Halford & Brough in the Morning - Frank Seravalli On What Happened With Boeser At The Deadline

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with Daily Faceoff NHL insider Frank Seravalli (1:21) about why the Canucks didn't trade Brock Boeser at the deadline, Boeser's relationship with the club going forward as well as Rick Tocchet's future with the team, plus the boys answer some listener questions about what the Canucks could do trade-wise this off-season to try and get back on track, as well as what they'll do with EP40 (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Frank! Cerebelli, cerebelli, cerebelli Frank! Cerebelli, Frank! Cerebelli, Frank! Dealy face off! Frank! Cerebelli! Frank! Daily face-off! Frank! 703 on a Wednesday! Frank!

You're listening to the Halford and Bruv Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford and Bruv for the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff. They can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in hour two of the program. As the music suggests, Frank Ceravalli from Daily Faceoff

is gonna join us in just a moment here to kick off hour two. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Jason Homineck at jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. Our next guest is a

presentation of angry otter liquor Frank Saravalli from Daily Faceoff here on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning Frank, how are you? Good morning. Doing pretty good, how are you guys? We're well, it's again, not exactly the most uplifting first hour of radio here talking a lot about the Canucks and their struggles, but got a lot of things that we need to get into. You know, one thing I did wanna ask you is we kinda look back instead of looking ahead here

for the Vancouver Canucks. Now that the dust has settled on the trade deadline and everything has moved forward, have you got a better sense of exactly what did, or maybe more importantly, what didn't happen with Brock Besser at this year's trade deadline? Yeah, I think I have a pretty good sense. I think, or at least my understanding is that

as the day went on on Friday, more teams were kicking in the tires and trying to figure out A, what they had left in both cap space and assets, B, trying to measure that against what they thought the Canucks had going and C, whether or not they could make a last-ditch effort to try and get him out of Vancouver. And obviously that didn't materialize, but I don't know how close it ended up getting because I don't think the Canucks ended up getting a solid offer that they felt like they could move him. And beyond that, I can tell you that at least some of the reporting that's been out there, I don't

think is accurate about the Canucks and Canes talking and having a first-round pick on the table. According to my sources, I don't think the Canes and Canucks ever talked about Brock Besser at all. So I don't think there was anything actionable from a Vancouver perspective. I think at some point they were motivated to try and make that happen and got to a point where they said you know what what we have on the table it's much more beneficial for our franchise to keep him and try and make sure that we get in the playoffs. For the Canucks to trade

Besser, did they need to add another player to maybe not replace him directly but add something to the top six? We've seen this team so many times. Are you talking about a flip possibility? Yeah, a flip possibility just because we've seen that before as opposed to just taking picks and prospects and taking a good goal scorer, well, he has been in the past, off a team that already has a crazy amount of trouble scoring and still trying to make the playoffs. I think that would have been an ideal situation and something that they would have looked to do, but they didn't have one on the table first off. And second, I think at some point it was too late to even try and accomplish that.

Right. Um, we've heard a few reports, uh, Elliot Freeman, um, talking about how difficult the whole Besser thing was on, on not only Besser, but the team. Have you heard anything similar to that? Yeah, I think it's, it's certainly added another log to the fire of what's been a really difficult season for a lot of people.

Um, I think players, staff included everyone. It was, I think, uh, pretty fair to say a solid misstep in communication, at least from a public perspective. And I understand the position that Patrick Alveen and the Canucks probably thought that they were in at the moment. Fans are upset. Hey, why didn't we trade Brock Besser if he doesn't have a contract? And at the same time, from a Canucks perspective, they can't make offers materialized, they can't make

interest materialized. And in the same breath, we're also talking about a player that, to be fair to all parties, they couldn't trade in year one of the contract, because they didn't get good offers. So that was with two years left at cost controlled options at 6.65 and it was difficult to make happen then. Now as a pending UFA, should the situation have been different? There was such a long period of time in which many people around the league believed that the Canucks and Besser were going to find a way to work out a deal since he had been pretty public in his interest to stay. And I think at some point it turned. And I think when you're a player and you get through a really tense period of time in your career and then you hear the comments that you did that basically they couldn't get anything good for him

and more or less the message to boil down if you're internalizing it as a player is no one wants you really is kind of what's said out loud. That's really difficult for someone to digest. And so I think it would have been a lot easier for everyone involved had the message publicly from the Canox been for everyone involved had the message publicly from the Canucks been, hey we just we thought that it was more important to keep Brock Besser for our playoff push and say reveal a little more else I think probably would have made a lot more sense but I mean let's let's be real there hasn't been one easy thing about this Knopf season from start to 75 point mark or 75% mark of the season.

Why would the last 25% be easy either? We're speaking to Frank Cerrelli from Daily Faceoff here on the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Speaking of public statements, I don't think I've ever heard more public statements come from Carolina than I have over the last 72 hours. So you had Rod Brindmore discussing the Miko Rantnan situation on a pregame radio show in Raleigh. You had Eric Tulski coming out and speaking as well. You had the agent for Miko Rantnan, Andy Scott on with Mike Futa and Matt Marchese right here on the sports and fan 590.

So I got a couple of questions here. Let's work through these. Is Rod Brindemore right now more frustrated with Miko Rantan for not giving his organization a shot or is Rod Brindemore more frustrated with his management group for bringing Rantan in in the first place? I don't think he's frustrated with his management group at all. I think he's more frustrated with Miko Rantan and saying, at least again, trying to boil through, boil down these statements into the most easily digestible chunk. Yeah. I think what he's trying to say is this guy didn't really give us a chance.

Got here and decided that he didn't want to be here. And after that, it seeped into his production and play to the rest of the team who's trying to figure out, hey hey what's happening here and then in the end with giving us a list of teams to go to you know it just kind of hammed up the whole process to the point where we couldn't get anything else done on deadline day because we're waiting for the trade with Dallas to go through we don't have cap space we don't have the picks that we're acquiring in our possession yet, all those things.

The way I see how this has all worked out, I would say, everyone's just a little bit unhappy except for the Dallas Stars. The Colorado Avalanche aren't happy because in the end they still traded Miko Rantinen. Rantinen's not necessarily happy because the same deal he got in Dallas probably could have maybe worked out in Colorado.

The Carolina Hurricanes aren't happy because they finally got the game breaker they've been dying to get their hands on and he slips through their hands like sand. And just the Dallas Stars are, and oh yeah, by the way, the Av abs aren't happy because now they have to face Niko Rantzen in the next nine playoff runs if they all get that far. So you didn't think that Brynda Moore's comments were, or he said, you know, should we have

known that this guy didn't want to? Not even a little bit. That's that franchise, that's our office and that coaching staff are locked in, in a way that I'd argue so few are around the NHL. Rod Bryndenmore on trade deadline day has a seat at the war room table. I'm honestly not sure how often that happens with many other head coaches in the NHL.

Yeah. I want to get back to the Canucks for a bit. Um, in the coaching thing is a, is a good way to do it. Um, Rick Tocket right now, like, can you handicap whether or not you think you'll be back next season as the head coach of the Vancouver Canucks? I can't, I don't have a crystal ball, but I would say that it is at least judging by social media, it is peak Vancouver to get to this spot in the season and now seeing the reactions that I'm

seeing on social media, him being called a dinosaur, essentially trying to run him out of town. I've seen tweets asking for him to be fired at this point in time. Does everyone remember or are we forgetting that he was he's the reigning Jack Adams award winner as coach of the year? And I look, I get the Jack Adams curse and all that comes with it. But is it not a little soon to get to this point already with Rick Tocket, especially given all the changes that have happened with this team year over year.

Well, just so you know, the general is that not fair to say just so you know, the general narrative is that the media in Vancouver is sticking up for Rick Tocket and, you know, refuses to criticize him. And I'm kind of like, yeah, he's not first on my list. I'm looking at the players and two of their best players had a fight that lasted so long and got so bad that one of them had to be traded. And the one guy that was left has been a shell of his former self. So yeah, Rick, talking and you're the finalist

has been hurt all year. Yeah, to be taking out of them and taking him out of the mix because he's missed so much time and oh by the way like if the next if you're gonna look at the players first for me at number two i'm looking at roster construction yep this team is a shell of itself from last year they can't create there's there's no one out there creating chances or just doing it by himself, except for Quinn Hughes on the backend when he's healthy. The forward group right now, but who do you lay, who's like, who do you lay that at the feet of?

For me, it starts with the players. Like they couldn't get along with each other. That's, that's not great. So whoever started the fight or ever continued on, I don't know who to blame other. That's, that's not great. So whoever started the fight or ever continued on, I don't know who to blame, but you know, it's on at least one of those players. And with Pedersen, you know, I know he scored a couple of goals in the last little while, but five on five, he's still not creating much anymore. and and I just I don't know the risk of doing this all again next season with Pedersen on the lineup must be I mean it is massive but they're in such a

pickle because if they trade Pedersen and he takes off first of all they're gonna look awful second of all now they're really screwed down the middle. Yes, not a comfortable place to be, but again, from all the things you said and from what I said, how does this come back to the coach? Why is it suddenly the coach's fault? Are we just looking for someone else to blame? This is, I think this is pretty much, yeah, that's pretty much it. A lot of people will blame anyone but the players themselves. Right. I think is arguably the best coaching staff in the league when you consider the head coach and his assistants.

It's in the top five for me. So if you want to if you want to criticize the coach and tackle him next, I mean, by all means, pile on just just don't expect the answer to the first part of your question to be that it's likely that he ends up coming back next year. Cause of all of the reasons you just outlined, why would you want to? Um, do you think Philly would hire Taka? I think they should have from jump street to be honest. Um, yeah, I think they should have from jump Street to be honest Yeah, I think they would But John Torrell has another year left on his deal

There's always been rumors that he might get kicked upstairs though Yeah, I don't I don't know how accurate those are. I've heard them I think everyone's seen John Torrell is sitting in the press box for some games and has Wondered about the possibility of it. I don't know how likely that is. I look here's what I'll say about Rick Tocket. If he is not coming back, he's going to have five different jobs to choose from. And I know people are looking at the board going, huh, how is that possible? Look at all these coaches that are new. Well, there's still a couple of interims and I

would bet that you'd see someone move on from their coach just to be able to get Rick Tocket. Let's talk a little bit about Buffalo because I'm getting sad and I need someone else's sadness to make me feel happy. What did you make of the rumors or the report, I guess, from Spit and Chicklets that Rosmus Dallin wants out.

The Sabres pushed back on that pretty hard and so did Dahlene, but you know I think when everyone looks at Buffalo they're like yeah I wouldn't be surprised. I mean part of that is the general vibe that's been emanating in Buffalo for a while. I, I think if you're happy in that situation, there's probably a little bit something wrong with your situation that you, you know, can't just be about the paycheck, like you've got to have something in you that makes you want to compete and get to a better place and actually play meaningful hockey games. So the fact that players would be upset and yearning for direction there, I think is, is entirely accurate.

But of all the players that I've heard rumblings about either behind the scenes or from other teams or teams that are wondering or asking about players, Rasmus Dallin's name hasn't come up once, hasn't come across my radar once. I've heard Owen Power, I've heard obviously JJ Peturka, I've heard you know we went through the Dylan Cousins situation. I have not heard Paige Thompson, like Paige Thompson and Rasmus Dallin are basically the only two players that I have not heard people ask about or be curious about. I'd say after that, everything's on the table.

We are speaking of Frank Ceravalli from Daily Face Off here on the Haliford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650. There wasn't a team more busy at the deadline than the Boston Bruins with all the moves. They made punctuated by the Brad Marchand trade to Florida at the very end of it. What did you make of the work that the Bruins did on deadline day? To be honest, I know people are really upset about the Marshand trade and where he ended up and part of it's, you know, there's multi layers to it, right? Part of it is they're just angry to see him go period. Then they see the reporting about

how close they might have been on a contract, at least in fans eyes. And they see that as unforgivable. And then there's the last part, which is also just the destination, right? This is, you know, the new beast of the East or the team that's, you know, obviously having gone to or shooting for a third straight Stanley Cup final in a different category than some others and the way that they play and the playoff matchups that they've had, it's been tough for Bruin fans to digest. Having said all that, I give the Boston Bruins a solid B plus at this deadline because if you're going to rip the bandaid off, go out and do it and be as

aggressive as possible. And you trade Carlo, you trade Frederick, you trade Brazzo, you trade Coil, and then Marshand. You got significant returns and you've been able to stockpile your system with assets that you can now use to go, quote, retool. And this Bruins team has the ability to bounce back in relatively short order compared to some other teams. They've got a top 10 winger in the game. They've got a top 10 defenseman in the game and McEvoy, and they've got a top 10 goalie in the league and Jeremy Swainman. So when you take all those things and you match them all together, if you're going to make changes, give yourself some flexibility. And that's what Boston did in a big way. Brad Marshawn's new team, the Florida Panthers, they had a busy week and got some pretty wild

news this week with Aaron Echblad's 20 game suspension for PED use. And one of the takeaways was this from this was that guys don't get caught all that often in the National Hockey League using performance enhancing drugs. I believe it was what seven years between Nate Schmidt failing a test and then Aaron Ekblad failing a test. So there's that backdrop to all this as well. Is there anything interesting emanating from the Ekblad suspension in your mind? I don't think so. The only thing I'd be curious about and I haven't gotten an answer to it yet would be when did the Florida Panthers first learn of the positive test? Right.

And usually some of those things take a while. Like you first hear that there was a positive test and then there's a B sample and there's all these other things that go into the process before it finally becomes public and official that this player has been suspended for PDs that Did they know about that? Suspension before the Seth Jones trade now I could argue that it doesn't really matter because you have five additional years of Seth Jones and I could see them Saying hey, what's what's the difference?

But I just be curious if that pushed along the trade but other than that not really that interesting Frank This was great as always thanks for taking the time to do it. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the week We'll do this again next Wednesday This sounds good. See you guys see you later That's Frank Sir Valley from daily face off a presentation of angry at our liquor here on the Haliford and brush on sportsnet 650 Okay We got an open segment on the other side Randeeeeb's going to join us at the top of hour three. Text in any questions or comments into the Dunbar Lumber text line at 65650. Metro

Bankers Trust of Choice for contractors and Renner Warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at dunbarlumbert.com. You could have a question about tonight's game and whether or not you think Quinn Hughes is going to start. Um, you could have a question about factor Demko and when we're going to see him next, the Canucks have another back to back next weekend.

Could he be ready for that? Who knows at this situation, I suppose. But what do you think the Canucks should do with their goal tending tonight? Do you think it was a mistake to start Lankton in last night? Anything that's at the top of your mind, whether it's Rick Taukett's future, Elias Pedersen's future, Brock Besser's future. Text in, ask us questions, and we'll try to answer them the best we can. You are listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd.

And Thomas Drance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. 731 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday everybody. Halford Brow of Sportsnet 650. This feels like a rejected song from Tetris or something like that. Sort of getting four, four Inspector Gadget vibes.

I said that last time we played this. I'm getting Clockwork Orange. I said that last time we played this. Yeah. I'm getting Clockwork Orange. Again. You said that last time. For this one? The only one that came up with anything new? Yeah, yeah. As per usual.

I just like it. It's a good little bit. But we don't have to come up with a new thing if it reminds us of something. But I just got the Inspector Gadget, too. Yeah, it's different time signature, but it's- Evil Inspector Gadget in Clockwork Orange. There we go. Ooh, you hear this guy, time signature. Yeah, it's different different time you go, but it's evil inspector gadget and clockwork orange There we hear this guy time signature. Who is the bad guy and inspector gadget? You remember? I can't believe I do but mr. Cloth. Yeah

Good work Andy. You can't believe you don't know the bad guy Like 20 I'd be surprised Regularly there was a reason I put that question directly to you, Adrian. He's got the little cat, turns the chair around, there's no body, it's just a clock. See, you remember. You are listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for. Sales, financing, service, or parts. We are now in the program. Hour 2 is brought to you by Jason Hominick at jason.mortgage.

If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. I am joking. Let him do that. Visit him online at jason.mortgage. We're not 100% certain who's going to play in net for the Vancouver Canucks tonight. We assume and confidently assume, is that a good way of putting it? Confidently assume it's going to be Kevin Lankin for a second consecutive night. I can also confidently assume that it'll be Dustin Wolf yet again in net for the Calgary Flames. That's the Dustin Wolf. A one nothing victor his last time out, that was Saturday against the Montreal Canadiens, who the Vancouver

Canucks faced last night. I think that Dustin Wolf should be the runner up for the Vezna this year. I know that Connor Hellebuyck's going to get it. But. Not Vassie? No. I thought about this.

You saw Woodley's take, didn't you? Woodley had a take? Well, they said, is Wolf gonna win the Calder? And he said, I think he should be in the running for the Veznas. Yeah, he's not gonna win it, but he should be in the running, and I think he should be the runner up for it.

I would even give him, I would throw him a couple like fourth and fifth place heart trophy votes for what he's done this year. Wow, heart trophy. They have scored 10 goals in their last six games. I thought you were gonna say all season. No, how are they in a playoff spot? That's awesome. They've scored 10 goals in their last six games. I thought you were gonna say all season. No, how are they in a playoff spot? That's awesome.

They scored 10 goals since October. They won a lot of shootouts after zero, zero games. He's been unbelievable. Another thing I did not know about young Calgary Flames netminder Dustin Wolf, he is tiny. He's six feet tall. I think he weighs like 137 pounds. It's more than that, but he is.

Oh, by the six feet tall. Right, he's not six feet tall and I think he weighs like 137 pounds. It's more than that, but he is- Oh, by the six feet tall. Right, he's not six feet tall and he is very, very skinny. So the fact that he's been able to do this, playing the workload that he has, as ostensibly a rookie, I know he had a little bit of experience prior to this, and given no run support at all, very impressive year for Dustin Wolfe. Hey, by the way, a lot of people are texting in

and I thought this, but I wasn't confident enough to say it Dr. Claw, you didn't go to med school for seven years to be called. Mr. Claw. That's right. Okay I forgot he's a medical doc. You know what? He was actually a dentist. Oh dentist. Okay. Yeah All right his practice didn't work out and he was like, I'm evil now Yeah, stunning number of people texting in right away. Dr. Claw. A lot of 80s listeners.

You idiots. Someone else pointed, the cat was actually named Mad Cat. Do you guys remember the 60s or maybe 70s animated? I don't remember those decades I was not alive. Well, he was in his 20s back then. The animated Winnie the Pooh movie, did you ever watch that as a kid? Where's this going buddy?

Heffalumps and Woozles. Do you remember that? Where is this going, buddy? That's what the intro song reminds me of. If you were to play the intro song back to back with Heffalumps and Woozles right next to each other. What is going on right now? Okay. We're going to go to Deep Cove J. Let's dive into the Dunbar Lumbertex line.

I'm just going to forget that even happened. Somebody will agree with me. Okay. Turn his mic off. even happened. Somebody will agree with me. Okay, turn his mic off. The question is, are we Canada's worst team? Yeah. Right now we are.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not Winnipeg, it's not Toronto, and it's not Edmonton. Oh, and- It's not Ottawa, and Calgary's ahead of the Canucks, and it's not Ottawa and Calgary's ahead of the Canucks and Montreal beat them last night. So that's the list right now.

I understand the question because if you go to the overall league table, the Canucks are still technically ahead of the Habs by one point. So you would say by the standings of the day, Montreal is a quote unquote worst team than Vancouver, but Jason astutely pointed out that the two worst teams in Canada played last night and Montreal beat Vancouver. Um, I would say where things are trending, I,

I, it didn't take me more than what, two seconds to say Vancouver right now. Um, there was a question that came in about, I just got to find it. It was basically, oh, it's from Scott and Surrey. Okay. What assets do the Canucks have that can get them needle movers at the forward position this off season?

Very good question. That first round picks burning a hole in their pocket. I'll tell you that. Yep. Why didn't they trade suitor and Foreboard for draft picks? Because they wanted to try and make the playoffs this year. How's that going? Not great.

Yeah. Yeah. So maybe they should have started accruing draft picks. Oh, it's too late. The trade is past. So the other one is of course, Elias Patterson. And I don't know what he's returning you right now. I don't know what, I don't, you know, Frank has come on our show before and said, at this point, if you're

trading Pedersen, it's like a salary dump. Um, and there was a pretty good, good question that came in, um, that was basically, I apologize, I've lost it here, but basically what is the bolder choice? Is it to hold on to Pedersen and hope he bounces back? That was basically, I apologize I've lost it here, but basically what is the bolder choice? Is it to hold on to Pedersen and hope he bounces back or is it to trade him and risk that you're not going to get much in return and then he bounces back somewhere else? What is the bolder choice?

The bolder. In terms of how it's going to be received by the general public and everybody else, the trade? Just the status quo is never bold Status quo isn't bold keeping things the same is not bold. I think it would be no I think I think it would be in terms of the two options. Well, what does it define bold bold is like Exciting daring no I see a risk. Yeah, but I see it. You want me to bring up the dictionary definition of bold? Yeah, like I think it would be almost.

Showing an ability to take risks, confident and courageous. I think it would be. Having a strong or vivid appearance. I think it would be what the kids call hella risky to bring Pedersen back. Not only are you giving him more control in any trade scenarios because his no move clause kicks in. I think you're risking your most highly paid player continuing to struggle and then you're even more stuck with him because right now at least you've

got the argument he just needs an off season. what if he gets that offseason he comes back and he's still not a player then you're really stuck with him do you know how bad that could get if I know how bad that see I think you're equating bold with another word wrong if it was the wrong decision then yes I would say that that is the one because it's the wrong decision to sit and wait and let this thing play out Any further I mean that's that is my very clear very definitive stance on this and I'm trying to separate like the Chucking dirt on the guy while he on his way out of town. Like I just think that for every party involved including Pedersen a

New start in a new location that's not Vancouver with all the residuals here is the best solution. It's still pretty likely they trade him at the draft, right? I don't think anything's likely because there's things working against you and one of them is his plummeting asset value and the other one is you know you get closer and closer to July 1st and all of a sudden there's a little bit Of panic involved because once he starts to control the process It's an entirely different conversation. I'm saying the draft so you'd have to before July 1st, right?

But then you're talking about are we taking a deal that we like or are we taking a deal that we have to because come July 1 he starts to control the process Like even you yourself have said like can they really do this all over again next year? I don't, I don't think so, but I understand what Jason's saying is that the opposite of taking pennies on the dollar is keeping the dollar and hope that it grows, right? Maybe, maybe with a full off season of proper

training and tendonitis rehab that he'll come back or maybe his head will be cleared but for me. It's just such a bad situation all around. I mean the most, the best situation, the best situation is obviously that he has a good offseason and he comes back and he plays at a very high level. But are you willing to risk the downside of that not happening if you keep them? I'm not.

Because if you trade them, you're, I mean, you've opened up cap space. So that's, you know, Michael texted in and said, give us the glass half full assessment of the team's future boys. It was like, okay, well the glass half full assessment of the team's future is if you make some bold moves and you trade Pedersen and you don't resign better,

then it opens up opportunities for others. And there's cap space there. And sometimes in sports, you just don't know how that vacuum's going to get filled. And sometimes you are happy to see someone take an opportunity that maybe he didn't have somewhere else and and he makes the most of it with your team but I mean it's I know it's it's hard to sell the glass half full right now there it isn't trending very

well at all. When Jim Rutherford spoke to Gary Mason of the Globe and Mail before the JT Miller trade I think it's important to remember this and SAP pointed this out on the post game show yesterday. There was a large sense of disappointment and displeasure with both players, both players. It was very clear that management was not happy with Miller and Pedersen, right? Like we can make that clear. Definitely, definitely. And I've been guilty of this as well, as framing it as they made the choice

to move Miller and keep Pedersen. And I think sometimes I've used that as part of an argument to like, while they're constantly trying to appease Pedersen. But I wanna make this like abundantly clear. When Rutherford said what he said to the Globe, I think it was partly we're OK moving off both of these players. We're not happy with either of these guys. And I think part of it was the assets that we can return from both of these players

could allow us to fundamentally alter the makeup of this team moving forward. I, to think that it was, we're, you know, we're sacrificing Miller to save Pedersen. It's a nice, easy, tightly tied up narrative. And especially again, like I've said, when you're using it about like, well, they've done everything to appease Pedersen. But the reality is this group was not happy

with either guy. And I would say still would not be thrilled with what number 40 has done in the aftermath. Yeah. I mean, Freach has said, I think he said it on the 32 Thoughts podcast, when the season ends, whenever that is, they're going to have a real sit down with Pedersen and have, I think he

described it as like a come to Jesus moment with Pederson. And, you know, I don't know what that conversation looks like, but they're going to have to have a big conversation. And, you know, if I was, and hopefully I will, attend the season ending press conference, the question I would ask of management is do you know and are you confident with what happened? Because before you can fix anything, you have to know what happened. And us in the media and in the fan base, Alphron and I are kind of both. Like we're still in this, we're still in this area where none of us know for sure. I mean, some people are pretty confident.

And I'm pretty confident in my take, frankly, that a lot of it's mental. Right? But I will allow that if he had some tendonitis, maybe that affected his offseason. He wasn't able to come in as prepared. But I don't know. You know, like, don't get your information from me. Only get your hot takes. Yes. Right?

Like, my question for management. Simply here for the takes. And it's like, is everyone on the the same page at least on what happened? Because I was really, really struck by what Rick Tocke had had to say a little while ago when he was actually speaking positively about Pedersen and he was saying, you know, for the last 48 hours I I've really seen him working hard and kind of it was like, this is what we've wanted to see all season, which was great.

But then you have to ask yourself the question, well, what the hell was going on before then? Like this isn't media trying to spin a positive in a negative way. That is an obvious question. The whole team was burning around him. And what was he not working hard? Well this is why...

What was he not doing anything? Like what's going on? So whatever the issue is, they have to have a good handle on it. That's what I'm getting at because I don't think anyone outside of your organization can honestly say that I'm 100% certain what's happened with this guy. Yeah, which is why I think that the trade is the most logical solution on all of it. And I have seen some people text in and say that if you trade Pet PD, you may as well just start to brace to, for the inevitable departure of Hughes. Possibly I'll say this, but hold on.

I will say this. Not because of PD though, just because of the future of the organization. But you can't like, I think people are, people don't seem to think like there has been more movement in the last two years in the national hockey league than we've said, seen over the last 10 in terms of big names, superstar players being on the move, right? And it's start, I mean, you talk about Kachak being moved. Just look at in season this year, you had trades involving JT Miller,

Miko Randin and Brad Marchand all in a singular year. Like you can wheel and deal with the cap going up and if you've got some tools in your belt and you've got some picks and assets at your disposal. Now, I think this is where the Canucks this year's deadline might end up killing them, is that they didn't go like Andy was saying and recoup assets for guys like Souter

and Forebort and Vesser. Cause at the very least, if you load up and you get some assets in your pocket, you can say, we're gonna go into this off season and we're going to be wildly aggressive, right? We're going to do the things that we wanted to do and we are going to reshape this thing. And you could use Washington as a not half bad example of how you are able to retool and bring in some pieces and make things work on the fly. Yeah, it's one out of 32 teams.

And yeah, they had a lot of luck go their way. And they had some really good players there as well. But Washington is, I mean, they were very aggressive on the trade front and they made moves and they brought guys in and look at them now. I do think there's a possibility there, but this management group has made a bunch of mistakes

this season. And one of the big mistakes was honestly, going into the day trade deadline and trying to play both sides of it, moving off some pieces, but also keeping guys around that might not be here for the longterm. If you wanted to be active trading, if it started with Pedersen and it trickled down, you needed to have a lot, you need to have a lot of bullets in the chamber and you

didn't have a lot of assets that you're willing to move out and they didn't do a great job of recouping them at this year's deadline. What I find interesting is some people's just ongoing loyalty to Pedersen. Like Fish Dancer texts in. Ah, Fish Dancer. And he, you know, like he's a respectful texter, but he says

trading Petey would be the biggest mistake this franchise has ever made. The constant campaigning for it is gross. It's gross to suggest trading a guy whose play has fallen off so badly that I constantly say like, I've never seen anything like it. I think, I think part of having him get back on track is it probably would need to happen somewhere else. He would not be the first young, talented

borderline superstar player in the NHL to change locales and rediscover his game. I mean, don't take it as us trying. I'm not. Give me an example. Well, I mean, look't take it as us trying, I'm not just. Give me an example. Well, I mean, look at Eichel's career after he left Buffalo.

Eichel's a mess in Buffalo, and a physical component to that as well, for sure. But it was not going great. Yeah. Right? But I don't think his play ever dipped to the level that Pedersen's play has dipped to. No, but that's what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the lows. I'm talking about-

Well, I am, I am. People are acting like this is normal. Like you're just going through a slump. They're still acting like this is normal. This is not normal. Right. You know, like- So what I'm saying is let them go find normalcy

somewhere else. I mean, I 100% agree with that. Yeah. I don't think it's- But like, I don't understand the people who won't even entertain the idea of trading the latest because they're crazy they're fans are you crazy because they're fans they like the guy they want to see him do well here they've developed an affinity for him they pay money to go

watch him play hockey and he's been here for a while like you're gonna be fair there is a high probability that as soon as the Cucks trade him he regains his form and becomes a superstar with Canucks luck and being the history I guarantee you that would happen. Yeah. Which is why I could understand, even though I wouldn't be opposed to a trade of Pedersen, I could totally see why a fan would be like,

ooh, that's a big risk, because it is a big risk. You would have to come to grips with it. Imagine if he regains his form. If you wanna look at it in a very unique way, think about it as like, let him go, let him fly, let him be free, right? Maybe you don't recoup all the assets that you would for a star player.

Maybe you lose the trade, but maybe he does well somewhere else. And then- So that's even worse then. Yeah, but- So not only do you lose the trade and trade him for nothing pennies on the dollar, he then also regains his form and becomes a star again.

But again, the entire crux of my argument is that it's not gonna happen here. Like regaining form might happen, but it's not gonna happen here. Like regaining form might happen, but it's gonna happen somewhere else. I just think there's way too much excess baggage, residual scarring, however you wanna put it. It's not great for him. Like do you know how bad it's gone

when we're giving him like, like ooh, he shot the puck. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. You know, like, congratulations. And he kind of moved his feet a little bit on. It was a nice goal last night. It was a nice goal, but Adog, like, the bar has dropped. I know.

Solo. It's just like, hey, he's shooting the puck again. You know, it got to the point where Rick Tauett said, he needs to have courage to shoot the puck. And that's why I get back to the whole like Yips thing, right? Which, you know, maybe I'm not talking about the traditional like can't make a six foot putt or whatever.

I'm talking about like scared to pull the trigger. Well, last night he looked like he had confidence in his shot and it was a great shot. Yes. The trick now is of course, he's got to do this. But he always needs, I mean, he always needs something, you know, it's like Once he shoots once and it goes okay, then he has that confidence But Kim are we are we now gonna worry every time that this goes away, you know

Like this is twice now that this slump has occurred and it's kind of like weird slumps You know when you're like loses mental and everyone's like occurred and it's kind of like weird slumps, you know, when you're like, Louis is mental and everyone's like, no, it's his wrist. I brought up, I brought up, I brought up Washington. Like perfect example is what Dubois has done this year. Dubois was a toxic asset last year. Nobody wanted a piece of Dubois. Nobody. LA signed him to that deal. He was one year into the deal and they shipped him out. One year into a massive extension, they're like, this is not going well, but he found success somewhere else. And yeah, it probably sucks for LA.

They're probably like, I wish we had that player now. He's almost the point of game center in the East for one of the best teams in the NHL. But it wasn't working in LA and LA was just like, we're just going to cut our losses now. Like he might regain the form that made him Pierre-Luc DuBois in Washington, we'll take that risk. And we're sending him to Washington with the contract that we signed him to. We went out and acquired him.

They paid a huge amount of capital for him. They paid the three roster players to get him out of Winnipeg. And then they sent him a year away a year later for Darcy Kemper, complete with the contract that he signed, which is going to look like a great contract if he keeps this up. But they made the decision that it wasn't going to happen in LA. It might help it happen elsewhere. And in Dubois case, he probably hoped it would happen elsewhere too.

And it has, but it wasn't going to happen in LA. Not with that team and that room and that group of guys and that coaching staff and that style of play. All of it. There was just, the year went coaching staff and that style of play, all of it. There was just, the year went so badly, they fired a coach and all of it, that they moved on. And now he's got 57 points in 65 games for one of the best teams in the NHL. It's, it is wild. And this works both ways, but it is wild how a new locale

and a fresh start and a new place can completely invigorate a player, right? And we have seen it on the other side too. I always remember talking to Yannick Hansen when he got traded to San Jose. And I was like, how did it not work out for you? Like, it would be perfect. You've got all these veteran guys,

great centers down the middle. You're a hardworking winger that retrieves pucks. You think you would find a guy to play with. And he just said, never worked, never fit. He tried his ass off. He played with everybody and it just never worked. Well, with Pedersen, I think the market is a factor for sure.

I mean, we've talked about his, the fact that he, almost every time he talks to the media, he says, well, I hope this part doesn't become a headline. And then you compare it with Brady Kachuk, who's happy for everything to become a headline. I'd rather the guy that embraces the attention that he's going to get and doesn't care about what's written about him or what's said, the headlines are going to be the headlines. Hey man, you're the biggest star or one of the biggest stars in this city, this hockey mad city.

Like again, anything you do is going to be a headline. And if that's a problem, then that's a problem. And if that's going to affect your play, then that's a big problem. One final hour to go. You're listening to the Halford and Braff show on Sportsnet 650. Hopefully I will attend the season-ending press conference. The question I would ask of management is, do you know... The Muffin Man? The Muffin Man? The Muffin Man? Yes, I know the Muffin Man. Who lives on Drury Lane?