Halford & Brough in the Morning - Have Jays Or Mariners Fans Suffered More?

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

In hour two, guest hosts Jamie Dodd & Israel Fehr talk the latest baseball & movie news with MLB Network and Cinephile Podcast's Adnan Virk (1:55), plus they discuss the future of Mark Shapiro and the Blue Jays w/ Sportsnet Jays reporter Ben Nicholson-Smith (28:38). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's time to chat with Adnan It's Adnan Berkey's on the show We're gonna talk some baseball And take a trip to the silver screen That's right, it's time for Redman Yes, and then Berkey joins us now We'll head out to

the ball game And talk about all the films he's seen Welcome back to Halford & Brough Sportsnet 650. Jamie Dodd, Israel Thayer here. Halford & Brough brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. This hour of Halford & Brough is brought to you by Primetime Craft Beer, meticulously brewed

for quality and taste. Primetime Craft Beer is full flavor without compromise. At a liquor store near you or visit the brewery to see how it's made. Of course, we're coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google

reviews. Sore feet, what are you waiting for? We're keeping one eye on the Olympics here. Maude Charon, of course, one of the Canadian flag bearers at the opening ceremonies, trying to defend her gold medal in weightlifting. She's currently in second place with a lift of

106 kilos. The leader has 107. So, Maude Charon in position to at least be on the podium and potentially defend her gold medal as well. We'll talk more Olympics, but coming up right now, joining us from Major League Baseball Network and the Cinephile Podcast, he is Adnan Virk. Adnan,

thanks for doing this. How are you? Of course, Jamie. Good to be with you guys. How are things? Things are good. Yeah, as I said, we're keeping one eye on the Olympics here. It's nice to have stuff going on live during the morning show. So that's fun. And lots going on in Major League Baseball as well. The news breaking just about 10 minutes ago after they broke their epic losing streak and won a game. Then they lost another one. But the White Sox have dismissed Pedro Grifo.

So unexpected move, obviously, right? With how this season has gone for the White Sox. But what do you just make of where this team is right now as a franchise, the losing streak, all of it and the direction they're headed in? Well, first off, with regards to Grifo, I don't know if you guys saw the clip, Ozzie Guillen, my old ESPN colleague and, of course, World Series winning manager,

had his great moments with the White Sox when they won. Also, probably his moral history got dismissed. He does TV work at the White Sox. I know it's sometimes difficult in our jobs. The Canucks are having a tough season, a tough stretch, having to cut material content, etc. But could you imagine this situation? You're doing pre and post in the White Sox day in, day out. Yeah.

And Ozzie had a great bit the other day. I'm still laughing. He was talking about Pedro Graffal and him were up for the job. Like, they were going to bring back Ozzie as the manager, and instead they were going to pick Graffal. And Ozzie said, this guy is 100 games under 500 right now. He said, it made him feel so lousy. They're like, we'd rather go with this guy than you, considering how bad the season has gone. under 500 right now. He said it made him feel so lousy.

They're like, we'd rather go with this guy than you, considering how bad the season has gone. So I don't mean to make Leonard Page look a fool. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy. Eddie Perez, my colleague and friend at ESPN, knows him. I think there's some sort of Florida State connection. I'm sure he's a good man, but this has just been a train wreck of a season. As you said, this should not be surprising in any reason whatsoever. You can't keep your job when

you're 60 games under 500. And I think part of the frustration for me, if I was a White Sox fan, which thank God I'm not, would be starting to wonder, where is the promise? Where is the potential? Normally, if your team stinks, maybe Astros had their lean years, right? Then all of a sudden, it got great, and they're going to be great

for years to come, we assume, until they have to rebuild again. But there's a, there's an understanding of the teardown process for the white Sox. They're two biggest ships for Garrett crochet and Luis Robert. Another guy got traded. So a white Sox, you know, wait a second.

So I still got the two dudes. Like Robert is flawed. He has great power, but he strikes out too much and he's injured too much. Crochet was in concern about how many innings he's thrown, but the guy's lights out. He's top five strikeout there, and this is the year he's put it all together. If ever there was a time to trade him, trade him now.

He's under team control for years to come. So I think it's just a miserable season for the White Sox. I think they're going to set the record for most losses in a single season. 119 Tigers back in 03. That's the modern record. 119 Tigers back in 03. That's the modern record. That's going back 120 years. If you go back to the 1880s, I think it's the Cleveland Spiders

or someone lost, I don't know, 130 games. But it's been just a horrific season for the White Sox, and hopefully Pedro Graffal lands on his feet elsewhere. But it's been an atrocity. No question about it. I read that you mentioned Ozzy Adnan,

that part of the reason that they ultimately didn't go back to him is that internally they wanted to move forward, No question about it. Is there something short-term that they can do to signal to the fans that, hey, you know, we get how crappy this is, that you guys are watching some pretty terrible baseball this season? Yeah, honestly, man, unless it's like free tickets or free concessions, like I don't know what you can do because that's one of the things about baseball. I was working with Buck Showalter yesterday, of course, the four-time manager of the year, and Buck is an all-time great guy.

And Buck said to me, he goes, you know, no matter what, in any season you're going to win 40 games, and no matter what, in every season you're going to lose 40 games. It's the other 82 that really determine your year. And he's like, I don't think he realized how hard it is to lose 21 games in a row. Like, he's like, I know this firsthand as a manager. Like, there's so many things that go wrong. And Buck goes, quite frankly, so many

things go right sometimes that you have nothing to do with. It just happens to work out. You're getting a pitcher on getaway day. You're getting a guy after his party the night before. You get a guy after he was up late with his baby the night before. Who knows? You know what I mean? The team's tired. They're jet-lagged. The poor hotel. Travel conditions. Field conditions. Whatever it is.

You're just lucky to win sometimes, right? Number nine hitter goes deep and all is well in the world to lose that many games in a row is just unsightly and gruesome and the only positive can be, and the three of us know this as sports fans, is that when your team does win, that's the vindication for all those horrible years, so

I know there's anything the White Sox can do, man, aside from free hot dog and beer and, you know, try to bring in the kids somehow with jersey nights and every sort of giveaway. Because I'm sure they're still drawing. I haven't looked at the attendance, but I'm sure you're still getting 12,000, 15,000 diehards showing up at guaranteed rate. Which, by the way, is not a great ballpark anyways.

So it's a tough time on the south side, no doubt about it. But hey, the Bears are starting up soon, a month away. There you go. I think the White Sox are probably just glad that they broke the streak before they were hosting the fireworks night, which I think would have been the night that they tied the all-time record from the 19th century, because that would have been a

big downer if you were still losing then. Oh my god, Ray! Fireworks has even lost 22 straight games in a row. Even to go back to Grafful, the fact they didn't fire Grafful in the midst of the losing streak. They're like, let's just see how bad this can get. And then

he won one, and maybe they were like, let's see if he can pull off a winning streak. If he can win two games in a row, he can lose. He can keep his job. Nope, they lost again. They've now lost 22-23. We're going to have to get rid of him. Odd timing. If he had started a winning streak, he could have kept his job there at end. But no, no, no.

Another loss. We got to let you go. Sorry, Pedro. Yeah, I mean, who knows? There's so many questions, so many weird things about that organization right now. Sticking in the AL, in the AL West, Mariners lose last night, and that's three in a row now for them. Another night where their bats go cold.

You know, only put up two runs on the board. And they're now a half game behind the Astros in the AL West. You know, they're four and a half, I think, out of the last wildcard spot as well. They made a couple of moves at the deadline, right? Randy Orozarena, Justin Turner. But it doesn't necessarily feel to me like it's enough to really move the needle offensively for the Mariners. What are your thoughts about their chances to hang in with the Astros and the AL West

and potentially make the playoffs? No, I'm with you, Jamie. I don't think it's enough either. And ultimately, this could be an incredible season of frustration and a different matter for Seattle than it is for Chicago. You know, Chicago was supposed to be bad, but not this bad. Seattle was supposed to be good and push for a playoff spot. And instead, they're not going to get that wild card.

I believe it's either going to be the division or bust. And I'm with you. They didn't do enough offensively. Arosa Reyna has had wonderful moments in the playoffs, and he's certainly, at least among his position, decent defensively. But he's got a league average this year. I mean, at the time of the trade, I believe he was hitting 220. So he has had a subpar season by his standards.

He's under club control for a couple years. That helps, but it's not exactly like getting Pete Alonso. With regards to Justin Turner, his situation is a little different. He's actually been decent with average on base percentage. We had about 330 on base percentage, but he has not shown much power this afternoon, 23 home runs for the Red Sox a season ago. And if I was a Mariners fan, I'd go, that's it? Like, that's what we're doing?

Like, this trade deadline in general was rather underwhelming for a variety of reasons, one of which is that because of the extra wild card, more teams feel like they're in play. Only three teams are truly out of it in the National League, Rockies, Marlins, Nationals. You have less teams and less players moving. And the White Sox, again, inexplicably didn't trade much of anybody, despite the fact they've got guys they could deal. So maybe for Seattle, guys just weren't available. The asking price was too high.

But, God, if I was a Mariners fan, fellas, I'd be so frustrated. That pitching staff is amazing. And, by the way, last night, I think a great throwback pitching matchup. We've been accustomed to so much mediocrity when it comes to starting pitching and openers, all the rest of it. George Kirby is one of my favorite pitchers. He leads his strikeout to walk ratio. That guy hates giving up walks. I love it.

Just pour it in the zone and let's go. And he's facing Tarek Skubal, who for me is a sign award winner, and further cemented that by his performance last night. But night in, night out, they can't score. And if you look at their OPS plus, for those that like supermetrics, very simple, anything above 100 is a league average. I believe they only have two players above league average. That's hard to do and to win a division when seven of your nine players

are below average offensively. Julio Rodriguez in his brief career has shown he's not a first-half guy, but he needed to be a second-half guy, then he got hurt. So it's really frustrating, man. I was a Seattle a seattle fan now again the astros have not run away it's been surprising what's happened to them they were really hurt by starting pitching injuries earlier dug out of a huge hole but they haven't buried seattle like the astros are still only a couple games above 500 so it's going to be houston seattle even texas who's a sub 500 team battling for the division but i have am 100% with you.

Seattle did not do enough, and I would feel awfully uneasy about their chances of making the playoffs. Yeah, frustration definitely seems high in Seattle, and it seems like some of that is squarely on management at this point. As you mentioned, there's definitely a feeling that they didn't do enough at the trade deadline. That feeling goes back toward the offseason when there was a clamor for them to make a big move. People knew that this rotation had the potential to be among the best, if not the best in the league. What's the read on what the future of Seattle's management might look like?

Well, I think that's where it gets tricky because all of a sudden, if you're Seattle, you say, okay, like, what is the answer? Like, if I'm Jerry DePoto, who I think is fairly certain he's going to be the guy there. Like, it's not like they're having a colossally bad season. Like, if it was, you know, truly horrific, he'd lose his job. So then Jerry's the guy there for at least a year or two longer. He's made it clear that he's trying to build something here through that amazing starting pitching. But this is a team that has never won the World Series.

It's a team that's never even made the World Series. Like, to me, that's a big deal when you even make the World Series. Like, I always think about, think of your earliest sports memories. It's, what, six, seven, eight, somewhere in there. So I always look at a franchise and go, if they haven't made the playoffs since, you know, a 25-year-old hasn't seen his team in the World Series. That, to me, is a big deal. Like, Arizona last year, you know, in 2001, if somebody was five, they don't remember that moment.

But now they're 27. Like, hey, man, that was, you know, 28. They saw their team go to the World Series. That further cements your reputation and your passion for the team. So, I think for Seattle, I don't think the clock is running at all. Like, Scott Service seems to be the guy, and DeWaldo's the guy, and ownership likes him, but I was just, God, if I was ownership, I'd be really frustrated and say, listen, we haven't

won a World Series, haven't even been to a World Series. With this starting pitching, it's a colossal waste of resources if it doesn't happen within this next two or three year window. So we were having the conversation earlier in the show, Adnan, because of course, Jay's fans really upset with their team as well. Mark Shapiro talked yesterday. You know, the reaction I've seen from Jay's fans,

not overly positive to what he had to say, which fan base should be more upset and dissatisfied with their management group. And, you know, as much as it seems like the obvious answer should be the Jays, because they're just having a more disappointing season than the Mariners. I think there's something from a Seattle fan's perspective about you have this incredible rotation. You're so, you've done almost like more than half of the job to build a contending team. And it's just that final finishing piece or two that eludes you. And it feels like the Mariners fans are almost even more frustrated

than Jay's fans at this point. Yeah, and it's funny because they're still the Knicks for playoff spots. You're right. I totally understand their frustration. You know, Alfred and Brunson, to me, what's worse? If you lose the game 2-1 or lose the game 10-8? Meaning, if your team is consistently pitching well or if they're both in the pitching stinks, you're always losing.

So, listen, either obviously is not ideal. But I think the more frustrating one, if I'm a fan, is the 2-1 loss. I go, I'm a Seattle fan. I'm more mad, because at least if I score runs, you know what, let's just bash. Sometimes we can just find a way to win 9-8, whereas as a fan, if I'm in there to that beautiful

ballpark, and I'm watching George Kirby, and Logan Gilbert is an all-star, and Luis Castillo, who's generally an ace, if I'm watching Bryce Miller, if I'm watching Brian Wu, these five guys are awesome. And by the way, I don't believe in sacrificing strength for weakness. So I would not deal all those pitchers to go get a bat. I'm saying I'd look at prospects and other ways that I can do it.

I'd spend some money, quite frankly, offseason and make a big overpay and go get Peter Lutz or whatever slugger I feel like, Jorge Soler, etc. That, to me, is the answer because you're not breeding homegrown sluggers. This just hasn't happened. So I'm with you. I probably would still lean J's and say that's the thing that should be more frustrated because i think a lot of people thought hey they've made the playoffs last season they should be a 90 win team at least in the mix for the wild card i never imagined they'd be sellers come trade deadline so i'm still more disappointed jay's management i i know firsthand how many people are upset with shapar and Atkins specifically, but you certainly make a case. If I'm a

Seattle fan, I've got reason to be annoyed as well. The Dodgers are still atop the National League West, but the gap is closing. They haven't played all that well in the last week and a half. The D-backs, the Padres are pushing the Dodgers in that division. Is there something to see here, or

are the Dodgers one of those teams where they'll make the postseason and really that's all that really matters for them because they've got those championship expectations? I'd be a little squeamish right now if I was the Dodgers. I was not expecting that lead to be how we dwindled down to three. And they've had so many challenges when it comes to their starting pitching. As of two weeks ago, they had seven starting pitchers in the IL. So it's not like they have this team which they bought and paid for.

It's very expensive, and guys have underachieved. They've just been hurt. You know, Walker Buehler wasn't very good, got hurt. Kershaw just made his way back, missed the first four months of the season. You know, Glassnow was really good, a ton of strikeouts. They rested a little bit, a little bit of a back injury, but you're not sure 100% where he's been because he's never been a guy who's thrown 180 innings in a season.

So even with all these arms, there's still concerns. Thank God for Gavin Stone, who's been really good for that. You know, Constance, but Mays been out. So I think what's happened for L.A. is just clearly hard hit by injuries. And obviously Mookie Betts. I mean, he's one of the best players in the world, and he's been gone for months. Freddie Freeman doing a horrible issue with his son, the illness he had.

Thankfully, he's back and producing again. So they've certainly had their depth tested by injuries, and I'm sure they feel like, hey, come play after him. We'll be fine. This is certainly a different way to do it. In the past, they've been the behemoths of the regular season, and then Philadelphia has surprised them, or Arizona, whatever, upstart team, Padres. So it's a bit of a different recipe for L.A. right now

to kind of not be as great in the regular season. But all they're going to focus on is the playoffs. I'm sure their thought process is, hey, let's just get in. We still have the division lead right now. But I'd be a little concerned because Arizona's coming on strong. I can tell Marte has had a fabulous season, starting second baseman in the All-Star game for the D-backs. He's been awesome.

They're starting to get these arms back. Eduardo Rodriguez signed the $80 million contract, four years, finally made his first start of the year last year. He was hurt, and he got hurt during his rehab. So he's back. And again, Buck Showalter said to me last night, he goes, I think he's the best trade deadline acquisition. Meaning they didn't trade for him, but of all the arms that changed, Flaherty went to the Dodgers. There was no really major name dealt. If I told you, hey, you're getting Eduardo Rodriguez back to the D-backs,

you'd feel pretty good. Montgomery's season-long slump, but Fox is a good pitcher. Zach Allen's a good pitcher. Hopefully, Corbin Carroll emerges from his slump. So I think Arizona's legit, and I think San Diego's legit. They went in the last night winning 12 of 14 games, and the biggest reason why has been're starting pitching. Michael King's been outstanding. They hopefully get Joe Musgrove

back soon. He's been out for a couple months. Bullpen's been lights out. Suarez is awesome. They just got Tanner Scott from the Marlins in a deadline deal. So, again, LA is going to make the playoffs. They probably win the division, but Arizona and San Diego definitely put a little bit of a scare into them. Adnan, in the AL MVP

race, Aaron Judge having another typical monster Aaron Judge season, just an incredible offensive campaign. But Bobby Witt Jr. for the Royals and what he's doing as a shortstop, his month of July, I mean, he almost hit 500 for the month. Not 400. He almost hit 500 for the month. Has he pulled ahead in the al mvp race for you i'm glad you bring it up because it's certainly a worthy conversation because with having just a banana season i don't know if you guys have ever stuck to an opinion even after it's proven you

were wrong but last year me and my buddy harold reynolds he was saying bobby whitson get 300 million dollars i said you're crazy i said he's got a low on base percentage he strikes out too much yeah i get the fact he's got power and speed, but he needs to improve a little bit. Lo and behold, he did not get $300 million, so I still call that a win. He got $288.7 million over 11 years in the Royals. However, there's three years they could chip in there. It could be 14 years, $377 million. But there's no question about it.

Harold was on to something because Bobby Witt's been incredible this year. And if you look at war, which we all know, by the way, is the number one defining characteristic of the MVP. Go back to when Mike Trout beat Miggy Cabrera in the whole Tripper Clown 2012 debate. They look at war, which we all know, by the way, is the number one defining characteristic of the MVP. Go back to when Mike Trout beat Miggie Cabrera in the whole Tripper Clown 2012 debate. They look at war. Bobby Witt, I think I checked the other day, is at 7.6. Judge is at 7.7. Like, that's a toss-up. I don't think anyone realizes how great Witt has been.

And imagine if he played for the Yankees and Judge played for the Royals. Now, for me, it's still Judge as the MVP. Again, to go to OPS Plus, his OPS Plus right now, Aaron Judge, is 218. Since integration, there's only been three guys with OPS Plus like that, and they're named Barry Bonds and Ted Williams. So I think Judge is having a historic year and is on pace for 59 home runs and is ridiculous. But you're absolutely right to mention Bobby Witt,

and he certainly should get some votes. This should not be unanimous because Witt's had a remarkable year with the Royals. A year ago, he was 30 home runs and 49 stolen bases. Now he's cut down on those strikeouts. He gets on base more, and he's an absolute fire starter for a Royals team, which again, we're looking at fan bases that should be pleased rather than the White Sox and the Jays, the Mariners. How do you feel if you're a Royals fan? 56-106 a year ago. 106 losses. And this year you might win 85 games in a wildcard spot. Bobby, what's the biggest reason why? Before we let you go, Adnan, we

do have a movie question for you from the text box. It's from Don in Penticton. He's wondering, with your busy, busy schedule, how do you squeeze in movie watching? And the subtext here is, do you watch at one and a half speed, or do you consider that film blasphemy?

That's hilarious. I love Don and Dick Dickton, by the way. He has messaged us before. I love the fact he's a true fan and a supporter of Cinephile. The easy answer is, thankfully, because of my hours, I often do the 6 p.m. MLB tonight, so I get to leave my house around 2 o'clock, and

you guys know we don't necessarily have to work eight-hour workdays here. So I squeeze in that six-hour workday. I get home, put my kids to bed, blah, blah, blah. So generally, I'm pretty good for a weekday matinee. Kids are in school. And again, showtimes have changed. I'm sure years ago in Vancouver, there was just 1 o'clock, 4 o'clock, 7 o'clock, 9 o'clock. Now, like, I can go to a movie theater and get, like, a 12.05 show.

So, like, I will often squeeze in a Monday, Tuesday matinee at 1205 and then go right from the theater, right to work. So I'm able to make it work quite frankly, Don, because I don't have to work an eight hour work day like you. And most of most Canadians who are very hardworking as TV people are very lazy.

That's, that's the long and the short of it, quite frankly. And I do not, never watch it. We wanted to have speed. I, I find that funny by the way,

cause my wife, what she'll do is she'll just kind of forward it. Like she'll scroll ahead by 10 seconds. I was watching, I don't watch, whatever this, Game of Thrones, House of Dragon, whatever the hell it's called. I don't watch that stuff. But I was just sitting with her on the couch

while she was watching it. And she started scrolling. She presses the 10 second button. I go, what are you doing? She's like, ah, it's just a boring scene. I go, but you could be missing pivotal dialogue. How do you know nothing's happening? She's like, ah, nothing's happening.

So she does that all the time. I'm like, I don't know how you can do that. I will tell you on podcasts, though, I will never listen to regular speed. I love the one and a half speed. Every single podcast I listen to, I go one and a half speed. I try listening at one speed,

and I'm telling you, fellas, it sounds like they're drunk or it's slurred speeds. It's way too slow for me. People often tell me I'm the one podcast, by the way, they can't listen to at one and a half. I talk so fast. I will never watch it. You're self-adjusting.

I'll never watch a movie at one and a half, but podcasts at one and a half, for sure. You're self-adjusting to one and a half speed at it. I got one more movie question for you. So my co-host this week, Israel Fair, big movie guy, big Michael Mann fan, and Izzy recently, his long-term girlfriend, finally convinced

her to watch the movie heat. She loved it. Gave it a five stars on letterboxd. And then a mere five days later, Izzy pops the question and proposes to her. So clearly it was the fact that she, and she said, yes,

by the way, clearly it was the fact that she loved heat, that she gave it five stars that sealed the deal for Izzy. Do you approve of this as a way to, a final test, to see if you're compatible to spend the rest of your life with somebody? Without question, I 100% endorse it. Congrats to Izzy and his very smart, lovely girlfriend who has great cinematic taste.

And I'll tell you the specific story. I don't know if you guys read the movie Diner. You probably don't. Before your time, 1983, Barry Levinson filmed by a bunch of guys in Baltimore. Mickey Rourke, Steve Guttenberg, Daniel Stern, etc. One of the funniest scenes in the movie, Daniel Stern, I think it's Daniel Stern, he gives his fiance a similar test.

He quizzes her on football. I believe it's on the Baltimore Colts, on the football team. And there's one scene where they're all waiting and he comes out and has this look on his face, whether or not she passed the test. So my own wife, she told me she was a huge movie fan. I said, okay, and she said she loved The Godfather. So I gave her a Godfather quiz.

It's very informal, three questions. But the third question was, what's the name of the sergeant? You know, the famous scene when Michael pops him in the restaurant, where, you know, he truly becomes Michael Corleone. He kills Barzini, but what's the name of the sergeant? And she kind of paused, and she goes, McCloskey? And I'm like, all right, we're ready to get married. So I fully endorse anyone using movies as a barometer.

And God, Michael Mancini, all-time great movie. I have some quibbles with it. Like, it's not like a top 10 for me. And again, I love it. I love the score. I love the way it's shot. I do think, and Pacino's my favorite actor, for the record. But I do think he's a little too over the top at times.

And in fairness to him, by the way, it's not his fault. Again, I will defend Pacino on all things. What happened is that the character is a recovering co-cast. So he encouraged Al to go really over the top. Give me all you got! You know, you could kill a walking dog and all that stuff, right? But, like, it doesn't make sense if you don't know that he's a recovering co-cast. If you had someone say that, go, hey, Vincent is prone to these outbursts because he needs cocaine oh okay i get

it he got crushed for like overacting at times i'm like well that's not fair to al but i do think it hurts at the movie at times but de niro is fantastic it obviously is a great soundtrack and uh the dialogue is amazing and i was just thinking about you know that you know one of the all-time great lines by the way from a movie you know for size more says for me the action is the juice i'm in like that that's an all-time great life for an all-time great lines from a movie, you know, Fred Sizemore says, for me, the action is the juice. I'm in. That's an all-time great line for an all-time great movie. And obviously Val Kilmer. How about nonverbal body language breaking a man's heart

when Ashley Judd just gives that motion with the hand? Unbelievable scene. Adnan, fantastic. I'm really, really glad I asked you that question and got you going on heat. Fantastic stuff, as always. Thanks for doing this, man. All right, Jamie, Izzy, awesome stuff, boys. Thank you, and congr. Fantastic stuff as always. Thanks for doing this, man. All right, Jamie, Izzy.

Awesome stuff, boys. Thank you and congrats again, Izzy. Thanks, Adnan. Appreciate it. That is Adnan Virk from MLB Network and the Cinephile podcast. You knew I had to get that question in. You literally waited until she gave Heat five stars.

And they're like, all right, I guess I can propose now. There's some misrepresentation there. That's how I understand it played out. I know we got to do CFL report. Hot take from me. My favorite Michael Mann movie is actually Collateral. I love Collateral. I prefer Collateral.

I know Heat is his most famous movie. I actually prefer Collateral to Heat. Heat is fantastic. I like Collateral. You know what? Michael Mann movie I watched the other day that I'd never seen. I think it might even be his debut. Thief.

Yeah, Thief's really good. Awesome movie. Awesome, awesome movie with James Caan. Really, really enjoyed it from 1981, so I would encourage everyone to check out Thief. That's a very good movie. My second favorite Michael Mann movie, Manhunter, which he did the Hannibal Lecter movie before Silence of the Lambs.

It was the original Red Dragon. It's based on Red Dragon. It's the same story, but yeah, Manhunter was really good. It's awesome. Alright. It is now time for the cfl report brought to you by securing canada the official life insurance partner of the cfl looking ahead to week 10 action of course the bc lions back in action looking to get back to their winning ways after a tough loss against the blue bombers last week they take on the edmonton elks in

edmonton uh on sunday that's kind of wrapping up the week in the CFL. The Elks only won in seven, so you never want to chalk up a victory. They're on the road, but you like the BC Lions' chances, and as I said, get back to their winning ways. Before that, tonight, 4.30 start time, Saskatchewan visits Ottawa. Two teams above.500, the 5-3 Rough Riders going up against the 5-2 Ottawa Red Blacks. Tomorrow, Calgary visits the Toronto Argonauts. And then on Saturday, it is the Hamilton Ticats taking on

the league-leading Montreal Alouettes in Montreal. Montreal looking to improve on their 7-1 record. That was the Canadian Football Report brought to you by Securing Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL. More baseball talk on the way. Ben Nicholson-Smith joins us to talk Jays here next on Halford & Brough Sportsnet 650. It's a work in progress.

I think there's still a good portion of the season left, so to make final conclusions now would be premature, and that's more for Ross to discuss at the end of the season. Welcome back to Halford & Brough Sportsnet 650. Jamie Dodd, Israel Thayer here with you. Halford & Brough is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today.

This hour of Halford & Brough is brought to you by Primetime Craft Beer. Meticulously brewed for quality and taste. Primetime Craft Beer is full flavor without compromise at a liquor store near you or visit the brewery to see how it's made. 650-650 is the Dunbar Lumber text line. The Bridge Street Dunbar Lumber in Ladner has moved to Progress Way in Tilbury's Industrial Park. More room, more product, more awesome details at DunbarLumber.com. We're less than an hour away from what we learned time. So get your texts in now, and we will do that at 830.

But before we get to that, now joining us from Sportsnet, Blue Jays insider, he is Ben Nicholson-Smith. Ben, thanks for doing this today. How are you? Doing well. How are you guys doing? We're doing really well. So Jay's fans and Jay's media got a chance, a relatively rare chance, to hear from Mark Shapiro directly in a press conference format yesterday, the president of the team. What was your overall reaction to what Mark Shapiro had to say. Yeah, it was interesting to hear from him because it was the first time that we've had the chance

to ask him questions in that kind of arena since opening day. So definitely want to read into the comments, even if there wasn't necessarily breaking news out of the conversation yesterday. And for me, the big kind of takeaway is what he's saying about Ross Atkins. And he didn't necessarily say anything all that concrete, but he did say that evaluations

are fluid. He did say that, you know, the Blue Jays obviously aspire to be in a different place than where they are right now. But he also talked a lot about the value of stability. So to me, that leaves Mark Shapiro the door open in both directions. If he really decides in eight weeks' time that it's time to move on, he could do that. But at the same time, he's certainly left the door open to Ross Atkins staying in place and being the GM for this team into 2025. I don't think that that's something that the vast majority of fans are probably excited to hear but what what is the case beyond Shapiro making the case for continuity for why Ross Atkins deserves another offseason to try this to get this team back on track? Yeah I mean it's to me

the case would be and this is this is not me making this case, but me kind of guessing at what Mark Shapiro would say here. I think that it would be that being a major league GM is really hard and you are going to have some years that work out better than others. And if you look at some of the past off-season, some of the past work that Ross Atkins has done, it's been good. There have been times where he's gone out and traded for Teoscar Hernandez or signed Marcus Simeon to a one-year deal or signed Robbie Ray before he wins the Cy Young. Those are really, really good deals.

There's no question about that. If you're taking the big, big picture, you could say that there's an advantage to the continuity, to the kind of understanding that Ross Atkins has of the organization, and that with better moves, if he can get back to making some of those better moves, then all of a sudden you're looking at a rebound season for the Blue Jays, and we'll look back at 2024 as more of an exception. But realistically, that's hoping for a lot, right? That's hoping that Ross Atkins gets back to where he was a few years ago. There's also a case to move on. Whether it's Ross Atkins or he's replaced by another GM,

but it's still Mark Shapiro, do you get a sense that the front office is interested or open to kind of significantly changing their approach about team building? Or I guess a better way to put it might be, do you have a sense of kind of what lessons they're taking away from this season and how they're going to apply that and maybe tweak how they do things going forward? Yeah, that's a great question, because regardless of who it is who's making the choices, there is kind of a process in place, right? And that's a very Blue Jays word is we have this process, we have this way of doing things. And so regardless of who's making the decisions, is the process working for these guys? And clearly it's not this year and clearly it's not at the minor league level because their farm system continues to rank in the bottom third of teams. So, yeah, I do think that there was one comment that Mark Shapiro made that was a little eye-opening on that front,

where he did acknowledge that they have not done a good enough job at developing pitching in particular. And, I mean, that's undeniable. You look at their record of drafting pitching, they've only selected one player in the draft who's been worth as much as two war at the major league level, and that's Alec Bonoa. So that is a long time to go where you're not meaningfully improving your pitching via the draft and via your development system. So that clearly is something that they need to do a better job of. None of that speaks well to Mark Shapiro or Ross Atkins

because pitching is a huge part of the game and you can't just bypass it and expect to sustain a winning team. But the fact that they are at least realizing that is an important part in turning those results around. Before the deadline, the Jays did move a lot of their rental players and they got back some prospects and some assets that may help them next season, but clearly probably more work to be done to be in the mix at the very least in 2025. When you look at what's with the roster right now

and the anticipation that the Blue Jays may have a little bit of money to spend in the offseason, what's the key area that they need to target more than anything to at least put themselves back into that contention conversation? Yeah, I do think it's pitching just because, you know, and I think they had a really good deadline. In the midst of this really bad season, I do think they had a good deadline. And I think they made the most of selling the rental players that they did and getting back some really good returns.

That being said, they got only one pitcher in all of those trades who's likely to contribute in the major leagues next year, and that's Jake Voss. He's probably going to start at AAA sometime soon, could be in the major leagues later this season, definitely at AAA sometime soon, could be in the major leagues later this season. Definitely someone that we would expect to see in the major leagues next year. So that's great. You add Jake Voss, but that's one pitcher. And we saw them trading away a lot of different pitchers, whether it was Richards or Kikuchi or Pearson, Jimmy Garcia,

they parted with a lot of pitching. They get back one dude. So now they are going to have to sign pitchers. They're going to have to trade for pitchers. That to me is the case every off season, but especially this off season, if they want to contend next year, they need to add substantially to their bullpen. They need to add at least one major league caliber starting pitcher. And those additions are going to have to work. They're going to have to be better than what the Blue Jays have done. Certainly when it comes to, to building out a pitching staff in the last 12 months. So that's the biggest area for me is pitching.

I know this is a big question, Ben, and probably one that's very, very difficult to answer. I'm sure it's one the Jays have asked themselves a lot, but why has it been so difficult for them to draft and develop pitching that helps them at the major league level? Yeah, I mean, they've made mistakes. They've picked the wrong pitchers. They've used picks on pitchers, and those pitchers haven't worked out.

Whether it's someone like Nate Pearson pearson um at the top of the draft or all the way to the to the bottom rounds of the draft you have you use usually about half your picks in the draft on pitching and the jays have not turned those into good pitchers same internationally right it's not like they have a young 19 year old from venezuela who's coming up it's not like they have a 21 year old from the dominican who's coming up. It's not like they have a 21-year-old from the Dominican who's coming up. So, you know, this is a huge part of the game. It hasn't been good enough. As for why, I mean, they've just picked the wrong guys.

And that comes down to your ability to evaluate. It comes down to your systems. They have to look at all of this. There's an element of, you know know at the very top of the draft you do expect um some of these players to not work out you certainly don't expect every every first round pick to work out but you you need some of them to work out and the chase just haven't had enough whether it's been mark shapiro or ross atkins they've both been pretty careful pretty cautious when it comes to talking about a potential extension for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. That was the case yesterday with Shapiro not really tipping his hand one way or another as we are past the Blue Jays. I'm curious how you think that this season will play into what he can ultimately command

when either he's negotiating an extension with the Blue Jays or perhaps goes to market. Yeah, you know, I think that when you look at Vlad Jr. and the season he's having, it's been an incredible year. And it's going to help him, whether it's with the Blue Jays or with other teams in 15, 16 months from now. And it's, it's kind of wild because on, on the other side of things with Boba Shett, you look at a player who just hasn't been on the field as much as we would have expected. He hasn't performed as well. And so as a result, his prospects as a free agent don't look nearly as good.

We're still a year plus away, so there's still a long time for these things to shift and for values to change and expectations to change. But as we sit here right now, we're looking at one player who's taken full, full advantage of this season to give himself a ton of leverage in Vladdy, and then another player in Beau Bichette who just hasn't taken advantage in nearly the same way. Another bright spot for the Jays this year is Dalton Varshow's incredible defensive season specifically. He had a hot start offensively. You know, the offense is still a little bit hit or miss,

but what he's doing on a daily basis in the outfield and now full-time in center field is is just really incredible is he the best defensive player in in baseball this year ben yeah i i would say that he's definitely the best defensive outfielder in baseball um it's tough to compare an outfielder to a shortstop or catcher. But I think, you know, certainly watching him is pretty incredible on a daily basis. Talking to his teammates and the coaches around the Blue Jays, they're in awe of what he does. And I think rightfully so.

He does things and makes catches that other fielders simply don't make and don't come close to making. And he does it consistently and he doesn't miss. We're not seeing balls clank off his glove or him stutter step and awkwardly have something bounce off him. He has been so consistent, clearly deserving of a goal glove. And even in a season where he hasn't hit that well, he's deserving of everyday playing time because he makes such a difference with his gloves. So yeah, it's been impressive to watch. And I would say he's the best defensive outfielder in baseball. He's now going to be the center fielder certainly for the rest of this season. And you have to imagine for a little while longer, having a guy that has that defensive upside and has shown at times that he

can do a little bit with the bat, how do you imagine that that changes the way that the Blue Jays view how they have to build out the rest of the roster, the rest of the lineup? Yeah, well, you know, going into this past season, going into the 2024 season, it's funny, they knew they had Dalton Varshow and how good of a center fielder he was. They still went out and they got Kevin Kiermaier, who's also a great center fielder and also a left-handed hitter. And they added in a way that ended up being kind of redundant because you have two below average offensive players who are really elite defenders and they

both play center field and they both bat left-handed. So clearly you don't want to do that again uh that is not the way you want to use your resources use your money spend your money so i think that if they're going to add an outfielder this season um probably makes sense to be a power bat um someone who would play left field now they might also want to give a lot of time to joey loperfito and davis Schneider and Addison Barger and all those guys can slot in as corner outfielders. So, you know, does that mean that you end up spending on a DH type or a second baseman or even a third baseman? There's some different ways that you could look at this when it comes to acquiring a position player in the offseason.

But one way or the other, I would say you definitely don't want to acquire a center fielder. Yeah, no doubt about that. And just looking ahead to the rest of this season, but especially next year, you mentioned the positive trade deadline that the Jays did have, bringing in a lot of prospects, a lot of young players. Of those players they acquired, who is in a position to perhaps meaningfully contribute to the team as early as next season? Yeah, I would say Joey Loprafito, who we're seeing now at the major league level i made some really nice catches the other day um a lot of strikeout in his game um he's gonna swing and miss but there's some power and uh some potential there jonathan class a uh who they acquired in the jimmy garcia trade has a lot of upside. Blue Jays people are really excited about him.

Again, there's swing and miss to his game, but he's really fast and he's got sneaky power. He's a little guy who can move and has some offensive potential. Then there's Bloss, who I mentioned. He's a starting pitcher who has the upside to be maybe a number three. So that's really, really promising. You need those guys on good major league teams. There's even Will Wagner, the son of longtime major league closer Billy Wagner, who probably will be in the major leagues this year at some point,

maybe even within the next couple of weeks. So, yeah, between those guys, we're talking about, you know, four players, you know, Charles McAdoo, probably a little further along, but certainly by next year, he could be there as well. So that's pretty substantial. That's what you want to do if you're a losing team at the trade deadline. Ben, really appreciate the time and the perspective. Thanks for doing this.

You got it, guys. Thanks so much. Thanks, Ben. That is Blue Jays insider for Sportsnet, Ben Nicholson-Smith weighing in on just a very, very disappointing season and the path forward

for the Jays. And, you know, it's very interesting. You asked him, what's the case for Ross Atkins staying on? He had to stretch

a little bit. He even said, like, look, this isn't me making the case. Don't get it twisted here. I'm just saying, I guess this would be the case.

He doesn't want those arrows. But it wasn't exactly a confident, oh, well, here's the obvious case that you would make. It was, well, I guess if you squint and you say this and you buy this argument, then you can make a case. But not exactly a rousing vote of confidence from Ben Nicholson-Smith there. Well, that's what, it goes back to the conversation we were having about the Blue Jays and the Mariners is the inability to admit mistakes and be specific. Shapiro said it yesterday. Atkins has been saying it consistently

since the season went off the rails. We're disappointed. Well, there's something that, you know, you can be disappointed when things are completely out of your control. And that is a fair emotion. But in this case, in those two people in particular, they have a little bit of say. You know, do they have any say in Alec Manoa getting injured and struggling? he mentions the idea of going back to the last offseason. And while Dalton Varshow proved himself as a full-time outfielder and arguably the best left fielder and a guy who, in a pinch,

could handle center field, who's under contract for a while, why are you going out and giving Kevin Kiermaier another one-year deal? For as good as that story was, his first year with the Blue Jays, you're hamstringing yourself from a versatility perspective. You're really hurting, especially two guys, as Ben pointed out, that are not known for being big-time offensive producers. And the problem with this team is that its offense has fallen off dramatically from where it was just two or three years ago.

2021, the Blue Jays led the majors in home runs. They are nowhere near that anymore. And that is obviously a huge concern. Not to mention, again, as Ben mentioned, that they've got some issues on the pitching staff now. They had a really strong rotation at the time, but a number of older guys, Kevin Gosman's had a good Blue Jays tenure.

He's not getting any younger. Chris Bassett was a shrewd signing at the time he's in his mid-30s and that next wave is not there right so i think if ross atkins really wants an opportunity uh you know he'll get that from mark shapiro the fans won't be the ones to decide that but if he wants to at least get a little bit more rope from the fans a little bit more buy-in from Toronto Blue Jays fans it's to point out of hey this is where this is where we made mistakes and I I don't imagine that's going to come and I imagine that that's going to be probably less than satisfying for most Blue Jays fans if he is getting the opportunity to

remodel the team in the offseason you gotta think they just have to even if it's not like a full-fledged kind of repudiation of the way they've done business like it has to be more inspiring just for their own self-preservation right at a certain point they have to try to do something more inspiring than what they were able to accomplish in this last offseason because at a certain point, as much as Shapiro might have the trust of ownership there and he's done a lot of things off the field for them, at a certain point, the results do have to come for your team. By the way, we were talking earlier about most long-suffering fan bases in sports, and A-Dog made the point that you might have to give it to the Mariners.

Somebody texted in, Jimmy from North Van, Leafs fans have suffered more. None of their fans were alive during the last championship. Well, we're coming up on 60 years. At least they've won something. There are people who do remember it. And there are young fans that can hang their hats and be like, well, my team's won something. And no Mariners

fans were alive because they've never won a championship. So, yes, the Leafs last won a long time ago. They haven't made the finals since then, but it's still different than literally. Guaranteed if the Canucks won a cup, you know, in the early 70s, or let's pretend the team has been around as long as the Leafs and they won a cup way back in the day. Canucks fans, some of them would be like, hey, at least we've won something.

Yeah, they'd crow about it for sure. At least give you something to hang on to, whereas the Mariners, it's just there's absolutely nothing there. Get ready for the ultimate sports fan trip to Michigan from September 27th to October 1st. Experience games at the Big House, Comerica Park and Ford Field. Contact Neil Shark at Neil C at Uniglobe Carefree dot C.A. For details, we'll talk a little Seahawks with Ian Furness from KJR Radio in Seattle next. We might touch on the Mariners as well, but it was a really interesting practice at training camp for the Seahawks with Ian Furness from KJR Radio in Seattle next. We might touch on the Mariners as well,

but it was a really interesting practice at training camp for the Seahawks last night. A bunch of fights, or yesterday I should say, a bunch of fights breaking out. So we'll get into that with Ian Furness next. Of course, what we learned is coming up at 830. Guys, we need more submissions. We need you to fill the final segment of the show for us.

No prize today, but just rise to the occasion. Do it for the love of the game. Text in your What We Learn submission, 650-650, to the Dunbar Lumber text line, what you learned in the last 24 hours in sports. We'll read them at 830, but up next, it is Ian Furness from KJR here on Half and Abrupt Sportsnet 650.