Halford & Brough in the Morning - If You Shoot The Puck At The Net, It Might Go In
Episode Date: December 12, 2024In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), they talk the recent deferential play of every Canuck other than Quinn Hughes (6:00), they chat how people misunderstood Dranc...e's media rant yesterday (15:00), plus they discuss if the Canucks will re-sign Brock Boeser at the reported price (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.
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da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da are repeat offenders. I think that's what upsets the staff. And I think we've got to make sure that we clean that up.
Unconscionable.
I don't even understand what just happened.
Reasonable expectation of a rush chance
coming down your team's throat.
Well, that was a little too much for me.
I've heard there are five teams still in on Burns,
and I certainly believe it.
He's an ace pitcher.
I can't even believe it!
Good morning, man. Good morning, 6-0 can't even believe it. Good morning, Vancouver.
6-0-1 on a Thursday.
Happy Thursday, everybody.
This is Alfred and his brother,
at EsportsNet 650.
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Jason, good morning.
Good morning.
Adog, good morning to you.
Good morning.
Laddy, good morning to you as well.
Hello, hello.
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Kintec, we got a big show ahead of a big Thursday in the world of sports.
14, 14 NHL games tonight.
Thursday night, football tonight.
It's a good night to stay inside and work in your couch groove.
We will get the guest list underway at 7 o'clock today,
which means the first hour of this show is uninterrupted.
Hal Bro, 7 o'clock, Nick Kiprios is going to join the program.
Host of Kipper and Born on Fan 590.
Trade board, Kipper's trade board 1.0 dropped yesterday on Sportsnet.ca.
A lot of interesting material in there, including a bit on Brock Besser.
So we'll talk to Kipper about that.
At 7.30, George Richards is going to join the program, Florida Hockey Now.
It is the Canucks hosting the Panthers tonight.
7 o'clock from Rogers Arena.
A reminder, Canucks Central is at 4.
Pre-game show is 6.
Actual puck drop at 7 o'clock.
You can hear it all right here on Sportsnet 650.
Speaking of Sportsnet 650, Thomas Drance of Canucks Talk
and the Athletic Vancouver is going to join us at 8 o'clock today.
Drancer went a little viral yesterday.
Yeah, he had a day yesterday.
He had a verbal sparring session with Rick Dollywall.
It was everywhere.
That was so funny.
Everyone was kind of teaming up on Dollywall.
Donnie loved it.
He's like, let's get him.
We're also giving away tickets to see Creed and Big Rack.
Let's not forget Big Rack and all of this.
The Summer of 99 Tour is on Saturday, August 16th, 2025.
Note the start date.
Relive the glory days of 1999.
At Rogers Arena, we're going to give away a pair of tickets every day this week.
We've been doing it.
We will continue to do it today and tomorrow.
Caller number 5 at 8.15 this morning.
The number 604-280-0650.
That number again, 604-280-0650. That number again, 604-280-0650.
We're going to give away tickets at 8.15 to caller number five.
So if you're listening live or you're listening via podcast
or you're recording it and playing it back on cassette,
you now know at 8.15 this morning,
caller number five will win a pair of tickets
to see Creed and Big Wreck Rex Summer 99 Tour in August.
A reminder, tickets go on sale tomorrow for this, 10 a.m. at Ticketmaster.
Okay, that's what's happening on the program today.
Drancer at 8, George Richards at 7.30, Kiprios at 7.
That is the program.
Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened.
Hey, did you guys see the game last night?
No.
What happened?
I missed all the action because I was...
We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy
your life can be.
What happened?
You missed that?
You missed that?
What happened?
What Happened
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The Canucks practiced
yesterday ahead
of today's very interesting
tonight's very, very, very interesting game
against the Florida Panthers.
Some notable developments from the practice.
JT Miller skated as an extra forward.
The deep pairings were all jumbled up
and Mark Friedman is on his way back to Abbotsford.
Take it away, Jason.
Yeah, well, it didn't look yesterday
like Miller would play tonight
against the Panthers,
but I suppose you never know, especially with this team and this situation. it didn't look yesterday like Miller would play tonight against the Panthers,
but I suppose you never know,
especially with this team and this situation.
Miller did not address the media.
We wondered if he might since he was,
you know,
practicing with the team,
but I guess since he practices as an extra forward,
they didn't deem it necessary for him to meet the media or he wasn't, or he wasn't ready to meet the media.
As for the D pairs, they'll likely change after, as you noted,
Friedman was returned to Abbotsford following the practice.
But we still don't know if Forbort or Brandstrom or both will return to the lineup.
Taka called Forbort a strong possibility to return.
But here's the thing.
He was skating with Friedman. practice, so I don't know.
And Friedman's not even on the team anymore.
Yeah, who knows?
I suppose if Forbort isn't quite ready,
it's possible they go Hughes with Myers,
Soucy with Juleson, Branstrom with Darnay.
That's a combination they've done before,
and I suppose they could go back to it um on Miller Talkett
would only say that he is getting close and that he doesn't know the exact date of his return
he said he talked to Miller in the evening I guess on the phone or texting I don't know
he didn't rule out Miller playing against the Panthers but I don't know if he's not taking regular line rushes.
This whole thing, again, this whole thing has been unusual to say the least. As for the actual
game tonight and how his team was playing, do you remember Talkett in um when he took the job and he said game management
has to improve yep and that was when we used to kind of joke about the canucks they'd have like a
a one goal lead in the third period and they'd be making fancy plays of the blue line like drop
passes risky plays risky cross-size passes you'd be like come on guys like you know you don't have
to go into a shell but you have to make smart plays when you're playing with the lead. This was a little bit different
when he was talking about game management, but he was kind of saying, look, you know,
game management is something that I've really struggled with, with our team this year. He said,
I'm not sure a high risk play when a guy like Robert Thomas or Nikita Kucherov is on the ice is such a good idea, and we have to get better at it.
Last year, we were really good at it.
This year, I think we've been a bit loose on that.
And that just kind of goes to the overall theme with the Canucks.
Yeah, they've had injuries.
Yeah, they've been missing some key players but i think the other
thing is and this is possibly for a few reasons number one maybe this is difficult to do and
they're just like ah okay fine we'll do it and number two they got a bunch of new players
yeah i think that's part of it but but you know like talk it also said we got to get back to
our team identity and the thing is that i'm kind of getting at is like they don't seem to be doing the things that they were doing last year.
No.
And I'm not talking about staying healthy, which they did.
But just their attention to detail, their coverage in front of their own net, things like game management. I mean, that would probably include
taking a too-many-men-on-the-ice penalty
in a tie game with a few minutes left.
Those types of penalties can't happen.
There does just something,
there seems to be something more than a little off
about this team, that's all.
Yeah, you know, when we talked yesterday
about when Rick Talkett identifies
what the issues have been
with his team this year,
there's always these very
specific moments in games
that he points to.
And I think this, you know,
quote that we're picking here
kind of underlies that
where he talks about like
making a high risk play
when a certain player
is on the ice.
Like, I think he realizes
right now that his team,
if they're going to have the kind of success that they had last year,
they're going to have to pay way more attention to the script as laid out.
The way that they play, the style of game that they employ
is not going to be something that's going to give them a ton of scoring chances.
And I think the underlying theme here is a ton of opportunities to outscore their problems or outscore the mistakes they make
like we don't have the wiggle room to make a lot of these mistakes because we're not going to score
the goals to compensate for them we're not going to possess the puck enough we're not going to have
enough chances off the rush we're not going to have enough high danger chances we just don't play
that way well they don't play that
away under Talkett, and right now
they don't have the personnel to do it because they don't have
the defensemen that can move the puck up to the forwards
aside from Quinn Hughes, and they don't
have JT Miller in the lineup.
Let's play some audio from Talkett's media
availability yesterday on Elias Pettersson.
We'll pick it up on the other side.
Talkett yesterday... Hold on, hold on a sec.
Hold on a sec. I don't want to just play this.
I want to explain this, okay?
Okay, explain.
So the Canucks scored a power play goal against the St. Louis Blues.
Now, the penalty killing is another issue,
and they've got to clean that up because they've allowed three
in the last couple of games.
But how many times have we talked about the power play
and talked about how when they do manage to get possession of it in the
offensive zone, it seems to be like, all right, we're going to pass it around the perimeter.
We're going to pass it around the perimeter. We're going to pass it around the perimeter.
Nobody's going to shoot. Some of you aren't even going to look like you're going to shoot.
You're just going to pass it and defer to the other guy and eventually defer to, you know who,
Quinn Hughes at the point.
And Quinn is finally going to throw his arms up in the air and go,
all right, fine, I'll do some tap dancing at the point and I'll throw it on net.
He likes to fling it.
Everyone gets what I'm talking about here, right?
That's like often the Canucks power play,
and Quinn seems to be the only guy that really, really, really,
really wants to shoot.
We talk about it a lot.
We talked about it, and what did we say?
Everyone looks so deferential.
They're deferring to the other guys.
I thought it was interesting yesterday.
Tockett said the exact same thing,
and he talked about how when Petey actually,
I mean, he didn't shoot,
but he put it towards the net,
and then Pareko put it in his own goal,
but even if Pareko wasn't there,
Garland was there for the easy goal.
The point was the puck went towards the net.
Right, not towards Quinn Hughes.
Not towards, or not to just like,
all right, I got it, I'll pass it on to the next guy.
It's not a game of hot potato.
The idea is to put the puck
towards the net eventually.
And so, when
Pedersen... This is like a cool wet sack thing.
Put puck on net. Well, honestly,
I... Oh!
Don't you think Talkett feels like
he's... I was throwing away from the net. Garbage in
garbage can. He's teaching that class right
now. It's so ridiculous. So, here's
Rick Talkett on,
not just,
this isn't about Pedersen, okay?
This is just about the entire team
as a whole.
Like I told P,
I love the fact that he threw the puck to the net there.
If Pareko doesn't have a stick there,
I think Garland scores.
That's the play.
I think we're getting more of those type of goals.
Jake on the road trip got a few goals in the power play around the paint.
We're not passing around.
We're not deferring.
Now, we're having sometimes, you know, we're not liking the power play
because we are deferring too much.
But that play to me is a big play.
And whether Millsy comes back, we got to still have the same mentality.
I can just imagine Talkett going up to Petey after he was like, yeah, mean you didn't shoot it you kind of you passed it but like it went towards the net
and you know I think that's one of the things about that we've all seen from Pettersson on
the power play you know he doesn't look like he he's even trying to shoot like he's not even setting up in one of
those one-timer positions he's just kind of he's on the perimeter he's like okay I'll take the puck
and uh give it over the next guy right like he did rip one off the crossbar and that's good I was
like when I when I saw that I was like yes more of that do you remember uh a few games ago it seems
like a while ago now he actually did score on a one-timer on the power play.
We're all like, oh, maybe that'll start something.
Maybe that'll start the confidence.
So anyway, whenever we talk about this, we go into this long round about,
why isn't he shooting?
And someone will text me and be like, I think he's got a wrist injury
or something like that.
And you're just like, oh, I can't do this anymore.
Putting too much pressure on the knee.
Right?
Yeah.
So I just thought it was interesting
that talk it used the same language that we've been using on the show a lot and that would be
like deferring or deferential he wants guys to play more like quinn hughes who is definitely
not deferential he's like okay fine i'll do it it. Like, more of that from the key players.
There's two jumping off points here that are bigger picture
than just talking about the power play.
And the first one, to me, is that right now,
I know that there's been a lot of criticism, dare I say,
blowback of Rick Tockett's coaching through the first quarter mark
of this season.
We see a lot of it in the Dunbar-Lumber text message in basket.
If you watch social media, you'll see more of it than last year for sure.
This year, I would go as far as to say he's had a tougher time
getting his guys to do the things that he wants done.
I think in year one, and when he came on board after Boudreaux and then the full
season, I think he had a group that
was
I don't want to say more willing to listen
but maybe more open to taking
coaches' suggestions
because they weren't having any success. Were they more
desperate? Possibly. And don't you think that was
interesting? I don't know if you and
I have ever discussed this, but what about
Patrick Alveen when he said that they came into training camp with a lack of humility i think that's part of it
i think that they thought that we maybe not thought but maybe just acted like winning was going to be
um as commonplace as it was last year it wasn't easy because they worked hard to win last year
but winning was commonplace last year they won a lot more games than they lost and maybe that
just assumed with like well we have our core guys in place we have a style won a lot more games than they lost. And maybe that just assumed with like, well,
we have our core guys in place.
We have a style
that we want to play.
And then we added
all these pieces
and free agency.
Everything should work,
even with the injuries.
And people didn't
join the team
thinking that they were
joining a team
that had to play desperate.
They thought they were
the guys, the new guys
that were joining a team
and like, oh,
this team's on the up and up.
They were going to take
their next step
in their evolution.
Tauket has said countless times in his post-game media remarks
about what he's asking the guys to do,
what he wants them to do, and what he needs them to do.
He's got a very clear vision, I think, of how he wants them to play hockey.
And it looks a lot more like what they did last year,
for sure, than what's happened through the first few games of this season
where they
got the lopsided scores and the five and six and seven goals against that never happened last year
right they played a much more buttoned down style the other part of it is that and we've talked
about this at length this team is going to be decided in the early stages by three guys
petterson hughes miller and then the fourth guy is demko i mean i
i know that you have surrounding parts to a team but guys come and go your core is your core right
now um when you talk about deferring it just feels like everything is being deferred to hughes not
necessarily in a bad way because he's the best player on the team well especially with miller
not being right because miller is a mill Miller is the type of guy that won't...
Miller is...
We talk about his gunslinging style.
100%.
Which can be a good thing most of the time,
but a bad thing.
But when he's not there,
it's all on Hughes pretty much.
And Garland, I suppose.
And when he's in the lineup,
he's not really a deferential type personality.
No.
He grabs games by the scruff of the neck.
He will take the puck and go do things.
Hughes is doing that right now.
I think maybe when the Pedersen conversation does happen,
a lot of people are saying, be that third alpha or whatever.
Be that guy where you watch Hughes and he's like,
everyone's putting the puck on his stick because they know that he can make things happen.
They want that from Pedersen.
When Miller comes back, they want that from him.
And that's where it suddenly becomes, well, now when you're these guys
and opposition has to hold these guys accountable and try and keep them
in check, it frees up space for Garland to continue to be a driver
and Sherwood to continue to do the things that he does.
Maybe Joshua gets his game back on track.
Can I just say one thing about Talk It's PD rant?
Because I listened to a lot of the station yesterday
and I was following along on social media more than I usually do.
So many people got that rant wrong.
So many people saw that as an actual shot at the media
for asking critical questions of Petey,
I really think you need to go back and listen to what happened.
Farhan put a question about Petey to Talkett on a platter for him for Talkett to say something nice about Pedersen.
Okay?
It was one of those questions where, you know, Farhan's a TV guy. So oftentimes
he's looking for that soundbite for his story on the Canucks where Talkett would say something like,
it's great that Petey has stepped up to the plate while JT Miller has been absent, right? That would
be a great TV story just because, you know, Pedersen has been producing points.
He was a key part of them getting
a point off
the St. Louis Blues.
He made a nice play
to DeBruyck's
and he also
had that
own goal,
the Colton Pareko goal
where
Talkett praised him.
But,
I don't think
Talkett is ready
to just like
unload with praise right now.
Even though it would be the easiest thing to do.
And just because I don't think he's like, you know,
it's just like someone like asks you to compliment them.
You're like, oh.
I mean, I do it all the time.
It's just the easiest thing to do.
Right.
But I think he was just like, you're great at radio.
Well, thank you. See, it it works even when you're lying um so he went with yeah he's producing
but he's producing is very different than he's playing well
hughes is producing but also driving everything but also playing well that's the eye test though
so I think if you
if you watch it over again
I think you'll see
that it was a guy that
didn't want to be put in a box
by the media
and like
cause quite often times
it's a dance
right?
like
the media will ask questions
expecting an answer
and it's not to grill the media especially when the TV guys are doing it.
They just want the coach to say something.
So it's something for their story, right?
And, you know, if it's true, great.
But I think Taka was just really hesitant because he's just like,
he sees what a lot of us sees.
He's like, yeah, he's getting points.
But, you know, there's a reason that i have
to praise him when he puts the puck towards the net right he's not playing that attacking style
that we need out of him yeah does that make sense it does um like i don't i didn't see that as a i
didn't see that as a criticism of the media for asking critical questions and i think what drance
was saying yesterday was that was actually like a
really easy post-game interview from a media perspective.
Like there were no hardball questions.
There was nothing of that sort.
And for the most part, Drance has been talking,
Drance was talking about like the team reporter,
who's frankly whose job is to be more positive than negative.
Like the team reporter often starts off the scrum
and the Canucks could lose five to two.
But if, you know, Quinn Hughes scored a nice goal,
you'd be like, you know, the first question might be like,
you know, the team lost tonight.
Not the result you wanted,
but how about that goal by Quinn Hughes?
Bounce back in the third.
Right? Like, that's what a lot of the media veils have been like.
Yeah, I think, well, I mean, there's a lot to this, right?
And I think part of the thing is that I don't know if the way
Todd could address that had entirely to do with Pedersen,
more to do with there's probably a fair bit of frustration
across the board.
And I think that's an important thing here,
is that if you were to get the guy in a,
you know, one-on-one off the record conversation, I got a feeling he'd probably have a few things
to talk about. One would be that his blue line is nowhere near NHL playoff caliber quality.
I think another one would be, is that injuries have really derailed the early part of the season.
I think another one would be that he's without JT Miller for 10-plus games or whatever it's been right now.
And I think another one would be is that they're not playing the style
and they're not playing it to the way that he wants them to play.
And I think another one would be, and someone just texted in,
they're not that physical and not that violent
and not that mean and not that gritty a group.
I've counted on three different occasions this year
where big hits have been laid on pretty important
players to the team.
Seen it happen to Hughes.
I've seen it happen to Pedersen.
You've seen it happen to Garland.
And there's been no response in a league where clean hit or no, the first thing that happens
when a big hit gets dropped is the gloves get dropped.
It's just sort of par for the course in the NHL.
Now, there's probably an entirely separate conversation we can have
about the leagues getting soft,
because I have seen this complaint from a number of different people
following a number of different teams that hitting's way down,
responses are way down, the nastiness is way down.
But this team, I would not classify it as one that plays with an edge,
like with a physical edge.
And for the head coach,
given how he came up and played in the NHL,
I'm sure it drives him nuts at times
that they're not that team.
I think all of it probably has got him frustrated.
This is not the trajectory
that a lot of people saw this team was going to go on
from the first season with Rick talking in charge
to the second.
They're kind of almost trying to rediscover who they are and what they are.
And the takeaway for me yesterday wasn't about being deferential on the power play.
It was that as we head into a game against the defending Stanley Cup champion
Florida Panthers in December,
Rick Talkett is still saying that they're not playing to their identity,
that they haven't quite found it yet.
And that's got to be concerning for a coach.
Because last year was building identity year.
This year was supposed to be, you know, how do we change that a little bit?
How do we make it look a little bit different?
How do we get a little bit more variety in our attack?
Not how do we figure out the things that made us successful last year?
Okay, we're getting up against it for time.
We've got a whole bunch of stuff that we need to get into
in the back half of the first hour.
Well, it's interesting because earlier in the show,
you were talking about the Canucks core, and you said,
look, it's Petey, Hughes, Miller, and Demko.
And I was thinking, what about Brock Besser?
Well, Nick Kiprios, who we're going to talk to about at 7 o'clock,
had a report, but it was a report but he it was it was it was hidden not hidden but put in
a a list of trade candidates on uh in an article on sportsnet.ca and we talked about it a bit
yesterday and we talked about how well that's interesting that Sam Bennett was at the top of
the list from a Florida perspective and we're going to see Sam Bennett tonight in Vancouver.
He's a pending UFA.
Well, so is Brock Besser.
Kipper wrote that the Besser camp is looking for a contract in the range of eight years,
$8 million cap hit.
And I would love to hear from you via text into the Dunbar Lumber text line at 650-650,
would you be comfortable with the Canucks giving Brock Besser
an eight-year $64 million contract?
We'll talk about that on the other side of the Halford & Brough show
on Sportsnet 650.
Canucks Talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance.
We'll dive deep into all that's happening with the Vancouver Canucks.
Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. 631 on a Thursday.
Happy Thursday, everybody.
Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650.
Is it Thrash Thursday?
No, it's not.
You've got that voice. I like it. Thrash Thursday? No, it's not. You've got that voice.
I like it.
Thrash Thursday.
I was watching the...
This is new Creed.
Creed has reinvented itself.
I was watching the Vince McMahon Netflix documentary.
I didn't...
I turned that off.
It was fine.
I kind of knew it all.
Yeah, I knew it all too.
I was like, I know the storyline, how this is gonna go yeah fine yeah it all it got usurped by the earlier
documentaries that have come out like all the storylines that they were presenting yeah yeah
like i knew them all right they had a big section on the montreal screw job i'm like there's a i
mean i can already about that isn't it just like the story of a guy who is a great promoter and maybe got a little bit confused
about like who he really is yep there's the family dynamic stuff near the end because i
watched it all the way okay i didn't see that yeah it gets real uncomfortable blurring the
lines between what's the reality and what's what's the stage stuff i always want scripted and what's
not i wonder what he'd be like as a dad not great right not great yeah um there and then obviously but that's true of a lot of um
you know when you've got a family business and the business is the family yeah the business
often trumps any family dynamics it was basically like when they you grow up in a business not a
family when they flip the switch to we're gonna lean entirely into the family dynamic as a performance art right yeah
yeah and then it was like well wait a minute the line that you know some of the scripts and some
of the things they were saying in the ring were so spot on about you know you never loved shane
like you loved your daughter and all it was like, are they acting?
Are those real tears?
I bring this up because Hulk Hogan was in there just the whole time.
He's like, I love Vince like a brother, brother.
Anyway, so it was good.
It was good.
Thrash Thursdays here on the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.
Before we get into some Brock Besser talk here,
courtesy of Nick Kiprios, who we're going to have on the show at 7 o'clock,
need to take care of some business.
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Street in Vancouver. So yesterday
on Sportsnet.ca
Nick Kiprios, former
NHLer, host of the Kipper and Bourne
show on Fan 590, dropped
his Trade Board 1.0.
A first look at
intriguing possibilities as we get
closer to next year's trade deadline.
And on that list, right wing for your Vancouver Canucks, Brock Besser.
So the report here is that Besser is looking for eight years north of $8 million AAV.
And the kicker, courtesy of Kipper, Vancouver isn't yet prepared to pay him what his projected value is.
Then it goes on to say, kind of the obvious thing that's hanging on the ether.
If they can't get a deal done,
they're going to have to at least consider potentially moving him around the
trade deadline.
Well, management said they need to figure it out before the trade deadline.
And look, we all know there's three options here.
One, extend them before the trade deadline.
Two, trade them before the deadline. Three, wait until the offseason to deal with it and all three options
come with risks if you extend them before the trade deadline then you know like there's contract
risks especially if it's eight years 64 million dollars uh if you trade them before the deadline
well you've just traded brock besser then right right? And this is a team that hopes and I would say expects to make the playoffs,
and then you don't have him for the playoffs.
And then you're like, okay, well, who are our goal-scoring wingers?
And then if you wait until the offseason to deal with it, this is the most obvious risk.
What if you lose him for nothing?
And maybe you're looking back and it's like, God, we didn't even win a round in the playoffs,
and we're letting Brock Besser go for nothing?
Yeah, you get its cap space, but none of the potential returns.
So this is a very, very tough decision for the Canucks
because Brock Besser isn't a 100% obvious slam dunk,
got to re-sign this guy. If Quinn Hughes comes up, you're like, yeah, you got to re-sign this guy, right?
If Quinn Hughes comes up, you're like, yeah, you got to re-sign this guy.
Brock Besser is a little bit different,
and I'm going to read a bunch of texts into the Dunbar-Lumber text line,
and this is basically exactly what I expected when I asked,
how would you guys feel if the Canucks went 8x8 for Brock Besser?
Very mixed bag.
Okay, here's one text.
The core is too old and hasn't won regularly.
It needs refreshing or a shakeup.
No way I'd pay Besser $8 million and stay the same as they have been for five plus years.
The core is stale.
Besser will be much too slow and doesn't drive a line so no signing him signals just more band-aids okay I don't know if 100% agree with
that staleness thing but that's one take um Rocket and Langley texted I said right after Brock Besser's
40 goal campaign time to trade him while his value will be at the highest ever.
Suki and Maple Ridge, who actually texted an apology afterwards for waffling so much on this text, but I think this is a good text.
He says, I love Brock, but I don't think he's a perennial 40-goal guy.
Given his injury history as well, it's a tough decision.
On the other hand, with the cap
seemingly going up significantly over the next few years, would his percentage of cap be worth it?
We don't have anyone in the pipeline to replace his scoring immediately either. Here's another one.
Yes, do it. Goal scoring wingers are hard to acquire. If he is is gone you are missing 30 to 40 goals tones yes do it because
his game isn't predicated on speed two-way intelligence and finding good spots to shoot
from it is also a marginal salary increase relative to the future caps so um you know i
i personally like besser a lot and I think the Canucks would miss him
a lot in the short term, but I worry about the longterm if he wants eight years.
One of the common themes that came up in the text inbox is that Besser isn't the fastest
skater.
That's always been the knock on him that, and being able to stay healthy.
And if he loses a step,
how many steps does he have left?
Yeah, no, it's a fair one.
You got to try and look ahead
and see how potentially punitive
an $8 million cap hit will be
two or three years down the road
or whenever an eight-year contract
for Brock Besser sort of starts to turn sour, like when the milk goes bad,
because eventually it's going to.
It's very unrealistic that he's going to give you
$8 million worth of production
for all eight years of the contract.
That's just kind of the norm of these long-term deals
that guys sign at 27, 28, or 29.
Right now, what's the cap supposed to go to next year?
92.4 million, up from
88, right? It's supposed to have a pretty big jump.
If it can
continue to go that direction,
8 million becomes far
less onerous on your cap.
Right now, though, there's some teams
that are choking on $8 million
cap hits. I mean, that was the New York Rangers
with Jacob Truba, right? It was
very difficult to move him
and it eventually had to be this sort of ham-fisted
way to force him out so that he could
go to Anaheim.
I do think
that
this is the tricky part. Besser's
done everything that the organization
has asked of him.
He's met
the challenges. He's met the challenges.
He's scored goals.
He had a 40-goal season last year when people were like,
it'd be great if he got to 30
for the first time in his career.
And he's got, what,
seven goals in 20 games this year?
Yeah.
That's a decent pace.
Especially considering how much time
he missed with a concussion.
Which is pretty, you know,
there's more than just the actual games missed
when it comes to a concussion, right?
You've got to try and find your feet again.
Beloved teammate.
I think, you know, for...
Important line mate for JT Miller.
So there's a lot that he's done.
Unfortunately, I'm talking about like the past tense, right?
And if there's one cardinal sin for NHL executives,
it's paying guys for, you know, past performances
or what they've done for you, like loyalty contracts,
because those are the ones that
often come back to bite you because the best hockey the guy has played might have been in
the rearview mirror it might not be looking ahead then that's a problem so there are two
things that i think about and if i'm management i think okay being honest how are we really in a Stanley Cup window right now?
That's one of the things you have to ask.
And I think I would probably say, yeah, because Quinn Hughes is so much in his prime.
We got to do everything we can while Quinn Hughes is under contract at such a good rate
to go for it, right?
The other thing that I would wonder is is lecker mackie a factor
in this yes that's not even a question because they've been pretty keen to fast track him
which doesn't necessarily mean rush him but they do seem keen to see what they've got now as opposed to you one plan might have been all right
johnny canuck is that catching on yet probably not jonathan leckermacky you're going to the ahl
and that was what brandon asshole was calling him down in the ahl johnny canuck didn't even
know that was a thing yeah yeah so you missed it that missed it. That was with Dodd. So go down to the AHL.
We're not going to forget about you.
We're still going to monitor you,
but expect to last the season there.
Expect to get your feet wet in North American hockey.
Go down, score a bunch of goals.
Then we'll talk next offseason.
But almost right from the start,
literally actually right from the start,
it was training camp.
It was like, well, wait a minute.
Are they going to give Lekarimaki a shot to play?
And I thought that was a bit odd, but then I thought, okay,
well, maybe they just really like him
and they think that he can contribute to the NHL lineup.
But I did wonder if there's some sort of relationship there
with the Besser decision that they've got to make.
Because if Lekarimaki comes in and it appears he's ready
and it appears he's only going to get better from here then that's a right winger with definitely
not the same exact type of player than Brock Besser but some of the similar profiles like he's
a he's a right shot he's a guy that can go out on the power play, he's got a good shot, he can score. That's his job.
So I wonder how much that is going to play into it as well.
I wonder if this thing is going to go right down to the wire and the wire being the trade deadline.
Do you think they might try and trade Bester for a defenseman
of similarly equal value?
I mean, you won't get a one-for-one, but I mean, like, with that in mind.
I think the most likely thing that happens here is it goes through the year
and they try and revisit it after the season's done.
Really?
Just like that?
That's so much, yeah, I guess.
An in-season trade?
I think the least likely thing to happen is an in-season trade.
I think the second least likely.
With this management group?
With Besser, yeah.
I think it would shake up the team way too much.
I think it would be too jarring to the season that they're having.
I think the second less likely thing is that there's an extension reached in season.
And I think the most likely thing is that they say,
let's get through the year and we'll run the risk of exposing you potentially to free agency.
So Jay texts in.
Because remember, Jason, one thing you do gain,
even if he leaves, is the cap space.
I was just going to read the text from Jay.
Jay texts in,
there is no such thing as losing a player for nothing in the salary cap era.
You gain 6.65 million in cap space
and can replace him with a 25-30 goal scorer
for the same or less, i.e., or e.g., DeBrusque.
So, yeah, I think, look, I think it's a tough decision.
Well, it's incredibly tough.
But I also think it's easier, possibly, to let him go
if the Canucks don't turn their game around.
Because maybe then you're thinking, all right, well, it's not working right now,
so we have to have a bit of a different mix.
Like, Adog, you asked,
could he be traded for a defenseman?
Maybe, but more likely would be
his cap space is used for a defenseman.
Yeah.
Let's say we're approaching the trade deadline,
the Canucks are in a playoff spot,
but maybe not necessarily comfortably.
They're fully healthy on the blue line,
but still the blue line is an issue as it would be,
even when fully healthy.
And management is looking like,
okay, if we want to get through the first round,
we need defensemen.
We need to be better defensively.
We need to acquire somebody somehow.
So who do we have a value to do that?
But it's like robbing Peter to pay Paul, right?
You get the defenseman in and
I understand what you would lose.
This guy can make a great first pass.
Oh yeah? Who's he passing it to?
No, no, no. I totally understand that. That's
the conundrum. Because you trade a goal
score. But that's why does
Lekermacky factor into this decision
because it's not just a decision for next year.
It's a decision if you're going to sign him for the next eight years.
The thing that you're talking about is sort of what Buffalo and Colorado did
when they did the middle stat for Byram trade,
which was we have a need, you have a need, we have a surplus,
you have a surplus, let's get together and make a good old-fashioned hockey trade.
It's had mixed bag results for both teams.
The concept of it is fine.
The issue with Colorado is that since winning their Stanley Cup,
it's just been this endless, impossible, revolving door
of trying to find the pieces
and trying to recapture some of that magic.
With regards to Besser in this particular season,
I do think that trading him probably makes sense from a business perspective,
but there is that entire underlying notion of how much he's liked,
how important he's been,
and the fact that he was not just a terrific regular season contributor last
year.
When they got to the playoffs, a place they hadn't been in a long time,
he was scoring with regularity.
You miss him in the postseason as well.
It's not just the 40 goals in the regular season.
I understand the idea,
but I would be shocked if they traded Besser before the deadline.
Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen.
To me, it would just be shocking, especially if they traded Besser before the deadline. Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen. To me, it would just be shocking, especially if they're in a playoff position at that time.
Now, let's talk about their upcoming game and their upcoming schedule
because the way things are going for the Canucks,
there's no guarantee that they are in a playoff position at the trade deadline.
It obviously
won't all be decided by tonight, but there are certain games that come up throughout the year
and you consider things that had happened before, you consider things that had happened in the last
game, you consider the opponent and you go, tonight seems like a big game and it's weird to consider tonight this
massively big game it's a non-conference opponent on a thursday night but yesterday just seemed
like i was thinking like is this team about to blow like do you know what i mean like or or is
am i am i just projecting what was kind of a crazy day in the media
and the fan base yesterday on the team?
But, you know, the St. Louis game created some feelings.
Let's just put it that way.
Now you've got the Florida Panthers,
who are the defending Stanley Cup champs, coming to town.
They are a big, tough team.
I don't know if JT Miller is going to be in the lineup for the Canucks.
It doesn't sound like he is considering he was skating as an extra yesterday.
But these next three games, Florida, Boston on Saturday,
Colorado with all their firepower on Monday.
On the positive side, let's start with the positive side. These next three games represent an opportunity to make a statement that the
Canucks can up their game against better opponents. They haven't done that so far this season. But on the negative side, I think it's also a situation where if the Canucks don't up their game, things could get pretty dicey because I think the fan base is already frustrated with the way that the Canucks have been playing overall, but especially on home ice. If they lose to the
Panthers in a way where the Panthers come in and bully the Canucks, really bully the Canucks,
and they have the potential to do that. They're playing some pretty good hockey right now.
People are going to talk about that. I know it's been a long time since 2011, but if the Bruins
come in and maybe Brad Marchand scores a bunch of goals and they beat the Canucks on a Saturday night at Rogers Arena.
People are going to talk about that.
And Colorado, Colorado is the type of team that they play some pretty wild games,
but they have the ability to pump goals by you with McKinnon, Ranton, and McCarr.
Let's focus on just tonight because the circumstances are not great for the Canucks and it's it does
lead to tonight being a fairly big game despite the fact that as you mentioned it's a non-conference
opponent on a Thursday home ice has been a nightmare for the Canucks this year especially
when they played really good teams I would argue that this Florida team in the form and shape that
they're coming in right now is the best team that Vancouver's played at Rogers Arena this season.
The other contenders would be Carolina,
which they lost.
New Jersey, who skunked them 6-0.
Edmonton, who skunked them 7-3.
And then maybe you could throw Tampa Bay another loss
or whoever else.
So this Florida team right now
has won six of their last seven.
That one loss that they had was in overtime.
So they've got 13 of the last 14 points.
They're 100% health.
They're first in their division.
They're playing the Canucks for the first time since back in October
when the Canucks won in overtime.
But the Panthers were without Kachuk and Barkov.
They got the second leading goal scorer in the NHL in Sam Reinhardt.
They have five players with at least 20 points.
No team in the NHL has more players going to the Four Nations faceoff
than the Florida Panthers.
They got eight, including Reinhardt, Kachuk, Bennett, Barkoff, Lundell,
Listerainen, Mikula, and Forsling.
They are as good as you can get in the National Hockey League right now.
And the sad thing is if the Canucks were playing this game in Florida,
I think they'd have a better shot
because their home ice performance hasn't been that bad this year.
So that's the landscape.
Not pressuring JT Miller to do anything,
but if he doesn't play tonight, it'll be too bad
because he's the type of player you'd really like
against a team like Florida.
I don't know if Florida's going to remember the loss
in Sunrise earlier in the season and be like,
we've got to get revenge on that.
I don't know.
It's not that.
They're just rolling.
They're just a good team.
But they're rolling right now.
If you go and look at their injury report,
there isn't one that shows up because
everybody's healthy. This isn't the beginning of the season
Florida Panthers. And
they found a way to
overcome the departures
from last season's Stanley Cup winning team.
You want to talk about what a
Stanley Cup contending blue line looks
like and how far off Vancouver's is?
This team was
able to withstand the losses of Brandon Montour and Oliver
Ekman-Larsen.
Montour might be Seattle's best defenseman.
If not, he's one of the top two or three on the team.
And Oliver Ekman-Larsen might be one of the best two or three defensemen
for Toronto.
They lost those guys, and they're still rolling a blue line that's pretty
formidable with Forsling, with Mikula,
of course with Ekblad.
It's not as good as last year's.
I wouldn't be surprised if they looked to beef that up as well.
But that's what a Stanley Cup winning team looks like on the back end.
There's no Julesons.
There's no Freedmans.
There is a Nate Schmidt.
But, you know, you can make do when you're the defending Stanley Cup champion.
So Safety Mike texts in and says,
I think the biggest issue with the Canucks right now
is that they are largely a perimeter team.
Their power play is purely based on
passing it around the perimeter until Hughes shoots.
Their five-on-five play is built on Hughes or Garland
carrying the puck into the zone
and then pass it around
until someone is bold enough to shoot.
And I would add that that shot normally comes from the point.
And safety, Mike, I could not agree with you more.
In the offensive zone, they have been way too
perimeter.
And that, I thought, was the issue with the top
line in the last game.
There were a couple times where the Pedersen-Besser-DeBrusque line at five on five got position in or possession
in the attacking zone it was all to the outside and eventually it was just a point shot and I
think it was like Mark Friedman ended up being the shooter at one point and he had a decent chance
but it's still Mark Friedman from the point.
And I don't think there was much traffic in front of the net.
You know, they ultimately did find a goal
right at the end
on that nice play from Petey to DeBrus,
but that was six on five.
So you've got a man advantage there, right?
At five on five,
you got to find a way to the middle of the ice
and they're not doing it enough.
Now that's not to ignore all the problems that are emanating from the back end
because the defenseman can't make a good first pass and they're often not
hitting the offensive zone with speed because of that.
But they did manage a couple of times to get set up.
And while it looks good and you're kind of like all right
they got the puck in the offensive zone that's good they're making some passes nothing's funneling
to the middle of the net yeah and that and that's where goals are scored and that's another thing
that talk it was talking about like that's where goals are scored you know yeah you'll you'll have
a nice once in a while you'll have some a point shot that goes in or you'll have a nice, once in a while, you'll have a point shot that goes in,
or you'll rip a shot off the rush or something.
You'll beat the goalie cleanly, especially if it's Seeloff's.
But, you know, like most of the goals are scored from right around the net,
and the Canucks need to get both the puck and some players there.
And do they have the personnel to do that enough?
Okay, coming up on the other side of the break
on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650,
Nick Kempiros is going to join us at 7 o'clock, 7.30.
George Richards from Florida Hockey Now
is going to join us to preview things
from the Panthers' side of things.
A reminder, 7 o'clock tonight, puck drop from Rogers Arena.
It is the Canucks and the defending Stanley Cup champion, Florida Panthers side of things. A reminder, 7 o'clock tonight, puck drop from Rogers Arena. It is the Canucks and the defending Stanley Cup champion, Florida Panthers.
Canucks Central is at 4.
Pre-game show starts at 6.
You can hear it all right here on Sportsnet 650.