Halford & Brough in the Morning - It May Be Summer But It Feels Like Sprong

Episode Date: July 22, 2024

In hour one, Jason and guest host Jamie Dodd look back at a busy weekend in sports (3:00), they talk the Daniel Sprong signing by the Canucks (6:00), plus they discuss the floundering Blue Jays with Sportsnet's Shi Davidi (27:01).  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na- Shot back to the floor. He's got it. Over. Daniel Sprung. Someone put something wrong in our drink, unfortunately, and it's not our fault. And another high fly ball to left. And he has done it again. Since I've achieved all my goals as president in one term, there was no need for a second. Good morning, it is Halford and Brough, but as you might be able to tell, no Halford today. I'm Jamie Dodd filling in for Mike. Brough is here, though. What's going on, man? Good morning. How are you, buddy? I am doing very, very well. Always a pleasure to be here. Hey, dog, laddie, how's it going, guys? It's going on man good morning how are you buddy i am doing very very well uh always a pleasure to be here a dog laddie how's it going guys it's going well hello hello there's

a good clip there laddie there's a good one to wrap things up on a little relevant i think why what happened what what happened over the weekend well you know mike decided that uh it was time for him to move on welcome some younger blood into the show. Yeah. He'll be back tomorrow. Mike will be back tomorrow. Just one day for me here on the show. Of course, it is Halford & Brough, and it is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today.

Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio, Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star google reviews sore feet what are you waiting for kintec uh you can text in 650 650 to the dumbar lumber text line the bridge street dumbar lumber in ladner has moved to progress way in tilbury's industrial park more room more product, more awesome details at dumbarlumber.com. Yeah, it was a newsy weekend, to say the least, around the world. But it was also actually a really busy weekend in sports. So we got a lot to get into coming up on the show today.

I'll run through the guest list here quickly. 630, Shai Davidi, Sportsnet, MLB Insider, and Jays Insider is going to join us. We'll look ahead to the trade deadline a little bit for the Jays, maybe around the league a little bit as well. At 7, John McCarthy, national golf writer for Post Media, will join us to wrap up the Open. Xander Shoffley gets his second major win of the year. At 7.30, more baseball talk with Mike Lefkoe.

He does the Mariners pre- and and post game show on Seattle Sports Radio. And the Mariners won yesterday. So the panic might be temporarily off in Seattle. But they set a not great record over the weekend. Blowing a 10 game division lead in record speed against the Houston Astros. So we'll take the temperature of the Mariners and the fan base with Mike Lefkoe at 730. Are they out of the wildcard position, too?

If they drop out of the division, they are. Because the AL West is so weak relative to the Central and the East that there's probably only going to be one team going to the playoffs. That's why you've got to look at run differential, people. You've got to look at run differential. They are very, very nervous right now. So we'll talk about that with Mike Lefkoe at 730. At 8 o'clock, the one and only Rick Dollywall,

a hit on a Monday coming out of summer hiatus to do a hit. I'm sure he'll be thrilled. Some massive. Well, he agreed to do it. He did. But I can't get the vibe of the text, though. Really? You should have just said no.

He'll be hearing from him. Rick will love it. No, he'll enjoy it. He'll enjoy it. Rick loves radio he does any chance to come on the radio he's he's excited he'll be happy to do it of course we're talking uh daniel sprung and what else the canucks might do with donnie and dolly's rick dolly wall coming up at eight o'clock um should i do the the guest list in reverse to make everyone feel

comfortable i don't normally do that but that's a half Halford signature. You can do it if you want. What do you guys think? It's pretty tricky. You gotta go backwards. It's like doing the alphabet backwards. Alright, here we go. It took Halford years to master this. This is gonna be my first time trying it. Working in reverse. Nice. At 8 o'clock, Rick Dollywall from Donnie and Dolly. At 7.30, Mike Lefkoe,

Mariners pre- and post-game host on Seattle Sports Radio. At 7, John McCarthy, National Golf Wr writer for Post Media. At 6.30, Shai Davidi, Sportsnet Major League Baseball. Well done. Wow. I'd like to see you do it. What a thrill.

I'd like to see you do it a little more robotically. Like you're not really thinking that you're doing it. Kind of like your soul has left your body. You're just doing it to say something. And then you say, laddie, without further ado, let's get into What Happened. Make sure there's a big sigh. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No.

No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? You missed that? What happened?

What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit bccsa.ca. And, yes, there was the Open over the weekend. The Whitecaps played. The Lions played. But we're the home of the Canucks, Prof. You know where we're starting, and that is the Canucks signed winger Daniel Sprong to a one-year 975,000 AAV deal over the weekend.

So it looks like they might be done, but the Canucks, as they did last summer with Pew Suter, move a little bit later in the summer to make another addition to the team ahead of training camp. Patrick Alveen, in a statement, actually most of the time those statements are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. This one I thought was a little bit interesting. First of all, he started out bringing in another solid winger will be a boost for our club this season. Fine. Daniel has matured. Daniel has matured a lot as a player and has shown he can contribute offensively when called upon his addition up front will give us better depth and should help with more balanced scoring throughout our

forward group. Why did Patrick Alvin have to put in that part that you don't usually hear that? Like it's almost like an, uh, it's almost like an, uh, I don't know. Um, it's like defending the signing in some way. Daniel has matured a lot as a player. And I think that's interesting that he put that in there

just because I think a lot of people's questions about this guy is, hey, if he's such a good offensive player, why has he bounced around so much? Yep. And Patrick Alveen and Jim Rutherford and Rick Tockett even are probably in a pretty good position to answer that because he was drafted with Pittsburgh way back in 2015.

Right. And I remember that his draft year, he was really, really hyped, but he ends up slipping to 46. Right. Like, I think a lot of people thought he could go kind of in the 20s in the first round, falls all the way to 46, actually played NHL games right out of his like in his draft plus one year which is pretty rare for a second round pick um but then you know back to junior ahl time gets like some cups of coffee with the penguins but doesn't stick as regular and eventually has moved

to anaheim and that was kind of the theme of the early part of his career so they i guess have a baseline for like okay he needed to do some maturing we saw him for three or four seasons at training camp and at different stints with the penguins and there were obviously flaws in his game that caused them to move on and apparently patrick alvian thinks at the very least those flaws have been maybe not erased but improved enough where he can be a contributing member and you, you know, really broke out in Seattle a couple of years ago, 21 goals, 46 points in 66 games. Pretty good year of his last year in Detroit as well, 43 points in 76 games.

I think the question has always been one, maybe some of that maturity that Patrick Alvien alluded to, and then the defensive side of his game. So it's going to be really fascinating to see how much has his defensive effort improved or his defensive attention to detail improved? And will it be enough for him to get reliable minutes under Rick Talkin? Where does he fit in this Vancouver lineup, both at even strength and well, I assume he's not going to be penalty killing, but could there be a fit on the first unit power play or is he mostly a second unit guy it seems likely he's going to be a second unit guy to me just be if he was left-handed i'd say yeah he's got a really good shot to be on the first unit power play i

don't really see the spot for him as a righty on the first unit power play in terms of even strength like is he the favorite to open next to petterson and debrusk if he if he can impress talk it defensively enough i think he's got a really good chance to do that and yeah like the other thing do you think nils hoglander was thrilled that the canucks signed daniel sprung probably not i don't think the silly pod colson probably was either yeah right because you go through the wingers and besser debrus garland joshua heinen hoglander sprung sherwood pod colson that's nine guys i just named.

Only eight wingers can be in the lineup, right? So one of those guys is not going to be in the lineup on opening night. And I think Alvin's right that it gives Rick Tocca and the coaching staff a lot more options, someone who can maybe bring a bit of a different element in terms of that scoring punch than some of the other names. But I think it's a very open question now. Will Pod Colson, one, will he be in the lineup? Will he even break camp with the team?

Neil Zeman's probably more likely to be the 13th forward as a center. What's Pod Colson's waivers situation? He has to go through waivers. Yeah, okay. So if he's going to have a third, they've got to put him on waivers. Or they're trading him, and we've seen that happen. I was going to say, now would Alvin feel more comfortable dealing Hoaglander for a competent defenseman? Maybe get a number three guy in there, or they're trading them. And we've seen that happen. I was going to say, now would Alvin feel more comfortable dealing Hoaglander for a competent

defenseman, maybe get a number three guy in there or even a number four. Yeah, I think he'd still have to get something pretty significant in return for Hoaglander because Hoaglander had a tough playoffs. We all know that, right? But sometimes you'll allow that to happen one time for a young player.

He had a very impressive regular season in terms of his goal scoring. But Hoaglander, to me, is kind of like, I also struggle to find where exactly does he fit in Canucks lineup. I know there were a lot of people that at times had compared him to, well, maybe he can be Yannick Hansen and play up and down the lineup or be a fixture, start out as a fixture in the bottom six. But I don't know if I've seen that. I don't know if he has the defensive game that Yannick Hansen had.

I don't know if he's got that. He doesn't. He doesn't. He just straight up doesn't. So there are a few players that will come into training camp in the preseason where we're kind of looking at them and going, I wonder where they're going to fit. And that goes for the new guys, right?

Oh, yeah. Like Danton Heinen, where's he going to fit? I suppose he's a candidate to go into the top six. He's at least a candidate to be given a shot. Jake DeBrus, we've all got our fingers crossed that he does have some semblance of chemistry with Pedersen. Because if he doesn't, you're in that same situation that you were last year. You're like, well, there's no more Mikheyev. But who else fits with Pedersen?

If you're putting somebody like, we don't really want this guy in the top six. At least it's like Daniel Sprong, who's a shooter. You know what I mean? So it's like, okay, it's not Mikheyev. It's the opposite of Mikheyev. He might not do anything else well, but he's going to shoot and score a little bit. But couldn't you have said that Hoaglander was a shooter last year based on your shooting percentage? He absolutely was.

Yeah, he didn't have much power play time, and he was scoring a fair number of goals. So it's a bit of a mishmash, I would say up front for the Canucks and, um, Rick Talkett, uh, has some interesting decisions to make because whatever lineup he puts together, and I think this is true for every team in the NHL, you know, with a hard cap, this is just the reality of, well, I'll say it for, cause

Halford's away. It's the reality of the situation. There aren't many perfect teams. No. In the NHL, you know, with a hard cap, this is just the reality of, well, I'll say it because Halford's away. It's the reality of the situation. There aren't many perfect teams in the NHL. Actually, there are none. I think the last time I really watched a team that I was like, wow, those guys are like super, super complete, was either the Vegas team that won the cup or the Colorado team that won the cup the year before, right?

Like even Florida, I was kind of like, oh, all right, there's a couple things there that you're not 100% about. Certainly the Edmonton Oilers had a few weak links in their team. The Canucks nearly beat those guys. So I think heading into training camp, you're going to be like, well, what's the best possible lineup we can put together? It might not be perfect, and some guys might not be thrilled with their line mates, but it is what it is.

Yeah. And I think, you know, of course, Rick Talkett, as we all know, big puzzle guy, right? And he's got a lot of different puzzle pieces to play with here. And Sprong is the latest one. And I like it because he's a big puzzle guy. And he's like, can I get some better fitting pieces, please? No, but I think he has. It's Homer with the Battlestar Galactica puzzle.

Fit, damn it! He has different types of pieces to play with, though, now, right? Like, Sprong is different than Sherwood, is different than Heinen. So I think one thing is we might, like, let's say Sprong opens next to Patterson and DeBrusque. He's not going to be stapled there for the whole year, right? Like, you're going to see guys cycle in next to Miller, cycle in next to Patterson, and again, I think Taukett has different options to play with. What if that becomes the second

line, though? What if it does work? Well, I mean, then great. Then you have the second line and the third line. Yeah, the third line is still together. And then you don't, wait, Holander's in the fourth line, I guess? Yeah. Poor guy. But that's good. I heard a few people, like I saw it on social media, it was like, what does this mean for Pod Colson?

Well, it means Pod Colson has to show up and play really well. It means Pod Colson's playing in Abbotsford. Yeah, or in the press box. Or somewhere else. Or some other team. Some other team. Like, this is his make or break year. And that's what happens.

It doesn't matter where you draft it. You still got to make the team. By the time you're five years on from your draft, it stops mattering. You don't have to talk yourself into Pod Colson. It doesn't make you a fan. I mean, there were some people, and certainly a lot of people that watched him in Abbotsford all year

that were really looking forward to seeing him with the big club. And I don't think he played badly for the Canucks when he was put in there in the playoffs, but I don't think he stood out either. No. He was treading water, you know, and that's, and that's kind of been the thing with Pod Colson outside of when he more closer to his NHL debut

where he was actually doing stuff out there and he's scoring some goals. The problem that they've had with Pod Coles and is really, you know, not just trying to fit in and not make mistakes there. Like you want to go do something like you're a big boy, take the puck, go to the net, do something, hit a guy. Don't just survive. Don't just survive out there.

And that's all he'd been doing. And that, you know, that, that doesn't really help all that much. It really doesn't. And that's really been the story of Pod Colson's career going back to before he was drafted. Even if you were doing a shift-by-shift breakdown, you'd see a lot of shifts. You're like, oh, I like that. He got the puck in deep, hard on the forecheck, being active, all these things. But what's the bottom line?

Yeah, but then you look and you're like, wait, he hasn't scored a goal and he played 19 games. Didn't score a goal, had two assists. Do you remember the narrative? It was like, he's making great passes. His teammates just aren't finishing the puck. Yeah. I don't know about that. Not so sure about that one, guys.

So let's move on to a few other local teams. We can get back to the Daniel Sprong signing. Throughout the show, if you've got any texts or comments about where you think Daniel Sprong will fit into the Canucks lineup, text into the Dunbar-Lumberts. Text line at 650-650. We're going to start with the Whitecaps game on Saturday because that was wild.

The Caps fell behind Houston 2 to nothing in the first half houston scored a couple of goals that were aided by deflection the second one certainly was a nice goal but they got a little bit lucky and the white caps were perhaps a little bit unlucky not to score the goals did come for them in the second half three them, all involving my favorite player and my favorite name, Fafa Pico, who scored twice and assisted on Brian White's header. Who's that? Fafa Pico.

Fafa Pico. Who, I don't know if you'd believe the rumors, may not be long for the Whitecaps. We'll have to wait and see on that. Apparently, Halford had Axel Schuster on the show while I was gone. I was on the show with on that. Apparently, Halford had Axel Schuster on the show while I was gone. I was on the show with, yeah, it was me and Halford. And he shot down those rumors about Fafapico.

At any rate, the Whitecaps fought back to take the lead 3-2 over Houston. There was even a chance they could make it 4-2, but the referee didn't think after a long think that there was a foul in the penalty area against, you guessed it, Fafapico. And that was a turning point in the game because yada, yada, yada. Houston put two scorching shots past keeper Yohei Takayoka, and the Whitecaps lost the game 4-3. We've got some interesting audio from Vanny. That's one way to put it.

And Vanny was asked, we're going to include the question. Let's just go here because this is some interesting analysis about the second half of the Whitecaps-Houston game. You described the first half of Wednesday's game as champagne football. Yeah. What would you describe the second half of this game in a similar way? I would say probably, I don't know, like a crazy, you know, it's like a crazy night when you go out that is very funny and then you wake up with a big hangover

because it was very beautiful sitting at a certain point and then at the end we got there because someone put something wrong in our drink, unfortunately. And it's not our fault. So the Whitecaps should possibly go to the police. But that was a very interesting way to put it as the Whitecaps lose 4-3 to Houston. The BC Lions also lost.

Hold on. You don't want to do more Fafo Pico? I thought you had a big breakdown on Fafo. I leave this stuff to Halford. It makes his tweet make a lot more sense because he just tweeted randomly, Fafo, yesterday. Halford did? Yeah, I was like, what does that mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now I understand. Now you know. What's this Fafa Pico? He had a big game. Yeah. I want to get to a few more things. All right. So we'll leave the Fafa Pico analysis for Halford when he returns.

The Lions, that was an ugly one in Calgary yesterday. They lost by a point. Wally Buono was honored by the Stamps at halftime. He went into their wall of fame. They don't have a ring of honor. They have a wall of fame at McMahon Stadium, which is frankly close to falling down. It seems weird that he wasn't already honored in some way.

Why did it take them this long? I know. Is it because he went to BC? I don't know. it's bizarre did they forget they're like i don't know right wally buono um but the lions lost and um i don't know if you're gonna use excuses you can say it was windy and maybe that was the ball was sailing on vernon adams it wasn't a great game from the quarterback. And we'll allow that the BC Lions have a bad game. It's a team they should have beaten in Calgary, but they're on the road. I think the Lions have a bit of a break coming up,

so maybe they're looking forward to that. But I saw some video that the Lions released of Rick Campbell talking to the team in the locker room afterwards. And he said, you know, like, get away from football for a few days. But then he kind of added on, if you're upset about this, you should be because we are a better team than what we showed. There were all sorts of mistakes.

We already had an early what we learned into the Dunbar-Lumber text line, and it was the BC Lions looked like the Keystone Cops against Calgary. It was one mistake after another, and it really was. It wasn't, even though it did come down to the wire and the Lions had an opportunity to even win the game, they couldn't fall on a fumble. Like there was a fumble right there for them, and it fell on it, and then it somehow squeaked out,

and it was just, it was a bad football game overall. Poorly played. Congrats to the Stamps, I suppose, who won that poorly played game. But not a good game for the BC Lions, but they are still 5-2 with a pretty good record in the CFL. Yeah, Vernon Adams, under 200 yards, a couple of interceptions as well. He's been so good for the lions this season so hard to win on the road when you're getting that type of performance

i mean they were close which you can kind of if you want to put the silver lining on it say well hey even with that performance we almost beat them but you know what we um we talked to julio caravata on the show last week and suk chung as well when i was on with halford and both of them said like look this team is five and one but there's lots to improve on there's lots they can keep building on

you know Suk was saying we see tons of things on tape we can do better so this like sometimes it's easier to really knuckle down and work on that stuff after a loss right after it's

actually come back to bite you yes you haven't skated by on it so I wonder if this will kind of prompt as you said Rick Campbell is saying like hey you should be mad about

this if this will actually help the team get to work on some of those things they knew they needed to clean up. Thank you from Nate from Comox who texted in and said, Wally asked to not get honored because he thought it would be awkward when he was still coaching in the CFL. Someone else on the station talked about it last week or Donnie and Dolly. That's from Nate from Comox. I think it's also interesting.

Wally sat down with Farhan this week and he said that the CFL should expand back into the United States. All right. And here's a quote. It's on threedownnation.com. Honestly, you asked that question. I would expand in the States and the question

was, what would you do if you were a commissioner for one day? I believe if the Cleveland Browns didn't move to Baltimore in 1996, because Baltimore had a great franchise, San Antonio had a great franchise, Birmingham was a good franchise. If expansion had had an opportunity to continue and Vegas had gotten behind the league, I think

this league would have exploded. I don't know if I agree with that, but I certainly respect Wally Buono's opinion, so maybe he's correct about that. I mean, he had the experience of being in the CFL when they were expanding. I don't know all the steps that the CFL would have had to take because I always thought they were in an awkward position

because in Canada, one of their selling points would be, this game is really Canadian. It's our game. But as soon as they went to the States, it was like, we're the CFL. What does the C stand for? It doesn't matter.

Don't think the ECHL. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We don't, we don't call ourselves the East Coast Hockey League anymore. It's just the ECHL. Right. Like they made that official, right? Yeah.

ECHL. EC stands for nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's the EC Hockey League, right? Yeah. In ECHL. EC stands for nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like. It's the EC hockey league. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah. It was always, I thought, just weird. And when it didn't work, the CFL had a bit of a resurgence when it came back to Canada and made it Canadian only. And I've, you know, we've made fun of and even railed against the CFL's global ambitions. Um, and I know that if you're a league, you always have to be looking at new revenue

opportunities, new profit opportunities, and there's only so much you can expand in, in Canada. Yep. Uh, they can't get a stadium in Halifax, Quebec city, probably not going to happen. You know, I, I don't know where else you could put another team in Canada, but I've always just felt

like there's so much more that they could be doing in Canada to get the job done. And sometimes it feels like they spread themselves too thin in terms of their goals, but how much, like how much they actually have in resources to get behind those goals. You know, like they couldn't get stats going for a long time. So fix that stuff and then maybe think about expanding.

International expansion. All right. It is Halford and Brough here. I'm Jamie Dodd filling in for Mike Halford. We'll talk a little baseball next. Shai Davidi, Sportsnet Blue Jays and MLB Insider joins the show. We'll look ahead to the trade deadline coming up. What will the Jays do? We'll talk about that

and more here on Halford & Brough. Sportsnet 650 jamie dog filling in for mike halford halford brough brought to you by the delari family of acura dealers experience the delari difference today visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. Did I say Acura? You might have. Dilawri family of Honda dealers, of course.

I mean, it is all the same. We're Honda guys now. It's the same company. Yeah, I know. I'm a Honda guy, not because I'm being paid to, just because I drive a Honda. Right, yeah.

Good. Love my CRV. Always hold out until you get paid. I know. Yeah, that was a mistake. I didn't have the option. I needed a car.

Anyways, 650-650 is the Dunbar Lumber text line. You can get your What We Learns in now, and if you're doing that, we're giving away a pair of tickets to see Billy Idol July 30th next week at Rogers Arena. So, best What We Learned. We'll

get a pair of tickets to go see Billy Idol again July 30th. Billy Idol and Blonde. Look, all I'm saying is in the... You got to mention the band that Brough is most excited about. In the material we were given from promo, it just says Billy Idol. It doesn't really matter. Brough's there to see Platinum Blonde. We're giving away tickets to see Billy Idol.

Play that one song again. No, they have many songs. Many hits. Many Canadian. I'm. No, they have many songs. Many hits. Many Canadian. I'm playing a three-hour opening set. Include the ticket emoji in your What We Learned, 650-650 to be entered for your chance to win. We'll give it away to the best What We Learned.

We'll do that later on in the show, but right now joining us from Sportsnet, MLB and Blue Jays insider, he is Shai Davidi. Shai, thanks for doing this. How are you? I'm all right. What's going on? Not too much.

We're giving away some tickets to Billy Idol. Brough is singing Platinum Blonde. But other than that, we're doing very, very well. So the Blue Jays, I mean, I think we've kind of been in what will they do at the trade deadline mode for a while here. I know they picked up the wind to avoid the sweep yesterday, but as we get closer to the trade deadline, what's your latest sense of what to expect from the Blue Jays? Still the same that it's been for a while now,

that this is a team that is hoping to keep their core in place and then regroup around it for 2025 and essentially look to move some of their expiring contracts before the deadline passes and not do much beyond that now could that change if an offer that was just so compelling presented itself sure but i think as you know the things are set up right now the way that they're proceeding it's gonna probably be just their expiring contracts so is the logic behind that right not making any big moves other than the expiring uh expiring deals is it that they plan to complete next year right that they think they can be a World Series contender as soon as 2025?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you'd view this year as an aberration within the trajectory of this current core and that next year with better health and, you know, perhaps a couple other different player moves that pan out a little bit more successfully, that you end up with a group that can compete for a postseason spot. Now, once you get in the playoffs, you know,

it's basically anything can happen at that point. So that would be the thinking. And, you know, you've gotten, you've had a bunch of things that you wouldn't have expected this year, right? You think about the number of injuries that they've had. You think about the way the bullpen has played out. You think about Bo Bichette having just the absolutely worst season of his career. You have George Springer with a season of extremes.

Vladimir Guerrero Jr. slow start before finding it. You know, a few of those things play out a little bit differently. We're having a different scenario. And then, you know, if you have a couple different moves in the offseason that maybe turned out a little bit more successfully, then you're looking at a much more competitive team than the one that's on the field right now. And, of course, looking ahead to next year and competing then, the question becomes partly, well,

Bobachet and Vlade will both be a year away from free agency at that point. Now, Vlade, as you said, has a slow start, but really come on. And it seems like, OK, it's not maybe the elite version of Vlade from 2021 that people are wanting to see. But this is still a player who's playing well, who's hitting well, who could be kind of comfortable locking in long term if that's the direction they want to go. Whereas with Bobachet, there still seems to be more questions i mean is like is this pointing towards vladi signs long term in a bow trade in the off season or is it could something else still be in the cards for the jays and these players well i would you know it's kind of interesting if you went into before this season you might have had that flipped, right?

And you would feel better about extending Bo versus trading Vladimir Guerrero Jr. So I think we have to be careful because players, every player, has aberration seasons and has some up and downs. And we kind of forget how young both these guys are, you know, that Guerrero's 25, Bowe's 26. You know, Aaron Judge was just touching the majors at 24, and it took him four or five years to become what he is right now. And so I think we lose perspective a little bit

when we forget about that and how long it can sometimes take, and that these guys haven't reached peak years yet. And they've already got all these accomplishments. So, you know, to me, I think in an ideal world, you're extending both. I think right now the pathway is a little bit more clear with Vladimir Guerrero Jr. than Bo Bichette for an extension. I think it has been for a while.

Vladimir Guerrero Jr. has been very public with his desire to remain with the Blue Jays. Now, financially, can they find that sweet spot? I think there might be some challenges in terms of how a contract is framed with him. You know, the Blue Jays may look at how other first basemen have been paid and might say, you know, that's where we'd want to go.

And Vladimir Guerrero Jr. might look more towards where, say, Rafael Devers, Fernando Satis, Juan Soto's probably going to set the market in a significant way or reset the market in a significant way this offseason. And he might see that as more his peers than fellow first basemen. And I think that's where some of the challenge lies. And, you know, with Bichette, I think, you know, he's been, he's played his cards a little bit closer to the vest. I think under the right circumstances, the Blue Jays could extend them.

But it also is a matter of, well, what are you doing organizationally if you're extending both guys. And so I think there are a lot of questions and there's just a lot of uncertainty in so many areas of the organization right now that I don't know that there's a clear answer, even internally, to those questions at the moment. Do those questions have to be answered this offseason? I think to some degree, right?

Because if you're thinking about how best to manage those assets and you don't have a plan for what you're doing, if you take another run at it in 25 and don't succeed, what you do if you do succeed, what the parameters of an extension might look like, what you're doing beyond 25 one way or the other, I mean, that's pretty reckless. And I think there are too many smart people in this organization to allow that to happen.

But I think you've got significant questions right now. But, you know, Mark Shapiro's contract is up at the end of 25. Ross Atkins is the general manager. He's in some uncertainty right now in his situation, even though his contract runs through 26. You know, do you still have faith in John Schneider to lead this group? There are a lot of pieces that really have to get settled, and the Blue Jays have been an organization that's valued stability.

They've had very little change with a lot of their leadership over the near decade that Mark Shapiro has been in charge of the team. But there are a lot of issues around the organization right now, not just on the big league bell club. And so there's some big decisions

that have to be made, and that casts forward into some of the other decisions, which are all critical. Do you think Ross Atkins will be back as general manager? Most people seem to assume that they'll have a new field manager in John Schneider, but I guess Ross Atkins might be the big question mark there? Yeah, I mean, to me, the first decision is, are you bringing Ross Atkins might be the big question mark there? Yeah, I mean, to me, the first decision is, are you bringing Ross Atkins back? And, you know, there is a case to certainly to make a change. And

I can certainly see a scenario where, you know, he is perhaps reassigned within the organization or something along those lines. And there is a replacement for him afterwards. It's been nine years and the core has gotten to a certain point, not gotten over the hump. And maybe it's time to give someone else a chance to try and get the team to some playoff success, not just winning wildcard spots. And so I think that question will get settled maybe late August, early September. You'd have to know one way or the other going into the offseason what lane you're in.

And then at that point, then you start making decisions about manager, and then you can firmly pick the direction that you're going to go in as an organization. Once the trade deadline is over, what is there for Blue Jays fans to look forward to the rest of the season? Is it the Joey Votto watch, and that's about it? I mean, it needs to be more than just the Joey Votto watch.

I think that would be, obviously, a fun story and an important one in a lot of ways. This is one of the, you know, one of the greatest Canadian baseball players ever, a future home, a future Hall of Famer. And so the Blue Jays, you know, him finishing, potentially finishing out his career as a member of the Blue Jays, that would be a tremendous story. But more important is what are you doing for 25 and beyond? And so to me, that's what is the continued progress of Spencer Horowitz? And what do you really have in Ernie Clement? And is David Schneider more than he's shown?

And can you get Addison Barger a little bit productive? Does Stuart Baroa need some playing time so you can see what you have there? Are there a couple other players that are coming up? Can you get Yeriel Rodriguez through a season to put him in position to be a starter next year? Are there some other arms in Buffalo that can come up and contribute and get some experience in the next year? Is Brendan Little and Ryan Burr, are they bullpen pieces? Because you've got to put the bullpen back together again. What are you doing with Eric Swanson?

So I think those are the questions. They're not as sexy as the things to watch. They're not quite as sexy as some of the other things. Definitely not as sexy as a run at a playoff spot. But that's the reality for the Blue Jays. And it's all about creating, getting a getting a jump start on 25 you know that that's what that's how you can get value out of the the remaining two two plus months of the season hey shy you mentioned uh george springer in the season of extremes he's had and

i mean he was dreadful to start the year the last month he's been absolutely incredible he's been on fire and you know he turns 35 in September. Like, what has gone right? What has changed for George Springer? And, I mean, does it say anything about what the Jays can expect from him if they are trying to compete for a playoff spot next year? Yeah, I mean, that's a huge, huge question, right? And, you know, you can't – it was nearly three months where he was, his OPS was 570, you know, and one of the least, if not the least qualified, least productive qualified hitter in the game.

And over the past month, he's been basically the best hitter in the American League in terms of numbers. He's like first, second third in uh virtually all offensive categories since that since that span so you know you'd like it to be a little bit more balanced but you know if he's a 725 750 ops player then that's fine and that's what you would have baked into that contract like you couldn't go into that deal expecting him to be, you know, an 850, 900 OPS player for the duration of the six years. You're buying decline. You understand that when you get a free agent.

And the issue to me with George Springer has not been so much his play as much as that it's the Blue Jays haven't put other pieces around him so that he could recede into a bit of a lesser role as he's aged with others there to pick up the slack. And they went into this year needing George Springer to be an all-star caliber player again. And yeah, that might be a bit, a bit much to expect from a 34 year old outfielder who's,

who's heading for 35, right? So how much you can get out of George Springer, I think to some degree will be determined by what you're seeing over the next couple of months. Some of the changes that he's made at the plate are geared towards handling velocity more effectively, and you've seen him do that, and just be in a position to hit

and be in a position to hit and be in a position to do damage again so those look like they can be sustainable uh and and the fact that he was able to make an adjustment and and implemented uh you know while the while the engine's running midstream and that's that's really that that's really significant so i think the blue jays you know all the things I mentioned before, that if they manage around him and expect him to be a good player but maybe not an elite player again, then he's absolutely a factor. I think he's got a chance to show that he's just that over the next two months.

Shai, thanks for doing this. Really appreciate it. We'll talk soon. Yeah, no problem, guys. Have a great day. That is Shai Davidi, Sportsnet MLB and Blue Jays insider, and yeah, plan is to run it back, as they've gotten used to doing in Toronto sports. Just try it again.

Just try it again. Why not? I'm sure it'll work. I'm sure it'll work this time. Cole and Poco texted into the Dunbar Lumber text line, 650-650, and we were talking about the Daniel Sprong edition. And Cole writes in, my biggest concern with the Canucks forward group is that if Besser regresses, we are back to square one

where we have no game-breaking wingers. Eight third-line wingers won't win too many games. I think that's a totally fair question. You could even say, if Besser's fine, if Besser scores 35 goals, is that enough at the wing position unless one of these guys really breaks through? There was a reason they were after Gensel at the trade deadline while Brock Besser was playing good hockey.

The wing position is generally seen as the easiest thing to address. And there were times when we looked at all the wingers the Canucks had and said, they get too many wingers. They got to trade some wingers. They need some D men. But you still need those guys on the wings and

you still need speed on the wings, which I will have to be convinced that they've found. I hope they found it in DeBrusque and Heinen. I think those guys help for sure. But that was something that Patrick Alveen wanted to address this off season. Hopefully he's been able to do that. And I think maybe the way the Canucks play might be altered a bit and it might look like

they have a little more speed if they address, they do something to make sure that they're going to score a little more off the rush and not just, well, they were scoring off the rush early in the season, but it was just like at an unsustainable. Fling in the pocket the net. Yeah, it's like, I went in, we're, this is a

team of destiny. This is amazing. Um, and then, you Fling in the pocket the net. Yeah, it's like, I went in. This is a team of destiny. This is amazing. And then, you know, in the playoffs, we all know how it went. The Canucks, there were times where they would have two shots in a period and it was like, they're lucky to have those. You know, I think this is going to be

a real challenge for Rick Tocan and he's up for challenges. He likes these things because you don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. What Rick Talkin did defensively with this group earned him coach of the year. He got them to buy in to a specific way of playing. They were sacrificing for each other.

It was great to watch. They played respectable hockey. But now the expectations have changed and there's going to be a book on the Vancouver Canucks. I still think, you know, some people have pushed back on this. I still think that the Edmonton Oilers saw what Nashville did against the Canucks and they're like, we're going to try and do some of the similar things. I mean, it wasn't exactly the same, but some of those games looked the same.

Yep. Where the Canucks against the Edmonton Oilers couldn't get shots. Yep. You know, that was a team that was supposed to be easier defensively to break down

and they weren't. So, I don't know where, I don't know where it goes, but I think it's going to be interesting to watch. Yeah, and I will say,

I think if you look at it, no matter how you slice it, the winger group has improved based from where they ended last year right like debrusk the the improvement going from mckeough to debrusk i think is really really big yeah but debrusk is such a better player then you factor in i like the heinen signing sprung now with some offensive upside sherwood i think there's enough there that at least talk it's gonna have lots of options to try to find the right fit i agree with you but if you like if you want to look at this team as a you

know top tier stanley cup contender right now you'd probably need an additional top six winner right like somebody else you felt really really good like hey this guy can challenge for 30 goals uh i love having him on the top line or or the top six whatever it is but i do think there's no doubt about it that they're improved. I think the point you make about are they going to change how they play a little bit is interesting. I saw some smart hockey people pointing out on Twitter that Sprong has traditionally scored a lot of his goals off the rush. And this was a team that, as you said, they did score off the rush early in the season, but they didn't have a lot of rush chances. Like they were not a team that looked to get on the rush at all so i wonder if not that they're going to

change how they play for daniel sprung right but that if there's at least some willingness to say you know what we have to find a way to generate more rush chances we just that just has to be a bigger part of our game now how do you generate more rush chances? Well, it helps if you've got good puck-moving defensemen. And right now, if you look at the Canucks' defense and you assume that Hughes and Hronik are going to stay together, maybe that's going to be an issue on two pairs. But I really think, and when you read between the lines of what Patrick Galvin says, I really think he wants them

to experiment with Hrononic on another pair. So we'll see if they do that. The other thing is, do you blow the zone once in a while? Oh, yeah. So that brings up the question of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Because one of the reasons the Canucks were so successful is that i don't want to say that they just like constantly kept five five guys behind the puck a lot but there were times when they definitely did they did yeah they did you know and it came at the expense of

those rush chances and when you didn't have the burners that some other teams had then it looks the way it looked in the playoffs, which was like this plotting group is trying to get out of there and to try and get some shots on goal. And it isn't working very well. Yeah. And it is the kind of thing where, but they're staying in games because they're playing well defensively.

It's not as easy as being like, okay, we'll just, we'll cheat 10% more. Right. Because I think the talk at thing, you need a hundred percent buy-in, right?

Like you kind of can't have it both ways where it's like, oh, we'll just cheat a little bit because then everything starts to break down. I think that's at least the fear from Rick Talkett. I will say in Bob and Gibson's text in, I like the low-risk Sprong signing. I think the singles trader Jim

is going to move a Hoaglander and or a Pod Colson for another defenseman in Jim we trust. And I will say, like, one of my first thoughts of the Sprong deal is this management group, and I mean this as a compliment, cannot sit still. They are, like, they are always looking to tinker, always looking for the deal out there to improve the team. And I think as you look at it now, I think with...

They'd run the Blue Jays in a different way. they would run the Blue Jays in a very different way. There would have been moves by now if they were running the Blue Jays. And I think Bob's I'm not saying it will be Hoaglander or Pod Colson, but they're going to look to add some more puck moving on the blue line, whether it's before training camp, whether it's during the season they're well aware of that as a potential vulnerability i think and i think again they're they're incapable they're they don't rest on their laurels they don't sit back and like oh well this team's pretty good they're always looking to do something to improve the team nate from comox texts in even if they have eight third line wingers they have two number one centers so they should be able to come at teams in waves like the original vegas teams at least that would be the hope and that could help shelter the bottom 4D and this is where I bring up Elias Patterson and say none of this really matters if he doesn't come back and play like the superstar he is I I was I was kind of grousing the other day just like sitting there when I was talking about the connection with my buddies and I was like yeah man like if Petey had played like we we know he can play. You were grousing?

I don't even know if that's the right word. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I know. I haven't heard it in a decade or so. They could have beaten the Oilers. Yeah. You know, Pettersson was – well, I mean, he wasn't a non-factor because he was a major factor in that series.

But, you know, if he had been the reliable Pettersson or not – well, if he had been top-level Pedersen, could have been a game-changer in that series. I mean, he is a game-changer at his best. You'll be proud, by the way, when I was on with Halford, we did the Mount Rushmore of worst Canucks contracts in the cap era, and lots of people texted him, Pedersen. So we read them in your honor.

In my honor. Yeah. The contract hasn't even kicked in yet. See, here's the thing. I guess it has now. See, here's the thing. I'm not saying that he's going to be a massive bust with this contract. I'm saying I just don't know.

I have no idea what to expect from him this season. And when people say they have faith, I'm like, yeah, I get that. He's come out of bad spots before and played well. And when people say, I don't like that contract at all, I'm like, yeah, I get it. I get it.

I get why you don't want that contract. You know, with all the changes that the Canucks have made roster-wise with these new forwards and with the deep dive that Rick Tockett's going to do and trying to figure out how the Canucks might be able to play a little more creatively and figure out the power play next season.

The number one wild card in all this is Pettersson. It is. If he doesn't come back and play, none of it matters as far as I'm concerned. In terms of, you might be able to make the playoffs, but in terms of winning the Cup, you need your best played, you need your highest paid player, the biggest contract in Canucks history. You need that to be an asset for your team as opposed to a liability.

The Roar is back at BC Pl for the BC Lions' 70th season. Get your tickets now at bclions.com. We will talk golf. Xander Shoffley winning another major. John McCarthy, national golf writer for Post Media, joins us next here on Halford & Brough Sportsnet 650.