Halford & Brough in the Morning - Do The BC Lions Have A QB Controversy?

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

In hour one, Mike & Jason chat with 3DownNation's JC Abbott (:53) about what was a tough weekend for the BC Lions, plus they discuss the Young Stars tournament with Canucks Talk host & The Athletic Vancouver's Thomas Drance (26:45). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

702 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda. Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour two of the program.

JC Abbott from Three Down Nation is going to join us in a moment here for a little BC Lions talk. Before we get to that, Brough is going to tell you about the Kintec Studios. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studio. That's right. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, our feet, what are you waiting for? Kintec.

To the phone lines we go. JC Abbott joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, JC. How are you? I'm good. Let's start with the biggest decision of the weekend from the British Columbia Lions. Your thoughts on head coach Rick Campbell going from Nathan Rourke to Vernon Adams Jr. midway through that debacle of a game on Friday night at BC Place.

I was absolutely stunned by the decision by Rick Campbell. And frankly, I'm still trying to justify it to myself all these days Lager look I have no problem with them making a QB switch if they feel that Nathan wasn't playing well enough but the timing of it was extremely suspect right Nathan goes out he struggles in the first quarter he's one of five okay if you want to make a switch then go reg ahead but in that second quarter he's five and seven 105 yards and then his final series he marches the team down the field scrambles for a nine-yard touchdown that's his last play of the game guys Rick Campbell said afterwards he's looking for a spark for his team.

Well, if that's not a spark, what is? It seemed like he had finally turned around, found his rhythm. They had something going there. Yes, the defense walks out onto the field and gives up what was a pretty back-breaking touchdown to end the half. But your offense had figured something out I have no idea why you make the change at that stage and as much as I love VA and what he did early in the season you know that's a tough situation to be put in as a quarterback coming in cold halfway through a game and he looked like a guy who hadn't played in well over a month which he is right I

have no doubt that with more reps he can look a little bit better but you were not improving your quarterback situation with that move and frankly you risk damaging the confidence of both guys and upsetting your locker room with that type of move. What was the reaction from Rourke and Adams about the decision by Rick Campbell? They're both true professionals. Clearly, Rourke was a little bit disappointed, and VA was happy to be on the field, but both of them were also surprised by the move and admitted as much postgame. We talked to both quarterbacks and, you know, work was, you know, surprised he was pulled and definitely self-deprecating of his early performance. But even Adams admitted that when he got the tap on the shoulders five minutes into halftime, he was a little bit shocked and had to go right to warming up because he didn't expect that move to be made.

I don't think those two are going to be a source of controversy or a problem themselves. They handled this as well as could be expected, and Nathan made it a point of emphasis that VA has supported him through that transition. He's going to support VA if he's the starter or once he was inserted he had nothing but positive words to say about him and actually praised his teammates performance but neither of them were expecting to be placed in this situation in this game. Do you think Rick Campbell was kind of trying to make a point

that Vernon Adams is still very much a factor on this team and that Nathan Rourke isn't just going to get all the reps and get all the action because he's Nathan Rourke? Because it almost felt to me that the Lions were a little bit sensitive to this issue when Nathan Rourke was signed and was brought back they were very clear that Vernon Adams was still going to be a part of the team and in our conversation with Rick Campbell that we had on a few weeks ago he kind of bristled at the notion when I asked him is this all fair to Vernon Adams? Yeah, I think that's absolutely the case.

The team's in a bit of an awkward situation, right? It's basically unprecedented in CFL history that you had a guy who, at the time of the move, was the consensus MOP frontrunner, and you stick him on the bench. So Rick Campbell is trying to make a statement that, Hey, this is a two quarterback team that they're both leaders. He said as much post game, but he's overthinking it here in my opinion. Right. And I know that he's trying to show the locker room that they're both going

to be used, that he's not afraid to make that switch. But the switch was not needed in this moment or at the particular time when he decided to pull the trigger. I think it's just a situation that is just an odd one for a head coach to feel out, for a locker room to feel out when you have two quarterbacks of this caliber and the timing of the move was just not right. Let's continue exploring this because it's,

it might not necessarily be a QB controversy moving forward, but doing, I mean, the optics of it are. Like, I don't know how anyone else could look at it because now, and I don't know if Campbell thought about this, but you're also going into a bye week, which means this just lingers without any answers about who your starting quarterback is. Because you won't find that out until they take the field

against Hamilton on the 27th. In terms of further optics here, it's great if the idea, and I got some time for what Bruff's throwing out here about what he was trying to do statement-wise about it's not anyone's job and we're a two-quarterback team. How on earth do you do that and then not give

Vernon Adams Jr. a single rep with the first team throughout a week of practice and then throw him in at halftime with a tap on the shoulder? Pretty good point. Being like, go get him, kid! How does that happen? And the thing that really shocked me, guys, post-game was I asked Rick Campbell about how he was going to make the decision going forward and if this would be an open

competition in practice. And he was adamant that it will not be a competition. But he also said he has no idea who's going to be the starter yet but he alone will make the decision he provided no indication as to what that decision will be based on and that is the real concern for me going forward is the lines mostly through the character of those two quarterbacks have largely avoided a divided locker room up until this point but if you're starting to make quarterback switches and quarterback decisions without a provable metric without clear communication to a locker room about hey this is why we are making the switch

this guy was better in practice this week or this guy was better in the last game or whatever it may be a clear communication of who is going to be that guy then you're going to start to have factions in a locker room that say well well you pulled Rourke in the last game and you're not going to give VA the start this week you're not even going to give him reps in practice to me that's the tightrope that Rick Campbell is walking here once they come back from the bye he said he's going to make the decision as soon as possible at the start of the week he doesn't want to mess with these guys or their confidence but if you're not going to split the reps in practice and have their actual play on the field do the talking, what does that do to all the other players on the team? JC, is it fair to say that the Lions could use this bye week coming up?

Their next game isn't until Friday, September 27th. I'm just thinking about all that this team has been through in the last, what, month? Bringing back Rourke, bringing back Betts, snapping a five-game losing streak, going into Montreal and getting a big win, having to go to Victoria. There's just been a lot of non-routine stuff.

I just wonder if they could use some time to, for lack of a better way of saying it, pull themselves together. Absolutely. As long as they come back from it stronger. Because again, the last time the Lions came off a bye was part of that five-game losing streak. I think it's well-timed right now for them to figure some things out, for them to get healthy, especially, right? If you can get Jarrell Broxton back, coming back off this bye week, then that's a huge addition to the offensive line. That sorts out some major issues that sort of got maybe pushed to the side with the quarterback switch. There's other guys who were banged up coming out of that game. Gary Peters was in the injury tent a ton.

You've got Ben Halagic on the sidelines right now. You've got a whole bunch of major names and stars who could use this time to get healthy and come back for the stretch run. So that is well-timed in that sense. But they've got to be able to come together and make the right decisions for the team and come out of the bye week strong

because this stretch run, first in the West is still up for grabs, but you didn't do yourselves any favor with that loss to Toronto. You wasted an opportunity to get a leg up on Winnipeg and everybody is right in the mix right now. JC, this was

great, man. Thanks for taking the time to do it. We really appreciate it. Enjoy a well-deserved rest week, a bye week. We'll do this again as we get closer to that Hamilton game on the 27th. Sounds great, guys. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, thanks for coming on. We appreciate it. That's JC Abbott from Three Down nation bc lions beat reporter here on the alfred and brough show on sportsnet 650 i love that the lions keep churning out content week after week now we

got a quarterback controversy do do we have it we officially have one now right he stepped right into it yeah i mean i i didn't even know the schedule i mean i know that you got a bye week this just lingers there until the 27th like you don't even get an answer on who your starting quarterback is because you don't have anyone to start for two weeks this was always the potential when they brought back rourke that he wouldn't i didn't think so i did not think there was a potential was there if that rourke hadn't played meaningful games for a long time it comes back i know there's this lovely syrupy narrative out there that you can't lose a job to injury, but you absolutely can. And it's happened countless times in sports and it's not fair and it sucks, but also life is not fair and life sometimes sucks. And that's what happened.

Adams got hurt. Rourke came back in an advantageous situation for the Lions where it didn't work in the nfl and they had a spot at quarterback open because their guy was hurt it happens i did not see i was shocked when it happened i was shocked when they brought him in i was watching the game on friday i'm like they're not really doing this i heard them say well nathan rourke's got his baseball cap on the sidelines i'm like well he probably just wanted to take his helmet off yeah did not think did yeah worn one of those they're very heavy it's very very tiring on your neck i did not think for a second that he would do it for a multitude of reasons the least of which was that the one good thing that rourke did in that game after really let's say it bad first half

was he scored a touchdown at the end of the first half he scampered in and got them on the board with their first major so i'm like okay let's see what happens to do that is i think you're on to something i don't know if it's exactly how you painted it but you're on to something about there was like more of a a point to be made than a game to be won if that makes i think i think that although he said it kind of like, I'm just trying to win the game. We just needed a spark. But I feel like there's been some awkwardness in the organization since the decision that was made because they kept Vernon Adams. Well, if that's the case, then they should have said Nathan Marks,

our starter, and Vernon Adams is our backup. And that's just the way that we're going to go. We made that decision. It's not fair. It's not right. It's not right. It's not easy, but it's a decision that we made, as opposed to this, which this is indecision. The decision is indecision because now I don't know what they're going to do.

I don't think there's a controversy in terms of who starts the next game. But now what happens – it's Nathan Rourke. It's going to be Nathan Rourke who's going to start against Hamilton. But that's not the question. But now everyone's going to be waiting to see, all right, if Nathan doesn't look great, when does V.A. come in there? It's the first sign of trouble. It's like, are you a two-quarterback team?

It's like, okay, he's not doing it. Let's get the other guy in there. And I just don't think it works. I don't think it works. And I think he's made a big mistake. I think it's not a smart move. And for the reasons that I pointed to, just the week of practice, if you have any intention of playing the guy who has not played since August the 1st,

he's been on the shelf for six weeks, and you don't give him any first team reps in the week leading up to the game in which you're thinking about playing him like that doesn't make any sense well that needs to be explained speaking of things that don't make any sense the nfl right now as a whole yeah very bizarre league doesn't make any sense the first two weeks um you know you open up whatever app you use to check the scores and there are at least three or four games on each slate where you're looking at them and you're like what survivor pools survivor pools between new england beating cincinnati in week one and then the raiders beating the ravens in week two

survivor pools are just obliterated across north america right and then lo and behold there you go the two and oh se Seattle Seahawks, who we need to talk about because that was a really interesting game. I thought that was, I know the Patriots are not the old Patriots. I thought that was a really impressive win. They went out there and they weren't going to have

Kenneth Walker III. Really good running back. They knew they weren't going to have him. And they still had issues with their O-line. They're certainly not feeling comfortable about their offensive line. And there were times in that game where New England led and they still found a way, despite

also making a few mistakes. Like there were some missed tackles in that game. There were some drops. There were a number of drops. I was doing some yelling at the TV, like, catch the ball, man. It's like right at you. Five drops. Five.

That's a lot. But Geno Smith kept his focused and played a hell of a game. DK Metcalf made a big play, got a touchdown. Jackson Smith and Jigma had a big game. DK Metcalf made a big play, got a touchdown. Jackson Smith and Jigma had a big game. And then Tyler Lockett, who statistically didn't have a big game, made the clutch plays when he needed to. Two weeks in a row he's done that. Yeah. And I think, look, some people will say, and it's fair enough, I get it, I'll say it. The opponents have not been all that great. I mean, you had Denver coming into Seattle with Bo Nix, who that's a really tough

assignment for Bo Nix. So it's yesterday for Bo Nix. Well, that's a, but that's the thing, right? Like you, you start to wonder, you know, you know, you know what New England did with Drake May. They were like, well, we've got a tough schedule.

Let's maybe like let Drake May sit for a bit. You know, maybe the Broncos should have done something similar with Bo Nix, like schedule. Let's maybe like let Drake may sit for a bit. You know, maybe the Broncos should have done something similar with Bo Nix, like going into Seattle and then Pittsburgh. Yep. Those are two tough opponents, but that's their problem. I don't care about them.

Let's talk about the Seahawks. I've lost my train of thought now, but like to be 2-0. 2-0 is 2-0. And have Miami coming in week three and Miami won't have Tua because of the concussion that he suffered. I think the Seahawks are like six and a half

point favorites. I realize that the Dolphins will still have Tyreek Hill and, you know, he can make an impact. Just put the ball in his hands, right? You're going to put him, send him on a screenplay, but if they can handle that, they should win that game to go to 3-0. So a couple takeaways from the weekend. One, I will say New England is a better team.

I don't know if they're much better, but they're definitely a better team than everyone thought they were going to be. Now, I'll say this. They play football like they were in the Big Ten about 30 years ago. Like, they run the ball. It's hilarious, actually. It's's old school really old school football so they ran it close to 40 times yesterday 36 times against the hawks and that's in an overtime game right so i mean that's a lot of carries they did they ran the ball 39 times against the bangles like they do not throw the ball so the

funniest stat of the weekend was uh wide receivers for the Patriots against the Seahawks caught a grand total of three passes. Yeah. Three for 19 yards. So you got the game plan. Like it's hard to play against a team that is that committed to running the ball and is good at it. Like they are not just doing three and out, three and out. Well, the Seahawks couldn't do it. The Seahawks tackling wasn't good.

But the Seahawks couldn't do it last year when pittsburgh came to town and ran the ball down their throats they didn't find a way to win that game but they found a way to win this one and i think a large part of it what well there's a couple things one the the love blocked field goal was huge that was a that was a game altering play right there gino smith if you look at it statistically that is one of the best passing games of his career. It's the most completions, 33, he's ever had in a 12-year career. He's never completed 33 balls. He didn't turn the ball around.

There should have been more, considering all the drops. Bad drops, too. So the stats on it, if the drops were caught, he would have been 38 of 44 passing for 400 yards. Like, that is an all world day. That's a, that's an elite level passing day in the NFL. And he was great.

It was very impressive after. And I'm going to be honest. I saw the offense in week one and I was like, this does not look good at all. If you look at the statistical days by Metcalf and JSN, they were great. So the Seahawks did a lot of good things. I think

that when the story of the season is told, that might end up being a more impressive win than what we think right now, because I think we think that the Patriots are not good at all. And I think the Patriots might end up being much more competitive and a better team. You think so? By the end of this year, yeah.

Because I think when you play that style of football, every game's going to be like 2017, 23-20, 19-16, like those kind of games. So I know we had this conversation with Mike Tanier, but I'll throw it out to you and maybe even the listeners. In the wake of Christian McCaffrey's injury and then the Niners lose to Minnesota and with the Pittsburgh Steelers and TJ Watt being 2-0,

despite getting safe, well, a safe but effective quarterback play from Justin Fields. And then we've got Tyreek Hill coming to Seattle in week three. Who do you think is the most important or most Hill coming to Seattle in week three, who do you think is the most important or most effective or just best non quarterback in the NFL?

Because I think I just named three heavy candidates. You said the non Christian McCaffrey division, right? That's what we're seeing. I mean, I, I, I hate the Niners and if you're a Niners fan, accept it. Like, I hate them because they're good, right?

But Christian McCaffrey is a guy that I just love watching play. He is such an impressive player. They're a very different team when he's not in there. And that's partly because in the passing game, Purdy looks from a lot because it's like, check down, Charlie, like just dump off kind of stuff, right? Tyreek Hill's in that conversation. I'm going to be very curious to see what Mike McDaniel can scheme up for week three against the Seahawks, because the goal is obviously going to be get the ball in Tyreek's hands

as much as possible, while getting it out of Skyler Thompson's hands as quickly as possible. Yeah, just chuck it to him. But the Seahawks are also probably going to be like, you know what, I bet they're going to try and use Tyreek Hill. Yeah, and I think – Are you a defensive genius, Mike McDonald? He's stroking his little beard he's like i think i got it yeah i i mean look i think tyree kills in that conversation um i do think it's more difficult

for him to get the ball in his hands like mcafree because he's not lined up and playing out of the backfield uh on the defensive side of the football you know mike tannier mentioned it there's a handful of guys i think tj watt obviously like leads that conversation Miles Garrett is in that conversation too as a former defensive player of the year like guys in that threshold I saw the game that Aiden Hutchinson had for the Detroit Lions who by the way lost that game and have not looked super dominant they needed overtime to beat the Rams in week one at home. And then they lost to Baker Mayfield who now is the leading

MVP candidate in the NFL in week two. So that's a bit of a shaky start. But Hutchinson's a beast as well. But honestly, Justin Jefferson, people texting in. Jefferson got hurt on the weekend.

He did score the 98-yard touchdown. Joey Bosa, a few people texting in about that. Love the Bosa brothers yeah they're injury prone as well though i mean i think that when you're having this conversation it's christian mccaffrey's in a class by himself and then there's a bunch of other you think so yeah i do i think he's the biggest only because um of where he lines up right like it's more of a dual threat as a

running back that can catch passes like you can. Right? But, you know, there's a handful of guys that are in that conversation. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. We've got a couple of guests left. They're both Canucks related. Thomas Drance is going to join us from Penticton.

We'll talk to him about what happened up in the Young Stars tournament. We haven't talked too much about the actual games or the players, the Canucks are 2-0. That's good. Got a chance to go 3-0 today. I know people are curious about how

Lekker Amaki has looked, but I think the guy whose stock that might be rising the most in Penticton, at least according to Drance, is Atu Ratu. And maybe more of a realistic possibility for the Canucks lineup this season, but I don't know. We'll talk to Drance about that. And then Ed Willis is going to join us at

eight o'clock. Ed has a book coming out about the Vancouver Canucks and it's called Never Boring, which is a pretty good headline for the Canucks. You can't say they're always good, and you can't say they're always bad, but they're never boring. So lots of Canucks talk coming up

on the Halford & Brough Show. It is time now for the Canadian Football Report brought to you by Securian Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL. So we've spoken extensively today about the Lions-Argo stinker on Friday night. We'll move past that. Let's see what happened elsewhere

in the Canadian Football League over the weekend. On Saturday in Calgary, good old-fashioned tie. 1919, the CFL's second tie of the season. This time a barn burner between the Stamps and the Owls. The two teams also combined for, wait for it, 201 penalty yards. Ah, what a satisfying night of football. A tie and 200 penalty yards.

That was in Calgary on Saturday. Also on Saturday, Laddies Hamilton Tiger Cats, who the BC Lions will play next after their bye week, got their fourth win of the season with a 37-21 win over the Red Blacks of Ottawa. Two in a row, baby. Big game for Bo Levi Mitchell under center. Veteran QB, two touchdowns and nearly 300 yards passing in the win.

That was your Canadian Football Report brought to you by Securian Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL. And finally, finally, before we go to break, I need to tell you about JanPro, the leaders in commercial cleaning and janitorial. If your workplace demands a clean environment, contact JanPro for a free, no obligation quote,

visit them online at Jan pro.ca. Thomas Drance is coming up next on the Halford and Brough show on sports net six 50. And what we just have to call Thomas Drance erotica. Thomas Drance Erotica Corsi Thomas Grant's Erotica Expect the Goals Thomas Grant's Erotica

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Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. So the Canucks are 2-0 at the Young Stars Tournament this weekend. Rolls on today.

They got a game this afternoon. It's the finale for the Canucks. A chance to go 3-0 against the hated Calgary Flames prospects. Ooh, I hate their prospects. Vancouver, Calgary, 2.30 p.m. our time. You can hear it all right here on Sportsnet 650. Our next guest is joining us live on location. Our Young Stars insider, Thomas Dranitz, here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Our next guest is joining us live on location. Our young stars insider Thomas Drance here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650.

Morning Drancer. How are you? Gentlemen. Good morning. Yeah. Up here in sunny Penticton spending most of my time at a rink. Classic. Beautiful.

Yeah. And I'll be here for 10 days. Like it's 10 days in this cheery double queen bedroom at the Fairfield on Eckhart because of course the Canucks do main camp here. So yeah, great way to kick off the season. Do you just put your luggage on the other bed or do you like

to use both of them? Oh, I'm so, so unpacked. I'm so unpacked that I moved in unpacked and then I went back down to the lobby and I was like, hey, I'm here for so unpacked that I moved in, I moved in unpacked, and then I went back down to the lobby and I was like, hey, I'm here for so long, can I take five more hangers? You're introducing yourself to everyone in the hotel?

Hi, I'm Tom, I'll be living here for a couple weeks. 100%. Okay, your standout player so far through two games for the Vancouver Canucks would be atu ratu i think atu ratu um you know there's the fact is is that it could be any of max atu ratu or our steep baines like there was there's a sense around baines for example when you watch him at this tournament that um you know, I think if he was going 100%, he could dominate at a ridiculous rate.

You know, these guys are guys with multiple years of pro experience. Baines was a AHL All-Star last season, right? They have the look of like a ringer. Do you know, did you guys ever play like softball or anything?

Yeah. A guy who played lefty of one at your buddy's office would like come out every couple of weeks just because he liked drinking. And it was just hilarious. Go full tilt, but every now and then when you like really needed a run, you just went out of the park. Jantz, we're going to call you back, and your line is a little garbled. A little garbled right now.

Thomas Jantz from The Athletic Vancouver and Canucks talk here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. I think he was comparing Baines to a softball ringer. I couldn't tell. I think that's where he was going with that, though. Yeah. We will talk to Thomas Jantz. I mean, he must have a landline. He lives there lives there now right so hopefully you can call him right at the hotel

and we'll get back to him um i have again i didn't watch a ton of the young stars this weekend there was a lot on the sporting ledger this weekend right and uh they so the the messages that we were getting and the feedback that we were getting was that um they loaded up the top line with Baines, Ratu, and like, oh, by the way, pronunciation, Lekker-Mackie. There's no Lekker-Ruh. Right. It's Lekker-Mackie. Yeah, yeah. I saw that too.

And not like we're going to adhere to this pronunciation, but I thought it was worth putting out there. Okay, Dranzer, I think you were comparing Baines to a softball ringer. Yeah, a softball ringer. Okay. Like that's sort of the level that those three players are at in this tournament the difference being that ratu's 21 right like ratu's one year older than leckermacky right so you know he's he's at a different age so the fact that he looks like that the fact that

he's also at that level like sasson's 24 baines is you know mid-20s as well ratu's a little more age appropriate but has that same sort of vibe to him that same level of preparedness and and to me that's actually pretty exciting right like it means a little bit more to me when i evaluate players in a pretty difficult sort of environment to do so given the disparity between ages and experience levels that are sort of on display in penticton so so he'd sort of be to do so given the disparity between ages and experience levels that are sort of on display in penticton so so he'd sort of be my pick you could pick anyone from that top line they've been phenomenal uh in terms of less experienced players on on the canucks roster you know we've seen some great stuff from leckermackie especially carrying the puck. You know, he is slight, right?

Like he is slight from a, is he NHL ready perspective? He's a little slight. And I do think he looks super dynamic when carrying the puck downhill, but there's some stuff in terms of supporting the buildup that, that, you know, I think is going to take some work. Just looks like a guy who's probably going to need some time, but remains the top prospect in this organization. And then I've really liked Elias Pettersson.

Or, sorry, Elias Pettersson. That's how you're going to differentiate it, right? No, no, that's actually, in fact, how he says it, right? He's Elias Pettersson. So we do have a slight differentiation in pronunciation. His team needs more John Smiths. It's not like the Canadians or the Americans. It's not an anti-European thing.

It's just like I'm tired of names that I can't pronounce. Well, with Elias Pettersson and Elias Pettersson, it's like having a John Smith and a Jan Smith, right? a yawn smith right um so um he anyway i i really liked his game scored a goal yesterday but he's he's looked really good man like he's he's even looked really mature at little things like fronting flanker shooters on the penalty kill like he looks great at that um so yeah i mean that's a that's a pretty unique profile to have in a 20 year old defenseman about to play his first year of a first full year anyway of north american pro hockey i'm not had an interesting conversation with ratu and you can read this on

sportsnet.ca as well um ratu was saying that he's actually had a few light bulb moments when it comes to skating. And I don't know if he did a scrum or if this was just IMAC talking to him, but, you know, he thinks that his skating has improved, whether it's to the level it needs to be yet. He wouldn't say, but how has he looked to you? And where do you think if he were to play with the Canucks this season, he would play?

Well, this is where I think the Ratu conversation gets interesting, because Ratu does look faster than me. And he definitely has pro details, right? But if I watch him play, I think, man, I think this guy has a shot. If you were to audition him as a third-line winger, I think this guy has a shot. If you were to audition him as like a third line winger, I think this guy has a shot to be, and I'm not saying he's going to do it, especially with the depth that the Canucks have. But if you were looking for like a bottom six winger,

a left bottom six left winger to play with Suter and Daniel Sprong on the fourth line or whatever, like, I think, I think he'd be a candidate to be able to do that and do it well right now, right now right now but he's a really good face-off guy and the connects don't have a lot of center depth and we know how valuable it is to have centermen and it's easier for a player to you know at the age of 22 sort of an organization decides hey you're a winger and move him to the wing than it

is to be like you're a winger now and then wait we want you to move back to center and i think the club well i know the club is intent on you know giving him as much runway as possible at center as opposed to where i think he'd be more nhl ready today which would be on the way um so that's sort of an interesting wrinkle here is you know i think they're going to go into main camp and treat him like a center and if that means that he spends more time in the american league i think they're comfortable with that so um yeah i mean ratu i think has improved as a skater whether he's improved enough as a skater to stick in the middle of the ice right is is really the question because that's a higher bar.

But I think his skating is already at a level where he could play in the NHL and be effective in the NHL. It's just maybe on the wing as opposed to in the middle. So how do you think they go into camp in terms of lines and, you know, who's going to play with who? Do you think they're going to give guys like Ratu and Lekarimaki opportunities with, you know, veterans that are definitely going to play with who do you think they're going to give guys like ratu and lecker amaki opportunities with you know veterans that are definitely going to make the team or are they going to are they going to keep the veterans together and have the kids playing with themselves

yeah i uh the kids playing with themselves yeah they'll be supervised don't worry yeah okay um i think the so hard for me to know i haven't had a chance to chat with rick tocket while i've been up here but the sort of thing that i'd monitor or or note here is when they went into camp last season right um it was kind of duos with a tryout youngster on each line to open camp so we had our steep baines with i think it was miller and besser right we had um you know i can't remember one of the other young guys was playing with like it was i think it was pod coles in open camp or whatever it was with you know petterson and right i think it was hoglatter right so they had young guys interspersed across their lineup but the only training camp connects training camp

that we've seen rick talk it run to this point um you know i i wouldn't be stunned by any means if we saw something similar especially because you know i think we have a decent sense of of three duos that you know in talk it's mind's eye he's going to enter this season with in terms of his forward lines right like i think we have a good sense that it's going to be garland and joshua on the third line miller and besser on the top and that de brusque is going to play with petterson right so we sort of have those duos now could we see Ratu start playing between Garland and Joshua while Suter and Bluger play elsewhere? Sure. Could we see Baines start with Miller and Besser or with Dabrowski and Patterson and LeKarimaki start with one of the others?

That wouldn't stun me by any means. I think we probably will see sort of a mix you'll you'll store sort of my guess would be we'd start to see sort of the contours of what vancouver's lineup is going to be but but perhaps with duos and then some young players you know intermix to test their readiness um and and to give them an opportunity to to make it that sort of competitive camp that teams often talk about and that I know the Canucks want to prioritize. What is the main thing that this Young Stars tournament accomplishes?

Yeah, I mean, it gets the season started off right. You've got this sort of opportunity to evaluate players in a different type of environment. It's a challenging environment right like if you're the flames team for example the connects will play in a couple hours um has eight guys that were picked in 2024 right so that's eight teenagers right eight eight players who um you know have never played played pro hockey and you know whether it was their first game lining up against guys like brad lambert and chivrakov out of winnipeg or uh the game that they won against the oilers where you've got max of matt savoy right or today where you've got you

know vancouver's sort of collection of of uh softball ringers um you know that's an eye-opening experience in terms of the level of play right, if you're planning to stream that Canucks game on Canucks.com today or, you know, listen to Batch, call it on Sportsnet 650, like, the amount of times that an experienced pro just flat-out pickpockets an 18-year-old or a 19-year-old, like, as they're along the wall trying to clear the zone, right? Like, it's incredible 18 year old or a 19 year old, like as they're, as they're along the wall trying to, trying to clear the zone. Right. Like it's, it's incredible, right? Like it's incredible the level that these guys are at.

Like you've had these sequences where in the, in the first game the Canucks played like two Oilers youngsters, right. Are basically both actively engaged in a puck battle with Atu Ratu. And there's no chance, like there's no chance that they're taking the puck from him. Right. So that disparity in levels, I think, is a good thing for the players who are going to be at training camp for like a day or two to go through, especially in a competitive environment. Right. environment right so to to have that understanding to come in from being the best player on your ohl or whl or um you know q qmj hl team and then be like oh i'm the 15th best player on the ice right and and there's a hundred players here right i'm in in the middle of the pack and

that's not going to be enough because only like seven of these hundred players even at this level are going to make it to the nhl and have long careers right like even at this level so i think that's a good experience for players to go through uh you know in a beautiful spot in the world with all the player development staff around with the opportunity to make an impression on american league and NHL coaches and build that relationship. You know, plus it's fun for fans. Plus, it's a great spot to be at for hockey operations staff, for these teams as they kick off the season.

The Canucks have been super busy. Like, they've had massive, you know, sort of organizational meetings all week. You know, Rutherford, Alvin, everyone's here. Their suite at these prospect tournament games is packed, like to the brim. So, you know, I think there's a, I think it's just a smart way to kick off the season. And all of that said, you know, these teams all signed a two-year agreement

for this tournament to return. Well, this is year two. A new agreement will be needed. And, you know, I am curious to see what sort of happens next. Crowds have agreement will be needed um and you know i am curious to see what sort of happens next crowds have been good here but you know we've seen this tournament um go away in the past because some teams weren't as bought in or specifically the alberta teams were like why don't we do it in red deer yeah um and you know ken holland who is from vernon who set up the traverse tournament and who is no longer, pointedly no longer, the Edmonds-Neulers GM, is no longer in that seat.

And so, you know, this tournament has lost a huge supporter that works for one of the clubs. Sounds like all four of the teams want to keep doing it. I hope they do because I love it, selfishly. But, yeah, so we'll sort of see what the future holds for the Penticton Young Stars tournament. There's definitely going to need to be conversations and an extension worked out between the arena and Oakview Group

and the four teams themselves on the tail end of this. We're speaking to Thomas Drance from the Athletic Vancouver and Canucks Talk here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Obviously, training camp will also be in Penticton in a few days. You'll be up there for it.

So, too, will journeyman goalie Dylan Ferguson, who will be joining the Canucks on a PTO as they break camp. You want to take a stab on what this means for goals as the goalie drama turns, the latest development. Ferguson, and I guess there was also a report out there that Antti Ranta was being considered and possibly extended an invite that he eventually turned down Right, yeah, and sounds like

in Antiranta's case he just talked openly about being on a Zoom with Canucks staff, right, as he signed in Europe You know, the Ferguson thing, so the Canucks have an AHL goaltender named Jonathan Lemieux in addition to the names you're familiar with, right? Tolopilo, Ty Young, their draft pick, Demko, Seelovs. And then, you know, there's – anyway, with Ferguson, you have seven. You have seven bodies.

And so what does this tell you? Well, a training camp has three groups. Each group needs two goaltenders. So you need six goalies to go through training camp. You wouldn't really bring a PTO in if you had six goalies ready to go. So this tells you that the Canucks have one goalie that probably isn't going to be skating with any of the main groups when camp begins. And I don't think that's a surprise to anyone.

But I do think we should look at this as some level of confirmation, even if the club itself, you know, isn't going to confirm anything until they go through player medicals on Wednesday. Drancer, you're the best, buddy. Thanks a lot for doing this. We really appreciate it. I enjoy the remainder of your stay in Penticton.

I joked with someone in the text message in basket that you're getting your mail there now for the rest of the week. That's how long you're going to be in Penticton for. We'll do this again next week. All right, sounds good, week all right sounds good boys yeah just gonna go down to the front desk and pick up my amazon packages see you pal have fun uh thomas strance from the athletic vancouver now a full-fledged resident of penticton here on the halpern and brough show on sportsnet 650 uh if you're interested in this kind of stuff you should go read imax article where he spoke with Atu Ratu about his skating.

Cause, um, it is interesting. Um, he said, uh, he told iMac that he had some light bulb moments when it came to his skating. And whenever I hear that, I'm like, Oh, that sounds promising. Cause you can imagine them and be like, wait, why wasn't I doing this before?

But he had some, some, he added some details because IMAC asked him the obvious question. I'm like, what were those light bulb moments? And he said, there's a lot of things, a lot of body lean.

My crossovers were horrible. Horrible. That's what he said. My crossovers were horrible. And then he said he switched his blades because in Europe, they have a lot of glide

in their blades for the bigger ice surfaces so I switched them a little bit and said it gave him more confidence to have that body lean required for those cross crossovers and he added if you look at those good players they get the speed from crossovers and then they get the puck if I can get my speed faster and kind of get through some guys I think that's going to be the difference. That is interesting. And everyone will bring up, like, remember when Bo Horvat went from not a good skater to a good skater?

I'm sure he had some light bulb moments. So it's funny, right? Like, people talk about Ratu, and it's hilarious. I was reading that. I was like, wait a minute, you got to lean? You're supposed to lean when you're skating? I'm not supposed to just try to run on the ice. That's not what you're supposed to do?

Weird. I'll try that at 48 years old. So Laddie got in my ear when we were talking about this. Cool, wet sack. Yeah. He's like, how old is Ratu? Isn't he like, you thought he was how old? I joked that he was 27.

No, no. 21. Right. Yeah. I think it's- They gave up on him early in New York. Right. It's instructive to remember that for all of the prospects that hit the ground running

and burst onto the scene and look great, there's a bunch of other ones that are going to take some time. And I think we're probably as guilty as anyone. We're pretty quick to write people off across the sporting landscape. You did it with Shane, right? When he was like 13. He's still written off. So it's funny.

The only reason I bring this up is I'm watching Sunday Night Football last night and Caleb Williams is out there, right? You're writing him off? No, I'm not. I wrote him off when he was at USC. So I don't like USC. So I was like, this guy's not going to make it, right?

However, I thought there were two things that were really interesting. One, Chris Collinsworth was bending over backwards to point out every little nuance that he said that this guy had learned from week one to week two and it was almost like baked into the narrative that it was like caleb williams is struggling but or that wasn't a good play however like they were how about that sack he took right at the end of the game he got he got drilled There were some big hits in that game. I was watching TV and just like, watch out!

The Texans were like pedal to the metal the whole game. They were just going to blitz and just try and hit anything we could find. They were very physical. Cole Komet, the wide receiver, got blown up. A lot of it had to do with the... Anyway, I bring this up because this quarterback class right now, much ballyhooed, much celebrated. I've watched it pretty close to the first two weeks.

There are not a lot of positives to draw on. Nope. Find me one. Prove me wrong, children. Find me one. But it's been tough. And it's funny. If you go on social media, the cesspool that is social media

like there's people ripping on caleb williams last night and i'm like that's tough like he it's a second people not remember peyton manning's first time in the nfl when he was thrown pick after pick after pick i just i think that um i don't want to start like waxing too poetic here but it's a like appeasement now i want the results today i don't want to start like waxing too poetic here, but it's like appeasement now. I want the results today. I don't want to wait. There's no patience. Do you also think there's been so many busts in the last little while that people are just,

they're like, oh God, we've got one now. I feel like the NFL did Caleb Williams dirty last night by putting him on primetime Sunday night football against CJ Stroud. Because CJ Stroud, Cause CJ Stroud, let's be clear. That's the anomaly. That's the exception,

not the norm, right? That's to have the kind of like shot out of a can and amazing rookie year makes the playoffs looks like a polished pro. That's the exception to the rule. But I mean, and then you mentioned it cause we were talking about Bryce young who, by the way,

like that's unfortunately for him, like that's a career that's in a bit of a tailspin right now but you know who might be turning it around kyler murray right and that's how many years down the road right yeah and then i go back to my favorite quarterback baker mayfield i mean he's 29 and he's 29 he's 29 years old and he's almost as old as atu ratu right according to laddie yeah but it just goes to show like these the the projections and the trajectory is not always linear doesn't always follow a straight pattern and maybe you don't have the patience to wait until the guy's 29 but sometimes guys just get there just a lot later than you would like. Anyway, we've got a lot more to get to on the program. Coming up on the other side, we're going to talk to Ed Willis,

former beat writer for the Vancouver Canucks, journalist, scribe, longtime writer for the province. He's got a new book out on the Vancouver Canucks. Never Boring, the up and down history of the Vancouver Canucks will be available for purchase. I believe it's the first week of October, October 5th. It hits both e-stores and in bookstores locally. So we'll talk to Ed about this endeavor.

Over 60 interviews. I'm going to ask because I know the answer, but I'm going to ask him anyway. The one interview that he wasn't able to get for the book. Right. So I'll ask him about that. And then at 8.30, we're going to do what? So ask him about his biggest failure when it came to the book.

Yeah, right. What was the part that isn't the best about your book? No, we're going to do ask him about his biggest failure when it came to the book yeah right what was the part that isn't the best about your book no we'll talk to Adam about his book it's a great endeavor it's going to be a fun read perfect in time for Christmas season right or in Andy's case Halloween season if you buy gifts for that

yeah and then at 8.30 we're going to do what we learned we're going to turn it over to the humanoids hashtag WWL what did you learn over the last 72 hours in sports? Brough pushing the disaster that is Everton is sweeping the province. People are invested in the sad sack Everton

club that lost yet again on the weekend. We've got some fun stuff there as well. That's all coming up in the final hour of the program. Oh, wait, before we go to break, I need to tell you about the BC Lions. They're on a buy this week, but you can still get tickets for their next game, September 27th, against the visiting Hamilton Tiger Cats. The Roar is back at BC Place for the BC Lions' 70th season.

Get your tickets now at bclions.com. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.