Halford & Brough in the Morning - Gary Mason On The Quinn Hughes Trade

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason talk a busy Week 15 for the NFL with Too Deep Zone's Mike Tanier (2:03), plus they get more details on the Quinn Hughes trade with Canucks insider and the Globe & Mail's Gary Mason (27:30). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Out of the hold of Michael Dixon. Myers kick on the way. It is good. Seven o'clock on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford, Braves, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates.

Score a debt freedom hat trick. One, no more interest. Two, much lower payments and three. Financial peace of mind. Visit them online at Sands. That's trustee.com. We are now in our two of the program. Mike Taney, are our NFL insider from the two deep zone.

It's going to join us in just a moment here to kick off Hour 2. Hour 2 is bracked by Jason Hominuk at Jason. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online. at jason.mortgage. You're coming to you live from the Kintech studio. Now is the time to maximize

the benefits of custom orthotics before the year runs out. Visit kintech.net. What a game from Jason Myers yesterday. It's not often you celebrate a kicker on a Monday morning, especially on the Halford & Brough show, especially on the same weekend that Quinn Hughes was traded.

Six field goals. Six! He was their offense. He was the entirety of their offense. That was a gross football game. Despite the ending, which was great, and despite the very heartwarming narrative of Philip Rivers, defying father time, that was a tough watch

for three quarters. Really, three and a half quarters. An actual grandpa. Yes. Yes. You know it wasn't bad. He was fine. He was all right. Yep. He had one slip where he slipped on the logo. It was pretty funny. And he was like, that's an old man going down. That old man

fell down. And we laughed. Okay, we got a lot to get into with Mike. So without further ado, Mike Tanny, our NFL insider from the Two Deep Zone joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on SportsNet 650. Good morning, Michael. How are you? I earlier today was putting salt down on the ice

on my front driveway, and I slipped and fell, and I kind of pulled a Philip Rivers out there on my front yard, and now I'm wondering if I could cover the spread against the Seahawks. How much attention did you pay to yesterday's game? Because it was a, I mean, the afternoon slate was loaded. There were five very good games. They all kicked off at the same time.

but that one was very intriguing for a myriad of reasons. How much attention did you pay to it? I stayed up late and watched the replay on NFL Plus, so I am pretty well versed in the game. I got to ask how shocked were you to see, maybe not necessarily what Rivers did, but how the Colts were able to game plan, scheme, hang in as 14-point dogs.

And I think they only trailed in that game for a minute and 58 seconds. I mean, it was a gutsy performance. It was a good performance. I thought it said more maybe about Shane Steichen and the coaching that it did about Rivers, but still a very interesting game from the Colts. Shane Stuyken and the coaching, Jonathan Taylor just manufacturing yardage when the Seahawks knew they were going to run the ball a million times. And Taylor, it was only 3.5 yards per carry, but it always seemed to be, oh, it's only second

and five, so they can't really bliss seeing the defensive performance by the Colts against the Seahawks. So Rivers did what I thought he was going to do. He stood motionless in the pocket, handed off as often as possible, and mostly through swing passes. It was that the Seahawks really couldn't get pressure, and the Seahawks couldn't get anything going offensively, particularly in the first half. And they let themselves just get hammered in the field position in battle, because particularly in the first half, it was the story of, it seemed like the Seahawks were always on the 10-yard line and then taking a sack. and then giving the close the ball back, like closer to midfield. And that's the way you lose to, you know, a game manager quarterback in one of these weird situations.

I'm a little worried about the Seahawks running game. I'm worried about their offense as a whole. And we've talked about whether Sam Darnold can be that guy, and he's going to get a chance on Thursday against the Rams to make up for his performance the last time the Seahawks played the Rams for interceptions. but my worry is it's spread out a little bit which is weird because they've won four in a row

but we're nitpicking now because I want them to win this division and I want them to win on Thursday and they're not getting much from the running game if you look at where they're ranked statistically they're near the bottom in terms of average per carry yeah you know the myth for like much of the season were that the Seahawks had a really, really good running game.

It's decent. It's good when you have a lead and you're salting it out, takes care of that. But, you know, Kenneth Walker, he's kind of okay. He's kind of inconsistent in terms of whether or not he hits the hole or bounces everything outside. Charbonnet, this season's kind of been just a guy. So that's a problem. The Seahawks are team that loves to run the ball, wants to run the ball, and are just kind of sort of okay with it.

I couple that with the, you know, there's nobody but Jackson Smith and Jigba. And now it's kind of really showing there is nothing but Jackson Smith and Jigba. Any other touch for anybody else, including Cooper Cup, has to be very carefully schemed up for them. And you're kind of running to the edge of what Clint Kubiak can do with the guys he has, including Sam Darnold, to confuse opponents, to create opportunities because everything's been seen, opponents know who they can shut down easily, and it's going to make things a little tougher when you start.

facing teams that don't have, you know, 37 and older year old quarterback, which is what it's been for the last two weeks. I want to turn our attention here to the Kansas City Chiefs because that was probably the biggest story from Sunday. On a day where, as you pointed out in the walkthrough, I think 13 to 14 NFL games on Sunday have playoff implications. So it was a day where there were tons of storylines, but Kansas City getting eliminated, not going to the playoffs for the first time in 10 years.

28 days ago, going into week 11, multiple sports books had them still as the Super Bowl favorite. And 28 days later, they're now out and their quarterback Patrick Mahomes is lost to a torn ACL. The two-part question, what happens now for the Chiefs? Is the Super Bowl window closed now for the Chiefs? Well, 28 days later, you make it sound like a zombie apocalypse,

and I love it. I wish I led with that now because that's beautiful. It's perfect. The Super Bowl window is not closed. Obviously for this year is closed. They're eliminated. For 2026, you start to have the question now, okay, Patrick Mahomes suffered an ACL tear. So that's going to eliminate a lot of his off season.

He's going to be rehabbing. It might jeopardize him. It will very well jeopardize him for week one of next year. So you really have to look at the chiefs and say, it is soft retooling situation. It is Travis Kelsey. Take a look at your personal life. and see if you want to go in another direction time. It's Chris Jones, you've kind of sort of been like a combination ring chaser

and give me one more year of a lot of money guy. Do you want to retire? Do you want to try and chase this ring somewhere like Detroit instead for a change of scenery? All of those questions come up. I don't think that there's a closed window. I think that there's like a little camel hump right now. And we saw teams like Tom Brady's Patriots do it where there was a year or two where they had to step back and retool.

I think the chiefs have entered that part of that. their of their history with this injury and with this elimination. Was the Buffalo win and that massive comeback win over New England yesterday? Was it symbolic that it happened on a day where the Kansas City Chiefs were eliminated from playoff contention? I couldn't help but think that. Like to the point where it's like I could picture them like looking at the scoreboard on their phones or you know, looking up like, guys, we have a chance.

We have a chance. It didn't actually play off that way. But like I could almost imagine it being like that. This is the opportunity. and that's what I wrote about in walkthrough. You don't have to slay the dragon. Josh Allen does not have to go to Arrowhead or doesn't have to host Patrick Mahomes this year.

Neither does Lamar Jackson if they can crawl back into it. Neither does some upstart team. You name your favorite upstart team, Jacksonville, Jaguars, Denver Broncos, Chargers. They all have this chance now. We'll see who makes the most of it. The thing about the bills, I was ready to bury them at halftime.

And then I remembered that last week against the Bengals, I was ready to bury them at halftime. and there have been like four times this year or I was ready to bury them at a half time. The bills are the best second half team in the world. They are, they play like they are going to run away to the championship in the second half every week. If they can just start doing that for the whole game,

if they can just start showing up at 1 o'clock instead of showing up at about 2.45 every week, they're going to be the team to beat. They should be able to coast to the Super Bowl. That's on them because you see every week they have the pieces in place to do that. How bad was Green Bay's weekend? Oh, God, almighty.

Sorry. There was a point there where they had a two-score lead against the Broncos, and the Broncos offense was doing what the Broncos offense does, which is kind of puttering along. And the Packers were moving right down the field, then settling for field goal, which is kind of what the Packers do too often. And then you lose Micah Parsons, and then you lose Christian Watson. And there is no sugar-coding this.

The best thing I can say, well, first I'm going to start with this. Packers have to visit the Bears on Saturday night. That's going to be a challenge. Bears almost beat them two weeks ago. Bears are trying to sell first place. Then the Packers have to host the Ravens. The Ravens have their backs to the law. The Ravens are playing better football.

These are real problems. They've got to do this without Parsons, almost certainly without Watson. Then you get the Vikings at the end of the year. The Vikings are trying to prove something. McCarthy's playing better. Best thing I can say about the Packers is if they wind up in the wildcard pool, they could wind up traveling to, Tampa Bay. They could wind up traveling to

Carolina. Yeah, the Panthers beat them, but come on. They could wind up traveling. The Philly and the Eagles had a big win, but you know how vulnerable they are. The Packers have to look at these things for their silver lining right now. Maybe we face one of those vulnerable weak division champions as a wild card. We get the win and we build

momentum. But that's sugarcoding. This is an uphill battle for the Packers. Okay, what happened in the Browns game where the coach, Kevin Stefansky, he gave Shadur Sanders the wrong wristband to start the game. I don't think this is going to help the conspiracies that the Browns are out to get Shradur Sanders.

I don't, I can't even, this is a degree which I'm not sure I can even verify. This is a true thing that happened. Does Stefanski himself admit to that? Because I haven't seen the story come across yet. I'm reading it in the New York Post. So, you know. Okay. Maybe.

We do a laugh. The Post is not the National Inquirer. They're not there yet. They have some very good... We've got some good writers there who are old colleagues of mine. Sure, yeah, I don't believe that. That's the kind of thing that you fix pretty quickly, right? Shador looks at the wristband and says,

hey, this is the wrong wristband. This has like the Konami code for the old street fighter, his cheat codes. This is the wrong thing. I must have gotten Kyler Murray's by mistake, and you go back and you fix it. Whatever is whatever. The whole Shador thing,

again, he's a third-string quarterback, playing with a bunch of rookies on a bad team. He has flashes now and then. It was a miserable, miserable game yesterday. He did nothing right until, like, late in the game when it was garbage time. And, like, you're right, the Shador conspiracy theories. It reminds me of Tim Tebow 15 years ago. The fan base is out there. They're going to claim this.

They're going to say X, Y, Z, they'll probably be saying it 10 years after Sanders is gone. I'm not seeing anything to suggest that Sanders is anything but a guy who maybe should hang around the league of some kind of NFL backup. We're speaking to Mike Taney, our NFL Insider from the Too Deep Zone here on the Halford and Breft Show on Sportsnet 650.

I watched it with great detail yesterday while the Seahawks game was going on. The offensive explosion that was the Los Angeles Rams and Detroit Lions game, how much concern should there be organizationally in Detroit about what they did yesterday?

They're fighting for their playoff lives. They give up a season high, 41 points in doing so. And if you look at it now, there are chances to make the playoffs. I think this is independent of what of the other results are on the board, fell all the way to 34%. How concerns should the Lions be right now? Yeah, the big problem is every year they get further away from the Super Bowl. It feels like it. Yeah. They went from the NFC championship game. I was like, oh, a couple fourth downs and then we would have been in the Super Bowl. Then they go

to, oh, we go to the playoffs, but man, the commander surprised us. Now we're at the, it's week 14, and we're facing the Rams, and this could be our statement game, and we can't make a statement, and it wasn't really as close as to score by the end. From a general manager standpoint from Brad Holmes, you've got to ask, yes, their defense has had lots of injuries, why wasn't there more of an effort to bring in some extra guys in the offseason, maybe at the trade deadline as well, to give Aden Hutchinson some help, to get an extra body maybe somewhere in the secondary. That was evident yesterday. Dan Campbell's side of the ball, his play calling, he's seen in the last couple of weeks,

trick plays. There was a sequence when they got to the 25-yard line and started handling off and settled for a field goal yesterday. I don't know what that's about. The fourth ground, the fourth down aggressiveness goes from one thing to another every week and it never seems to be the right answer. And then you have to look at Jared Gough and say, really, have we seen the best of this? Here's a guy who's surrounded by pro bowlers. You got James and Williams, got Jamon Ross St. Brown having a huge game. Yeah, they're banged up on the offensive line, but the pro ball alignment. Most of them are still out there. and there's a little bit of pressure, and he falls apart in the second half.

It's all existential questions, and I'm not saying get rid of Campbell, that's crazy. Get rid of Holmes. That doesn't sound right. Get rid of goff. There's no solution that, like, that's out there that's easy. But that makes it worse because then it's like, well, if there are no solutions, what is this team going to do to turn the corner and get back to where they look like they were going to be two years ago? Let's look ahead a little bit to this Rams Seahawks game on Thursday.

How big a deal is it for the Rams that they could be without Devon's? Monty Adams. It is a big deal. We'll have to monitor that, though. I know he left the game with a hamstring injury. He's been battling hamstring injuries all season. That said, on a Thursday nighter, that might be a quick turnaround. The thing they like to do, obviously, Pook is the problem, and Pook is fine.

He had cramps, but he was okay. They love to go three tight ends, and then they use that to create all these sort of mismatches in the middle and run the ball, and that's one of the things the C-Ox are going to have to look at on Thursday night. speaking to Mike Tan here, our NFL insider from the two deep zone here on the Halford & Brough show on SportsNet 650. I feel like we do need to talk about the Denver Broncos at some point during this hit, given it a lot.

They're just so boring. They are good, though. They're incredibly good. That was a very good performance from Bo Nix on the weekend. I believe you finished 23 of 30 for 303 yards. More touchdown passes than incompletions in the first half. Yes. Are they the team to beat in the AFC?

Or that's still going to be Buffalo until they actually go and beat the bills in the playoffs? It's going to be the bills until proven otherwise. But the Broncos are getting better when they're supposed to be getting better. That's a very big deal. The offense has been less boring the last three weeks. Bow-Nicks has been better. Instead of just waiting and making a big play with two minutes left, Now he's, like, making a few big plays during the course of the game.

There's stuff that the Broncos are doing on offense that people don't notice. Their sack rate is incredibly low. They didn't sack. The Packers could not sack Bo Nix yesterday. Nix has taken only 19 sacks. Broncos' offensive line is very, very good. Nix moves around pretty well. There's these little advantages they have that help their defense.

And, you know, I think I wrote it in my walkthrough. If yesterday's Bo Nix and the Broncos' offense can be, paired with the like October-November Broncos defense, that's a Super Bowl team. They have to get both albums together, but if that's what's starting to happen, then the Broncos really are better than their reputation of what we thought they might have been like three months ago. Mike, excellent breakdowns, as always. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

We appreciate it. Enjoy Monday night football. We'll do this again next Monday. Absolutely. Take care and enjoy your week. Thanks, buddy. That's Mike Tanier, our NFL Insider. Presentation of the Clayton Public House here on the Halford-enbruff show on Sportsnet,

650. Okay, let's get back to the Dunbar Lumber text line. We've got a few minutes here to read some of your texts about our first hour and a lot of it was around the Quinn Hughes trade and what comes next for the Vancouver Canucks. Hannah texted in, I know a lot of people have already expressed this sentiment.

But I think Quinn Hughes' legacy in Vancouver will ultimately be that of a phenomenally talented player but not of a great captain. I've seen this debate raging on the socials. And I actually, I think it's an interesting one. You know how we say two things can be true at the same time? I think that very much applies to this situation. Well, people aren't perfect.

No. But, you know, the way that Quinn went out, I don't think helps his legacy. There are a couple games where he just, I mean, he gave up on plays. And that doesn't look good. And he was a little bit mopey and not captain-like. But then you can also say, well, yeah, I get it.

He was frustrated, right? And we both joked and we weren't really joking that if we were in that position, people might have wondered about our character. It is very tough to be a really good NHL captain. That's a great point. There aren't many of them. There really aren't many of them because the best ones are, number one, really good players. Let's just describe Sidney Crosby.

really good players really good leaders and consistent in that that's the tough thing the consistency of doing it day after day whether or not things are good you've got all sorts of things

happening in your private life that you've got to deal with and you've still got to come in every day and be a leader and you look back at what the sedans provided for For the Canucks culture, you know, Henrik and Daniel, they were both like captains, essentially.

You know, they were really good players. And they set a great example because they were always working so hard. And they were good people. And they were super competitive. Super competitive. That's something that doesn't get appreciated about them, just how competitive they were.

So the captaincy thing is really interesting because if you look at the big four sports in North America, there's not really that level of responsibility put on any player with the designation. Like there are captains in other sports, but it doesn't have the same... Half the time we don't even know who they are. Right? It doesn't have the same clout or gravita, as I like to call it. Gravitas.

Anyway, I think the interesting thing here, though, is that if you want to look at it in a different direction, hockey's probably the one sport where the single individual player can't dictate a game like basketball or like football or like baseball. Like, it's the ultimate team game, yet there's this role that forged out where the captain is responsible for so many things, so many things. I think that's what makes it such a difficult role to fill.

Like, when we go back and look at Beau Horvats' captaincy, we can say that he was a fine captain. He checked all the boxes, but there were just something missing? Yeah. And when you have this indefinable characteristic or trait, you could almost say like, Wow, what a difficult job to fill

where you don't even know what it is that you're missing. People just know that you're missing it. Don't you think the consistency is the hardest thing? I think all of it's the hardest thing. Yeah. Because you have to, here's the thing. Day after days. You have to be an elite.

What if you have a bad day? In the modern NHL, you have to be an elite player, right? That kind of goes without saying to be a captain. Or a good player at the very least. I mean, who's the captain in Anaheim, Racko Gutus? That's what I'm saying? Like, what do we say about him? You're the worst captain, the worst player that's a captain in the NHL.

I mean, I like Goudis, but whatever, we're not going to go have that debate again. Lowry in Winnipeg's another way. And the debate there often is, can a guy who's your third C be a captain? Sure. So you kind of need to be a high level player. You need to be a high character individual. You need to be able to deal well with the media because you're the guy that's got to go out there after every game. There's all these.

And it's annoying. And you've got to do it every day, which gets me back to the consistency part. Yeah. Because it's easy to go pick a few scrums where. Quinn didn't look happy or, you know, pick a couple of players on the ice. Now put yourself in his shoes and you're super frustrated with the team in its direction. And you're probably frustrated with some of your teammates. Sure.

Let's be honest. I would agree. Okay? That happens. Yep. Right? Anyone who's played sports. Anyone who's played hockey with me, very frustrated with me, right?

Sure. It just, it just happens. Try working with him. Exactly. But even on this show, consistency is hard. Sometimes I come in and believe it or not, not in a great mood, you know? It's not hard for me. It's not hard for you.

Steady Eddie over there. I'm always consistent. You're consistent. Bring it every day. Constantly in the same mood. Constantly in the zone. And just the perfect frame of mind every time. Yep.

You just walk in those doors and you're like, this is what I do. Yep. Yeah. Keep you grounded. Exactly. So Jay texted in. And this is directly at your point about being consistent. He said, captaincy is defined by how you act when things are bad, not how you act when things are good.

And that goes for a lot of different things in life. Like, how are you in the most difficult times? How do you react when there's adversity? And I think what we saw, especially over the last few weeks and months of his captaincy, is that Hughes might grow into that one day. He might look back and say, like, wow, if I'm going to be the leader of another team, I'm going to need to navigate. the down times better because they're inevitable. They're always going to happen. And I didn't do a great job of it in Vancouver,

especially at the end. And even though it was a prelude to me leaving and sort of part of the orchestration of the trade out of town, I was still the captain. He was still the captain on Thursday night his last game when they played the Buffalo Sabres. So you're fulfilling those duties

regardless of what the future has in store. And like you said, the great ones. And I think the Sadeen example was probably the best one of a guy who could ride the highs and the lows and keep the consistency that you're talking about. So a lot of people texting in. So who's going to be the next captain? I don't see a candidate here.

No. VanderCame. Or him. Yeah. I don't see a candidate, but maybe you know. I mean, I don't think, well, I don't think PD's going to wear the sea. Well, not this year. Maybe Myers next year?

I don't think this should be in any rush to name a captain. I don't even know if Myers are going to be on the team next season. That's true. I think a team this far in flux with what we're going to be in a couple of years. I don't think you should put it on anybody. Like, is Brock going to be a captain? Is Garland going to be a captain? I just don't see it.

I mean, Garland, he's a good player, but I think the connects need to, need to, you know, I want to see where they are after the draft and how we feel about this. I do think they have to have a conversation about Pedersen and what they think of them. And people can say, well, you just keep them on the team and, you know, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he is what he is. I don't think it works like that. I think there's a hierarchy among players and whether it gets acknowledged or not, um, your contract is a big part of, of the hierarchy. And do you want, this is a question. This is an open-ended question.

do you want Elias Pedersen setting the tone for your younger players? I don't know what his work habits are right now but it's quite rare that a team has come out and said he needs to practice harder and that sort of thing

and he needs to be more dedicated to hockey this culture whether Patrick Galvin believes it or not from the outside looking in looks broken the culture looks broken to me okay this segment of the show was brought to you by the Duick Auto Group. Find out why nobody beats a Duick deal and why nobody has

since 1926. Visit them online at the Duick Auto Group.com. Visit them in person at Duick GM on Marine Drive, Duick Downtown, and Duick in Richmond. A reminder in five minutes time, we're going to be giving away a $250 gift card to Golf Town. That's right. Golf Town, just in time for the holidays. Be caller number five at 7.30 this morning, 604, 280, 0.650. That number again. 604-280-0-650. Caller number five in five minutes time right at 7.30 will win a $250 gift card to Golf Town. Coming up next, Gary Mason from the Globe and Mail is going to join us. He who writes the articles

before the trades, Gary Mason, is going to join us next on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Strance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand. through your favorite podcast app. 7.32 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford, Brubb, Sportsnet, 650.

Halford and Brub of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Scory, Debt Freedom, Hattrick, one, no more interest, two much lower payments and three financial peace of mind. This is them online at Sange dash trustee.com. Still in hour two of the program, we're at the midway point of the show. Gary Mason from Globe Mail is going to join us in just a moment here. Hour two of this program is brought to by Jason Homonick at Jason.

dot mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around and find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at Jason.com. Mortgage. So the phone lines we go. Our next guest, as mentioned, courtesy of the Globe and Mail. Gary Mason joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Gary. How are you? Good morning, fellas. So the Quinn Hughes trade, is it fair to suggest that you might have seen that one coming? Yeah, I think so. yeah no I mean there was no question that we were building towards this moment I mean you could you could you could tell something was up at the beginning of the year

and then you know we saw a version of Quinn used that we hadn't recognized before on the ice and even off the ice too a more sullen version a more uninspired version on the ice at times. So I think, I mean, all the body language suggested that, you know, he'd kind of had enough and it was time to move on. And that's indeed what happened. Do you think he would have been gone regardless when he had the opportunity or if the Canucks were in a better place, do you think he would have been willing to sign an extension? You know, I really thought a lot about that question. And here's where I, here's where I land on it. I think if the Canucks were a team right now that the league was talking about,

like if it was a top team in the league and it was a team that still had like a bit of a runway ahead of it, like, you know, it was still young enough, like the core group was mid-20s and you could see, you know, a runway of, you know, four or five years. Then I honestly don't think we'd be talking about this. Having said that, having said that, you know, Quinn is a very American player. I mean, he loves everything about the states. And I think, you know, I think, you know, often he could cast his eye down there and see what his brothers were doing and what they were capable of doing living in the states.

and living in that area in particular and probably was quite envious and, you know, it made it even worse, you know, being stuck here on a team that was going nowhere after a season that devolved into something, you know,

that he couldn't probably have imagined in his worst dreams. You know, going through that whole debacle with J.T. Miller and Peterson, I mean, you know, for a young captain to be thrust into that situation. It must have been just gut-wrenching for him, you know.

And so that took a lot out of them. And of course, so my personal theory is, and I bet you I'm right, that he knew at the end of last season he wasn't resigning. Yeah. And I think Tocott probably had conversations with him. And Tockeet knew he wasn't coming back, which made his decision to move on. you know, a lot easier.

If not, it was the impetus to move on. I bet you if Quinn Hughes was committed here for the long-term future, I bet you Rick Tocke would still be here. So I think there's a connection there. So, yeah, I just think, I just think, you know, there's a confluence of factors that have, you know, play a role in what ultimately happened here. With all the bad things that have happened to the Canucks in the last year or two,

why is there still confidence from ownership in Jim Rutherford and the management team? Well, I mean, I think probably because of what we just witnessed. I mean, I think generally, you know, from my reading, everyone in the hockey world thinks that Jim Rutherford, you know, hit a home run in terms of what he got in return for Quinn Hughes. I mean, for somebody who was in a pretty crappy situation, having to, you know, give up his best player and one of the best players in the league, he did pretty damn well in terms of the return.

And Z. Bouillon is obviously the key. And some people that I've talked to or some people that have sent me emails suggest the upside that this kid has is, is significant. And so I think, you know, well, you don't know exactly how this plays out, you know. I mean, and we don't know in a couple of years. I mean, if the Minnesota Wilde lose Quinn Hughes in two years and they don't win a Stanley Cup, and the Canucks are building into a contender around Bouillon and Rossi and, you know, The kid that they got in Seattle, you know, the center, Braden Coots.

And, you know, and whoever else they might get in this draft, unless they blow it and start playing well right now, which would be terrible. But, you know, so, well, I, so I think that, you know, I think even though you can look at things in sort of in pieces, you know, and say, oh, you know, you blew that. blew that. But I think that Jim Rutherford still is a really highly respected person in this league. And I think he's still kind of, and Patrick Alvin is too. I mean, so I don't know who you're going to go out, you know, like, you know, when amid this whole discussion, you know, I could, you know, you could see things like maybe they should bring Brendan Shanahan in. Like, come on. Like, this is ridiculous.

I mean, you're going to, I wouldn't, I wouldn't make that trade any day. I think, anyway, I just think that Aquilini, you know, has always had faith in Rutherford, and I think he remains competent in him. And so we'll see, we'll see how this plays out. I know that Rutherford is a pretty stubborn guy, and he wants to see this thing through. You know, as I said in, I think one of my calls recently, you know, he may not be here when the Canucks to understand the cup, but he could certainly play a role in setting them up to

win one, you know, depending on what he does in the next year or two. I like, maybe he's motivated by revenge to get back to all for all his critics. And I like that. Gary, we were chatting about this, or

texting about this. We are both huge Seattle Seahawks fans. Yeah. And it looked a few years ago like the Seahawks had lost their I think Pete Carroll lost the room What do you think

And now look at them I mean they're they're Super Bowl contenders They really are What do you think the Canucks could learn from the Seahawks Well I think What happened there was They

Got a new coach Who You know helped establish an identity With the team And the identity became their defense Which is what they were known for, you know, the Legion of Boom Days, you know, Seattle's identity was their defense.

And the whole thing about the defense was the culture was this culture of accountability. You know, you had to be accountable for what you did. And if you screwed up, you had to, you were held accountable by your teammates. I mean, and that was, that was a huge part of the culture, the winning culture, Seattle built during its heyday, and I really believe that that's what's happening now. I think that there is an intense culture of responsibility and accountability that the Seahawks have built up, you know, thanks to certain veterans, high integrity veterans like Jaron Reed, Leonard Williams. Those are the guys that, you know, have the respect of the room and have, you know,

the young guys are looking up to and they listen to. So that's why I think with a young team that, you know, the connects are going to have again, it's so important to have high value individuals in the locker, high integrity individuals in the locker room who the young guys are going to listen to, look up to, learn from. And, you know, Beau Horvath had the Sadiens. I mean, you couldn't get two more high quality,

too high, more high integrity individuals than the Sadiens, who really showed him what it meant to be accountable after losses, you know, especially for the captain. And, you know, you had to stand there and you, you didn't sulk, you didn't, you know, whisper words. You stood there and answered questions in full sentences, you know, whether you like the questions or not. And, you know, for all his incredible, you know,

abilities on the ice, I thought at times that Quinn failed that test. I thought he showed his youth and immaturity sometimes. He just didn't seem like he wanted to be there answering those questions and didn't really, I didn't think he liked the role very often. and maybe it wasn't fair, you know, and maybe it wasn't fair, you know, to put them in that position. I don't know. That's why I think it's really, really important that the Canucks get this room right and they get the culture right because this is, you know, culture can destroy locker rooms. It can destroy teams if you don't have the right culture.

And if you have bad actors in that dressing room that are not reflective of the culture and the identity that you want as a hockey team, then it'll eat away and it will have an impact. So I think the Canucks have to look long and hard. And I think they do have a lot of high integrity. Tyler Myers is a great guy. Connor Garland, you know, those are the kind of people, Philip Ronick. You know, those are, you know, NHL veterans who, you know, know, know how to be professional.

I'm not sure, personally speaking, Avander Kane fits the mold of somebody I want my young players learning from or looking to as an example of the kind of identity or culture you want in the dressing room. So I hope the Canucks look at that and take a look at who these kids are going to be learning from. Do you think they have, I mean, Evander Kane's an easy one because he's a pending UFA and he's not going to be back anyway. Yeah. Do you think they'll look at Pedersen and whether or not he demonstrates the values

and the habits that he wants the young players learning from? He's the highest paid player on the team right now. Yeah, I think Petterson, I think that that is the big question mark left on this team is, you know, his role and identity. I mean, he seemed to play at the beginning of the season, you know, in early going with a lot of, you know, renewed interest in the game, renewed bigger, blocking shots, winning face off. I mean, there's some value there.

I mean, he hasn't certainly played to the level of his salary. But, you know, I just not sure what you can do with him. I mean, do you move him and retain some of his salary? I don't know. I don't think the Canucks are prepared to even think about that right now, you know. No, I mean, they do have a math thing. Yeah, maybe. I think they've got to give him the full season, see how he responds to, you know,

kind of being the centerpiece now in some respect that this team, now the Quinn Hughes is gone. I mean, there's going to be even more focus on him. I don't know whether he's going to like that or not, you know, whether he's going to respond to it well or not. But, but, you know, the other thing is, you know, we kind of joke about it, but you don't want this team to start winning a bunch of games. I mean, and you do have some assets that you would think the Canucks are still going to be dangling. You know, Keeper Sherwood, maybe Ted or Teddy Bluger.

Keeper Sherwood would seem to have maybe the most potential to get something back. and return of some significant value. I don't know whether you'd even entertain trading someone at Connor Garland just because, you mean, you still have to have some pieces around, some people who are good, solid pros that you want in the dressing room. Brock Besser, I mean, is there any interest in Besser? Would you even think about moving him? I don't know.

You know, there's a lot of questions here. And, I mean, I don't think you also want a team that's just all 21 and 22-year-olds and 23-year-olds. I mean, you have to have some adults in the room. How long do you think... I'm not going to ask you how long do you think it's going to take for the Canucks to return to a playoff team or even Stanley Cup contender,

but how long do you think this management group and ownership is expecting it to take? That's a really good question. I mean, I think that you probably... And I'm not saying Jim Rutherford's going to be here, for, you know, three or four more years. I mean, the guy's going to be 77 in January. So, I mean, but, you know, he's in good shape.

And, you know, I think the job invigorates him, even at the same time, it probably ages him, too. I think he loves it, though. I think he loves it, though. I think he loves it. Yeah, I think it probably keeps him younger. I don't know. Like, I think they have quieted the noise around the team right now for,

for the foreseeable future, I think people are going to give them the benefit of the doubt that, you know, I think that they, if they had, let's put it this way, they had completely bombed on this trade and the universal reaction was, oh my God, what did you just do? It would be completely different. We might be having a different conversation this morning about Rutherford and Alvine. I think that they certainly at least have bought themselves some time, you know, this year and probably next year to see what, you know, see what they can build, you know, I think, you know, they, I would say like two years, we're, I think we'll know in two years what they have, you know, a big, a big question will be, a big factor will be what they get in this, in this next draft. Is it going to be like a top three player? That, you know, that has a huge impact on, on the future of an organization, like massive. So I don't think we, we can answer that question. Yeah. But I, I would say like two to three years, they have to have a team that people see. you know, can see the broad outlines of a team that can contend, if not in, like, in a year or two down the road from that, you know, very soon after, I think, you know, if they're still fumbling around in two years and, you know, certain players haven't panned out or, you know, Bouillon doesn't want to be here. Well, then you've got, you've got bigger problems. He is the one that writes the articles before the trades. Gary, thank you for doing this today. We really appreciate it.

Enjoy the holidays. This was a lot of fun. Okay, Pell. Enjoy, too. Thanks very much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. That's Gary Mason from the Globe and Mail here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sports

9, 650. You had a good question here from Dylan, and maybe we should spend a few minutes on this. Let's do it. I don't even know what the question is. I'd really like to hear you guys discuss Minnesota's center depth. It's probably worse than Vancouver's. They arguably have the best blue line in the league, but are not a contender without a 1C. I'm actually quite surprised that Garon made that trade,

especially knowing that Hughes is most likely a one-and-a-half season rental. I mean, Minnesota has had issues down the middle for the entirety of their franchise pretty much. I like Joel Erickson-Eck as a player. I think he's a good player. Ryan Hartman, bottom six guy. He's a guy. But yeah, they're missing a center in... Who's there in a one-see?

Is it Danila You're-ov? I mean, according to Daily Faceoff, it is. I'm-ov, Yurov. Yeah. Nico Sturms, their other center. So yeah, they, absolutely, they're thin down the middle. But if you look at that blue line, um, it's incredible. Now the avs are probably going to have to come up against the Colorado avalanche or the wild.

We're going to have to come up against the Colorado avalanche. And, uh, I mean, they might start with Dallas, might go Dallas, Colorado are the first two rounds. Then maybe, I don't know. Vegas or Edmonton, it is, it is a gamble. As a hockey fan, as an NHL fan, I love the gamble because I'm actually interested in watching the Minnesota wild now. I'm now interested in, in their narrative, you know, also because I'm a Canucks fan. I want to see how Quinn Hughes does.

You watch them against Boston the other day, they looked pretty good. They had the energy of a team that just made a blockbuster deal. Yeah, they did. And Quinn scored a goal, maybe a little bit of a lucky goal, but You know, it was, it was a day. It was a stinker. It was a stinker for the goal, yeah. It was a big day in Minnesota and for wild fans,

and you could feel the excitement in the building. And that's part of the reason they did it. Like, it's business, too. Yeah. It's selling tickets. It's selling interest in the team, and that's what you have to do. And frankly, that's going to be one of the challenges for the Canucks.

Like, how do you sell this team now? Because they're going to have to do it. And people will say, well, you guys wanted to rebuild and this is it, right? And this is why maybe they don't want to rebuild if you're struggling to find reasons to come out and watch this team. Because for a lot of, and a lot of people that listen to sports radio all day, they're hardcore. They know the line combinations. 95% of people that are going to the games, they just want to be entertained. I don't know about that percentage, but they want to be entertained.

and they want to be like, who should I watch today? I'd say at least 50%. My kid over here is a big Quinn Hughes fan. He's not playing anymore. So what are we going to be excited about? From that perspective, I know this is a Vancouver Canucks Sports Talk radio-centric station, but this is a far more interesting deal for Minnesota

because the stakes are so high. They're massive. So here's what we're looking at. A risk-averse person, grounded in logic, I would say, would be like, you are insane, Bill Guerin for making this move. You are in a division with two teams that, let's be frank, are better than you. And you have a very limited window in which to win with Quinn Hughes. Yeah. Because he's just as- They might be able to re-sign him.

He's just as close to free agency now as he was with the Canucks time-wise. So you've given yourself a small window. and in a window where you've got a very determined looking Colorado team and a Dallas team that's a perennial Western Conference finalist in your division at the same time

it's pretty awesome what they did Minnesota is deep is stacked now though It's pretty awesome If you're a wild fan do you ride the highs and lows and the risk and the danger and say this is fun

this is actually way more interesting The season just got a whole lot more compelling. Someone pointed out this morning in the Dunbar Limer text message in Baskin, the NHL must have tweeted out 25 times yesterday from its social media account about the Minnesota Wild. Like, when have you ever been this relevant? When have you ever been this exciting? When have you been the talk of the league? The league needs more player movement like this.

It really does. I mean, it was a great thing. Do you think they could do something? They could negotiate something about against no move clauses or no trade? Because one of the, if you're talking about an entertainment perspective, one of the great things about Quinn Hughes is that he had no trade protection. Yep. Because he wasn't eligible for it when he signed the contract.

So the Canucks could send him anywhere. Now they did work with Quinn and his agent. Pat. Pat Brasson. He was a beast, according to Quinn Hughes. Such a weird thing to say. Well, you probably, you know, like, you can throw your weight around as a super agent. Someone texted them in there, like, do you think we should read more into that?

And I'm like, no, that's a hockey guy speaking hockey jargon, trying to explain like a real life thing. Yeah. He would either are going to call him a beast or a wagon or like he made a sick trade. But I think a lot of people might be surprised by the fact that the agent was involved because Queen had zero no, zero trade protection, right? So why was the agent involved? Why did they just send him to the best bidder? And it's like, well, you want to work like that. to keep relationships with guys

Quinn should have let it hang a bit longer. I think she said, my good friend Patrick Brisson I'd like to thank him. All right. Well, the wild was the best better too, though, remember. We'll never know.

We'll never know, buddy. There was a lot of, there's a lot of... I'll say this. They give up the next Quinn Hughes. Bill Garin's first salvo made a mark that nobody else's did. That is without question. I think, and you know what?

If you're talking about, there has been some people pushing back, in the Dunbar Lumber text message in basket about how could you possibly take someone's first offer? How did you not grind them down? Sometimes in a negotiation, sometimes putting forth that big

first demonstrative offer is a sign that this is one, we're serious, but two, this is it. Like, we're not, let's get this done. This is a good offer. I know it's a good offer. More importantly, you know it's a good offer. And you don't want to lose the deal.

Right. You don't want to, you don't want to, You don't know, Bill Garron could be like, yeah, you know what? Ticking time bomb deal, right? Like, this thing expires and we'll move on somewhere else. Okay. Sat's going to join us next on the Halforda Brof show on Sportsnet, 650.