Halford & Brough in the Morning - Is A Canucks Goaltending Controversy Brewing?

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason preview tonight's Canucks road tilt at St. Louis on Amazon Prime with Prime NHL analyst Thomas Hickey (1:16), plus they discuss the 'Nucks goaltending situation with NHL.com & In Goal Magzine's Kevin Woodley (27:54). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

7.02 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are now officially in hour two of the program.

Thomas Hickey, NHL analyst, he'll be on the call tonight. On Amazon is the Canucks take on the blues from St. Louis, he's to join us in just a moment Here for our to our to this program is brought to you by Jason hominac from Jason dot mortgage If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you I am joking let him do both of those things visit him on the internet at Jason that mortgage We are coming to you live from the kintex studio kintec footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. So the game tonight, 430 puck drop from St. Louis.

It's on Amazon Prime. You can also hear it all right here on Sportsnet 650. Joining us now, former NHL defenseman, now an analyst with Amazon, Thomas Hickey here on the Halferd and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Morning Thomas, how are you? Good morning guys. I'm good. I'm good. I'm I'm ready for this one tonight and you know, I'm pretty excited you know when you put a schedule together at the start of the season And then you know as far as broadcast schedules go you don't know what you're getting but you know in particular

I know you guys have probably been on you know playoff talk and the hunt and falling behind for a little while now but obviously you know I think everyone knows St. Louis is right in the mix with Vancouver so sort of makes for an intriguing one here with two teams that I think they both probably feel like things are slipping and they can't really afford to lose to lose any ground to one another so I think it will make for a good one tonight. As a former NHL defenseman yourself, how excited are you? Just get to watch Quinn Hughes play tonight. I can't wait.

Honestly, I truly mean that, um, uh, even yesterday, like, you know, I'll watch Quinn Hughes whenever I can, but, um, you only get so many times that you can sit down and watch an entire game and fast forward and rewind. And I did that yesterday with Vancouver's last game and with Hughes, it's just there's so many plays that he makes casually that for another player would be not a highlight real play, but it would be like, oh wow, I didn't know we had that. And Quinn Hughes is just doing it every single shift.

It's remarkable to watch. I consider myself lucky to be at ice level tonight and get to see that up close. He's obviously got a skillset that's very unique and very high end. Did you ever play with anyone comparable? Or who was the best defenseman that you either played with or were paired with?

And I guess compare that to what Hughes is doing right now. As Jason pointed out in our intro, a 21 point lead between him as the leading scorer on the Canucks and then the second leading scorer on the Canucks, which is both good and bad. Yeah, that is good and bad. I never played with anyone that good. I mean, I got to play with Drew Doughty, World Juniors. I mean, he was incredible, a different type of defenseman, similar in a lot of ways. But throughout the course of a full season, I had a lot of great partners. I won't name them all, because none of them were even close to the Quinn Hughes level of not just being able to skate as well as he does, but control the puck and control the play

and the pace every time he's out. So, I mean, maybe if I was still playing with Quinn, maybe I'd still be playing. I would just give him the puck every single time I got it. Thomas, to make a long story short, we've been talking a lot about how the Canucks and especially their forwards are not getting enough slot shots,

high danger chances. This season, they rank near the bottom of the league in a lot of categories. Um, in watching the Canucks, well, you know, you watched the game the other night and Quinn Hughes provided all the offense. What are you seeing from the forwards and when

teams can't create these slot chances? Why is that usually? Yeah, you know what? I, I started to pay attention to it because I know that that's getting some traction. And generally when I hear about things like that, you know, it feels like people might be reading through the advanced analytics and go, Oh, look, our chances are down in this area. Why aren't we getting that? But when you actually do watch the game, there's something to it, right? Everything is low to high.

And I mean that in the offensive zone, the defenseman, or sorry, forward gets it, and he's going up to the point. And maybe it's a D to D, or they're just putting it back down the boards, but it is noticeable with Vancouver. And I do think that they do it more than other teams. And I think that's why you're seeing less slot stuff.

I mean, here's the thing. You want to go low to high and use your D? Well, to your point, Quinhuys scored both of the goals last game on plays like that. So, yes, it can work, but when Quinhuys is not on the ice, that's when things get different. I think with him and Khronic up there, you can do that, you can utilize that. Look, there's teams that do it like the Carolinas of the world where everything is just low to high, shoot from an angle, rinse, repeat over and over again. Vancouver's not quite the same makeup.

I think you get so deferential to the best player on your team over and over again, that that becomes a habit. And then you realize that he's only on the ice every other shift or once every third shift and you're putting it back to guys that don't have the ability that he does. So I think it's a bit of a habitual thing that the Canucks are going to have to break. But I think that's what leads to probably less slot opportunity, slot area chances. I guess the difference between Carolina and

Vancouver is that, you know, I asked Rick talk at after the game lab on Saturday, I said, you know, are there too many times when the Canucks are deferring to the point man? And he said, a million percent, like we're working on it. Yeah. We're true.

We don't want that. And he was working with Elias Pedersen yesterday at practice, just trying to get him to hold on pucks, even when under pressure. If you're the coach of any team and you want to get your team around with the puck in the slot area more like what can you tell them? Or are there any, is there any system stuff that you can devise to create more opportunities in the slot? I mean, I think you're telling people to go to the

area first and foremost, like before you're, I think before you're thinking about even putting the puck there, you're, you're thinking about having people in that general area to begin with. You know, to be honest, the Vancouver team that impressed me so much for stretches of last season. I mean, that was the team that really cycled it well. And yeah, they did use the points quite a bit, but they were sort of a cycle team and a team that

you know might get the puck up around the hash marks and then zip it all the way behind the net to the other corner and you'd have J.T. Miller there you've had Brock Besser waiting and they'd make people come to them and come out of position and with that I think there's opportunities in the slot area and to your guys point Vancouver right now it's sort of a low high team. Let's get it back to the point and see what happens. And with that, I think you're drawing less and less people away from the net. But I mean, Rick Tocket over myself is certainly looking for the remedy and a better chance of finding one.

But those are just some things that they come to my mind when I think of how do you get to the net front a little more. What do you think it's like coming to the rink every day and trade rumours are out there? Elias Pedersen is in the rumour mill, JT Miller in the rumour mill. These are two of the Canucks top players. They got big contracts and their names are just, I mean, the Canucks might be the noisiest team in the league this season. What do you think it's like coming to work for the Canucks? Uh, really, really difficult and not very enjoyable right now.

I mean, I, I don't want to speak for anyone because I'm not in that scenario. So like, I mean, you got guys that are privileged to play in the NHL. So every day you come to the rink, win or lose, whatever. Yeah. You're going to realize that you're fortunate.

Um, At the same time, being around a situation like that, it's draining. And even for the guys not Nate Miller and Pedersen, I think it would be extremely draining coming to the rink and not knowing if a new story is broken or leaked or if someone's in a bad mood because they're constantly dealing with this stuff. And you know that at the end of practice and the end of games you're going to get asked things and it's often going to lead to what's the noise level like in there? How do you block it out? I think more than anything it would drain a ton of mental energy out of these guys and I'd probably be feeling the same way as much as you block it out it's something you're thinking about or trying not to think about and

really it does get exhausting after a certain point and and maybe they're at that right now. We're speaking to Thomas Hickey former NHL defenseman now an analyst on Amazon Prime NHL coverage the Canucks and Blues are on prime tonight at 430. Thomas real quick before we let you go let's set things up from the blue side of things. What are you looking for from St. Louis tonight as they host the Canucks? Well, I mean, that's a team that's also needs to get some guys going. They've got some contributions from guys like Jordan Kyra, but some of their big name guys, like I'm looking for sort of a breakout from them, the Robert Thomases of the world. looking for sort of a breakout from them, the Robert Thomases of the world. But you know, their backend,

when I look at Pareko and Fowler together, I mean, that's a guy that's gonna see a ton of matchup hockey for whoever's going good with the Canucks tonight. And you know, he's a guy that just eats up so much ice. He's sort of on the career path for career highs right now. I mean, we're just over the halfway point through the season, but offensively, his output's been there. So I look out for big number 55 tonight. He sort of has command of the game, especially

this season, but he's a really good shutdown player as well. So I'll be looking to him and I want to see a little bit more out of Robert Thomas, who I think really highly of. So if the Blues can get that, I mean, it's going to make for a great game and the valuable two points that both of these teams want are up for grabs. So hopefully the best comes out from both sides. It is the Canucks, it is the Blues. 430 puck drop tonight from St. Louis. Thomas, thanks a lot for doing this. Excuse me, thanks a lot for doing this today. Really appreciate it. Have a good call tonight, enjoy the broadcast? We'll do this again later.

You got it guys. Thank you. Thomas Hickey from Amazon prime former NHL defenseman here on the health and rough show on sports net six. They got choked up at the end. Saying goodbye. I hate saying goodbye. So what are you looking for tonight? Well, who's going to start a net? That was my number one note by the way. Really? I'm very invested in the Goli drama. Yeah, what's this Goli controversy you promised us?

Well, exactly. I delivered on slot chances. I don't even want to say slot anymore. Boy, did you. I am wondering if we have moved from, because I jokingly threw this out over the weekend. The, oh, Goli controversy talk starts on Monday. And then I got the token replies like typical

Vancouver media always trying to be toxic. I blocked all those people. And then. We don't try to be toxic. We're successfully toxic. Yeah, it just comes naturally. It oozes from my pores. Uh, no.

And then, so after getting sifting through that, I did think it was interesting that the overwhelming majority were like there's no controversy You just play lankan into this stage of the game. So whatever Thought or feeling there was about giving dim co a run of games To try and get them to figure it out and get back on track at least from the public perception that I had on social media Seems to have dissipated right now track, at least from the public perception that I had on social media, seems to have dissipated. Right now, it seems like everyone is just play Lankton and play them a bunch. I thought he was very good against Washington on Saturday night.

It was a 32 save performance, only allowing one goal to one of the highest scoring teams in the National Hockey League. And it came after a week, of course, in which Demko. I mean, that was a tough four game stretch, right? After not getting that game in Winnipeg, which the Connacks got bombed, and he's only had a couple of good performances this season. And this was the sort of run of games that people talked about. You need to give them that starters workload where he rips off three or four

starts in a row. Well, four starts in a row. It's a five one loss to L. LA, which is five goals on 21 shots. You get the win last Saturday, not the one that just passed, but two Saturdays ago against Edmonton. When they kept the Oilers to 15 shots. Right, two goals on 15 shots. Yeah, you won the game, but it wasn't exactly one

where you got goalie and your goalie stole it for you. Then the three two lost to Buffalo, which they had a two, one lead going into the third period and he wasn't able to lock it down. And he was upset after that one, you could tell. Then that's followed up with the six, two lost to Edmonton where he gives up six goals on 34 shots. If you add it up over those four games,

it's one win, three losses. And I know Laddy's cringing that I'm tagging a goalie and a win lossloss record, but it's also an 833 save percentage. So. If Demko can't regain his Vezina caliber form due to this injury, what do the Canucks do? See, I don't know if it's due to the injury.

Well, okay, well, regardless. What do they do? I mean, that's an easy answer. I mean, they don't resign them. Yeah, you pivot off the goalie. Yeah. And you say thank you for your service, and you tip your cap, and.

But do you trust Lincoln to be a starter starter or do they have to find somebody else? Because I mean Lankanen's look really good but can he play a starter's workload? What was your old theory on goalies? It's all voodoo. It's all hoodoo. I think that you can find a guy. They found Lankanen. You know?

Do you like a 1A, 1B sort of thing? It's a risky thing though. When you start searching for value goalies, you can look pretty silly. Now you can look really smart too. And there have been teams that have won Stanley Cups with guys that people are like, really? That guy? You want a Stanley Cup? But in the same breath, there's been teams where coaches have been routinely dismissed

because they never had a goal. Of course. Yeah. Of course. But in the same breath, there's been teams where coaches have been routinely dismissed because they never had a goal. Of course. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, it's a scary place to be when you're searching for that goalie. And.

But I want to table that part of it though. But I just want to say really quickly, we haven't been lucky with a lot with the Vancouver Canucks, but since Roberto Luongo came to Vancouver, for the most part, we've been very lucky with our goalies. Yeah, it's been great. Compared to others, compared to other teams.

There are youths out there, youngins, kids, that don't know that Vancouver was at one point a bona fide goalie graveyard. They don't have any, they don't remember it. You don't remember Felix Potvin and Kevin Weeks and Dan Coluche. Don't remember any of them. You don't remember Felix Potvin and Kevin Weeks and Dan Coluche. I don't remember any of them. You don't remember how many guys came here.

We remember the, the constant search for the next one. Yep. Well, after Kirk McClain, there was a real dark time in Vancouver with goalies. Alex Hold. Lasted a really long time. And he was a bright spot.

Yeah. Aldous, Aldous was one of the better ones. There was a really tough time and we just don't talk about it that often because, I mean, look at this season, for example, the goaltending could have kneecapped this team, but they go and find Lankton and he's been one of the best for agent signings in the entire league this season.

Now I respect where you're going with your conversation. I know they do have to make a decision on Demco, but I think you almost need to table that because there's so many more pressing matters right now, like the pressing matter of trying to get into the playoffs.

And if that's the case, and if you are now in, we got to win and that's the primary objective on a nightly basis, then you have to put the, well, let's try and get Demco into a groove on the back burner. Here's a question for you. Okay. How much of a priority is making the playoffs for this organization right now?

I mean, it's gotta be still. It's gotta be. Like, I'm sure they'd rather make the playoffs, but what they do with Brock Besser is going to be pretty important. They've got Elias Pedersen and JT Miller on the trade block. They're actively trying to move these guys. It doesn't sound as though- They'll have to move Besser too if they aren't in a comfortable playoff spot.

Well, I don't know. I mean, they can't let them go for nothing. Wow. They could resign. They could resign, right? Sure, yeah. They could resign them. But I mean, so far, it hasn't sounded like that.

By all accounts, it sounds like they're grinding them pretty good and basically saying like, you could probably get more on the open market if you go to unrestricted free agency, but you seem to like it here. How badly do you want to be here? How badly do you want to be here? Your dogs love it here. They love the walks.

That's an important thing. They are nice walks. Look, consider from this angle, despite everything that's gone wrong for this team over the first 48 games of the season and take your pick. I'm not going to go through all of them, but despite everything that's gone wrong, they are still three points back of a very catchable Calgary team for the final playoff spot.

I got to credit Calgary. They are hanging in there. They are. They are. They're just, I mean, yeah, they're getting some great goal-turning, you're allowed to get great goal-turning. I didn't even think twice about saying the Flames

would miss the playoffs this season and they've done a great job hanging in there. They might be catchable, but here's the thing, they might not be caught by the Canucks. Well here's where I'll go back to. The race has not gotten any more compelling than the last time we checked in on it. St. Louis, who we will see tonight, is a very, very average hockey team. As a matter of fact, since Jim Montgomery took over and everyone thought he was going

to give him a shot in the arm and inject life into that team, they've been the exact same mid team that they were prior to him coming aboard. He's at 28 games behind the bench, they have 14 wins. They are the definition of a 500 hockey team. I know they're slightly above, because actually they're 14, 11, and three.

If you add the 11 to the three, that's 14 losses. Like they are a very average team and Utah can't get out of its own way. Every time it looks like they're about to stack some wins together, they go back to losing. So I look at it and you're, and I'm not going to count Seattle or Anaheim in the mix. So despite everything has gone wrong for the

Canucks, I do still think that everyone in the organization priority number one is, can we get this thing right? Can we salvage this season and can we get back to the playoffs for a second consecutive year? I think the fear of not going. Can we just take a step back here. Yes.

And ponder the question, what the hell happened to this team? Can we just do that? Sure. Because right now we're talking about next season, possibly the Canucks not having Pedersen, Miller, Besser and Demko. That's the situation we're in right now. And if you guys are kind of speechless with this, I get it. we're in right now. And if you guys are kind of speechless with this, I get it.

But it just, it's shocking. I know it's the Canucks and I know we can't have nice things, but it's very possible that most, if not all four of those players that I mentioned will not be back next season. not all four of those players that I mentioned will not be back next season. It was not that long ago that we were all gathered watching these Canucks in the playoffs and going, man, I got a game seven against the Oilers.

This core has finally arrived. This core has finally figured out the leadership group. They've been empowered. They've been empowered. And now the leadership group, like one guy, the captain is like, I feel responsible for everything that's happened here.

And the other two guys, uh, Miller and Pedersen who are again, they wear letters. Like they're part of the leadership group. They're on the trading block. And a lot of people seem to think that one of the big reasons they are is because they're fighting with each other. Like this is, you know, we've seen things go pair

shaped for this Canucks team in the past, but this is, this, this might really take the cake, the way things are going. And here's, uh, we're talking about Elias Pedersen, a guy who looked so dynamic last season in the first half of the season. And then the cadets signed him to a massive contract extension. Hasn't been the same player since. Like, but they're working on it.

They practiced yesterday. They're working on it. What is, what has happened to this team? Do you want me to give you the optimists look at this? The glass half full look. What has happened to this team? What has happened to this team? Do you want me to give you the optimist's look at this? The glass half full look? Is that this team has gone through the same complete crisis that the New York Rangers went through

and that somehow by the grace of God, they'll work their way out of it. That core gets more of a benefit of the guys. I'm not saying, and look, I know Eastwood is probably throwing stuff at us. He already criticized me for comparing one team to another team when I did the Colorado Avalanche earlier. Yeah, stop comparing other teams. Just talk about this team right now. Could this management group be looking at this core and be like, well, it's not our core.

We didn't put this- It is their core. They signed Miller. They signed Pedersen. As far as drafting and developing, but they're like, well, give them a chance. Last year was their chance, but we don't believe that this is the core that can get it done and we have to make changes. I'm just saying is that maybe the angle they're going for. I would love to know what happened in their minds

from going, we're going to give this guy the biggest contract in franchise history to, we got to get rid of this guy. It's got to be the noise, man. It's got, it's got to be that whatever's been happening with this team this year behind the scenes that has to be. Well, what do you mean it's the noise?

How about his play? How about his play on the ice? Sure, but I think that's all linked. It's all one big thing and whatever's happening with this team right now, they're like, we got to make a change. Something's wrong here, we got to change it. But I guess that's, like like if you had, if we had

Jim Rutherford on the show, and we'd love to have him by the way, if you're listening, Jim, come on the show. He's not listening. Like isn't the first question not like what's going on here or why can't you guys get slot chances or what do you think about the goalie situation?

Isn't the first question just like, what the hell happened? Yeah. You know what my first question would be is actually in light of what we were just talking about. Would it be what the hell happened? Yeah. You know, my first question would be is actually in light of what we were just talking about. Would it be what the hell happened? No, it'd be, is it our-

Talk about the St. Louis Blues. Do you regret the Pedersen signing? I would ask them, do you think this season is salvageable? I would ask them what the hell happened. I would ask them about the Pedersen signing. I'm more interested in what happens over the next 40 games, as opposed to what's happened previously. Cause right now they're at a borderline inflection point with the trades that

they're considering the contracts that are on the horizon and the fact that they are right on the precipice of either being in the playoffs or missing after getting back in last year and getting all the good vibes and all the good emotion back in the city. I would say is this season salvageable in your eyes? Because if it is, then you're talking about a trade that probably doesn't involve futures, but it's probably apples for apples, probably is more of a win now or a quote unquote hockey trade. If it's not, then you open up the possibility of, well, if we're going to move off one of these guys,

why not move off two or three or four? I think, with all due respect, I think it's a much bigger picture thing than the rest of this season. We're talking about the next five or six years of this team, if they decide to trade Miller and Pedersen, the plan completely changes. And I haven't even talked about the likelihood of whether or not they're going to be able

to keep Quinn Hughes. Okay. Before we go to break, I need to tell you about two things. One, Denny's True North Taste the Weights with Denny's 100% Canadian beef burgers made with new shredded iceberg lettuce on a brioche bun and all the classic ingredients you love.

Two, I need to tell you about the big football party at the Clayton Public House hosted by us, Sportsnet 650. Visit theclaytonpub.com for more Clayton Public House, good food, good people, good times. You're listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd. And Thomas Drance.

Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to two on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. 733 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. Halford and Brough of the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking

for, sales, financing, service, or parts parts we are in our two of the program our two is brought to you by Jason hominuk from Jason dot mortgage if you love paying too much for your mortgage then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect more for perfect mortgage for you visit him online at Jason dot mortgage I think I have been very unclear in trying to explain things this morning, which is problematic for a radio host. So whose fault is that? Mine.

Yeah, okay. I was trying to compare earlier the Canucks to the Avalanche of a couple years ago, only to show that teams can go through major renovations in a two year span, like real quick, right? That kind of got muddled. And then someone, I think it was JD J-Dog, the Car Hog, one of my favorite textures suggested that I woke up today, totally fine and brimming

with optimism and positivity about the season. Did I give away, did that what I did last segment? Well, it just seems like you're focused on the rest of this season more than you are on the big picture of the team. And for me, the big picture has taken over from the day to day. Yeah, no, I mean, that's totally valid. Yeah, yeah.

I don't think, it's hard not to look at the fact that they're ready to trade almost everybody. Like what I really enjoyed about last season was that we were able to get into a game by game basis. I'm out of that now. Like the Canucks won on Saturday. They sure did. They won on Saturday. Like, you know. That's what I'm saying. That was kind Like the Canucks won on Saturday. They sure did. They won on Saturday.

Like, you know. That's what I'm saying. That was kind of the point I was getting at. With, no, but for me, that's like, who cares? Like they're trying to trade JT Miller and Elias Pedersen. You did spend a long time breaking down, like, you know, shots generated from the slot, right?

That's a game to game thing. That's not a big picture thing. I'm intellectually curious. Well, there's that part of it, but for me. And I'm curious about Rick Taukett's side of all this because we talked about how Miller might not be back, Pedersen might not be back, Besser might not be back, Demko might not be back.

There's a very small, there's a very significant possibility that Rick Taukett might not be back. Well, I'm very curious to get the thoughts of our next guest, Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and Ingoll Magazine. Our presentation of White Rock Hyundai joins us now on the Haliford and Brev show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Kevin. How are you?

I'm good. It's a good thing I have White Rock Hyundai to go to and cheer me up because I feel like I'm walking into a den of negativity. What's going on here? As you said, you're coming off a win. Are we not excited? Are we actually, is this mean that Bruff is on Team Durant from a year ago, blow it all up?

Well, you know what? I do like to, I framed it as I was being accused of being positive. How dare you? Like, I mean, look, I get what you're saying, Bruff. I'm pointing at Bruff right now. But I think that figuring out what they want to do for the second half of the season is very much a big picture view of it.

I just feel like they're at an inflection point right now with all these trades floating around. Elliot Friedman going on national television on Saturday and saying he thought that Leas Pettersson was headed to Carolina. Like it feels like it's gonna go one way or the other. Either you pull it together for this season and you give it the old college try or you make these big bold moves where all of a sudden the direction of the franchise

takes a totally different course. Okay, you're looking at it, Ruff, are you talking to me? What's your question? Okay, I'm with you on, it can't continue as is. I understand why he's looking big picture. Because even after nights like the other night where they take the NHL leading Washington Capitals

and beat them two to one, like there's still too much under the hood that just doesn't pass the smell test that just isn't gonna work moving forward. So I'm kinda on team rough with this one. Like I think I understand the desire to, to look big picture because on a game by game basis, yeah, there's moments like that and they've had a few, but even, you know, even in that one, right?

Like the caps weren't at their best. They were still in the game. They still, the underlying numbers, Vancouver generated too high danger shots in that game. Like two, less than two expected goals. And that's become the norm. And that doesn't, even if you pull off some wins because your defense is excellent and you run into some teams that,

you know, I mean, where I think we're at that point now where they're starting to run into teams that are kind of like, they're not looking past them like they did at the start of last season, but they're certainly making decisions like, Hey, Logan Thompson's the best goalie in the league. We're not going to start them. We're going to break our rotation and give Charlie Lindgren this one. Um, so I think big picture I'm with sort of bigger decisions need to be made because how it is right now, just, you know, I, it's just not working and it's hard to see a turnaround,

even after a win, uh, as dramatic as the one required to actually have it mean anything. Do you see that your Demko re-signing with the Canucks? Well, I think it's too early for that. Do I see the Canucks offering him eight and a quarter, which is what the market rate is for a guy of his talent level. And I fully expect him to get back to displaying that level at some point. I can't tell you when.

I think you just have to look at how long it took Jeremy Swainman to find his game and then do the math on how much harder Thatcher's road back to this has been than Jeremy, Miss Camp and preseason. Thatcher missed his entire off season and two months of the, it's like trying to catch a moving train and the more I look at it, I'm not trying to make excuses, but I've got some empathy there for how hard this must be. We know what the talent level is. So I expect him to get back to that. The question becomes given all the time missed over the last number of years,

or the Canucks willing to go to eight and a quarter, cause that's going to be the market rate. Um, whether he wants to be back or not, you start to hear rumblings about whether they feel they can, they can trust that. So I I'm not sure. And I think judging it based on right now Probably isn't fair to him and isn't representative of what he is and can be I just can't tell you how long until we get that back and because of the fight for a playoff spot They're in you know, like is anyone expecting anyone other than Kevin Lankin and tonight in st. Louis? Probably not. So

other than Kevin Lankin and tonight in St. Louis? Probably not. So, um, you know, that's where we're at. Like it's really tough too, because they're so bad at the start of games. And I think that was the case even in Washington. Like this is the one thing that Kevin Lankin and has done for them is bail them out early and allow them to either stay in games and find their feet or, you know, in the case of Washington, get to Queen Hughes brilliance and some screens and hang on. Uh, the hardest part for Demco is cause it's funny. I thought it looked like something might've clicked in the Edmonton game, like in the second period, all of a sudden it was like the movement, the side to side, the laterals, uh, the early eyes

leading the vision leading, like there was something I was like, Hey, hold, hold, hold. I was looking at the team. I'm like the Leonardo DiCaprio meme, right? Like, I'm like, Oh, I know that guy. I'm like, Hey, like sometimes it all takes is like that one moment, that one thing to click. The problem for Demko is it's five nothing by that point. And the way this team starts games, like he can't, it takes rhythm and timing, take time to find after this long an absence. And by the time he finds it in a game, it's five, nothing. So, um, yeah, that's, that's a really tough one.

And, you know, I've been critical at times, uh, you know, wondered about the process, wondered about all the other things that have changed around him. Um, in addition to all the time he's missed, but at the end of the day, uh, I think you have to grant a little grace. It just, just how hard this probably is for him and how hard it is for any goalie to come back off an absence like that. And again, we're starting to see Swainman pick up

his power, Swainman in Boston of late, and all he did was miss camp and look how long that took. Is there any more gossip on the goalie chat thread? No, no, no, no gossip. I've been shut out of the gossip thread. No, no. But boy does this team, you know, I don't know if you got into the numbers, but you said you might be talking some offense and boy do they not make

it easy on their goalies. I go back to a conversation I had in the Meeker Kiprasoff era of the Calgary Flames around the league with goalies? I go back to a conversation I had in the Meeker Kiprsoft era of the Calgary Flames around the league with goalies. And it sort of fueled how I think about teams that can't score ever since. And it was the question I used to ask you guys was, would you rather be in Calgary with Kipr

where under Darrell Sutter, and they went to a cup final this way, they didn't give up anything. But you knew one or two might be one or two too many right like it didn't matter like great defense but you made a mistake they weren't gonna bail you out or do you rather be on a team that plays it a little loose but hey they can get you three or four even if you know if you make mistakes and to a man when I asked that question around the league and

usually everyone from time to time I will revisit it with guys coming into town. They all said, yeah, inherently as a goal you want a great defense, but give me the team that can score. Give me the team where I don't have to go into the game with the pressure of one or two being one or two too many. And when you look at the offensive and the generation that this team has or does not have, like that's where we're at. I keep looking at these nights

where the expected goals are consistently below two. We've had a couple where it's below one, which you just never see, where it's like one or two high danger chances. And then I looked into the numbers after texting with you last night, Jason, and it's just like, you know, I think you've done slot shots or passes into the slot.

Well, ClearSight doesn't measure passes in, but slot shots or passes into the slot. Well, clear sight doesn't measure passes in, but slot shots in general, 30 seconds. Slot line, the one that really matters across the middle, 28th. Screens, the one that I've been going about, like, hey, cause they can work, like Quinn Hughes' second one, that was the one. You hit that top corner through a layered screen.

That goes in more often than a breakaway, but it's not easy to do. And guess what? When you're 30th in the league in screenshots you're probably not getting enough of them. Rebounds, 28th in the league. That speaks to not getting tucks and bodies to the net, not having guys willing to fight to that area. Something Tauke had focused on in practice yesterday. One-timers, 25th. Hey, deflections, they're 10th. Clear sighted shots and honestly you don't want to leave the league in this because these are the ones the goalies stop like 99% of the time.

They're 29th. Broken plays, scrambles, pucks that hit legs and sticks in front and lead to chaos, 31st again speaks to an inability or an unwillingness to get to those areas consistently enough. And that's not just its bodies, but it's also funneling pucks there and it doesn't always have to be from the point or taking pucks to the net again another thing that talk it's talked about of late breakaways 31st like it's it's not pretty offensively right now and it wasn't that here's the thing it wasn't that bad they're 25th and five on five expected

goals for 25th in the rush, 12th in zone overall. But all of those numbers crater. And this is, I couldn't figure out like, where do I delineate? Where do I start? So I went JT coming back and JT leaving, you know, those numbers were like. The rush stuff hasn't been there all year, despite their best efforts. And I think their focus on it in training camp was a problem because it put the focus of this team in the wrong spot.

They don't have the personnel for it, especially on the backend getting the puck up to start rush. So they've been, they've been in the bottom third of the league of that throughout, but you know, they were fifth before JT leaves in five on five chances for they were third in zone. They're 15th on the, like all these numbers that have cratered before that leave of absence were all trending in the right direction. They started down and then after he comes back the bottom just falls out. So I know you talked about

where him and Pedersen, I believe you talked about where they rank in terms of getting pucks to the middle, you know passes into the slot for shots. But the reality is since JT left on that lead this team has just fallen off a cliff offensively. The defense has picked up, but like I said, in the Kipberstaff argument, that's not enough. So is your conclusion the noise then? Like this team just doesn't have the jump or what is going on? Because there seems to be a clear debate going on

and some people are in the players got to play better, especially their top dogs like Miller and Pedersen and other people are on. This is entirely the system. This is entirely Rick Tuckett not putting his players in positions to succeed. Do you lean, like I lean on the players got to play better angle, obviously.

I'm not taking Tuckett's responsibility out of this, but that's where I lean on the, the player's got to play better angle, obviously. I, I'm not taking Tuckett's responsibility out of this, but that's where I lean. Where do you lean? No, I mean, I, I don't think you can completely take the blame off anyone when it's that bad. Like I think everybody has to look at themselves when it's that bad. You know, and I said this on Friday with

Drentz, like, um, that includes management in terms of, you know, how they've built that some of the guys they add as much as they bring certain elements, you know, are they a little light when it comes to all those things we just talked about getting into, we've heard talk it used that phrase light getting into those dangerous areas, being winning, willing to win the battles, get to that space and, and get to a secondary pot, get to a rebound chance. So you're not 28 in the league. Um, so it goes back to that coaching, you know, appearing to cut the

corner financially on some of the assistant coaching decisions right down to the American league. Um, you know, there are elements there, but I primarily look at the player. Let me talk it, you know, practice yesterday. If you read Jeff Patterson's tweets and saw some of the questions after, you know, I pretty much split defense and offense and the defense was about breakouts and getting the puck out. And the offense was about all the things we just talked about, like not

deferring back to the point every time. I mean, when the coach is talking about there's place to be made into the middle, into the slot, whether it's passes or actively just taking the puck there and that we would defer too much to the top. Like that's the other thing that going, if you're willing to go there only after you've passed the puck to the top, you effectively clog it because you dragged the defense with you, right? You bring five, they're five into that box, into that slot area.

Like you're not spreading them out at all and by consistently and constantly deferring up to the top of the ice and then even if you do go to the net, clogging it up, like you're kind of eliminating some of the space you're hoping to open. I know we talked about passers-in to the slot, like I think the fact they haven't figured out a power play bumper is a massive part of that as well. Like they just haven't had it since bow and they haven't tried to establish it. I think there are questions to be asked. I heard them on the post game show talking about offensive zone starts for

their best offensive players. Fair questions. But to me at the end of the day, it comes down to the players and something's clearly changed there. Uh, there are too many nights where the effort just isn't good enough. Kev enjoyed the game tonight. Thanks for joining us. Well, how can I now with all that positivity that I just spewed for you? Yeah. I'll try.

Slot shots. Slot shots. A quick trip to Hawaii Rockhound this afternoon. They have free coffee and it's great. They just take care of you there. So I'll find my happy Woody. Enjoy, Kevin. Have a good one, buddy.

Bye. Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and Engel Magazine here on the Haliford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Did you just say I'll find my happy Woody? He will find his happy Woody. Okay, I'm just checking. Just wanna make sure. He is a presentation of White Rock Hyundai.

Hey, Jason, you know what it's time now for? Are you excited for this? This is a new thing, isn't it? It's a new feature on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. It is time now for Case of the Mondays, brought to you by Coors Light. What, a case of the Mondays?

Yeah, a case of the Mondays. What's that? That's someone who had a tough weekend in the world of sports and is going either to work or in the case of the Buffalo Bills not to work today with a case of the Mondays. I would say if we have to pick a candidate for the case of the Mondays, it would just go to Buffalo sports fans.

Fair. Imagine waking up this morning and realizing all that you got left is the Sabres season. What a season it's been. The one thing that strikes me about Buffalo, especially the Bills, okay. Let's talk about the Bills here. Yep.

For how long were they in like the same, how long did the New England Patriots dynasty last? Two decades. Two decades. Right. So they were in that same division as the Patriots. And it was always felt like the other teams in the AFCs didn't have a chance, you know? The Jets kind of had a few opportunities, but you

know, the Bills and the Dolphins, they were just, all three of those teams were constantly under the thumb of the New England Patriots. Well, now the Kansas City Chiefs are the Patriots to the Bills, right? They're not in the Bills, right? They're not in the same division, but four times in the last little while, the Chiefs have

eliminated the Bills from the playoffs. So you've got decades of the Patriots owning them, and then that nice and smoothly transitions over to the, to a new decade where the Kansas City Chiefs own them. This is also a team and a franchise that is best known for losing four straight Super Bowls. So there was a time when the Super Bowls owned them.

Right? If I felt awful for the Bills yesterday. I think they got screwed on a call big time and I'm not a guy that calls out the refereeing much but I'm watching that game like that's a first down he got it. He got it and you see the referees mark it you're like you didn't walk a straight line when you're marking the ball. And, you know, I don't know, I'm not a big conspiracy guy. Sometimes referees just make mistakes, but it sure seems like a lot of the mistakes go the chief's way. So I, in particular, when we're doing this like case of the Monday's

thing, I think the guy that might feel worse than anybody else today is Josh Allen. Because I don't think that Josh Allen could have done an awful lot more than what he did yesterday. Played extremely well. 237 yards passing, two touchdowns, 39 yards on the ground, 11 carries. The throws to Mack Holland's deep, especially that one before halftime where it looked like that game might be getting away from Buffalo. The biggest difference right now between those Buffalo teams that were always under the thumb of the Patriots

and this team is that this Bill's team is good and close. So close. The Bills have 78 wins over the last six seasons, including the playoffs. So there was a stat going around yesterday. It's the most ever by any team in NFL history without getting to a Super Bowl. So you could actually say that this Bill's team

is as good and as close as you can physically get to a Super Bowl without actually getting to a Super Bowl. That to me is more frustrating. When you look at the Sabres, they haven't really even been close. They've been in the basement, they've been in the constant rebuild, they've been terrible, they've never really been close to

even being like a fringe playoff team, let alone a contender. Their most exciting moments have been at the draft. Right. And a couple trades and the occasional free agent bust. This Bill's team is as close to elite as you can get without being elite. And that's probably what's the most frustrating.

You look at that game yesterday, and by a lot of metrics, they did everything you need to do to win a football game. In terms of the traditional turnover battle, they actually won it. They didn't turn the ball over unless you count turnovers on downs, which was a whole nother situation. But they did a lot of really good things.

There's one team that the Buffalo Bills can't beat, and it's the Kansas City Chiefs. And until they figure out how to beat them, there's gonna be more Cases of the Mondays for them. Do you like what I did there? Yeah. That's not bad. Case of the Mondays brought to you by Coors Light.

Go to CoorsLight.ca, Case of the Mondays, to see the Coors Light Case of the Mondays with to you by Coors Light. Go to CoorsLight.ca, Case of the Mondays to see the Coors Light Case of the Mondays with specially marked limited edition Monday Light packaging. Scan the QR code on your case to win a trip for two to the 2026 big game event in California. No purchase necessary, must be legal. Drinking Age brought to you by Coors Light. We're gonna talk to Andy Strickland next from St. Louis.

So we'll talk a little bit about the blues, but, uh, Andy's also pretty dialed in, uh, with leak sources. And so we'll talk about, uh, the big trade that did occur over the weekend. And we'll ask Andy what he's heard about the situation in Vancouver and what might be to come for the Canucks.

I know a lot of you listening are probably getting pretty frustrated with hearing all these reports like the Canucks are going to do something, something's going to happen and then nothing happens to the point where a lot of people think we're just making it all up. That is not true, but you're not going to believe that anyway.

So we'll talk to Andy about what the Canucks might do, but you know, probably won't happen. Coming So we'll talk to Andy about what the Canucks might do, but you know, probably won't happen. Coming up next on the Alfred and Bref Show on Sportsnet 650.