Halford & Brough in the Morning - Elias Pettersson Is Making Progress

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason talk to radio commentator Brendan Batchelor about EP40 and Quinn Hughes extending their point streaks despite their Canucks squad losing yesterday, plus the boys go to the text message inbox to answer some listener questions about the 'Nucks (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's his friend in Bachelor, Bachelor, Bachelor, Bachelor. Life from Rogers Arena, Collin' Canucks Games. It is Brendan, Bachelor, Bachelor, Bachelor. 702 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody, Halford Brough, Sportsnet, 650. Halford and Brough for the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. learn how a consumer proposal can get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks

visit them online at sands dash trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program. Brendan Batchelor, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. Hour two is brought to by Jason hominock at jason.orgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money,

then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at jason.morgage. We are coming to live from the Kintech studio, Kintech footwear and orthotics working together with you and step. To the phone lines we go, Brendan Batchler, play-by-play voice of the Vancouver Canucks, joins us now on the Halford and Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Good morning, Batch,

how are you? I'm doing well. How are you guys? Good. You managed to catch your breath from last night. Thirteen goals traded between the two teams, so a lot going on in that game. Not to mention the Canucks debuts for Yuri Patera and David Komp. A lot to unpack, I imagine, in the

aftermath as well, Batch. Yeah, a pretty eventful game to say the least, with the the number of goals and, you know, the lead change that we saw as well. So, you know, not a game for the coaches, I don't think, but certainly an entertaining one for the fans. And unfortunate that the Canucks couldn't, you know, build on getting the lead early because that's something we talked about going into the game ran deep at eye on the broadcast, that Florida is really good when they start well. But if you could get a good start, let Patera settle into the game, then, you know, that would be the best way for you to have success. unfortunately it didn't play out that way

but ultimately with the injuries they have right now to come home with three of a possible six points from the road trip I think is still something to be proud of and we'll see how they respond on home ice against the stars later this week and

whether they get any bodies back into the lineup too. While we're talking about things that are encouraging Quinn Hughes, 10 points in his last three games, that seems good. Elias Pedersen, eight points in his last four games. I think we all know that Quinn Hughes is capable of doing incredible things. So let's focus on Pedersen.

What are you seeing out of Pedersen that's leading him to getting these points? Well, there's a few things. I think he's more confident and decisive with some of his decision making. It's not quite to the level of peak Elias Pedersen that we've seen in the past. But, you know, some of those things are helping them out a lot, especially on the power play right now, which has heated up here quite a bit. And that's encouraging because, you know, it's funny how Kinnock's seasons go because we're past the quarter pole now.

And it feels like yesterday that we were talking about, oh, it's going to be hard for this team to generate offense. And, you know, they're going to need to lean on their strengths of defense and goaltending. And in the last few games, it's been, well, they're scoring with relative ease. It's just they can't keep the puck out of their own. net or kill a penalty right now. But, you know, I think Pedersen, as I said, more decisive

has helped a lot on the power play. The power play trending in the right direction has helped him. And I think Quinn Hughes trending in the right direction has helped him too. But, you know, I talked to Scott Young about this on the pregame show yesterday and he said, you know, they like some of the decisions he's making.

They still want him to shoot the puck more. But for him to score a couple of goals yesterday has to be good for his confidence. And hopefully it means as his confidence grows, that decisiveness and that willingness to shoot the puck and take the chances that are there for him grows and he can continue to produce at the level he has

over the last few games, because especially when you look at everyone else that's out of the lineup, we've talked a lot here over the last few weeks about like, you know, it's great to have goals from Kiefer Sherwood and Drew O'Connor and all these guys producing down the lineup, but ultimately, you know,

this team is going to go as far as their top players take them. So to have Pedersen heating up again, to have Hughes heating up, is really encouraging for a group that, you know, as much as they hope to get healthier here in the short term, I don't know how much cavalry is coming for this group. And so they're going to need to continue to rely on those guys to be their best players night in and night out. So I noted this on social media last night. I think Peterson was credited with four total shots on the road trip. Three of them went in. And the fourth one, I believe that was the one where Jake DeBras

scored on the rebound on the power play. So of the four shots that got through to the goalie, all of them were goals for the Vancouver Canucks. So yeah, keep shooting the puck. Elias Pedersen. Batch defensively,

this team is I mean, it's not a good defensive team. I know there's been injuries, but there's also been a system change. And I think we all wondered what it would look like under Adam Foote, and frankly, it doesn't look good. The PK has been a problem, again, personnel issues there for sure.

But I think, you know, even with that known, the defensive play is not sustainable. I agree or disagree? Yeah, I think so. Although, you know, defensive play is an interesting conversation to have because you automatically think, like, oh, it's on the defenseman. And to a certain extent that is true with this team, but at the same time, you have to defend as a five-man unit. And with the injury crisis up front, there are so many times that I can think of lately where they're hemmed in their own zone, they have a chance to get a clear, whether it's a winger on the boards or whatever it might be, and they don't get that clear, and they get hemmed in for an extended stretch. And, you know, either they take a penalty or they give up a grade A chance or they ultimately give up a goal. And, you know, I would be really interested to see how things look defensively for this team if they were healthy, if they had more, you know, NHL regulars in their lineup, because I think, you know, it might be a different picture.

And, you know, not to sit here and say that, like, Derek Forward and Teddy Blugher are going to come back and it's going to make a world of difference for your overall team defensive game. I don't think that is necessarily true. but it would make some sort of difference, I think it's fair to say. For a team right now that, you know, is bleeding goals on the penalty kill and bleeding goals in its own zone, any positive difference, I think, right now would make quite a big difference in terms of some of the results they're trying to get and, you know, trying to keep their head above water. But, yeah, it hasn't been great defensively. They give up a lot of goals.

Obviously, a lot of them are on the penalty kill. And so that's the most concerning part. and, you know, I felt bad for David Camp because he comes into the game yesterday and he was on the ice for five goals against, but, you know, when I interviewed Scott Young for the pregame show about two hours before the game and asked him about David Camp

and he goes, oh, yeah, I just finished going over our systems with him a minute ago. So, you know, this is a guy that just arrived the day before, hasn't played an NHL game yet this season, has only been in four AHL games this season and gets thrown into the fire and expected to help a penalty kill unit that's the worst in the league right away. And obviously, night one didn't go very well for him.

But, you know, if he can continue to grow his game and understand the systems and get to playing at the level that he has in the past, then I think he could help in some of those areas and we'll see how things go. But, you know, yeah, it's not great for them defensively right now. And, you know, I think another thing we have to talk about, too, is, yeah, they, you know, they gave up a lot of goals yesterday. Patera was in net. They give up a lot of shots and a lot of chances.

Their goaltending covers up for a lot of this. Like Thatcher, Demko was, I believe, right at the top in terms of goals saved above expected in the NHL. He'd saved them something in the neighborhood of 10 or 11 goals expected. Before he went out with injury, we know Kevin Lankin and has been holding them in there, too. And I don't think you should ever apologize for good goaltending. But at the same time, if you look about long-term, sustainability, they need to create a better environment for their goaltenders, regardless

of who's in the crease. And unfortunately, it was Yuri Patera last night. Yeah, I mean, we mentioned it in the intro, I did anyway. It's like, I did feel bad for Patera because if you look at the circumstances, like surrendering 41 shots, you would have thought that stylistically or strategically or blueprint, whatever, there would have been some adjustments made to try and insulate a guy who hasn't played a game in three years in the National Hockey League. And I thought actually

You give up seven goals in a game You don't know a good night I think that's fair to say right as a goal You're not happy about it But aside from maybe a couple Where he looked a little slow Or maybe not up the speed of the NHL It was hardly egregious goaltending

It's just the team sort of let him down And really didn't do a good enough job Of like clearing the front of the net That last power play goal by Seth Jones They were just like passing it around at Will And he finally gets one right in the slot It's like he's gonna score that It's one thing to do it when Lankin

and Demco, Annette, I think it's another thing to do it when Yuri Patera is making his team debut. Well, yeah, and to the stylistic point, you know, you could especially lean into being more conservative when you built a two nothing lead in the first period. Good point. Good point.

You know, I could understand, you know, wanting to maybe jump out and get the first goal and provide Petra some insulation. Well, they did that. But then ultimately, you know, I think discipline was a big issue yesterday with the number of power plays they gave to Panthers. And, you know, unfortunately, with the way

the penalty kills going right now, you have very little, if no, margin for error in taking penalties. So that didn't help them in terms of allowing the Panthers to score a couple of times on the power play and get back in the game. But yeah, you know, that would be my mindset too. And, you know, I understand you don't want to like sit back and protect a lead all the time because that's not a sustainable way to win. But in the last game of a road trip, the last game of a three and four against the defending Stanley Cup champions, regardless of how banged out. they are. And with a guy that hasn't played an NHL game in more than 600 days in your crease, I think that maybe is a time where you can say, okay, we're going to be more conservative here. We're going to chip and chase. We're going to have guys behind the puck and try to, you know,

play that defensive style of game. Ultimately, things didn't work out that way for them. And, you know, again, you know, we talk about their resilience all the time. I think they show great resilience to tie it up again early in the third period. But ultimately, those defensive issues reared their head again, and, you know, until they clean things up in their own zone, both at even strength and on the penalty kill, it's going to be really hard for them to win games without scoring four or five goals every night. And although they've been doing that lately, on this road trip in particular, their shooting percentage was incredibly high, so I don't know if that's something that's sustainable going

forward. The one thing that is encouraging on that side of the pocket is the power play. And if it can keep rolling and filling the net like it has been lately, then that's going to give them a chance on most nights. Interesting schedule continues for the Connects. Today is a travel day as they come home from Florida. And then tomorrow Wednesday, I imagine they're going to practice. Thursday they host Dallas.

And then they get a couple more days off. Friday and Saturday are off. They host Calgary on Sunday before they head down for a trip to California, which starts in Anaheim next Wednesday. So they should get some practice days. I'm looking at their schedule, and can you imagine that they'd have three practices over the next week? Yeah, at least, maybe four,

depending on how much they feel like they need to practice, because I expect they'll practice tomorrow, then they play the stars Thursday. There's a possibility they would practice both Friday and Saturday, too. I guess we'll see if they give them a day off in there or not. Then they play Sunday, and then I think you'd either take Monday off and then practice Tuesday before flying

or practice Monday and then just fly on Tuesday or potentially if they really feel like they need practice time they could practice both Monday and Tuesday too and I know this group will need some rest here after all the miles they're traveling so I don't know if I'd say every off day in the next week is going to be a practice day but it wouldn't surprise me if they're aggressive

in trying to get some of that practice time because, you know, to what we've spoken about, that's where you can clean up some of the details that I think are costing them in their own zone right now in terms of, you know, positioning, in terms of where your stick needs to be to, you know, close off a certain lane and things like that where, you know, this is a team over the last few years,

I think that we can say when they don't get that practice time, we see some of those details slip. So, you know, for a team that's barely practiced this year, to be perfectly honest, with the way the schedule's gone, like I think I can count on one hand, the number of practices they've had since the, you know, the start of the season, certainly the number of practices they've had at home with all the travel they've been doing. You know, this is a rare moment to come up for error in the schedule and get to work on some of those things.

And yeah, they'll need their rest, and I'm sure that they'll prioritize that. But, you know, to your point, I would expect at least three practices, if not more, within the last next week. And ultimately, we'll see if that can benefit them in terms of their performance on the ice. And then also, if the schedule lightning here gives them a greater opportunity to get some guys back sooner if they can get guys that need to test some things into practices, whether it be in non-contact jerseys or as full contact participants, to try and ramp them up towards a return to the lineup. Batch, when Patrick Galvin did his availability, did he mention anything about forboard?

I know we got injury updates on a bunch of guys, but I'm not sure we got one on him. no we didn't get one on forward i don't think we got one on neal's hoaglander either uh although the hoaglander return was initially projected to be eight to ten weeks so we're looking like late november early december at the earliest for that because i believe he had surgery right at the end of september like september 29th or something like that so um you know it would be interesting to know if hoaglander is skating yet in his recovery because that would give you an idea, you know, whether it'll be late November, early December or more like mid to late December, maybe after the Christmas break for his return. Yeah, Forbert's a strange one. We haven't

heard a whole lot about it. I don't think anybody's given a firm timeline on his return, which, you know, is not great for a guy that unfortunately has missed a lot of time since he became a Kinnock through a variety of reasons, whether it be injury or personal circumstances. His father passed away midway through last season and he had to miss some time. But yeah, man, they can use him right now on the penalty kill on the third pairing. They do really miss him, yeah. And so, you know, hopefully there's some good news

there, I'm sure, you know, as the team gets home here, Adam Foote, will answer some of those questions or be asked them at the very least when they return to practice tomorrow or within the next few days and we'll see, but you know, we've heard about he'll all back skating and we've heard

about Bluger, you know, still probably week to week, which makes me wonder if there was a set back there because he was practicing with the team before the road trip and then, you know, didn't go on the trip with them and ultimately didn't play over the last three games, but things have been quiet around Ford, and I can't imagine that's a good thing. Batch, this was great, buddy. Thanks for taking the time to do it, as always.

We appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the week. We'll do this again next week. Sounds good. Thanks, boys. Thank you. That's Brendan Batchelor, Play-by-Play voice of the Vancouver Canucks here on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet, 650.

Some of the other scores from last night around the National Hockey League that we might have missed. I think we mentioned this one briefly but another tough night in what has been a season of tough nights for the Edmonton Oilers defeated 5-1 by the Buffalo Sabers in Buffalo on Monday night and a game where when you see the five goals

hung on the board, you think it might have been a goaltending issue but some debate on that one Mark Specter writing for Sportsnet.com. He said you can't hang this one on the goalies. Other people on social media had other things to say but spec was especially critical of another night. where guys not named McDavid and Dry Cytle

failed to show up and put something on the board. And Zach Hyman is back, right? Is Newchert? I don't know. Okay. But I'm like, you know, yeah, you can rely on Drycidal and McDavid. I know Roselovic has scored a few. You know, he scored last night on, what do you know,

a nice pass from Leon Drysiddle. But look, I'm at daily faceoff right now. and this is the way they've got the lines configured. So they don't have nudge here, which is why I wonder if he was hurt. He is. Him and Casperi Kappaninan will be out until December. Okay, not worried about Cappanin,

but Nuge would be a big loss. The top line, McDavid, Drysidle, and Hyman, right? Here's the second line. Roselvic between Podkoulson and Matt Savoy. The third line is Adam Henrique, Trent Frederick, who has not been good, and Andrew Mangiopani.

The fourth line, which barely played last night in Buffalo, Noah Philp? Yep, he's a guy. Curtis Lazar. He's a guy. And Matthias Janmark. There's no, they don't have enough forwards. Their depth is terrible.

And I don't know what they're going to do about it because they've already traded away a bunch of futures. It is a very difficult trademark to get anything. I mean, just ask the Vancouver Canucks. And, you know, when we're not even mentioning the goaltending issue, which I don't know if they're going to be able to solve, I think they're probably just going to have to roll with, you know, Skinner and Pickard. And who's the other guy that they picked up?

Laddie, who's the goalie? Connor Ingram. Connor Ingram. How's he? He's in Bakersfield. Last I checked, the numbers were not great. Baker? Okay.

So the numbers weren't great for him. So, like, I, I'm looking at this team and, like, I'm happy that they're not doing well, but, you know, I think this is the reason, and everyone's saying, like, this is the reason why McDavid wouldn't commit long term, because in getting to these back-to-back Stanley Cup finals, they spent a lot of their capital and futures in doing that. And that's what happens, right? And some of, you know, one of the things I kind of wanted to throw out there is like, you know, with all this rebuild talk and you have to remember that hockey players are perishable items, right? They get older. They get miles on on the body. You really, you know, to bring it back to to botch, like you need an army. Like you need a large core of players that are all in the right age range

and then you supplement it with veterans here and there and young players here and there. But like the one thing that the Canucks I don't think have done very well at all is like marshal their resources so that they're all coming at the same time. Right? they've had trickles of young players here and there but not like a swarm of quality young players well and that's how it's going to continue friend because whilst you were on vacation

gallivanting down in cabo um jamie dodd narrated almost the entirety of the jim rutherford interview with ian mackinty from last friday i know and it was very much the synopsis of it it was they still want to exist in both worlds where they continue to add good young players with the fewest amount of draft picks available to them because they're not trading for picks because they're not going to rebuild

and they're going to try and continue to go forward with this core of really good players that they've got. They also aren't going to trade any of their young players because they really like them. So again, it's this whole stuck-in-two-worlds kind of thing. And there was a lot of frustration on Friday when we were reading a lot of the answer that Rutherford gave to IMAX questions and in part because there was a groundhog day effect.

It's like, here we go again. And I know you pointed out on Twitter some of the similarities between what Benning was saying back in 2014 to what the current regime is saying 11 years later and how it's this endless cycle. But to the point that kicked this all off with the Oilers, you're seeing it right now what happens when you don't have the aforementioned army there. Because what Noblock is done and what every coach is done when the oil. Foyler's face these issues is load up McDavid and Drysidl.

So last night, for example, McDavid and Drysail both played over 23 minutes because no one else was doing anything. That fourth line that you mentioned of Philp and Yanmark and Lazzar none of them played over 10 minutes. They were all sub 10 minutes. So you can do that.

But the residual effect is you have to rely on McDavid and Drysiddle who were also a year older and have more miles on the odometer. earlier and earlier every year to get you out of this hole. So when it comes time to the playoffs, they've got more wear on the tires and more. Like it's not easy to shoulder the load in the postseason,

never mind all of the regular season. This is when the Savoys and the Howard's and the Fredericks are supposed to do some of the heavy lifting. And it's not happening. And it's a real. Savoy and Howard just aren't ready. But they were supposed to be. And they're not.

Yeah. Right? And that's what happens when you're only banking on one or two young guys. to fill the void. If you had other options... The margin for error is nil. Right. You've got none.

Like, if these guys don't work out, what's the option? And you never want to be in that situation, right? If this one thing doesn't work out, what happens? And too often the Canucks have been in that situation as well. Yeah, the Oilers and Canucks aren't comparable, though, because the Oilers have been back to back. They've been so close, right? The situations aren't comparable.

It's understandable. It's understandable for an Oilers team to be like, oh, we just, like, we spend a lot of our futures. Like, now we're in a tough, spot some of our core players are getting a little bit older the situations are that's what happened the situations aren't meant to be comparable but the um core problem can go to a lot of different NHL teams at a lot of different stages of their evolution and one of them is when you rely on everything going right or you rely on one or two things it's a fool's errand because oftentimes things go

wrong injuries happen and if you look at it this year like two-thirds of the NHL is injured right And so it becomes this thing where it's like, are you going to complain about your injuries or are you going to say, we're better equipped to deal with this than other NHL franchises? Because, hey, Florida last night had a ton of talented guys out of the lineup

and lost players during that game. Right? And they're built different. They're built to withstand those sorts of things. You saw Tampa Bay the other night right now. They're not built to deal with it, right? They're going through some really hard time. Something's off in Tampa.

Well, they got a lot of injuries. I know, but something's, something's off. Yeah. Okay, I got to do one to watch before we go to break, brought to you by Limitless AV Vancouver's most trusted audiovisual integration experts. I'm going to go to the New York Rangers and J.T. Miller. You're the one to watch tonight because us West Coasters are going to get to see you in our version of prime time. The Rangers are in Vegas tonight to take on the Golden Night.

So it's a 7 p.m. puck drop for us on the West Coast. And you'll get to see J.T. Miller. He of the four goals in 20 games this year. he of the nine points through 20 games. Canucks traded the wrong guy. It has not been a good start to the captaincy season for J.T. Miller in New York. We will see if that ship can get righted or if he's going to be on pace for what would be one of the lowest goal and point totals of his NHL career. J.T. Miller, you're one to watch tonight as the Rangers take on Vegas in Vegas.

It's brought to you by Limitless A.V. Vancouver's most trusted audiovisual. integration experts, specializing in seamless video conferencing solutions and hybrid workspaces. Book your personalized tour of their experience center today at limitlessavvy.ca. Open segment coming up. You're listening to the Halford Inbrough show on SportsNet 650. Hey, it's Big Nazar. Have your say and join me on the People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets,

weekdays three to four on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcast. This isn't going to be something that Pedersen just snaps his fingers at and he's just right back to the player that he used to be. But in all honesty, can you sit here and say that he hasn't taken really good steps as this year's gone on? People keep asking if I'm back, and I haven't really had an answer. But now, yeah, I'm thinking I'm making progress. 735 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday, everybody.

Halford, Braves. Sports 10th, 650. The Big Man music really made that clip, I thought. So I saw that clip on social prior to us playing it. And either I read it wrong or I misinterpreted it, but I thought they were saying that Pederset hasn't taken steps this year. I'm like, damn, we're negative. Damn.

Not points, but he's still, you know. Why are we bringing this up today of all the days? Now that I've heard it, it makes a little more sense. Eight points in four games isn't enough. It's got to be 16. It's got to be more. We need more. Yep.

You are listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brats you by Sands and Associates. Get out of the penalty box of debt and back into the game with the financial press start. Visit them online of sands-trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program with the midway point of the show. Hour two is brats by Jason hominock at jason. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at jason.

Dot mortgage. Okay, we're going to dip into the Dunbar Lembert text line at 650, 650. And I will apologize to Halford because I guess you got a lot of the rebuild talk while I was on vacation. You don't have to apologize for that. You don't have to.

Like Patrick Alvin, mostly. And to a lesser degree, Scott Oak. But Bob and Burnaby texted in and he said, discuss what a rebuild is. And he said, what it seems is a rebuild here or what has talked about is a quick drop in the standings,

a trade of a player likely to leave but has no trade protection and a very deep draft the number of young players getting experienced now. Okay, for me, and I kind of touched on this on the last segment,

a rebuild is a accumulation of futures that occurs while the team isn't doing very well and has an advantage of getting higher draft picks because of that and it's an accumulation of picks whether they're first round or second round or third rounders it's for me it's a rebuild starts with the draft there is other stuff because if your rebuild starts

to be successful then you do have to maybe make some trades or some free agent signings like I think about the Blackhawks back in the day acquiring Hosa, right? That helped put them over the top, right? And they had to make some changes here or there, right? I mean, they're in the Blackhawks dynasty, they went through a few goalies, right? So everything, not all rebuilds are the same, but I think if you were to ask me, what frustrates you most about the Canucks is like they haven't made many draft picks? No.

Like over the last, you know, decade or so, they just... They made some... Every time. So, okay, so let's go back to the Chicago Blackhawks. Okay. And how they put together that team that won three Stanley Cups. Okay. You know, everyone talks about, well, you know, they got Patrick Cain first overall and Jonathan Taves.

What they don't talk about is all the first round picks that they blew. Yep. Like, Jack Skilly, seventh overall. Canucks legend Jack Scilly. Cam Barker, third overall. That was in the Balkan Ovechkin year. Because they made so many picks either in the first round, in 2004, they had, I'm just looking at it right now, four second round picks. One of those, they find a guy, a key guy like Dave Boland.

Another guy, Brian Bickle. Now, Ryan Garlock didn't work out, and Jacob Sindell didn't work out. But it didn't matter because they had so many picks, right? And, you know, you find guys like Dustin Bufflin in the eighth round. Doesn't even exist anymore. Right? It's just that's where it starts for me. It's like get lots of picks.

Hope you have some core players that are high character players that want to win. and are going to be able to suffer through some tough years. Like, hopefully for Chicago's sake, but art is that guy, right? And he's got the character to be the leader and to go through the tough times. And it looks like he does, right? Because he's having a terrific year this year.

But he's going to need more than, they're going to need more than that. But if you look at all the picks that the hawks have made, like he's going to have help. So that for me is, like, if you ask what a rebuild is, is like, there's a lot that goes into it. But it absolutely starts with making a ton of draft picks. And in order to do that, you do have to trade.

You have to trade some of your veterans and accumulate picks so that at one point, and you might, guess what, there's no guarantees here. There's no guarantees. You might be like Buffalo. People can text in like, look at what Buffalo did. Yeah, Buffalo, they didn't work for them. And it still hasn't work for them. That's the risk.

But the other risk is doing what we've been doing for the last decade, right? There's a risk there. There's a risk in constantly using your cap space to sign guys as opposed to weaponizing your cap space and accumulating draft picks. That's what a rebuild is. The Canucks haven't done a full-on rebuild. Yeah, they got some players in the draft, and they drafted high with guys, and they found guys like Pedersen and Hughes,

and that was great. But obviously they needed to do more. There wasn't enough that came through the door that was drafted. And what happens is what you've seen with the Canucks in that they were never able to marshal so many resources that they're like, wow, look at all this talent. This is incredible the amount of talent that we've got coming. Right. So one of the one of the chief. frustrations with what Rutherford said and what Jim Benning said in the previous iteration of management was oftentimes those that don't go down the road of the rebuild will point to, well, you know, you can tear it all down. You can get all these picks, but sometimes the picks don't work out. And it's such an empty argument because I think what you're acknowledging in the diatribe rant that you just went on is that you need to accumulate a lot of picks because it's ridiculous to think that you're going to hit on the few that you get.

Also, the Buffalo argument's stupid because it's the exception, not the rule. More often than not, it does work. When it doesn't work, it's Buffalo. But usually it does work. At least you've got that chance that it's really going to work well. Yeah. You know? People say rebuilds are just as likely to not work.

Yeah, we know. But they aren't. That's not true because most of the time the rebuilds breed successful teams. And then this guy mentions, it's unsigned. He goes, see Buffalo, Toronto, Edmonton Island. Toronto's rebuild worked They couldn't get over the hump though Like they had very very good teams

They had excellent teams I guess you got to define what rebuild work means Maybe some people think oh it's a cup or bust But I think being a Stanley Cup contender for multiple years Is is working And like the Toronto Maple Leaves They have been the playoffs nine years now They were a very good team

They ran up against some very good teams They also choked a few times But like they whose past decade has been more successful Toronto's or Vancouver? Clearly Toronto's. Clearly. Yeah.

And that was because it was the sort of standard model of tear it down, accumulate a lot, and work your way back up. Also, if you look at the dynasties of like the past decade or decades prior, like whether it be Tampa or Chicago or Pittsburgh, if you want to call them that, or L.A. when they were winning all their cups. Like those were all teams that drafted well. And they build from their resources up. I feel kind of bad because it's a bit reductive what we're doing here.

Like I think most people that understand what a rebuild is know exactly what you're talking about. No, no, no. But I actually, I'll push back on that because I think a lot of people think that the Kinex did rebuild. And that's how they acquired Hughes and Pedersen. There was never a year where they were like, you know what? we don't care if we make the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, if people think that way, I'm not sure you're ever going to convince them otherwise, right?

Like, I don't even think what you said over the last 10 minutes is going to convince otherwise. Like, that's not what you're talking about. What you're talking about is what the New York, I mean, I think the New York Rangers probably crystallized it better than anyone when they literally put a sale, like a for sale sign up. And they did it in this season. You'll forget where they were two points out of a playoff spot

when they just announced they're like, it starts now. and they weren't afraid to say the word. They weren't afraid to act with swiftness and a direction that was unflinching. They knew exactly what they wanted to do and exactly where they were going to go. And what was the word that a lot of them,

the Leafs did it and the Rangers did? There's going to be pain involved with this. It's going to be painful to say goodbye to the guys that you like. Buffalo's word was suffering and they're still suffering. So of course, there's risk there. But I'll tell you what's more. It's crazy, like, people will say, like, well, rebuilds don't always work. Well, what does?

I mean, one team wins the Stanley Cup every year. But I think what we've seen from most Stanley Cup winners is that they went through a number of years of being a bad team and made a lot of draft picks along the way. Right. And so the other interesting part of this was, When this whole conversation happened last week. And it was interesting because the week was really bookended by this talk. Monday we came in, Dodd and I on the show, and we had the Alveen after hours Hockey Night in Canada interview with Scott Oak to parse through

where Oak asked four or five pretty pointed questions about a rebuild. So the conversation was hot going into Monday. Well, it was the Rutherford thing that really set it over the edge. Let me finish. Yeah. Then we go to Friday and we bookended the conversation where now you've got the president. of hockey ops, doubling down to put like the end

of the week, just to remind all of you, there's not going to be a rebuild coming. Not in the traditional sense, not in what the fans want. Even if Quinn Hughes leaves, that was the big part of it. Even if our best player leaves, we will not start over.

We'll keep trying to make the playoffs every single year. So intentional or not, plan or not, the narrative, beginning and end of the week was nothing's changing. We're going to go about our business the same way. The interesting thing for me was that what was at one point clear and pointed frustration from a large majority of the fan base, and don't get me wrong, the frustration is still

there, but there's a lot of people, more than I remember and quite frankly care to admit and acknowledge, have fallen into the apathy path when it comes to this team. Because when you keep banging your head against the desk, it's like, why won't you do the things that we want you to do at the very least to try something new and even the idea is snuffed out after a while people stop fighting the good fight. Yeah. And after a while

people stop getting worked up about it and it's a sense of resignment. Well we've done that too. I mean we've gone through spells on our show where we don't even entertain it because we're like they're not going to do it. They never have. And it's fine with us because we can talk about a lot of different things and we can entertainer and we

can go in a lot of different directions. But for ardent fans, of the team, I've looked around the NHL and I have seen other markets where the fan base has tapped out because they're frustrated and they don't want to be frustrated anymore. Frustrations are not a fun feeling. It's not a fun feeling. People don't enjoy it. People don't wake up every morning and be like, I can't wait to get frustrated today.

It's going to be great. I'm really looking forward. You know what's going to be awesome is when I get super frustrated. You know what I love the feeling of it is hopelessness. Yeah. And that can lead to a lot of different things. It basically goes hopelessness, dispense. and then acceptance.

And it's just like you just throw your hands up. Where's apathy in that? Right? Well, apathy's right there. I don't know if it'll ever translate to like butts and seats, tickets sold, all that kind of. And it has to go to an incredible amount. You mentioned Buffalo.

I think what concerns a lot of people is that Buffalo is at that stage right now, where there's too many people that are apathetic towards the Sabres and not enough people that are angry, right? But I also think, like if you want to talk about how Buffalo has failed, I mean, their culture there has been I don't even want to say culture because sometimes culture can be tough in a rebuild when you're losing.

Their leadership. Their failure has been dreadful. They're absolutely dreadful. Yeah, Tony Gee, it's like, it's a real dog's breakfast there in Buffalo. To be fair. And that's actually the nicest meal on the board.

That's a good one. To be fair, that failure is one of them. Can we just get them on the show once just to hear you guys talk in the same voice back and forth? I don't even, See you if people could tell the difference? I don't even like doing a Tony G impression because it doesn't even come close to BMAX. Like BMAX.

Oh, yeah. That's the classic. So I like, I don't even like doing it because I was kind of like, no, there's only one 20G impression. It's still in my bed. It belongs to BMAQ. Yeah. But further to this point, Buffalo is a one-of-one unique failure, I would say. It is going, I mean, it's on pace to be like one of the most historic playoff droughts in all of

North American sports, right? It's very difficult, very difficult to miss the playoffs, the amount of times the Sabres have done in the National Hockey League. Every now and again, a team just kind of flukes its way in. And they haven't even been able to do that. So again, to use them as this example of what could go wrong. Sure, because they exist and they're an NHL team and someone could replicate it. But it's incredibly hard to do what Buffalo is done. And it's not just the losing. It's losing a fan base that was passionately behind that team. Now you have to stink for. a long time to get to where they're at. But when you see the signs of apathy creeping in, that's as big of a red flag for me as anything. Right? Because for the longest time, this organization has been, is defined this market

sports-wise. It's been, I've always said it. It's not a sports market. It's not even a hockey market. It's a Canucks town. Yeah. And the possibility of that going out the window because every year that this goes along where fans get more and more frustrated,

and then kind of dialing out? The passion, you know, a lot of people will complain about the market. It's so toxic and there's so much noise in the market. And what I always say is that is worth hundreds of millions in franchise value. It is the difference in the franchise value for Vancouver and the franchise value for, I don't know, Calgary, frankly. You know, like the Canucks are. they're uniquely discussed in this market, as you say. And right now, there's some competition for the Canucks

with the Vancouver Whitecaps and what they're doing. There's a PWHL team now that's going to get some attention and I think a lot of support. Now, can those teams overtake the Canucks? Probably not. But, you know, I think the apathy thing, when people feel like, well, nothing's going to ever change. It's just going to be like this. That's an issue for the team.

It's a big issue. There's, I mean, I don't know, if you want to even take, like, the white caps, the sport that they play and you look at some of the European leagues and how passionate the support is and how it reaches every level of the club. And oftentimes it's not just a visceral reaction to the players on the pitch. There's a direct shot at the architects of the team and executives and management, all that stuff. Because that's really the direction. Like the players are out there and they're wearing the laundry, but that changes, right? The guys wearing the laundry can change with pretty good regularity. And I think we're at a very interesting inflection time with this organization, but a large part because of the Quinn Hughes future.

Like it goes without saying, right? But I've always said, like, people will say, well, when, when, if Hughes leaves, they'll be forced to do a rebuild. And I always say, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, no. Don't think that. No. Don't think that. Like that, you know, I, God, I remember one of the most, I would say, frustrating, although I was a part journalist, part fan, asking Benning. I was at a draft. I can't remember. It might have been in Chicago. go. And I was asking him about trading Chris Tannav. I was like, I was like, do you, I just ask him something about like, why, why do you seem so hesitant to trade a guy like Chris Tannave

considering the position of your team? And he said to me, he's like, well, if we trade Chris Tanov, that's a really good defenseman. So we need to get a defenseman back. It was the best snapshot. And I was kind of like, yeah, but you guys. guys are bad. It was the best snap. You need a future, man. And then ultimately what was hilarious is that, not hilarious, but, yeah,

kind of hilarious, but Tannave leaves for nothing, right? At the end of all that, he leaves for nothing right out of time. In free agency. And I felt like it was just two guys having a completely different conversation because Benning was sitting there going, I've got to put together a team

for next year. And I'm sitting there going like, who cares about next year? Think three four or five years down the line and it was just like it was just like this disconnect there he's like but I will be here then oh wait actually I am going to be here then

it was the most it was like him saying like listen like I've got a job to do and that's put a team on the ice that's as good as possible do you remember when Rutherford came in and said like I know everyone here is impatient and then

Drant said Drant's asked him like well how long do you think it's going to take and you know I'm paraphrasing here but he was like I don't know like a year like no like no feel free to take more time here we go again here we go again feel free to take more time and and you know and it's it's just there's always been that disconnect between not the entire fan base but I think a large portion of the fan base and management slash ownership but it's the most those are two of the most instructive snapshots you're ever going to get

into the organizational mentality. Like, it's not like anyone's hiding this. It's in plain view. It's in plain view. I mentioned that the Kinnock's bookended last week about the messaging from above. You can call it intentional or not, whatever the case, like it's right there staring you in the face.

What you want to happen is not going to happen. What you think they should do, they're not going to do, and the direction you think they're going to take, they're not going to take. And no one's dancing around it. No one's trying to hide it. The messaging is clear. Also, the messaging is clear that we need to go to break

because we're way up against it for time. Hour three on the horizon on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Mike Kelly's going to join us. NHL analyst from SportsLogic and NHL Network. We'll talk to him about what's going on around the league. Ask about the parody, the mediocrity around the National Hockey League. Also get into some Olympic talk.

Which guys are playing their way onto Olympic squads? Which guys are playing their way off? We'll get into all that with Mike on the other side of the break. You're listening to the Halford and Brough show on SportsNet 650. It's a real dog's breakfast there in Buffalo. To be fair. And that's actually the nicest meal on the board.