Halford & Brough in the Morning - It's Damage Control Time

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

In hour two, Mike & Jason chat with Too Deep Zone NFL insider Mike Tanier (1:13) about today's remaining Wild Card game as well as all the upcoming playoff matchups, plus they talk to Sportsnet's Iain MacIntyre (28:13), who is currently on the road with the Canucks during this road swing, about what's next for the club off of the ice. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Happy Monday, everybody. Halford Brough, SportsNet, 650. Halford Brub in the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal could get you on the road to being debt-free in just two weeks. Visit them online at Sands-Trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program. Mike Tanny, our NFL insider from the two-deep zone, is going to join us in just a moment here to kick up Hour 2.

Hour 2 is brought to by Jason hominock at Jason. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect moment. Mortgage for you. Visit them online at Jason. Don Mortgage. We are coming to live from the Kintech studio. Make 2026, your year to move better and step stronger with Kintech custom orthotics. To the phone lines we go. Our next guest is a presentation of the Clayton Public House. Mike Tanier, our NFL insider from the Too Deep Zone, joins us now on the Halford

and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Mike. How are you? I'm doing great. That play in music made me feel like Austin Powers International Man of Mystery. Good reference. I have a pop culture reference. as well. It was Meatloaf who once sung that two out of three ain't bad. And I guess if he was going to be covering the wildcard weekend, he could have said, so far, four out of five ain't bad, as you put in the walkthrough, four bangers and a dud. It was a pretty lame Sunday nighter. But everything else, Mike, made for a pretty awesome opening weekend of NFL playoff action. Yeah, and the Sunday nighter was compelling until the third quarter. It was very close. It was weird. It had a grungy fun to it, but it did feel like, wow, they saved the weakest two teams, like the least ready for primetime two teams for the end of the schedule. We, I do want to, we'll get to that one in a sec, but I want to start first and foremost with

the one that we started our NFL coverage with Bears Packers. And I'll ask you the most obvious question, because that's what I do. Was that more about the Bears comeback? Or was that more about the Packers' joke? It was a little bit of everything. It's so hard. Because you look at the Packers, and it feels like such an epic loss because you try to put your finger on what went wrong and put your finger about 30 different places. You can point to everyone. You can point fingers in everyone, and that's what makes it feel like such an epic collapse. But if you look, take a step back and look at the game, the bears were self-destructing

for the entire first half. I think they went one of five on fourth down conversions. They went for fourth down deep in their own territory. they were throwing interceptions on fourth down. In a different world, if the Bears played a more normal game in the first half and maybe kick a field goal or punted when it was when they were at the 35 or order they were, the score might have been 1410 at halftime, and we wouldn't be talking about a collapse.

We wouldn't be talking about a comeback. We'd be talking about how the Bears played a better game overall, and that's why the Bears won. Now, all that said, the second half for the Packers was, it was like watching a car crash unfold very, Very slowly. Were you surprised that? Jason pointed this along this morning.

I guess this is fairly recent news that it won't cost Matt Lafleur his job. Do you think it should have? It feels like every, see, that's the thing. Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't. And maybe halfly the defensive coordinator deserves blame. But then you look at it, it's like, yeah, too many guys were injured, Michael Parsons, Devante Wyatt.

You look at the kicker. It's like, well, they should probably fire the kicker, okay. But get rid of the special teams, coach? I don't know. You look at Jordan Love, and like, well, Jordan Love had four touchdowns. So each time along the way, you say, well, these guys made so many mistakes in the second half, and yet it goes up 21 to 6. So I think LeFlor keeps his job, you just look at the entire organization going up to the front office

and all the way down to the special teams. And you say, wow, it seems like this team is built to finish seventh and losing the playoffs every single year, and they can't figure out a way to escape that rut. The bears are going to be underdogs against the visiting Rams next weekend, but I wonder if next weekend is the time to get the Rams, considering we're not sure if Matt Stafford has a pretty seriously injured fingered or not. That's correct. Stafford's finger injury is a big deal,

and my eyes are on the weather report in Chicago, where the temperatures all next weekend, the highs in Fahrenheit are supposed to be in the teens. Somebody in another Canadian radio station helped me out. Like that's negative 8 or negative 10 or something like that. In Celsius. That's cold. The Rams hate that kind of weather.

Stafford hates that kind of weather. And I would hate that kind of weather if my finger were throbbing in the first place. And I had to grip an icy football. So, yeah, this is the best possible outcome for the bears. We're there at home against a team that hates the cold. A quarterback doesn't like the cold. And a quarterback who's probably going to have a numbing agent on his finger in the first place. We're speaking to Mike Taney, our NFL insider from the two deep zone here on the Halford

and Breft Show on SportsNet 650. Mike, let's go to your backyard, Philadelphia. Was this almost like a weirdly vindicating loss for a lot of the fans that had all that angst all season about Siriani and this woeful offense? Tom Brady. But told you so, game. I think Tom Brady mentioned tempo of their offense at least 35 times. Yes.

Like any chance he had to bring it up, he brought it up. And I guess ultimately he might have been proven right. because that was a lethargic, slow plotting offense that we saw yesterday at the Eagles. Yes, it was a cathartic relief. I told you so. I went to the store this morning and heard from the other Eagles fans. I got my text messages from the neighbors and all. Eagles fans were done with this team.

They're done. They're done watching this. We're done watching this offense. Let's get some. Let's fire Petulo. Let's make some changes. Let's go. The storylines are tired.

Let's move on. And Brady, you know, Brady knows a thing or two about playing up-tempo offense and how these things were supposed to look. And, you know, he was trying to explain. It's hard for Brady to explain in real time what's going on. But, you know, I really saw it when the Eagles would come to the line with 20 seconds left. And then Jalen Hertz would be making so many adjustments and so many changes. And the defense would be like pointing and changing and doing things on their side

that the ball snapped at one or two. That's not how it's supposed to look. That's doing too much of the line. or not enough in the huddle or something that just takes all of the air out of the offense. And the Eagles offense has been doing that really throughout the 2025 season. How impressed were you with the game Kyle Shanahan called on Sunday? It was excellent. You start with the first drive by the 49ers.

Eagles are not expecting party to be going up top, not expecting anyone to go up top to DeMarcus Robinson, who's not somebody you normally think of as a big playmaker for the 49ers. Then the last two drives, first of all, an astounding trick play, which caught the Eagles completely by surprise, called it the perfect time. Then the final drive. And a lot belongs to Purdy, too. Purdy is doing a phenomenal job, both making big throws and game managing,

doing both elements of the things, without most of his playmakers, without George Kittle. But Shattahan gets credit for it, too, where they're thinking, dunking, finding creative ways to get the ball to McCaffrey, finding ways to get the ball to Ushik and whoever's left on offense, just an excellent coaching job, with a severely depleted roster by Kyle Shanahan and Robert Saleh for the Niners. Is this actually true in the walkthrough?

I was reading this, that the 49ers committed just one penalty all evening, and it was that very... No, that was a lie. Mike was lying to... Are you lying in the walkthrough? But the one penalty was just that very questionable roughing the passer penalty when Hertz went running. That was it. That was only charged with one penalty.

That was it. I'm quintuple-checking one penalty for 15 years. Folks in Philly can point to the number of times that there was a receiver getting grabbed downfield. There were a lot of no whistles. I think they were doing that both ways in fairness. But that's a testament to the little things. 49ers have no margin for error. They have nobody on defense.

They were pulling guys who were hanging out getting early bird specials with Philip Rivers. They were calling those guys up out of retirement, putting them on the roster this year. You know, again, with Kittle out there, they're really depleted an offense, they can't goof around. So the fact that they did no holding penalties, no motion penalties, no defensive holdings or pans interferences to give the Eagles free first down, all of that contributed and all that was necessary to preserve that narrow victory. How do you like their chances in Seattle next week? and also maybe touch on the fact that they just played the Seahawks

and lost, I would say, fairly handled and it was 13 to 3, but that was the Seahawks game. Yeah, that was the Seahawks game, and it feels like the Seahawks, maybe if they had turned up the heat a little bit offensively, they could have scored more.

I don't like the 49ers odds, not to keep harping on the Kittle injury, but the Kittle injury. That's one of the handful of Pro Bowl, guys they had left. Just saw the update, you know, there was talk about Fred Warner maybe kind of sort of coming back. He is not coming back.

Ricky Pearsall might be back next week. Trent Williams was back that house. But again, to touch on what we're talking about right now, the Niners beat the Eagles by four points. They needed the Eagles offense to play along to a degree by playing

down to their worst instincts. They needed a one penalty game to get that done. There's no margin forever for the 49ers. If the Seahawks go out there, play their regular football, come out as a healthy team that didn't have to go on the road cross-country in the cold, they should be able to preserve, not an easy victory, but a convincing victory against the 49ers. Is it as simple on defense for the Seahawks to shut down Christian McCaffrey, make sure that he doesn't make a big play and you should be okay?

I think that's part of it. I think, well, what we saw, it's like, contain Purdy and prevent Shanahan's from being able to sort of outsmart you and figure out a way to get the ball to his guys. But you're right. If it's down to Pearsall's not there and Kittles not there. You look at McCaffrey, you realize you're going to be able to match up against every other player on that team. The Seahawks can match up easily against Robinson and Sky Moore. And Joanne Jennings, he's a trouble. Okay, so that's your other one. So when it comes to that, it's like, avoid the trick plays. contain McCaffrey. You don't have to shut them down, but you're right, the way you said it, prevent the big plays.

And then make sure on offense, you're doing enough that you get like a, you know, a seven-point lead, tilt the ball, the field in your favor, come away with the win. We're speaking to Mike Tan here, our NFL insider from the two-deep zone here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. I want to go back to the Sunday nighter. And one of the narratives about the New England Patriots this season was that they hadn't beat anyone good all year. They had the softest schedule in the NFL, and in recent years, one of the most soft schedules that we've seen during a regular season. Does that sentiment still apply after beating off on Los Angeles Chargers? Because that was one of the worst offensive line performances.

One of the worst offensive lines I've ever seen participate in a playoff game. That's exactly. And it's kind of looked like that for much of the season. I thought it was probably a little worse than usual last night. and you saw how the Patriots won. We say, well, that was a convincing beating. It's like, no, at the fourth quarter started, it was nine to three. It was not that convincing a beating.

And they had handed the ball to the Chargers a couple times, like at the three-yard line and come away. So I think it still applies to a degree. That was the easiest draw in the IFC, getting that Chargers team in this situation. The Patriots in the first quarter played down to that opponent. The first half played down to that opponent. So impressed with Drake May, impressed with how the defense came alive at the end to make sure that they realize, okay, this Chargers, they cannot block anybody. They're kind of done for the year. Let's preserve this victory.

Still not looking at this Patriots team and saying, oh, they're going to go. They're going to cruise to the playoffs. Let's see what happens tonight because if the Texans beat the Steelers tonight, I think that the Texans are going to do to May what the Patriots just did to Justin Herbert. What did you think of the job that Josh Allen, the Buffalo Bills did getting out of Jacksonville with a slim victory? I like the job that Josh Allen did. The rest of the Buffalo Bills also liked the job that Josh Allen did to get them out of there. And I joke about it, and I call him, it really felt like Josh Allen single-handedly beat the entire Jacksonville Jaguars organization. And if you don't believe that, watch the tush push that gains 11 yards where he's just smashing, he's bending defenders backwards.

as he tries to get to the end zone. So, you know, the Bill's storyline is almost like, it's stale at this point. We all know it. It's like, oh, yeah, this is their year if they can pull it together. And Josh Allen has to be Superman. But that's what happens. They realized they were trailing. They were playing down to the worst instincts.

The Jaguars are a very strong team. And Josh Allen said, you know what? Forget it. I'm doing it myself. And he did. We're going to see how that plays out in Denver. I think the Broncos are a beatable team. I believe the bills are favored right now,

and I think it's very possible that we see a Superman sequel in Denver. Yeah, the bills are favorites, and that was one of the things I was looking at. I'm like, I don't love that for this narrative. If you want to see Buffalo get to the Super Bowl, which I very much do. I think it's long overdue, and I'd love to see it happen. Giving Denver the no one believes in us,

and we're the home team and we're the number one seed and we're the underdog, I don't love that aspect. But one final one, before we let you go, Mike, and it is tonight's game. real quick. Just the Texans come in as a three-point road favorite against a very weird, I would classify at Pittsburgh Steelers team who did win 10 wins games in the regular season. And they are in the playoff field.

Who do you see winning tonight, Texans or Steelers? Aaron Rogers leading a weird team. That's unheard of. If the Steelers win, the final score is going to be like 12 to 10 and it's going to be on like 455-yard Chris Boswell field goals, I don't think that that's going to happen. I think you're going to see a variation on Sunday night's game tonight where you're going to see the Texans forcing Rogers to get rid of the ball the moment he gets it, you know, hitting the deck before he gets hit too hard,

not being able to find his receivers against the best secondary in the AISA, and the Texans offense will turn around and do just enough and grind out just enough points to pull away in this game at the end. It's funny you said that I was going to say you're not going to see a bigger beating than the one Justin Herbert took on Sunday night until we see Aaron Rogers on Monday So we'll see what happens tonight. Mike, thank you very much for taking the time to do this. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the game tonight. We'll do this again next Monday when we'll be looking back on the four divisional games. Absolutely. Take care. Enjoy your week.

You too. Thanks, Mike. That's Mike Tanier, our NFL insider from the two deep zone here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Mike is a presentation of the Clayton Public House. Reserve your spot for the big football party at the Clayton Public House hosted by Sportsnet 650. email info at the Clayton Pub.com. The Clayton Public House, good food, good people, good times. So the Kinex did a little bit of messaging slash damage control over the weekend. General manager Patrick Galveen had a what I would call a fairly scripted appearance with Chris Faber, a video that they published onto social media. And Jim Rutherford.

spoke with our very own Ian McIntyre, who we are going to speak with in about 10 or 15 minutes. And he had some interesting quotes to Ian McIntyre. And I think this is probably the most welcoming one. He would say, Rutherford said, I would suggest that we listen to teams when they call about anybody. He said,

when someone talks about a hybrid rebuild, who talked about that? It means the team is not shopping every player. So I guess he's saying that the hybrid rebuild is dead now. That was a short-lived hybrid. That was what I inferred. I do want to ask IMac when we get them on the show to clarify, but that's what I inferred. Okay. I'll go on here.

Prior to this, we already made the decision that we were going to go with younger players. See, it's been a plan the whole time. Over the past few years, our staff has done a good job, and we have a number of good young players, whether they're in our lineup now or close to getting in our lineup. And those players are going to get a chance to play. Based on the circumstances with this team, this is the year to do it. This is the year to do it. What about next year? That's a big question.

Yep. That's a big question for me. What about next year? But he says, the fact of the matter is we're in a rebuild. Oh, my God. He said it. Okay. He also said some things that might make Canucks fans think nothing has really changed here. Because he also said the process of a rebuild would take two or three times longer if you just go with young players.

You have to have the right veteran players to mentor these up and coming players. If you do that, the rebuilding process doesn't have to be nearly as long. And we happen to have some very good veteran players that can and I believe are willing to play in a situation like this and be good mentors. So the follow-up question here, everyone would think the follow-up question would be, who are those guys? But that's not the right question because Rutherford's going to name check all of the veteran guys that you already know. The question is, what have they shown that would suggest? that they would be good mentors. What have they shown?

There would be no answers. What? Go down the list. Yes, there's a handful of guys who are putting in a shift and trying their ass off. There are. Horonick and Garland would be the guys.

But the problem is, is that Heronic and Garland would probably net you the biggest return if you were to put them on the market. See, that's how this works. The veteran presences that show up

and put in a shift and put in an effort and produce are also the players that other NHL teams are going to want. I don't know if everyone's aware of this or not, but regular not healthy scratched NHL forwards that go 14, 15, 16 games without a goal aren't exactly a hot commodity on the open market, especially when they've got a lot of term left on their contract and they have no movement clauses.

And there's a lot of those guys. there's a lot of guys that just aren't showing up. Like I'm going to throw it out to the listeners here. I think this is a good question. Okay. If there's a player with term, not talking about pending UFAs, with term that's going to get traded,

who do you think it's going to be? Because for me, if they keep all these guys or even honestly if they only trade one of them, That's not a rebuild. No. They're bringing back a lot of guys. So who do you think it's going to be? Your options are.

Elias Pedersen. Brock Besser. Jake DeBrusk. Marcus Pedersen. Yep. Philiparonic. Sure. And then I would say the two goalies,

Thatcher Demko and Kevin Lankan. You're going to throw Garland in there? And Garland. Sorry. Yep. Yep. Sherwood. Kane. Well, no, no, no.

Not the pending UFA. I'm not talking about the pending UFAs. Oh, sorry. I was listening. Not talking about the pending UFAs. I was listing all the guys I would trade. Okay, but I'm talking about the guys with term. Yeah.

Who do you think is the most likely? Because you've got the guys that I think could be traded, especially a guy like Connor Garland because he actually doesn't have trade protection until July 1st. And then he's at a very reasonable cap hit of $6 million. I think that would be a good addition for a lot of teams. Philip Horonick, he's a terrific hockey player.

Now he has a full no-move clause, which could complicate things, but his cap hit looks amazing at just over $7 million. But those might be the guys you want to keep. No. Right? They might be the ones you want to keep.

So the other guys, Marcus Pedersen, he's got a full no-move clause. He's almost 30 years old, signed for a few more years, reasonable cap-hit, but not playing his best, hockey right now. And then you've got

Elias Pedersen. We all know the situation there. We know the situation with Brock Besser. Jake DeBrasse, full no move clause. You know what? I think if I were to say the most likely the guy to get move, it would be Jake DeBrask. But even then I'm like, okay, there needs to be more than that. There needs to be...

And also he's got a full no... Like, it might not be easy, but and also he's... I don't look at him and be like, that's the problem with the Connecticut's culture, Jake DeBrusk. I can't answer the question most likely because I have no idea what management is doing. I don't. I don't have any idea. The notion that they believe that several of these veterans are good players that are going to be good mentors is ridiculous to me.

It's the biggest takeaway from the weekend for me was that they believe that there are guys on this team that want to sit around and. and go through what is going to be a difficult process. It's going to be a lot more losing. And do it with a smile on their face and like show up, you know, enthusiastic to do the job every day. Yeah. And also like nurture a group that you're probably not going to be around to see the fruits of their labor.

It's a tall ask and it's a tough ask. Some guys are capable of doing it. But oftentimes it's guys you bring in for that explicit purpose. purpose. Not guys that you signed on the notion of we're going to be competitive. We have Queen Hughes and Rick Talkett. Think about some of these contracts that were signed. They were signed in another era.

And the era was only a few months ago. Totally different mindset. Think about how much has changed since Brock Fesser signed a contract in July. Everything's different. And they need to move on from anyone that they can. you can find But can they, will they be able to? If it gets down to

you have to start talking about bleeding assets to move out some of the deals, then you've got a conversation. But that's where you get fireable offense. When you're like, we have to tear it down, but we can't even tear it down in a conventional way because we have to pay to get a bunch of this crap off the book.

I have major concerns with Elias Pedersen being on this team in a rebuild. I really do. That's your highest paid player? Is that the guy? You're going to be like, the young guys are going to walk into the room? room and be like, who's our star here? That guy. Yeah, what does the highest paid forward on an

NHL team look like? That one over there. Yeah. Right? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, I use the word toxic before, but I think toxic has, this has been overused word. Corrosive is the word, like it just seeps into everything. You cannot tell me that the Liz Pedersen situation, whoever you blame for it, has not seeped into everything that happens with the Konaughey. Okay, and when we get, there has been one section of the pushback from fans and listeners and social media users. When they say, what do you expect them to do? They can't trade everybody at once. I get that.

I understand that you can't just say old Mike Keenan, 1997-98 season, let's just move everybody out. The landscape is too different and it's way more difficult. But I'm not going to give the organization a pass. for having a log jam of guys that are really tough to move out because they're underperforming with no movement clauses. That has to be a huge criticism of the manager group. You can't just say, well, their hands are tied. Yeah, they tied them.

They're like a magician that only got halfway through the trick. You're sounding like me now. You want your pound of flesh. There's some semblance. There's something to be said. It's not just vengeance. It's a recognition. that there were a large handful of critics and fans that were just like, you guys,

I'm not, I don't want to pick on individual deals here. But like the overall philosophy, people are like, oh, I don't, I don't know if this is the right way to do things. And then you get in this situation and you're upset and you're ranting and you're mad and people are like, why don't you give them some time to figure it out? I'm like, yeah, I don't feel that right now. No. You know?

No, not at all. Is it logical? Maybe not, but it's emotional. You're looking at this Canucks roster and the situation that they're in and with all the underperforming vets and understanding the salary cap and understanding the notion of negative value assets and going, how are they going to get their way out of this? There's lots more Canucks talk to come. McCartner is going to join us on the other side of the break.

You're listening to the Halford-Imbrough show on SportsNet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Strance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on SportsNet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. 34 on a Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. Halford and Brub SportsNet 650. Halford and Brub the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates.

Get out of the penalty box of debt and back into the game. financial fresh start. Visit them online of Sands dash trustee.com. We're in our two of the program with the midway point of the show. Ian McIntyre is going to join us on the road with the Vancouver Canucks

in just a moment here. Hour two of this program is brats by Jason hominock at Jason.orgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage and don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit them online at jason. To the phone lines we go,

our next guest, Great work on the road, by the way. Go check out all of his work at sportsnet.ca. Ian McIntyre, Kinnock's Reporter, joins us now on the Halford & Breath Show on SportsNet 650. Morning, I, Mac. How are you? I'm doing well.

I know that you guys appreciate me coming on, so I don't need to seek compliments. But the sacrifices I make for you is I've come to the Bell Center early to do this call, and now I'm accidentally watching the Canadians' morning skate. But because for the sake of radio, not only am I here in the bowl, I've moved down to the corner near the glass so that you get authentic hockey sounds during this segment. I was going to say that I can hear the sounds in the background. Hit the net, Hab. Yeah, geez.

Sure is that Kucks practice? Yeah. By the way, you know you're in a hockey town. I just watched a puck rim over the glass into the netting. And then it clattered between the, the netting in the glass, down onto the dasher in the seats, and landed about a foot beside a security guy standing under it who did not flinch. Not only did he not, like, quickly pick out the puck and look for somebody to give it to

or take it home. He didn't even move. It's like, ugh, puck, hockey. So, um, habs are skating right now. Canucks are going to skate at 8.30 this morning from the Santrebelle. We should talk about the Vancouver Canucks here because there's a lot that's going on. in the midway point of this road trip. You had a interview after the debacle in Toronto with President of Hockey Ops, Jim Rutherford. What was your biggest takeaway from what was a very expansive interview and very well written, by the way,

with the president of Hockeyops? Yeah, I'm not sure that there was anything new. Of course, you always wonder if there's going to be something earth-shattering out of these interviews and there wasn't. But I think what I wanted, to really get at is how broadly are they talking trade because they sent out that memo

or as they would say in Montreal a communique to other teams back in November that their UFAs were for sale and of course we've been talking about Kiefer Sherwood since then but I know that they've had calls on other players and I wanted to get a sense so what do they do with those calls?

They just move on or are they seeing? serious calls. And I guess my takeaway would just be that Rutherford confirming that, yes, they're listening to everything, that everything is on the table. And he didn't name names. And I'm just going to go ahead and say, well, they're not going to trade Uyam or V-Lander. But everything is on the table. They're willing to listen. And, you know, I think, you know, there are going to be more trades with this team before the deadline. There's not going to be anything like Quinn Hughes. but I don't think it's out of the question that there's another major trade or two beyond just the USA's. Did he express any anger or disappointment with how this season has played out?

The one thing that, you know, if I own the team and I was the one cutting the checks, I'd be watching guys like Pedersen and Besser and being like, what am I paying you guys for? Yeah. Well, I think they're all disappointed. I don't know about anger, because I can't, you know, I'm not in his position. So I don't know if that's an emotion that enters into it, but they're all, they're all disappointed, of course, and they're frustrated.

And I think on nights like Saturday and especially, maybe even this road trip, I think there's a, there's a degree of embarrassment. I know there is with the players. You know, I talk to them more than I talk to Rutherford or Patrick Alvin. but yeah, everyone in the organization is disappointed. I'm going to list off a bunch of players here. These are all veterans with term. Elias Pedersen, Brock Bessar, Jake DeBrasse, Connor Garland,

Philipperonic, Marcus Pedersen, Thacher Demko, and Kevin Lankinen. When Rutherford says we're going to listen on anybody, can you handicap the chances of them moving one or two or maybe three of these guys with term? Because I think a lot of fans are like, why is there the loyalty to some of these veterans that are not performing for this team despite the fact that they've been rewarded with a long-term commitment?

Yeah. Well, I mean, he has talked about, as you know, he's talked about, or I think yesterday, going back to Mike's question about the takeaway, he did explain what he thought, a hybrid meant, which is they're not shopping everyone, but they're basically listening. And as far as the guys on term, I think there's probably most of those guys they could move if the guys agree to move.

But you're obviously selling at distressed prices. So I think what you could achieve in that is you could clear cap space. I think you could get out of one or two of these contracts, but I don't think you're going to, you know, get anything back. And in some cases, you know, let's say Kevin Lankinen, clearly nobody's taking Kevin Lankin at $4.5 million. And maybe no one's taking Thatcher Demko at eight and a half for the next three years, but I do think there's a chance of that.

But with some of the guys, you'd have to retain salary as well. And then I think it becomes, a question for them is, well, what is what is the value? And clearly they're clearly, even though Rutherford said yesterday, the fact of the matter is we are in a rebuild. Clearly they're not just going to try to strip it down. There isn't going to be, as you Jason and a lot of other people would like to see, you know, the full, full on rebuild where you just get rid of, you just clear the debts, right?

And you get what you can get. I don't think they're going to do that, but I do think that they're, looking at moving on from another player or two. And, you know, I will say that Elias Pedersen's name was seriously discussed in trade. And this isn't news. A lot of people have reported this. It was discussed in trade at times in the last couple of years, or certainly last season. It was two calendar years ago now.

Coming up on two calendar years, he signed that contract. which of course coincides with his great decline. I think a lot of people thought, well, once July 1st came along and the no move kicked in, that they're now wed for better or worse, the Canucks and Pedersen. I don't know that that's the case. I think that they will check again to see what the market is

and what it would cost, I think. I think even with Pedersen's struggles, we know how desperate the league is for centers. We know how desperate the league is for top-line players. It's what the Canucks will be, are looking for as well. I think there's probably still a market for Pedersen. I don't know about 11-6 whether you'd have to retain, but I don't think that's out of the question.

That would be one thing I would say that's a name to keep in mind as we go forward here. For the listeners that didn't get to hear any of the post-game media availability or the quotes coming out of the room, can you let everyone know just how disappointed and upset and frustrated players were with Saturday's loss in Toronto? Because I think everyone understands that in order for the tank to occur, you need to lose a lot more games than you win. So mission accomplished on that front.

But there is a way that you lose that can be maybe damaging or maybe beyond the norm. Can you describe from, you know, Drew O'Connor calling it really disappointing to Kiefer Sherwood saying it's unacceptable. The veteran guys in the room, just how disappointing that result was on Saturday in Toronto. Yeah, I think they were embarrassed. And I think they understand, yes, losing is one thing, but you can lose in a lot more noble way, honorable way than the Kinnock's lost in Toronto. know, and for that matter, in Detroit, where, you know, they lost 5-1. These guys are, they understand what's going on. They're realists, even though as players, and obviously I'm generalizing here,

and not every guy is the same, of course, but as players, they don't get to this level without being fiercely competitive and confident in themselves and have almost universally at every level an overriding belief in the group in the team. And so even when things are going on like have gone on this year in Vancouver, there's still part of them that believes they could be a playoff team. I know that sounds ridiculous.

But that's how players, that's her players are wired. But they've also, especially the guys who have been around a few years, and you mentioned the three that I talked to after the game, Drew O'Connor, Kiefer Sherwood, Marcus Pedersen, they also are smart enough to understand what's going on with this pivot or transition or rebuild or whatever you want. And I think they're realistic about what this team can achieve right now. I mean, they've got three defensemen, 21 and under,

and they've got four first or second year forwards. who should be in the bottom half of the lineup, but with the injuries they have, they find themselves at times in the top half of the lineup. They're very aware of maybe what the ceiling is for the team right now, but those other things that I talked about, that they're wired with, that pride and that competitiveness and that belief in the team,

take a beating on nights like Saturday, and it upsets players. And so I think they were embarrassed by the score. They were really unhappy and disappointed in themselves with the effort. And, you know, I don't know what's going to happen tonight. It seems like the connexer. We've seen what we thought was the Nader a couple of times. And certainly that game on Saturday feels like the bottom so far of this season,

if that wasn't the Quinn Hughes trade. it wouldn't surprise me if they come back and and I'm not picking a Canucks one tonight but surely, surely the goodness, they've got to be better tonight than they were on Saturday and I think they will be. Right, so like Marcus Pedersen, for example, we've talked about him, he goes out,

and he's at a rough time this year, and he goes out, and he's fighting Max Domi, which he probably shouldn't have done, but he did it and you respect the fact that he stood up and took a licking quite frankly. And then in your article, he says to you after, words. I think the most telling quote from him was, I think we deserve to give each other more than this. I'm going to go out and suggest that when he says something like that, he's probably not talking about

Liam Ogren and D.P.D. and Z. Buiam, he's probably looking at his fellow veterans and saying, we deserve to give each other more than this. I think it's a condemnation of the other veterans on this team. When Pedersons out there getting tuned up in a fight in a 5-0-0 loss, and he's the one in the room saying, we need to give each other more than this. score on what 20 minutes of power play time? Or do or put in the shift that he put in quite frankly. Yeah and I would I would add

to that I think I think that's a fairly good perspective on it like I'd also say he's probably talking about himself as well sure that he knows he knows that he has to do more for the group and and be better

like I say the guys the guys understand it's one thing to lose it's another it's another to be embarrassed and nobody wants to be embarrassed. And, you know, with Pedersen as well, I'll just say this. And he's taking, taking a lot of heat, right? Like, he's the guy right now. You can say what you like about whether it was good or bad that they traded the pick

they got from the Rangers for Philip Roanick. But Roanick has been exactly what they wanted and more. For sure. And he's a first pairing defenseman. Pedersen is the guy who hasn't yet lived up. what they thought they were getting, which was a really good matchup second pairing guy. And sometimes he's that, but a lot of the times he hasn't been that this year. And I think he would recognize he needs to play better.

But in what he did on Saturday in fighting domi, you know how rare that is for a guy to go into a fight knowing he's probably going to lose, but doing it because, you know, whether it's penance for. himself, whether it's to get the team going, he's willing to do that. And so I looked back on hockeyfights.com, because I thought I figured, well, how many fights as Marcus

Pedersen had? It's actually had like 10 or 12 fights. Oh. But you look at, I encourage people to do this. Look at who he has fought. I mean, he fought, he fought Domi before where Domi basically jumped him.

He fought Nick DeLoree. He fought Jonah Gadget. He's fought a bunch of tough guys. So I think this is probably something that he has done for his team in his career, knowing that he may take a loss, but maybe in the end it's going to help the team. And I do think, and listen, I'm not saying that that's more important than, you know, the five-on-five play, because clearly it isn't.

But I am saying that there is some character to this guy. and I can understand why the Canucks believe that if they can just tune up his game a little, this is a character leadership kind of guy that they want young players to be around. One more before we let you go. As a writer, always looking for a story, do you do the Thatcher Demko story or is the fear that it's already been written? And this is just another chapter that sounds awfully a lot like the same chapters that preceded it. I'm afraid there is a lot of shameness to it. And as far as the Thatcher Demko story,

like until, and the conducts don't make their injured players available, I don't think there's anything any of us really have to add until Thatcher wants to talk about it. And, you know, he's a very, very bright, very thoughtful guy. He's not first in line. He's not putting his hand up when they're looking for volunteers to talk to the media. but you know it's there is a sameness to it and it's it's depressing is not the right word it's discouraging right because he's so important to this team we saw the way he started

the year until until his first injury that he was when he's on he clearly like with there's no argument when he's on he's clearly one of the the best goalies in the NHL. And he's so important to this team, but just can't stay healthy. And, you know, that's, that's another blow for Thatcher Demko. It's another blow for the team. It's a boost.

It's a boost for, you know, the, where they are in transition and their chances to drop higher. But it is, it is discouraging because, you know, we signed the extension. they still have such expectations for him, but he just can't stay healthy. And him not being able to stay healthy also affects him, I think, when he returns

because he's not really able to get rolling. I mean, his numbers, the last two years, forget the games played. I mean, he was an 8, 8, 8, 9, 7 this season. You know, it's really hard to get sharp at the NHL level when, you know, every little stint that you have is broken up by injury. Yeah, I mean, he's better, we know he's better than 8, 9, 7,

which has been skewed by nights like Saturday. And I think the other time he was hurt against Winnipeg, if I'm not mistaken, did he not give up three on six in the first period there as well? Something like that, yeah. I think, I think, I think it's just so hard for really anybody to come back in season. It's one thing if you're like he had the season he had last year to get really, ready over the summer and then come out and be sharp right out of right out of the gate like he was this year although he i remember talking to him just before that uh ill-fated washington

game which they won but they lost two of their three centers he was even surprised a little bit about how how good he was so early saying it was the best he's played in two years and that he didn't play in his words quote i didn't play a good game last year that's how he felt about it but then when he came back from whether that was a groin or whatever it was, it kept him out a month from early November into December, he was actually outstanding on the road track, like his first few games, but then his play deteriorated after that. And, you know, I think in hindsight there was a lot of emotion that followed that trade.

There was a lot of sudden clarity and motivation for play. players that helped them through that, you know, when they swept New York and then beat Boston in a shootout for their season high four-game winning street. And since then, I think there's just been a crash. There's been a crash. And I'm not just talking about Demko here. There's been a crash in emotions, wavering in sort of mental focus. And there's been a crash in performance. And that's where they are. That's where they are right now trying to stop this crash. And this was great of you to do.

Thank you very much for taking the time to join us today. Great rink side sounds as well. Enjoy the game tonight as much as you can. We'll do this again soon. Yeah, it's always a great place to come and watch a game or just rest from having, as I had did last night, eat a smoked meat sandwich with puteen and feel like I'm a boa constrictor that just consumed an elephant. I got to go find a rock to lie down on for the next three days.

Did you bring the tums with you? I would need the tums for that. No, I'll be going to the shopper's drug mart. Be well, Ian. Thank you. All right. See you guys. See you later.

Ian McIntyre on Sportsnet 650, a presentation of yard at a time concrete. Whether you're a contractor with a large job or a homeowner pouring a driveway, get a free quote for the creamiest concrete. I don't like that. Visit y-a-a-at-c-c-a-c-c. I don't know who wrote that.

A lot of construction workers like, you like it, it's extra creamy. Excuse me, do you guys have any of that creamy concrete? Has it ever been described as creamy? It has now. Does it actually say that? Yes, and yard at a time concrete.

It's the yacht, Y-A-A-A-T. The key ingredient is cream. Oh, we yatted some creamy concrete there. All right, we got to go to break. When we come back, Satyar Shah is going to to join the program. You'll hear Sat on our show. You'll hear them this afternoon on Canucks Central. You'll also hear them on the pre and postgame shows when the Canucks take on the Montreal Canadiens at 430 tonight. A reminder, it's an Amazon game tonight. So you should really, really tune in to Sportsnet 650 for all your Canucks related fixes pregame, postgame and the actual game.

It's all right here on Sportsnet 650. One final hour to go, Satyar Shah is going to join us next on the Halford and Brough show on SportsNet, 650. Another blow for Thatcher Demco. It's another blow for the team. It's a boost. It's a boost. What a freaking boost.