifically at the John Tavares case, in which the Canadian Revenue Agency has come to him and said he owes a little over $8 million,

going back to a bonus he signed when he first joined the Toronto Maple Leafs back in 2018. And that reassessment is sort of the heart of what I'm looking at in the story and what the implications for that reassessment could be for the NHL at large or for Canadian teams, the NHL at large, and professional teams like the Blue Jays and the Raptors, because what is being called into question here is a provision in the Canada-U.S. tax treaty, which effectively allows for a player coming from, as a tax resident of the U.S., coming to Canada to pay less tax on a bonus that they would receive. That's sort of the nutshell version of the story. Okay. So is this, so tell us about the bonus, because I know that that's at the heart of it.

And there's a decision to be made between whether that bonus is a bonus for working the most implications for how Canadian teams will sign players in the future if the CRA is successful in this challenge to John Tavares, but really effectively a challenge to the U.S.-Canada tax treaty. That's really the issue that's being questioned. So we're not looking at, you know, did John Tavares, like, you know, try to skirt taxes and not do anything. What he used was actually a provision that most professional athletes use when they have this signing bonus structure coming to Canada.

So what's being asked by the CRA and what's going to be challenged and eventually decided in court is whether or not a bonus is an inducement to sign a contract, which is what's allowed for under the treaty, in which case the country that the player is going to gets taxed 15% of that bonus and the rest of that tax is paid in the state or place that they're coming from, which is generally a lower tax rate. So that's how it's interpreted by many people right now and how it's been interpreted for all these contracts. But what the CRA is saying is because the bonus is tied to multiple factors, like if you don't show up to play, you've got to pay some of that bonus back. If you retire early, you've got to pay some of that bonus back.

So because there's factors involved that really are tied to the execution of that contract, they're saying it's actually pay for service as opposed to a bonus to sign the contract. And if it's pay for service, it's effectively salary, which is then not sort of protected under this treaty that the US and Canada have come together with. Is it just the first year of the contract bonus? Or is it because a lot of contracts are like, you know, every year it has a bonus. Right. So in John Tavares' case, it's the first year of the bonus because he was a resident,

a tax resident of New York at the time because he just signed the contract in Toronto on July 1st. He signed it in 2018. He was still, according to his lawyers, living in New York at that time. So, and he had been a tax resident of the US the entire time he was playing for the Islanders. He's paying all his taxes to the United States at that time and to New York. So when he came to Canada, obviously that's September when he joined the Leafs and played after, he subsequently became a tax resident of Canada. So every year after that, on his massive bonus, his structure is obviously a large bonus with a small salary. He's paid Canadian taxes on that.

So it's in 2019 forward. He's paid his Canadian taxes to the CRA. He did not have the benefit. In this case, it's just the first year of that contract. But what this calls into question is how bonuses are taxed moving forward at large. So a player who's a tax resident of, say, Arizona, living and playing for Toronto, they might have a large bonus. And then the question is, is that bonus taxed in Arizona, or is that then taxed as salary? In which case, part of their salary is then taxable as salary, which is then taxed in, it's still taxed in the US, but it's also taxed in Canada as a whole treatment. So effectively, after a bunch of math variables

come together, they end up paying more tax on it. So that's the big question. So is this having an impact already? Because the case hasn't been determined, but I imagine there are players out there that are like, well, I don't want to have my money clawed back a few years later if I go about my taxes the same way Tavares did. And then all of a sudden the CRA rules against Tavares. And then all, you know, I'm in the same boat? That's the question. I mean, it's not clear, obviously, if it's having a direct impact. I spoke with some wealth managers and others that are involved in this thing. You know, we're all keeping an eye on this. Taxes in general are obviously an issue that come up every time

a player is looking to sign with a Canadian team or a market with a higher tax rate. But the scrutiny that's being placed on this, I've been told, obviously has some element of concern. Like, where is this going to go? I mean, the issue right now, too, is that John has had to pay this money up front or he'd be paying interest on it. So $8 million tax bill he gets, and then that's $8 million because he already had to pay $1.2 million of interest on what they're saying he owed. If you don't pay immediately, that accrues. So it continues to go up by 10% right now in Canada. So effectively he's got to pay this up front or he's going to keep owing more and more money.

And if he loses, he's going to owe even more money. So it's sort of like, even as it plays out, there's a penalty. So there's a bit of, you know, I think anybody paying attention to this, obviously would, you know, that some red flags would go up. Is there a bigger picture to this for CRA?

Is this just about professional athletes? Because I know there are some tax issues involving the Toronto Blue Jays as well. Or is this bigger picture to do with other professionals, non-sports, who spend some time in the United States and Canada? It's a great question. It really is the bigger picture. I mean, obviously, athletes are, you know, famous, and they make headlines. And so and there's obviously a lot of money at stake there. So I mean, they've in it with John Tavares, they've gone after this case specifically. But there are other cases that we won't hear about that,

you know, involve higher high income earners coming to Canada that utilize this tax treaty. And so what's the question here is how it's applied, and that would apply to any taxpayer that utilizes this treaty. So often it's used for CEOs, high-income earners that are coming from another country into Canada to have a signing bonus attached to that deal to lower them to Canada. So there are wider implications beyond sport. But within sport, obviously, this is a commonly used provision that will have serious implications if it's successfully questioned and they have to sort of redefine or relook at what an inducement to sign means. Dan, it's a very interesting story.

And thank you for digging into it so we didn't have to. And thank you for explaining it to us. And thank you for taking the time out of your day to join us. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys. All right. That was Dan Robson

from The Athletic. Three thank yous. Yeah, three thank yous. That's good. Yeah, and I didn't even, there wasn't even a callback like you normally have. No. It's like, we'll talk about this later

when we find out what's happening. When we do more taxes. So there's a lot going on right now. There is a lot going on right now, believe it or not. These are supposed to be the dog days of summer. There's a cheating scandal involving the Canadian women's soccer team. Cheers to you, Bev Priestman.

So download the podcast when it's available after hour one if you missed that conversation. Thanks for the content, Bev. Thank you, Edmonton. There's going to be more to that story. The Edmonton Oilers have reportedly hired Stan Bowman. Not reportedly anymore. The team has officially announced it.

Okay, so there's going to be more to that story, including a possibly very interesting press conference involving Stan Bowman. I think the two questions, you could bring the same question to the Bev Priestman press conference and the Stan Bowman. And that is, what did you know about this? So Stan Bowman and Jeff Jackson are going to meet with the media today at 11 a.m. Edmonton time. That's 10 a.m. Our time. It's going to be streamed live on their website.

In a statement, Jackson said, I believe Stan's vast experience and proven success in this role together with the important work he has done in his time away from the game fits our goal of being best in class when it comes to all facets of our organization. Okay. Wow. That's facets of our organization. Okay. Wow. That's a very good statement. Yep. So we were talking about the interview that

Jim Rutherford, just to bounce around a little bit more, did with Bob McCowan yesterday. And I think this is an interesting quote. We're subject to talk about in the wake of our conversation with Dan Robson, because one of the challenges that Canadian teams have in keeping players, acquiring players through free agency, getting them to sign with the team essentially, is the tax situation. And, you know, it's not a positive for Canadian teams. So they have to sell these players in other ways. And Jim Rutherford was asked, how do you sell

players on signing with the Vancouver Canucks? You've got to, you've got to show to the players where the team's at, what we've got, where we think we can get to, and also the reasons why they would like to play in Vancouver. And we have a lot to sell. A wonderful city. We have an owner that gives us everything that we need.

The one thing we're short of right now is a practice rink, which we are making headway on that but we totally redid our dressing room we have a good coaching staff we have a good organization and uh and we we found out through free agency this year that there were a number of players that wanted to come and play in vancouver which was a real positive sign for us. The city sells itself, okay? Everybody's aware of the city. Everybody's aware of our fan base. And for people that weren't quite sure or needed to be reminded, when you look at our fan base, what they did during the playoffs that our building was electric and just great support from our fans. But when we, so those are the things that the players already know. And then, of course, our coach was coach of the year.

That's a big selling point where we have a very strong coaching staff. We have a very strong coaching staff. We have a very strong organization and we have some, we have enough players. Our core players are good enough that players understand that our team should contend. So one of the things that Dan Robson notes in his article is that, you know, the tax thing is significant and it's important. And it is for sure a factor when you're talking about millions of dollars in, you know, net pay that you're essentially getting.

Of course, it's a factor. But he also notes and talks to agents and financial planners and other experts that there are other factors like team competitiveness and how a player fits into a roster or even the appeal of playing for a team they grew up cheering for. And that was one of the things that led John Tavares to Toronto. And that was a trap by the CRA to get him. And he got him. But when you think about team competitiveness, how many times did we hear when the Canucks were down in the dumps, well, you know, if you

want to bring Jay Beagle to the team, then you got to overpay him, right? Yeah. And I remember always thinking like, no, you don't. You don't. You don't have to do that. You really don't.

But also how a player fits into a roster, I think is one of the things that honestly doesn't get discussed enough. And we saw that with the Elias Lindholm decision to go to Boston. And while he may have considered signing with the Canucks, you know, I think one of the big reasons he didn't ultimately was he wanted

to go somewhere and be a top six guy. He wanted to be a number one center. That's what he was in Calgary. He was the guy. He was the man there. He played on one of the best lines in the NHL there when Kachuk and Goudreau were still there. And he wants to go play with Marchand or Pasternak in Boston, in Vancouver. No disrespect to Dakota Joshua

and Connor Garland, but they're not Brad Marchand and they're not David Pasternak. He wants to be playing up in the lineup, and the Canucks deemed him a center, and they deemed JT Miller a better center than him, and Elias Pettersson, look at the commitment they've made financially to him. They're going to do everything they can to make sure

that Elias Pettersson is still a top center in the NHL. So with Elias, they were kind of like, well, you know, this is the way we see you. We'd love to still keep you. But really, you know, while money might have been a factor, and I'm sure it was a factor, role and his fit on the team was

an equally big one. Yeah, I mean if you want to look at it in a glass half full kind of way, it's part of the reason the Canucks made the move for Lindholm when they did early in the buying process was so that they could get an extended look and figure out what the fit

would be because there was a thought at the beginning that maybe as he gets a little bit older and we've seen other centers do it as they transition and start playing the wing I mean that's what Steve Stamkos has done right he started out as your traditional center and then slowly moved to the wing and it became pretty apparent with Talkett that he's like no this guy's a center so when that decision was made I think the writing was pretty much on the wall that the marriage wasn't going to be long, but they were going to have a fruitful regular season and playoff. And then like many other players that get the opportunity to go to free agency, he just

found a different fit. And it was like you said, it didn't have much to do with the market or the city or anything. It was just he wasn't going to be a 1C or a 2C in Vancouver. And that's fine. And at the end of the day, it costs a lot to get the rental in the door. But I think when we realized that Tockett saw Lindholm as a center, probably more importantly, Lindholm saw Lindholm as a center, Boston was the fit.

It was obvious. Everyone knew that he was going to Boston. Yeah, it was obvious. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with it. I think the most telling thing from Rutherford was that he was going to Boston. Yeah, it was obvious. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with it. I think the most telling thing from Rutherford was that he found out just how much in this free agent period that people wanted to come to Vancouver

because last year, last summer, I imagine it would have been a more difficult sell. They weren't good going into last summer. You didn't know exactly what they had. You knew Tuckett came aboard and had some success, but those were meaningless games. And it was a small sample size. And getting people on board, I think, probably would have been a more difficult task last summer.

At least this summer, you had proof of concept, where it's like, look, we've got the reigning coach of the year. We went to the second round of the playoffs. We were one win away from taking Edmonton out and possibly moving on really far further in the playoffs, we were one win away from taking Edmonton out and possibly moving on really far further in the playoffs. For wingers, you've got opportunities to play with some pretty good centers. It's a competitive group. And then all the other things you mentioned.

We're making headway on the practice facility. You can slide that in there at the end. We've been hearing that for a while, haven't we? A lot of headway. A lot of headway. A lot of headway. When are they going to actually do something?

I don't know. I don't know. I kind of... I asked a couple different guys that work the beat regularly. Have you heard anything at all following the end of year media availability?

And it was kind of crickets. It's in Rutherford's backyard. He's just building it there. Yeah. Everyone come over. Have a barbecue. Yeah. Have a good practice. Yeah. That'd be awesome. Imagine the practice facility was in his backyard. Just building it there. Everyone come over. Have a barbecue. Or practice. Yeah. That'd be awesome. Imagine the practice facility was in the backyard.

I mean, that is the one thing that... That would be funny. That is the one thing that they really do need to get done because, I mean, again, coming from Pittsburgh where they have this great setup in Cranberry. Well, Calgary's new arena's got the practice ring adjacent to the new arena in the bunker.

It's underground, right? It's underground. Can the Canucks just build theirs under the arena? Like, just dig a tunnel? That's what I was wondering, yeah. Yeah, just underground practice ring under the arena? Just under the arena. Feels like it might be a lot.

Come on. They can do it. I know as much about... What was the song in The Simpsons when Bart fell down the well? We're sending our love down the well. Yeah, yeah. All the way down. Dig up, stupid Bart got, fell down the well. Sending our love down the well. Yeah. All the way down.

Dig up, stupid. Okay. We got to go to break. When we come back, much more to come. I imagine there'll be lots on the, yes.

Nick Shook, NFL.com is our guest. Yeah. Coming up next. Yeah. I imagine we'll have more from Edmonton reactions on the Stan Bowman hiring. And I imagine we will hear at some point from someone involved with the Canadian women's soccer team. I don't know if Bev Priestman will speak publicly, but hopefully someone will be speaking

as we try and find out more and more about the drone spying incident in France. Nick Schuch coming up as we get into NFL training camps. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.