Halford & Brough in the Morning - Kevin Woodley Talks Canucks + Mark Lazerus On Avs-Stars

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

In hour three, Mike & Jason chat the latest Canucks news with NHL.com & In Goal Magazine's Kevin Woodley (1:10), plus they look back at a wild Avalanche vs. Stars series with The Athletic NHL's Mark Lazerus (27:30).  This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

801 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough Sportsnet 650. Halford Brough of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit them online at Sands-Trustee.com. We are in hour three of the program now. Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and Ingole Magazine is going to join us in just a second here to kick off hour three. Hour three is brought to you by Campbell & Pound real estate appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell & Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell-pound.com today.

We are coming to you live from the Kintex studio, Kintex footwear and orthotics working together with you in step. To the phone lines we go. He has a presentation of White Rock Hyundai here on the Haliford and Brev show on Sportsnet 650. It's Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and Ingole Magazine. What up, Kev? How are you?

I'm good. How are you guys? We're pretty good. I know there was a lot of crazy hockey over the weekend, but I do want to start with the Vancouver Canucks ownership story because I know you've been reporting a little bit on it. What did you make of the news that Paolo Aquiline is no longer part of the ownership group?

I guess not surprised and not really something like to be honest, we would report on, but one of those things that you've heard has been a reality for frankly, a while. I don't know if you've heard has been, you know, a reality for frankly, a while. I don't know if the disappearance, I don't know if there's been enough something that changes officially. Obviously, the disappearance of his name on the website triggered the media. But to be honest, we'd heard it for like at least over a year. And the trigger to me that it may, if not official was pretty much done, would have actually been the, uh, Elias Patterson presser, which was the

last time we heard from Francesco. And if you go back and listen to that presser, cause I know a few of our eyebrows raised when he spoke, it was not brothers. It was singular. Um, when he spoke about what that meant to his family, he spoke about his dad and his brother singular, very pointedly. And so, you know, to me that was sort of the, okay, well this is everything we've been hearing sort of matches up and, you know, I've seen certainly the Canucks are still very active.

Obviously all the charity work they do and still part of CAN, but I think people that have participated in the program and in some of the fundraising around it have seen just a dwindling of support from the team itself over the past couple of years. I know certainly participants of the Autism Network Tournament, things like that. And that's obviously something that he started. They still support it financially through the 50 50, but the actual sort of hands on seems to have dwindled. Haven't seen Palo out there, whereas he used to be a regular presence when it

first started. So obviously there's some changes around the team and I won't pretend to know why or what, what goes on behind the scenes, but certainly whatever made it news now or official now, I think the fact that there's been this, this, you know, split or, or change in, in how it's structured amongst the brothers is not a surprise. And like I said, it, I mean, anytime you sort of speak publicly and have multiple brothers that used to be owners and then just basically say one's name.

I mean, it's possible it was a misspeak, but it was, it seemed, it seemed kind of hard to miss to be honest with you. Yeah. I guess Canucks fans are wondering if this, if this means anything for the team. Um, I guess the one narrative that would be out there is that if Paolo Accolini wants out of the

family business, does he require a big payout? And if he does, how do the Canucks make that payout without affecting the business of the team? All fair questions and ones that I don't have the answer to. Obviously there's a lot of speculation out there. There's their family that's deep into developments

and I have friends in that industry at the high end of that industry and it's one that is in the process of taking a bit of a kick right now. Yeah, the pre-sales aren't exactly flying off. They're getting killed, right? Like they're getting killed. Yeah. And everybody loves to, it's funny because aren't exactly flying off. They're getting killed, right? Like they're getting killed.

Everybody loves to, it's funny because everybody loves to hammer investors, real estate investors because they invest in projects and then they make money when the projects are finished. But the truth is without investors, presales never hit their targets and the banks won't close on deals. So a lot of real estate, big developments are sort of being held up because the pre-sales have stalled to the point where the banks won't issue the financing to complete the projects. And that's something I hear from friends in that industry of late, and obviously something that would affect,

you know, a family that's as deeply, you know, invested in real estate in this market. So in terms of what it means for the team, honestly, guys, like, uh, you know, invested in, in real estate in this market. So in terms of what it means for the team, honestly, guys, like I don't know the, the brother stuff had been out there with Paula for a while. And, and again, to me, it was, it was pretty clear that the legitimacy of the, of the, of the talk, um, the last time Francesco addressed the

media. Okay. Uh, let's move on to the goaltending stuff. Connor Hellebuck, what can you say after he wins that series for the Winnipeg Jets? Well, good for him. And maybe it can, you know, maybe it can provide a confidence spark, but I'm going to,

I'm going to have to say, I had to bite my tongue pretty hard not to go on social last night as everyone sort of went to the heart trophy Connor Hellebuck is back after a couple big saves in overtime and even the third period because he was out and challenging and that's not how he got the Vezna trophies being out and challenging. Coming out and challenging outside his blue paint, to me, is almost a little bit worrisome. Now, based on the reads and straight line attacks,

okay, I'll take it. But the reality is everything that people were criticizing him for in terms of his depth and depth management and playing deep is what allows him to be the goal that he is in the regular season. The problem is, it hasn't worked in the playoffs so far. And a big part of it is, Connor's game is based on reads. Or at least his excellence.

Like that's the thing that separates him as an elite goaltender, is how well he processes the game. We always used to say that Dominik Hasek had a brain like a computer and a spine like a slinky and Helly sees the game at that level, but he obviously doesn't play the game the way haschuk Did he's kind of the polar opposite, you know his his phrase big and boring He is not physically gifted beyond the size He does he's not a terrible skater But his east-west, the narrowness

of his butterfly, like there are a lot of things that sort of athletic reactionary game, he's about reason, patience. And so what they gave up or they at like 20, I'm just trying to do the quick math. That's really, I think 30 goals in the first round 17 were on broken plays or sorry yeah broken plays and screams and so what do you do to a goaltender who is elite at reading the game you take away his eyes and with such purpose like Colorado hammered it last year and the year before that when it was in the first round it it was slot line plays east-west plays like if you move the puck east-west and challenge his skating a little bit if you present some deception to those reads and I think what happened is in this round you saw him hesitant with his reads you saw him

lean one way and then the guy would go the other way you saw him get caught cheating a little bit with his reads right back to the first game Kyra from the point everyone's like, why is he so deep? Like, I can tell you why he's so deep. He's flattening out his backside edge because he sees, I think it was, neighbors coming in back door and he anticipated pass and he went early. Even last night on the high glove goal and they hammered him high glove. Valakett put it out, I think it was like 10 out of 11 shots went in high glove. He flattens out because he's anticipating a push. And so the reads that he relies on in the regular

season, the defensive structure, and it's not that the Jets were bad, but Connor Hellebuck, Andre Vasileski and Calvin Pickard had the three highest expected save percentages in the National Hockey League this year, the easiest environments. And so to me, there are things within his game that other teams attack in the postseason at a rate they never do in the regular season. And with the determination, you never see in the regular season. And so you see vulnerability and that's crept into his confidence and hit, and the confidence he has in his reads. And those things are crucial to his success.

But also like. All the with all due respect, like there's no trophy slam dunk, yes. But because all the numbers were so off the charts, everyone wanted to hand him the heart trophy and he may yet win it. But the reality is, is he is very much a goaltender who is in sync with what goes on in front of him, like team and goaltender exist together and both things dissipate in the playoffs like it wasn't just him not handling screens there was a there was a game where Tanaf goes out to the point and everyone that

he kind of got ripped I point to it because the broadcasters called him out and so probably everybody saw it because he went out to the point he didn't block the shot but to me it wasn't that he didn't block the shot to me he didn't go to the point in the right lane. We've talked before about how screens are managed. Middle screen goalie has short side. Flexing forward has to be in the middle lane. Has to be. Like that's a staple and they started running around and not sticking to their staples and that didn't allow him to trust his reads. I'm always short side as a goaltender around a screen and I know

my guys get my flexing forward is going out to the point In the middle lane. Well soon as he doesn't now I've got a layered screen now I've got the traffic in front of me and I've got my forward taking my eyes away as well And that's a shot and talked about this before that goes in 40% of the time if you get it through to the top half of the net so This is a bit of Jets This is a bit of Hellebuck But a lot of it is like some of the narratives

around his numbers that led to the Hart Trophy discussion, he didn't lead the league in goals saved above expected this year. He was second to Darcy Kemper, who's also out of the playoffs. There are elements that get overblown narrative-wise, I think, based on numbers. The last time we had a Hart Trophy finalist, Igor Shishterkin, as a goaltender, his adjusted numbers were three times as good as Hellebuck's were this year. So I think you're seeing that come home to roost a little bit. He still deserves a Vezna.

He does so much well, but so much of it is integrated with team. And when both things disappear, this is what you get. Okay. Speaking of narratives, Kev, on Friday during Hellebuck's meltdown in St. Louis, I tweeted out, this is exactly how I wrote it. A listener wrote in this week that, Hellebuck is this generation's Luongo, and I've thought about it a lot. Now, when I sent this out, I meant it genuinely. Someone texted it in, which is true, the texter's name was Todd has bad takes,

and I actually just thought about it a lot. And I- Which is rare for you. Yeah, usually I don't think at all, just throw stuff out there and let it be. But I did think about it a lot. And I forgot that any sort of tweet can be manipulated in other people's minds

any way they want. So they thought that this was me advocating for this analogy, the comparison, right? And I was just like, I'm just thinking about it. Like I'm watching them melt down on the road. We saw that with Luongo, but you know, people were weighing in and calling me this and that. And I was like, I'm still so sensitive

about Luongo in this market, man. Very sensitive. It's crazy. One takeaway was very sensitive for sure. But the other one is, I didn't think it was that crazy. Please tell me that you guys saw Luangos tweet about this. I did, someone sent it to me afterwards, so I gotta chuckle out of that.

But I didn't think it was that crazy an idea or a comparison. Some people got very offended by it, which I guess speaks to the sensitivities of the market. But I mean, there's something there where the playoff demons and trying to exercise them, speaks to the sensitivities of the market, but I mean, there's something there where the playoff demons and trying to exercise them, there's a commonality between the two of them. Or you can tell me I'm totally wrong,

like the rest of Twitter. No, no, you can't miss it. Like, I mean, I may be in the goalie union, but I think on one of my hits in another market right before that game, I'm like, I don't know how you hit this guy. And I think the, the only damage there that I would worry about is,

you know, if the confidence was already shaken, what is Eric Comrie starting game six due to it further, if you need him in game seven. But it was hard to miss, like the road, like it wasn't great at home either, right? Like people were pointing to his 8.79 at home, like that was a good juxtaposition. I'm like, that ain't exactly solving things either. Like people were pointing to his 879 at home like that was a good juxtaposition. I'm like that ain't exactly solving things either but compared to the compared to away it was hard to miss the comparison right like I

had the same thought like in no one in a million years I was there I lived it I was in the media I was on the radio in 2011 would have suggested sitting Luongo, not starting him in game six in Boston, especially coming off the game he had in game five here in Vancouver. Yeah, he couldn't have done that. But in retrospect, right? Like it would have made sense, right?

And it was, so it was hard to miss this like, Hey, are you going to look back at what happens in, in game six, uh, and be like, man, we should have just given Helly the night off and given ourselves a chance to win with with Eric and the team plays really well in front of Eric. You know, and honestly, if not for the fact that the St. Louis Blues have not figured out how to handle the other goalie being pulled, I mean, they were the worst team in the league in the regular season,

13, five on six goals against. This discussion would be very real right now. But because they get those two goals in the final two minutes with the goalie out and because they went in overtime, there's another chance. Kev, I know you speak a lot about the technical sides of goaltending and it's all very interesting, especially when you think about how much goaltending has changed just in the way goalies play and their sizes and their ability over the last, I don't know what, 30 years or whatever. But you know, to me, and I don't know about you,

the most fascinating thing about being a goalie is the mental strain that it creates. And I remember thinking back when Luongo was the Canucks goalie and I remember thinking like, man, I don't, I would not want to be in his position right now because there is just so much pressure on him. And I'm sure Hellebuck was in that same position

where you've got the hopes of the city riding on, on you essentially. Um, I mean, what, what do you think about when you think about when people talk about the mental challenges of being a goalie? I feel like you kind of touched on that when you said, you know, to me it was a little bit worrying when Hellebuck started coming out and challenging because that to me suggests that maybe he's chasing something. He's chasing something else and he's lost faith in his abilities to stay deeper and read the play. And that sometimes happens when you've lost a bit

of belief in your game. Well, that's Marc-Andre Flurry, right? Like Marc-Andre Flurry, when things were going poorly in the 2000s, when he lost confidence and goalies typically go one of two ways when they don't feel confident. They either play super aggressive and essentially it's like the closer and this is this was flower. The closer I get to the puck the better chance it has to hit me. That's the mindset or goalies shrink on their goal line. That's the most common thing they tend to retreat.

And I think that's what people were seeing in Hellebuck without recognizing that that's how we played a lot part, a large part of the year. Now listen, the other thing about Hellebuck is in straight lines. If you attack him in straight lines, there's nobody better. And that's what we saw in some of those over

times. So he had the read to step out and take those shots and play a little bit of frankly, hit me. He's big, he's massive. They're attacking in straight lines the trailer he steps out on him he's trusting everyone around him not to make a backdoor pass but I wasn't the only person I saw some other goalie people online as this was happening and as he was being praised for it say man like he's coming out to the point where if somebody makes a lateral pass here he he's done. But they didn't, it worked.

His reads were correct. Um, but Flower used to be the same way. He'd get so hyper aggressive and then great on, on open looks, it would hit him, but pucks off the boards, pucks behind the net. You remember it went back when he was in Pittsburgh, like people. Remember that series against the Flyers?

Like four or five times a game, right? Cause he was outside his post. I remember saying at the time to someone in Pittsburgh, as they were contemplating whether they could move forward with Marco Andre Fleury, you need to get them a goalie coach that teaches. And it's hard to believe now that, you know, they had, they'd have been there, done that old school, like seventies style goalie coach in Pittsburgh at the time. We weren't where we are now in terms of technical teaching.

And it's like, you need to get him that type of voice before you throw the baby out with the bathwater because right now he has no positional anchors, no positional staples, nothing to go back to when things go wrong so he just gets aggressive and chases the puck and hopes it hits him. I don't think Hellebuck was to that extent yesterday but certainly it seemed like there was a conscious decision like, okay, straight lines. I'm just gonna step out and let it hit me. He controlled his rebounds, which is, you know, a sign that he's not purely drop and block at that point, but it was certainly a little bit uncharacteristic and I'm with you. It's a little worrisome. And to the mental anguish,

like, parents, don't they? As much as I want to have more young kids subscribing to Ingo magazine, like I wouldn't want to be a goalie parent. It's a tough job, man. Like we all remember the long going 2011, the walks around the sea, see you all and all that kind of stuff, right? Like, you know, so. And everyone in Vancouver is like, don't talk to him.

He's doing his thing. I think we also forget, like, don't forget like before, and maybe, maybe those saves in overtime are his breaks and maybe team and goalie can get back on the same page because I do think there's an element of team to his like they've they've stopped doing some of the things that made them so successful in the playoffs or in the regular season. Sorry. And but it's kind of like Luongo, right? Like let's not forget that the Chicago breakthrough wasn't as smooth, right?

Like we all remember the, the backdoor save low high off the left post to the top of the crease off Patrick Sharp. Um, and that was sort of his defining moment against Chicago, but that series wasn't full of defining moments. As a matter of fact, that series looked like it was heading the other way, both for the team and for him, right? So, uh, and then he gets all the way to the cup final and we still have the Boston meltdowns, but within that, what, three shutouts at home or two shutouts

and one goal against at home. So, you know, like this might be the moment for him, but you're right. Like you can see it. There were elements like he would lean and a little bit of cheating in his game that we just don't see during the regular season where either he didn't trust what was going on in front of him. The chaos is for sure ramped up and that's a problem for him in the playoffs or he didn't trust his reads or his game. And if it's the latter one, that's probably the biggest problem. As far as like trusting what's going on in front of you, like guys, there are six goalies right now

that are above expected for the playoffs. So outperforming their defensive environment. Six and only two of them are left. Yeah. Like the other four out of the playoffs. Like so as much as I again the goalie union card like I'm looking at this and I'm like like goalies matter okay but put more not to lose you series like you look at what happened with Edmonton and the switch there. This is about can you play a style that can succeed in the playoffs and can you stick with it you know as another team is trying to exploit whatever deficiencies are within it.

To me even last night is about the Jets getting back to their game as much as it is you know about the goal timing story. Same with the Edmonton series against LA, right? Edmonton was able to take that over. Didn't matter what was happening in that. Kev, we gotta go. This was great, man. Thanks for doing it.

Thanks guys. Have a good one. Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and Ingo magazine here on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. I said we gotta go because we got stuff to do first. We're giving away a pair of tickets to see the Vancouver Canadians and Everett Aqua Sox at the NAT on Saturday, May 17th.

Call now 604-280-0650. That number again, 604-280-0650. Caller number five will win the pair of tickets. Sportsnet 650 presents the women in sports day on May 17th at the NAT with a special guest appearance by Hazel May. Game time is 1 0 5. Be caller number 5 right now. 6 0 4 2 8 0 0 6 5. Love the aqua socks.

Love the aqua socks. We're going to try and do a couple of what we learned real quick too, right? Yeah. Okay, let's do it. Fire up the dot matrix. Humanoid submission, what we learned as always brought to you by AJ's Pizza on East Broadway, homemade dough, premium local ingredients and authentic cooking methods. AJ's is for diehard pizza people. Dine in or order online at ajs.pizza. Uh, plop, one of our favorite listeners.

Love plop. What we learned, uh, both game sevens this weekend are the reason why sports are the best. You couldn't have written a better script. No, you couldn't have. And half the time I'm like, we're definitely living in a matrix with all this stuff. Oz and Squamish, what we learned, not everyone

can be as amazing as the Whitecaps, who won again over the weekend. The winless defending champions, LA Galaxy lost one nothing yesterday to Sporting Kansas City. That's right. In a historic win for KC as they became the first team in history, I believe in a professional league, certainly MLS to win a game despite not having a single shot attempt, let alone a shot on goal.

How did they do it then? It was thanks to a galaxy own goal. The beautiful game never disappoints. In my favorite, what we learned, and if we had time, we would really explore this. Okay. Lincoln and Surrey, what we learned. I learned that Sean Avery has written a romance

novel called Summer Skate. The book's description reads, sexy and addictive. Summer Skate is the sun on your skin in a string bikini. It's the sounds of skates cutting across the ice of a hockey rink chasing victory. Yep, now all of your listeners have their Mother's Day gift taken care of.

You're welcome. So I obviously had to make sure that this was not a joke. Summer Skate, a novel by Sean Avery and he's got a co-author, Leslie Cohen. And I just want to read the story here. Summer has begun on the East end of Long Island and bestselling author, Jessica Riley finds herself unable to deliver on her highly anticipated second book.

We all know how that can be. Her children are demanding her husband is preoccupied with a deadline looming. She fakes a mental breakdown to get away. Oh, where's she going? Only to find that the house next door is filled with rowdy hockey players. Sounds like the Hamptons to me.

Tidalizing. Tidalizing? Is it? What is it? Level above tidalating? Tidalating, tidalizing, that's a new one. Oh yeah, tidalizing. It's tantalizing and tidalizing.

Tantalizing and tidalating at the same time. Is that what it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tidalizing. I pulled a Halford. It's work. Tidalizing.izing and titillating at the same time. Is that what it is? Yeah, I did. I pulled a Halford. It's a word. Titalizing. I like it though. That should be the review on the cover of the book. Titalizing. Jason Ruff.

Is it a word? Probably. I don't know. Sean Avery wrote it. Probably is. I like that actually. Titalizing. I'm going to use that more often. When we make up words here, we should have a jury. I don't know who we can make it up. You should thank guests that way like thanks Kev That was a titillizing hit Okay, we're up against for time. We got to go when we come back

Mark Lazarus is gonna join us, right? We got that under control. My eyes are gonna join us. He's been covering, Colorado Yes, and we'll try realizing My glasses is gonna join us. He's been covering Colorado. Yes, and we'll try realizing Those are totalizing serious. Yeah, okay enough with the tip We're gonna do a Jan pro before we go to break I need to tell you about Jan pro from waiting rooms to exam rooms and everything in between Jan pro keeps workplaces tidy Clean and disinfected for a free and totalizing totalizing for a free quote visit Jan pro dot see I knew that was coming It still worked. You're listening to the hell for the brush on sportsnet 650 Tidalizing. Tidalizing. For a free quote, visit JanPro.ca. I knew that was coming. It still worked.

You're listening to the Hal Furtivraff Show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Vic Nazar. Have your say and join me on the People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets, weekdays three to four on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. your five casts. 623 and counting left in the third period. 22 seconds left on the McCarr Miner. Here's Miko Rantinen! Game seven is tied! Yes! 8.32 on a Monday. Happy Monday everybody. Halford Brough, Sportsnet 650. This is a great track. Is Axel Foley gonna walk in?

Or even Axel Schuster? Is this, is it the Human League, Don't You Want Me Baby, is this it? I can hear it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I can hear that. It is, because you know the title of it is The Robot League. Seriously? Yeah, that's the title. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha They're not even trying. It's so titillizing. Nice. Nice. It's so titillizing.

Mark Lazarus is on Hullabaloo right now. He's like, what have I got myself into? You are listening to the Haliford and Brough Show. I hate doing this show. Why do I agree to do this? Haliford and Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest.

Visit them online at Sands-Trustee.com. We are in hour three of the program. Normally this is what we learn time, but Mark Lazarus from The Athletic is going to join us in just a moment here. Hour three of this program is brought to you by Campbell & Pound Real Estate Appraisers. Trust the expertise of Campbell and Pound. Visit them on the internet at Campbell-Pound.com today. To the phone lines we go, Mark Lazarus from The Athletic joins us now on the Haliford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Laz, how are you? You guys overestimate me. You singing 80s classics is why I do the show

in the first place. Okay, good, I'm glad. Bref also came up with a new word last break. It was to describe Sean Avery's new romance book. Have you seen this? I thank God have not. He has co-written a new romance novel. But tell them Mark's the word you made. And I, and I mistakenly called it titillizing

cause I was, cause I'm an idiot. Yeah. Class act all the way. Honestly, that Av stars series was it was pretty titillizing especially especially the ranting an angle what was it like to cover that? It was a heck of a lot of fun it was a great series it's funny you know like me and Pierre Lebrun were covering that series together and we kind of were looking longingly at all these other series because there was all this

drama you know you've got Kachucks happening and there's, you know, suspensions and hits. And all we had was fabulous hockey. And we almost felt like we were left out, but then you get a game seven like that. And then, uh, it, it, it's hard to complain when you're, when you're in the building for a game that good. So take us through the atmosphere in Dallas, uh, Colorado is up to nothing. Uh, and they're in pretty much full control of the game. What was the vibe like at that point?

Yeah, you know, I mean, I don't know how many games you've attended in Dallas It's a great crowd like I don't know if they have a lot of fans beyond those 18,000, but those 18,000 fans They're awesome. I love stars fans It's great and there was it's so loud at the start of the game and it got that There was the life which has been sucked out of that building. The way that Colorado was in control. Once, once they went up to know two, Oh, I mean, it felt insurmountable the way things were going. It can't be Blackwood was on top of his game. The stars couldn't get anything going.

Colorado had complete control of the puck. And then it just changed on a dime. Mika random just said, screw this. I'll do it myself. And he kind of took the game over. Both of his goals were kind of superhuman efforts on his part and then the place just started going ballistic and by the time he got the the the the hat trickle was the empty netter was really cool because the hat started coming down before he even scored. Like it was just this kind of coronation moment and it was just one of the best periods

that anyone's ever played given the circumstances. We did this earlier in the show and we felt bad because the story really should be about Dallas and this random narrative and what the stars were able to accomplish without high skin and without Robertson. But it was hard for us not to turn most of our attention to the Colorado Avalanche. And I know that you kind of wrote the, or so you wrote the sort of obit in the athletic on their season. The headline is avalanches, torturuses collapse leaves plenty of questions.

And that's where we were at in the aftermath too, because it just felt shocking not from the standpoint that they lost, but the way that they did it too. Like, you know, uh, the stars only had the lead for 62 seconds through the first three games. And yet somehow they won two of the three games. And that game three where Landis Kong comes back, and it's this huge emotional lift, and the Avs lose. It just felt like there were so many moments here

where they could have grabbed this series and they didn't. And at the end, they were all shocked and stunned that they had lost. What was it like covering the Avs room after game seven? It was really quiet in there, as you might expect. We kind of went in there wondering if Nathan Nathan McKinnon was just going to like light the world on fire because the guy's just I mean his intensity is one of the things that makes him so great. He is a very fiery player and we all know

he wasn't happy about the ranting trade in the first place and for Mito to be the one who does it to them we were all kind of wondering what kind of reaction we're gonna get but he was just in stunned to disbelief. Like he was talking quietly. He was kind of staring into space. He, uh, got a little mad at me when I asked him if it hurt more because it was Miko. He just was not wanting that question at all at that moment.

But, uh, yeah, I mean, for me, I I'm always more interested in the losing team in a game like this, because we've got at least two more weeks here to talk about the Dallas stars. We can talk about how great they are, how well they've been built, what a job Jim Mills done, but how they were able to manage this without Heisken and without Robertson. We got time for that but in the immediacy of a game like that the losing team is always more interesting to me and especially a team like Colorado who just about everybody if you've picked to win the series if not win the cup this year even

though they were in third place in the central division, gives you an idea how good the central is. But they completely remade, Chris McFarlane did this ridiculous job of remaking the team mid season on the fly, two new goalies, new second line center, new third line center, new fourth line center. We really haven't seen a contender do that

mid season like that. And they just looked awesome. They dominated the series and they still lost. And now this is three straight early playoff exits for a team that we thought was the next Blackhawks, the next Penguins, the next Lightning. They were supposed to win multiple cups and I keep, you know, I live in Chicago so I keep coming back to the 85 Bears. That's what this is starting to feel like. A team that should have won the championships but only got the one because they just never could put it back together again. You start to wonder about that. You start to wonder about the

way this team is constructed now without Miko Ranzen and if this is a team that's going to be able to get back on top. So does Nate go recruit Sid at the Worlds? He'll be in his ear all week, right? The funny thing is, I wrote that column and then almost all the responses online were that McKinnon's gonna request a trade to Pittsburgh. It's gonna reverse it entirely there. What does come next for the Avs though? Cause we've heard, you know,

Jared Bednar might have to walk the plank, Chris McFarland's obviously feeling the heat. I know in the aftermath, it was more about the reaction, the shock and disappointment and everything, but shortly after that comes the what comes next and I'm curious what the answers are going to be to those questions. Yeah, I think we're all curious. I don't think it would be tough to fire people after losing what everybody saw as either a conference final or Stanley Cup final level matchup. Even, you know, it went seven games, obviously the way they lost hurt, but it's hard to imagine Bednar getting fired, McFarland getting fired because,

you know, four days ago, we're talking about what a great coach Jared Bednar is and what a brilliant job Chris McFarland did. I mean, it's one period of hockey just flipped everything on its head, but I do think it raises the temperature a lot next year, right? If this happens again, that's when I think you start seeing the firings. But Ben are the second longest tenured coach in the league. I think he's in the top 10 and all of North American pro sports. Like he's, you know, established himself there. He's not quite John Cooper,

but he's kind of in that same conversation to a degree. I don't think that there'd be any significant consequences, but it's going to be harder for them. That's good. They're going to have to figure out that second line center thing again, cause I don't think Brock Nelson's coming back. So didn't score in the series. We all thought he was just the absolute obvious and perfect fit. And he just, it was kind of an awkward fit.

It didn't really work. So they have the same question that they had. Mackenzie Blackwood has signed for five more years. How good do you feel about that? He was really good in the early, early games of the book of the series, but kind of came back to earth a little bit as the series went on and Ottinger got better, but Blackwood kind of got a little more pedestrian. You know, how good do you feel about this team going forward? And if they're mediocre next year, I think that's when you're going to see the

consequences. You mentioned a couple of the candidates here, but who was the most disappointing Colorado player in that series? Well,, Keil McCarr had one. Keil McCarr was fabulous, but he had one goal on like 70 shot attempts and it was an empty netter. That's a problem. You need more out of your all-time Hall of Fame defenseman, right? But I think it's probably Nelson just because of what they gave up to get him. They gave up a first-round pick.

They gave up their top prospect and they got very little out of him. It just didn't really click the way everybody expected it to click. So I guess Nelson would have to be at the top of the list, but you know, McKinnon did all the work. He was fabulous and really didn't get a whole lot of help. When you were chatting, I'm sure with a lot of the people that cover the abs on a daily basis during

this series, did you ever come to a conclusion a lot of the people that cover the abs on a daily basis during the series. Did you ever come to a conclusion on like what exactly happened with Rantonin and why they couldn't get him signed to the contract that he ended up signing in Dallas? I mean, people just inevitably go to the tax thing, right? You know, Texas is a tax free state, so $12 dollars goes a lot longer in Texas than it does in Colorado.

I don't know like to me it's still hard to fathom that they didn't try a little harder but they made the move so quickly. It's obviously hard for Nathan McKinnon to fathom also. I don't know it's just it's still this kind of out of out of left field thing where nobody saw it coming not that not that, not that soon, not that fast. Uh, it's, it's going to go down as one of these great, like, you know, we're going to be questioning that move for the next eight years, right? The, depending on what Colorado is able to do and depending on what

Dallas is able to do, I mean, right now, who's your leading cons might candidate. It might be Miko Rantanen. If Miko wins the cons might this year and the stars with the family cup, this will be hanging around Chris McFarlane's neck forever. Right. So I don't know. I mean, I, I have to think that more conversations could have given more, uh, more light on the subject and maybe they would have been able to work

something out, maybe they would have been able to see where their differences were because Miko Rantanen didn't want to leave. I talked to him when he was in Carolina and I talked to him a bunch during this series. He clearly didn't want to leave. He wanted to stick around. So like, I don't think he was playing some kind of like crazy hard ball game. I think Colorado society, you know what?

This isn't going to happen. Here's a good offer that we got. Let's just jump on it. And they took the risk and hey, that's, you know, we want our GMs to take more risks, right? We always complain that they're too conservative, right? Totally. I just don't know if this was the right one. Well, yeah, you know, we want our GMs to take more risks, right? We always complain that they're too conservative, right? Totally. I just don't know if this was the right one.

Well, yeah, I mean, we want it because we want, we want the content, right? We want to talk about these decisions as opposed to just going the safe route all the time. But I mean, they must've, when it, when it looked like it wasn't going to work out in Carolina, I mean, they must've been Colorado be like, please don't trade them to Dallas. Please don't trade them to Dallas.

And then he gets traded to Dallas and scores a hat trick in the third period to win the game. I mean, you could not have written it a better way. It's the absolute worst case scenario, right? I mean, you intentionally trade a guy out of your division, out of your conference. And 16 days later, whatever it is, he's right back in there.

While we've got you, I want to talk a little bit about the Chicago Blackhawks. What's the lead story right now in Chicago? What are people talking about the most when it comes to the team? Well, it's the draft lottery tonight, right? That's a big deal for them. And then they have the second best odds.

And the question is, if they do win, could they really draft yet another defenseman with Michael, with Matthew Schaefer being the top. Consensus number one overall pick, or would they be willing to trade down more of like an NFL style when there's a quarterback available and you don't need a quarterback, I'd love to see something like that. Um, but now not just the coaching search, they've already been David Carl. Pulled out. That was their top guy.

They would have loved to have gotten Mike Sullivan, but that obviously wasn't going to happen. So now, you know, is a Jay Woodcroft type the answer? Like, well, who are they going to be able to bring in? And what is it going to be their mandate? Is the mandate to start winning immediately or is it still developmental? You know, the Hawks are still kind of in that stage where they don't know what they are. Are they gonna be able to land Mitch Marner this summer?

There's a bunch of teams in line. This is a big off season for them where they could really take a big step forward or they could just be running in place for another miserable, god-awful year. Why did David Carle turn down the Chicago Blackhawks job? Great question, I'd love to ask him that. I've tried. Yeah. I don't know.

I I'll be curious if he takes another NHL job, then that's kind of damning on the Blackhawks, right? But if he just decides, you know what? I've got it made here in Denver. I love it here. I love working with college kids. Then then that's perfectly understandable. But you know, the Hawks seem to make a lot of sense

for him because they would be able to commit longterm to him, which you would have to do to take that job. He'd be working with a lot of players that are an age he's used to working with that he's able to connect with a lot of like 19, 20, 21 and 22 year olds. A lot of talent to work with. And obviously an original six franchise, even as bad as they've been, it's still a premier destination for players and coaches. So if he turned down the Blackhawks that aggressively and then goes somewhere else, that's kind of raising some red flags. Yeah. I mean, that's the first thing that I thought when I heard that he had withdrawn from consideration was the why. And you start kind of coming up with your theories and ideas.

I mean, one of the most tantalizing things about coaching in Chicago is you get to coach- Tidalizing. Right. Tidalizing. You get to coach Connor Bidard And I know that we spent we spent a fair amount of time after the Blackhawks end of year media availability and locker cleanouts Like playing the Bidard Interviews and you know kind of parsing through what he said He's obviously you know just because I look sad sometimes doesn't mean I want out of Chicago I thought that was interesting like I thought that was like he Like I thought that was it. Like he had to address it, which I thought was one end of year two.

You Vancouverites are so obnoxious when it comes to Connor Bedard. We're the worst. We sure are Mark. We sure are. We don't have much here. When it comes to Bedard, I cannot stand you guys. Yeah, that's fair. But what was it? Five years, right? Five years and you can become a Canuck? Five or six. He'll force his way out sooner or later. All kidding aside though, I did think it was interesting that he addressed it. I think he put it to bed, to be perfectly honest.

I'm not even sure there was anything to put to bed. A lot of people were reading body language, but it is Vancouver and we do monitor everything that the guy's doing pretty closely. And at what, let's be real, it was a trying sophomore year in Chicago. Yeah, I mean, his game in Vancouver, the last game he played in Vancouver and the two games, frankly, he played in real, it was a trying sophomore year in Chicago. Yeah. I mean, his game in Vancouver, the last game he played in Vancouver and the two

games, frankly, he played in Vancouver, he was not good. Yeah, no, he's, he's a child. He's 19 years old. He has good days and bad days and he's playing on a bad team with a bad system. And, you know, not mediocre line mates. I, the thing that the, but Dard has said a couple of times now, lately, the season, I'm glad he said this, because this is important that he realizes this. And he said, when you get picked number one overall,

you're not going to go to a ready-made good team. You have to expect it to be rough at the start. And that's what people don't seem to want to understand, is that of course the Blackhawks are bad. They tanked to get him. They cut the franchise to the bone. He didn't come in here thinking, I'm gonna win the Stanley Cup at age 19.

He knew exactly what he was getting into. Now does that suck sometimes? Is that hard? Does it make you angry? Do you punch the board? Do you smash a stick? Do you look mopey? Sure. Nobody likes losing. But it's not like he's shocked by anything that's happened in Chicago. He knew full well that this was going to be a process.

By the way, before we let you go, just to put a bow on the Colorado Dallas series, should we be paying more attention or giving a little bit more shine to Peter DeVore who is now nine and oh all time in game sevens in Stanley Cup Playoff history? You know, my old colleague at the Sun Times pointed out that his game six record is atrocious, so.

I guess. He's juicing his game seven record. Mark, this is great, man. Thanks for taking the time to do this. We really appreciate it. Best of luck with the off season. Are you working on another series now or are you done? I am off to Vegas tonight. I'll be in Dallas in a couple of days. I'm bouncing around the West. Beautiful. Enjoy it, man. Thanks for doing this. Great catching up with you. Thanks, Mark.

Thanks, guys. Yep. Mark Lazarus from The Athletic here on the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet I'm bouncing around the West. Beautiful. Enjoy it, man. Thanks for doing this. Great catching up with you. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, guys. Yep, Mark Lazarus from The Athletic here on the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Nine and oh, nine and oh. Peter DeBoer in game sevens. That is funny though, that someone looked up

at his game six record. Yeah, juicing the stats. Now he just wants to get to game seven. He can't lose. Justin Williams had a funny tweet. The tweet was going viral yesterday with DeBoer's record. And I'm pretty sure Williams quote tweeted it and he was like, calm down Pete, all right?

Calm down. It's good. What was Luongo's tweet that came out? Someone said who should start in game seven. Oh, was it Wyatt? I think it was Wyatt. I think it was Wyatt. And then I believe the reply was Corey Schneider in game seven. Oh, was it Wyatt? I think it was Wyatt. I think it was Wyatt. And then I believe the

reply was Cory Schneider in game six. Right. Yeah. Because I think that it was who should start in game seven. Should it be Connor Hellebuck or Cory Schneider? Right. And he said Cory Schneider in game six, which is a good one. We still talk about it. And people are like,

he should have started in game six. I was like, yeah, are you going to put him in after he had a shutout in game five? Are you going to just take him out because you don't trust him in Boston? Can I just, like, I was like, yeah, are you going to put him in after he had a shutout in game five? Are you going to just take him out cause you don't trust him in Boston? Can I just, like, I'll just say though, I know that 2011, because we're in Vancouver and it's your home of the Canucks, we talk about it, but

I think that non Canucks fans in like the Vancouver, outside the Vancouver market, there should be a forensic analysis of what happened in that series with the home road splits and someone trying to dive deeper into it because it doesn't happen very often. And the reason that it got brought back up, even though, yeah, Hellebuck and Luongo aren't perfect in terms of an analogy, playing okay at home

and just falling apart on the road, it was so similar and eerily similar. And to the point where you're asking, what's going on in there? Is there like some sort of voodoo in the building? I think it'd be hard when the momentum starts going against you on the road. Yeah. And the crowd is going crazy. I mean, for in Luongo's case, Chicago is a tough place to play and so was Boston The thing you feel like AV you gotta get him out of there. Oh, I was feeling the same way When hella buck was in st. Louis I was like what are you waiting for get him out get him out of there

And they had the debate at the with the panel during the second intermission And you know, it was like LaLonde and bx and In game seven you're talking about? No, no, game six. Oh, okay. Cause he, they went into the break. Cause game seven, there was a debate too, right? Game six, they thought he, do you pull them right after the goal, which made it five, or do you just wait until the intermission and let Comrie come in?

And then the debate was, what are you going to do? Cause game six was lost. Yeah. And the answer started to be game, what's going to give you the best shot at winning game seven? And it was going to be, do you let Hellebuck rest here and take them out in St.

Louis? But if you do that, do you run the risk of further eroding his confidence where he's gotten yanked from a game again? And it's like, okay, get back in there for game seven. Like, do you just let him play through it? LaLonde had a great anecdote about Andre Vasilevsky and he's like, he never get back in there for game seven. Like, do you just let him play through it? Lalonde had a great anecdote about Andre

Vasilevsky and he's like, he never, ever wanted to leave a game. It could have been 13 to one. And he's like, I'm staying in, do not take me out. And Lalonde said, fine. Like if you're, you know, we're not going to mess with your mental. If you're good letting in the goals and you can

come back the next game and be fine, we're going to keep you in. Well, I'm sure some goalies are thinking like, okay, this game is lost. so let me find something here. Like you could be on the golf course. Right. Right? And you have a terrible, let's say you're, I don't know,

let's say you're on a golf trip or something. You're not going to go in if you're after 12 holes because you want to find something, you know? Like, oh, I found my swing again, right? Now this round is ruined, but at least I have something to bring into the next round. But you know what also can happen during that round is it can get worse.

It can get worse. It can get, and that's where the coach has to step in and say, I'm going to put a stop to this. I'm not going to let you get ventilated for six in the third period. If you look at Luongo's game log and some of the games he played against Chicago and Boston, you're like, yeah, he's

in there for six or seven goals. Like how did it get to that point? Maybe he shouldn't have been in there for six or seven goals. Before we leave for today, I need to tell you. It's nice to remember, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It's fun memory lane.

I need to tell you about Jan Pro. From waiting rooms to exam rooms and everything in between, Jan Pro keeps workplaces tidy, clean, and disinfected. For a free quote, visit JanPro.ca. And with that, we're saying goodbye for a Monday. Thank you all for listening, and thank you all for contributing.

But for now, we gotta go. We'll be back tomorrow to talk about everything, including the Leafs and Panthers tonight, game one. But for now, bye-bye everybody. Signing off, I have been Mike Halford, he's been Jason Bruff, he's been A-Dog, and he's been Laddy. This has been the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet.

Six-hits.