Halford & Brough in the Morning - Jays Steal the Show in LA

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

In hour one, guest hosts Josh Elliott-Wolfe and Jamie Dodd dive into the Whitecaps loss to LAFC, and if the officiating is to blame. Then, the guys recap the Jays thrilling win in LA yesterday and the Mariners hot streak. What can Canucks fans expect from the clubs' top prospects? Josh and Jamie analyze the most likely scenarios for players like Lekkerimäki, Willander, D Petey and more.  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Round ball to third. Barger to second, and the Blue Jays win the ball game. Mason Flew Hardy, with the two biggest outs of his last. Life. And the next pitch. One got belted. Deep to right field. The line shot. And it's gone. Goodbye baseball. There's number 45. And Cal Raleigh. Didn't waste any time. Good morning. Welcome to Halford and Brough. No Halfford. No Brough. Still. It's Josh Elliott Wolf and Jamie Dodd. Good morning, Jamie. Good morning. And we also have No-A-Dog. It's Elon in. Good morning, Elon. Good morning. Good morning. Laddie. You're still here. I'm still here. Hello, hello. One of four. Remaining Halbro component.

Just Laddie, the culture carrier. Finally, all that's left. We are coming to you live from the show to us, doing it now. We are coming to you live from the Kintech studio. Halford & Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates, B.C.'s first and trusted choice for debt help. With over 3,000 5-star reviews, visit sands dash trustee.com. And we are, of course, broadcasting live from the Kintech studio, Kintech, footwear, and orthotics working together with you in step. You can also text in on the 650.

6.50, Dunbar Lumber Tax Line, Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and Renault Warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dumbar Lumber.com. A lot to get into on the show today. You've been off for a while. I have, yeah.

So you missed a lot of stuff. I did. I missed a, like a golden summer sports radio week last week. I was jealous. It was a good run. We had Thomas Mueller. Yeah. We had Fickey and Ler.

Boko winning the MBO. What a time it was. Incredible. You missed all of it. I did. And now we're not even going to talk about it. I'm back for all the slow stuff now. Yes. We called in the closer. That's right. So today on the show, we are going to get into what happened over the weekend. But guest wires, we're going to speak to Jason Bukla at 7 o'clock from Sportsnet. We're going to talk prospects and the Halenka-Gretzky tournament starting today as well.

so we'll get into that with Bookes. Your guy at 7 o'clock. Love Booges. 730, Joshua Cloak from the athletic covering Canadian soccer and also he had a big piece up on Thomas Muller. So you do get to talk about him. Coming to Vancouver and how that all went down.

So we'll talk to Joshua at 7.30 about that. And then at 8, it's Jen Mueller from Root Sports. The Mariners have been real, real hot. Red hot. Seven in a row. They've only lost one game this month. And we'll also get into some Seahawks talk with her as well at 8. So working in reverse, Jamie.

There you go. At 8 o'clock, Jen Mueller from Root Sports, 7.30, Joshua Cloak from The Athletic. And at 7, it's Jason Bukla of Sportsnet. That's what's happening on the show. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened?

I missed all the action because I was. We know how busy. What happened is that? You missed that? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit BCCSA.com.

So we will start with the Vancouver Whitecaps without Thomas Mueller. No Thomas Mueller yet. He will be a week from now. You and Dan Riccio will be. Breaking down the big performance. And hopefully a win. This was not a win for the Vancouver Whitecaps against the San Jose earthquakes. It was a 2-1 loss and a controversial one because of referee shenanigans.

Yeah, Tim Ford. So first of all, sends a player off for the White Caps in the first half. And then there's a penalty given and not a penalty, just clearly not a penalty. They go to VAR and they're still like, yeah, no, we think that's a penalty somehow. that they award to San Jose. Credit to the white caps for tying the game, Brian White with the late one to tie the game. And it looks like, oh, man,

are they going to be able to salvage a point on the road from this one, even with all of the calls going against them? But San Jose gets the winner. And the conversation really coming out of this one. I mean, I think for me, there's two conversations. One is it's hard to care. I think even for the really committed whitecaps fans, too much about this result.

When you know, it's just, okay, but we want to get to the Thomas Mueller stuff. That's what we're focused on. That's what we want to see. We want to see how he fits, how he's going to impact the team, the big debut, all of it. This is just a stop on the way to that destination. The other conversation, though, is crooked Tim Ford, cost them another game, which is basically where it's going. And you and I were just chatting before the show.

And this comes up with the Knox all the time, right? Where it's like, oh, they never win when this ref is doing their games. He's got it in for them, right? and other teams in the NHL think that as well. And I always just think, always just assume the ref, the official, the ump, whatever is bad at their job. Never assume that they have it out for your team. Just assume that they're incompetent. And I think in MLS, that goes double.

MLS not known for having an incredible roster of Sterling sharp officials. So I get where this is coming from with the Tim Ford stuff and the way he refereed that whitecaps game. I'm just guessing he's not very good at his job. That would be my first assumption. The phrase, I think, is don't attribute to malice, what it's easily explained by incompetence. That's exactly what I'm going for. We did it for Tim Ford.

And so what's come up when it comes to Tim Ford in the past couple days, especially when it relates to the Vancouver Whitecaps, is you think back to 2023 in the playoffs against LAAFC, where he got in the way of a white cap trying to get back on defense the white cap fell it was an odd man rush the other way for LAFC just like they say in soccer

an odd man rush the other way and LA scored they win the game 1-0 and that ended the white cap season I'm in my element right now I am locked in so Jesper So yesper Sorensen did talk about Tim Ford

post game and he said you mentioned the penalty that definitely was not a penalty and he said, everybody who watched the game saw a man slip, one man saw a penalty. That's how it is. Luckily, we play with VAR, so they saw it differently, but then it was still a penalty. So that's what Sorensen had to say about that. He obviously wasn't upset, and then there were also multiple injured white caps,

like Ryan Gould, kind of questioning Tim Ford on social media. So obviously a lot of these players as well, not big fans of the referee again. They're not saying like, oh, it's, he's out to get the white caps. They might just be saying he is a bad referee. They're not saying that, but people on social media are very much saying that. And there were some pictures dug up of him going to LAFC games with his family as a supporter and cheering them on. And I mean, again, it's not a good look. I am pretty reluctant to hang, especially last night's result, I mean, or this weekend's result.

It's one thing if you want to go back to the playoff game and say, well, that's pretty fishy because it was against. L-A-F-C, but it's not like, I mean, L-A-FC is like eight points back of them in the standing. It's not like their neck-and-neck in the playoff picture or anything like that. So I think this was just a case of this happens in MLS. You get some truly, it happens in Conca Calf as well, right? Like you see it all the time, just some baffling, baffling refereeing decisions going against you.

And again, you know, I was kind of joking about, well, this is all just leading up to Thomas Mueller. But the thing with the Whitecaps is they've had such a successful season to this point that they can shrug off a result like that, especially on the road. And yeah, it's against a team. You'd love to beat and all that. But they're still second in the Western Conference, right? They still have a chance to win the Western Conference and put themselves in a really good position going into the playoffs. And especially now with the Thomas Mueller acquisition, it really feels like the rest of the season is about figuring out how you're going to use him, getting him acclimated, hopefully getting Ryan Gould healthy. and then just getting your ducks in a row to go on a long run

and try to win the MLS Cup. And the results from here until the end of the season aren't going to matter as much as setting yourself up for success once it turns to that point. Yeah. And so the only thing that I would bring up in terms of, you know, losing that game and what it means for the standing. So prior to that game, the White Caps,

and they do still have a game in hand on first place, San Diego in the Western Conference. But now they no longer lead on points percentage. So they're four points back, one game in hand. So it does get a little bit tougher to get the top seed in the Western Conference from here on out. But again, you mentioned that it is all kind of leading up to the debut for Thomas Mueller next weekend, August 17th, against the Houston Dynamo, which is going to be a game with a lot more attention on it. Before that, by the way, the Whitecaps do play the semifinal of the Canadian Championship against Laddie's Forge FC in Hamilton. You big Forge FC guy.

Forge, forge, forge. I know they're popular in Hamilton. It's too bad they couldn't get Mueller in for that one. The Forge players would be like, are you kidding me? This isn't fair. You have Thomas Muller now? Why did you bring him to Hamilton? Wow, they have to go to Hamilton?

Yeah. You bring him to Canada and then you force him to see Hamilton. He's not sticking around. First stop, Hamilton. Stop on the way. You're not coming to Vancouver first. You're stopping in Hamilton. We'll see you in Vancouver after.

He is, I believe, actually. Schuster said he was supposed to arrive on Thursday. So just missed it. Unfortunately. That's a tight. So they, like the game Saturday, no? Or Sunday. Sunday? That's a quick turnaround. Arrive on Thursday. He's a pro. I guess.

He's also around me like, guys, it's the MLS. I'll be fine. Don't worry. I can do this. Okay, so that's what's going on with the Vancouver Whitecaps and their schedule for the week, Wednesday, semis of the Canadian Championship in Hamilton. Sunday they take on the Houston

Dynamone, a big game, Thomas Mueller's debut. Hopefully, Tim Ford, I assume he's not. Probably not doing that one, yeah. Okay, moving on. The Jays, it was a tough start to the series against the L.A. Dodgers. L.A. won the first two pretty convincingly, and it was like, ah, you know what? Maybe the Jays had a lot of help when they were playing the Colorado Rockies.

Because the Rockies are very not good, and the Dodgers, most of the time, are very good. Or at least they have the upside. of being very good. The record maybe doesn't reflect their true ultimate talent level, but they're the Dodgers. We know how good they can be. But yesterday was a thriller. And the Jays came out on top.

It was five for the final result. It was a rare disappointing performance from Eric Lauer. He only made it through three innings, gave up three runs. Bullpen got tested. And it did feel like the Jays, they couldn't really get much going. the whole series and then they were down one run heading into the eighth inning seemed like it might be it for them

and then it was Vladdy hitting a solo bomb Addison Barger comes up next in a tie game he hits a home run Jay's on top in the top of the eighth and then they go into the bottom of the eighth Yariel Rodriguez says hold on let me give that lead right back and he walks in a run

game tied up four heading to the ninth inning and then it is do we have the clip of Ernie Clement hitting a solo home run. We do. Really put you on the spot. But here we go. Ernie Clement

hits a solo home run in the top of the ninth. And the pitch to Ernie Clement. Swing and a high drive. Left field. Moving back to the fence. It's out of here. Ernie Clement with a go-ahead shot

on the first pitch of the ninth and the Blue Jays lead again. Five to four. And so you might think, wow, that's the end of the drama for the Toronto Blue Jays. Ernie Clement. hits a home run in the top of the ninth.

No, Jeff Hoffman, he stumbles his way through a few batters to load the bases with one out. Surely nobody dangerous is due up. Oh, my goodness, it's Shohei Otani. And Jeff Hoffman gets pulled because he was struggling to find the zone. Mason Flew Hardy, he comes in in a huge spot. Not usually who you want to come in in a huge spot. He has a nine-pitch strikeout of Shohei Otani,

He gets mooky bets to ground out, earns his first career save, and the Jay's, uh, they wrap up the series with a win in LA. And that moment against Otani in particular, I know it wasn't the final out of the game. He gets bets after it, but I mean, you've got to show Hey Otani coming up, bases loaded. You're leading by a run in the ninth inning. In the regular season, it doesn't get much bigger, more high profile than that. And I saw after the game, Flew already said, I basically blacked out. I don't know what I was doing there. And even, I mean, the final, the pitch he got him on, like, it's well outside the zone, right?

he fooled Otani and got him to swing on it. If Otani lays off, he's walking in the tying run. Took guts to throw that pitch. No kidding, right? Like, he's not, he wasn't like, oh, I'll just throw a strike and pray here. He's like, I'm trying to get this guy out, and he did it. And it succeeded. And that, by the way, Jeff Hoffman, five walks in two thirds of an inning of work.

Not great. That's a record, by the way. But gets credit for the winner. That's the record. It's the first pitcher in MLB history to walk five batters in fewer than one inning and get the win. And get rid of the win. I'd be like, guys, you're welcome. I won the game.

Chalk one up for the Hoffman. You guys, is the win stat for pitchers a little bit flawed? You know, I chalk the dub up for Jeff Hoffman in this one. He got it done. Yeah, maybe just slightly flawed. They obviously really needed that one to salvage the series and avoid the sweep. And I think if they had got swept, and maybe this is still the conversation coming out of the series. But just if they had got swept and the way their bats were struggling to really get anything going through the first two games,

and really until late in the third game as well, it all would have been about the dichotomy between the Rockies series and just how absolutely ridiculous and hilarious that was. And then, oh, and then you go play a real team and all of a sudden it looks a lot different. I do still have concerns about the ultimate ceiling for this Jay's team. Like they feel a little bit still like a scrappy team punching above their weight. And that's great and that can be really fun to watch.

And obviously they've had a really impressive season so far. but you know yesterday it's mason flew hardy coming in ernie clement hitting the go-ahead home run are those the types of players you want to be relying on in october you need those contributions sure but i feel like it's been a lot of you know eric lauer mason like guys like mason flue hearty clement nathan lucas right like joey low perfidos had moments and i i am a little concerned about is that kind of pixie dust going to wear off at a certain point i think it's really hard to ride that kind of team makeup to a world series victory unless you have just elite pitching. Now, on the other hand, Vladdy has been really heating up since the all

to start break. He has a double and a home run, a huge clutch home run. If he continues to be on fire and the power really finally starts to come for him, then I think you're talking about, okay, if he's that kind of superstar bat in the middle of the order, it makes all of the other like hey we've got a different guy contributing every day and hey we play small ball and all that it makes all of that stuff more palatable if you have the really legit bat in the middle of the order so i think as it so often does it comes down to can vladdie be one of the best hitters in baseball for the next couple of months here if he can then i think they've got as good a shot as anyone i would agree and and the thing i've been kind of talking about with the jays is like it feels

it's great when you watch them and they're playing small ball and they're working in runs they're doing all that but you do want it to like you want to have the guys that can like hit a home run and a clutch home run

and like kind of finish the rally and that's kind of what I want to see more of from Vlad and obviously we'll see what actually happens come playoff time but it feels like his approach has been for most of the season he's like I'm one of the guys on the team

and that's really good like you look at his numbers and they are they're awesome He hasn't had a bad season whatsoever, but you do expect more from him. And maybe it's unfair to expect more from him, considering how good his numbers have been. But I think it mainly just comes down to like, hey, hit a few more home runs. And people will be fine. And he's done that since the all-star break, to his credit.

Like his numbers are outstanding since the all-star break. And I don't expect him to keep quite up at that pace. But if he, again, it's the difference between being, you know, like an all-star and a fringe MVP candidate. And he's not going to get into the MVP conversation this year, obviously, with what judge is doing and what Cal Raleigh is doing. But if he can play at kind of that pace, which we've seen him do before for a couple of months, it completely changes the dynamic for the Jays. So the Jays do lose the series. They have today off. They start a series against the Chicago Cubs in Toronto tomorrow, who have been pretty good this season as well. Jays do still sit

atop the American League with a one game lead, four games up on the Boston Red Sox. Do you know how I know they're a good team? How's that? Because the last week and a half felt extremely painful, and they're six and four in their last 10. That's how you know they're a good team. I know the Rockies helped with that, but even if they lose one of the Rockies, that's still a 500.

And it felt like they couldn't do anything outside of that Rocky series. I'm a little less worried than you guys. I wouldn't say I'm super worried, but I do have some question marks that'll probably just persist until we see what actually happens in the playoffs. I do want to see it with Springer back in the lineup

as well, right? Because he's been so good for them, and that makes a big difference. having that extra legitimate power bat in the lineup. Yeah, moving on, the Seattle Mariners, we mentioned. They have won seven in a row, and they completed a sweep of the Tampa Bay raise yesterday. They've won nine of ten in the month of August, and they've been doing this with their big deadline acquisition, Gino Suarez, struggling at the plate. He has one home run, five RBI, batting just slightly over 100 in 10 games since coming back to Seattle.

So more to give there, but the pitching, that's what's been the strength for the Mariners this month. They're holding opponents to an average under 200. They've been really good in the month of August. And the question for me has come up, Jamie, of like, when you look at the American League, there aren't a lot of standout teams, right? We talk about the Blue Jays. They're first right now, and we just outlined all the – We went through all of their flaws.

Yes, all the question marks around them. and you can maybe bring up a team like the Tigers. I mean, Terrick Scoobel is someone I trust, but again, I don't know if I trust the Tigers as a whole. Come playoff time. Astros, they loaded up. Maybe they're intimidating. But I do look at the Mariners,

and I kind of wonder if they have the most potential of any of these teams come playoff time in the American League. So you put that in the rundown, and I was looking at it, and my initial knee-jerk reaction was like, come on, Josh. Like, get serious. Stop being dumb. It's the Mariners. But you're right.

You look at it. And the AL is just so wide open at this point. There's really no team that you look at and think, oh, they're head and shoulders above everyone else. Right. And Detroit looked like that team for a while. And Scoobel, of course, is an incredible weapon to have at the top of your rotation. But I think similar to the Js, it's not like they have the clear cut, you know, All-Star MVP-type bat in the middle of their lineup, right?

They've got question marks. They've got question marks elsewhere in their rotation as well. They've also, like, since July 1st, they're like six. games under 500 or something. So there's they've in this long stretch of of subpar baseball. I mean, the Yankees have completely crashed out. They're in, in danger of missing the postseason at this point. Like the Red Sox got really hot. Similar to the J's had that really hot stretch, but also a flawed roster. I do agree with you about the Astros being a potentially really interesting team, especially after getting Correa back at the deadline. But the Mariners, all of a sudden,

with the season that obviously what Cal Rally is doing to anchor the lineup, but then you look at Julio Rodriguez having, you know, a decent year, a Rosarena having a good year at the plate. Nailer's been a really great fit there early. If Suarez gets it going, all of a sudden, as you say, like, that lineup's better than they've had in a long time. And we know what they're pitching can do, what they're starting pitching can do for the Seattle Mariners. I think you're right at least to say, like, there's no reason you should be looking at the Mariners as clear underdogs against any of the other team. And it feels like, we'll see what the bracket ultimately ends up being,

but it feels like there's going to be a lot of coin flip series in the A.L. Where it's like, yeah, both these teams are interesting but flawed and everyone has a chance here. Yeah. And again, for the Mariners, for me, you mentioned it. The lineup is deep and especially if they do get Svara's going. And then the pitching, the starters, like if you roll out in a series, Brian Rue, Luis Castillo, Logan Gobert, like you're in a pretty good spot. And we'll see what the, the mariners are able to do and you're right what the bracket shapes out to be right now they would

take on the red socks and red socks are pretty hot but the the mariners are even hotter so it's uh it's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out but this is the this is the year that i look at for the mariners and i'm like this is your shot well there's got to be so much i mean i'm certainly from the fans there has to be so much desperation almost for them to take advantage of this year but you got to think even internally when you see your teammates having the kind of magical year that Cal Rally is having. And you know about the frustrations to kind of get over the hump. Yeah, they've been to the playoffs and they beat the Js, but it never really went any.

You know, I think they got swept after that and they haven't been back. There's been so much frustration with this team. I think even internally, there must be an awareness of we can't let this go to waste. We, okay, the front office finally stepped up, went out. They were aggressive. They added bats for us, which is exactly what we needed. You know, everyone pretty much looked at Suarez and said that is the perfect fit for the Mariners the front office goes out and gets them you have the pitching like if it's if it doesn't

happen if you're not at least going to the ALCS this year I think both from the fan base in Seattle but probably also internally there's got to be a sense of like if we couldn't do it this year when are we going to do it like it does seem like the stars are aligning for them yeah uh okay so the mariners they are off today as well but they start a series in Baltimore Baltimore against the Orioles that Baltimore Baltimore that's how the local sit sure In Baltimore against the Orioles tomorrow. And they'll be on a bit of an extended road trip. So that's what's going on in the world of baseball.

On the other side, we will talk Canucks. Let's do it. And a prospect conversation because we have Jason Buchla on at 7th. So we will have some conversations of our own surrounding some of the Canucks prospects on the other side. It is Halfer and Brough. No Halfer, no brough. It's Josh L.A. Wolf, Jamie Dodd on SportsNet, 650. Welcome back to Halford and Brough.

It's Josh L.A. Wolf and Jamie Dodd coming to you live from the Kintech Studio. You can text in 650-6-50, the Dunbar-Lumber text line. Howford and Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates. A Consumer Proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit sands dash trustee.com. What theme is it today? What's Monday? The retro throwback 80s.

It's Brough's favorite day. Yeah, I'm bad. He yearns for the 80s. Mondays are tough. Finally, you're playing some hip current music on the show. Mondays are tough, so we try to ease Bruff into the week. That's why we're doing that. That's what we're doing for Jamie here too.

Back from vacation, he's got to ease into it. And what better way to ease into her than by talking about the prospect system for the Vancouver. Some real meat and potato sports radio here. Back to basics, baby. And back to basics here on the Halperna Brough show at 6.30 a.m. We will talk Canucks prospects on August 11th. And the reason we're doing that is because in half an hour, we're going to talk to Jason Buchla from SportsNet, obviously very in tune with what's going on in. the world of prospects, former head scout in the NHL.

So why don't we start with, we'll start with the big names and kind of work our way down through the system. And I kind of have questions about each and every individual players. So we'll start with, we'll put Willander and Leckermackie together. And my question is, what are fair expectations for each of them this season, whether it be at the NHL level or an average? So let's start with Leckermackie because we've seen. him he's got a taste of you know he's got a pro year under his belt in north america he's got a taste

of n hl action as well i think there's a still a lot of very high expectations from the fan base for jonathan lecker macky and you know if you told me is there a world where he scores 20 goals in the n hl yeah i think there's a world where that happens but if we're talking about expectations reasonable expectations you still look at the for all of the talk about how this team needs to improve the forward group. If you look at the depth chart on the wings, it's pretty crowded, right? With Brockbess are coming back, the addition of Evander Kane, Jake Debross, Connor, Garland. I mean, that's four clear top six options right there. And then you get into the Nealz-Hoglanders and the Drew O'Conners and the key for surewoods. There's not a lot of obvious ice time

left to account for on the wings. That doesn't mean he can't stake a claim for some of those minutes or even bump some of those players that I mentioned and challenge for those minutes. I just think it's going to be very difficult for him to do so. So I think reasonable expectations are, hey, can he carve out just a full-time NHL role? A full-time role where he's getting like 12 minutes a night. You know, we've seen him. I think he has some utility on the power play, maybe not on the first unit, but at least second unit power play, something like that,

and be a regular contributor. And I'm not even going to put like a number of goals or points on it, but I think just a regular in the NHL lineup, if that happens and the production is, you know, passable, not a disaster from that standpoint. I think that has to be looked at as a successful stepping stone building block campaign for Leckermackie. It did feel like there was going to be a spot for him in the top six because it felt pretty obvious that Brock Besser wasn't going to be Vancouver Canuck. Then obviously things changed. Besser comes back and who knows if Leckermackie

would have been ready to take that role anyway, but it at least felt like there was a hole there for him to try to seize the opportunity. But yeah, you mentioned that there are, it's a log jam on the wings for the Vancouver Canucks. And obviously, injuries happen, stuff will the rise as the season goes on. And hey, maybe the Canucks are still looking to trade for a center. And if that center opportunity comes up,

maybe you have to take away from the wings to improve your center position. That could open up a spot for Lekker Mackey. I think it's worth noting with Lekar Mackey as well. the way the Calder Cup playoffs went and you know him out of the lineup and there's the mouth the jaw stuff or whatever and you know even when he was healthy maybe not a first choice to be in the lineup as they go on and win the Calder Cup I think it left a bit of a sour taste in fans mouths but it's worth remembering he had 19 goals and 36 games of Abbotsford in the regular season that is for his age in the a HL that's an incredibly successful season so don't let the wave at it

it ended color how we're looking at lecker mackie's last season that was a really really positive step for him and i think when i'm saying you know hey you shouldn't put any expectations in terms of goals or 15 goals or 20 goals or whatever that's not a reflection on anything he did poorly last year that's just a reflection on it's really difficult to make that jump from the hl to the nchl so if he's spending significant time in the a hl i'm sure there's things about rounding out his game and being a more complete player that'd love to see him and you'd hope that he could take that next step of production, even the NHL level,

but that's tough to do considering he was already extremely productive at that level. Yeah, I almost just want to see him be as dominant as he can for as long as he can in Abbotsford. And then like, hey, just make it unquestionable that you deserve a spot at the NHL level. And then also when you get there, like you do have to show, we saw it on the power play this season. Like there were signs of like, hey, he can be something and he can do something

on the power play. but we didn't really see that as much five-on-five. So I do want to see that translate more to the five-on-five side for Lekromacky, and maybe that's something that he tries to develop a little bit more in Abbotsford. You mentioned them going on the run, and while that was great, you get the playoff experience, I am worried about, like, he's someone that we talked a lot about, like, you have to gain size and get bigger.

And I don't know how much time he's going to have, especially because he has dealt with various injuries throughout the season, how much time he's going to have to actually, gained some muscle and come into camp and like just being a bigger dude. So we'll see how he comes into camp. If he has made surprising leaps in that aspect, that would be huge.

But I do wonder as well if there's maybe a focus on that for him to start the season and maybe, you know, you slow play him a little bit. The thing I've wondered about is like, does he start the season in Vancouver not playing too much but trying to gain a little bit of size and work his way into the lineup as the season goes? on. Kind of give him like an extended

off. Yeah, give him the chance to kind of really work and do some training and hit the gym and all that. I do think the most likely scenario especially because he doesn't have to go on waivers or anything. So you have that easy option as he starts the year in Abbotsford. And then you see kind of how your team develops, who pops, who doesn't, how he's doing in the

H.L. And especially if this team is as kind of desperate for goal scoring punch, as it looks like they might be and we think they might be. As you say, you hope that he just kind of makes it undeniable and makes him the clear cut option to come up and help punch up the offense at some point. Okay. So the other guy, Tom Willander, what do you, like, is he just going to spend

I think the whole season in Abbotsford? Like, big minutes in Abbotsford. That's a reasonable expectation for me. I think any, if you are expecting him to come in, like, hey, he's going to be a great partner for Quinn Hughes or him and Marcus Pedersen are going to be our second pair by the time March or April rolls around. Like, top four minutes in the NHL is such a big bar to clear for a young defense. And for any defenseman, like even look at Tyler Myers. Veteran over a thousand games in the NHL when he goes from third pairing role to top four role.

You see the seam start to show, right? So for Tom Vlander to come in and immediately jump up to that kind of role for the Canucks is going to be, I think that's just an unreasonable expectation. Again, when you're talking about prospects, you never know how someone's going to pop. You never know when that big developmental leap is going to happen.

So I don't want to rule it out. But if you're pinning your hopes or you're saying, hey, they can trade this guy because they've got Tom Vlander ready to step into a top four role, I think that's just way too much too soon and if you like it's his first pro season in North America you want him developing as much as possible

it's entirely possible but that means he's just a top guy a top pairing guy for Abbotsford all year plays in all situations gets to work on every facet of his game you have the depth on the blue line right now or at least the pieces on the blue line it's not like you need to fit him in it's not like you're thinking oh man we're really sure

we don't have a lot of talent up here we got to find a way to get this guy in the line lineup. You have the luxury of starting him and potentially keeping him in Abbotsford. And that should not be looked as a disappointment. That should be looked at as a good thing for his development if he does play that role well in Abbotsford all year. Yeah. And I do think there's an argument to be made that he could be like 10th on the defense depth chart for the Vancouver Canucks when you factor in. So Quinn Hughes, Heronet, Marcus Petterson, Tyler Myers, Derek Forbert, Elias Pederson, who we'll talk about shortly, P.O. Joseph. Of course. Can't

forget him. No. Victor Mancini and Creel Kudriatsv. And you can maybe make a conversation, like make the case that you would have Wollander over those two. And I might too, but in terms of trying to optimize development, like you might prioritize getting Mancini into the NHL

because you don't mind him playing on the third pair, less minutes, because you care a little bit more about Wellander's development than you might about someone like Mancini, and that's not to say they don't think they have something in Mancini, but obviously Wollander has the higher upside. And then Kudriyov has obviously shown a decent amount in Abbotsford, too. So I kind of feel like they might try to get him some games at the NHL level this season,

especially considering what he did for the Abbotsford Canucks during their playoff run and throughout the season. So yeah, I don't think there's a rush to get Wlander into the NHL. And again, if he makes it undeniable, then it's like, wow, this is great. You have another piece that can play meaningful minutes for you at the NHL. And your point about him being behind like a guy like Victor Mancini, I think at this point of the calendar, you know, before training camp, before exhibition, it's undeniable, but he's behind him on the training.

Like, Mancini's played in NHL games. He's played in initial games for Adam Foote, right? And I think you always have to factor in that familiarity, that trust factor with coaches and especially first time NHL head coach like Adam Foote. I'm not saying he's going to be reluctant to play Tom Vlander, if Tom Vlander's performance demands it. And again, this could all change with a great training camp showing.

With great showings in the preseason, he could jump over someone like Victor Mancini. But right now, I think it's clear cut that Mancini would be ahead of him four minutes in the NHL, ahead of him in the packing order, just because he's done it. He's just that extra year or two advanced in his career compared to Villander. Okay, moving on, the guy that we kind of just factor in to the NHL roster, Elias Pedersen. It's kind of like, I feel like we don't talk about. Is he a prospect? It's an interesting question.

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like we don't talk about him as a prospect. but he's still 21 years old, made his NHL debut last season, and he has been, it's almost like we consider him just like a really safe option. And maybe we put too much stock in him a little bit.

Maybe I'm just talking about myself. But I do wonder, like, what's the highest upcase scenario for Elias Pedersen this season? Like by the end of the season, if everything goes right, what role could he be playing? What kind of impact do you think he could be having with Vancouver? I think top four is in the cards.

I think so, too. If everything goes right and now, look, he's got what? How many NHL games under spell? 28 NHL games, right? So you never know. Are we looking at a potential kind of sophomore slump? You know, we always say development isn't linear. So you never know how it's going to go.

But I don't think it's out of the question at all. When you consider how polished he looked and the physical element he was able to bring, that he is going to be someone, the coaching staff starts to lean on more and more as the season goes on. Like that's the path to me is that he just keeps demanding more minutes, more ice time. I think the big question for him also will be

how does he come along as a penalty killer? Can he check those boxes to make Adam foot and company comfortable putting him out in those situations? But like I don't think you're being unreasonable to get that excited about him. His showing was really, really impressive. You know, he only had three points in 28 games. I think there's

more offensive upside with his game as well. And then you add in the physicality and the defense and the mobility and all of it. Like that's that's a three four defender we're talking about in the future. Again, maybe it doesn't happen this year. There's no guarantee that he gets there. But we saw enough from him that I don't think this is just, you know, clinging at hope, false hope in a bad season. Like I think there were legitimate signs there that there's a very right future ahead of him, at least possible. And again, top four by the end of the. the year because right we're talking about obviously hughes horonick marcus peterson is the clear cut top three guys and then we expect tyler meyers to get a lot of minutes there and i know he is a left

shot defenseman d pd but we've seen them already play him on the right side there's going to be an opportunity there's going to be an opportunity for him to jump up and claim that kind of final top four spot and i think that last point is is the big one like he has played the right side if we were just talking about a guy that you know they tried him on the right side didn't really work It would be a more difficult conversation because obviously Quinn Hughes is going to always be your top defenseman. Marcus Pedersen, he's a difficult guy to unseed and they made the trade, they paid him, they gave him the contract. I think he's legitimately a top four defenseman and someone that might get a little more appreciated this season based on, you know, having a full season and seeing what he's able to do, especially if the conducts are good, he's going to be the kind of defenseman that people are like, oh, man, he's just steady and he's great. I do think you want Elias Pedersen to have a similar type of feel

where it's like, you know what, you just, you feel kind of safe when he's on the ice. And also from a broadcaster point of view, I do want to see there's the chaos of Marcus Pedersen and Elias Pedersen together. Well, that's his path. And honestly, it's probably going to be his path to minutes early in the season is playing on his offside next to Derek Foreboard. So he's going to have to get used to playing on his right side

and they seem comfortable with it. And that's the obvious spot, isn't it? Right? Like if he really, if he clearly is out playing Tyler Myers, then you're going to put him up with Marcus Patterson and we will have the Pedersen Pedersen pairing. The dream. The dream. What options? So what options open up if he, let's say, buy the trade deadline, he's like, hey, I'm a top four to Pinsman. And there's no questions about it. Your top four is essentially locked down for the, at least the following season. And we'll see what happens with Quinn Hughes. Then you could look at extending Elias Pedersen as well. and then you could really have that top four locked in for a while.

Then the conversation of like, what do you do with Tom Allander comes up? And do you move someone else to make room for him? Is that is that? Now, do you want to be making any long-term decisions about your blue line pre-quin Hughes? Yeah, probably not. Like pre-the-quin Hughes decision. I actually know what, yes, I do.

All right. Because if you are good next season, if you are like legitimately a playoff team by the deadline, I think you need to show him if you want to sign him in, next off season that you are legitimately trying to make a run at it. And I don't think, like, yes, it would be a risk if you trade Tomolander. I'm not trying to dispel that at all. Classic Josh, ship this guy out of here. Run him out of town.

But I do think that there's a world where like, hey, you trade Tomillander. We've talked about guys like Mason McTavish or Marco Rossi. Someone of that ilk, if you trade for a young player who can make an impact for you, I'm not saying a rental, but make an impact for you for a wilder. I would definitely be open. Yeah, a player with term, team control, young player, as you said, that's a completely different question because that is relevant whether or not Quinn Hughes stays. You know what I mean?

Like if you go out and get Mason McTavich, that's not a desperation play to convince Quinn Hughes to stay. That's just a good young player you're taking a bet on and you'll want that even if Quinn Hughes decides to leave, right? So I have no problem whatsoever with that. I don't know that DPD's performance is going to significantly change. the calculus on Tom Volander, right? Because you have these other defensemen prospects in the system as well that you're going

to be monitoring. And I think ultimately it's going to come down to, A, like, what Villander's doing, how his stock is trending and how excited they are about him, but also what the team's doing. Like, I think you make a good point. If you are, if you're having another dream season and maybe not quite to the heights of a couple of years ago, but you know, you're in the mix for top three in the division, you're a clear cut playoff team, all of those things. I think we know Jim Rutherford and Patrick Elven are not going to be shy about

being aggressive at the deadline. I don't think that will mean Tom Blander for a rental. I don't think we're going to see something like that. But if they're in that situation, I don't know if it matters what DPD is doing or what Victor Mancini is doing, like, if Tom Blander for as the centerpiece for a Mason McTavish type comes up and the Canucks are good. I think they'll consider it. Absolutely. Yeah. And I guess like when I talk about McTavish, it's like if the ducts came to you right now and they were like, hey, Wollander is the centerpiece for Mason McTavish. I would do it right now. Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. It's, uh, it's, it's, it's, Again, I probably wouldn't move him for a rental.

I definitely wouldn't move him for a rental, but I am open to moving him. And I do think that option becomes easier if someone like Elias Pedersen does show throughout the season that he can handle top four minutes and seems like you can kind of project him there long term. Another guy that we kind of just factor into the roster, and I kind of think he has to make the roster this season

and have an impact, Atu Ratu, who, again, the Canucks, if he haven't heard, They lack center. Don't have a lot of centers. So he plays center. That's a big win for him. What I want to see from Ratu this season, and I've talked about it throughout the off season, I want to see him be a legitimate, like, PK, ace.

Okay. Like, I want to see him have a big impact on the penalty kill. Maybe not the first guy over the boards, but maybe the first guy, because you factor in his face-off capability, getting a face-off wind to start almost every PK would be huge. So him taking on a more defensive-minded role, this season. And kind of filling in, like, I want him to be, I guess, a higher upside Teddy Bluger this season. Hopefully a lot higher upside.

Hopefully a lot higher upside. But this season, you mean, not for his career. Yeah. Because the thing with Ratu is they are relying on him. Like, this is not a, hey, can he, can he claim more minutes? Or can he have a really great camp and find a spot on the team? It's like, he might be their number three center right now. Yeah.

And we'll see. I'm sure they still want to go out and make an addition there and bolster the depth chart. But number three center, and that's behind, you know, Philippeal at number two. And we all know about the injury concerns and his problem staying healthy and all that. We don't need to talk about Elias Pedersen at 1C right now. Like they desperately, desperately need Atu Ratu to not just be an NHL player, but be like a legitimate, productive top nine player.

And I think it's a good shout about the PK and you got to have guys checking those boxes, especially if Pugh-Suit are leaving. You'd love another really reliable P.K. to have to as a weapon, they need him to be productive. Like he like just it maybe it's not fair to Atu Ratu considering the path his pro career has taken. But with what he showed late in the season at the NHL level, the way he's produced at the HL level, like this is not a case where it's like, hey, just go out and be a regular and let the production come if it does. But who cares? It's like, no, you got to

score 15 goals, man. They are relying on him to be a legitimate productive 3C who's more of and just killing minutes out there who can help make things happen for his line and again maybe that's not fair to atu ratu but the makeup of the team kind of demands that those are our expectations for him okay before we hit the break are there any other prospects that you are especially interested this i mean it's got to be brayton coots right like they made the draft pick which was shocking who knew did not see that coming whatsoever but first round CHL center it's always kind of fun to follow that type of player, right? It's so accessible, especially he's playing in the dub. You can go see him at the Langley Events Center when he comes play the Giants. It's just so much easier to kind

of track and feel like you have a handle on what's going on with those prospects. And it's been so long since they invested a really significant draft pick in a center. There's a lot riding on Braden Coots. It completely changes how the prospect pipeline looks, how the future at center looks, depending on what he does this year. And I think, the questions for me with Coots are does he get a shot at the World Juniors this year for Team Canada and can he pop offensively? You know, his

offensive numbers not eye catching for a first round pick at center in the WHL, but you talk to scouts and you hear scouts talk about him and there's the idea that there's actually a lot more offensive upside there. Can he make that a reality? Can he really pop and get

on that trajectory where you're thinking okay, hey, maybe as early as next season the one after this one, you know, 2026, 2027, could he be a legitimate NHL option? Can he get on that type of path as early as this year? Because again, it's been a long time since the Canucks have had this type of prospect in the WHL, in the CHL to follow, especially at center. And I think he's going to be really interesting to track this year. The other one, and as we talk about the what do guys do on the blue line and does that change the calculus of who you're willing to move, I think kind of under the radar is

Sawyer Minio, who doesn't get lumped in. with the group of guys who have already turned pro and already started playing in Abbotsford or either at the NHL level, which makes sense, right? He was playing in the dub. He'll make the jump to Abbotsford this year. But I think the team is pretty high on him. And I think scouts are pretty high on what he was able to do

as well as a former third round pick. So that's a guy I'm very, very interested to see. How does he transition full time to the pro game, full time to the AHL? And does he insert himself into this kind of conversation when we're talking about, oh, all these young defensemen, if they have, are we going to have to start including Sawyer Minio in that as well?

Yeah, and if you can have some of these guys outside of the first round, pop, like we've seen with Elias Pedersen, if you can get a similar level of pop, and maybe not to the same impact, but, you know, an NHL caliber player in the third round. Like, that's a huge win. Makes a huge difference. And we could talk to Bookes about this on the other side,

his thoughts on Sawyer Minio, and other Canucks prospects that we've talked about in the past half hour. We'll talk to Jason Bukla from Sportsnet. On the other side, it is Halperdon Brough, Josh L.8 Wolf, Jamie Dodd, filling in here on Sportsnet 650.