Halford & Brough in the Morning - Marco Rossi Trade Potential + Blue Jays Great Pat Borders

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

In hour two, Mike & Jason discuss the latest baseball news with MLB Network's Adnan Virk, they discuss the rumour that the Canucks are targeting Marco Rossi (17:00), plus the boys speak with Blue Jays great Pat Borders. This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's time to chat with Adnan It's Adnan Ferkey's on the show We're gonna talk some baseball And take a trip to the silver screen That's right, it's time for Red Nen. Yes, Ed and Ferg, he joins us now. We'll head out to the ballgame and talk about all the films he's seen. 702 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday, everybody. Halvard

Bruff, Sportsnet 650. Halvard Bruff of the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 five star reviews. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We are now in hour two of the program. Adnan Virk is gonna join us in a minute here. We're just working out some details behind the scenes. You guys don't wanna see how the sausage is made here,

trust me. But stuff some details behind the scenes you guys don't want to see how the sausage is made here trust me But you do stuff is happening behind the scenes our to this program is brought to you by Jason Haman a good Jason dot mortgage if you love giving the banks more your money Then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you visit them online Jason mortgage We visited with Jason yesterday. What a great guy. I can now disclose our private location. It was Granville Island I'm not gonna tell you where you'll have to get a hidden gem the hidden gem of Vancouver Very few know about it except according to yesterday's traffic 900,000 people found out about it yesterday. It was very busy

We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio Kintec footwear and or thought X working together with you in step When he joins us Adnannan Virk will be joining us courtesy of the Power West Industries hotline. Ladi, just shake your head positive or negative. Do we have Adnan yet or we're still working on that? Okay, not a problem because we've still got a few things that we need to get into from the beginning of the show. I said that I compiled a bunch of rumors

that we could monger from the National Hockey League courtesy of a long time NHL insider Pierre Lebrun. He's got a piece up at the athletic. So we talked about the Elias Pettersson thing, Cole's notes version. Lebrun is hearing much like what a lot of people have heard, including Bruff and I, that it sounds like the Canucks are leaning towards retaining Elias Pettersson rather than entertaining a trade. It doesn't mean that a trade is completely out of the realm of possibility.

If someone was to say, swoop in with an amazing deal, the Canucks would listen, but they're not actively shopping Elias Pedersen. It sounds like he will be back with the new head coach, of course, Adam Foote. Okay, so hold these thoughts, hold these rumors. Once we talk to Adnan, we'll hit one more rumor, courtesy Pierre Lebrun, but now it's time to talk to Adnan, we'll hit one more rumor, courtesy Pierre Lebrun, but now it's time to talk to Adnan.

Adnan Virk joins us now, MLB Network's very own on the Haliford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Good morning Adnan, how are you? Pro tease there by Brough. By the way, I love the use of actively seeking or actively trading. It's just such a funny, just imagine in life, if I said to you guys, I'm actively seeking

a new trade partner for my car. I would actually tell you that, but I'm actively seeking a second wife at some point. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, yeah, you have to convince her that, we're not going out there looking for it, however, and however is never good. I'm not actively looking to get into better shape,

but if I were to get into better shape, then I would consider it. Yeah. Someone was to offer me, say, a miracle drug. Anyway, let's start our chat today with the Toronto Blue Jays. The hottest team in baseball is 112 of their last 14, three in a row in a sweep of the hated St. Louis Cardinals. And of course they are now eight games above 500. The Jays are with a 38 and 30 record. How are the Jays doing it? Adnan, how have they been able to become the hottest team in major league baseball?

Well, part of it is the fact that they're filing to what we thought we would do, which is pitch really well, like all along they're starting pitching was thought to be the strength of this team. And that has come to fruition with Barrios, Gossman, and Bassett all dealing. Hoffman has shored up the back of the bullpen the way the Romano was really struggling last season that's great news but this offense fellas they finally come alive and they're starting to bang and you know it's nothing to expect Vlad and Bo but Springer to have this revitalized

season. Addison Barger's probably been the story of the season as far as just unlikely suspects. This guy was starting the year in triple A and now he's becoming middle of the older kind of guy. Alejandro Kirk might be going to the All-Star game as a catcher. Think about that. I was looking at Sal Perez's numbers, the Royals, he's had a horrible season. Cal Raleigh, obviously has been great, as you guys know, they're the Mariners. But I saw that, like Kirk might be the guy. So, you know, you've got a really improved catcher, a revitalized right fielder, a first man in shortstop, healthy who are supposed to be your stars, and then you got these bargers and these Lucas's and these other guys stepping up.

It's been a great story, man. And it again proves, as I've said to you guys, the American league is so watered down and so diluted, the Jays have to say to themselves, why not us? Like, yeah, you probably won't catch the Yankees and the Tigers are formidable. But after that, I'm telling right now, the Jays could be the fourth or fifth best team in the American league. Of course they can. Regardless of how good or bad, and it's not that great,

the American league is what you're seeing and what the numbers play out sustainable to maybe not necessarily keep this kind of heater going, but keep them at, let's say eight or 10 games above 500. I think so Mike, cause you know, if you looked at this team, the last couple of seasons, they were spot to be a playoff team, right? It was only last year that they bottomed out. So you say to yourself, okay, is the window over? Are they no longer very good?

And they were very good. And all of a sudden they just stink. Or is that an aberration? And the Jays bet that it was an aberration. And I think that they're right. Like, because again, if you look at the balance of this team, are they doing enough things right to be successful yeah they are that doesn't mean you can't expect you know Ernie Clement to keep having three games like he did yesterday but here's one stat and with the Blues is lead the league which I was particularly taken by they had the fewest strikeouts in baseball now we

can play the fact that power hitting is still an issue for them but before it was like bottom five other bottom ten so at least they're improving but think about that in today's game what What is the focus power hitting and power arms? And if you can be the best in baseball at not striking on at least putting the ball in play that can be auger success. So is it sustainable that they could potentially hunt him? Yankees? Probably not. But are they a good team? I believe the answer is yes. We played your boy yonder Alonso's call. I'm assuming you heard this, right?

Doing the prediction of the early judge home run. By the way, I missed him. I missed him by a day. It was unbelievable. I worked with Yonder Monday night. We did the show together. Late night. I won't be tonight. And the next day somebody text me, go, how about Yonder? I go, yeah, we did a great show last night. They go, no, tonight he called the judge home running. Are you kidding? It was unbelievable. It is one of, like we were talking about like some of the great moments in, you know, play by play and color work.

And that had to be right up there. Cause we played it in full and he goes through the first two pitches of the count got to two and oh, just talking about like, this is going to happen. This is going to happen. Then lo and behold, it does happen. I mean, it's, it's, it's fantastic analysis, but also it's Aaron Judge. Like we're all kind of joking like, well, Aaron Judge on a two count.

Like I think maybe we could have called it as well. And he's I mean, this could be a pitch to hit. Yeah, right. It's Aaron Judge. He is kind of on his I don't want to say like baseball immortality, but it is wild every time he gets up to the plate that everyone's kind of expecting this stuff. Now it's like, oh, this one could go 470 feet, dead center. Oh yeah, I mean, first off, to your point about yonder,

Mike, you're right, that's the dream of every analyst, right? To say watch out for this here and that it actually happens. On baseball, it's more straightforward, right? I guess it's not as impressive as when Romo does it in football or Chris Collins, you know, watch the left tackle, he's gonna blow him up, blah, blah, but yeah, to be like, hey, he's gonna hit this really hard, Matty.

Stupid, whatever he does, it was definitely pretty funny to see, but, oh blah, blah, blah. But yeah, to be like, hey, he's gonna hit this really hard, Matty. Stupid sweater he does. It was definitely pretty funny to see. But judges' numbers, guys, I was looking last night, it is truly becoming mind-boggling. I know we live in a world of hyperbole and you go blah, blah, blah, but it's Barry Bonzi and it's Babe Ruthie and he's hitting 396.

It's the latest into a season. The guy's hitting 400 since Chipper Jones back in 08, but Chipper Jones had 10 home runs, judges 25. Here's by the step I was most impressed by yesterday. His overall slugging percentage in his career, he's lifted 11 points this year. It's gone from 604 to 615. That's the fourth highest slugging percentage in baseball history. It's only behind Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Lou Gehrig ever in baseball history. Like it's only behind Babe Ruth, Ted Williams,

and Lou Gehry ever in baseball history. And his overall slugging percentage, again, this is just doubles, triples, home runs. It's 776. The league wide OPS average is 720. His slugging alone is better than what most players are doing right now. It's just unbelievable.

He's gonna win his third MVP running away with it. Who's your favorite guy in all of major league baseball to watch hit? The guy you get most excited for. When I was a kid, it was Kenseko with the A's, because every time he comes up, the bat just looked like a toothpick in his hand. And the other guy that I really like,

this is a look kind of off the board, well, not really, I guess, was Andre Dawson. Every time he came up to bat, I'm like, this looks like he's going to hit a home run. Is Judge your guy or is there someone else that you just get excited every time he's up to bat? Yeah, in terms of pure sluggers, Judge is that guy. I'm with you, absolutely. I used to love Kinseko. People would laugh. They'd go, God, he's such a jerk. He's this thing. I love him man. He's just a big hunk of concrete as we know now, staridated. But like when he hit that home run off, Mike Flanagan, it was like 480 feet,

Fort Bex guy. I'm like, this guy is a monster. Like it's so much fun to watch the Bash brothers. Judges down to that guy. Obviously I never take my eyes off of Tony. But I'll tell you a fun one, speaking of the A's, and I know Mike's affinity for the Sut is Jacob Wilson. This rookie is on pace for 225 hits. That'd be the most by a rookie since each row. I think at 262 back in 01. And if you watch Jacob Wilson hit, he's got like this crazy hits,

like he's doing so much when he's at the plate. Like it's hilarious to watch. It makes you think about like no more Garcia Parra, right? Going through that elaborate routine of like fashioning the glove and unfashioning it, like adjusting everything like that. I find those guys amusing. And Wilson, like he just look up one of his at bats.

He's doing a ton at the plate. You think, hey, at some point slow down, but it's working for him. He's had an unbelievable season. He's absolutely gonna be the rookie of the year. And he's been great for the years. His bat to ball skills are amazing. He doesn't strike out much, he doesn't walk much,

but there's a lot going on before the pitch is thrown. And then when the ball comes, he hits it. Well, if we're talking about the A's and we're talking about the Sud, do we need to talk about Denzel Clark right now? Good Canadian kid. I imagine working at MLB Network, you guys must love this,

because he's a human highlight reel. It's been three straight weeks now. He's had the Chevrolet electric play of the game. I feel like I should still say the sponsoring member, but I'm not on the air, but what ends up being funny, Mike, as you know with my affinity for movies is that to think of like different Denzel lines now to use in each of the plays.

So the first one I did, I knew the audience would get, which was training day, King Kong ain't got nothing on me. But the next night I went with my favorite Denzel way, which is Malcolm X. And the great line, we didn't land on Plymouth rock Plymouth rock landed on us. And I'm thinking there's less and less people now getting these Denzel references. I have to go with like the Pelican brief, something, you know, but I should really, I should go with like virtue,

watching there or something that nobody's going to get the reference. We're speaking to Adnan Berg from MLB network here on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. I believe we are now just 50 days out from the MLB trade deadline on July 31st. How much of you guys already started looking forward towards it? What teams are going to be in shopping mode? Who's going to be on the block? And how big a story is it going to be as we get closer and closer to July 31st? Well, it's always a fun time of year. And you know, there's no other trade deadline that is,

I think, as much fun. You know, hockey, July 1st is fun time of year. There's no other trade deadline that is, I think, as much fun. You know, hockey, July 1st is a ton of fun, obviously. Free agency is amazing. I'm also really good in basketball. But like in football, you never hear of all the trade deadlines coming up. Again, I felt like nobody cares. Everyone knows the baseball trade deadline is the most important because it is the most momentous that you'll get actual movement.

And the thought has been that Sandy Alcantara will be the most perhaps impactful player to be traded. Now he's had just a miserable start to the season, the last couple of starts he's been pretty good. And you'd have to think if the Molins trade this guy and he's a former signing award winner, if people look at past history and believe that you know the aberration the first couple months is gone, he can be a real difference maker. So I'm already curious with the state of where pitching is, you can always use more pitchers every day. There's another great pitcher going down to injury. I went to the Tigers yesterday. They're starting pitching right now is better than it was back in 2013. And that's when they had those names of Verlander and Scherzer and Doug Fister and Annabelle Sanchez. Like, and yet one of their guys just went down, Jackson Jobe, their great

young starter is out with Tommy John for the season. So the Tigers specifically, I look at what are they going to do to bolster that team? And 125 years of existence, they're on pace for a record 105 wins. They could be partying wildly in Motown. So I'm curious, do they go out and get Alcantara? Do they make a big move? So yeah, trade deadline always exciting.

Um, add an N, we're going to talk to Pat Borders in about 15 minutes. What do you remember about his MVP run in 1992? And is he the most unlikely world series MVP in history? Because there's a couple others, like I think Mark. Was it, wasn't, wasn't the, what wasn't, wasn't

the old Jays hitting coach, Jean Tennis, a World Series MVP? That's right. Great pull on Gene Tennis. Absolutely. I don't know what year, but one of those 70s, 80s teams, Gene Tennis, wasn't he the guy had the batting helmet, no flaps. I can picture him now with the stash. Yeah, pack horrors, man.

Like it's through to here, the Navy just brings you back to your youth. It makes me think of those great Blue Jays teams in the late eighties and early nineties, but yeah, about as unlike the MVP as it gets, and that's part of what made baseball to me so special, especially that early nineties era before they really started juicing it up, but was like, you'd get these guys like him or Mark Lemke, like, you know, Kerry Pendleton was a good player and a great year in 91, but no one's expecting Kerry Pendleton to carry their team. That's what would happen.

But borders, especially on that team with all that talent around him, think of all the great Blue Jays of our era. If I just say George Bell, Tony Fernandez, Roberto Alomar, Joe Carter, we're like, oh, Pat Borders was an MVP. When they needed it most, Pat was at the bat. Great catcher, I love it.

Adnan, this was great, man. By the way, Gene Tennant's won the 1972 World Series MVP sandwich between Roberto Clemente and Reggie Jackson to give you an idea of the kind of guys they would normally win the big three. Yeah. Three genes like put me in there. I'm right there. Anyway, thanks for doing this today, but we really appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the week. We'll do this again next week.

The mean gene hit machine. Thanks so much. Boy, I'm actively seeking a big race. Remember, we'll be there. I'll speak to you. But see you later, buddy. Adnan Burke from Emily Network here on the Helford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. As mentioned, Pat Borders is going to be joining us around 730. So we've got some time here

to dive into back to the connects in the NHL rumors of the day. We already went over the latest Elias Pettersson stuff in detail. If you missed it, download our one of the podcasts or jump on the Sportsnet 650X slash Twitter account. We've got a video up there recapping everything

on the Elias Pedersen. People are responding favorably to it as you would imagine. Perfect. Oh, Adog putting another Pedersen video up on social media to make us look like even bigger psychos. This one was rather uninflammatory. What's the average? Yeah, it wasn't at all. You were just responding to the report.

That's all it was. It was very even-handed. Let's talk a little bit again about Marco Rossi. So in the same piece in which he was breaking down a bunch of different rumors, Pierre Lebrun writes that the Flames, the Canucks, and the Canadians, all three Canadian teams, are all looking for a young number two center, but he would say

among those three, the Canucks have the most interest in the Minnesota wilds, Marco Rossi. He then said that the flames are kind of 50 50 on them and the Habs aren't all that much in on them. Period. Let's play the audio. Is Laddie here? Let's play the audio from sat yesterday. This is about a minute and a half talking, um, with Dan Riccio on Canucks Central about the latest rumor tying the Vancouver Canucks to the young Minnesota Wilds Center.

Maybe not necessarily a perfect solution for the Vancouver Canucks for their 2C, but maybe the only solution available and what that means. Here's sat and Dan yesterday from Canucks Central on the Canucks interest in Marco Rossi. Sp interest in Marco Rossi Spoken about Marco Rossi in the past, but his name just keeps coming back and linked back with the Canucks, right now I'm still skeptical That he's going to be ultimately be the guy But as we've discussed so often here each

Given how few guys are available and we're talking about guy guy like Laffernier and he may not even be available. Do the Canucks go for the imperfect solution in Rossi? Like, do they actually take advantage of that? Let's say the cost is just the 15th overall pick. What's so imperfect about him? He's over 20 goals each of the last two years. I want you to say it again. Why are you baiting me? Why are you baiting me?

The reason I say he's imperfect is because he's not a guy that wins a lot of face-offs and that is a guy that plays in a lot of tough situations because that's what the Connexion are looking for. The profile of player they've been after for their center has been that type of player. That doesn't mean that they don't like Rossi, right? It just means he's not going to fit all their needs.

So if you bring him in, you're going to add another, you have to add another center as well. But is that still a better solution reach than what else is available to you? Like have they come to that conclusion perhaps that, Hey, maybe all we have to trade is a draft pick for a pretty young player who has upside. And then we can help him out by then getting that defensive center that can do the dirty work. So the question that I think is going to cloud every Canucks decision this summer is going to be, would they make the same decision if they weren't on the hot seat? That's the question that we asked about bringing back Elias Pedersen. Should they do it? That's the first question I would ask. So they pull the deal on a Marco Rossi trade

is would you make this same deal if you weren't on the hot seat and you didn't need to make a significant improvement to your lineup right now? Like the Jim Benning making trades to keep my job scenario? I mean, maybe not quite that dire, but. Whatever the fuel.

In that realm. Whatever the fuel is, doesn't matter, whether it's to keep your job or you know keep Queen Hughes There's something Pushing you to make an immediate move even if it's nothing right or short term than long term But just it's also there's there's a sense of we're gonna prioritize immediacy over effectiveness We're gonna prioritize the now as opposed to the right you know and you don't and now here's the thing like a beggars can't be choosers approach. We live in the day today

We live in the real world There is This pie in the sky idea that you can be patient you can be methodical Not here right now as far as I can tell Vancouver Canucks don't even know what the words patient and methodical mean right now. That actually, you know how we come up sometimes with slogans for the Canucks?

Yeah. The Vancouver Canucks, beggars can't be choosers. We live day to day. There is. So, you know, Sad then went on to add in that clip that if they bring in a guy like Rossi, the next sort of logical step is you're gonna need to bring in a 3C to do the stuff that the two C can't do.

Again, you got to do everything in the here and Rossi down the middle. Look out, Florida. Yeah. And you're going to need a three C to do a lot of stuff that the one and twos don't do. And unfortunately, maybe for those listening right now, I could see this organization do exactly that. Because it's not what you want, but it's what's available. And we've said this countless times.

We covered the NHL for a long time. I've seen numerous off seasons where teams that are either looking to step on the gas or looking to save themselves, make moves, not necessarily that are going to fix them, but are going to be the best fix at that moment did sat suggest that the Canucks could get Marco Rossi for a draft pick he threw it out there now I think maybe he was just saying in a hypothetical very good move though I mean like what there's the 15th overall pick yeah Market that he would only get a 15. Well, is it his size?

Because like, I mean, he's not big, but- No, he's deployed as a 4C in the playoffs. Is there a concern that because of his production, he has a strong case in arbitration or whatever, whenever I don't know if he's eligible for that now. I don't really understand the CBA. Just kidding. I kind of do understand the CBA. Just kidding. How does it work? I kind of do.

We'll ask your answer about that. Yeah. Um, but is there, is there a sense that, do you remember when Brandon Sutter was traded here? Yeah. And it was kind of like, well, Pittsburgh didn't really want to give him the contract that he was going to earn because they didn't feel like he

was a true 2C. Right. Is there a sense of that with Marco Rossi where people are like, you know, I like the player, but I don't like the bargaining power that he has in a contract. Yeah, I think that's part of it. I think if Garron's looking for where he's going

to allot his dollars moving forward, he doesn't want to put them in Rossi's pocket. But do other, would other teams feel that way? Because with a young center, I don't care how big he is, his point production. Is good. Is good. Yeah.

And for me, if I'm the wild, I'm looking for a lot for Marco Rossi, considering all the desperate teams out there for forwards, for centers. You know, like only a few of them, like, you know, one team's going to get Marner. He's not even a center. Then it's probably going to stay in Florida. So what are your options if you want to add a center and there's like at least 10 teams that want to add a center.

Yeah. So let's go down that road because one of my, you know, the thing that I keep paying attention to here is I'm like, the wild don't really seem all that concerned about damaging the Rossi brand prior to potentially trading them. They dropped them down to four C minutes in the playoffs. He was a bit contributor to their forward group. Garen, you know, either publicly or privately doesn't speak

glowingly about the player. And he's got a for sale sign around his neck. Well, I think they've had a relationship breakdown. Okay. What I'm saying is, to me, that lack of concern about quote unquote damaging the asset is because I think that they know that there's a bunch of teams that are gonna line up

from regardless of what they say. Short of like, he's got a criminal past. Like, you know, you're not gonna go there, but I don't think that, that to me is that when you're looking beyond the surface level stuff, I think what the Wilder's saying is, we've got this guy, he might not be long for us. However, we're pretty convinced that there's a lot

of other NHL teams that would like to have him. So we're not too worried about selling the product. And that's why when we come back to what the connects would have to offer, yeah, I would not think that just the first round pick would be enough. Although that's pretty dialed in. Maybe he's throwing it out there. Hypothetically, I don't know. We don't have him on the show today.

Who we do have on the show coming up is Pat borders. That's right. Former Toronto Blue Jays catch catcher the MVP of the 1992 World Series is gonna be the Nat this weekend along with another J from those World Series winning teams Todd Stottlemeyer There's a bunch of giveaways going on at the Nat this weekend There's a grand prize to go to Toronto to see a Jays game Pat and Todd will be signing Autographs on the concourse. So it's a very cool weekend for the Vancouver Canadians. We're going to talk to Blue Jays legend, Pat Borders coming up next on the

Halford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Vic Nazar. Have your say and join me on the people's show with big takes and even bigger bets weekdays three to four on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcasts. 732 on a Thursday. Happy Thursday everybody. Halford and Bruff Sportsnet 650. Halford and Bruff in the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. We are in Hour 2 of the program.

Pat Borders, former Blue Jays great. 1992 World Series MVP is going to join us in just a moment here, the highlight of Hour 2. Hour 2 of this program is brought to you by Jason Homonuck at Jason.mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Visit him online at Jason.Mortgage. Our next guest comes courtesy

of the Power West Industries hotline. Over a 17 year MLB career, he won two World Series, as I mentioned, the 92 World Series MVP, also one of just the handful of players in baseball history to have won both a World Series and an Olympic gold medal. Without further ado, our next guest joins us now. It's Pat Borders here on the Haliford and Brough show

on Sportsnet 650. Good morning, Pat, how are you? Good and good, how are y'all? We're good, thanks for taking the time to do this. We appreciate it. So we wanted to get caught up with what you've been doing lately. Not right now, as I understand it, you're taking the kids to do this. We appreciate it. So we wanted to get caught up with what you've been doing lately. Not right now, as I understand it, you're taking the kids to the water park. So that sounds like fun.

But post-playing career, you did get into the coaching game. You did some coaching in the Philadelphia Phillies organization. Now you're back at the university level doing some coaching. What's happened? Like, how has the coaching career been going for you? What's happened like? How has the coaching career been going for you? Well, I wanted to stay home more and be with the grandbabies, which we have in a car with us right now. And some of my children, I actually I want this 11 years old. So we're going to a water park for a birthday today. So they're all listening to the interview. I've been, I've been doing some stuff down with a local college and just,

just by chance, my son-in-law is Charlie Manuel's son and he's the head coach and he he talked me into going down and and and help with the catchers and the pitchers a little bit my wife made me do it said I needed to get out of the house and do some things so so I'm down there and it's been rewarding, it's been informative, it's been a real fun thing for me. They have some new technology, whether it were, especially with the college level, you can put a earpiece in the catcher's ear and tell him what to call, tell him how to move, tell him what to think, anticipating maybe stolen bases or you know different things,

balls in the dirt, different movements and whatever and it's been pretty educational for me. Hopefully it's been educational for the kids. Initially I started out just calling the pitches and then I thought it was a disservice to the catchers so I started like tell them why and what I'm saying and why I'm reacting to a pitcher's delivery, a pitcher's movement or a batter's intentions or his tails from pitch to pitch. So it's, I think, and from what the catchers tell me, it's been very good for them. And the goal for me is to turn them loose and let them call their own game. Who's a pitcher that you worked with and you worked with a lot of pitchers during Major

League Baseball career that you really enjoyed? You guys were both on the same page. There's a multitude of them. One that jumps out first of all is probably Todd Stoudelmar. Just spoke to him not too terribly long ago. Good friends. We were roommates for a long time. We were on the same page and at the same time we were extreme opposites. I remember one time I was asking

him to get the ball in the dirt and he couldn't get the ball in the dirt for some reason. And I went out to the mound and kind of got on him real heavily with some foul language because we were such good friends. He bounced the next one in the dirt and it hit off my clavicle I think. And he looked in after the pitch. This was during a game. And he says, well, how'd you like that one? A couple years later, just to expand a little bit, we got traded to two different teams. I was with Kansas City. He was with the Oakland A's.

And we were facing each other for the first time. And we're such good roommates. You know, he gets on the mound. The first pitch he threw in my head, he flipped me on purpose just to let me and we're such good roommates. You know, he gets on the mound, the first pitch he threw in my head, he flipped me on purpose just to let me know we're not friends. I got in the box and started cussing at him, we're yelling at each other.

During the game, pretty violently, he ended up striking me out and we're looking at each other, yelling at each other back, I went back to catch the next day, and I'm part of the team, and man, y'all don't like each other. Ah, No, we're good friends. We'll go out of dinner afterwards Competitive with each other. Hey, I've got to ask you a question about how you broke into catching given that you're teaching guys How to catch now was it true that when you you played your entire first year single a ball as a first baseman

And then you transition to being a catcher without having ever played catcher before Actually a little further than that. I got drafted as a third baseman. Never really played first base. Played third base a couple of years and did fairly well hitting. Not so much on the fielding part of it. And I had Kelly Gruber ahead of me. And I'm going like, this is an impossible task to leap over. I was a realist.

So I moved to first base. I got over to first base and looked ahead of me in the recessive field with Fred McGriff. I feel like, wow, as far as I know, there's only one first base on a plays in the big leagues and that's not gonna be me buying those two. So I anticipated that for a few years, it's hitting fairly well playing first base

at a marginal level and I came in and said, man, I'm gonna get released. I'm gonna get released this spring training. I'm gonna go in and ask the directors maybe to catch. Bobby Maddox was the field coordinator's time and went and told him, he said, you ever called before and I lied my ass off to him. I said, absolutely, I've called a lot.

And they threw me in a game that day. During the course of the first inning, this is the very first inning, I go down to block a ball, not knowing how to block a ball and it ripped off my dang thumbnail. Oh my God. And it just peeled it straight back,

and a couple pitches later, I get a foul ball in the throat, and I'm going like, wow, this is a bad career move. I'm not really, really, this may have been a really bad decision. I should have just taken my release and gone home and found a job. But it worked out pretty well.

I happened to throw out a runner that very first inning, by chance. I don't know how I did it. It certainly wasn't skill. And he said, well we'll give you a shot and we'll go and then proceeded to be the third string catcher in a ball at that point and got worked in from that point. Had you even put on a catcher's mitt before? Was it like this is an unusual glove? Absolutely not. Matter of fact my wife was laughing about this the other day we were talking about it. I put the catching gear on wrong. The skin guards can only go on. I had a 50-50 shot of putting on one correct and I was wrong. Oh that's amazing. Had the buckles going to the inside which you know if you get

hit in the buckle kind of drives it into your legs so you want the outside to just a little bit harder. But that was uh that was that was the experience in itself and then like I said I was the third string catcher and I believe at least three catchers ahead of me got hurt and had to have some kind of a surgery and or long debilitating injuries for the season and it forced me to move up to double a ball which i'd never even come close to getting to before and and played pretty well in uh... and and that in that situation that he gave me an opportunity to play on them

actually i went to a independent thing they sent me out to an independent team with uh... a bunch of a bunch of players from different organizations which normally the death sentence but uh... there was a bunch of myths that they're fighting in Oregon and You know have it all kinds of problems. I remember the first day there is That a player and the coach the manager Had to be pulled apart from each other were fighting. I'm going like this is a great place for me

I need I need to be here. This is wonderful Did you like the physical nature of of catching because it was a little different back then than it is now? Yes. You got turned loose to call pitches, to somewhat guide a pitcher, manipulate a pitcher emotionally or psychologically to do better. And it fit my personality, I enjoyed that. Uh, I played football and I was actually a quarterback in high school and that that kind of, that kind of was already, uh, instilled at me through the football

coaches that you had to force yourself to kind of help them and maybe course, uh, people. Nope. We lose Pat. They grew on me. And the more you did it, I'll tell you the more, the more I learned how to catch, the more I didn't, I realized how much there is learned about catching it. So in depth, uh, it takes years to be a really good catcher and you never fully

grasp or, uh, uh, master that position. I think you're always, always going to learn. Let's talk about 1992. I remember as a kid, as a, as a Jays fan, the thing about the Jays was they would always find a way to not get it done. And, you know, there were some collapses. I think you joined the Jays organization

in 88. So the year after they had the big collapse in 87. Um, and then there was progress and there are a couple of playoff appearances, but, uh, never got past the ALCS. So tell us about 1992 and the expectations heading into that season. And then ultimately getting over the hump, winning the world series and you, Pat Borders, were the MVP.

Well, my wife's listened to it. I got to get on speaker. She's getting chill bumps. She showed me chill bumps because she remembers all the, all the things we went through. Uh, I think, I think you have, you have to go through the losses and, and the failures to the failures to learn to be able to play well in the playoffs and I think that's what happened with us.

We lost to the twins and I wasn't part of that so-called collapse. You used that word. I would try to use a better adjective than that. But I think all those things are like stepping stones to get you or you need you we had we had a bunch of players that were through our ranks through the minor league systems and i think all that was beneficial to and let us to success including a a big trade at it that they gave

all the players the confidence that the organization was committed in winning when they got rid of some of the big-name players and bought in Joe Carter and and that lot from Diego so it was it that helped as well and I think you're you're really close to doing the same thing and you have to have some failures and you have to know that the organization is behind you will do anything and trade and spend as much money as they have to, to get you over the hump.

And I think that's about where the Blue Jays are right now. We're speaking to a Blue Jays legend, Pat Borders here on the Haliford and Bref show on Sportsnet 650. I wanted to ask you about Dave Steve and when you got to catch his no hitter. And that of course came after he flirted with no hitters multiple times before finally getting it done and you talked earlier in this call about having to sort of mentally coach some pitchers through some things and that you really relish that opportunity. What do you remember about that no hitter in particular because Steve had gotten so close so

many times. What was it about getting him over the finish line and finally getting that no-no? Well you talk about psychology you don't want him to have to shake too much you don't have you want him to have too much doubt in what you do so you're trying to make him as comfortable as possible so you're in sync with him what he wants to throw what he what he's want to throw in a particular count does he want to miss with a pitch and that nature. It's a lot of pressure both ways.

You don't want to aggravate him or distract him. He had given up those prior hits late in games like that. It was as stressful on me as I'm sure it was on him as well in trying to make him as comfortable and call the right pitches and sometimes you feel like that he was, because I was a younger catcher at the time, would acquiesce and say I'm going to go in whatever you call. Well, heck, that puts the pressure completely on you and you feel responsible if you ever give up a hit. Okay Pat, your final question is can you quickly name all nine of your kids?

Lindsey, Levi, Luke, Laura, Beth, Leah, Lance, Lily, Livia, Landry Well done well done Hey, what if you asked me about the birthdays? I got zero chance. Well. Yeah, no dad's do Say that was the last questions Hey This was great. Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this today. We really appreciate it It was great talking you enjoy the water park today to do this today. We really appreciate it. It was great talking to you. Enjoy the water park today. Very good. We'll see you. Thank you. That's Pat borders.

Blue Jays legend here on the health and the restaurant sports net six 50. So real quick this weekend at the nat it's going to be, it's funny that they're going to be reunited at the net. Maybe they'll fight. And Pat borders are going to be there this weekend. Um, they're going to be on the Concourse signing autographs. It's Saturday, June 14th at the Nat. And if you're in attendance for the game, there will be a giveaway for a trip to Toronto to see the Jays.

So get out to the Nat this weekend, support the Cs. You can see Pat Borders, you can see Todd Stottelmeyer. Maybe you can win a trip to Toronto to see the Jays. Man, it was so cool when the Jays finally won that World Series. It really was. I wasn't as jaded as I was, as I am now. You know, they, they had, they had such a unique

collection of characters too on that team. Like it was an eclectic group, but super talented and flirted with success so many times. And then for them to finally win that World Series, it was wild. It was like, wait a minute, a team from Canada has won the World Series. So in 92,

it was like when Baltimore won the Grey Cup. Yeah, same, probably the same. Same vibes. Yeah. Can you believe this happened? People of Baltimore. Here's a full circle moment for you. In 1992, Pat Borders, who won the MVP, finished the World Series with a 450 batting average, the highest on the Blue Jays and the second highest of anybody that played in the series. Do you know who led the World Series that year in batting average the highest on the Blue Jays and the second highest of anybody that played in the series

Do you know who led the World Series that year in batting average? Oh, Deon Sanders Yep Now it comes with an asterisk is the only batted in four of the games when you go two for four busy taking helicopters Yeah, Pat borders and Deon Sanders the two best hitters in that series. Man. Okay. Uh, Freage is reporting that the Crider deal, um, to Anaheim is done. Larry Brooks originally reported that Crider had signed off on the trade to Anaheim. Do we have Deets?

Do we have any Deets? Uh, according to Freedman, uh, Crider and a mid round pick to the Ducks for Kerry Terrence, and a mid-round pick. Swapping mid-round picks. And Kerry Terrence. This is a, I mean, this is a salary dump for the Rangers, and also, I think. But it helps the Ducks.

Terrence is 20 years old, a former 59th overall pick in 2020. He's from upstate New York as well. There you go. It's interesting, because it's not a useless player. No, no, no. He'll go to Anaheim. But he had a bad year last year.

He did, he had a bad year. He ever had vertigo? No. Chris Crider had vertigo. Yeah, I've heard that's very tough. Don't you remember at the end of the year when he did the laundry list of things that ailed him this year?

Was it sort of like, hey, I'm not completely washed yet? Because he's still got a term left on that car. Yeah. And Anaheim is going to take the full pull. And I guess for Anaheim, it kind of makes sense because they want to get better right now. And if they can squeeze something out of Crieder and to true a deal for them, I know on the surface it felt like a pure salary dump, but it was from the Rangers. But again, Anaheim needed guys like him and they're not gonna get them

Maybe in the sort of traditional way like they don't have them on the active roster I think they needed veteran guys. Yeah, that's it. They need veteran guys And yeah, you can't let radco good is to all the heavy lifting right the best captain in the NHL Is it still weird to see Chris Crider as a former 50 goal scorer? I remember that year Seem real to me that he scored 52 goals in 2022. Yeah, he was always more of like a 30, 35 goal guy. He was 20 before that.

He started getting into the 30s after the 50 goal season. I mean, some guys have a wild career. Yeah, a very good career too, right? I mean, we're so old, we remember when he broke in as a rookie in the playoffs. That was in the 2012 playoffs. And John Tordarello was like, he doesn't know what he's doing, but it's kind of effective. So we're going to play. Look at the kid. He's a giant. Yeah.

And he was like, also he's like, we're not going to coach him. We're like, we're not going to screw this up by coaching him. And they just let him go. And he scored. So I think he scored five goals that playoffs and he was, it was an interesting start. And he was, I mean, he's going to go down as one of the great Rangers of all time. He played there for what, 13 years, never got them to a Stanley Cup, it got him awfully close.

And I don't know if he'll be in the Pantheon or whatever, but his number will be retired. So we heard that the Ducks are gonna be busy and aggressive this off season. This is a start. They're one of the teams people are kicking around as a potential landing spot for Mitch Marner. And we all know that they are in step on the gas

mode, hired Joel Quinville as the head coach and the owner is putting in millions and millions, almost a billion dollars into renovating the arena. And there's a big development around the arena. They've been rebuilding for long enough now. I'm curious to see if they move any guys out and if that could be Trevor Zegres. Gets moved out because I think they're bringing in serious hockey players. Like Truba and Kreider, especiallyider, I would say, has been through a lot. He's going to bring a lot of experience to that room, a room that probably needs some experience.

For sure. And I think it was kind of like, you know, it's enough of playing like kids. Yep. Because this is a big boy league and we got to bring in some, I mean, if you think about Trubo, whatever you think about his overall game, you look at the numbers, probably not that all impressive, but that guy's tough. I mean, he's, some people would call him dirty. He lands some big hits and Chris Crider is a big, tough power forward.

That, I mean, if you were to say like, what's a power forward? You'd be like. Chris Crider. There you go. He's the modern power. Chris Crider is a big tough power forward. I mean, if you were, if you were to say like, what's a power forward? You'd be like. Chris Crider. There you go. He's the modern power. Chris Crider. You know, will they go after a big free agent

like Mitch Marner and do they have a chance to land a guy like Mitch Marner? And this is all relevant to the Canucks because the Ducks are in their division. Yep. It used to be two points. You get two points out of Anaheim for the last couple of years, wasn't a problem, but they've got a,

it's the third longest playoff drought in the national hockey league at seven years. And you just get the feeling that with everything that's going on around the team, now's the time. So I'll be very curious to see if they get in on Marner, by the way, a couple other ones that I wanted to pass along, uh, news and notes from around the national hockey League on Bo Horvat

and Matthew Barzell, two guys tied to Vancouver for different reasons. Pierre LeBrun reported yesterday that while there is a long list of teams eager to see what the islanders are going to do with these two guys, the new GM, Matthew Darsh, has shot it down. He's told both players that they're staying put While that'll be disappointing for the teams that were shopping for these guys were there rumors around or vet. Yes. Oh, okay Yeah in the sense of if you're bringing in Not Lou Lammerle and you're bringing in a new regime would they consider doing a complete overhaul?

Right because I mean it makes sense. Well, I just don't know why poor fat though I get his you know, cuzvat, though, I get. Because you get assets for Horvat, I would imagine. If you're going to start a rebuild. Oh, OK. It was like, oh, OK. They were thinking talking, talking rebuild. And I didn't want to like I was going to go down this road. Who cares what the islanders? But the the close those version for the islanders is there's a lot of people

that are like, we can't keep doing this. Yeah. Around the same guys like is Casey Zeke is still playing here like that. We got to we got to pick apart this team a little bit. Some people thought that them finally moving off of Brock Nelson was the first sign of OK, it's time to rebuild. Darsh has said, no, we still think we've got the bones of a playoff team here, largely starting with our strength down the middle with Horvat and Barzell. Horvat, whatever I am.

I'm more interested in Barzell because I thought that there was a real opportunity for the Canucks or another team to pry a guy that seems like a change of scenery would benefit. He just turned 28 years old. He's got a nine million dollar cap at nine point one, which is a bit steep now. But with the cap going up, I don't think it's bad that bad. And it goes back to my original thought that the more guys that you can get to bring Back home that grew up in the area

It's this new generation of guys that grew up with the Canucks as being a glory team All these guys that have memories of the 2011 team. Yeah, I feel like you could play into that So there's this anecdote that I found in the athletic With Barzell where he was playing at Burnaby Winter Club and they got to go on the ice During one of the skills competitions that the Canucks had in 2011. And he says he remembers standing in awe, watching the Sedenes,

and Rafi Torres came up to him and talked to him. Of all the guys. He's like, you should hit more people in the head. Don't do that. But the idea was, the idea was, a guy that has those childhood memories of great Canucks teams and wanting to go back as it goes from him to the modern guys,

Bidard and Celebrini, like unabashed Canucks fans. Bidard's like, I love Tyler Mott, which is a weird one. Well, you thought all of them would have grown up loving the Sidines, but some of them like Tyler Mott, which is fine. Point being, they grew up with successful Canucks teams and iconic guys, specifically the Sidines, and I thought it would be a great opportunity to get them back. Alas, it sounds as though the Islanders are holding onto them.

Okay. Thomas Trantz is going to join us next. Uh, it's always interesting when Trantz is on the Halford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650. Before we go to break, I need to tell you about the BC Lions. School's out and summer's here. Kick it off with the BC Lions summer camp game, Saturday, June 21st at 4pm. For details and tickets, visit them online at bclions.com.