Halford & Brough in the Morning - Four Nations Facing Off

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), plus they preview the NHL 4 Nations Face Off with ESPN Hockey's Greg Wyshynski (28:36).  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- Luca D'Offsett! For three! Luca, welcome to the Lakers! The status of Sidney Crosby was on the ice. Will he play Wednesday night? He says he will. I mean, four great teams. Four really, really high-end teams. Anybody can really win it. Four nations facing off. Good morning, Vancouver. 6-1 on a Tuesday.

Happy Tuesday, everybody. How many nations? Four of them. Count them. And what will they be doing? They're facing off. Crosby's like, line. It's four, Sid, four.

Four faces nationing off. And what are we doing again? Facing off. You're listening to the Alfred and Rob Show on Sportsnet 650. Let's go around real quick and say good morning, everybody. Good morning, Jason. Good morning.

Good morning, Adog. Good morning. Hey, good morning, laddie. Hello, hello. Halferd and Brough for the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff

that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. So the show sounded a little different right off the hop and it's going to be a little different today because there's no NHL,

there's no Vancouver Canucks and we are going to spend a considerable amount of time getting into the Four Nations face-up. Four Nations facing off. That's what they're doing. They're facing off. If you know anything about this show, it's that Jason and I have long been admirers of Best on Best international competition. And quite frankly, we've missed it over the last, now some say it's nine years without

international competition. I don't count 2016. I got to go all the way back to 2014. So it's 11 years really without best on best international competition. It's been an awfully long time. So our guests today, yes, we will get into some Canucks talk today without question, but we are going to spend a lot of time talking about the tournament that gets underway on Wednesday when Canada first takes to the ice with this all-star team that they've got

facing off against three other teams, four in total, a four nations face-off if you will. Guest list today begins at 6 30. Greg Wyszynski from ESPN is going to join the program. We'll ask him how upset he is that Quinn Hughes is not going to suit up for his beloved American squad. He also has a really cool big profile piece up on ESPN about Brady Kaczak, who's obviously going to be featuring in this tournament for the Americans. We'll also ask him what he has in store for digital cover of the Four Nations with ESPN. I believe he's doing a postgame show with Arda Okal. So Greg Wyszynski is going to join us at 630. Seven o'clock at eight o'clock.

The dynamic duo of Ferraro Tuesdays here on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. Ray is going to join us at seven. Landon is going to join us at eight so we can get into the Canucks with both of them. Ray worked a bunch of games out of market over the last week so we can talk to him what he saw from a variety of teams heading into the break. I was also texting with Ray yesterday and we want to talk about some of his favorite

international hockey memories. And he played for Canada a few times at the Worlds and he played, I think, at the 1989 Worlds and that was the one, I believe, where Alex McGilney. Defected? Defected. Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah. So we'll talk to him about that, and he would have played the Soviet team back in 1989. Okay. So we'll talk to Ray at seven, Landon at eight. At 8.15 this morning, we are giving away another pair of tickets to see the Rugby Sevens. Yes, the HSBC Rugby Sevens. We are giving away a pair of tickets every day this week.

We'll do it this morning. We're gonna do it old school via phone. Call in at 815 and be caller number seven for the Rugby Sevens tickets. 604-280-0650 is the phone number. That number again, 604-280-0650 is the phone number. That number again 604-280-0650. We will be giving away a pair of tickets at 815 to caller number 7 for the HSBC Rugby 7s. Coming up in just a short period of time here at BC Place. Working in reverse on

the guest list, 8 o'clock it's Landon Ferraro, 7 o'clock it's Ray Ferraro and then at 630 it's Greg Wyshinski. That's what's happening on the program today. Lad o'clock it's Ray Ferraro. And then at 6.30 it's Greg Waszynski. That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I'm moving.

We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed it? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources and safety training.

Visit them online at bccsa.ca. Now we did mention this yesterday as the news broke on the show, but to recap everything that happened yesterday, we will begin with Team Canada's first official practice ahead of the Four Nations faceoff. And it of course featured a line which had Sidney Crosby and Nathan McKinnon. The Nova Scotia boys were together alongside Mark Stone and the other big news and noteworthy

thing from Canada from yesterday is that the head coach John Cooper would not commit to a starting goalie for this tournament. All that he would confirm is that they wouldn't have any sort of rotation. They're gonna announce a starter, I believe today. It's expected to be Aiden Hill, but as of yesterday,

John Cooper wouldn't go there, who would start in between the pipes for Canada when they get underway on Wednesday. So once he names a starter, the other two guys can what, go home or something like that? Just take a break, have an extended break. He's just gonna, obviously plans can change, but so his plan is just to be like, okay, we're

going to have one guy and that's it. Because the tournament's so short. Yeah. He said. Four games max, right? For, if you play three round robin games and then hopefully. You're in the final.

You're in the final. He mentioned that having been involved in previous world championships, which is a much longer, more drawn out tournament, you do have the option to rotate goalies, change around lines, move guys in and out of the lineup and off the roster and back into the roster. He's not going to have that luxury for this tournament.

So they will announce a starter. I'm assuming today when the final sort of media prep happens, all the captains of the four teams are going to meet in Montreal with the media today. And then the coaches are going to meet as well. And they're going to come up with, I suppose, what they're going to roll out on Wednesday and Thursday when all four teams get underway.

Okay. I'm going to throw this out to you guys and the listeners, you can text into the Dunbar Lumber text line at 650-650. Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rental warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at dunbarLumber.com.

What is your excitement level for this four nations tournament? Um, did you get excited when you saw some of the line combinations for Canada yesterday, when you saw that Sidney Crosby was going to play? So Sid and McDavid would be on a team, Canada for the first time ever. Um, and I think here's, here's a key question. How upset will you be if Canada doesn't win this tournament? Um,

Palford? I'm getting more excited for it. And I had a lot of buy-in at the beginning because look, there was an obvious, I want this to happen vibe emanating from, I think both of us, like the Halford and Brough show collectively, part of it probably has to do with the fact that we've lived through some pretty great tournaments where Canada has risen to the top, I think 2010 right off the bat. And then you were fortunate enough to go to Sochi for 2014.

And while that- That was a snoozer of a tournament. I know, but it was also maybe the most dominant Canada's ever been at an international tournament. They were as close to perfect as you could get. So there is that to hang your hat on. Like even if it wasn't there- They allowed three goals.

They did. And even if only one game wasn't decided in, they won every if, and only one game wasn't decided in, they won every game, but only one game wasn't decided in regulation. They had to go to overtime for one of the Prolim, the round robin games. So if you look at it, you said, well, even though it might've been a snoozer of a term,

there was still that Canadian dominance and Canadian excellence when it came to hockey, which is an important thing. And part of the second question is, how important is it to you for Canada to win this thing? And I mean, for me right now, all due respect to Sweden and Finland, this to me is the playing out of the best rivalry that hasn't had room to breathe over the last nine or 10 years. And that's Canada versus US in hockey because right now I don't know who's turning out better players. I don't know who the favorite is. I don't know who the better nation is, and this is a one way to decide it.

So I'm very excited for that. Uh, for, for fans, I think international tournaments need emotional stakes to matter as a Canadian. If you're not worried who wins, what's the point? It's why fans don't get particularly nervous for the world championships. I'm sure it's a great experience to go and play in the world championships and represent your country, but I think at the end of the world, because a lot of really good players are still playing in the Stanley Cup playoffs,

it doesn't really prove which hockey nation is on top of the world. I actually quite enjoy watching the world sometimes. Sure. It's a fun tournament and I think the players really enjoyed the experience. In the seventies and the eighties, all that mattered was Canada winning the tournament and hopefully beating the Russians along the way.

And I'm talking about best on best tournaments. Sure. And really when you think about it, the, the true best on best experience started in 1972 at the summit series, because before then there was the NHL and there was the Olympics and you know, the Canadians dominated the NHL, the Russians dominated the Olympics, but the best Canadian players weren't going to the Olympics dominated the NHL, the Russians

dominated the Olympics, but the best Canadian players weren't going to the Olympics and the best Russian players weren't in the NHL. So that's why it was so huge when they met in 1972 and all of a sudden Canada was like, whoa, we might not be the best at this anymore. And eventually they won that tournament and they were like, phew, well, I guess we are.

Um, and you know, they had the 1972 summit series and then they decided to organize the 1976 Canada cup, but that's 76 Canada cup. Actually, the Russians didn't send their best players. They were like, whatever, this is a Canadian thing. Like we're, we're not going to get too excited about this. We're going to still dominate the Olympics. Um, and then they did start to take the Canada Cup a little more serious and 1981, this tournament

doesn't really get, I'm going to do some old man stuff here. Okay. There's going to be some history. Old man winter. There's going to be, there's going to be some old man stuff here. Okay.

So just, just bear just bear with me. The 1981 Canada Cup, Canada had Gretzky, he was like 20 years old and I think he was on a line with like Guy Lafleur and Gilbert Perrault. And then you had a bunch of the, that was right in the midst of the New York Islanders dynasty. So you had Mike Bossy, Brian Trottier, uh, Denny Potvin was on the team.

Scotty Bowman was the head coach and everyone's like, Canada is going to like dominate this tournament. Meanwhile, there was this really testy relationship between the West and the Soviet Union. Okay. Uh, like it was, it was bad.

The, the, the West had just, um, boycotted the 1980 summer Olympics in Moscow. Uh, Ronald Reagan had been elected president and he talked a lot tougher game than Jimmy Carter, who's recently passed away. Um, so it was just, it was, it was different. There, there was a real tension there. So Canada was the favorite in this tournament and they went through the round

Robin undefeated, including a seven, three win over the Russians. So everything was good. Canada ended up losing in the final to the Russians by a score of eight to one. An embarrassment. It was a shocking embarrassment. Um, I was watching some of the highlights last night on, on YouTube and Mike Lute was the goalie in there and once it got to like five one,

Canada gave up. And there was some funny quotes after the game from Mike Lute. He was like, it was more of a five one game, not an eight one game. Um, but like that was, it was more of a five one game, not an eight one game. Um, but like that was, that was a big deal and future Canucks, Igor Larionov and Vladimir Krutov, absolute legends for the Soviet team.

We're on that team and the goalie Vladislav Trechek, who wasn't in net for the seven three lost by the Russians to the Canadians, then goes in net and is incredible for the Russians. Again, like it was a shocking and embarrassing for Canada to lose in that fashion. Eight one at the Montreal four. So what that loss did was set the table for the

future Canada Cups, including the one in 1987 that I remember so fondly when Canada beat the Soviets in a best of three final, Gretzky and Lemieux were together and there's a reason why that win felt so good. Not only was the hockey terrific, all the games were six five.

Uh, there were crazy comebacks and blown leads and you know, Gretzky to Lemieux was that famous play that even if you're young, you've probably seen that. Um, but it was like, it was like, okay, we got, we got some revenge. We got some semblance for revenge, uh, and we felt good about ourselves as a hockey nation again.

And this is what we've lost in the last decade when there hasn't been this true best on best hockey. We've lost the narrative arc. We've lost the embarrassing losses combined with the redemptive victories, right? It was the same sort of thing with, um, in the nineties when the Americans won the 1996 World

Cup, which was the tournament that kind of took over the Canada Cup. Two years later, the pros are going to the Olympics for the first time ever in Nagano. So this is going to be awesome. Canada is going to win Olympic gold for the first time in a while. Ooh, Canada lost to Dominic Kaschek.

They did not win. And the Czechs in the semi-finals. And that set the table, I'm going to use the phrase set the table a lot, for the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake where Canada was finally able to get back on top of the hockey world. They'd gone from 1991 all the way to 2002 without winning a best-on-best hockey tournament. More importantly they'd lost two tournaments along the way and there are a lot of

people that were criticizing Canadian hockey. Canadian hockey, they're a bunch of dinosaurs. They don't know how to play the game anymore. They're not evolving with the rest of the world. And so Wayne Gretzky had this famous press conference in 2002 after the tournament had not started all that well for Canada. To refresh your memory, and this is now over 20 years ago, Canada had opened the tournament by losing to Sweden. It was 5-2 or something like that.

It was not a good, not a good performance. They barely beat in Germany. They beat them by one goal, I think. And then they tied the checks, three all. A result that left Wayne Gretzky really mad for multiple reasons. He didn't like the officiating, but more importantly, he didn't like the way that people

were talking about Canada. And he felt that Canada was getting disrespected by the rest of the hockey world. They couldn't skate with us in the third period. They should have four or five penalties, hooking, holding, tripping. We all played them in the hockey world. They couldn't skate with us in the third period. They should have four or five penalties, hooking, holding, tripping. We outplayed them in the third period. We just, they talk about we're not a skating team.

We can't move the puck. We have no finesse. That's crazy. We outskated them in the ground in the third period. There should have been four or five penalties, blatant penalties. And should have been two or three suspensions. Am I hot?

Yeah, I'm hot. Because I'm tired of people taking shots at Canadian hockey. And when we do it, we're hooligans. And when Europeans do it, it's okay because they're not tough or they're not dirty. That's a crock of crap. So similar storyline in 2010, the Canadians had been awful at the 2006 Olympics, then had all the pressure on them when they hosted the

games in 2002 in Vancouver. 2002 in Salt Lake, they get it done. That was incredible. It felt so good for Canada to win that game. Felt even better, especially as someone who lived in Vancouver, uh, when Canada won in 2010. But the key to it all, there has to be that fear of losing, that fear of losing our spot at the

head of the table. And right now the Americans are a lot like the Soviets used to be for us. We think we're still the best, but we're not totally sure. Yeah. We haven't found a way to figure it out because they haven't had best on best

international competition in a long time. That's what this is really about. As we try and are we overselling? I don't know. It means a lot to us. We've talked about it so much as a show. And it's funny because when you talk about what this means to the players, and Jason just went through the historical

breakdown of it, so many of the iconic Canadian players throughout the course of history have that international moment on their resume. It's almost like if you're gonna be anointed one of the great Canadian players of all time, you're gonna have that moment on your CV, right? Crosby's got it with the golden goal in 2010. I don't think we need to go more about what Lemieux

and Gretzky have done internationally. And Gretzky actually added another chapter to his because he did it as an executive. A lot of people consider that speech that we played to be one of the greatest deflections in sports history, where he took all the pressure off the team and put the arrows solely on him. He sounded like a real whiner halfway through it. You know, like you're like, God, you're complaining a lot about the press.

Yeah. Press was scathing. Totally. Gretzky. It was, it was not like, wow, what a great speech. It was like, are you kidding me, Wayne? And I remember that, like people saying like, there was Wayne's last great salvo for Canadian hockey. Wasn't as a player, but it was as an executive. The modern player, the modern group of players, they have not had these opportunities. And right now what we're witnessing is the opportunity

to set the stage and set the table for the Olympics in 2026, which is the one that everyone's looking forward to, but also set up that great dynamic about where does Canada rank compared to their best rival, which right now is the US. There are so many players right now that have been sitting on the sidelines and haven't had an opportunity to do that. And the one that jumps to mind right away is obviously Conor McDavid. Conor McDavid, and to a lesser degree, maybe Nathan McKinnon, but this is his opportunity to enter that pantheon with, you know,

he'll remember Crosby, and Crosby will remember Lemieux and Gretzky, and Lemieux and Gretzky will remember, going back to the 72 summits years, like Phil Esposito's speech, Paul Henderson's goal, Bobby Clark breaking ankles, all that stuff. Right. That's how it works. Not with his moves.

There's a lineage. Right. Each generation looks back and there's that measuring stick of all of it. Now, the big thing and why this tournament matters is it's an opportunity that a lot of really good players haven't had. And for a lot of guys, I think they probably thought that there will always be another one on the horizon. And there wasn't. You know, you look back, go look at Steve Stamkos's career. That's a Hall of Fame guy that really never got an opportunity internationally for a variety of reasons. He was an alternate in 2010.

He got hurt in 2014 and then the international competition went away. That's something that he won't have on his resume moving forward. If you go back and you look at, and that sort of ill-fated 06 team that went to Italy and was awful. And that was one, by the way, where you saw a change with Hockey Canada,

is they kind of stopped being so heavily reliant on older veteran players, because they got burned on it in 98, and they got burned again in 06. They had like Chris Draper on that 06 team and Todd Bertuzzi on that 06 team. They didn't take Crosby in 06. Four years later they go in Vancouver and Crosby's the focal point of the team right. The image things can change in four years but it can also change for guys careers right. Guys like Brad Richards and LeCavier, that 06 team was the only chance that they got.

They weren't there in 02 and they were out of the mix by 2010. So these moments for a lot of these guys, this might be it, right? And that's important to the players. That's why you saw the players like bargain for this, like CBA negotiations, get an international tournament and regularity and a calendar back in because we want these

moments and we want to play. Winning the Stanley Cup and having postseason success is one thing, but especially for the Canadian guys, they understand that you get to that sort of, it's just a different level. It's a level of legend and national heroes. And they put you on postage stamps and you get commercials next to the guy

cutting out the bottom of each one of us. And hockey players care about this stuff. They care about this stuff right from the World Juniors, especially in Canada. Here's the other important thing to note with all this. The opportunity is only just that. It's just an opportunity. You gotta deliver on those stages.

And the other part of this is that if you go back and look and everyone looks at 2010 and they were like, 2010 was great, it was this coronation and everything. 2010 was real close to being a disaster for Canada. If you go back and you look at it and you remember how that group stage went is they barely beat Switzerland in a shootout and then they lost to the US to end the round robin.

And I was looking back at some of the articles that were coming out in the aftermath of that. Like there was one in time and the headline was Canada, the Olympics and hockey, it's time to panic. There was one from the New York Daily News, do you believe in meltdowns? Team USA Olympic hockey team upsets Canada, Canada reeling. Like that's where it was at. Right? Because, because also though, there had been 2006. There'd been that, there'd, there'd been that preceding tournament, which set the stage for 2010. It was very similar with O2.

None of that. None of it. Yeah. None of it was in a vacuum. Yeah. Um, so at the very least, I hope this tournament is a table setter for next year's Olympics in Italy. Let's see with this tournament where everyone

stands and I realize the Russians aren't in it, but Canada, the US and Sweden are, they have more depth and talent than I, than the Russians anyway. Um. Russia, yeah, Russia's. Yeah. Dep depth isn't actually as strong as people might think. Well, I mean, yeah. They're so old. Yeah, and they don't have enough players.

They have some really, really good players, don't get me wrong, but they don't have... Like, who's the best Russian defenseman in the NHL? Sergei Cheb. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Who would be Sergei Cheb? Sergei Cheb. I mean, would he make Canada?

He's pretty good. Okay. I like Sergei Cheb. Who else? Would he make it over Sennheim good. Okay. I like Sergey. Who else? Would he make it over Sandheim? Yeah. There's Provov. I remember doing this in Sochi because everyone was like, Oh, the Russians are going to win because big scene.

They've always had defense. Yeah. But they've got like six KHL players on this team. Like they're not going to win and they didn't win at any rate. Uh, let's see where everyone is, especially Canada, the United States, and I suppose Sweden and Finland as well. And then, then we look ahead to the Olympics a year away in Italy, and then let's get on a regular international schedule.

So we can look ahead to these events, like they get to in international soccer in Europe, for example, where every four years, you know, England is going to lose in the world cup and every four years, you know, England is going to lose in the Euros, but you don't know how they're going to lose. So there's that surprise there, right? That's the hook of this. It's the, it's the narrative arc that we've lost.

And, you know, that's important in sports. It's all about like redemption and, you know, that's important in sports. It's all about like redemption and you know, insecurity and feeling like, oh my God, like what if we lose? And hopefully we find that again in international best on best hockey. So we will continue. I'm seeing a lot of mixed reviews in the text

inbox of people like, ah, is this going to be pond hockey? And to those people I say, once you watch these players playing together, I think your tune might change. Okay, also though, that is, I think, illustrative of what's happened with international hockey over the last eight to 10 years. Is that the only instance we got of it was the 2016,

the sort of ill-fated World Cup of hockey. And I think that tuned a lot of people out. Like they're like, I don't want another gimmicky tournament and they're projecting that onto this one. Also, I think what we're kind of trying to do here is like restoke the fire, rekindle the fire if you can, is that it's been gone for so long. I think it's out of a lot of people's collective memories

and conscious. When we were in 2010 and we were working back at TSN, I remember being so engrossed by the tournament because it's a short tournament, the stakes are incredibly high, one loss can really throw you off kilter. And you understood that this was the closest thing you were gonna get to figuring out

who was the best in the world. And you weren't gonna get a chance for another two to four years. So it was important. And I think that when you're trying to revive something like that, you almost have to get overly excited about something like the four nations face off, understanding that we're back. We're trying to get back and we're trying to make international hockey. I'm not saying this is very Olympics, but I think the players will care. I think they'll play like they'll care. Well, we'll continue

the conversation on the other side with Greg Wyshinski from ESPN. We'll get a look at the American side of things, how this tournament is being digested south of the 49th parallel. We can talk to Wish about all that. He's got a lot of stuff up on ESPN. He's coming up next on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650.

Canucks Talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks. Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. 6.33 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers.

They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, four parts. We are in hour one of the program. Greg Wyshinski from ESPN is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off our one hour one of this program is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling.

They recycle, you get paid. This is them 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. You know, another reason that Bruff and I love international best on best hockey so much is because of the memories and the great friendships forged during those memories. Like the time back in 2010, when we hosted a watch party with our next guest at Malone's.

Oh yeah. That was a long time ago. We packed all these people in for Canada, US. The US one, we're like, how befitting? A curtain blog watch party that ended in disappointment. It was great. One guy wasn't disappointed though, Greg Waszynski, our next guest here on the Alfred and Brev Show on sports.

Yeah, I spit it out, all right? On Alfred and Brev Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Greg Wyshinski. How are you? I had the best time during that. That was the first Olympics I ever covered. And we had a, Yahoo had rented a house in Kitsilano that a bunch of us were staying at.

We had a chilly kickoff that ESPN MLB insider, Jeff Passan won, smoked a lot of cigars, drank a lot of great beer, and occasionally covered hockey. So that was a great time. It was a great, great time, outside of obviously what happened in the gold medal game, which my therapist said never actually happened. I appreciate it. Greg, what are your expectations for this tournament?

I honestly don't know. I want to believe that there's going to be a Pavlovian response on Saturday from the Swedes and the Finns when they see each other across the ice and from the Canadians and the Americans when they see each other across the ice, especially with the game at Bell Center with 20,000 fans waving little Canadian flags and the anthem being booed and the whole thing like I have a hard time believing that the Americans and the Canadians won't play an extremely intense game on Saturday night but that being said like overall for

this tournament I know I kind of this is just a vibe now I might I hope I'm completely wrong but like somewhere in between the All-Star game and the World Cup, like will be the level of play. I honestly don't know. I mean, it's not a prestigious tournament. They just made it up. They made it up because they couldn't really stage an actual World Cup. That's not the best thing because of Russia. Every player that I've talked to within the last two weeks has talked about how they don't want to talk about four nations and are like head deep in playoff races and not even thinking about this tournament. I mean, like, I think now that they're up there and now that they're skating with each other and oh, how cool is it I get to sit between, you know, McDavid lead up to this thing is not necessarily.

We are reordering our lives and diving into copious amounts of group chats to get excited for the Four Nations tournament. Do you think at the very least it could set the table for the Olympics next year? Well, I think it's... Well, first of all, do the Olympics need table setting? I think it's like the question. I know it was supposed to be the appetizer before the main course of the Olympics, but it's, well, first of all, do the Olympics need table setting? I think it's like the question. I mean, I know that it's supposed to be the appetizer before the main course of the Olympics, but it's the goddamn Olympics. Like we haven't been there in a while.

Um, you know, and I think that the, the, these generations of young players getting a chance to represent their countries was going to get us excited about, about the Olympics, regardless of there's, if there's a tournament beforehand, where I think that there is some Olympic lead in though, is the fact that there are going to be some players on these teams that are going to treat Four Nations as a chance to really make an impression on hockey Canada, and USA hockey with regard to their positions in 2026.

I mean, if you're an American playing in the bottom six on that team, you look over your shoulder and you see Cole Caulfield, J. H. Thompson, Clayton Keller, like there's a slew of good young players that didn't make the cut, mainly because they're known for their offense more than their defense. So, you know, I think for both teams, there's players that want to kind of establish themselves as being cemented on the 2026 hostars and that'll lead itself to there being some really solid effort being put into this tournament. I'm not trying to poo poo it. I want this thing to be as cool as we all hope that it could be and I think it's undeniable that the games on Saturday are going to be really, really fun and maybe extremely

memorable. I just hope that when I tune into USA Finland, I see the same kind of thing. And I'm not entirely sure. Well, I don't think you will. We just had a, we opened the segment with basically me boring everyone to death with the history of Canada at best on best. And my argument, to make a long story short,

it was a long story, was basically for these tournaments to be interesting to us as Canadians, there has to be that fear that we've lost our spot at the head of the table, you know, seventies and eighties, it was with the Russians and nineties it was the Americans and now it's still with the Americans. And we just haven't had a tournament that really, at the end of the day, proved anything really since Sochi in

2014. And I'm hoping we can get back on that schedule where Canada is like, oh my God, we'd had this embarrassing loss here, but there's usually been that redemption for us and we need to get back to that schedule. Right. And also that's why you guys just hired a GM for hockey excellence or whatever for World Juniors because you got to get back on top of the mountain. I mean that was one of the great things about Vancouver, right? Is that even though Canada was maybe the greatest assembly of talent we've ever seen in hockey and you were playing on your home ice and by all accounts should have rolled to a gold medal in that tournament no matter what happened, you took an L in prelims and so that became a little bit more of a yeah it became more of a

classic fake Canadian underdog story. Can we somehow overcome our tormentors in the gold medal game that beat us the first time and my god thank goodness you did. Needed over time to do it but you know I joke joke, but again, I've said this before, like, one of the greatest moments of my life, and also one of the worst moments of my life, was walking through the streets of Vancouver after that gold medal game.

And being so despondent, and being so sad, that the one chance we might have had to get one over on Canada as a hockey nation, we squandered. But seeing how much it meant to Canadians and seeing the parties that were going on and seeing just like the joy that was inherent after that gold medal win, like you couldn't help but be like, all right, it's okay. It means more to you than it means to me. Yeah. I'm glad you could admit that. it means more to you than it means to me. Yeah. And so like, I'll never forget that feeling.

I'm glad you could admit that. Really walking back to the, I mean I think I walked from the arena back to Kitsilano and I just, I'll never forget that feeling of being really down but also extremely happy for Canadians. Like the point I was trying to make from my spiel in the intro, which was admittedly much more muted than Bruff's,

but there's the opportunity that the international competition brings is so unique and it's been taken away for so long that there's a lot of players that have been starved of it. And I ran through the lineage of it, like Crosby's got his, Lemieux has his, Gretzky has his, and it's almost like each generation looks back onto the previous one, it's like, where's your big international moment

where you're representing your country? And it's funny, from an American perspective, the one that always stands out to me, and it's because we were working for NBC at the time, but when Oshie had the shootout heroics, I remember that because- In front of Putin. Right, he went six times in the,

Bilesman went to him six times in the shootout, for those that forget this, but Oshie went from being like a guy that hockey people knew to all of a sudden like the most important figure in America. I remember, it was like, he was on par with the president when he did it. I distinctly remember that.

And I'm not, this isn't hyperbole. Please tell me it's not hyperbole. He was a hockey player on the Today Show on NBC. Right. And the last time I think the hockey player was on the Today Show on NBC was unfortunately the Todd Bertuzzi infant. Like that's, that's, that's usually like, that's that the joy of hockey is not something that's expressed on mainstream television. It's usually for really bad reasons, but he became like a national point of pride. You're absolutely right.

And then, you know, obviously look, then, obviously look, 1980 still resonates. It shouldn't, but it does. It's been quite a while. And of course the other one that is pretty much just for the hockey heads, but still has some cache, culturally, is the World Cup in the 90s, which I think is getting revisited a little bit because that might be the last time the US

had the assemblage of offensive talent that it has on this roster when you think back to the the forwards that they had in the mid 90s and like you know that's probably the last time they came close to being able to stand toe-to-toe with Canada until now so I mean you know we obviously the US has less definitive moments for its star players because they've just not had the same sort of international success. But you know, little hits here and there. TJ Oshie, John Carlson, I think is still defined by his world junior goal in some circles and

so on and so forth. But yeah, now's the chance. I mean, to become, if you're Austin Matthews and you lead the US to their first gold medal is the miracle, you are something beyond just a really good hockey player who plays in Toronto. You are now an American sports icon. So when you talk about the big moments reserved for the star players and who might sort of grab it

this time around, I look at this US roster, I know you mentioned Matthews, but for me it's the Kachuk brothers. I feel like they are custom made for this kind of thing and this kind of tournament. And I know you wrote a big profile piece for Brady. It's up at ESPN right now. But yeah, discuss that, but also.

I had no idea when it was publishing, so I'm glad you mentioned that. It's up live now, yeah. Well, look, I look at this tournament and I'm thinking, who are the guys that are going to cause the most emotional disruption? And the first guys that jumped to mind were Matthew and Brady Kachuk. Yeah, and I was super bummed when I saw Mike Sullivan's lines yesterday for the

team, because I was like, the Kachucks and Eichel, the Tet line, like, what are we doing? How do you not make that line a thing in this tournament? With Miller as their center? Can you imagine? Or whatever you want to do, like the Kachucks and Miller, whatever you want to not make that line a thing in this tournament. With Miller as their center? Can you imagine? Or whatever you want to do, like the Kachucks and Miller, whatever you want to do, just like put the Kachucks together on the same line. It's still replacing the All-Star game. Let us have a little bit of fun, right?

But no, those guys, Eichel, like I think there's a few players that we talked, you know, we began this conversation talking about like, what is the level of effort going to be? I mean, like that's part of the conversation is there are certain players on both Canada and the U.S. who cannot go through the motions. The Kachaks cannot go through the motions. I have a feeling that they try to drop the gloves in a beer league game. And Sid and Connor, they can't go through the motions. They're going to be competitive no matter what.

So you're right. I mean, when you think about this tournament and who could put their stamp on it and who could have a definitive heroic moment, it is guys like that that simply can't turn it off that are gonna treat this thing with the important seriousness of a Stanley Cup final game.

Hey, Wish, I don't know if you know anything more about this, but I read somewhere that they might make an announcement about the 2028 World Cup at this Four Nations tournament. And I'm wondering if that tournament will be played in August and September instead of February in the middle of the season, just a few months away from the playoffs. I don't know.

Um, I, I know that there is an appetite to play it inside the season because of the focus being so much greater on hockey at that point and the players being in better shape and trying to make it more of a focal point rather than having it be at a time when baseball and the NFL is ramping up and all this other stuff is going on. So I'd be intrigued by the timing of it, but I imagine if they announce anything, it's just going to be the intention to hold it. Like the situation with Russia and Belarus right now makes it untenable to actually stage the world cup. I mean, they're,

they're banned from international competition through next year. The IOC is basically going to, going to determine what their status is for the Olympics. And I think if the NHL doesn't announce something for 28, it's going to be with the hope that the Ukraine conflict is resolved in some way by then. I think it's a good bet. Honestly, like I do think that we are probably not going to have that thing extend into 2028, if I had to be honest with you. Um, but I, but I can't imagine that they're going

to be too, too detailed and definitive on what that's going to look like if there isn't an absolute. I just wonder, I mean, we've been through this a lot here in Vancouver with the, the Quinn Hughes stories and, uh, uh, story. And I'd love to get your reaction to Quinn Hughes not playing for the U S of the tournament, but it's just, you know, Hughes was essentially, the

Canucks will say that we left it up to Quinn to make the decision and he made the right decision. But I'm pretty sure they put their point forward. Like don't go to this tournament, please, because we need you for the stretch drive. There's 27 games left in the season. You're only three points up on Calgary for the playoffs, you are easily our most important player.

You're the captain of the team. You know, I just think it's, uh, it, it, it, it's hard to have this type of tournament just, what are we, two months away, three, two and a half months away from the playoffs or whatever we are. I can't tell time anymore. I'm old, but you know, when it was in August in September, the tournament was great.

Like the Canada Cups were then, the World Cups, the old World Cups were then. And, and that was before players were in as good a shape as they are right now. Like I don't think hockey players really fall out of shape as much as they, as they used to. And I just think I get, I get the argument for timing, especially in the States, but I just think the

tournament would be so much better if it was in August and September and the players were fresh and not worried about the playoffs. You are remembering the 2016 World Cup with rose coloured glasses. The hockey was bad. The 2016 World Cup was awful. I hated the 2016 World Cup because it didn't matter. But they also held it in September and none of those guys were in

shape. Like that's part of it too. None of the guys cared. Team North America, none of the guys cared. Well then what is it in your math that you think they're going to care this time? Because it would be a true best on best tournament and not a Mickey tournament. Oh, so you think they didn't care because of Team Europe? Well, I mean, it was stupid because the American team and the Canadian team were so diluted. I mean, you didn't even have McDavid on Team Canada. It didn't mean anything at the end of the day. I think they didn't care because it was an exhibition tournament held for the first time

in 15 years or whatever it was and it was held in September and none of these guys were in shape that you know they weren't even in camp shape yet and and they were you know half the games are played at half speed and the passion wasn't there and yada yada yada I don't think I didn't do it the two fake teams yeah there's no there's no argument to be made that if you play a game in the middle of the season It's not going to be a better quality hockey that you play when an August like you can't even argue that but I want but the players have to take the lead here because the players were the ones that

Wanted this international schedule, right? Like they go back to the Olympics I mean the Olympics is a different story, but they also wanted something in case I'm wrong here, in case it was the league that was pushing this, that wanted the, the world cup every four years, you know, in a corresponding fashion, right? So there was, there, there would be something every two years for hockey fans or whatever it is. But like they, they need to, they need to pick

the best time for them where they're going to be up to it because they've been the ones pushing for this. So two things. First of all, the league definitely pushed it because they want something that can counterbalance and create leverage against the Olympics. And if they have a World Cup every two years that there are in Olympics, then they have an event where it's like, okay, we don't really need you to be the best on best place. And maybe we can just pull guys out and now we have our own event and keep that in mind next time you don't wanna like cover insurance costs

or if you don't wanna allow us to put a logo on the ice or something. You know what? There's definitely that aspect of it for the NHL to create their own thing to then create a little bit of leverage against the IOC. And more power to them by the way, because the IOC is corrupt

and the IOC has never given the NHL the proper the proper credit or the the proper compensation for basically having all of their talent be loaned for nothing for weeks on end to pump up another organization's event but the other thing about it too is you know if we're talking about Quinn not playing and we're talking about other guys not playing and you know, this is a made-up tournament. I'm sorry, it's something they've invented to replace the All-Star game. It's something they've invented because they couldn't stage a World Cup. And you know, if you go back to your argument about the 2016 World Cup about how guys didn't care because there was two made-up teams, well then in theory, if you had a proper World Cup that

was best on best that maybe did have games outside of Montreal and Boston, I know novel concepts were a World Cup, then then you're going to have players with more buy-in, then you're going to have players that take it more seriously and they're going to have players that in the, you know, we're talking indicated that if the Connaughts played this week, there's probably a chance that Quinn plays. And if that's the case know we're talking indicated that if the Connaughts played this week there's probably a chance that Quinn plays and if that's the case and it's a World Cup instead of the four nations face-off then he probably plays in the World Cup if it does matter to the players there is prestige involved if it is a true best-of-best versus just being the best of Sweden, Finland, and USA

and Canada against each other. I'm just wondering if there can be two tournaments that matters. You know, if, if, if, if NHLers are going to commit to going to the Olympics, will these tournaments matter? And, um, you know, Mike and I are big England soccer fans and, um, you know, the World Cup matters, but so do the Euros.

And we've kind of looked at what they're trying to do in hockey and we've compared it to soccer and said, okay, well, yeah, make it like that. So you've got, you've got every four years, you got a world cup, but also in the corresponding years, every four years, you've got a euros. But I wonder maybe is that, are we aiming too high? Like, you know, back in the day, the Canada

Cup and the World Cup meant something because the NHLers didn't go to the Olympics. That's why it mattered. Right. You know, we didn't have the opportunity to play in the Olympics, but maybe if they are going to the Olympics that, then these tournaments are just going to be really

tough to make matter. I think, I think he nailed it, which is that the minute they started going to the Olympics, the Olympics became the pinnacle and there's no, there's no getting away from that unless you just don't, you know, go anymore, which, you know, the NHL has already shown they are hesitant to not send their players as long as it hasn't.

I mean, I'm sorry, even when it is collectively bargained, they can gin up reasons not to go like, you know, we're worried about COVID in Beijing. Um, I think the other part of this too, that we're not talking about is the fact that this is an international league. And the bottom line is, and I've talked to guys from other countries about this. The, the chance to represent your country and win a gold medal, if you're a

Swede in the Olympics is like infinitely more important than a world cup, infinitely more important than a World Cup, infinitely more important than World Championships. It is the idea that you can be, you know, Peter Forsberg on the postage stamp, you know, like it's, it's not even, there's nothing that the NHL can create at all that will come close to how a lot of athletes around the world feel about Olympic participation and the chance to win immense ice hockey gold medal in the Olympics. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try. I do think that there is room for a World Cup of hockey every two years and in the Olympics.

And I think that there is a chance that if staged properly, if it feels more like a best on best, if you have qualifying matches and stuff like that and, and try to do it properly, like there's going to be more of a competitive spirit to it. And maybe you get 75% of Olympic tournament, but you're never going to be able to replace it like the genies that the genies out of the bottle unless they just stop going. Yeah, we're way up against it for time, but I'm going to ask this anyway, because it's our show, whatever we can run and how we want. for time, but I'm going to ask this anyway, because it's our show, whatever we can run and how we want. Um, the next time that they have a World Cup of hockey, presumably in 2028, I meant to ask you about this, uh, story and report out there when they have the World Cup next time in 2028, let's say, is Gary Bettman still going to be the commissioner of the NHL? That's a good question. I, I know that there are some succession plans being considered and probably cemented at

some point. You know, obviously the CBA goes through this, you know, the goes to probably announce a new one this year at some point. I mean, he's going to be around until he's not. And then the question becomes, like, do they have him stick around to kind of transition in his replacement? Is he just done and done when he walks away? I tend to believe he'll still be here in 2028.

But I mean, because we've been wrong about it before, as far as him, you know, piecing out after a CBA negotiation. But to me, the more interesting thing is the succession plans. Do they have someone internally in mind already that they're gonna promote? Do they go outside the organization? The one thing I'll say that I've heard is that

Bill Daley would take over for X amount of time and become kind of a transitionary commissioner to them maybe finding someone outside of you know, somewhat someone inside of hockey or outside of hockey to, to be the successor to Batman. I mean, that's just one thing I heard. I don't know if that's accurate or not. Um, but, uh, there's certainly, you know, there's certainly discussions now about like what, what comes next after he retires. Um, but then the question is when did he retire?

And I don't think any of us can really know the answer to that. Wish this was great as always, bud. Thanks for doing this. Enjoy the games this week. We'll do this again next Tuesday. Yeah, anytime. Greg Wyshinski from ESPN here on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

Before we go to break, I need to tell you about Denny's. True North Taste awaits with Denny's 100% Canadian beef burgers made with new shredded iceberg lettuce on a brioche bun and all the classic ingredients you love. Ray Ferraro coming up next on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.