Halford & Brough in the Morning - Does Petey Have The Yips?

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), they talk a big Canucks OT win over the Sharks (6:00), Brough gives his theory on what's going on with Elias Pettersson (10:46), plus they look ahead to tomorrow's home matchup versus the Leafs with The Athletic NHL's James Mirtle (27:58). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Whoa, wait a minute. Huh? Hold up. What? Oh, okay. Did we just lose to the f***ing Canucks the slot shoots, he scores! Drew O'Connor on the overtime penalty shot wins it for the Canucks! What a freaking boost. The grumpy guy. Yeah, that's Jason. Yes, a little bit grumpy that guy. Kind of like Tim too though, against my better judgment I did. Brough was like, you know, he's just grumpy all the time. Ladies and gentlemen, the weekend. Woo! Good morning, Vancouver. Six o'clock on a Friday.

Happy Friday, everybody. Sweet, sweet Friday. It is Alfred, it is Brough, it is Sportsnet 650, and we are coming to you live from the Kintec Studios in beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, studios and beautiful fairview slopes in Vancouver Jason good morning Good morning a dog. Good morning. Good morning. Gladdy. Good morning to you as well Hello, hello, Halferd and brough for the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers

They have a friendly knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for sales Financing service or parts we are in our one of the. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. It's the weekend everybody, it's Friday, it's Super Bowl weekend. We got a lot to get into on the program today a big guest list awaits starts at 630 James Myrtle yeah Myrtle from the athletic he's gonna join us at

630 now normally we don't do game previews the day ahead of a game but because we're not on the air tomorrow we're gonna talk to Myrtle today about tomorrow's game four o'clock yeah the dreaded four o'clock puck drop from Rogers Arena. It's the Canucks and Leafs tomorrow. Now we can ask Myrtle about a Leafs team. It's been dominant on their Western road trip so far. Got wins in Edmonton, Calgary last night in Seattle. So they come into Vancouver pretty hot, pretty hot those Leafs. We'll talk to Myrtle about that at 630. Seven o'clock it's AJ from AJ's Pizza on East Broadway. Reminder, we got a $100 gift card to AJ's for the best Ask Us Anything or What We Learned. That's also

a reminder that it's Friday so it's Ask Us Anything on the program. I have heard that AJ is in Florida so we'll see if he's got a direct line to Jimmy Aces for some Super Bowl bets for the weekend. I thought Jimmy Aces was a New York guy. Is he a Florida guy? East. It's an East Coast thing. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. 730, the Moge is going to join the program live from New Orleans, where he is making a very strong case already to be Super Bowl MVP. Moge is killing it right now.

We can also discuss not just the Super Bowl with Moge, but last night, NFL awards and the Hall of Fame announcement. Sadly, Moj did not get inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame last night. One of the more noteworthy snubs of the evening, to be honest. I saw a lot of Seattle sports guys upset. Softy was very upset that Mike Holmgren didn't get in.

I thought you were gonna say Moj, but yeah, Mike Holmgren. Definitely right there with Moj. Eli Manning, Mike Holmgren didn't get in. I thought you were going to say Moj, but yeah, Mike Holmgren, definitely right there with Moj. Eli Manning, Mike Holmgren, Moj, and then Adam Vinatieri, those were the four big snubs from last night. Do you think Andy Reid was a product of Mike Holmgren just by the way they look? Yeah, it was the genetic tree. Eight o'clock, Rick Dollywall is going to

join the program. I don't know what we're going to talk to Dolly about, perhaps the Dolly handler, but I need to know. I need to know how soon the Canucks are going to extend Drew O'Connor. I need to know. So we'll ask Rick about that at 8 o'clock. A reminder, it is Ask Us Anything Friday. Dunbar number text line is 650-650. Hashtag it AUA or WWL. Put a pizza emoji into your text, the best one,

the best one, the best of the best, will win a $100 gift card to AJ's Pizza on East Broadway. And let me tell you, the Dunbar Lumber text line from last night's game is pretty nasty. You know what? I'm gonna make a ruling right now. The winner of the $100 gift card to AJ's, it can be an ask us anything or what we learn, but it has to be non-PD division. It has to be. I'm encouraging all of

you to think outside the box because 90% of the texts right now are about Lewis Pedersen, number 40. Not surprisingly. It is 650, 650, the Dunbar Lumber text line Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rental warriors for over 50 years Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dunbar lumber.com. So working in reverse on the guest list 8 o'clock It's Dolly Wall 730. It's the mode 7 o'clock. It's AJ 630. It's James Myrtle. That's what's happening on the program today Laddie tell everybody what happened Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No.

What happened? I missed all the action because I was too short. We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety

simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. Thursday night in San Jose, Drew O'Connor scored on a penalty shot just 33 seconds into overtime. Vancouver Canucks win 2-1 in San Jose over the Sharks. I actually just want to play the game-winning goal again because of the historical aspect of it. There is only one historical aspect. Historical aspect. The Canucks only had one other penalty shot winning goal in overtime prior to last night.

We'll play the audio. I'll come back on the other side and tell you who that other historical figure was. Here's Drew O'Connor with the winner last night on the penalty shot in OT. Chance to win it shot in OT. Shot in overtime and Drew O'Connor 33 seconds into sudden death gives the Canucks a 2-1 win Since you don't clearly don't know are you just playing possum? I can't tell he's such a good actor I can't remember. I don't know who was it November 18th 2016 who can forget where they were when Ben Hutton scored on a penalty shot for the Vancouver Canucks Against the team that doesn't even exist anymore,

the Arizona Coyotes. Laddie, who was the goalie for the Arizona Coyotes that night? You told me and I've already forgotten. Oh, Louis Domingue. Louis Domingue. Not the best. Louis Domingue and Ben Hutton with the penalty shot.

That's it, Ben Hutton and Drew O'Connor, forever linked in Canucks history. So I was joking after the game, I was like, I think Halford did predict that Drew O'Connor. linked in Canucks history. So I was joking after the game, I was like, I think Halford did predict that Drew O'Connor. I pat myself on the back. You said it at the beginning of the season, it was one of your hot takes. It was like, here's one of my hot takes.

It's going to be like Drew O'Connor playing for the Vancouver Canucks is going to win a game in overtime. Correct. On a penalty shot against San Jose, six days after JT Miller was traded. Correct. And he was like, not a lot of my hot takes come true, but I have confidence with this one.

Yeah. What a season it's been. And then I added with an asterisk, then the only reason that they're going to overtime is because Philip Heidel made a really bad play at the end of regulation. Right. Yeah. Also a guy that I knew would be on the team. It's a wild sequence of events. Crazy.

But it was a... At least JT Miller's not around to like blame in overtime. How about Drew O'Connor using JT Miller's shootout move? Yeah. Came in off the left side. Pretty impressive. Pretty impressive. A little homage to JT.

He's like, I'm gonna need a... Slam the gate and honor at the end. He did a slew. I need a left-handed stick here, please. He slammed the gate of the celebration. And then to further honor JT Miller. They won. Why is he snapping?

Yelled at all his teammates. Yeah. But we won. Oh, god, it's happening again. Well, it was certainly a night in San Jose. He's rocking back and forth in the corner. It was certainly a night in San Jose. I think, as we've said on numerous occasions,

this season's in season's past. Not an oil painting by any stretch of the imagination, but I want to get this out there right now before we turn our attention to Elias Pettersson, because it is a massive talking point yet again. I don't even care how they win games, just go out and win games and rack up dubs and take care of business and get in the playoffs.

Well, Demko too. I mean, Demko. Demko was great. Is looking better. He was great. You know, Demko too. I mean, Demko. Demko was great. Is looking better. Yeah, he was great. You know, he did allow that final goal, but that was his homage to Luongo to give up a late goal and force overtime.

After making the first three saves. Yeah, exactly. And then he scored on the fourth rebound or whatever it was. Yeah. He looks solid and great call on everyone who had the over in yesterday's game. So I almost set it on the air. Tr. So I almost set it on the air.

Trans? I almost set it on the air yesterday, yeah, because I didn't even realize that Vanaček was starting until later in the day. If I knew that Vanaček was starting when we were on the air, I would have said play the over, because he hadn't played since December. And lo and behold, it was basically a zero, zero game.

Until the third period, when Dakota Joshua scored for the Vancouver Connects, and he had a very nice game yesterday. Rick talk. It spoke glowingly about Joshua's game rounding in the forum. Yeah. And then it was good to see that get a

goal. Another, another former connect Tyler to fully scored even it up for the sharks. And then drew Connor in overtime on the penalty shot. Canucks now firmly, firmly taking grasp of that final wild card spot in the West. That of course, because Calgary lost to Colorado last night

But I feel like I'm I'm rambling Feel like I'm filibustering. I feel like I'm taking away from maybe the major talking point from last night and this is not Just are doing if you listen to the postgame show last night was satin Bic They did a very delicate dance of trying to do an actual post game show while also wading through the toxic infested waters of the Dunbar Lumber text message in basket, which Bic said at one

point was 90% text about Elias Pettersson. Well, I think it might've been the worst game of his career, frankly, considering the situation. Okay. You don't need to turn your mic off quite yet. I do have something prepared here, but. I think I'm've been the worst game of his career, frankly, considering the situation. Okay? You don't need to turn your mic off quite yet. I do have something prepared here, but. I think I'm going to turn it off. I think with the way he looked on the power play, had a lot of people wondering what is

going on with this guy. Okay. So I do have something prepared here. I know people have their own theories on what's wrong with Pedersen. Some people's theories is I have no idea what's wrong with it. Ray Ferraro went on Donnie and Dolly yesterday and he was just like, I don't know. I don't know. There's some people are absolutely convinced it's an injury. Absolutely convinced of it. 100%. This is tendonitis. And Petey said so and you're just ignoring him. How could you do that to him?

Some people say, ah, he got his contract and he got fat and happy. Some people just say he's soft. Disagree with all of it. Okay? I think I'm not saying that there was no tendonitis there. That is not what I think. That's my theory, which you are free to disagree with. Okay. He's got the yips. He's got a bad case of the yips. and that means he is terrified of failure. And what did Jim Rutherford say when asked about Pedersen? He said, he was having trouble living up to the contract. He's scared of failing.

What we are seeing in my opinion is 90% psychological, maybe 100% psychological. His confidence is completely cooked. Now, how did he lose that confidence? Who knows? Maybe the tendonitis was a factor or maybe didn't work hard enough in the off season. But tendonitis does not explain why he's terrified to shoot the puck or terrified to attack space on the power play. There was a moment in last night's game where he had the puck all alone at

the point and the Sharks were like, we know you're not gonna shoot, we know you're just gonna pass it, and there was probably 20 feet between Pedersen and a Sharks player. He didn't attack that space. He passed it. Okay. Um, and you know, what do we hear a lot of when Pedersen came into the league? Oh, this guy's a perfectionist, right? He's a perfectionist.

There's a good type of perfectionism and there is a bad type of perfectionism and there is a bad type of perfectionism. And you can have both. But here are the following effects of perfectionism. Fear of making mistakes. Procrastination due to fear of failure. Avoidance of challenges. You think about all the times the Canucks have said this guy's just got to work. He's got to work. He's got to go. He's got to work.

Rip me for this all you want. I don't care. I'm used to it at this point. Go read up about the yips before you do it though. If you haven't experienced them before, you really don't know what it's like and you probably can't fathom them how they can possibly occur. They are maybe the cruelest affliction in sports. So when

you get the yips you overanalyze your movements instead of trusting muscle memory, you fear making mistakes so much that you tense up. You try to like consciously control your movements, which actually makes them worse. And then you lose more and more confidence and you spiral into more anxiety. If anyone listening right now that's watching Pedersen, that's also experienced the yips in golf or baseball or maybe even hockey. I'd love to hear from you what you think about this. I got a few quotes from athletes that have

dealt with the yips. Rick Ankeel, remember him? We had him on the show. We had him on the show back at 1040. We had him on the show and we talked about this and it got so bad for Rick Ankeel at one point, baseball player, that he was having a few vodkas before the game started. And he says, it's like you forget how to throw a baseball, the harder you try, the worse it gets. Chuck Knoblok, famous yipper. I don't know what happened.

One day I just couldn't throw the ball anymore. Macky Sasser, remember him? I do. Catcher for the Mets, couldn't throw it back to the, uh, couldn't throw it back to the pitcher and guys would just like steal it. It was like, oh, you can't throw it back to the pitcher.

It was like a mental roadblock. My mind wouldn't let me do what I had done my whole life. Simone Biles, we all heard about her. She had a specific gymnastics form of the yips, it's called the twisties. The gym yips. Your body and your mind are not in sync.

I literally cannot tell up from down. And Bernhard Langer, it felt like an out of body experience. My hands wouldn't do what I wanted them to do. Even a guy like Novak Djokovic, earlier in his career, and I think it comes up every once in a while or it still did, said, I had to reprogram my mind to trust my serve again.

So the yips aren't associated as much with hockey, but it does happen. You can become hesitant with your shots. You can miss easy little passes. You can bobble the puck without getting checked. That happened last night. Now, the good thing about hockey is you can go do other stuff like play smart defensively or, you know, level a guy with a big hit that we've

seen Pedersen do a few times. But when the puck is on your stick, you feel like your hands are about to explode. You literally don't trust how your body is moving. One more thing about the yips. They are super embarrassing to these guys. They don't want to talk about it. You're not going to be in the mood to talk about it. It's embarrassing and maybe even you don't understand what's going on.

One more thing about the yips. One more. One more. It makes them even worse when JT Miller is yelling at you. Known fact. Proven by science. Take it or leave it, guys. Everyone's got a theory and that's mine. even worse when JT Miller is yelling at you. Known fact, proven by science. Take it or leave it, guys. Everyone's got a theory and that's mine, okay? If it turns out I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it.

If I'm right, I suppose the good news is that the yips can be overcome and maybe PD has already had to overcome the yips. Remember Rock Bottom in Carolina? Maybe that was a bit of the yips too and then he found his confidence. A lot of people that talk about the yips. Remember Rock Bottom in Carolina? Maybe that was a bit of the yips too and then he found his confidence. A lot of people that talk about the yips is like, man, they come and go. That's the frustrating thing. If it turns out I'm wrong, gladly admit it. If I'm right, the bad thing is sometimes the end careers.

So let's explore this a little bit further. We've got a few minutes until we get to the break and look, this is what the majority of the people are talking about anyway. I think So let's explore this a little bit further. We've got a few minutes until we get to the break. And look, this is what the majority of the people are talking about anyway. I think it's a worthy conversation to have because there is a very, very rich and diverse history in sports. Sports, the industry that we are all talking about and working in of these incidents happening. So when you brought this up last night, and spoiler alert, we do prep some of this stuff before the show, I was like, okay, it's an interesting theory.

We have spent so many countless hours trying to diagnose and figure out what's going on. This one's as good as any, and at least this one is founded in sport because it's happened to countless people before. So I got to thinking, and then I remembered that a book that my uncle gave me when I was like 14 or 15, I've referenced it on the show a bunch. It's the best American sports

writing of the century. It's like a thousand pages, like a Bible, it's gold. And I've like dog-eared it now from having read it so many times. There's an article in there from 1973 from Roger Angel, who's one of the greatest sports writers of all time. He wrote for the New Yorker for decades and decades, the Babe Ruth of sports writing. And he had a really long profile on Steve Blass. For those that don't know who Steve Blass is, he's like the godfather of the yips. I hate saying it that way, but it was called Steve Blass disease for the longest time because he was the first athlete, specifically Major League Baseball player, whose career was ended by what Jace was talking about, the Yips.

And there's a million different phrases for it. But what this article does and what's crazy about it is that you brought up a really great point. No one likes to talk about it. In fact, most athletes don't talk about it. I remember Rick Ankeel coming on our show. It's like pulling teeth trying to get him to really talk about it. Like really.

And his career was over at that time, right? Yeah, and like really, really talk about it. Yeah. And this is. It's so embarrassing. Right, so this article, and I'll put it up on Twitter later so everyone can have a read. It's for free on the New Yorker website because it's like

You know so old now. It's It's a PDF. Yeah, really have to go to the library to get it out and Tom microfiche, so it goes into very very elaborate detail about the depths and lengths that one goes to try and solve it and then the lead and the cru one goes to try and solve it. And then the lead and the crux of the whole thing is how everything stopped being fun

and how miserable life became. Yeah. And that really hung in the ether when I was thinking about this, I'm like, whoa, okay. Just, you know, they had some great anecdotes from Steve Blass's teammates who watched it go down. And they're like, I don't understand how he could do it. Cause at the end, the spoiler alert is it ruined his career. And the pirates kept them on the roster, like the 30 man, the 60 man roster,

whatever. But he just stood there in the dugout and watched. And they said they never had more respect for a teammate because he was like the amount of struggle he was going through and then just to be drummed out of the team, having been a very big part of it, was heartbreaking to watch. And here's the other thing. They never figured out what went wrong. Never figured it out. He went to psychiatrists. He did, was it a transcendental meditation? Transcendental. Is that what it is. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah anyway He had he said people were mailing him because this is back in the day. This is in the 70s amulets and

Potions and everything else. Oh, you talked to John Tavares, right? John Tavares was like try this and then Fine, it's never got the hips somewhat and then they were like the big Mushroom cloud that was hanging over, that's the right phrase, was he was close friends with Roberto Clemente. And Roberto Clemente died in the tragic plane crash. And even Steve Blassett, he's like, I've looked inside myself

and I've done the studying of myself. That wasn't it. Like there was no correlation between the personal tragedy and me getting the yips. Like no one could explain why it happened. It just happened. We're getting a lot of texts into the Dumberlumber text line saying, yeah, I think you're onto something.

Bro, you're the best. We love you. You're so handsome. A lot of that. Well, no, but seriously, Jeremy Abbott for Texan, he goes, I'm you're onto something. Ralph, you're the best. We love you. You're so handsome. A lot of that. Well, no, but seriously, Jeremy Abbott for Texan. He goes, I'm a welder. And when I was young and learning the trade, I

went through about a year where I was regressing. I had a high stress job with major deadlines. It got to a point where I couldn't even lay down a basic weld. Took a lot of mental work to get through it. The yips are real and they can affect anyone. Yeah, it affects Adog, it affects musicians, guitarists, pianists, that happens.

Sometimes I would sit down at the piano and just forget how to play. See, you're joking because you don't, you don't- No, really. You've never experienced it. No, really. No, really.

Sometimes, yeah, you get so nervous, you just forget every, or actually it's even better with acting. Like you memorize a script, you know it page to page, an entire play or an entire TV script or whatever and you memorize it perfectly of every single word. But then you get there, you get super nervous and you forget all your lines. And it takes you like five, 10 minutes to psych yourself up and get back into it. Obviously this is not what's happening with Petey.

He can't just psych himself into it, but I understand what you mean. This is the frustrating thing about the yips. And by the way, I mean, like, I'm like, Bruff, are you projecting on this? Cause like I've dealt with the yips on the golf course ever since I played like putting chipping and you can go out and you can practice and you can think, okay, I got this, right? Like you can be around the chipping green for two hours and be like, all right, I think I figured something out. And normally you've like, like changed your grip

to something super weird, right? Like you tried something completely different. Like remember in that scene in Tin Cup? Yeah. Where like, he's like, put this, put this behind your ear now, like, you know, like put your sunglasses on or something. And, and, you know, at any rate,

but then you get out on the course and the first time you got it, your hands explode. Right. Right? Now those- And you're just like, God! And the biggest- And it lives with you, man.

Right. It lives with you because it's like, and I can't imagine, like I'm further sitting from an elite athlete out there. Well, that's the thing. But I can't imagine, you're Chuck Knobluck, you've played baseball your whole life, and you can't throw the ball to first from second base? Yep. And that's the thing. But I can't imagine, you're Chuck Knobluck, you've played baseball your whole life, and you can't throw the ball to first from second base? Yep, and that's your livelihood. That's the big difference, right?

Like if you, I'll do respect to your robust golf game, but if you've got the yips at golf, and you just stop playing golf, your life's not gonna change that dramatically. Like you'll miss the activity, and it'll be a leisure thing that you don't do anymore, but your life is probably gonna be pretty much the same. For a lot of these professional athletes that have gone through this, it's their identity, their livelihood, everything. Everything that they've understood,

everything that they've trained their bodies to do for decades and decades suddenly sabotages them and leaves them and it's the most mundane simple tasks. Throwing a ball in a general vicinity, landing a jump that you've done a billion times over. I know Nick Anderson is quite the famous one from basketball, shooting free throws. He bricked those free throws in the 1994 NBA finals as a member of the Orlando Magic and then went to becoming a 40% free throw shooter after that.

Terrified to go into the line. Free throws are where it really happens. It's these times where you're alone. And that's why I think you see it so obviously on the power play. Because again, like there was early in the game, Petey's at the right point with the puck, nobody around him. And you could feel like he was just like, okay, in the game, PD's at the right point with the puck. Nobody around him. And you could see, you could feel like he was just like, okay, well I can't shoot.

I can barely move here. I'm going to just pass this off. Nothing looks natural. And that's the whole thing. So anyway, the Canucks won last night, two, one dramatic shootout or sorry, shootout, a penalty shot in overtime by Drew O'Connor. Uh is now five wins in their last seven this after losing 16 of their previous 23. Are the Canucks back? Too soon to say but it is a nice little win

streak and they are now back in a playoff spot. Coming up on the other side of the break we're gonna be joined by James Myrtle from the Athletic in Toronto. We're gonna look ahead to Saturday's game. Leafs, Canucks, always a big one. Also the last game before the Four Nations faceoff. The Leafs come in pretty hot, so hot right now. Having won their first three games on their Western road swing.

Hopefully the Canucks can end that tomorrow night. And finally, before we go to break, this is the last time, last day that we can urge you guys to go to the Clayton Public House on Sunday for the big football party. We are co-hosting along with the last time, last day that we can urge you guys to go to the Clayton Public House on Sunday for the big football party. We are co-hosting along with the Clayton, us here at Sportsnet 650. If you, I believe there's still reservations, I'm doing the read like it is anyway, visit them at the ClaytonPub.com for more. If you want to go to the party on Sunday, Clayton

Public House, good food, good people, good times. The show rolls on, don't go anywhere. You're listening to the Halfordand Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. It's Canucks Central with Dan Riccio and Satyar Shah, your destination for everything Canucks. Exclusive interviews, inside info, and even the post game show. Listen four to six p.m. weekdays and on demand through your favorite podcast app. I'm going to be back. 6.33 on a Friday. Happy Friday everybody. Sweet, sweet Friday and a Fiesta Friday here

on the Haliford and Brev Show on Sportsnet 650. Haliford and Brev of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can know with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour one of the program. James Myrtle from the Athletic in Toronto

is gonna join us in just a moment here. Kick off hour one, set up tomorrow's game, Canucks Leafs four o'clock from Rogers Arena. Hour one of this program is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. To the phone lines we go, our good buddy James Myrtle joins us now on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning Myrtle, how are you buddy?

I'm good guys, how's it going? We're good, thanks for taking the time to do this. Long time no talk. So it's a long time no play for Anthony Stollers who made his first start last night since December 12th. But no rust on Stollers, 27 saves, Leafs beat the crack in 3-1. This has been a pretty good road trip for the Leafs

and it just got better with the return of Stollers. Yeah, this is, this kind of been the way their season has gone lately. They win three, then they lose three, then they win three and it, you know, this market, it kind of riding the wave every time they go on a run or they go on a losing streak. So now they're, now they're hot and I guess we'll see what happens tomorrow.

So what's the biggest hot button issue in Toronto right now as they arrive in Vancouver for the final game before the four nations? Yeah, you know, I gotta be honest guys. I mean, I think I texted you, Bruv, a couple of weeks ago that I'm jealous of you guys with everything you have to talk about. I mean, the Leafs have been kind of boring this year. Like you, you guys haven't had me on the show all year because normally it's, there's something on fire in Toronto by now

and it's just nothing has really happened. And, you know, they're in sixth place in the NHL standings and that's kind of where they've been all year. And they've had good goaltending and Craig Borubei's been fine. And I don't know. I think he's been fine. Everything's been fine. Yeah, it's boring. We're just waiting for the playoffs to see

if the Leafs do the thing or that they always do, or they do something else or not. That's what, that's what's happening. Well, I mean, you guys must talk about whether or not they're going to keep Marner and I guess, to a lesser extent, Tavares. I guess, but I mean, it's, they're going to, that's going to happen in the off season anyway.

So, you know, like you talk about it for the first month and a half of the season, it's like, all right, well, there's not really anything else to say. You know, I think that, I think the Marner one's going to be one of those ones that comes right down to the day before free agency or, or July one, you know, like they're, they're pretty far apart in negotiations.

The fact that cap's going up so much is making it even more complicated. And I think it's going to come down to, does he want to stay or does he want the most money? And he's gonna have to decide that at some point. Could the playoffs be a determining factor in that? Like if they go well, maybe he stays, if they don't, maybe the pressure gets so much that they got to

just switch it up because, you know, I think part of what you're telling me here is like, it's been the same for so long in Toronto. Yeah, there's been a few changes here and there, but it's, it's been the same for so long in Toronto. Yeah, there's been a few changes here and there, but it's, it's been the same core of guys. Yeah. No, it's been, I can't think of any other team that's done this with, you know, the same core

players for so long without success. You know, even teams that have won, you know, and some of it's been forced by the salary cap, but in the NHL, most cores don't last beyond four or five years, let alone ones that aren't successful. So it's, it's been a really weird situation. And you know, I talked to a lot of the fans and a lot of them were just very tired of this group and you know, it wouldn't matter what they did during the regular season, they

could win the president's trophy. And you know, last year Matthews had 69 goals was a huge story, historic season. And some people were just like, yeah, whatever. You know, like it's, I'm honestly, like there's some members of the fan base that are like, I'm tired of this team until they actually do something when it matters. So, and I don't blame them. It's even as someone in the media, like trying to, what new could we possibly write about Mitch Marner or Auston Matthews right now? It's been so long and we're just, we're kind of just, I mean, this isn't a compelling radio appearance here

that I'm telling you. That's just the way it is right now. It's kind of boring here. Yeah. No, no, you know, it is weirdly compelling because we are talking about one of the most iconic brands in Canadian sport, one of the most passionate fan bases in the NHL and it's apathy because there's been almost too much success, regular season version anyway.

It's not like Buffalo where you can understand the apathetic nature of the fan base because they haven't been to the playoffs and we're going on like a decade and a half now. The Leafs are in a weird opposite direction and you brought up the most interesting part of it is that most organizations probably would have made a fundamental change to the core by this point. You know, in any other sport you would have seen it like, well it's not working, we gotta try something different.

If only just because we can't keep doing the same thing again. But the Leafs have gone in the totally opposite direction. Now you have this dynamic at play. We're getting anecdotal stuff coming in to our text message in basket right now saying, I got friends of mine who are all just like the regular season doesn't matter.

Wait till the playoffs. That's a crazy thing for a team that plays 82 regular season games, James. Yeah. I mean, well, you know, 2016, they drafted Matthews and that's, that was like the era of the Neal Undermarner and this group. And so it's been almost a decade.

Yeah. You know, and, and the, the promise that that started with that very first season, they had seven rookies in the lineup that first season. That's, that was probably the most fun season I've had covering the team. I've been around the team since 2007 and they, they made the playoffs, they, they gave, they

pushed Washington really hard in the first round and everyone's like, oh, it is a new era. And now it's just like, I mean, some people are still excited, but they're kind of like the people that will be excited even if there's like nuclear Holocaust or whatever and the Leafs are playing a hockey game. But like there's, there's a, there's a, the fan base is very split. Like half the people hate this team and like hate watch them. There's a whole bunch of people that don't watch anymore.

Like I'm sure the ratings are down from the peak of a few years ago. the people hate this team and like hate watch them. There's a whole bunch of people that don't watch anymore. Like I'm sure the ratings are down from the peak of a few years ago. And it's just a really weird situation. And I don't know. I don't, and you go to the building, a lot of games and the crowds are awful. Like it's kind of the point where the players are pointing out how bad the crowds are. And that's been an ongoing concern, but this year it feels like it's been worse than ever. I think it was JD Bunkus that was saying like,

the crowds are better for the Leafs when they're on the road in Canada than they are in Toronto. Yeah, a hundred percent. They're better when they go to Florida or when they're in Buffalo or when, you know, like it's not even in Canada, like it's, and then the affordability is a problem and just the sameness is a problem.

So, you know, if, if they continue to bring back Marner and Tavares, even if they do have some version of playoff success, I think that this is going to be an ongoing problem for them. Have you gotten the sense that the organization is concerned about this dynamic at all? I think of the most diplomatic way to answer that. I think they're most concerned with trying to win and trying to keep their jobs. I think those are the most pressing concerns.

That's fair. But I think from the business side, they should be concerned because there's just no way that it's not affecting the TV ratings and just like the van engagement. There's no way that it's not impacting that. Okay. Here's an actual hockey question.

Who is the best defenseman on the Leafs right now? Um, I would say, I mean, it's pretty close. I would say it's between Jake McCabe and Chris Tanev and I think it's, I think it's pretty close. So not Morgan Reilly. No, no, he's not had a good season. I don't know if it, I don't know if the local boy is getting the, the accurate press out there

or not, but no, it's been a really, really tough year for him. So how does that affect everything? Because, you know, for, for years, a lot of people, I realized that like scoring was an issue for the Leafs when they would go into the playoffs sometimes and there'd be a lot of focus and rightly so on, on the top guys up, up front. But I've always kind of looked for the Leafs when they would go into the playoffs sometimes and there'd be a lot of focus and rightly so on the top guys up front.

But I've always kind of looked at the Leafs defense and been like, I don't know if this group is good enough and I have to say I'm looking at again like this, like if it's Jake McCabe or Chris Tanev, like I like those players obviously. Like I know Chris Tanev especially. I think he's a really good player. I think the Leaf should have traded for him

six or seven years ago, but they didn't. And now I thought he'd be the ideal pairing for Morgan Riley, but has Riley just reached a point where the aging curve is hitting him? It looks like it. Yeah. I mean, the other thing too, is that the coaching change has really hit him hard and what

Barube is trying to do and just the style of play. I think it's really kind of messed with his head. And you know, Morgan Riley's confidence has not been where we've, I mean, he's always been a player that's been very, very aggressive and the benefit for him has always been his offense. Like he's a guy that's put up 70 points in the league. And if he's not giving you that he's never been a great defensive defenseman.

And he's never been a great fit as a number one defenseman overall. Like he really shouldn't be getting the tough matchups. And Barube picked up on that pretty early. Like he did play Riley and Tanev together for the first, like six or seven games of the season and quickly realized it wasn't working. And since then Riley's basically been a second pair guy and they've been playing McCabe and Tanev together and that pair has been great. That's been one of the best defensive pairings in the league. But the problem is they don't have enough else. You know, even with Morgan Riley being

a guy who's been a number one D in the league for a decade and makes $7 million, it hasn't worked even with him on the second pair. So I think the thing with Reilly though is that he's built up a lot of equity with this fan base. He's played well in the playoffs every year. He always steps up when it matters. You know, a lot of people thought that he should have been the captain of this team. So you know So there's some people that are turning on him, but I think people feel like in the playoffs when it matters,

he's going to be better than he's been this season. What have been some of the major changes that Craig Brubay has implemented taken over from Sheldon Keefe? They're not as exciting a team to watch. I mean, that plays into the apathy part of, part of it. I mean, like, you know, last year they were second in league scoring 3.65 goals per game this year, they're down substantially from that. You know, they win a lot of games that are, you know, two, one, three, two. They're trying to protect the house in front of the net. Uh, there's not as many rush chances.

It's kind of like, you know, the, the Leafs are kind of like a Ferrari with some of the offensive talent that they've got and the way that they're built. And he's trying to get them to play more like a, I don't know, make your, more like a Honda Accord or something or more or like Jeep, you know, like he's trying to, he's trying to change the DNA of the team a little bit, get them to play more of a playoff style. And that's what Brendan Shanahan and Brad Trey Livingham been trying to do with the roster and with his team for a while now. And it's been an awkward fit for some guys and, you know, it's been an awkward

fit for Riley, Max Domi's had a terrible season. He hasn't been able to do very much. Uh, Nick Robertson has been brutal. Uh, you know, some of the players that, that really need that kind of those rush chances and, and kind of opening up the offensive game and hasn't worked for them. So that's really what what Brubé has done. And the question is, like, is it going to work or not? You know, you've got this roster that doesn't 100 percent fit his style.

They haven't been great defensively the last month, month and a half, which I think partly comes back to Jason's point about the personnel. But that's where the Leafs are at right now. Uh, so one final question about this boring team that you cover. Um, or do they have any plans to add at the trade deadline? What, if so, what do they need besides excitement? Yeah, you know, yeah, I think they're going to add

something really boring and I think it's going to be, honestly, like the Leafs don't have hardly any assets to trade. They don't have a first round pick. They don't have a lot any assets to trade. They don't have a first round pick. They don't have a lot of picks in general. They don't have a lot of good prospects because they've gone all in at the trade deadline so many times.

The front office has been really reluctant to trade key assets lately. You know, last year's trade deadline was boring. You know, they traded a bunch of third round picks for, you know, Joel Edmondson to come in. And I think that that's probably what it's going to be like again. So no, I'm, if that's the note we're ending on,

no, there's not going to be a lot of excitement there. I, the, the latest rumor I saw, Elliot Friedman said that the Leafs might be in on Luke Kuhnen. And I think that it's going to be that kind of a trade deadline for them. It's a Luke Kuhnen sort of trade deadline. Okay. Put that in the headline.

Yeah. Myrtle, it was nice chatting with you. We've sufficiently. Nice to hear your voice. We've sufficiently fired up everyone's for tomorrow's game. I'll remind you, 4 o'clock puck drops from Vancouver, Canucks, Toronto. James, in all seriousness, thanks for doing this. It's always great talking to you.

It should be fun tomorrow night at the very least. It's always a fun game and it's the last one that we get before the four nations face off. So thanks for doing this. We'll check in closer to the trade deadline. Yeah, thanks guys. Thank you, James Myrtle from The Athletic in Toronto here on the Haliford and Breast Show on Sportsnet 650. So I can't post the link to the article.

I'm having a major boomer, doesn't know how to work the internet moment. I can't post the link to the Roger Angel article about Steve Blass with the yips onto Twitter. So if anyone was anxiously waiting me posting it on social media, I'll try and get it done by the end of the show, but I don't know what's going on right now. But if you, in case you missed it, Adog's already put up a video from this morning, Jason talking about his theory with Elias Pedersen and potentially going through

the Yips. Our one of the podcasts will be up in about 15 minutes time so you can listen to it all. Hour one of the podcast will be up in about 15 minutes time so you can listen to it all. We did spend an incredible amount of time discussing that certain situation and that specific theory. We didn't really talk a lot about the game last night and part of that was kind of by design. If you missed it last night, yes, the Canucks did win 2-1 in overtime in San Jose on a penalty shot goal by Drew O'Connor.

Outside of that, um, I received maybe as many texts as I have all year last night. And it's funny that we say this on the heels of Myrtle talking about how boring the Leafs were, how boring that game was. Yeah, there wasn't a lot that happened. Uh. It wasn't high flying.

It was disappointing too, because I was kind of looking forward to a bit of a more of a wide open game. And I thought with the Sharks and their inability to defend, which we really did see early on in the game, I thought the Canucks could have had a few goals, but it just never came to fruition. And then the game kind of settled into this, I don't know, boring game. But I thought that with the Sharks inability to defend combined with maybe some of

the energy, um, that the new guys were bringing to the Canucks that maybe we'd have a pretty fun hockey game. Um, now the good thing for San Jose is that there are about what, 7,000 people in the building yesterday? Yeah. 700.

There's a lot of empty seats there, man. There's a lot. I get it. There's, I mean, we want to talk about apathy with particular fan bases. And we mentioned Toronto, we mentioned Buffalo. Wouldn't as not happening here yet, but, um, San Jose has been bad for a long time and there's still a very bad hockey team.

And if you go look at the NHL standings, they are dead last in the NHL and they've earned every, every bit of that. Um, they're exciting to watch last night excluded, but the, I think the years of being irrelevant and on the outside looking in and losing so many games. Last year was really bad. Yeah.

There was definitely a consumer removal there where people were like, I'm not spending money on this. They're just horrific to watch. It's hard to get it back. They've got the pieces there. They do. It's just hard to get it back. They've got the pieces there. They do. It's just hard to get it back. It takes time.

Okay. Here's something I actually really want to talk about because, you know, Celebrini, we saw him yesterday in San Jose. What do you make of what's going on with Connor Bedard and the criticism that he's seeing from, and this is mostly in the States, from the broadcasts like TNT and Paul Bissanet

Bisnasty had some pretty stern criticism for his game. He called his game Pond Hockey the other day when the Blackhawks were playing the Oilers. What's your first instinct on what's going on here? Okay. So I just want to reset this just in case anyone doesn't know exactly what we're talking about. It's more than just the Bissonette thing. So Conradard's in a very unique situation. He is, and we've talked about this before, the face of a very prominent franchise. And I don't think everyone truly understands like the US broadcasters,

Chicago is on all the time. Chicago's on TNT, Chicago's on ESPN. They've got a bunch of nationally televised games. They had the winter classic. They've been very prominent. So they have been at times at the mercy of a lot of national pundits, including Paul Bissonnette. And also on Saturday, Marc Messier, who also criticized Connor Bidard for being soft on a puck battle. So Bidard is in this weird dynamic where, you

know, if you talk about Macklin Celebrini, Macklin Celebrini is not getting a 10th or a a hundredth of the national exposure. Cause he didn't come in with the hype. Correct. And it's Chicago, not San Jose. Bedard is also saddled with a crappy hockey team. He's not surrounded by very good players.

That aside, he's also got flaws that a lot of young players come into the league with and are all, I think, justly criticized for and all the cliches, not having a full 200 foot game, not being defensively responsible, not being physically engaged all the time. Puck management. Staying at the perimeter. Yeah, yeah.

Complaints that Connor Bedard and a lot of 18 and 19 and 20-year-old hockey players get when they break into the NHL. The issue here is that the criticisms of the golden boy are also coming on the biggest platforms that you have in hockey in the US. And everyone's talking about it now. And it's kind of, the conversations jumped the shark to, is this fair?

Which drives me up the wall because it's like, yeah, it's fair. Yeah. Well, I was watching the game live, uh, the Blackhawks and the Oilers. And so there was a shift where Bedard had a really bad giveaway to Conor McDavid and then, you know, took a hooking penalty on him on the back check. And then after he came out of the box, he had a couple more moments where

he was given the puck away unnecessarily. Okay? Cheaply given the puck away. He was kind of gunslinging out there. Right? Like it was like, it was like JT Miller on a bad game. Sure. Okay.

Everyone knows what that looks like. Bad Miller. Yeah, bad Miller. Um, and I went, you know, like, that was, that was not great. And I, I, I noted it myself, but I wasn't going to be like tweeting like, but Dard is terrible. What's going on with this guy? Cause to be like tweeting like, but art is terrible. What's going on with this guy? Cause I was kind of like, he's trying to make

things happen out there. Like that's what he's trying to do because no one else out there really has a ton of creativity. Like yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Tavo Terevinen, right? But like. Nick Foligno is not dangling. No, right.

So he's trying to make things happening, uh, happen. And you know, it's not, it's not working for him right now. He is tasked, he's 19 years old and he really is tasked from both on ice and off ice. You're carrying this original six franchise. You're carrying this franchise that what, 10 years ago was in the midst of a dynasty and has fallen on pretty hard times, both on the ice and off the ice for various reasons and you're tasked with bringing that back. And when he was drafted

first overall, you know, the world juniors that he had and the magical moments that he had in that world juniors combined with ESPN getting the rights and TNT getting the rights. These guys hyped Connor Bredard up to levels that were in my mind too high. And we talked about it on the show, but we also, at the same time, like we're cheering for this guy. He's a local, he's a local product. I don't want to sit here and go like Connor Medard is overrated or they overhyped this kid.

I still think he's going to be fine. But what we're going to find out is what he's made of mentally, right? Like how is he going to deal with this criticism? Is he going to take it to heart? Um, is he going to listen to the right criticism? Is he going to take it to heart? Um, is he going to listen to the right criticism? You know, like, is he going to be able to ignore the non-helpful criticism because he is being tested early on. But look, a lot of these great players get tested, you

know, Wayne Gretzky had a lot of doubters. He's too skinny, he's never going to make it and he made it. They called him a whiner too, right? They called Sidney Crosby a whiner. McDavid's defensive game got called into question. Quinn Hughes' defensive game got called into question and he was like, you know what? I'm going to work at it. Yeah. And I think that's what Connor Boudard's going to do. He's going to work at it. This guy's a worker.

He's not, he's not going to shy away from it. Or he's going to force a trade to Vancouver, the first chance that he gets, which would be great. I would love that. I will say this. When we talk about fair and unfair, um, there have been moments over the course of time in his very brief Chicago Blackhawks career

where there has been unfair expectations and unfair criticism lobbed at him. I think back to the Jeremy Roenick stupidity about not shaking his hand at the winter classic. Collectively, the fair and unfair criticism is piling up. And I know one thing, he does not look like a guy who's loving his time in Chicago right now. I mean, I've heard countless people say,

watch when he scores a goal. Right? Watch when he does anything of note. It's almost a shrug. And it's like, you guys know I can do this. There's a lot of criticisms being heaped on a guy. I hope he doesn't get jaded. And I hope he doesn't,

cause like one of the things about Bedard is that, and you just, you could tell he had such a love for the game. Yeah, well that's what I'm saying. And I hope he doesn't get jaded. Yeah, and that happens early on, cause the NHL is a tough place to play when you've figured it out. Nevermind when you're figuring it out.

It's a very difficult league to try and learn things on the fly. Does he have any young guys on that team that he can like? The drafting wasn't good, right? Like, so Celibriani has Will Smith. Not that Will Smith, but you know, another good young player that you can just have. Will Smith and Eklund.

Right, yeah. Who does Bedard have? Kevin Korchinski. But isn't he in the AHL? Yeah, that's the thing, is you look at some of the picks that they've surrounded him with, and they're not on his level yet. They're not there trying to help and lighten the load.

I mean, and again, San Jose, it's a lot easier to be lousy because it's all just sort of good times and everything, and Baddard has to carry the weight of an original six franchise. Also, and you brought up a, and I know we're up against it for time, but a pretty astute point that it wasn't that long ago that Taves and Kane and of course other players as well, but those

two in particular rose this team from the ashes. Yeah. And now it's supposed to be cyclical in a lot of the Blackhawks fans mind, but it's not turning out that way, at least at the beginning. Okay. Uh, we're going to talk to AJ and then we've got an open segment on the other side.

We can dip into the Dunbar Lumbertex line at 650, 650 it's ask us anything Friday. There's a hundred dollar gift card to AJ's pizza on the line for best ask us anything or what we learned. Halford made it a rule that the winner can, it cannot be Petey related. The winner. On Petey related.

The winner. On Petey division. You can still send in one, but it's not going to win. Um, I know a lot of you have Pedersen on your mind right now. Um, so if you want to talk about it, feel free. Um, you are listening to the Halford & Bruff show on Sportsnet 650.