Halford & Brough in the Morning - Is Joey Votto A Hall Of Famer?

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

In hour one, Jason Brough and guest host Josh Elliott-Wolfe look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), plus they talk Joey Votto's retirement announcement & other baseball stories with MLB Network's Adnan Virk (26:57). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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6 a.m. on a Thursday. It is Halford and Brough. No Halford for a couple more days. It's still Josh Elliott-Wolfe here with Jason Brough. Good morning. Good morning. A-Dog,

good morning. Good morning. Laddie, good morning. Hello, hello. I'm trying to sneak in a Simpsons reference every intro just for you.

Yeah, and I've gotten none of them. That's okay. Halford and Brough is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today, and you can text in 650-650, the Dunbar Lumber text line.

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Kintec, that's what you're waiting for. Today on the show, another full show. 630 Adnan Burke MLB Network in the Cinephile Pod. I want to talk to him about Shohei Otani. He is all but certain to join the 4040 Club, and he's going to do it much sooner than anybody else has. I feel like Joey Votto is the first name that I want to discuss with Adnan,

and we'll get into that with what happened. But my question for Adnan is, is Joey Votto a Hall of Famer? And I think that's a debate that's going to be had over the next little while, considering what happened yesterday. Do you think that's a debate that's going to be had over the next little while considering what happened yesterday. Do you think it's a debate? I guess we could get into that.

7 o'clock, Charlie O'Connor covering the Flyers for Philly Sports. We'll talk about the Ryan Johansson situation and everything going on with the Flyers. 7.30, Steve Young, Wally Little League head coach. They were at the Little League World Series back now, but we'll talk to him about the experience. His son was on the team, kind of how that was, how special that was, and just the overall experience of being at the Little League World Series.

And at 8 o'clock, Thomas Drance covering the Canucks for the athletic and co-host of Canucks Talk. So working in reverse, 8 o'clock, Thomas Drance, 7.30, Steve Young, Wally Little League head coach. 7 o'clock, Charlie O'Connor to talk Flyers and 6.30, Adnan Virk will talk Joey Votto. He's of the MLB Network and the Cinephile Pod. That's what's happening on the show. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night?

No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance,

making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit bccsa.ca. So we mentioned it. Joey Votto. We played it in the intro. 10 seconds on Instagram. He goes on, posts a video, says, I'm done playing baseball. I officially retire.

And it feels very sudden, but Joey Votto is now retired. So what was your reaction when you heard this? We'll include Laddie in this. Laddie's wearing a Blue Jays top. I know Joey Votto, he was a Cincinnati Red, right? But I think the story that everyone was hoping for this season is that Joey Votto would go out in his hometown playing for the Toronto Blue Jays. And when the Cincinnati Reds came to

town just recently, I think a lot of people wondered, will he get an at-bat? Will they call him up? Will he get an opportunity? He didn't. Some people were angry about that, but by the sounds of it, by the sounds of what Joey Votto had to say, he didn't really Some people were angry about that, but by the sounds of it, by the sounds of what Joey Votto had to say, he didn't really want it unless he deserved it. And that's kind of the biggest thing is you look at the timing of it and you're like, well, did he, was he waiting to see if he would get a call up because he retired right when the series against the Reds was over? Yeah. Was there a reason for that? And it did seem like that. Well, I think there was a reason for that and it did seem like that well i think there was a reason for it he wanted to say goodbye to his teammates and he still considers the reds his team you know like that's his team um but also it's i i'm sure he was pushing to potentially return for this series

as much as he could and the thing that he has been very firm on throughout his entire blue jays tenure has been that he only wants to get a call-up if he deserves the call-up and he's smart enough to know if he deserves the call-up or not um and his numbers to be fair were bad in buffalo and so i think for him he could play for the se Mariners. Like that's... He'd be their best bat. That's how bad his numbers were. Yeah, they were really, really rough. And from everything, there's an article up on sportsnet.ca from Shai Davidi.

And basically everything that he has from Votto in there kind of makes it seem like he was very aware and kind of felt like the game was passing him by to an extent 41 yeah it'll happen it'll happen um so it's it comes as a surprise but i think for him it's probably not that much of a surprise based on what he's been going through for the last few months yeah just so we as we all predicted right his career would end filming a video in a Buffalo parking lot. That's probably not how he thought he'd end up, but.

Happens to him. But, you know, that's Joey Votto, right? Like, Joey Votto is, he's a different cat. And there are times when, you know, I don't, what is, like, here's the thing, Laddie, like, you're a Hamilton guy. For me, like, the guy, the Canadian baseball player was Larry Walker because he was from Maple Ridge.

Joey Votto was appreciated by me and I think appreciated by a lot of people in BC, but he was Ontario's guy. Does this make sense? And he wasn't't like I'm looking at his stats right now. He played 11 postseason games in his career. Right? So

it was tough in a lot of ways unless you're a real hardcore baseball fan that like loves this stuff and loves the story of Joey Votto to really I don't want to say get to know Joey Votto but to really, I don't want to say get to know Joey Votto, but to really have him top of mind as a sports fan in Vancouver. Maybe a little different on Ontario?

Well, for the first half of his career, he had a bit of a prickly reputation, right? He wasn't really known as being Mr. Friendly, even after his MVP award. I think the last half of his career he made a conscious effort to i think you know play to the media a little bit more and go along with the games a bit more i think maybe he just reached a point in his career where he thought you know what do i have to lose by you know starting to act nice to people and i think he saw that he was going to be kind of a cusp hall of fame guy and he knew that if you buttered up the media a little bit he might get put over the edge and actually make the Hall of Fame.

So it was kind of a story of two careers almost for Votto, with the first half being sort of standoffish. Even with Baseball Canada, he was a little standoffish for a while. And then he kind of softened up and became the lovable nice guy that we all know him as. But he was still like the lovable nice guy though, but when he did those things, there was still a bit of an edge yes like his humor was like like he did that famous interview with mad dog where he kind of put

on an act like uh you know like i heard you were saying i'm the hall of very good and for the first bit you're watching that i was like oh is he is he like mad here and then as the bit went on and i don't know maybe we can play that audio if we've got it later but um or you can just go google it then you realize oh he's just having fun here and mad dog loved it and everything and and it was just kind of a bit but he had that sense of humor that was a little bit off. Is that fair to say? Yeah, and you can see it on his social media too at times. Oh, just the way he retired.

Just the way he retired was like, all right. Is that supposed to be like, is he mad? Is he mad? So all of yesterday, I think a lot of people were wondering, you know, is he mad that he never got a chance? Is he kind of leaving in a huff? Like, what's going on here? Because everyone connected the dots. It's like, you know, the Red Series had just ended.

He didn't get his chance. Now he's out in the parking lot saying, I retired. Like, is he mad about this? And I think it became obvious that if there's anyone he was mad at, it was, you know, father time that he couldn't, you know, find his game and he didn't really deserve a shot. And he didn't, he didn't want that token at bat. I still want to know. I still want to know from the Blue Jays perspective. Like I want someone from the Blue Jays

organization to walk us through this like just be like hey did you did you ask him if he wanted an at bat like how did that

go down did you consider it at all but you know from from what Joey Votto had to say he had no bitterness

towards the Blue Jays or anything he was just upset that he couldn't find his game at the Major League level in order to deserve a call-up. I think the big thing for him, he left Buffalo after the game to go to Toronto to actually meet with the media and meet with his former teammates.

And I think maybe that was his game plan the whole time, was he wished he was up with the Jays already, played in this series, and then could have retired as a Blue Jay, and then done all the meetings with the media, because this is the only time Cincinnati media is going to be up in this area. Yeah. So he wanted to obviously meet with those people, talk with those people at the end of his career, but it just happened in a weird way where he was in AAA still, and then had

to retire, drove up from Buffalo, and then met with the media and everyone. Have you got that interview you did with Matt Dunn? Yes. Let's play this, because this is how when is this from i retweeted on my account uh um last night i'd actually never seen it but apparently a lot of people had um i have no idea when this is from but it's pretty funny a couple of months ago you said that zach grinky and I are a hall of very good ballplayers. I think Zach and I would agree. You may be right. But I get the gist of what's going on here. I know what you're doing. You're looking down on us. A couple small market Midwest ballplayers just because we're not big

city just like you. Mr. New York City Sirius XM radio star. Mr. National Television, ESPN star. With your Fifth Avenue ties and your crisp pocket squares. Your tailored suits and your polished shoes. And your hair. Your perfectly coiffed Broadway hair. Must be nice to sit atop that Madison Avenue ivory tower. Looking down on us with those luscious locks. Not everyone can be the next Roger Peckinpah, Mad Dog.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You're a disgrace. I mean, so I don't know who was with Mad Dog, but his co-host, she was sitting there with like a look of like, oh, what's going on here? This was from July of last year. July of last year, yeah. At any rate, it was very funny. A very unique personality in Joey Votto has retired.

He is a Hall of Famer, right? Yeah, I think so. To me, it's like, and maybe it's the Canadian of it all in me, but to me, it's not really a question because he like he has the mvp and then for i think it's like four other years he was top 10 for mvp and received mvp votes in other years as well and was often an all-star he had a gold glove mixed in there too age of analytics too they'll have a lot more respect i think the writers that are voting for the Hall of Fame

will understand what made Votto so good, which I don't think would have happened in the years past. Maybe in the 70s, 80s, he doesn't get in. Are you guys, is it, I mean, no Hall of Fame baseball career is sad, but is it disappointing that he never really got to play in a big game? What was the biggest game he played in?

I forget how far the Reds even went when they went to the playoffs. The most playoff games he played in a year was five. I don't know. I guess in baseball I feel like it happens so much more frequently that really good players

just never do anything in the playoffs. No, but like his team sucked. Sure. Right? He chose to re-up there. Yeah. Throughout his career. So you can't really blame, oh, he played for the Reds.

Well, like I said, he chose to go back. He chose, but I mean, I'm sure he wasn't like expecting them to be. I mean, when he chose, he was probably like, hey, do you think we could get better? You know what I mean? They were chose, he was probably like, hey, do you think we could get better? You know what I mean? They were like, yeah, for sure, we'll do it. And it didn't happen. I don't know.

I don't know if it's too disappointing. Ideally, yes, he would have liked to see him on another team and have an actual chance at it. But it's the same conversation, I think, with Mike Trout that we're having right now, where it like this is this was his choice yep and we can all tell that the angels are run poorly and for a long time the reds were run poorly and that's just kind of you chose to stay there so uh i love vancouver um dunbar lumber text line 650 650 here's a few uh texts that we received. This is boring.

I'm falling asleep. Talk more hockey. And another one. Who is Joey Votto and what is baseball? And also, Pumpkin Spice lattes are back. Let's go. Oh, someone texted that in? That's important.

Okay, well. It's too early for that. What's going on here? It's 9 September. And I love Pumpkin Spice. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. It's crazy.

Too early. You are the seasonal stuff expert yeah really cozy cozy anything cozy is i mean wait a minute is a pumpkin spice latte is that yes that's cozy right oh absolutely i'm more of a uh like i'm not uh sipping that with a nice blanket on and like a and a fireplace how about a grilled cheese oh dude don't even get me started. I haven't had breakfast yet. The Ian Clark news did hit Vancouver pretty hard yesterday. The news broke yesterday during our show. What's going to happen today?

It's been two days of just, look at us go. IMAC came off his vacation to write an article on this. And here's a sample of what iMac wrote, and you can read the whole article on sportsnet.ca. Here is what we know. Earlier this summer, Ian Clark went to Patrick Alveen with a proposal to remove himself from daily coaching duties. Now, that was not in the press release yesterday,

but IMAC is reporting it. So it wasn't, this isn't something that happened like, you know, last week or anything. All there was was the asks. Yeah, he came to us, right? So it was earlier this summer. I've been told it was a couple months ago. IMAC goes on.

The request was at least partly driven by chronic knee and shoulder problems that Clark endures. Injuries not uncommon for coaches and former goalies who have devoted their lives to the position. Management has a strong belief in Terenius, that is the new goalie coach, who helped develop key goaltending prospect Artur Silovs. He was also Shosturkin's goaltending coach? Correct. In the KHL. In the KHL. Okay.

IMAC goes on. As of Wednesday afternoon, the Canucks were close to finalizing a deal for Torinius' replacement with the Abbotsford Canucks. Okay. Although Clark had his director of goaltending title removed, management is expected to lean on him beyond his new scouting duties. And I think this is the key part here from IMAC.

He says, what we don't know is where Clark will base himself, what other factors contributed to his request, request for reassignment and what his future will be with the Canucks, um, beyond his current contract. Um, I've heard, yeah,

a few other things about maybe, um, Clark for whatever reason, uh, won't be in Vancouver full-time. Like he won't. And that's why IMAC is writing this. What we don't know is where Clark will base himself.

So the thing we said yesterday when there were a few people texting and saying like, this doesn't seem like a big deal. He's still with the organization. He can still help. It is. Because he's not going to be on the ice day to day with the Canucks goalies and I always and and Woodley agrees with me on this like this is not just me like bringing up um golf because I love golf but if you watch the golf channel sometimes a big story will be like Tiger Woods or one of the other big golfers has a new swing coach or he's moving on from this swing coach for whatever reason.

You know, maybe they had a falling out. Maybe, you know, the player isn't playing very well. He wants to do something. Or maybe the swing coach has injuries and he, you know, like he needs to move on. Or he needs a change. Needs a change, right? It's a big deal because, you know, the most famous swing coaches, you know, like you think about the guys that work with Tiger, a guy like Butch Harmon, right?

He helped Tiger in a lot of big ways become the Tiger Woods that he is, or he was, you know, and this hall of fame career. I'm sure this Terenius guy is a good goalie coach, but we don't know if he's going to have a good relationship with Factor Demko or if it's going to work. I'm sure he's going to have his own ideas about how the position is going to be played, right? Like every swing coach has his own ideas about, you know, how the golf swing should work.

So for me, this is just like, it's not the end of the world, but it just adds another unknown to the Thatcher Demko narrative of this season. And that narrative includes, right now, a new goalie coach, his injury, his health status, when he's going to be back, how it's going to look when he's back, whether or not he's going to be able to stay healthy. And then I would add to this narrative the decision the Canucks could theoretically make next offseason when they have the option to extend his contract.

Yeah, there's a lot that plays into it. And the thing about the goalie coach part of all of this is when you look at Marco Terranis, you're like, man, best case, you end up being Ian Clark. But there's a lot of area in between there. And so when you're going from someone who like it's a sure thing with ian clark so that's that is why it's a it's this this can't be interpreted as like not a big deal but with thatcher demko and and the um questions around him it's just like i said it yesterday

but this has long been the one position where canucks fans could look at and then be like okay that's stable. Don't have to worry about it. Everything else can be a concern, but Thatcher Demko is going to be good. Ian Clark's going to be there. This is fine. And now you look at it and there's all of a sudden, it's probably the area of the team where you have the most questions

going into the season. And that's not a familiar spot for Canucks fans to be in for the Canucks to be in and it'll be interesting to see how they adjust and how that kind of plays into training camp because one thing we've seen as well when there's been questions around Thatcher Demko has been that the Canucks at least in games tend to play a little bit more conservatively and so I wonder if this like and it probably won't, but I wonder if it changes how they approach trying to improve things offensively.

I was just thinking that. Yeah. I was thinking that because the narrative heading into the training camp this season was going to be, okay, they got the structure thing down. Yeah. Right? They met pressure with pressure, but now they're trying to take another step.

And that step, based on what happened in the playoffs last season, was going to be, okay, how can we create a little more offense off the rush? And Rick Tockett said, well, maybe, and this was at the end of last season, he said, yeah, I'm going to do a deep dive. I'm going to be doing some thinking about stuff. And maybe this training camp is more about creativity. Maybe it's more about how we can create more scoring chances. And if you don't have Thatcher Demko there, you're kind of like, maybe we should go over the structure stuff one more time.

Yeah, it does definitely throw um a wrinkle into things um i noticed last night just to uh end up uh end off uh what happened that uh jt miller was trending on social media and now for a while i got very used to jt miller trending on on social media it was like like every day he was trending. But last night, I was like, oh, what's going on? Do people want to trade him again? What's going on? He was trending because of some list that the NHL Network put out

with their top 20 NHL centers. I love these off-season lists. Oh, my God. This is what Moj talks about. He's like, I hate lists. They're so stupid. They just get people fired up for no reason. That's the point, yeah.

That is the point. And I don't want to break it to Canucks fans, but JT Miller is not considered a top 10 center by NHL Network. What? That's malarkey. I think we should probably cancel the season. It's brutal.

But here are the top 10 centers, according to NHL Network. JT Miller is at 11, so he nearly cracked it. Number one, Connor McDavid. Fine, we'll give him that. Nathan McKinnon is number two. Austin Matthews is number three. Leon Dreisaitl is number four. Austin Matthews is number three. Leon Dreisaitl is number four.

Alexander Barkov is number five. Anyone have a problem with those five going over JT Miller? Those guys are pretty good, right? Sidney Crosby. He's like a good player. Yeah. He's at number six. Number seven, Braden Point.

This is when some people might be like, I'd take JT Miller over Braden Point. I personally wouldn't, but I get. Jack Eichel coming in at number eight for the Vegas Golden Knights. Jack Hughes at number nine for the New Jersey Devils. And by the way, Nico Heischer was number 20.

I really disagree with that. I think he's better than that. Last season, not last, last season, the season before, he was number two in the really disagree with that. I think he's better than that. Last season, not last last season, the season before, he was number two in the Selkie Trophy voting. He's a really good player. Here's an interesting one.

Number 10, Elias Pettersson. So according to NHL Network, the Canucks have two very good centers. The 10th best in the league and the 11th best. That's good depth. First thing Petey says to Miller at the training camp is like, check out that NHL Network list, eh?

You see that? Rolls in with number 10. I'm changing my number to number 10. Sorry, Pavel. Makes JT a jerseyist number 11. At any rate, if you want to text in about this, we take these lists with a massive grain of salt. I know some people.

No, these are definitive. I know some people don't. They're like, it's outrageous. Somebody should be fired at NHL Network. No, this is the definitive list. It can't be debated. This is it. This is it.

The NHL Network, the gods of hockey have put it down. Adnan Virk is going to join us next for a little baseball talk. We'll talk about Joey Votto, who is, according to that texter, I didn't know who Joey Votto is. Joey Votto is a baseball player. He didn't know what baseball was either. He played for the Cincinnati Reds. He retired yesterday.

He's probably going to be in the Hall of Fame. Josh wants to talk to Adnan about Shohei as well. I'm not going to touch the Votto stuff. I'll Shohei. That's coming up next, but we'll have lots of hockey talk on this show. And don't forget, Thomas Trance is going to join us at 8 o'clock,

so we'll talk more about the situation with Ian Clark. You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Jam Pro, the leaders in commercial cleaning and janitorial. If your workplace demands a clean environment, contact Jam Pro for a free, no-obligation quote. Visit jampro.ca. It's time to chat with Adnan It's Adnan Berkey's on the show We're gonna talk some baseball

And take a trip to the silver screen That's right, it's time for Redman. Yes, and then Berkey joins us now. We'll head out to the ball game and talk about all the films he's seen. Welcome back to Alfred and

Brough. It is 6.33. Alfred and Brough brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest delari honda dealer today and you can keep your text coming in on the 650 650 dumb bar lumber text line get your what we learns in there but we go to the phone line now it is adnan burke regular on the show mlb network and the cinephile pod appreciate you taking the time adnan we will start with the Joey Votto news. Were you surprised yesterday when

he made the announcement, the 10-second announcement on Instagram? Yeah, I mean, it was really, honestly, it was surprising, but what I loved about it, honestly, Josh and Jason, is the fact that he was so understated and blunt. Like a nine-second video,

just like, that's it, I'm retiring. And then, Hey, I would have loved to play for the hometown team, but I'm just not good anymore. And he's right. When you look at his numbers in triple a, you know, 51 plate appearances, a buck 54 average. I mean, you're going to be hitting, you know, two 80 in triple eight to even get a reasonable sniff of the major league. So he was not within that. And I think that in some ways, maybe it's a missed opportunity.

You know, maybe the Blue Jays should have pushed him harder to say, hey, just one game wearing a Jays uniform. You're from Etobicoke, Ontario. The fans will get a kick out of it. Who cares? You go 0 for 4. It'll still be a nice moment. Now, maybe they offered it to him.

Havato said, no, I'm not going to be a sideshow. I'm not going to be submitted to sell tickets. I've got too much pride and dignity. And if I'm not the player I once was, then forget it. I'm not sure what exactly happened. Or maybe the offer wasn't even there, and they said, you're not good enough. We're not going to call you up. He said, okay, fine, I'm just going to go ahead and move on.

I don't know how it went down, but I think ultimately I respect Joey Votto's decision because there's nothing harder than looking in the mirror and saying, hey, I just don't have it anymore. I'm not what I used to be. And that's the decision he came to yesterday. So good for him. He had a heck of a career. I don't think he's a first-bound Hall of Famer. You look at his numbers,

he wasn't a 400-home-run guy. He didn't have 3,000 hits. But he had over 2,000 hits. He had 356 home runs. And he was incredible at getting on base. And if there's one thing about baseball is the whole play of the game is supposed to get on base. And he's up there with Ted Williams as far as in the post-World War II

era, the last 80 years of guys a high on base percentage, Votto was there. And the focus on walks rather than just batting average certainly will help Votto's pace. The air matricians love him. I don't think he gets in right away, but I think a third or fourth ballot, Joey Votto will be a Canadian Hall of Famer in

Cooperstown. Do you think we'll find out if the Jays offered him the opportunity? I hope somebody asks him, Jason. I'm with you. I hope somebody at some point just says to John Schneider or Ross Atkins, like, hey, just curious what happened. Because to me, that's a fairly straightforward answer. There's nothing to hide. You can say, yeah, we talked to Joey's camp.

He didn't want to do it. He's like, I'm not good anymore. I'm like, okay, cool. Or, no, we feel like, again, if they want to go on their high horse and say, no, I get the fact it's a lost season, but we are still trying to win baseball games and we're trying to evaluate our players for next year. So there's no point in Joey Votto being called up,

taking away an hour estimation, valuable at-bats from youngsters who are trying to prove themselves, Spencer Horowitz, Ernie Clement, Davis Shana, Will Wagner, et cetera. So I don't know if we'll get the answer. I hope somebody asks them. What do you think of when you see a baseball player like Joey Votto who had such a long career and, you know,

maybe not a first ballot Hall of Famer, but a Hall of Famer nonetheless, and then you look at his stats and realize he only played 11 postseason games. Yeah, that is a killer, Jason. I think that does hurt him overall in the Hall of Fame candidacy because there's no question that when you think of the player, you want to have those moments, those signature moments. And Bono doesn't have those because the Reds just weren't going to make the playoffs. And it's a shame because now, in the expanded playoff system, I am sure over the course of his

long career, the Reds would have backed him a couple of times and gotten the playoffs. Maybe he could have had that moment. When I think of Bryce Harper, I'll never forget that home run off Suarez. That was a defining moment last year in his career. They had a home run like that and what it did for the city of Philadelphia and for the Phillies, etc.

So Bono doesn't have that moment where all of Great American Ballpark went nuts. It was crazy. And, you know, it's a mid-market town. It's actually a great baseball city. And I've been to Great American Ballpark. It's a heck of a park. The ball flies. The humidity in the summer is crazy.

Like, they do love their baseball. The Red Legs have been around for over 100 years. So they know and appreciate their stars. But it's not the Dodgers, the Red Sox, the Yankees, etc. If Votto had played a bit in the market, he would have been a bigger player. And I think absolutely if he'd had more, any chance of playoff success, it would help his candidacy overall. Because that was almost the story with Larry Walker, right?

I think he had one playoff appearance with Colorado, but then he ended up on St. Louis when he was in his late 30s and went to the World Series. That was the World Series that most people were paying attention to because the Red Sox actually won one, but he was on the Cardinals for that series, and he played pretty well. Yeah, no, that's true. Sometimes that happens, too.

You think of a guy, and you go, Walker will always be a Rocky, but you're right. The Cardinals, he still had a couple good seasons, and a nice little playoff run will certainly help you. Sean Casey, one of my colleagues, was a lifetime hitter. I always think of him as a red. But I'm a Tigers in 2006. They may

have lost, but he raked. He hit.458 in the World Series. So when he puts his head down at night, he may not be all up there, but he knows that one chance I got, I was there. So it's unfortunate for Votto. He never got the chance that Clary did. In terms of personality, do you think we'll ever, well, maybe not ever

but how rare is someone like Joey Votto in the world of sports in general? So here's what I think is fascinating, Josh is that I think over the course of his career earlier on, people always said he was a great hitter but they just said he's kind of weird, he's kind of different, he's quirky you know they've used words like that and then by the end it was like no this guy's hysterical like he's awesome he's so funny he's a great team he's great

for the game etc so i'm always fascinated when that shift happens to go back to bryce harper earlier in his career i think he was judas cocky and arrogant and difficult and now he's by and large beloved it was a guy he's a gamer he's competitive he'sisty. He's ferocious. He's all those adjectives. So in the case of Votto, I think, you know, generally I have no use for social media while I'm on it. I do it as a necessary evil. But one of the few upsides of it is we did get to see Joey Votto's personality. And, like, he clearly embraced Instagram and doing a gritty dance and dressing up as a Mountie and going after my colleague, my dog, Russo, tongue-in-cheek last year. So, like, he really did show what a funny guy he is.

Again, it helps perpetuate the stereotype of Canadians being very funny and being of a wry sense of humor and all the rest of it. So I think he goes down as one of the better entertainers. And I hope, I don't know if he has any interest in doing media, but, God, I hope we hire him at MLB Network because he's obviously very funny and a very smart guy and very analytical so i i think julio vato will be successful anything he does but i would think for that personality a career in broadcasting seconds i wanted to ask you about shoey otani and last night uh another stolen base so all but certain to join the uh the 4040 club

and he's going to do it much quicker than it's been done in the past. How crazy has this season been for Otani? And it kind of like, it feels like we talk about it a lot, but it feels like we're kind of used to him doing these things already. It's remarkable, Josh. Like I think with Otani and Judge, we take them both for granted. You know, Judge last night, two more home runs. He's three away from his third career, 50 home run season. The guy's amazing.

The Yankees are first place team half came up in the Orioles. And then the Dodgers, the D backs, the Padres were creeping and they were getting close. There are two and a half games out. I'm like, Oh my God, this is legit.

And now the Dodgers are four games up and Otani remains an absolute beast. And it answers the question, how good would Otani be? If he just focused on one, if he was just a pitcher, what could he be? And if he was just a hitter, what could he be? And because of Tommy John, we're seeing what he is. He's just a hitter.

And it's incredible. Like, you know, Elie de la Cruz last night becomes the sixth player ever with a 20-60 season, 20 home runs and 60 stolen bases. He's a freak. But you expect it because de la Cruz is known for having power and speed. I never would have imagined my wildest dreams of Shohei Otani would be second in the National League in stolen bases.

That's insane. He does not have the body type of Vince Coleman where you're expecting this guy to steal bases. He's big and strong, and yet he's fast and can move like lightning. He's only been caught stealing four times. That's the other part. It's not like he's a high guy against Torrell. He's a high success rate. He's a smart base dealer in addition to being successful.

And the fact that he's 40-40 on the verge of and eventually he's going to be a 50-50 guy potentially, like if he has just a robust final six weeks of the season here, the fact he's even more than shouting this at the 50-50 is unheard of to me. So he's going to be the MVP. Judd should be the MVP. I know we've seen that movie before, but these guys are absolute superstars,

and they've been there for their teams once again. Is Otani the greatest overall athlete to ever play the game? He's certainly in that conversation, Jason, because when you start to think of other people, like, again, we always draw the comp to Babe Ruth, but Babe Ruth was not pitching and hitting simultaneously. Like, Babe was a hitter. I don't know how many stolen bases he had either.

Yeah, exactly. When we're looking at speed, we're going to be knocking down the Babe with chomping on hot dogs as he's rounding first base. But that's the thing. Like, the Babe was a great pitcher and a great hitter. He didn't have the speed. You know, you can look at a Willie Mays, let's say,

right. Okay. He was an incredible athlete. Of course could do all those things, but he couldn't pitch. Like no matter what athlete you give me, I'm like, yeah,

but he couldn't pay. Like the fact that Otani is the only guy to have done this at the highest level. I think you absolutely could make the case. He's the greatest athlete in the history of baseball. A sport that's been around 150 years. And this is the best we're going to see in terms of pure athleticism. You know, one of his teammates, Mookie Betts, who I adore,

everyone says what a great athlete he is, right? He can bowl a 300, he can dunk a basketball. But can Mookie Betts throw a splitter? There's certain things even great athletes can't do that Otani can do. The Dodgers beat the Mariners again yesterday. I watched that game. Not for the Mariners.

Actually, the Mariners games are, they move along pretty quickly, which typically they move along pretty quickly because they've got great pitching, but they can't hit. So their games are usually over in like an hour and a half. But I watched that to watch Otani, but I'm just wondering if you've got any thoughts on the Mariners, because it just seems like their fan base right now, even though they're used to losing and they almost come to accept it, they're really frustrated right now because they're getting incredible performance overall from their pitching, but they just can't hit. Yeah, it makes you think about that great question you asked me, Jason, about a month ago,

free one-on-one vacation. You said, is it worse to lose 10-9 or 2-1? And I think it's 2-1. Because at least if my team slugged in scoring runs, like, yeah, it would be annoying and demoralizing, but both think I'm losing, we lost the game. But like a 2-1, it is just so gut-wrenching when you've got that quality starting pitching and you're just wasting it.

You're just throwing it away. And they've got the best starting pitcher ERA in the American League. And in the past, like, three weeks alone, I've worked with several analysts who have gotten hot and bothered on camera about the state of Seattle, including Pedro Martinez, a top-ten pitcher of all time, who last Friday was, like, almost frothing at the mouth because I said to him,

is this not a waste of great starting pitching? He was like, yes. Like, he was, like, taking umbrage on behalf of the Mariners. He was like, you don't understand how good these guys are. Like, what this Pinteta Pitchers is doing and the fact they're wasting, the fact this team has never even made the World Series. I'm like, you could literally do it with these five guys. That's how special and talented they are.

But they can't hit. Julio's had a disappointing season by all measures. You know, Mitch Garver's hitting like a buck 68. Cal Raleigh has some power camp for average. They've got the worst team batting average in the majors at 216. I think, I'm sorry, they might be ahead of the White Sox. And they strike out the most. And like, damn, please, that's another one.

The other thing, I can just tell you, does that mean you understand? I played 18 years in the majors. You don't see starting pitching like this. It doesn't happen. And the fact that these guys have the second worst batting average next to the White Sox who have won 31 games, and they strike out the most, it's appalling.

I would be furious if I was a Mariners fan. And a big one here, Harold, to me is it's cheap right now. These guys are young, so the pitchers are under club control. You're not going to afford them, Jay, a couple years from now. You can't keep all these guys. There's no way. You know the kind You're not going to afford them, Jay, a couple years from now. You can't keep all these guys. There's no way. You know the kind of money that George Kirby's in, again, the open market, Logan, Gilbert, Wu, Miller.

Like Castillo's the one nominal ace. After that, these guys are cheap right now. This is the time to do it. But the fact that I've been able to put together the four games, I don't know one person who thinks Seattle's going to win that division. And they had a 10-game lead on June 18th. There's not one person who thinks, oh, they're going to come back. No, Houston's going to win this division. And they had a 10-game lead on June 18th. There's not one person that goes, oh, they're going to come back. No, Houston's going to win this division.

Their pitching is now rolling. They've got Berlander back. Walker's been good. Hunter Brown's been good. Caccucci, a terrific pickup from the Jays. He strikes at a ton of guys. Kyle Tucker should be back end of the month. The Astros are winning that division.

Seattle's only chance, and they're not going to win the Wild Card because the Wild Card team's above them in that division. So they are going to be on the outside looking in, and the amount of frustration I feel the Mariners now would be enormous. What's it like to talk to Harold Reynolds about the Mariners?

He was one of the guys, like he might have been the guy that I remember growing up as a kid. It was like, he's on the Mariners. It was him, like Alvin Davis, Jim Presley, those guys. Yes. Oh, it's great, because Harold was on those teams, as you know, Jason.

They were not pretty good. Oh, they were terrible. They were terrible. Right, but Harold was the one guy. He was a two-time All-Star. He was a three-time Gold Glove Award winner. He was a great guy. Steve Buhlin, who I worked with at ESPN as an anchor,

Steve's from Seattle originally, worked briefly as a bat boy. And so when he got to work with Harold at ESPN, you're not going to remember this. When I was like 12, worked briefly as a bat boy. And so when he got to work with Harold, he was like, you're not going to remember this. When I was like 12, I was briefly a bat boy in the Bears. And right away, I was like, well, how did Harold treat you? He goes, great. He goes, he was like one of the few guys that would actually tip me. He was friendly. He was genuine.

I was like, oh, thank God. The story comes full circle. He goes, no, dude, he was awesome. I'm not surprised he's been such a great media celebrity because he was a genuinely great guy and effervescent. I think what helped him, too, in Seattle is he was from Oregon. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, so I had a real love of that area and a fondness for it. He was like, listen, we've got some bad teams, but he's got stories for days.

Dick Williams, you mentioned Alvin. Of course, Ken Griffey Jr. he played with. He's great, man. There's a reason why he's a five-time Emmy Award winner, whoever it is. He's awesome. Did you ever go to the Kingdome? I never did.

No, my first time in Seattle was actually last summer for that All-Star game. Oh, really? I was so happy I finally got out there because years ago, yeah, years ago, ESPN had a list of the best ballparks in baseball. I never forgot. Safeco at the time was number two. Now, I don't know what the updated rankings would be,

but in my head, I'm like, oh, this is supposed to be a spectacular park. And it was gorgeous. I'm like, I was impressed with a nice baseball field. But again, I was there at the right time. Mid-July, you know, plus 22 in the sunny. It is beautiful. But even Dusty Baker was telling me it's one of his favorite cities.

Really? Oh, yeah. Because it's got a great combination of the water and the mountains. And in my head, I'm like, well, I've been to Vancouver a couple of times. Obviously, it reminded me of where you guys are in Vancouver. But yeah, I wish I'd, the Kingdome, I'm sure you've got stories from that place. Oh my God. I remember the first Mariners game I ever went to

at the Kingdome, I think there was about 6,000 people there. And I dragged my dad who had no interest in baseball or really no interest in sports. He's like, what am I doing here? At any rate, the Kingdome, it's one of those stadiums that you're like, I can't believe they actually thought that would be a good idea.

It got loud for football. I will say that. It got really loud because it was like a cement block. How could it not? Yeah, I'm just picturing 95, Griffey, Edgar Martinez, all those crowds. They were rock and roll. But you're right. When you're going back before that, those 80s murders. Oof, that's rough. Adnan, I'm thinking of seeing were rock and roll. But you're right, when you're going back before that, those 80s murders,

oof, that's rough. Adnan, I'm thinking of seeing a movie this weekend. I'm thinking of seeing Blink Twice. What have you heard about this movie? Because it's been

reviewed pretty well so far. Yeah, Zoe Kravitz is the director, of course, actress as well, daughter of Lenny Kravitz. And I'll say this

for this summer, you know, we definitely see, daughter of Lenny Kravitz. And I'll say this for this summer, you know, we definitely see the return of the superpower and the superhero movies because of Deadpool, Wolverine, Twisters is a big success. But also, like, there seems to be a real love of these horror movies, you know? No matter what, you see the Blake Lively movie, It Ends With Us is creepy.

M. Night Shyamalan is in the movie, Trap, which I don't think was that successful. I generally think he's a one-trick colony and kind of tired of his act. But with regards to Blink Twice, Channing Tatum, part of a good cast, and which is supposed to be, again, a creepy thriller, unnerving. So, you know, generally,

August is a weird time. It's kind of a dumping ground for the movies, because if they really thought it would be successful, they'd put it around Memorial Day or June and July and ride the summer. When it's late August, you're kind of like, alright, dog days, what are we getting? But you'll get these kind of sleeper hits, these surprises that go, ah, it's better than you might think. And people are still needing to go to the movies

because there's still two weeks left until school starts, so I haven't seen it yet, but I'm also intrigued, so let me know how it is. What are some of the movies that are going to come out like the Oscars season when all the good movies come out? What are some of the movies that you're looking forward to?

The big one that really kicked off the Oscar race, at least in my estimation, is called Sting Thing. So that's about a prison. And Coleman Domingo stars in it. He was in a film last year on Netflix, nominated for Best Actor. And it's a fascinating concept. It's about prisoners who put on plays. I don't know if this is actually, I'm assuming it's based on real life or what happens in some of these prisons, but, you know, these incarcerated men left with nothing else to do for hours of time, like, literally put on plays.

And, like, Paul Racey, who was terrific in the way that sounded metal, which is a movie I love, a few years ago, Racey was nominated for Best Supporting Actor. He plays their drama coach, and he's literally coaching up the inmates. Here's the conceit of it. Domingo is obviously a tremendous actor

as is Paul Racey, but the rest of the actors in the movie are actual inmates. So it's pretty cool. Like when you're watching it, it genuinely feels like a documentary

because I'm like, well, these guys are not actors. They are inmates and they are trying to learn Bob Fallow or King Lee or whatever it is they're trying to learn.

So I thought it was a really interesting film in terms of being a blend of drama and documentary, and I think Domingo's phenomenal in it. He's definitely, I would think, nominated for Best Actor. But as far as the Oscar movies, Joker 2, which I did not like the first Joker. I thought it was just...

Oh, A-Dog loved the first Joker. He loved the first Joker. I wouldn't say loved, but I liked it. Oh, you loved it. You were raving about it. Just because Adnan doesn't like it doesn't mean you. It was very good. I did like it.

No, no, I did like it. I enjoyed it a lot. I thought it was great. I've only seen it once, so I never watched it again. It was so draining. It was so emotionally draining. It was one of those movies, as soon as I watched it, I was like, that was good. I'll never watch it again.

One of those guys. Nice walk back, D. Well, I didn't like it, and I'm even more offended they made a second one. Joker 2 is coming out, and this is apparently a musical of Lady Gaga. Listen, if you wanted to watch it the first time, I'm sure this will get an Oscar bid again. I saw the trailer the other day, and I can't think I have to

force myself to watch this movie. There's nothing worse, by the way, when you're watching a movie next to somebody, and you can tell that they're enjoying it. If I'd been there with Josh, my wife, I could tell was enjoying it, and I'm just rolling my eyes at how over the top he is, how blatantly the story is like ripping off, you know, Taxi Driver and the Scorsese movies.

Totally. The king of comedy. Oh my, this movie is so derivative. And people are going to love this movie. And then he wins the Oscar. I'm like, God, I predicted this nonsense. And that's the second one. So I don't look forward to that.

But Gladiator 2 is getting some Oscar buzz. I believe Wicked, the musical they're making, that's going to get a lot of Oscar hype. It's got a big cast as well. So yeah, we'll get to those Oscar movies a little bit later in the year. But for now, it's funny. If somebody asked me about a day ago, what movie already been released? We'll get Oscar buzz.

And I go, there's really only one, which is Dune 2, which is ironic because a year ago, last July, of course, we had Barbenheimer. Oppenheimer ends up winning seven Oscars, probably at least gets a few nominations, but this year they've really kind of just stacked it as far as the awards rate to not come out until after the fall. What's the story with Megalopolis?

Oh, did you hear what happened yesterday? They had to pull the trailer. They released the trailer for Megalopolis yesterday with a bunch of fake quotes from critics but they the critics found out about them like we didn't say that so they had to take the trailer down this has always been my dream to be like a blurb like i just want to be like adman burke cinephiles you know superb or spellbinding and they're just making up these quotes for the

landscape i had to take them to the truck. That's absolutely right. This is a fascinating movie. $200 million budget, all self-financed. This is all Francis Ford Coppola's money, who has gone bankrupt at least three times in his life. It's insane. He goes, early in my career, I was bankrupt, and then I had The Godfather, I had a windfall. Then I made a pock up now, I was bankrupt

at the back, and I started Zoetro Productions, and I had a few bombs, Cotton Club, etc. Then he bounced back with the winery business to, like, ludicrously wealthy, like, at least hundreds of millions of dollars. And then he has taken that estate, and said, I'm going to make this movie. And, like, it was hysterical watching the Cannes Film Festival

journalists were asking, you have kids, Francis. Like, you know, why don't you just put some money aside? Well, I've got some money aside, but I put $200 million of my own movie into this film because I believe in this. And the reviews are incredibly divisive. There were some that came out and said it's brilliant

and some said it's absolutely god-awful. So I cannot wait to see it. September 27th it's going to come out. It may be too polarizing to make noise in the Oscar race, but I think movie people will see it. It's got a big, splashy cast. Adam Driver among the stars in it, but I don't know what to

expect. I think, like, it's been a while, by the way, since Bill Quid's made a great movie. Let's be honest about that. He's an awesome director, but it's been a while since we've had an Apocalypse of the Godfather, etc. So, this may just be an auteur just being self-indulgent, making a gigantic mess, and burning a bunch of his own money, which sounds kind of like what Kevin

Costner did with Eliza, but I'm really intrigued to see it the trailer alone was looks pretty bizarre well adnan i i love the vision that i've got of you with your wife watching joker and she's loving it you're hating it and you're like i can't believe i'm with you like this is just what's going on here uh always fun to chat with you, buddy. Chat next week, I suppose. Thanks, Jason. Josh, the scene where he's like prancing down the steps. I was like, I cannot wait till I get to dance on the steps of this movie theater. That was my last thing I would do that movie.

Adog gave that a standing ovation. I did. I cried for several hours. In the theater. Yeah, it's true. Changed my life. See you out then. Take care, buddy.

Take care, boys. are you a big movie guy josh yeah okay yeah i i was like very with joker i was it was meh to me i don't think it was great joking this whole like making a musical in the second one though not loving that i think i mean my understanding is it's the musical stuff is like all dream sequence stuff. Like he's losing his mind, obviously. So the musical stuff is not. Spoiler alert. You know what? He wasn't well.

Turns out Joker is not a normal dude. Who would have thought? Yeah. So apparently that's like the angle they're going for. A lot of dream sequence-y stuff. Right. We'll see. Okay.

Charlie O'Connor is going to join us next. We'll talk a little bit about the Flyers and more specifically, what's going on with Ryan Johansson? What was the story there that led the Flyers to terminate his contract? And what will Ryan Johansson do in response to that decision by the Flyers? Jam Pro, the leaders in commercial cleaning and janitorial.

If your workplace demands a clean environment, contact Jam Pro for free. No obligation quote. Visit jampro.ca. This is Halford and Brough, Josh Elliott-Wolf, Jason Brough on Sportsnet 650.