Halford & Brough in the Morning - Elite Fives and Replacement Guys

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

In Hour 1, Josh Elliott-Wolfe and Thomas Drance discuss what happened in the world of sports last night. The Canucks took down the Sharks in a 4-3 victory, and the guys had lots to say after Petey got a pair of goals. The Toronto Raptors are fun to watch even if they don't win, and what NFL team boasts the best defense? Then Frank Seravalli joins to answer our hockey questions. Are the Canucks contenders or pretenders? How can this team upgrade themselves before the trade deadline? This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Whoa, wait a minute. Huh? Hold up. What? Oh, okay. Did we just lose to the f***ing Canucks? You're listening to Halford & Brough. Patterson settles right wing boards. Towards the net. Shoots. He scores! I like his celebration after. I like that.

It was nice to see a guy like him score like that and get excited. Yeah, I wouldn't miss out on the three-way at 8.30 in the morning. Thanks, Trancer. Ladies and gentlemen. Santa! Oh, my God! Good morning, Vancouver. It is Halford and Brough.

Welcome to the show. No Halford, no Brough. It's Josh Elliott-Wolf and Thomas Drance here with you, coming to you live from the Kintec Studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews, sore feet, what are you waiting for, Kintec. I am Josh Elliott-Wolf.

We've got producers Zach. Hello. Good morning. Hello. We've got Laddie. Hello. Hello, hello. You caught Zach by surprise.

I know. He was, like, staring at me for a minute. And Thomas Drantz. How are you? Merry Christmas, one and all. Merry Christmas. I'm doing well. It's Christmas Eve.

Yeah. Merry Christmas, you can start saying it, what, a week out? Yeah. Well, like, yeah. Like, yeah, a week out. I think a week out. If someone said it to me on the 15th, I'd be like, little, little farther, buddy. You'd be like, F you.

I mean, am I shopping yet? Anyway, you know, you start to say Merry Christmas every time you part or every time you buy something. Doesn't it make you feel like a hero every time you wish someone a Merry Christmas? The worst is when they wish it to you and you just have to be like, you too. Merry Christmas. You beat me to it. Thanks, I guess. I can't believe it.

You hate to lose a Canadian standoff. No, I mean, Christmas Eve, I hope everyone has a lovely time with their families. I hope everyone drives safe. I already saw some really bad driving on my walk over here. Great. Remember, Christmas is also stressful for lots of people, right? So this show in particular, we're doing it for you, people who are working through Christmas Eve,

especially healthcare workers, people sacrificing time with their families. So anyway, I hope you have a lovely holiday to everyone listening. You can text in on the 650-650 Dunbar-Lumber text line. We're going to do an Ask Us Anything Christmas Eve because there's no show on Friday. So just ask us questions. AUA on the text line, 650-650. And the last word of AUA is anything. So ask us about anything. Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors

and rental warriors for over 50 years. Visit Dunbar Lumber at one of their three locations to serve you or online at DunbarLumber.com. Halford & Brough is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. And this hour of Halford & Brough is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling. They's premier metal recycler, pays the highest prices on scrap metal.

Northstar Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. 1170 Powell Street. Today on the show, it's still the full show, Christmas Eve, and guests were still very willing to come on. It's so nice to hear. We got Frank Ceravalli of Daily Faceoff. He's going to be at 8.30, so about 25 minutes from now. At 9.30, Nick Shook, writer for

NFL.com, will let Drant ask 20 NFL questions again, because this is your last fill for a while. Yeah, let's go. And then you've got to go back to Canucks talk. I've got some Packers takes. Josh has some work to do on the side while you conduct the interview. I've got some Christmas shopping to do. I'm just

going to leave. I'll come back. Landon Ferraro at 10 o'clock will join us to talk Canucks. And, yeah, Canucks. They played last night. So that's what's happening on the show. Let's get into what happened. Hey, did you guys see

the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be what happened you missed that what happened what happened is brought to you by the bc construction safety alliance making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools resources and safety training visit bccsa.ca we will start with last night's game the vancouver canucks they beat the san jose sharks four to three head into the break on a win do the vancouver canucks elias petterson

he scored two goals and nothing of consequence happened after now he was uh he missed he played one shift in the third period he He missed the remainder of the game. And just before we move on, let's play that clip from Rick Tockett about the potential injury to Elias Pettersson. Yeah, he got banged up. I think it was in the second. So he tried one shift, and we got the break. So I don't think it's too bad.

We'll see how it is. So that is the update on Elias Pettersson. We won't hear from the team for a few days, so we'll see where that's at when the Canucks come back. But 4-3 win, Elias Pettersson scores twice. The Vancouver Canucks beat the Sharks. How grinchy should I be about a Canucks victory before Christmas? Go full out.

You think so? Bring out the Grinch. Bring out the Grinchy should I be about a Canucks victory before Christmas? Go full out. You think so? We want full out. Bring out the Grinch. Bring out the Grinch. It's the opposite of what the kids in Whoville ask every Christmas. I thought that was until his heart grew through stazes, and then he becomes an integrated part of the community. Yeah.

Still waiting for that for you, Drance. It'll come. Oh, we'll get there. We just need two years for everyone's opinion to catch up to mine. Just need a cup. Anyway, we'll get there. We just need two years for everyone's opinion to catch up to mine. Just need a cup. Anyway, the. Here's the thing. There are such a thing as a concerning win.

Okay. And that was one for me. And here's why. The Canucks five on five gear right now. Is so low that I actually think the San Jose Sharks were throwing a fastball that the Canucks were struggling to catch up to. Now, they did sort of take over by about the midway point of the second period, I thought, five on five. And then they got so many goals off of Askarov mistakes that by the time that sort of onslaught was done, the game was kind of over.

The Sharks don't really know how to win yet, right? And you could see it like early in the game, it was 0-0 and Macklin Celebrini sends a spin pass into like from sort of low in the zone, cross ice, east-west, and Connor Garland is all over it, which became a theme of the game. Connor Garland was reading Macklin Celebrini's East-West passes,

especially off of entries, but really all over the ice expertly. And that to me is like a classic, hey, this 18-year-old guy has played 25 NHL games and you can see what a difference maker he already is. But there's another level in terms of learning how to win at this level, right, in the show, the hardest league in the world, that he's going to figure out as time goes on and that he's not quite there yet. That's fine. We've seen that, right? This is not criticism of Celebrity,

who did something pretty amazing later in the game that I want to talk about. The Canucks go the other way, and they can't even get a shot off, and there's an odd man rush for the Canucks go the other way and they can't even get a shot off. And there's an odd man rush for the Canucks. And it's like the sequence that ends up causing the penalty. And then they, and then Eklund draws the other one and the Canucks are down one, nothing early in the game.

And I was like shocked in the moment because I'm so used to the Canucks capitalizing off of mistakes, like seeing those opportunities, sniffing them out. And then when they get them, you know, whether you score or not on that chance, it's like you retrieve it,

you get a partial change. And then it's like three shifts have happened with the Canucks playing in the opposite end of the rink. And then they get a goal either off a deflection or whatever, but it all stems back from the sort of mistake that Celebrini made to, but this team right now doesn't have the offensive gear to take advantage of those errors. Right. And so they're left sort of mistake that Celebrini made. But this team right now doesn't have the offensive gear to take advantage of those errors, right? And so they're left sort of, you get a greasy goal

to get back in the game 1-1. You get an unscreened wrist shot goal from Sherwood, a brutal play by Askarov. Askarov has to have that. Then you've got Askarov kicking a gift of a rebound. Merry Christmas, he shouted to Elias Pettersson as Pettersson click, click, click, snapped it into the net. What a gift.

You guys getting anything like that for Christmas? Holy cow. Probably not. I might be giving out a couple of it. Garland's in so tight. If Askarov stays back there, he's mashing it off his pad. I don't know. I know Askarov stays back there, he's mashing it off his pad. Like, I don't know. I know Askarov was good against Edmonton Laddy,

and I know you don't do goalie besmirchment, but I'm not sure that's it. Well, the night-to-night consistency is what you've got to look for in a younger bullpenner, and it's not a good start. That was a poorly goaltended game. He also had that weird moment where he was like, you know what? I'm coming out of the net right now.

That puck is mine. And the Canucks were like, well, we'll let you get back in that before we do anything about that. But the Canucks, why do the Canucks get so many of these? I feel like we've had five this season. Five bizarre goalie charges Canucks puck handler

for no reason moments. No? We got Kachetkov. We had one a couple games ago, too. Someone who got away with it. I can't remember who it was. Yeah, I have a theory about this. Do you?

It's that the Canucks don't shoot enough for the goalies to feel fully into the game. And so they're just like, you know what I need to do? Play the puck. And that'll get me back into it. That probably wasn't it last night because Askarov was pretty active at that point. Yeah. I think he just wanted to let in another bad goal.

Anyway, as much as the Canucks looked like they were on the verge of actually churning that game in their favor, they generated almost nothing offensively five on five and honestly looked like a team that was going to struggle to hit San Jose's five-on-five fastball all night, or at the very least was evenly matched. And this Sharks team, they're not two free points anymore, but also I think they're going to be like a 72-point team at the end of the season.

That's what's going to represent meaningful improvement for them this year. And by the way, that is meaningful improvement for them this year. That's a big step. But you better have a higher five-on-five fastball than that. You have to. Like, we're at the stage now.

We're at the stage now where it's been like 20 games of this, where the Canucks are, whether, you know, there's been like over the last 20 games, the Canucks have played two games, the Florida game and the Colorado game, where you could see the fastball. And the other 18 have been like deeply concerning right they've looked like outmatched against teams like detroit

against teams like utah you know they've looked evenly matched against teams like san jose like teams like buffalo and and i mean it's been a long stretch this isn't a one game thing so i'm glad they got the win. I'm glad Pedersen got the two. The snipe on the fourth goal was the one that I wouldn't fault Askarov on, by the way. That was just nasty stuff. That was a vintage Pedersen shot on the power play. Nasty, nasty stuff.

Even the first one, looking back at it, I don't know if I'd fault Askarov too much on it. It goes right through him. No, the first one. The Besser one? The Besser goal? The first Pedersen goal. Oh. He kicks, what are you doing?

He kicks it out because Garland is to his left, and he wants to stop them from funneling the puck to that side, so he kicked it out to an area he thought was clear. He's in so tight, lad. Three of his players are all along the goal line. He didn't expect Pedersen to be all alone in the slot. He thought he was kicking it to a better area, and on most teams he would have been,

but on the San Jose Sharks he was not kicking it to a better area. Yeah, I don't know. It was an intentional move, but it turned out horribly in hindsight. It was a terrible decision, is my point. But blaming him entirely on that one. No, no, no. I'd be fully in on that one if Garland was further back. Garland was so in tight. Like, way

too tight. But he was trying to cut the puck off from getting to Garland, which is why he kicked his leg out. I get it, but I'm just saying, like, when a guy's in that tight, all you have to do is be low and center net. In hindsight. Not in hindsight, in real time. No, isn't that the real read? A lot of times you can cut it off, you can

make the aggressive move, and Askarov, as you're going to notice, he's going to make the aggressive move most of the time. The goalie people I text with were killing him for that goal. Killing him. Well, in hindsight, like I said, it wasn't a great spot, but if you look where his three teammates are on that goal, they're all flat along the goal line and leaving Pedersen wide open in the slot.

And that was another play, so that third goal was another play where you have the Celebrini rush down the left wing, and he takes a pretty dangerous on-screen shot at Demko that Demko's able to get his shoulder up and stop, and I think Celebrini was, you know, down 2-1, was kind of like frustrated. He won the game.

The old Rick Tockett, Desmond, Bishop Desmond 2-2 quote, right? He wanted to eat the elephant all in one bite, right? Can't do that. And that was another one where he crosses the blue, spin pass in East-West. Connor Garland reads the heck out of it. Connor Garland reading more East West Macklin Celebrini passes last night than all of our listeners will read

Christmas stories to their children tonight. Like truly, he was a whole library of reads for Connor Garland last night. But that was another moment where Celebrini's transitional game, his game management, right? You could tell that this is an 18-year-old player. The one

moment, though, where you could also tell that this was an 18-year-old player who's like 12 months away from maybe being a superstar in this league, the 4-3 goal for San Jose came too late to matter. I wouldn't even consider that to have been a one-goal win for the Canucks, right? They won by two.

Yes, last goal came with four, like, five seconds. And it came with so little time left that Coonan was like, yeah, and then was like, oh, we don't have enough time. And then they ran a cool set. Like, they looked like they had a cool set played, you know, decked up, but JT Miller obviously turned it into a shot on net, which is very badass by the way but if you go watch that six on five sequence Macklin Celebrini goes and tries to spam he's shooting for the rebound very explicitly Laddie did you notice this twice because he tries it and it doesn't

quite get kicked out the way he wants and the next moment the puck comes back he's like i still like that look and does the exact same thing i love that that's a that's a high iq play from celebrini creates the 4-3 goal and that's that's the moment where you can see it in addition to all the stuff that he was able to do through the neutral zone all the stuff he was able to do in terms of winning battles and um just like immense skill plays that that's like the ruthlessness to be like i found something that works i'm gonna spam it yeah he was good the canucks also by the way to their credit figured out what works too they put pucks on askerov yeah and that let him beat himself that was a key of the game was the canucks shooting pucks at the san jose sharks goaltend my only

point is the scar was a bit on an island there on that team. Give them a bit of a break. But, I mean, they're better this year. But, yeah, I mean, you're right. Defensively, they're still the San Jose Sharks. They have some work to do. You know what, though? They do look well coached,

and the Canucks 100% tried to push them around all night, and the Sharks absolutely had enough fire in their belly to not let them get away with it through that cheap hit on quinn hughes after like because deharne had interfered with i don't remember who it was but behind the net there was like this clear four checking sequence the canucks actually got a scoring chance out of it and deharne like flies back and basically throws up throws a lineman block behind the net, and then they'd gotten away with another hook while creating that scoring chance. And I think that's why I don't remember who decked Hughes.

Who was it who had to fight Heinen? It was, ooh, number 53, Delandria. Okay, right. Well, no, Delandria? Oh, right, it was Delandria, who also pissed them off. Who did he deck in the first period? No, it was Hughes. Anyway, Delandria, who also pissed them off. Who did he deck in the first period? No, it was Hughes. Anyway, Delandria decks Hughes, and that was, like, I hate seeing Quinn Hughes

take a cheap shot, don't get me wrong, but I love seeing a young team be like, hey, I know you guys are the, no, Delandria mashed Bluger. Yes. And did he also mash Hughes? He was the guy that fought Heinen. Oh, okay, okay. Because of the Bluger. I don't remember who mashed Hughes.

Somebody mashed Hughes. I appreciate the way that they, in a game in which the Canucks were very explicitly trying to push them around and sun them, had enough fire in their belly to not accept that and throw some cheap stuff back. Love that. They are a chippier team than I thought they might be.

Just figuring out how to win. Showing somerespect i love it yeah and that's that i i did uh i was i was i came away from that game impressed with the sharks but i kind of have been throughout the season yep and i i do think they're going to be better sooner than than some of the other teams around them in the standings. 650-650, Dunbar-Lumber text line, keep the text coming in. We kind of mentioned Pedersen, but we can touch on it a little bit more. He scores the two goals, now potentially injured. Once again, we don't know what's going on with Elias Pedersen. We played the 10-second clip from Rick Tockett. That was the only update yesterday.

Also, Quinn Hughes almost didn't play. Yes, Quinn Hughes was a game-time decision going into the game yesterday and obviously did play. Irfan Ghaffar reporting that it might be a hand issue. If you go watch Curtis Pichelka, who covers the San Jose Sharks, had video of Quinn Hughes working on the ice. He was complimenting his work ethic earlier in the day. But when you go watch it now, it looks totally different.

You can actually see Hughes shaking his hand. And you can see in the drills that he's doing with a Sedin twin, he's very clearly just testing out to see if his puck handling is at a high enough level. When I saw the video in the morning, I was like, that doesn't look like Quinn Hughes at work. But I didn't think twice about it. When I watched it more closely with the context of him being a game time decision,

that felt like an essential piece of media. Hopefully Quinn Hughes in particular is able to take a break, rest up. The Canucks need him badly. With Quinn Hughes on the ice last night, the Canucks outshot the Sharks 9-6 5-on-5. In all other minutes, the San Jose Sharks outshot the Canucks 13-5. I'm sure it's fine.

It is not fine, man. It is not fine. If this team plays another month of hockey like this, I'm telling you right now, because there's a month before Heron, it comes back. They play another month of hockey like this, we are going to be talking not, can this team win a Stanley Cup,

but can they make the playoffs down the stretch? They have to play better. I do wonder, because look, management, I don't think Canucks management is going to be enamored with that win yesterday or how they played lately. I do wonder how quickly a move comes for the team especially with like you look at their defense and it just hasn't been good with Philip Peronic out other than Quinn Hughes and so we could talk to Frank Cervalli about this but how quickly the Canucks might act coming out

of the roster freeze and the holiday break all of that but for now this is the team the Canucks are and and we'll see uh how this develops over the course of the next month because I do agree it's uh they've reached concerning levels and with teams like we saw Utah a few days ago they have been playing really well lately and that's a team that could be challenging for the Canucks spot in the playoffs. Elsewhere in the world of sports, the Toronto Raptors. Can we talk this quickly? Sure. The Toronto Raptors. This is crazy.

Basketball Phil will be so crazy. Basketball Phil better be listening. The Toronto Raptors lost their second in a row going into the holiday break, which brought it to, now look. Only two? Well, I mean, they've lost more than that, but I don't know if you've been paying very close attention laddie you don't seem like a basketball guy to me the raptors have been

running the world's most ethical tank oh yes and like they're playing well they're fun to watch all their young guys are showing signs of progress and they're in absolutely every game but they're just always loose and then they lose in the fourth quarter. And then they got Scotty Barnes back from injury, and for a brief shining moment, they actually started winning games again, and I got really nervous that they were a play-in caliber team. And actually, I still think they might be. So those two losses to the Rockets in the Knicks back-to-back,

hard fought, signs of progress, entertaining to watch. Drop it late. You'll love to see it. Also, on Monday Night Football. Packers beat the Saints 34-0. Every Packers running back got a touchdown. Yeah. We'll talk to Shook about this,

but I thought Josh Jacobs was pretty clearly injured as that game went on. Packers didn't announce it. They're claiming rest. He came out of the game with a limp arm, but I actually thought he even got hurt earlier on an earlier sequence. Now, Josh Jacobs was built different.

He's going to probably handle 20 carries next week no matter what. But one thing I love about Josh Jacobs, he's almost got the hockey player mentality where he's hurt. You could tell he's hurt. You could tell he needed a snap earlier on in the game, but he's too stoic like he knows i mean he he knows that he has to be the toughest

least injured guy because that's part of being a workhorse running back and he does the job better than anyone else he's almost got like an ian clark goalie mentality to him where the way you carry yourself is part of the performance but i thought he was i thought he got injured in that game. Spencer Rattler, don't need to see much more of that. I'm not sold. It's a bold take. I'm not sold on Spencer Rattler.

No, I am not either. Had one sick jump throw, and I will say, I do think this Packers defense is elite. They've been the number one DVOA defense since week eight. They're currently 12 to one odds to win the Super Bowl behind the Vikings behind the Baltimore Ravens obviously behind the the Bills the Chiefs the Lions I think there's another team in there that's ahead of them like all of those teams are softer defensively than the Packers are the Packers have a workhorse

running back who's terrifying if he's just mashing carries at you while grinding clock late in games. And they're never out of a game because they've got Reed and Jordan Love and Dobbs and Christian Watson left hurt. Why can't the Packers – are we sure the Packers are the third best team in the NFC North? I am sure. No way, man.

I think the Lions are clearly better than both the Vikings and the Packers. Not with that defense. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm not. The Packers have the best defense of the three. Ah, I don't know. You know it. I'm sorry. I know that.

Maybe I'm just fully blinded by the bias. You are. You are. Because Brian Flores might have docked up and hidden the lack of talent i know the pure talents on the vikings defense yeah well the packers don't have a pure talent issue especially with that rookie linebacker can you help me out um that sick rookie linebacker that the packers have coming on um edger and cooper yes dude yeah edger and cooper holy cow yeah he's good no, he's not good.

That guy's a wrecker. A game wrecker. I'm telling you right now, like the Packers have the best defense of the three NFC North teams by a lot. They probably have the worst offense. Yeah. Of the three. I would agree with that. But I mean, we're talking about two top five

offenses in the Lions and the Vikings, and the Packers are probably like a top seven offense. Maybe you don't fully trust Jordan Love, who feels like he's... Yeah, but I don't fully trust any quarterback in that division, to be fair. Oh, you don't trust Sam Darnold? Not particularly. You don't trust Jared Goff inside? I think they're fine.

I trust Jared Goff in the dome only, but I trust Jared Goff in the dome. So, yeah, no, I'm telling you right now, I love – like, I don't think the Packers should have longer odds than the Vikings, just given the lack of talent on defense. By the way, so speaking of the Packers and Vikings, they have been flexed to the afternoon game on Sunday. Eagles-Cowboys are now the morning game. That's your schedule update for Week 17. I don't need to watch more primetime Cowboys are now the morning game. That's your schedule update. I don't need to watch more

primetime Cowboys. No. Much as I love making money off Kavante Turpin. Fair enough. Yeah. I got a problem, boys. It's going to be Frank Cervalli. It is Alfred Abrupt, Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas Strance here on Sportsnet 650. Frank! Sarah Valley

Sarah Valley Sarah Valley Frank! Sarah Valley Frank! Sarah Valley Frank! Daily Face Off

Frank! Frank. Sarah Valley. Frank. Daily Face Off. Frank. Welcome back to Halford & Brough. Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas, Chance. Filling in for. That is a dog's worst work. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I didn't want to be the one to say it. I will.

This felt like a phone in for me. How dare you disparage the prank intro. It felt like I've seen better from Andy Cole. And it's disparaging, Frank. I've've seen better from Andy Cole and it's disparaging Frank, to be honest. I've never seen worse. Yeah, exactly. The listeners love the Franks. 650-650, Dunbar Lumber text line.

Keep the Ask Us Anythings coming in on Christmas Eve. Merry Christmas Eve. Halford and Brough brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. And this hour of Halford & Brough brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling.

Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling. They recycle. You get paid. 1170 Powell Street. We go to the phone lines. It is Frank Cervalli. He is a presentation of Angry Otter Liquor. Appreciate you taking the time, Frank. Merry Christmas. How are you?

Yeah, Merry Christmas, guys. Great to be with you. You know, you can dog Andy Cole if you want. I would say I think it's some of his better work. Wow. I don't know, man. Are you biased in this tape? Well, I mean, obviously, but I've had a few people on Twitter send me videos of their kids singing it and singing it for days. It gets stuck in my head. Okay, fair enough.

I think that's the true mark of greatness. Have you heard mine, though? I have a 70s porno track. It's unbelievable. Yeah, that was the last thing i wanted to think about i'm just saying i i i you deserve you deserve a better one than me my my dude i want you i want that for you for christmas you deserve something you deserve something equally as sexy as mine frank first all, happy holidays to you and the family.

Second of all, Canucks beat San Jose. Pedersen gets two goals. He sort of laughs off this time the big story in a question with the Amazon Prime broadcast. And the Canucks get to go into the Christmas break feeling hopefully a little bit better about themselves and spared of the noise for at least the next three days just a temperature check where are you at with this Vancouver Canucks team heading into the holiday I don't really know what to make of this team yet yeah I think I'm still trying to sort that out, and I think if we're all being honest, that's probably how the Canucks management and coaching staff feels too.

We've yet to see a completely healthy team. We've seen this story become the most Vancouver story of all time, and we've seen on the ice just really inconsistent play. The home and road splits have been bananas um they've had some moments this season where they look like they're rounding into form and then the wheels fall off what are those moments though frank i don't know that i've seen moments like that i've seen individual games but i haven't there hasn't been a run that I really thought, hey, that's the team I expected. What about that first extended road trip of the season?

Oh, man. I mean, they got their house in order from a puck-moving perspective against the Panthers after losing decisively. And then they beat a tired Philly team, and they whomped Chicago. I don't know that I was huge. No, there was another one after that. Then they came home and beat Pittsburgh, too. Are you talking about the one where they beat the who's who,

the Ottawa Senators? They played well against the Senators, then they sort of played badly against the Bruins, won, got torched by the Penguins, that was Artur Shilov's in net, and then won a couple coin flips against Buffalo and Detroit before losing in Minnesota? Is that the one?

Did they come back like 4-1-0? Yeah, 4-1-1. 4-1-1, but they were playing badly. Like, they were really fortunate on that streak of games without that was the road trip without Miller. I was concerned. After that trip, I kept doing this whole bit where I'd be like,

they're playing commendably, but they're not playing well. That was kind of my bit coming out of that road trip. I feel like they were just getting away with it. And then as the month went on, they sort of stopped getting away with it. Right. Well, you are a man of many bits. I mean, it's true. You're not wrong.

You're not wrong. Yeah. There's always an angle, which is good. I think you need that. But, like, I've – it's also never been, like, truly awful this season for an extended period of time. Do you think it has? Not results-wise, but I think process-wise,

they're currently in a stretch where the hockey they're playing is, like, it's tough because it's punctuated by absolute howitzer A++ performances, like the ones that they put in against the Panthers and the Aalanche but i think on the whole their last 20 games have been pretty close to awful like quinn hughes leads the nhl in scoring all players the last um across the last 15 game stretch and they've needed every bit of that problem no no. They've needed every bit of guy playing one of the three best skaters in the league to go a couple points over 500 point percentage. That, to me, is the issue.

At some point, if you need that much from Quinn Hughes to tread water and bleed ground slowly to Utah in the Western Conference playoff picture, that's not a good sign. That's not something that I look at at this stage of the season and take a lot of heart in or put a lot of stock in. You're right, and I would say okay, and in that last 20 game stretch, how many games did JT Miller play? Seven. And how many did did JT Miller play seven and how many did Philip Aronik play I'd have to check but off the top of my head I think it's four or five

yeah I mean look I'm not making excuses no no you're right it's I think the team so you have a team that really struggles to move the puck efficiently yeah taking out Phil Aronik is like cutting off your right arm. Yeah, it's a glass jaw. I'm not kidding. No, it's a glass jaw. You're right. You're down to like one and a half to two capable defensemen on that front.

And then you take out Miller, who is the heartbeat of the team, and the engine, and then what? It's not an excuse. I just think the inconsistency can be pointed to that part in part not not in full in part except you know it's not like miller coming back sort of fixed the issue like san jose looked like they had a higher gear five on five for much of that game last night like the canucks get three regrettable goals on Askarov and they need every one of the goaltenders mistakes to beat a San Jose team that I think we all agree is improved. Right. But like improvement for them means, hey, they might get to 76 points.

Right. Well, I think you're I mean, not I think I know you're on to something with the process because that's what Rick Tockett has been all over since game one. It's results are fine. Process has been just okay. to is if we're taking the 30 000 foot view and the holistic look at this season i said it in the preseason and i was a hater but this team isn't as good as last year's team and i don't even think it's really close yeah i i think it's hard to argue with especially based on like we it feels like we keep waiting for them to have that signature run where it's like, okay, they're back, and they're like an elite team that can maybe not challenge for a cup but be in that conversation heading to the playoffs, and we just haven't seen it.

How important is this next month for the Canucks when it comes to informing what they do at the deadline? I mean, you take all the information you can get if you're the management group, but I think they've really known what their holes are and what they need to add for a while. We're not talking like two weeks or three weeks. We're talking since training camp started. They were like, oh, this maybe isn't what we thought this blue line might be. And we, you know, that need for more efficient puck moving is really what stands out. So I think

they've been really clear in terms of the need. And I think if they're going to go out and fill it, it's probably not going to be for someone that it just comes in for one playoff run. It's not going to be, we're trading for Elias Lindholm and we're trading for Nikita Zdorov and Hey, whatever they do to help us this year, that's great.

And we'll shake your hand at the end and you'll walk. I view it as a multi-pronged multi-part multi-year solution do do teams view the canucks as a team that's like desperate to try to make a move like that and not not necessarily like imminently but they see what's going on with the Canucks, missing Hronik, further showing their holes on defense. Are the Canucks a desperate team, I guess, or are they waiting still for prices to match what they want to pay? I don't even know if it's so much prices. I think it's more correct fit.

That's really what stands out to me. In the market that they're in, the price is always going to be expensive. So it's about finding something that you can live with, but more importantly, the player and the piece itself actually really excites you. I've sort of begun to, as you say, one of my bets now has become the um the appropriation of the mendoza line as a concept into a discussion of like the tyler myers line right and it's like if you're getting a defenseman for the canucks if the canucks are trading for a defenseman significant assets they need to make sure he's above the Myers line in that, you know, when you land him, Rick talk,

it will actually play him ahead of Tyler Myers. And as much as Myers takes a lot of guff sometimes in this market, that line, I think is a lot higher than people realize. Like, I don't know that, I don't know that, you know,

Marcus Patterson, partly because he's a lefty, but also partly because, you know, for, well, there's a variety of other reasons, you know,

I don't like, I don't even know if the, like, he Mathis. He doesn't move the needle for me. No, he doesn't move the needle, and he probably. I don't think he's moved the needle for the Canucks, because if he did, they would have traded for him, like, a year ago. Right. So, not only does he not move the needle, but he probably doesn't leap over the Tyler Myers line,

certainly not with the sort of ease that I think would convince this Canucks team to part with assets. So if we call the Mendoza line 200, right? Yeah. Is the Myers line like three and a half or is it three? It's like, so the replacement level line, I mean, the Mendoza line, like the Mendoza line to actually appropriate it would be like the Noah

Juleson line, right? But that's not what we're talking about here. No, we're not. We're talking about something. I think we're talking 400. I think we're doubling it. We're talking about the line to actually be a number three defenseman on this team. So is my line right?

Is it three and a half? Yeah, three and a half, sure. Close enough. three and a half yeah three and a half sure close enough and so so on a really good team you're saying if i'm boiling this all down correctly you're saying tyler myers is a four yeah a four five yeah a four a four of i think i think a three four a three four a generous three four but a three four for sure given this club's emphasis on like size and some of the things that he brings that are such a good fit for what Talk It wants and what Adam Foote wants, right? If you want a good laugh on Christmas,

the other day I was talking to Bill Armstrong in Utah, and we were talking about how their seasons unfolded, and he was giving a ton of credit to Ole Mata and that trade for helping settle things down and he's been asked to do a lot he's played like almost four minutes more than his career average with Utah and and it was a a trade that didn't garner any headlines uh third round pick to Detroit to kind of help out in a season in which, you know, they lost their top two of their top four defensemen. And then they bring up their first round pick

in Maverick Lamoureux and he gets hurt too. So Utah's swimming upstream without a paddle. And he said, you know, look at Ole Mata. He's come in and he said, he goes, what I call him is an elite five. And I'm like, oh, good. We've learned some new terms this year. We've got soft tampering and elite five. And I was like, look, elite five. I was like, I know all about what an elite five looks like. Just ask my wife.

But, like, that's like, I love that we've gotten to, like, some numbers here. Oh, his wife did not like the joke. And we will never be back with Frank Cervalli again. Unfortunate end. He went out saying he was an elite fire. Damn, I was so excited to see where that was going. We'll get him back. You can tell when frank's gathering steam too right like i was just like oh this is gonna be good yeah um i do think uh for me speaking of elite fives i i do think tyler myers

on a good team falls into an elite five where he's like probably number four but maybe a five we got frank's air valley back you were talking about elite fives frank when we lost you and i where he's like probably number four, but maybe a five. We got Frank Cervalli back. You were talking about elite fives, Frank, when we lost you. And I just, I was like, wow, what a, like, if you're really trying to properly slot players with expectation and position, that's probably a really healthy exercise to go through. What actually is the player that we're acquiring, which then brings us back to the summer that the Canucks

had, right? And so as we were working through it in real time, I'm like, okay, Vinny Desjardins, bit of a project, limited puck skills. And then it was like Derek Forbort, and you're like, okay, but where, like, these guys weren't properly positioned to be adequate replacements for what they were losing. Yeah, they got a lot of elite sevens. Right, and it's like that's not going to help you. So let's just like, and I'm not saying the Canucks got it wrong or this other team got it right, but look at Carolina and what they did in the summer.

They lose Brett Pesci and Brady Shea, and they find replacements that can do very specific things for what it is that they were looking for. Shane Gostisper, he can come in and run their power play. But that's it. They're not looking for him to be a defensive stalwart and play major minutes. They understand what the expectation is, and that's that. And it's set with their coaching staff, and they move forward. Look at Sean Walker and the impact that he and that's that and it's set with their coaching staff and they move forward look at sean walker and the impact that he's had on that defense so i i guess when you when you have a summer like the canucks did and you end up having to go out and fill those minutes

and those roles maybe it was just a case of, the players that we were actually seeking to do that, we weren't willing to spend as much, couldn't spend as much. The right fits weren't out there. They need to address it by the trade market. And so when you asked your previous question, Josh, about, you know, desperation and where they're at, I mean, I think they're ready, willing and able able to do it provided that they find the right fit. And it's maybe not so much that that person or player hasn't popped up yet. It's also that that team might not be willing to part with them yet. It did feel like, thinking back to the summer, the one takeaway, and you can tell me if I'm wrong,

but it kind of felt like there was an element of this management group and maybe the coaching staff when it comes to defense getting a little bit high on their own supply when it comes to like, hey, last year they found all these guys and it just kind of ended up working. Everybody fit in well. You brought in Nikita Zdorov and he ended up being better than he was in Calgary. And it was like, hey, maybe you can bring in guys that have size

and you can fix them and make them better. But then they bring in Vinny Desjardins, Derek Forbert, and while I don't think they're necessarily bad fits, like Forbert especially, I don't mind Forbert, it just kind of felt like they maybe convinced themselves that they could be more on this team than they were on previous teams and i think that's also a healthy confidence to have in your arsenal but part of what makes jim rutherford such a successful manager in the nhl and i'm sure this is rubbing off on patrick alvina as well is when you make a mistake,

you've got to own it. And I think that is the true hallmark of his career. He's willing to try things. And when it doesn't work, he rips the bandaid off as quickly as possible and he makes adjustments. And there's not a lot of GMs or management groups in this league that are willing to do that. They'd rather just swim in it than admit defeat.

Yeah, and what was interesting is I do think the Canucks, in sort of empowering and building a blue line that maybe more closely matched their coaching staff's preferences, I think they understood that there was going to be like a run of time to give this and and a run of time to change course and and where i'm sort of curious now they also didn't factor in a heronic injury now which has exacerbated all of them of course right and and honestly you know even this has made a difference Like they got really good third pair play for a while,

like for an extended stretch out of Eric Brandstrom. And then he fell off, right? And that's really removed two puck movers from sort of their early season lineup over the last little bit. But I think they always were aware that this was going to be touch and go and might demand midstream adjustment, whether that's tactical adjustment from Talkit or personnel adjustment from them. I think my question is, you know, given the organization's awareness

that this team isn't necessarily playing the right way on a regular basis, how much longer do you expect them to give this in the new year? Because Hironic's probably a month away yet. And if they keep playing like this for another month, Frank, I think we're going to be talking about the Canucks being in a playoff race, like a race for a playoff spot, rather than being in a race for home ice or something more meaningful. I think that's fair, but I would also say that I think that they were ready

to do something yesterday. I think going back to the hours before the trade freeze kicked in last Thursday, they were still making calls into the night to try and get something done. So they're eager. Again, it takes two to tango. It's not just your interest. It's your interest and another team's willingness to make something happen. And I don't think they've gotten, well, obviously, we know they haven't gotten to that point yet. Frank, before we let you go,

you called it one of the most Vancouver stories ever. I think that's fair. The he said, she said around the Canucks. Just your general thoughts on this entire frou-frou and how it sort of interacts with the the kind of wider and I think more reasonable conversation which is you know fundamentally about whether or not the Canucks have a core that can win it all together. Yeah, I hadn't really considered that part of it yet to ask whether they do have the ability with this core to accomplish their goals, which I guess if we're boiling it all down, it's probably the most fundamental conversation to have anyway. And

it's interesting to watch a team like the New York Rangers get to the Eastern conference final last year, lose to the Panthers. And that was their basic, you know, what they walked away with in the summer was we just, the team we have isn't capable of winning. So the longer we wait, the more it's just an exercise in futility. And that's what you're starting to see come undone right now chris crider being a healthy scratch on monday um my take on this situation is i guess i'm not really quite sure how we got from these two guys don't like each other and

don't get along to late last week it became well which one's going that's like that's the most vancouver part of it ever for me and i i just they've played together since 2019 yep i'm fairly certain that signed for eight years each since then yeah i'm fairly and and yeah and both of them went in eyes wide open knowing particularly petterson the the most recent that miller is not going anywhere or very likely to not be going anywhere so no one signs a deal saying well you know i hate this coach but uh i mean good chance that i probably won't have to deal with them in three years anyway. It's not really how things work. So I think for me, this is, it's not a story about nothing because we know there's something there.

This isn't a Seinfeld episode, but it seems overblown. It seems like a healthy dose of maturity is needed for everyone. The message here would be grow up. No matter what walk of life you're in, whether you work together, play together, whatever it might be, not everyone gets along with everyone. That's life. It's about, as Rick talked it, and I'm paraphrasing not about going out to dinner every night it's not about playing playstation with each other you know this is can you show up and work and pull on the same rope at the same time to to put this team in a position for success and i think that's possible as evidenced by last year.

And in the meantime, if we ever do get to an actual point in time where that becomes the conversation of who stays and who goes, I can only tell you one thing, and for certain, it's that the Vancouver Canucks will be losers in the end. Yeah. Hey, Frank, really appreciate you taking the time. Happy holidays. Hope you get some time off here and talk soon. You as well, guys. Have a great one. See ya. There is Frank Cervalli of Daily Faceoff. Frank on Sportsnet 650 was brought to you by Angry Otter Liquor,

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