Halford & Brough in the Morning - Mike Tanier on NFL Weekend + San Jose Superstars

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

In Hour 2, Josh Elliott-Wolfe and Thomas Drance are joined by Mike Tanier to make sense of a hectic NFL weekend, including breaking down the best rookie Quarterbacks, and firing some shots at some questionable decisions. Then the guys react to Drance's hottest football takes. After, they look ahead to the visiting San Jose Sharks and their elite young forward Macklin Celebrini. How have the Sharks done in acquiring futures, and what will their team look like tonight? This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Welcome back to Halford and Brough. No Halford, no Brough. It's Josh Elliott-Wolf and Thomas Drance here with you, coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Sorfy, what are you waiting for? Kintec, that's what you're waiting for.

650-650, the Dunbar Lumber Text Line, Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and reno warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at DunbarLumber.com. Halford & Brough is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today. Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today and this hour of Halford & Brough for Jason.Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money,

then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. That's Jason.Mortgage. We go to the phone lines now. It is Mike Tenier, NFL writer and founder of two deep zone appreciate you taking the time mike how are you yippee-ki-yay and a happy festivus to everyone happy festivus happy holidays uh appreciate you taking the time by the way we we played that uh

the the viking seahawks clip coming in and i know you had written about the Vikings a few days ago and and kind of how the penalties are going their way and and how that might not carry over to the playoffs but it carried over to yesterday they got a lot of good breaks yesterday in Seattle on route to the win how sustainable do you think this is for Minnesota you're right they had a couple of breaks I mean the most notable I think at the end is the face mask penalty that turns a sack into a first down and sets up this big Jefferson touchdown when the Seahawks are clinging to a lead. And, you know, the Vikings do this, it seems like, every year.

Their record is surprising. You look at them more carefully and say, oh, wow, there's a lot of pass interference penalties in there. Opponents keep missing field goals, or they keep making 55 or 58-yard field goals and all these things. And it usually is fine until the playoffs. And in the playoffs, you know, they're not facing mistake-prone teams. They're not necessarily getting calls.

They're often not at home, and they weren't at home yesterday. But when they're at home, they do get, like, more false starts, et cetera. And that's when it peters out. Right now, I'm looking at, unbelievably, impressive win. They needed to, you know, Seahawks are a tough out. They got past them. They still have the Packers. They still have the Lions.

Packers are just as strong as the Vikings, and the Lions are running plays now where they trip and fall on purpose just to mess with their opponents. That's how far ahead of the field the Lions are. They're just making up new weird playground plays just to tinker with, to keep themselves interested. Vikings are very good. Let's see how they respond when they have to face these next two tough opponents.

And on the Seahawks' side, didn't get the win, backs up against the wall, and they kind of need things to go their way with the Rams if they're going to make the playoffs. What do you think of this season for Seattle? Like, is it a disappointment for them to be where they are now or did they exceed your expectations for this season? You know, entering the season, I looked at them and, like, well, this is a team that kind of goes 500 or a little better 500 every year.

Yeah, they change coaches, but it's the same quarterback, same receivers, same playmakers, a lot of the same offensive line. Not that many new faces on defense. They look like the same team to me. And they've come out this season, and there's been a lot of ups and downs. And, you know, with the regular hosts, we've documented the ups and downs. They still look like the same team. You know, when they're out there and they're facing somebody's backup quarterback

or they're facing a weak team, they can go out and dominate. When it's them head-to-head with another one of the teams that they're in the middle of the pack, sometimes they hold their own, sometimes they don't, then you get a game like this one or some of the games they had against other strong teams like the Bills earlier in the season, and they just don't quite measure up. This was a heartbreaker in that they had that chance to win, in that they kind of came back from that early deficit, and they just, nothing came together just right. They couldn't cover Jefferson when they had to. Geno couldn't get a comeback with a couple

opportunities late in the game, making mistakes, you know, taking sacks, et cetera. I would call it a disappointing season because if you're going to change coaches, I think you need to change more. And I think you have to make more of a statement. And the Seahawks failed to make that this year. So airing of grievances time, right? Festivus. Let's, let's get in spirit. Oh, when the grievances were good. I want to do it from a Seahawks perspective first. Sorry.

Okay, okay, okay. Go, go, go. Geno Smith must be saying, hey, can I get a block, like, ever? Can he get a block ever? And that's been a journey all season because there were parts of the season where the right side of your offensive line been a journey all season because there were parts of the season where the right side of your offensive line did not exist.

And then there were parts of it where it was kind of okay. And I'll flip that a little bit. Can he get a block? Can you get some consistency out of your running game? Because the running backs and Walker and Charbonnet and the others have to be looking at this like, you know, third and one is impossible for us. Like, we're going to have to break two tackles to get to the line of scrimmage in some of these plays.

So I think that's one of the things that the Seahawks, I'm looking at them as a team that's not going to make the playoffs right now. They should be addressing the offensive line in the offseason. They've got to say who stays, who goes, get some depth there. That's part of it. And I think they've got to look at it schematically a little bit and say, why can't we, why are we so bad in the red zone? Why are we so bad at the goal line?

Why are we so bad at third and two? Is that the offensive line, or is there something schematic that's putting us in a position where these are makeable opportunities and we're not getting them? So, I have a theory. I want to pitch this to you. What do you think of this? Gino Smith and C.J. Stroud are having the same season.

Oh, it's very similar, isn't it? Right? Yes. I was thinking about it while watching that Texans game, and I was like, I'm pretty sure C.J. Stroud isn't playing as badly as I feel like he's playing, and yet I feel like he's playing really badly. And it just occurs to me that that's how I feel watching he's playing, and yet I feel like he's playing really badly.

And it just occurs to me that that's how I feel watching Geno every week. Yeah, and the big difference is that Stroud, the pass rush is coming right into his face the moment he gets his hands on the ball. There's a guy in his face that came right through the center gap, so it looks like he's playing terribly. When you watch more carefully, it's like, oh, he's okay. He's in this intolerable position. He gets the ball.

He has to run right away. He's scrambling. And he has to kind of toss the ball. And nobody but Nico is coming through for him. And for Geno, it's more like, oh, okay, it's second 11 already because we didn't get anything on first down. And the pass rush is coming from my right side, and I've got to scramble and make a play.

And at least my receivers are usually doing a better job getting the ball. So I think that's it. Of course, you know, the flip side of that is Stroud still has upside room to go, et cetera. Smith has kind of maxed out with what he's doing right now. And, you know, if this team is moving forward with Geno, they have to make that commitment and say, okay, then we're going to really bulwark the offensive line.

Looks like we're going to run it back with Smith, Jigba, and Metcalf, and I don't know how much the other guy has left, how much Rocket has left, but we've got to make sure that we get the most out of Geno and it will probably be his last season with the Seahawks. So, I mean, we're only like five weeks removed from the Rams being rumored to be making, well, not rumored,

credibly reported to be making Cooper Cup available on the trade market. They've reeled off this run of games. They control their own destiny, but we're also not far removed from like, we're three weeks removed from the Cardinals being the betting favorite. They got eliminated by Bryce Young yesterday. I mean, are we sure there's not another twist to come, another shoe to drop in the NFC West here?

I hate that division. I hate it in a fashion. You're a McBride fantasy owner. I mean, I wrote a big article feature about how the Cardinals have pulled it together, and they weren't going to swoon in December like they did like three times in the last four years. And, of course, they went out and did that. And you look at the Rams, of course, it's the Bills game. The Bills game is one in which they went out there and they stomped the Bills.

They held them off at the end, and that was shocking. Because you look at the rest of their last couple of wins, New Orleans Saints quit, Niners in the rain quit, Jets can't wait to just lay down and just fall asleep on the field at this point. So they won against a lot of quick, quick, quick teams, and then they surprised the Bills with this huge win. Of course there might be another twist coming up because you've got Rams facing the Cardinals and Seahawks. You've got the Seahawks.

They should have a winnable game on Thursday night, but that could come down to that final game. And if it does come down to the final game and the Seahawks were not eliminated along the way, that could be the final twist. So is there reason to believe that we shouldn't just bet Green Bay minus 14.5 in round one against the Rams? Do I have a – is it Spencer Rattler tonight? Yeah, they have Spencer Rattler tonight. But that defense is, like, actually coming together now. I actually feel bad for Rattler because he had one good start against the Chargers who are decent. Yes. And then he got crushed by the Broncos when that defense was on fuego. Right. It feels like if you catch them now, it's not quite as scary as it was that week. And

now he's facing a Packers team that I don't think we're recognizing as being this elite defense. And yet they're playing. I mean, they're the best defense in the league since week eight by DVOA. I mean, this is coming together in a pretty serious way for the Packers. Yeah, the Packers are in this tricky position where they're probably the fourth best team in the NFC and the third best team in their division,

so they're easy to overlook. I also don't have a full Saints injury report in front of me, but Olave has been gone for weeks. Yeah, he'll be out. Olave's not playing tonight. Olave's out. I think Kamara's out. And so Rattler's out there throwing to Dante Pettis.

Guys like that when he gets out there. And I have some injuries along the offense. MVS erasure. Oh my gosh. Marquez Valdez-Scanley. Well, he'll have his one 30-yard catch. That we can count on. One catch, 30 yards.

Maybe it's a touchdown. Who knows? I had Jawan Johnson. But the only thing I don't like about the two-touchdown spread is I don't know how cold it's going to be in Green Bay. And if this turns into one of these sort of icicle games, the Packers might just be sitting on the ball in the second half. Plus, like, a random turnover or two. But obviously the Packers are going to win this game. I just would not lay 14 points.

And what about against the Rams in week one of the playoffs? Because that's the one I'm eyeing. I'm like, oh, man, I can't wait to absolutely mash an alt line, betting on the Packers to crush the Rams. Maybe not as tasty as the three-seed matchup I was hoping I was getting when I thought it would be the Falcons with Kirk Cousins a couple weeks ago, but nonetheless, something I'm excited about. The Falcons are still stumbling around out there.

Yeah, it's true, especially thanks to Rashad White. Yeah, they had a good—and you'd be catching Michael Penix just when the new rookie smell would wear off at that point. You got a little bit of a book on him. So that's another way it could go. It'd be a little scary. You go into L.A. Matthew Stafford's a different quarterback when it's cold outside

than when he's comfortably in L.A. there. So that would be a little bit of a scarier matchup right there. But if you're a Packers fan right now, get this win tonight and then keep your eye on the Vikings because there's a lot of things still in play. The division is not in play, but you can come in with a top wild card and you want to be the top wild card if you can make that work.

You mentioned Michael Penix and the Falcons. What did you think of his debut for Atlanta? You know what? He did everything he had to do. Early in the game, his receivers were not helping him. They were dropping passes on him, but they overcame that. Say again? Kyle Pitts.

So Jover. Kyle Pitts just broke 60. Any fantasy heart that he hadn't broken in the last three years got broken with him shot putting the ball directly to a defender in that game. Absolutely no help from him. But you know what? Two touchdowns by the defense. Bijan out there being Bijan, just five yards, six yards, seven-yard runs,

grinding it out, and putting Penix in a position where he did not have to do much. He could game manage and get a big, easy win against a terrible opponent. I think it was a smart move by Raheem Morris. Let Penix get out there, get his confidence up, electrify, energize the team a terrible opponent. I think it was a smart move by Raheem Morris. Let Penix get out there, get his confidence up, electrify, energize the team a little bit. Don't let Kirk Cousins go out there against the Giants and milk a little victory and be like, oh, I gave us a chance to win with my game magic.

No, start a new era, get this young man out there, get his confidence up, and that's what I saw from Penix and the Falcons yesterday. Jayden Daniels is going to win Offensive Rookie of the Year. I just checked the odds again. I checked them earlier. He was like minus 20,000. Minus 20,000.

I think that's it. I'm not playing that one. I'm not playing that. He's a minus 20,000. Yeah. So he's going to win Rookie of the Year. But can we do a ranking of first round quarterbacks, rookies that we saw this season? Like and not based on how you'd seen, which quarterbacks,

true talent ranking of the first round quarterbacks based on what they put on tape, so we'll exclude J.J. McCarthy. Okay, with Daniel's number one. Just like the Vikings will this offseason. Oh, that situation's good. Yeah, it's fascinating. You know, we spent years talking about what are we going to do with Kirk Cousins? Now it's going to be what do we do with Sam Darnold and J.J. McCarthy?

The Vikings create quarterback dramas for us. We're going to put Daniels number one. I'm going to put Bo Nix number two, even though he's been kind of propped up a little bit by that defense. And I'm going to put Drake May number three. Heck yeah. Because he has no one to throw to. He has no one to pass protect him.

He goes out there by himself every week and he stayed healthy and he's delivered a few plays here and there. Threw a little scare into the Bills yesterday and I guess that puts Caleb Williams fourth and I think the problem with Caleb Williams right now, he does have pretty good receivers. He has an adequate offensive line.

They're a far worse offensive line than theirs. He's got no coaches. He's got no coaches, and he's getting no coaching. And he's going out there against opponents like the Lions. So he's in a very untenable situation. He's made some really good throws. He's very courageous out there, stumbling away from would-be sacks and firing the ball downfield.

But it's just getting worse and worse around him. Then when he presses too much, he makes a big mistake, takes a ton of sacks. He was just not put in a very good position. All right, let me throw a player comp at you and get your take. Bo Nix, Teddy Bridgewater. Oh, that's good. That's good. Right? Yeah. Yeah, go out there. Oh, that's good. That's good.

Right? Yeah. Yeah, go out there. Don't lose the game. Distribute the short passes. Run a bit. I have a hard time. I have a hard time with Bridgewater at comps because his leg exploded,

and it kind of ended his career. We have no idea where he would have gone from there, but he was a lot like Teddy Bridgewater. He was a lot like Teddy Bridgewater in college, where he was this win-the-game phenom a little bit, and you looked at the tape and were like, yeah, it's good. Pretty good. I'm not sure what I'm looking at

because it looks like he's getting a lot of help, but that's a good comp. I'm going to keep throwing comps at you just because, again, I'm a hockey writer whose show on this program since I'm the fill-in today is usually called Canucks Talk, and I don't usually get to talk football.

So I'm going to drop all my football hot takes over the next three minutes. All right, ready? Okay. Romeo Dobbs and Marvin Harrison Jr. Oh, I don't know. It seems like an insult. But it's more an insult to Romeo Dobbs

because he's good at the catch point. It's been on and off whether Murray has been able to get the ball downfield to Harrison. When the ball is in his radius, Harrison does get it. Except in the red zone yesterday. That was wild when he couldn't track that ball. That was an interesting one. Dobbs makes that catch.

Or Dobbs takes two weeks off because he's mad at somebody. That might happen, too. A little bit of that going on. Hit me with another one. All right. Well, okay. Malik neighbors halfway between Cooper Cup and Tyreek Hill. I think he's just a different guy than those. I'm trying to say, I mean, he does catch a lot of short passes

the way Cooper Cup and Tyreek Hill do, but that's because the Giants are pathetic. You know, I think he... I mean, Drew Locke, they have to get him his screen passes. It's all Drew Locke or Tommy Cutlets are going to get to him, and they don't want him complaining about not getting the ball. But he's a jump ball guy down the field, et cetera, et cetera. I would be looking for a comp for neighbors for, like, you know,

the best receiver on, like, in the worst possible situation. And nothing's coming to me on, like, four hours of sleep right now. But that's my impression of neighbors. BTJ is the halfway point between Justin Jefferson and CeeDee Lamb. coming to me on like four hours of sleep right now. But that's my impression of neighbors. Um, I BTJ is the halfway point between Justin Jefferson and CD lamp. Who was the guy? Oh, sorry.

Brian Thomas jr. Oh, Brian. Oh, he's really good. Right. He's really good. Now you,

you put him in some serious company there. I think, I think he belongs there. I, and I'll say like, like Jefferson, it is gliding downfield speed and cuts in the open field and then suddenly he's open and you look at him and like there's no way he should be open on this he's like well he just ate up the coverage so he can

develop into that kind of guy yeah all right when we look at the rookie receivers how how do you rank and we can go beyond the first round but we can also exclude guys like jowlin polk right who don't really matter how would you rank like the top five rookie receivers we've seen again true talent not just based on what they put on tape this year but based on overall what they've brought what you hope for them for in the future yeah i'm not super prepped up for this i'll say pj has yeah that's I'll say BTJ has an outstanding job. Marvin Harrison has had his moments, certainly. I think Neighbors is as talented as any of them.

But, again, it is painful to watch that offense and say, you know, the ball's not going to get 10 yards downfield. What kind of screenplay can we develop for him? Here's one that's not overlooked at all, Ladd McConkie. Yeah. Ladd McConkie is a guy, you know, he had injuries. He belongs ahead of Marvin Harrison, man. I would put him ahead of Marvin Harrison right now

because of what he's accomplished this season. I think period. I just think he's better. Okay, I'll say this. McConkie was hard to evaluate in college because, first of all, Georgia has 80 weapons. Yeah. Secondly, he was on and off with injuries

that they didn't bother reporting most of the time. So you'd have these games where Ladd-McConkie would have three catches for 37 yards, and you're trying to evaluate him. Then you realize, well, first of all, they were up 56-0, and he didn't have to throw the ball. And secondly, he had a hamstring injury, but he was still beating coverage. And he comes out, and now he's healthy,

and the charges of no one else for Herbert to throw to, he's done an outstanding job. I mean, there is no offensive rookie of the year race because of Daniels, but he'd be a sleeper in that race if there really was one. And a fifth guy, sorry, is we throwing Keon in there to round out our top five? Keon Coleman, you know, I didn't love him coming out of college. He's been good. He's also a little bit of a pass dropper in college, a little bit of a pass

dropper in the NFL. He was talking about how they made him jump into the snow banks and everything like that as punishment for some of his drops. But he's a delicious part of the nutritious breakfast up there in Buffalo, where you only need one or two plays down then from him, because they've got

15 guys to make them, and also Josh Allen will do most of it himself. He's had a pretty fun rookie year. Hey, Mike, really appreciate you taking the time, and happy holidays. Absolutely. Happy holidays, everyone. Take care and enjoy your week. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for letting me nerd out on

football for once. There is Mike Tenier, NFL writer and founder of 2DeepZone. We can talk more football on the other side, buddy. Thanks for letting me nerd out on football for once. There is Mike Tenier, NFL writer and founder of 2DeepZone. We can talk more football on the other side, too. No, we're going to talk hockey. He's got it all out of his system now. We can do a little bit. I'll go all day, but I'm just saying. I'll go all day, but also when we're off radio,

I'm just going to do it all day anyway. That's true. I mean, we've got a Canucks game tonight. Yeah, we can do both. I'm going to give the people what they want. No, it's fine. It's December 23rd. But that segment was very much for me.

Thanks for the Christmas present from Halford and Brough. On the other side, we will get into the Canucks and much more. It is Halford and Brough. Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas, Drance filling in on Sportsnet 650. I don't care. You guys want to talk about it? You want to ask me? Ask me all you want.

I don't know why people still try and make it up. Is this the Patterson Miller remix? Can you play it again? Because the fact like there's something about like, very dead prez backtrack there and then the bleep that makes it feel like it's a parentally approved version of, like, a rap track. You know what I mean? I don't care. You guys want to talk about it?

You want to ask me? Ask me all you want. I don't know why people still try to make it up. He's on beat. Yeah. Good job beating Heck of a mix It is Halford and Brough

Josh Elliott Wolf That's not the real song In the real song he says You're not playing We're not playing the real song It's 7.30 in the morning You might be able to play You might be able to get away

With playing the real song Fair enough Josh Elliott Wolf Thomas Drance Filling in for Halford and Brough Coming to you live from the Kintex studio and you can text in

on the 650 650 Dunbar Lumber text line. Halford and Brough is brought to you by the Dilawri family of Honda dealers. Experience the Dilawri difference today.

Visit your nearest Dilawri Honda dealer today. And also this hour of Halford and Brough is for Jason.Mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. That's Jason.Mortgage.

A lot of techs coming in. Enjoying your nerdy note with Mike Tenier. Did you like my comparison, Josh? Oh, yeah. What was your comparison? It was like that scene in Step Brothers where Derek, the brother, shows up at the dinner table and the dad is just enamored by him

and won't stop talking to him and just is throwing stuff at him a mile a minute. You were like the dad. And Tenier was like Derek. I've never seen him like this before. I've never seen him like this before. So, yeah. We can get into more NFL talk as the the show goes on maybe in what we learned

uh some people by the way get your what we learned yeah we got some bowl questions and we got some college football playoff takes in the what we learned so if you think you've seen drance nerd out you haven't seen the half of it yet you haven't seen my sec takes. Let's go. It's got SEC takes. Heck yeah, I do. But the Vancouver Canucks, they do play a game tonight. That might be the whole reason we're here today and tomorrow, by the way, because the Vancouver Canucks, they do play a game tonight against the San Jose Sharks. It's at 6 o'clock on Amazon Prime. And 6 o'clock at Rogers Arena, which is good,

because I feel like it's nice to have a bit of an earlier one right before Christmas. Yeah, I don't know why I thought this game was at 7.30. I think last week threw me off. These Monday games are always weird times. Well, I'm glad because I'm obviously going to go and cover the game now that I'm feeling healthier. And, you know, a 6 o'clock start given that I had a 6 a.m. start on the morning show. That's a win. Yeah.

Tomorrow, by the way, we're 8 to 11 on this show. Thank goodness. Thank you, Canberra. You're a hero. Well, except he extended it by an hour. Yeah, by the way. Sign me up for a two-hour show, and then he's like, it's three hours on Christmas Eve. Yeah, enjoy. Yeah, thanks for the present, Mr. Grinch.

Yeah, he got the Christmas boys lacking, that's for sure Also, we forgot, we had so much petty drama to get into in what happened Yeah That we ignored, one last football take from me We ignored that Randeep Janda has qualified for the 650 Fantasy League Final Did he? Yeah, he beat Jamie Dodd's super team Wow Which means Did you win? has qualified for the 650 Fantasy League final. Did he? Yeah, he beat Jamie Dodd's super team.

Wow. Did you win? Yeah, obviously. Which means finals cakewalk for your boy. Sorry, Randy. Sorry, Randy. Well, okay, so. I'm 100% the actual good team that gets to face the team that got hot at the right time.

You know what I mean? This is 4-1 Stanley Cup final win coming up. Love that for me. Canberra, transfer me the money early. It's over. I can't even defend Randy here because if you look at both of the teams, and we're not going to go through the teams, Trance's team is better.

Dude, he auto-drafted his team. I got this. It's over. But I mean, to make it to the final with an auto-drafted team, that's a win for Randy. Absolutely. I'll give him that. Kudos to him.

I did not even make the playoffs. But I'm the Transformers, and I'm going to destroy the Autobots. Fair enough. Fair enough. I'm proud of you. Thank you. I'm proud of myself. How excited are you to see Macklin Celebrini in person tonight?

And so the thing I want Canucks fans to watch for tonight in understanding why Macklin Celebrini has translated so quickly and so well at the NHL level, which was no surprise to me, to be totally honest with you, given what I'd seen from him in the past. He's got that rare skill that great players have where he's in an outrageous amount of control of his surroundings. And in particular, you know, he's got that thing where it's basically impossible to send him a bad pass because he'll control it with his skate or with his backhand or with an outstretched blade. He'll knife it to himself. Like his control over his environment is straight up. And I hesitate to drop this comp because it's unfair pressure to put on, you know, a local kid done right. But I'm speaking solely of his ability to control his immediate surroundings and control all manner of pucks thrown at him, whether they're bouncing off speed, too fast, off target. It's a little bit Crosby-like. That part of his game is a little bit Crosby-esque.

And what's crazy is that he's got a whole variety of other skills that remind you of a whole variety of other great players. You know, he's so conscientious about body position between his net and the puck, it's a little bit, gets some shades of Taves, right? Like, he's got a one-timer from that right-side half-wall on the power play that honestly reminds me a little bit of Young Pedersen, right? Like, there's all this different stuff that he's got in his bag. It's wildly impressive to watch this young man play.

And he's just a ton of fun, plays the game fast, plays the game very well. And I think like, I really do think also, you know, this Canucks team I think is ripe. People want to get annoyed with this Canucks team right now, right? Because the results have been spotty and the performances have been inconsistent. And if you paid to go to a Canucks game, you know, you've been most likely treated to a disappointing evening out from a team

results standpoint. So I feel like people are keen to rag on this Canucks team. And if they don't play well against the Sharks, even if they sneak out a win, right? Even if you win in overtime, people are going to be like, and they can't even beat the Sharks before Christmas. But this Sharks team is not to be trifled with. This is not free points night.

This Sharks team is serious. They're a serious team. I don't mean they're seriously good, but they conduct themselves seriously and they have a shot game in, game out, in part because Macklin Celebrini is playing like a, you know, maybe not a bona fide superstar, but a bona fide top of the lineup guy. And that's given them a lot of punch.

Like this is a team that can absolutely do damage and that the Canucks are going to have to be sharp to beat. And so that's sort of what I'm excited to see tonight from Celebrini and this Sharks outfit it is uh it is for me the the comparison always comes back to like Sharks and versus Black Blackhawks Celebrini versus Bedard um all of that just because it's it's just a natural comparison to make I think and I am impressed at how quickly the Sharks have gone from, yeah, they're still not a good team,

but like you mentioned, they're a serious team, and they're a team that you kind of have to take as a legitimate, like, hey, this isn't an easy points night. Whereas the Blackhawks still kind of feel like they're in that zone of they're just not really a serious team yet. And when I look at them like when we're talking about like hey which team is going to get back to competitiveness quicker it does feel like the sharks are more primed to to get back to that position and it still might take a few years it

still might take a little bit for for celebrini will smith william Eklund, all these guys to fully mature and realize their potential in San Jose. But I do have more faith in the Sharks, you know, figuring this out in a timely manner than I do the Chicago Blackhawks. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, the Chicago Blackhawks are such a mess. It's actually quite sad. The Chicago thing upsets me,

to be totally honest with you. And yeah, I mean, I think Mike Greer's done a pretty good job. Like, he often gets paid. One thing I think he's done really well is he often gets paid to land players that also meaningfully upgrade his roster. And that's what it's about. Like, he's actually made this team made this team a more ethical tanking side, right? While

also netting futures to improve. And that's the trick, right? You do the damage, you get rid of as many bad contracts as they could, and they had so many from their years of going for it and trying to extend that window around that Thornton

Pavelski core yeah that you know they were really in a hopeless spot for a while here and now you know like they got you get paid to take cody cc you get paid to take georgiev right that that sort of move i think has really helped them at the margins and then i think they've done okay with draft picks and they brought in guys like Wenberg like one thing about this Sharks team you're gonna see like shift after shift they've got credible NHL level players up and down the lineup we noticed it when they gave the Canucks a pretty tough game in San Jose when these two teams met earlier on in the season and the Sharks have played a lot better than that since right like that's not uh I mean Macklin Celebrini only got back uh November 5th right like he'd only played one game before November 5th because of injury um they've been a much more imposing side across

the last seven weeks and and I think Canucks fans are going to notice that watching the game tonight so that's the shark side the Canucks as you mentioned it does feel uh it does feel like fans are kind of on edge for and look there's the the Miller-Pettersson reasons and we don't have to re-litigate all of that but it's also just like on the ice this team has been frustratingly inconsistent and we've talked about it a lot obviously over the past few weeks but petterson and miller they do play into it just based on their their on ice performances right not even just ignoring all the off ice stuff on ice petterson zero points in his last six games mill Miller, we didn't really talk about it, but there was that overtime or the power play goal from Josh Norris, short-handed goal, sorry. Yeah, the Canucks weren't ready for that at all.

It was a bad moment. Yeah, so the Ottawa game turns on a set play where Travis Hamanick jumps the lane and scores a quote-unquote winger win because he's in a winger spot in a five-on-four situation against Brock Besser. JT Miller, like Besser takes a little bit too long to recognize that he has to get back, but at least he gets back, you know, with some gumption, including skating across the ice to pick up miller's guy because miller never recognized the danger that the that like a quality stretch pass could spring a two-on-one yeah he never he

never got to the point of recognizing it um you know he took accountability for it yesterday so this isn't criticizing a guy for something he doesn't know it was a tough moment it happens but it's happened to miller a little bit too frequently right especially across criticizing a guy for something he doesn't know. It was a tough moment. It happens. But it's happened to Miller a little bit too frequently, right? Especially across, I mean, I would say all season. Not just since he returned. I don't know that his defensive game is two-way game, which was so impressive last year,

has been at that level, frankly, throughout this season. It's been back to previous prior versions of JT Miller where it's like, man, you're getting the hard matchups, but it's... I still think it's better than that. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think the team is better than that, and that helps. Well, for sure. But I used to think Miller, playing Miller at center

was like a straight-up mistake because I thought he could drive at wing and couldn't at center. I still think what we saw before his absence showed us that he can still drive just that as a center. And I don't think that was there like when he played a lot of center during the 2021 season. Right. Or during sort of the parts of the Boudreaux era where I was just like, I just don't think this guy's a center. I think that's a waste. I think you're I think you-line winger by making him like a fringe top-line center. I'd rather have the star winger than the good center, right?

And he's been – I still think he's been at a higher level than that. But, you know, fair. It's a fair point. We've seen some of that stuff creep back Into his game right I mean Yeah no no question So Look yeah the The

The problem Josh that I'm having In breaking down this team is The inconsistency stuff is To me The one that I can't get over. And yet, when you look at these three consecutive losses, I wouldn't say that a lack of focus and work rate

was at fault. No. I don't think any of these three games, you know, Utah was all over them in the first period. Ottawa was all over them in the first period. They had a great first period against Vegas. So, you know, some of the slow starts, not playing the right way off the hop,

like some of that has been there across their most recent spate of three games. But I wouldn't look at those as being efforts like we saw against like the Blues or the Bruins where they were just getting ventilated, you know, and sort of making all these sorts of mental because that inconsistency, the Jekyll and Hyde, at the end of the day, the Jekyll and Hyde effort level, that to me is something I'm just never going to be able to get over. You know what I mean? If that's who you are as a team, I think that's a real shame.

But at least I think we've seen enough of this team have some guts, play hard under Rick Talkett. Okay, they've been inconsistent in that area. I'm hopeful that we're not going to treat that or see that be a defining part of what this team is over the last 50 games. When I look at these three one goal losses against Utah Vegas and then Ottawa on Saturday, what stands out to me is how limited this team seems offensively without Quinn Hughes on the ice. What stands out to me is the fact that even with Quinn Hughes on the ice, they're not generating nearly as much as they were earlier in the year. I think the heroic effect is obviously part of that, but I also think the fact that the Canucks forwards aren't at their creative best.

Yeah, especially the high-end ones. Yeah, has been a massive issue. And so I'm looking at this Canucks team, and I have this belief still that we shouldn't overreact necessarily to where they're at right now right like they are hanging on to a wild card spot they're seventh in the west by point percentage just ahead of Colorado and Utah but like one loss one win either way swings that okay that's a that's a that's a somewhat precarious spot to be before Christmas, right?

This is not a team that's punched their ticket to the playoffs yet. And it's not even a team that has margin for error over the balance of the season. But it is still a long season, right? You're one win streak away from having that cushion, but you're also one losing streak away from being really in a scrap for your playoff lives. And on some level, I think this is like you know i i proposed the sleeping giant theory about a week ago and and i think that

theory still has grounds to it like i still think that this team once it gets once it gets healthy has the ability to you know be a 700 point percentage team down the stretch and you know maybe maybe they've fallen too far back of Vegas maybe Edmonton's just on their horse to such an extent that the Canucks aren't going to win the division for a second consecutive year but I think they can get in that mix if things break right for them and they get healthy uh just given the true talent level given some of the defensive stuff we've seen from this team, uh, that's been mostly maintained, but has sort of gone in and out, uh,

just based on that work rate and effort level. On the other hand, the last 18 games that this team has played, they've looked like one of the most hapless offensive teams in the league. And I find that really difficult to square with having guys like hughes and petterson for all of it and miller for six games of it anyway yeah um and and that i can't explain away like their most recent trend line is going down i think that's the the frustrating part for fans that are looking at this is it's like okay for a while you could be like well miller's out and

they're surviving and and they'll get through it and now it's like well her, for a while you could be like, well, Miller's out and they're surviving and they'll get through it. And now it's like, well, Hronik is out, but you should still be better than this offensively, right? When you have Quinn Hughes still, you have JT Miller, you have Elias Pettersson, and they're all healthy. They're all playing. But you're just not getting the offensive output that you would assume from those three combined.

And I mean, like Hughes, to his credit still is quinn hughes for the most part but it is it's it's more difficult for him than it was when philip heronic was healthy like you mentioned the heronic effect is being felt but i just don't it's it's so hard to like try to quantify what this team is because i look at this and i'm like is is this the real team or is the glass half full side where you mentioned the sleeping giant like maybe a month from now we're looking back on this and we're like oh that was a that was a wild blip on the radar and this this team is back to where it should be when i never want to overreact to a small stumble from a team with as much talent as the Canucks have. Right?

Like, because those takes often age silly in a silly way. They make you look silly. And, you know, long-time listeners of Canucks Talk will know, like, I abhor nothing more than being wrong. I don't have enough to, like, kill this team or declare that their ceiling's limited or, you know, that they can't get it done or whatever because I don't feel like we have a handle on who they are. What I will say, though, is we've had...

The one thing I was thinking about is through 33 games for the Canucks, the amount of games that they've clearly been the better team one, established their dominance over another team. I feel like we can maybe count on one hand, maybe two for stretching. So Florida? Florida, Colorado. Florida, Colorado for sure.

Yeah. And then, yeah, you're right. It's been a while. Yeah, and that's kind of the thing is like, well, at a certain point, the- Two wins against the Blackhawks, are we going to count those? Probably not. And the Flames game in early November? yeah and that's that's kind of the thing is like well at a certain point the two gate two wins against the blackhawks are we going to count those probably not and the flames game in early november yeah or mid-november and that's the thing is like well now we're stretching oh the game in

anaheim the game in anaheim where they honestly looked like they were on a power play the whole game yeah but i mean those you know so six and you're right a couple of them might be stretched like that and you might pull your hand. And so the point of that is it's like, well, okay, so they have these limited games where they've shown this ultimate upside, but they have a wealth of games where they've gone in with relative expectations,

and it's been a disappointing outcome, especially on home ice. And so at a certain point, the sample size is just like well now it's now it's really leading in another direction but again we're going into these games with expectations because this team should be better and at a certain point it's like i i just don't know if the the results are matching the expectations and when do we adjust our expectations accordingly well i think we need to see i mean i think we need to see another third look if they're if they're still playing this infrequently in the offensive end of the rink if they're still generating this few this few a

number of shots in like five weeks then i'm i'm probably going to be on the side of they shouldn't buy at the deadline and they need to be really careful here. And yet the weight of having Quinn Hughes, who by the way is now, it has elevated to plus one 25 for the Norris. So he's very much back in the mix for the Norris. According to the betting markets, he also went from a hundred to one to win the heart to 35-1 to win the heart over the last 10 days.

And by the way, the heart trophy case, because Canucks fans firmly believe, and I agree with them, that Quinn Hughes should be getting heart trophy buzz. Do you want to know the biggest issue that Hughes' heart trophy case has at the moment? What's that? The team's not doing very well.

Yeah. Like, you're very unlikely to win the Hart Trophy with a team that's limping into the playoffs as a wildcard after winning the division last year. You know what I mean? Like, part of it is expectations. You can win the Hart Trophy as a wildcard team if you put a team that no one expected

to make the playoffs on your back with an epic performance like Corey Perry in 2011 when he stole it from Daniel Sedan and definitely shouldn't have won it, or Taylor Hall in 2018, 2017. Can't remember the exact year. But you can't make it as the best player on a disappointing team, even if you're the only reason why that team is.

Yeah. Which has been the case through 38 games and sort of is, or 38? I don't know. Like Vladdy Guerrero in 2021? is or 38. I don't know. Like Vladdy Guerrero in 2021. Right. Yeah. It's not enough.

Like right now, this team is putting too much on Quinn Hughes's plate. And what's funny is Quinn Hughes is actually able to pull it off most nights. But it's still too much to ask if you want to be a championship caliber team, which, you know, certainly I think that's the one thing we can say right now is like it's been a long time since we looked at this Canucks team as having a championship caliber team, which, you know, certainly I think that's the one thing we can say right now is like, it's been a long time since we looked at this Canucks team as having a championship caliber season, given how they've performed. Definitely. We will talk more about this on the other side. Satyar Shah, he works here. He will join us next. It is Halford and Brough, Josh Elliott, Wolf Thomas, Dran Sportsnet 650.