Halford & Brough in the Morning - Frank Seravalli On Why Rick Tocchet Might Have Left The Canucks

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with Daily Faceoff NHL insider Frank Seravalli (1:18) on why Rick Tocchet might have left the Canucks, plus they speak with Whitecaps assistant coach Michael D'Agostino (23:10) ahead of tonight's big Champions Cup semi-final matchup tonight versus Inter Miami. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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703 on a Wednesday! Frank! You are listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford & Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands & Associates. BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3000 5-star reviews. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program.

As the music suggests, Frank Ceravalli from Daily Faceoff is going to join us in just a moment here. Hour two of this program is brought to you by Jason Homonuck at jason.mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at jason.mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio kintec footwear and or thought ex working together with you in step to the phone lines We go Frank Sarah Valley from daily face-off joins us now on the halferd and brough show on sportsnet 650

He is a presentation of angry otter liquor. Good morning, Frank. How are you? Pretty good. How you guys doing? We're well It's been a an eventful morning following a very eventful afternoon and evening yesterday in Vancouver. When you heard the news that Rick Tauke was no longer going to be the head coach of the Vancouver Canucks, what was your reaction? Surprise? Did you expect it? Did you not? How did you react to the news that Rick Tauke is no longer the head coach of the Vancouver Canucks? No, I expected it. Once we got to the end of last week and there was no announcement

from the Canucks that Rick Tocket would be returning and there was seemingly very little progress, I think it was probably a foregone conclusion at that point. And I think as the week dragged on, the Canucks got a real better sense that, hey, this might not be happening. And I think there's certainly a finality that hits to it. And I think the first thing that I think back to is just how incredibly wild and crazy this last calendar year is. I mean, this time last year,

the Canucks are wrapping up their series win over the Preds and getting set to face the Oilers who they took to game seven. Rick Tocket then gets named coach of the year. Everything seems to be pointing in an upward trajectory and now here you are picking up the pieces a year later, it's, I mean, it's unconscionable. If the Flyers job hadn't become available, do you

think Tocket might've made a different decision? I don't think that this has even 1% to do with the Philadelphia Flyers or any other opening to be honest. I mentioned to you guys before that when you arrive at the natural breaking point like this with a contract and you have to decide one way or the other to stay or go. It offers you a point of inflection to reflect on where you've been and where you're heading. And this wasn't in the end about dollars, it wasn't about logo or geography,

or like a lot of those things might be 5% factors, but this is purely about Rick Tockins' vision for where this is heading. And I think an opportunity to do it the right way and win. And I think, to be honest, the dysfunction that exists in the Vancouver Canucks organization from top to bottom, it repels a lot. And you have some incredibly loyal people, Rick Tocket, Brock Besser, go through the list, JT Miller bled for that team. They're on their way somewhere else. And the big reason for that is right from the very top and how that filters through everyone else.

This is one of the most dysfunctional organizations in the league. It's one of the most dysfunctional organizations in pro sports. That chaos wears on people, fact. And with that, when you have an opportunity to take a peek and see what else is out there and see that there are seven openings right now, seven other openings, and the potential

for maybe three more, two or three more, depending on how things shake out here in the first round, I think instead of this being about the flyers, this was about, am I reasonably confident that I'll be able to get a job elsewhere? And I think the answer for Rick Tocket was yes. And with that, there was always the fallback option of, if it doesn't work out, I can always spend a year at TNT again, trying to figure out what's next and find the right best fit for me. Do you think the higher ups in Vancouver and the people that really control this organization, are they going to have a moment of self-reflection? As we've talked about that a few times,

like this has been a long time now and there's been the odd high point, whether it was in the bubble or last season, but for the most part, this team has not functioned well. And you would think that there might be some thoughts about, Hey, should we maybe switch our philosophy up a little bit? Do you think that's going to happen? I would think if it was going to happen, it would have happened over the last number of weeks in an effort to try and retain Rick Tocket because I think what is abundantly clear, whether you think he's

a great coach or not, and there seemed to be some speculation on social media and in the Vancouver market over the last couple of months of the season that he's not, what is undeniable is that the best foot forward that this franchise has put together over the last 13 years or 14 years has been under Rick Hockett's guidance and you've heard the vocal support from your superstar defenseman and perennial NARS trophy candidate. You've heard it from people that have left the organization. Why wouldn't you want to get things in order to try and maintain some semblance of the positive approach and success that you've had? If you can't do it for that, then I mean, that way would also require some serious introspection to look at, hey, how have things gone awry here?

How do we fix it? And when you have a situation that spans multiple regimes, I don't know where else you leave to point to. You mentioned Rick Tuckett's vision of what he saw in the future in Vancouver. Is it fair to suggest that Tuckett's vision when he was looking into the future maybe didn't involve or include Queen Hughes wearing a Canucks uniform? I couldn't even begin to hazard a guess on that. I honestly like I would assume that

his thought process would be with Quinn Hughes leading the charge. Whatever happens after that is certainly a question mark, but I don't know how far ahead he's thinking to be honest. My guess is that it probably starts with this next season and then figure out the rest after that. Because that was one of the major focal points from yesterday's media availability with Jim Rutherford was that Rutherford was asked straight up about Hughes' reaction to this and he made the aside that he hadn't had a chance to speak with him yet. We all know that Hughes had great admiration for Rick Tauket at Adam Foote, I guess we should point out as well.

You've mentioned the coaching staff on a number of occasions and how regarded well regarded is across the league. It was no more well regarded than with the captain of the team and it does give everyone in the market pause that if talk is looking at the future and decides no I don't want to be here the next logical question is well what about your captain? Well it's a totally logical and fair question to ask. I just don't know the answer to it. And I'm not even sure if at this exact moment in time that Quinn Hughes would know the answer to it. And so if that's the case, we're all just guessing.

How much do you think the roster and specifically the top six group and down the middle had weighed on Rick Tauket and he maybe looked at the Elias Pedersen situation and said, I don't know how much more I can do here. I've told this guy to keep his feet moving. I'm kind of out of answers here. And then knowing that JT Miller got traded, knowing that Philip Hedl, his health is a wild card and we all hope that Philip Hedl his health is a wild card. And we all hope that Philip Heidel can play

fully healthy next season. But even if he does, he's maybe a three C. And then the Canucks have essentially said, we got to go out and get some impact players in the top six. But all of us around here are racking our brains. They're like, how are you going to do that? And that's probably the same question that Rick Tauke was asking of of Patrick

Alvina and Jim Rutherford. I mean it's great to present a plan but how do you go about acquiring the pieces that you're thinking about or talking about? And yeah I think the the overall wild-card nature of the roster with Pedersen, I think, being a way bigger one than than Hedl. Like, I don't know how you if you're not getting the bare minimums, the non-negotiables, the proper offseason preparation and training. I don't know how you could reasonably expect, if it goes the way that it did last year and into the playoffs and then you have a player who you try and impress upon those things in the summer and he blows you off and shows up again in a spot that you're not

comfortable with. How do you have any faith that that's going to work itself out if and only if he's actually even still part of the roster next fall? Like either direction of that is uncomfortable with him there or without. And I'm sure that part and the overall roster construction, the pipeline, you know, outside of La Caramackey and Tom Willander, which is a whole different question. What's next? Like who's the next wave and where's that coming from? And how do you find a way to have that sustain or prop up your roster? Like all of that factors into the vision and longterm planning, I'm sure.

We're speaking to Frank Saravalli from Daily Faceoff here on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. So finding another head coach is another thing added on the to-do list for Jim Rutherford and Patrick Alveen now. Moving in further into the off season, I got a two-part question here. What is the list or short list of candidates look like to be the next head coach of the Vancouver Canucks? And going back to that reputation for dysfunction that you mentioned earlier, do you think that's going to impact the quality of coaching candidates that they might have on

that list? Maybe not the quality of coach that they're going to be able to get because it's still to be able to get because it's still one of 32. But what I think it will impact is how far they reach to try and get a quality coach, in other words, are they going to be pounding the pavement to try and land someone with a long resume, Stanley cups and 700 plus games coached in this league and pay top dollar to do it. I doubt it. I would suggest that on the back end of swinging and missing on Rick Tocket that you probably go with a check down option that's going to cost you a little more than a third of that. And especially for all of the reasons that we just mentioned in this upcoming year of transition, find someone who can be a really comfortable stopgap that can take bullets,

that can try and develop as much as possible any young pieces that are inserted into the lineup, and see if you can roll the dice and maybe punch above your weight class and get lucky. We're speaking to Frank Saravalli from Daily Faceoff here on the Haliford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. Now I know you said that you don't think that Tuckett's decision had much to do with Philadelphia but in light of yesterday's news how much more maybe emboldened is the word, or how much more excited is Philadelphia

with the possibility of landing him? I mean, I think there's no doubt that they're a team that would or will be interested. They have slow played their process. They really haven't begun any formal interviews. And one of the other things that they were looking for, in addition to seeing how this talk-it thing would play out, they have interest in some guys

that are currently coaching in the playoffs, whether they're assistants or some other potential changes that we might see after the end of round one. So there hasn't been a big rush for them, but there's no doubt that a guy that's in their team's hall of fame, that has a big rush for them, but there's no doubt that a guy that's in their team's hall of fame that has a connection to the marketplace that has been recognized as a top coach and a familiarity,

like they desperately need to find relevance. The Flyers have become for the first time, really in my lifetime living here, in a relevant product in this marketplace. And they need to grasp on or latch on to anything that they can to try and find some of that again. And Rick Tocket would be one way to bring in a lot of different sections of the fan base and kind of

bring it all back together again. Is it possible for the Flyers to get back to the rough and tumble hockey or is that era just passed now? Is that gone? Because it was such a good selling point for them and they brought in the right types of players that could play that way.

And now I look at the Flyers and I'm just like, what is your identity anyway? Well, first off, those days in the league are gone and you can bring in all of the Nicolab DeLorey's or I mean, go through the last 15 years, Jay Rose Hills, Riley Cotes, whoever you want to pick a guy. Um, that's not how the game is one anymore. And frankly, that's not what's missing from the Flyers. The reason why they haven't been able to have any sustained success over the last two decades

is because they've gone about their business one and one way only, which was pre-salary cap, spend as much as you want. Ed Snyder provides a blank check. And they, I mean, think about it this way. We are just now passing the level of spending that the flyers were, or had in, in salary in the early 2000s in the salary gap. So they've, they've been a big dollar, big market team forever, but that doesn't work in the salary gap. You can't buy your way to a Stanley Cup.

You can't buy a world series like the Dodgers have. Yeah, it makes it worse sometimes. You can dig a bigger hole. That, and that's what they've done because what happens is they go out and spend it. And then there's a natural cyclical part of the process where if you don't have young guys coming in and then they're trading draft picks to try and support those free agent pieces that they have Then they get a general manager that comes in like a Ron Hextall and says okay

We need to stop all the nonsense. We need to totally do this in a patient methodical thoughtful way and Then they fire him after three years Because all of a sudden the patient plan. Oh, we don't like that anymore. We got to get going We need wins. That sounds familiar in the next guy Because all of a sudden the patient plan, oh, we don't like that anymore. We got to get going. We need wins. That sounds familiar, Frank. Sounds familiar. Yeah.

And then they bring in the next guy to then he starts the same process over again. And now you've got Danny Breyer, who is now trying to, again, slow things down with a methodical build. And you arrive at this point where, oh my God, we need a coach. We need someone that can help turn this thing around, it's not gonna be the coach that does it. And to be honest, if I were in Rick Tockett's shoes, as much as I have a strong connection to the organization,

I think it's one of the least desirable openings. Yeah, the money's gonna be there, you're gonna have support, you've got friends in the front office, but I just don't see that team going anywhere fast without a goalie, without a defenseman, and without a center. We're speaking to Frank Zara Valley from Daily Face-Off

here in the Haliford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650. Frank, before we let you go, there is something I wanted to discuss with you. I wanted to do it last week, but we ran out of time, and it's about the officiating in these playoffs, because I was listening to a hit that you did on sports 1440 in Edmonton where you said that NHL officiating is the worst it's been in decades.

And I don't want to point to the missed call on Aaron Echblad from Brandon Hegel as an example of that because I think there's a lot of different dynamics, but it did sort of reignite a lot of criticisms about officiating. And I kind of wanted to get your thought and your take about what you were talking about last week about how there's these data points that kind of show that NHL officiating is really down right now.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a crisis point for the league that no one seems to want to recognize. There's a lot of for the league that no one seems to want to recognize. There's a lot of different factors for it. Part of it is the game is just faster and it's more difficult to officiate. But then you're doing that at the same exact time where you've got so many inexperienced or relatively inexperienced officials. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but every night as a fan watching the game before I got into the business, you know, they'd say who the referees were on TV

and like, you'd know all of them by name or number. How many of them are left? We've talked about this before. I don't, I don't recognize any of the officials anymore or know who they are. Yeah, that's because so many of them have changed out and there's been turnover. And again, part of that goes back to the speed of the game. You've got to get more athletic, younger officials on the ice. But at the same time, you're plucking guys right from pro hockey that hang up their skates as players,

grab a whistle and haven't done a single game in their life. And all of a sudden they're doing an NHL preseason game as a referee. And you're trying to teach them all these different things and you're bypassing all of these career officials that have have officiated thousands of games through the minor hockey and junior hockey ranks or college and you're totally skipping over them who are then sitting back going wait a second these guys are getting fast tracked. What's the point of me spending 75,000 miles in my car this season traversing the continent when they're going to get picked anyway? And so then those guys fall off and you can point to the data and you can say, yeah, our plays down 12 to 14 percent year over year 800 fewer calls for some teams as of the

month of March I just I can't imagine that the league continues to stick its head in the sand and say hey nothing to see here move along like it's it's atrocious Frank thank you very much for doing this today we really appreciate you taking the time great Great insight as always. Enjoy the games tonight and the rest of the week. We'll do this again next week. See you guys. See you later.

Frank Zervalli from Daily Face Off here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Before we go to break, I need to do the one to watch brought to you by Delaney's OK Tire. The one to watch tonight, this one's quite obvious. Connor Hellebuck, the Winnipeg Jets goalie was pulled early in the third period after allowing a fifth goal to the St. Louis Blues in game four on Sunday. Now if that sounds familiar, it's because it is.

Eric Comrie replaced Hellebuck in net for the second game in a row. That game four marked the sixth straight road playoff game that Hellebuck has surrendered at least four goals. Only seven goalies in Stanley Cup playoff history have achieved that lowly feat and Hellebuck is now one of them and this comes in a week where he got his Vezna nomination which he probably will win as the NHL's top goalie. All eyes are gonna be on Connor Hellebuck tonight as the series thankfully gets off the road and shifts back to Winnipeg and the Jets look to take a 3-2 series lead.

It's time to put on your Toyo tires. Whether you drive a car, light truck or van, Toyo tires are designed to perform in all kinds of conditions. Visit Delaney's OK Tire in Langley and Aldergrove. OK Tire service, repair and tires. You're listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

Hey, it's Jamie Dodd. And Thomas Drance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. 730 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday everybody. Halpern and Bruff, Sportsnet 650. You get some of these tunes at a Miami nightclub tonight.

They were playing this on the Caps play the entire time as they were flying in. You are listening to the Hal Ferdinand Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Hal Ferdinand Brough for the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest.

Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We are in hour two of the program. Caps assistant coach Michael D'Agostino is going to join us live from Miami in just a minute here. Hour two of this program is about to be by Jason Homonuck at jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at jason.mortgage.

The White Caps are in Miami to take on Lionel Messi and Inter Miami in the second leg of their CONCACAF Cup semifinals tonight. Joining us now from Miami, Michael D'Agostino, Caps Assistant Coach here on the Halford and Bruv Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning Michael, how are you? I'm doing great, how are you guys doing? We're good, thanks for taking the time to do this today. First, let's set the scene in Miami. The mood, the atmosphere, the weather, the vibe, how are things ahead of kickoff? Yeah, I mean, it's been pretty calm on our front. We've tried to control, you know, the

narrative a little bit and make it more about ourselves than all of the other stuff around the game. And so, you know, weather obviously has been fantastic. It's been a little bit windy last couple of days, but yeah, we're ready to go and I think everybody's kind of kind of locked in and trying to avoid all the Stuff around the game and just focus on the actual game itself well I was I was gonna ask you about that because you know, there are the reports are hearing that there are some friends and family on the way on the on the flight and You know, it can be hard when there are distractions and there's a lot of hype.

So what are some things you guys are doing to keep the players focused on the number one goal? Yeah, so I guess to clarify on that, we came straight from Minnesota after the game on Sunday and there was a separate flight with family, friends, some fans as well. But they've been completely separate. So they flew on themselves, they're at different hotels, all that stuff. So really it's just been about us and the 25 guys that we have. You know, we brought everybody on the trip, all the players, including, you know,

our captain Galdi and Mathias LaVorta, who was injured. So everybody's here behind the team. You know, we haven't tried to make it any different than a normal game. You know, we spoke yesterday that this isn't an important game, but it's another game. We need to prepare the same way. We need to be more about ourselves and worry about what we want to do and not allow the kind of the distractions, as you mentioned, to take over. Going into the match, obviously you're up 2-0 on aggregate.

So there's a notion that you've got a two goal cushion to defend, but there's also that dangling caretaker that an away goal can be so incredibly valuable. So how does the mindset and mentality work for the group going in where you want to make sure that you're defensively responsible but not parking the bus and also want to attack but not reckless? How are you and Jesper relaying that message to the players? Yeah it's trying to find a balance. We've talked about the fact that we do need to come out strong. We can't let arguably the best player who's ever played and some very, very top players

come and take the game to us. Of course, we need to be careful. Like you mentioned, we can't be reckless and go for that goal, hoping that it's going to change everything because if they get one, it does change again. We're just looking at it, trying to find balance. And I think the strategy is going to be that we want to go out and put them under pressure. We want to take advantage of the fact that we can run more than them. We have better legs under us. Obviously they're good players. They're very crafty. They're very creative and they've got a lot of ability.

But I think from a physical perspective, we can take the game to them. And we're not going to be overly, overly reckless or overly, you know, going for that goal just because we know it makes a big difference, but we're also, uh, we're not going to sit back, definitely not going to sit back and try and find that balance. And we've told the players that. And I think they're fully behind that message. And, uh, and they know that we just need to go out and play our game and try to

make it about us and not about them. I'm always curious about how you prepare a team for the potential of bad things to happen during the game. Like you don't want to put the negative thoughts in their head, but do you have to prepare them for say, the possibility that Miami scores in the first two minutes? Right? Like what, what, what do we do then?

Is that something that they should already know or do you bring up scenarios like that ahead of the game? Yeah, it's a really difficult question to answer and it's a good question. You know, we haven't gone too much into scenarios. We've definitely talked about the fact that, you know, we want to go to them and let's say not go for the goal, but look to try and take the game to them.

And we also have talked about the fact that if they do score it will bring some nerves, it will change the game a little bit and how we can deal with that. But we haven't gone through, you know, scenario A, B, C, D, E, F, those types of things. You know, we're just trying to make it a little bit more about, okay, we understand that we've got a team that is now a little bit more experienced than it has been in the past. And we know how to handle these situations, the game against Monterey and Pumas, you know, helped us understand what these types of knockout games can be like and how important that legal is.

And so we've definitely prepared them, but we don't want to put too much in their head where now they're thinking about that rather than thinking about what's in front of them on the pitch. Hey, you know, with all the nerves, you got to admit, this is pretty cool. What happened at BC place. I was there, you know, as a fan there and man, it brought me back to some of the times when I was a kid and I would go to a full BC Place and it was so good to see and so good to see the Whitecaps come out with a result that left everyone happy

because Messi played the whole game but the Whitecaps won the game. How cool has this whole experience been? Because the experience isn't over yet. It has been cool. You know, you hit it spot on. It definitely is cool, but you know, we need to try to, from a team perspective, we need to just try and focus, but I do agree.

This is fantastic for the city. It's cool for the club. You know, it went very well in Vancouver, like you said, full sold out crowd, messy playing and us kind of taking the game to them. So all the things that we probably would have had on our checklist kind of happened. So from a club perspective and from a city perspective, yeah, it's fantastic. It's cool. It puts things back on the map a little bit. But from us now, it's different from a team perspective. We need to really focus on ourselves in the game.

But yeah, I totally agree with you. It's been a very cool experience. We're speaking to Whitecaps assistant coach Michael D'Agostino here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Michael joins us live from Miami, where the Caps will be in action tonight. Second leg of their CONCACAF Cup semifinal against Lionel Messi and Inter Miami. I don't expect you to fully pull back the curtain and give us all the tactical and strategical insights here. But after the first leg, inter head coach Javier Mascherano

said, Vancouver, they are very good physically. It was difficult for us to win the duels. And Jason and I were both in attendance. And we noticed a few things with the physicality. Specifically, there's a gap in pace and in speed, which is what I think you would suggest from a team that has a lot of it against an inter-team that while they have a ton of talent,

they're longer in the tooth. How are you guys able to exploit that physicality? Or is it just like, guys, you're faster, you're younger, go after it and get it? It's a little bit of both. I mean, we found some strategic ways tactically to try and exploit them. We know that they'll attack with, you know, seven guys,

sometimes seven, eight guys. And in transitional moments, they, you know, there's not a lot of getting that, you know, Suarez is not running back, Messi is not running back. You know, Alba is usually playing very high. So there's going to be moments where we can look to try and hit them in transition. And that doesn't mean that's going to be our game plan, but at the end of the day, yeah, the message has been, we are faster than them.

We can run more than them and we have to do that. You know, we have to go into the game making it that difficult for them. We need to be closing down players that receive the ball as quickly as possible. We need to look to try to hit transitional moments as much as possible. When we are under, you know, let's say pressure from them and they're attacking high, we need to get players behind the ball and not give them space. So, you know, being a physical team and a team that can put out a big physical output, it

definitely will be part of what we try and bring to the pitch tonight. Will it be an advantage for Miami to be back on grass? Because listen, I'm no expert on the sport, but I was at the game and I noticed that it looked like Miami was maybe having trouble with, Halford, you might have to help me out here with like the pace of the turf.

Slick. The slick, the slickness of the turf, like the, the, the ball was going faster than they might've expected. And there were a couple through balls that just went out for goal kicks. Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned that.

I don't want to say they'll have an advantage, but I think, you know, if I'm honest, we probably had an advantage in Vancouver. And that's not because we played on the turf. Uh, we, you know, it is a different turf. Uh, like you said, it is faster in some ways, but it's also slower in other ways. When the ball is played long and high, the ball sits a lot more than it would on a normal grass pitch. But when you keep it on the ground, it is slick and it moves quickly.

So I don't think they have an advantage. We play on grass. We train on grass every day. We play on grass on Saturday. We play on grass the majority of our training sessions and probably half of our games. But I would admit that maybe we had a slight advantage, you know, them coming in, not training on the pitch the day before the game at BC Place probably, you know, put them a little bit behind the eight ball and

when they had to figure out how the pitch kind of works for them. Yeah, you tricked them with the grass at UBC. It's like, no, no, BC Place is grass. Yeah, no, it is for sure. Very subtle move, but clever on behalf of the club. Mike, I want to give you a little bit of shine here because you're a local product and you've risen through the coaching ranks to get to where you are right now. And like the, I gotta ask you, like,

when you're sitting down and do you ever sort of have like, oh wow, this is actually happening or pinch yourself moment that there you are strategizing and coming up with tactics and strategies to try and go up against Lionel Messi? Yeah, I mean, I have to admit when you mentioned his name in meetings, it is a little bit different. And it's not that, you know, like, again, you mentioned, you know, coming from where, you know, where we started and where I started or, you know, okay, yeah, at the past, you know, top MLS players is a big thing.

And, you know, going into a game against Monterey, against Sergio Ramos, mentioning one of the best players that were played. But Lionel is, I think, at a level of his own and maybe only a couple other players could really say that he's at that level. So again, it's not about him, it's more about us. But to answer your question, yeah, you know, you're talking

about how to deal with him on certain scenarios and how we can try to exploit the best player who's ever played. Um, yeah, you can find pinch yourself moments within that for sure. Well, uh, Mike, I know you got a busy day ahead of you, so we'll let you go and get prepped for the match tonight. Thank you very much for doing this today. It's been an awesome ride. Thursday at BC Place was amazing. I hope tonight is equally as amazing and the next time we get you on the show maybe it's previewing your guys' spot in the CONCACAF Cup Final. I hope so. Thanks for having me and it's always a pleasure. Yeah, thanks for coming on Michael. We appreciate it. That's Michael D'Agostino, Whitecaps

assistant coach live from Miami here on the Halfford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. I have some good questions there. You got the very first difficult but good question. I don't think I've ever heard you getting praise for that one. So that's good. I always have wondered how coaches prepare in these pressure situations because there's this feeling like, don't put any negative thoughts in my head. But if you want to bring it back to hockey, right? Let's say you're Craig Berube.

Yep. And you're going into Ottawa for game six. It's kind of like, okay, well, guys, how are we going to react if Ottawa gets the first goal? Sure. And the place is going bonkers and everyone is saying, here come the Leafs, they're choking again and we're all thinking it. I think it's important to, um, be able to sit with those thoughts.

Does that make sense? Like to be able to train yourself to like, Hey, the negative thoughts are going to come and the, Oh boy, is this happening again? Thoughts are going to come and the, oh boy, is this happening again? Thoughts are going to come. So let's sit with those for a bit and get comfortable with them so they don't totally freak

us out. Because if you just try and like, just like, get these thoughts out of my head. Like, I don't think that's the right way to go about it. So the way that a lot of the coaches deal with that is instead of putting the thought like conceptually in someone's head, you practice literal actual physical scenarios that you might so that you got muscle memory in those moments. And then you don't have to speak about it. You can say, guys, we've prepped for this. So I remember listening to

someone, I think it was the Pete Carroll, early in the Pete Carroll tenure in Seattle, they would practice specific end of game scenarios where it'd be like, we're down 10 with three minutes remaining and it's a two score situation for us. So you're putting them in a situation of crisis, let's call it.

And then it's, what do we do in that moment? What do we do to get our way out of this? What are the plays that we call? How do we conduct our pace and tempo? And then when a situation arises in the game, maybe it's not a hundred percent the same, but there's a muscle memory and a familiarity that, okay, we know what it feels like to be in this particular scenario. I'm just imagining the Leafs go through this and like, Mitch, you can't cry. You can't.

Right. If there's one thing you cannot do, it's cry. No crying. God, that was a bad giveaway by Austin Matthews last night. Wow. On the power play. So, okay, what you're talking about is bigger

picture, Marner and Matthews' history of fading in series as they go along. Yeah. So traditionally, if you're unaware of the, and I don't have the stat in front of me, but I think it's something in the neighborhood of the numbers from the Leafs, big guns from games one through three in a series compared to four, one through four compared to five, six, seven. Uh, there's a dramatic fall off and I clip some audio.

Maybe I'll play it in what we learned later. Um, you know, Justin born talking about when you, you know, kind of no show that many times in the crunch games, it does kind of make you go back and like almost reconsider like your athletic or hockey DNA. Like when you grew up playing this sport or when you've practiced it throughout your, you know, collegiate ranks or junior ranks. And then as you become a professional, have you been in enough of those situations, the pressure situations, or is it always sort of been like,

everything's an exhibition because that's the great divide between the leafs of the 82 game regular season. And then the playoffs is perennially the big guys don the leafs of the 82 game regular season and then the playoffs is perennially the big guys don't show up in the clutch moments. And you can say, well, how do you define clutch? And what does it mean? It means when it's time to close out a series or play in a one game winner take all, or we need a moment right now. Do you have a history of doing it? I don't even think it's about elevating. It's more about not shrinking.

That's part of it. But when you say not elevating, like you can't just go out and flatline if you're counting on to score. No, no, no, but they elevate in the regular season. That's what they do. So just keep doing what you were doing in the regular season. Now, to be fair to Matthews and Marner, they had chances. Yes. They did have very good chances. They did not convert. But they did not convert. Yeah. And it's been. And now it's a thing.

Yeah, it's been a couple. Now it's a thing again. I'm very excited about tonight, by the way. I think that the white guys- Tell the listeners how to watch this game. If you've got one soccer- Flubbo. Flubbo. Yeah, watch them Flubbo. Okay, so One Soccer is the channel that I believe is available on certain providers actual cable menu. But you gotta pay for it. Yes.

Might be included in some. Is the best answer maybe to just go somewhere to watch it? You could do that. If you're- Call the place ahead of time and somebody's like, hey, are you gonna have the Whitecaps game on? Yeah, you could, if you're a subscriber, if you're a soccer person, you're a subscriber to Fubo. Or I guess if you like the rest of the Fubo offerings, because it's not just sports,

that is a channel that's included in their package as well. I'll tell you what we'll do. For what we learned, we'll come back with as much information as we can find about watch parties, bars, pubs that are showing the game. Cause yeah, are you smirking right now? Cause we're getting texts and I don't know how to watch the game tonight.

No, I'm getting texts like this. You two talk so much, you know what about the Leafs, what has your Canucks ever done in the playoffs, huh? Stay in your lane, you haters. Okay. The level of intelligence must be so high there. First of all, we know we're pathetic.

I agree. That's part of the bit. Like it's not, it's probably not like, I know it's kind of like, it's intentionally disarming, but it's funny when we spend an hour and a half of the show going like, making fun of ourselves for being Canucks fans and talking about all the problems in Vancouver and fully admitting that we are coping by watching the Leafs lose. But it's kind of sad when people aren't in on the joke. Do you know what I mean? It's somewhat sad. It makes me sad that someone would text that in.

And by the way, how is their brain just like, doon, doon, doon throughout the day? First ever text too. That's the best part. First time text. First time text. Long time, first time text. First time text. First ever text. Longtime text. First time text. Like I cannot explain to people anymore. We know we're sad. Yeah, nobody hates Canucks. The Canucks more than Canucks.

And we know that when we cheer against the Oilers or against the Leafs or any other Canadian team, we know that makes us sadder. We've embraced the sadness. So when you send in a text like that, it just goes to show that you don't really understand us. Can I also add? We're pathetic. Can I also add?

Embrace the sad. I actually don't think that the Leafs are gonna choke this away. Yes they are. I don't think, I would love to see it. They're gonna do they are. I don't think, I would love to see it. They're gonna do it. As a generational hater. I would love to see it.

Well don't put it out there. Just say it, yeah, they're gonna do it. No, I'm just, I'm being honest. I don't see it. Well lie to yourself. And you know why? I don't, I haven't seen enough from Ottawa. That's the-

I thought Ottawa looked good in the start of the third run. I thought they were fine. The Leafs are in their own heads, man. It'll happen. I thought Ottawa played pretty well last night. Yeah, but I thought Borube actually handled it pretty well last night. And part of his ability to be like,

I don't because he said, I don't feel any pressure. I don't feel anything. And part of it is because he hasn't been around in the past experiences. He's not Sheldon Keefe in this moment. But he also was pretty direct that. I took an ad event. Yeah, he's fine. He's like, I'm chill, I'm good, don't need to

worry about it. And I do wonder if that's going to eventually be the thing that gets this team over them. Cause you've spoke pretty glowingly about how the Borubes handled teams in the past, especially at 2019 Cup run. Yeah, it doesn't like blues. And it gets back to the whole, how you

handle bad things happening. Yeah. Right? Bad things are going to happen on a run. Happened last night. And media is going to say bad things about you. And they're going to say, you know, you're going to see things on social media.

And I really do think, especially with the rise of social media, it's really just about preparing yourself and accepting that that is going to happen. It's like Ray Farrar always brings up, like he hates, he hates the saying, you got to play a full 60 minutes, right? Like, I always text him and I'm like, oh, the Canucks are playing a full 60.

Cause I know it would, it drives him crazy, but there's another team on the ice and it's the playoffs and they're pretty good too. Right? Like Linus Almark who played so well yesterday, it hasn't been perfect for him this season, hasn't been perfect for him in these playoffs, but the guy's one of Vezna. It's like Greener said, like I liked my goalie.

He's one of Vezna. He's a good goalie. And sometimes you're going to have games where the puck goes off the post or the referees make a bad call. And what Barubia is trying to get through is like, that stuff happens. How are you going to deal with it? It's not like that stuff won't happen and you guys are the best team and nothing's ever going to go wrong for you because I believe in you.

Right? I know it's hard. It's not supposed to be easy. Right. Well, I think that's the thing. I think it's a big part of it. It's not supposed to be easy. There are things that are going to go badly for you.

And at the end of the day, for the most part, there are some teams that have kind of romped through the Stanley Cup, but you're going to have moments where you are on the brink. And if one bounce goes the wrong way, maybe you're out. For whatever reason, I was thinking about 1989 the other day. And, uh, I was looking at the, the

playoff bracket in 1989, and that was the year the Flames won the Stanley Cup. They lost six games in the four series. Like they were dominant. Three of those losses came to the Canucks in the first round. Right. They barely escaped that first round.

Right. You look back on that, Smiel scores, you know, all the chances that the Canucks had in overtime, it could have been over, but they handled it and they got through it by cheating. But eventually- Cheating dogs. How many times do you look back on a playoff run, for example, of any team and go like, man, you didn't get that moment right then, it was over for you?

Yeah, no, I get it. You just got to deal with it. I get that moment right then. It was over for you. Yeah, no, I get it. You just got to deal with it. I get that part of it. I absolutely do when it comes to the Leafs. But the issue that Berube is going to have with them is how does he balance the guys? This is the path that the galaxy has chosen for us. Right?

The universe says that if it's not going to be easy, it's not going to be easy. And we're going through that right now, as opposed to what everyone else is thinking, which is, oh, God, it's happening gonna be easy, it's not gonna be easy. And we're going through that right now as opposed to what everyone else is thinking, which is, oh God, it's happening again. Our fate has already been decided. We're the Leafs. We find ways to lose.

We find ways to blow. There's a very fine line between going through the trenches and coming out stronger because you made it through the battle. And then going into the trench and dying and having your season end right there. That's what the Leafs have done historically. It's very difficult to overcome the feelings

and the thoughts. Berube's challenge is he's got to do it with the same cast of characters. Yep. You know, it's like, is the head coach going to be able to extract something out of these guys that Keefe wasn't able to and Babcock wasn't able to? Okay, we're gonna talk to Sat next, but before we talk to Sat, once we come back,

we're going to play some 32 Thoughts from Elliot Friedman on the Rick Taukett situation, and then we can take that conversation and talk about it with Sat. Get you what we learned into the Dunbar-Limer text line at50, Metro Vancouver's trust of choice for contractors and rental workers for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at dunbarlumber.com. You're listening to the Halford and Breff Show on Sportsnet at 650.