Halford & Brough in the Morning - No Hockey But At Least It's Euro Club Wednesday

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), they talk the potential future of the Toronto Blue Jays and if a rebuild may be what's needed at this point (9:00), plus they look ahead to the Stanley Cup Final with Sportsnet NHL analyst Jeff Marek (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

you're listening to halford and brough right let's say you're making uh uh did you see that jerk? Bo Bichette and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. If they get traded, then that is an admission of failure. You can honestly Buffalo Bills how important

Super Bowl experience is. It is up! It is! No good! No one missed! Good morning Vancouver 601 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. It is Halford. It is Brough. It is Sportsnet 650.

We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studios in beautiful Fairview Slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. A-Dawg, good morning. Good morning. And Laddie, both welcome back and good morning to you. Thank you. Good morning to you, too.

Halford and Brough in the morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda. Vancouver Honda is Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. We are in Hour 1 of the program. Hour 1 is brought to you by Northstar Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. Northstar Metal Recycling.

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That's what you're waiting for. So Laddie is back from vacation. Pop quiz. Do you know where Laddie went for vacation? I don't know. Wrong. Pop quiz, hotshot. Korea to watch a baseball. He did not.

That's nice. I'm going to stay longer than four days, though, I think. It was a shorter trip. He went to Whistler. So Laddie's back from vacation. You're leaving tomorrow on a mini vacation of your own. You're going golfing. I'm going golfing.

Yes, golf trip. Location not to be disclosed because he doesn't want any of the paparazzos showing up. Actually, no, we're going to Gamble Sands. Don't say it out loud. In Washington, Gamble Sands is kind of a getaway. It's a getaway from it all. It's going to be a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to playing the course.

It's called Gamble Sands? Gamble Sands. That's kind of a cool name for a golf course, actually. They're like, gambling is encouraged here. It's a good name for a baby, too. Is that Otani? Oh. Gamble Sands.

One. Good one. Two. Baby Gamble Sands. A baby named Gamble? Yeah. I like it. You know what?

I'm willing to workshop it. You know what? I had this golf trip planned for a while. Okay. The Gamble Sands. So when the Canucks lost game seven to the Oilers, I was like, damn it. But, you know, at least I can go on this golf trip. Well.

He did one of those. Well. Yeah. I have to go to Gamble Sands now. Okay. We have a big show ahead for Gester today because it is slow, S-L-O-W, in the world of sports right now. 6.30. Jeff Merrick is going to join us. Not only is Jeff Merrick going to join us, but I have been told, my insider dog information,

that the new Jeff Merrick intro song, the jingle, the music, is going to be released, dropped, if you will, today. Yeah, well, it was supposed to be last week, but it'll be today now. Yes. It got delayed by a week. That's fine. Sometimes that happens in the recording industry. It just adds to the anticipation for people, you know?

Just got to build up the hype. I lined up outside of A&B Sound yesterday. Oh, nice. It's back. Yeah. 7 o'clock, Ian Mendez from The Athletic in Ottawa is going to join us. We'll get an update on the coaching staff, which is

full of former Canucks coaches in Ottawa. We'll also get an update from NHL Utah. Quick aside, how are we going to reference Utah? Are we going to call it the Utah Hockey Club? Are we going to say the team formerly known as the Arizona Coyotes? What are we going to do? Utah Hockey?

That's just Utah Hockey. Utah Hockey. I don't know. The Utah Hockey team. Utah Hockey. All their graphics say Utah Hockey. That's why we're workshopping this, because all these are terrible right now. Utah Hockey.

Utah Hockey. That's what all the posters say. Utah Hockey? Yeah, that's what they're... So we're going all these are terrible right now. Utah Hockey. Utah Hockey. That's what all the posters say. Utah Hockey? Yeah, it's what they're... So we're going to call it Utah Hockey. Utah Hockey. But they're going to... Hold on.

They're going to have a name this year, right? But I think they're going to be called the Utah Hockey Club. Yeah, no, their name is the next season, I think. Are they doing it like the Women's League? Yeah, they're just going to be called Utah this year. I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we need something with a casual reference. Anyway, Ian Mendez on an update. What's coming out of Utah?

They love their hockey in Utah, home of Utahki. Big ticket sales going on there. He's writing about it for The Athletic, so he'll join us at 7 o'clock. 730, first-time guest on the program, Jordan McPherson from the Miami Herald. He covers the Florida Panthers for the Miami Herald. I figure it's about time that we actually talked about, you know, the other team in the Stanley Cup final, the Florida Panthers. We spent a lot of time talking about

the New York Rangers being out. Obviously, a lot of time about the Edmonton Oilers. And man, oh, alive. Speaking of the Edmonton Oilers, did the Luke Gazdik conversation really carry on online yesterday? I thought we, I mean, you missed it yesterday, Laddie. We had to address what had happened.

We did so for the first three hours of the morning. We spent intermittent time talking about it, and then everybody else decided to pile on in the aftermath. We won't talk to Jordan McPherson from the Miami Herald about that. We'll talk to him about the Florida Panthers, who are now just three days away from starting the Stanley Cup final against the Edmonton Oilers. 8 o'clock, it's Murph.

Murph went golfing with Nikita Zdorov and JT Miller, so we're like, please come on the show and talk about it. He will. That'll be at 8 o'clock. No insider information, though. He made it abundantly clear. I was going to say, well, he'll talk, but about what, I'm not sure. He doesn't want to betray any confidences.

And to be fair, I understand. It's hard to get, you know, you want to go golfing with the fellas, and some things stay on the course. Is he allowed to? Gamble Sands. You guys aren't going to bring all your stories back with you. Yeah, what happens in Gamble Sands stays in Gamble Sands. Some things will die. And then we got drunk. It stays in Gamble Sands. You guys aren't going to bring all your stories back with you. Yeah, what happens in Gamble Sands stays in Gamble Sands.

Some things will die. And then we got drunk. It stays in Gamble Sands. So Murph's going to join us. Murph was adamant he would not release any of the details of the Zdorov contract. Right. So first question is obviously going to be, what does the Zdorov contract look like? And what did you guys talk about? Like how many years?

What's the numbers? It's a ballpark here. We're also giving away another pair of tickets to see Snoop, Snoopaloop, also known as Snoop Dogg, June 25th at Rogers Arena. But that's not all. DJ Quick and Warren G. Yes, the regulator himself. They'll all be coming to Rogers Arena on June 25th.

If you want a pair of tickets, send what we learned in. What did you learn over the last 24 hours in sports? Hashtag it, WWL. Put a ticket emoji into your text. Dunbar Lumber text line is 650-650. Working in reverse. Guest list, 8 o'clock, Dan Murphy. 7.30, Jordan McPherson.

7 o'clock, Ian Mendez. 6.30, Jeff Merrick with a new intro song. That's what's happening on the program today. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was...

We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened? What Happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance. Making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources, and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. I give a lot of credit to my fellow black-shirted co-host over here, Jason Brough, because in a very slow sports week,

on a very slow sports day, you managed to churn out a lot of good, compelling, wait for it, Major League Baseball content as it pertains to the Toronto Blue Jays. So if you missed the Blue Jays last night, it wasn't just that they lost 10-1 to their AL East rivals, the Baltimore Orioles. It was at the previous game they had lost 7-2 to their AL East rivals, the Baltimore Orioles.

Bring back the White Sox. Now, where are the Pirates? Now, the subtext here is that the Orioles are this good, young, exciting team. They got Ryan Mountcastle. They got Grayson Rodriguez. They're exciting. They win a lot of ball games. They're one of the hottest teams in baseball right now.

And the Jays, after winning a few games in a row against inferior competition, finally we're going to get a good test. They have failed it miserably. And I mean miserably being outscored 17-3 over two games. And minus 45 run differential now for these guys. The Cleavers are out for your Toronto Blue Jays. Everyone's talking about what's going to happen to this core, what's going to happen to this manager.

How much longer can they continue to underachieve? And Jason, you put some notes together. Well, I am glad Laddie's back because Laddie is going to be my designated Blue Jays fan. And I'm basically going to interview him because I am wondering when everyone is going to accept that this is a bad baseball team that isn't going to make the postseason. As long as the regular season is, and I know the Jays have lots of games left, are they even going to come close to making the postseason? Because they can't hit, and now their reliever depth is being tested

and maybe not passing the test. I realize the trade deadline isn't until July 1st. So maybe, I don't know, maybe they can fire the manager and hope for a bump before then. But I'm honestly asking this as an outsider who doesn't follow the team on a daily basis. I'm going to talk to Laddie and I'd love to hear into the Dunbar Lumber text line, 650, 650 from anyone who watches the Jays every time they can and, and, and follows them on a daily basis. Because how many fans really want to continue building around Vladdy and

Bo? I'm not blaming Vladdy and Bo necessarily for all of this, but I'm just wondering, do you still feel like building around those two? And I remember a few years ago when everyone was so excited about the Vladdy and Bo era, is that still a path to a championship? Do Vladdy and Bo even want to sign long-term at this point?

And if the best plan is to move on from the Vladdy and Bo era, I'm not saying it is, I'm saying if it is, who should comprise the front office that does that build? And frankly, if the best plan isn't to move on from the Vladdy and Bo era, who should comprise the front office. Basically, what has the Blue Jays front office done to deserve the trust of the fans? Again, I'm asking this as an outsider, just because I remember a few years ago, hearing about how promising this era was. The Blue Jays were this young, talented team

that just needed to come together as a team, yada, yada, yada. There's been three playoff appearances, which sounds good in theory, except they won none of the games. They're 0-6 in the playoffs, and now we've got this season. Laddie, any thoughts or comments on this? I know you're a Blue Jays fan. I know you're a loyal Blue Jays fan, but where are you right now with this team?

Well, I think I'm in the same place that a lot of fans are in, which is there's not a lot of faith in this management group. I think the blame isn't falling on the shoulders of Bo and Vladdy per se as the players. I think when you look at them from an outsider of Bo and Vladdy per se as the players. I think when you look at them from an outsider's perspective, they're 25 and 26 years old. Still a lot of runway left. There's still a lot of time to figure things out. I still think the fans want the team to build around those guys.

And I still think it's possible to build around those guys. But this past offseason changed a lot of people's minds, I think, about this management group because they had a lot of high hopes. It was a team that seemingly looked like they were on the rise. They were building towards something. And then they had the worst offseason that you could basically imagine where they missed out on every candidate that they were looking to add to the roster. And then the scramble pieces that they were able to get just have not worked any way whatsoever. So it doesn't really seem like they have much of a plan now after whatever their plan was, didn't work out in the off season.

And it just feels like a rudderless ship that is moving to nowhere. Is it time to bring in some new leaders, some new advisors, new manager, new, new president, because I want to play this Jeff Passan audio from the Blair and Barker show. And, um, I'll let it speak for itself. We'll just play it. But basically, the idea is,

if the Jays do trade Vladdy and or Bo, it's kind of an admission that this whole thing, this whole thing that we've been doing for a few years, it's a failure. You can overhaul the future of your franchise in doing so. It would just be so painful. That's the part of this that we all have to reconcile as it's being discussed. The Toronto Blue Jays were supposed to find their early 1990s self with Bobachette and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. And if they haven't, if they don't, if they get traded, then that is an admission of failure to build around them. And that admission of failure is a very difficult thing in the short term to cop. It's a really hard thing to acknowledge. So I think the organization should give these players and John Schneider and everyone involved

the next six weeks to try and write things. And if not, then it's their duty, I think, to give strong consideration to moving them and hitting the restart button. Yeah. The question is, is, is there too much like emotional attachment from Shapiro and Atkins for the Vladdy and Bo era for them to make the right decision on this. Right. It's kind of like, well, we've been trying and trying to turn this team into a championship contender with those two. If we decide to trade those guys, there's a real risk that we're getting fired.

You know what I mean? It's an admission. It's an admission that you've failed. Yeah. And especially if Vladdy and Bo go to the organization and essentially say, like, we don't want to be here anymore, then you're gone. So I don't know how this plays out, but I do know that these next six weeks are going to be pretty interesting

because if the Blue Jays don't turn it around, and I mean turn it around in a major way, then this trade deadline, there's going to be a lot of people clamoring for big time change. Yeah, I think a lot can be said about the approach that the Jays have taken at the plate this year. You talk about the run differential, minus 45.

The advantage the Jays used to have was the hitting. They used to hit bombs all the time. That's what kept their run differential up. But they've just been hitting the ball on the ground so much the last two years, it feels like that. It's like, they're messing with these hitters heads. I think Vladdy is the prime example. What does he have?

Six home runs this year, hitting the ball hard. Like he always does the exit velocities there, but he's just not hitting it in the air. There's none of nobody on this team hits the ball in the air and it's the most infuriating team. It makes them the most frustrating team to watch. And yeah,

I really, there's not much else you can be said about this. They have so many problems hitting. Yeah. So it's funny. The knock on the Jays now is that you don't need to show up early for games because they don't do anything in the first inning. They're going to set a record.

They set the record. 26 consecutive games that they have failed to score a run in the first inning. That's crazy, man. It's just batting practice and warm-up. It's like, you know what? Those are your three best hitters in the lineup first inning. It's almost like the first. That's crazy, man. It's just batting practice and warmup. It's like, you know what? Those are your three best hitters in the lineup, supposedly. Let's just see some pitches. You know, we'll get things going, get the juices flowing.

I want to read this text. Morning, guys. In regards to the Blue Jays, I'm not going to say that the removal of the home run jacket a couple of years ago is the reason that they're struggling, but I'm not going to say it isn't either. They had a really young, fun clubhouse, and for whatever reason, someone decided to mess with it. I know it isn't the actual reason, but it probably didn't help. The front office there deserves all the grief they're given.

They never did find that strong left-handed bat, and we have just watched two years now a Bo and Vlad and the rest of that core decline. I really hope they can turn it around. I just don't see it happening with the current group. Well, the narrative is that they were this young, exciting team that needed to grow up. Too many mistakes.

Yeah. Thoughtless mistakes because they're having too much fun. And they weren't, you would hear, they're not a serious baseball team, right? So they take away the home run jacket. Well, they got rid of it. They turn into, like the problem with the Jays right now, above all, they're boring if you're a fan.

If you're not hitting, that's boring as a fan. I do think that they made a real conscious decision to bring in, quote-unquote, professionals, the likes of, like, Kiermaier, Belt, Springer, go down the list. They jettisoned guys like Gurriel Jr. and Teoscar Hernandez. And you can infer whatever you want from that, but there was a distinct change in approach in how they were going to go about their business.

Well, they said it. We were going to save runs rather than hit runs. We want our defense to be the difference. But the biggest issue with them now is hanging over this team is, I mean, let's be frank, losers in the postseason, like quite literally can't win a game under the team that Atkins has put together. They are winless in the postseason. And now the runoff, I feel like it's residual scarring almost,

that this team went through so much. Like was there a more chaotic end of season and off season than what the Jays have gone through the last couple of years? They're almost stuck in their own shadow, in the shadow of misery and playoff failure over the last couple of years. Because there's been managerial decisions. There's been big players coming up small in the biggest moments. You name it, they've done it. They've done it all.

They've captured every single way that you can be bad at baseball in the postseason. And it's funny because if this was the Canucks, we would have been litigating and relitigating this management group, their decisions on a daily basis. But because we kind of put it on the back burner, we're doing it all now on June 5th, and there's this litany of things. One of the things that I – Ross Atkins, to me, since he's taken the job, has always been been like and i know this doesn't mean anything but like wildly unlikable like not

personable not charismatic not he didn't it felt like everything was explaining that they were the smartest guys in the room exactly to everybody else what did they do in cleveland exactly nothing and i mean you look at what the guy that preceded him, Alex Anthopoulos. What has he done? Yeah, I mean, he's gone on to have really good success, right? In a different manner in terms of how he manages his teams. The other thing, too, is that, like, there haven't been a ton of general managers in the history of the Toronto Blue Jays, right? Atkins is, like, the sixth and seventh, if you count those, like, five days that Tony LaCava when he was in

there um but so it's like it's a prominent gig and you know and to be the head of a baseball team they give you a lot of runway with it because you got to be patient and you got to let your plan come to fruition but you're talking nine years on the job and now people are openly wondering like Jason if you've seen the best of the Bichette-Vladiy era and if the best of the Bichette-Vladiy era was bad, embarrassing losses in the playoffs. On the bright side, they have not had anyone banned for life for betting on baseball.

Ah, not yet. This one text speaks to me. We had problems hitting with the kids' team and we started giving them some juice and bubble gum before the game and it worked. The Jays tried sugar. Funny story. Bribing works with kids sports for sure my buddy my buddy is coaching well they're paid millions of dollars i hope that's bribe enough my buddy is coaching uh rookie little league that's seven and eight year olds right now so they had a playoff

game on the weekend and one of the parents as a treat for the kids bought everyone the full size bottle of gatorade so he said two things he's like everyone's peeing the whole game he's like one they're all gonna have to urinate two he's like with the sugar high comes the sugar crash and so he watched his team race out to a four nothing lead and he's like and then everyone's peeing and having temper tensions basically they run to the bathroom they come back and they'd be asleep on the bench it was like a group of 90 year old men anyway so he's sitting there and they barely hung on to win 5-4 and now there's a new rule no gatorades during the game they can be celebratory gatorades afterwards who is this, was, I'll ask Laddy this, was Tukupita Marcano a prominent baseball player?

Tukupita Marcano. No. I'll just put it that way. No, he was not. Okay. He was a fringe MLB player. I still don't understand how someone can be so reckless with their career.

Even if he had a gambling problem, gamble on something else, not baseball. By all accounts, this was a FanDuel account in his own name. And FanDuel is a partner of Major League Baseball and Major League Baseball went to their betting partners and said, do an audit,

you know, just make sure that there's nothing going on there. And the FanDuel account found betting activity from accounts connected to multiple major and minor league players. This was in March and that prompted the investigation. So I guess four other minor league players were

caught up in this. But Marcano's was, they found 400 baseball-related bets. Like he was betting great regularity. And bets on his team too, even though he was, I think, hurt. He tore his ACL. And what I see is he had a 4% success rate.

Yeah, he was very good at it. That's hard to do. He was just betting parlays too. That even makes it worse. You get caught for betting and you also suck at it. I don't even think sucking at it adds to the embarrassment.

What are you doing? There's got to be a high level of... Your name is on the account. There's got to be a high level of ignorance about what he thought he was actually doing and if he thought it was... There's no way he actively did this knowing it was with the severity of a lifetime ban from baseball i refuse to believe i need to know i need to see a statement from him i need to see an interview from him because i just i can't i cannot believe

that someone would be so reckless he had a career he had and how do you not know he had a full that's basically at this point, that's been like, wait, is smoking bad for you? I'm sure teams have gone to the players, too, and explained this all to them at some point. Minor league players, major league players. It's posted in every clubhouse. No one reads those.

Maybe he thought they'd think it would be somebody else with his name. Well, no. Yeah, Tukapita? No. Another Tukapita. I don't think so. He had a full-fledged mlb career of the guys who got dinged yesterday for um and most of the minor leaguers got like a year-long suspension some

of them were a little bit longer uh marcano played in i think it was like 150 mlb games the only reason he wasn't on an active roster right now is because he tore his acl like he had a career what was now it's gone what was the senator's guy's name that got, uh, Shane Pinto. So Shane Pinto at least had the excuse that it was his account. Um, but the evidence proved like the geolocation evidence proved that it was not him making those bets. He had given his buddy his password or something

like that. And his buddy was making all these bets on hockey. Um, well, I'll tell you, you know, like, I just, I don't know. I'm just kind of blown away at either the naivety or the arrogance to do something like that. I think it's way more multifaceted than that because what's happening right now is two things.

One, it is everywhere. I don't know if you've been following European football, but there are gambling scandals in almost every major domestic league right now. But gambling's been around forever in those leagues as sponsors. Is it just because it's on your phone now? Well, okay. I think that there's a variety of different reasons that it's happening. And you've mentioned it a couple other times. I do wonder if some of these guys, especially lower tier guys that aren't as easily recognizable or being leaned on or have gotten

affiliated or associated with the wrong people but it is happening so there's two things one it's happening everywhere and two there are no signs no signs whatsoever that it's either slowing down or professional athletes are learning from the punishments of other professional athletes it just doesn't seem like it's resonating with anybody. You see these serious bands. Tucapita, didn't you see what happened to the Ottawa Senators guy? I don't follow baseball. Did you see what happened to Jonte Porter?

Yeah. I mean, these are happening on a monthly basis. And in the UK and the rest of Europe, because the UK has had a variety of these right now in the Premier League, it's happening with high frequency to the point where you're either wondering, can you be this ignorant? Is there something more at play? Is there an external factor that we are unaware of that is driving this?

Because it would be seemingly obvious to say, whoa, that guy got the death sentence for his career. I should knock off whatever I'm doing. Yeah. Because, you know, if I continue to do this, I won't have the funds and the means necessary to even wager. Like the most basic level thinking. It's just crazy. We'll talk a little bit more about this story. And I want to talk a little bit about the Otani resolution I can you I can say I

suppose his interpreter has pleaded guilty and I read the complaint last night and I have a few thoughts from that so maybe I'll do that as my what we learned later on the show but Jeff Merrick is going to join us next on the Halford and Ruff show on Sportsnet 650 it's Canuck Central with Dan Riccio and Satyar Shah your destination for show but Jeff Merrick is going to join us next on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650.

It's Canucks Central with Dan Riccio and Satyar Shah your destination for everything Canucks exclusive interviews inside info and even the postgame show listen 4 to 6 p.m weekdays and on demand through your favorite podcast app. It is now time for Jeff Merrick Jeff Merrick is joining the show Get ready for Jeff Merrick Now it is time for Jeff Merrick live from Dunha It is Jeff Merrick on the half of the rough shore. 632. What was that?

What was that? What was the inspo for that one? We're going experimentally here, folks. It's like sprockets. Yeah, that was sprockets. That was like a me reference. I wanted to make something that the more times you hear it, the more annoying and equally funny it gets. I think you succeeded then.

And it fits in with our Euro Club Wednesday theme. That's true. That's how it all started. What was the bit from sprockets? He had a pet monkey, right? I forget. Yeah, would you like to see my monkey? Well, it's on Jeff now to show up with a monkey next week, I suppose. Jeff you like to see my monkey? Would you like to see my monkey? Well, it's on Jeff now to brush over the monkey next week, I suppose. Jeff Baric, host of the Jeff Baric Show and the 32 Thoughts Podcast, is going to join us in just a moment here on the Halford & Brough Show

on Sportsnet 650. I'll let that intro music sink in for Jeff while I attend to some business. Hour one of this program is brought to you by Northstar Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. Northstar Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. Northstar Metal Recycling. They recycle. You get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver.

This whole show, all of it, the kooky theme songs, the hosts, the dogs, all of it is brought to you by Pacific Honda, North Vancouver's premier destination for Honda vehicle sales and service. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for, sales, financing, service, or parts. To the phone lines we go. Jeff Merrick joins us now on the Halford & Breff Show

on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Jeff. How are you? That was Sprockets meets Chase scene from Beverly Hills Cop. Yes. Did that not have an Eddie Murphy Murphy Beverly Hills Cop banana in the tailpipe vibe about it? I loved it. What? Did it not have a Beverly Hills Cop vibe about it too?

I don't know about Beverly Hills Cop. What was the name of the guy that did all the synth music that you've referenced? Faltmeyer? Falkmeyer? Faltmeyer? Faltmeyer. Faltmeyer. Yeah, but yeah. Yeah, okay. Right. Yeah, I get that. I get that part. Okay. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, right Yeah, I get that, I get that part That wasn't bad right there That was not bad right there

There's a reason they pay us the big bucks, folks You just heard it Good, wow, grateful, that was awesome Just made my day Jeff, I want to talk a little bit more about Marty Natchez. Because this guy has been discussed at length in Vancouver and I'm sure in a few other markets around the league. Why has he not fully blossomed in Carolina?

I think that's a couple of things. I think that there's a certain level of frustration that Rod Brindamore has about Martin Natchez, which is not kind of unlike the same frustration he used to have about Sebastian Ajo. We tend to forget this. The initial relationship between these two,ho and and rod brindamore wasn't exactly wasn't exactly great like i don't think the brindamore really liked the way that aho played uh one-way game etc uh was unbudging and in how he played and i think

martin h is is kind of similar here now it all worked all worked out with Ajo and Rod Brindamore, and he's gone on to be one of the best players in the Carolina Hurricanes, one of the best players in the league, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I do think there is a level of frustration with how Ajo plays away from the puck. There's no denying the offensive skill. And I'll tell you, one of the best things about Martin Natchez is, much like in Edmonton when it's three-on-three

time, here we go overtime, and Edmonton throws right-sided limit David over the boards, and you say, okay, well, this is automatic. You can pretty much say the same thing about Aho and Natchez. Natchez in overtime with all that room to create is dynamic. He's phenomenal um it's

the five on five and the defensive responsibility but a lot of people will come back to well hold on a second here you know the hardest thing and the most expensive thing in the NHL are goals and that's one of the things that Martin Natchez can can can help produce um I think. I also think that there's a level of frustration that Natchez has, which is, you know, I think in his mind, he deserves to be on power play one on a consistent basis. And when that's not there, sometimes it's reflected in the play. So it's been a tough relationship between the two sides here. There's no denying the offensive skill at all,

but I think everything away from the puck can kind of give you a fit. How about that? So knowing that or hearing that, my first question would be, how do you think you'd get along with Rick Tockett? Because there was a guy named Andre Kuzmenko here that didn't last long under Rick Tockett. Yeah, no, there certainly is that. But don't forget, too, to put it bluntly, the arrogance of every organization is this. Get him in our program and we can fix him.

Right? Like, how many times have you made... What are teams in love with? The Reclamation Project. Oh, we'll get him at a bargain basement price or something lower than market value based on his failings, and we'll fix him when we get him into our system. If you're Rick Tockett, as much as you might look at him and say, yeah, there's some things you love about his game

and some things you don't, part of you as a coach is like, yeah, let me drive that. Give me the keys to that because I can help unlock the potential for Martin Natchez and develop him into a full player. So I think the most high-end coaches look at players like that and say, yeah, you know what? I'm not going to turn him down based on his failing. I'm a coach that can help players with their failings.

So kind of a couple of minds here about Natchez in Vancouver. I know on the surface you look at it and say, eh, that could be a disaster. But don't forget, like, Hockett's done great work with a lot of players here. And I think part of the arrogance, and I say that as a compliment, part of the arrogance of being a good coach is saying, I can fix anybody. Yeah, and obviously the reason that the Natchez name has been out there so much is the most recent revelation, courtesy of Frank Cervalli, where he suggested that the trade might happen before the start of the Stanley Cup Final,

which we are waiting and waiting and waiting for as it doesn't get underway until Saturday. I know that the scheduling isn't great, Jeff, but it does allow us to build up to the Edmonton, Florida Stanley Cup final. Let's just ask the most obvious question to you. How excited are you for this matchup, this stylistic matchup between the Oilers and the Panthers? Well, this is great because there's a whole bunch of sidebars attached to it as well, right?

And, you know, in a lot of ways, let me know if you think this one is strained. But I was thinking about both these teams, and when you have a stretch like this, you say to yourself, okay, so now let's have a look back and have a look at how these two teams came into the NHL, who's responsible for them coming into the NHL. And for me, all roads with both of them lead to Wayne Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky, Edmonton Oilers, WHA, Wayne Gretzky, of course,

the centerpiece there, never subject to an NHL draft. That's a discussion for another time. But a key piece of the Edmonton Oilers, for lack of a better term, merger between the four teams of the WHA and the NHL back in 1980. And then the Florida Panthers were a byproduct of Southern expansion, which was brought about by the Wayne Gretzky trade and popping hockey in Los Angeles. And all of a sudden there's Anaheim with Michael Eisner of Disney. And there's Wayne Huizenga in Florida who owned Blockbuster.

And the idea was that Eisner was going to make the movies and Huizenga was going to distribute the movies and there were going to be hockey movies and this was the opening of the door with the Mighty Ducks etc etc etc I mean it didn't ultimately work out but sort of all roads for both of these teams still kind of go through Wayne Gretzky here and Gretzky is responsible for in a lot of ways on that Gretzky trade for both these teams being in the NHL. There's also the delicious sidebar of a little bit of a taste of the old Battle of Alberta with Sam Bennett and Matthew Kachuk.

And that's why I really crossed my fingers and hope that Evander Kane is healthy in this one, because we can all think of the fights and the wars that Sam Bennett would have with Evander Kane, and all the battles that Matthew Kachuk would have with Evander Kane and everybody else on that Edmonton Oilers team. So to say nothing of having the best player in the game

and Conor McDavid involved in the series. There's a whole lot of levels here for what makes this one intriguing. And even to get ahead of ourselves here, we're already having the debate of who does each captain pass the Stanley Cup to? I don't know if you guys knew that before the beginning of the Stanley Cup final, but it's always interesting to think about,

okay, if Florida wins, who does Barkov hand this off to? And if Edmonton wins, who does McDavid hand it off to? Who does McDavid hand it off to? Nuge? I would think Ryan Nuge. Yeah, he's the longest-tenured Oiler, right? Edmonton wins. Who does McDavid hand it off to? Who does McDavid hand it off to? Nugent? I would think Ryan Nugent. Yeah, he's the longest-tenured Oiler, right?

Yeah. I would think Ryan Nugent. Because a lot of people say, oh, well, Leon Dreisaitl. I would have to say probably Ryan Nugent. Have you thought about the Florida Panthers one? Either Kyle Ocposo or Aaron Ekblad. Yeah, maybe Ocposo. He's been around for forever.

Yeah, but he hasn't been with the Panthers for that long. No. But, yeah, it would have to be those two guys. That's an interesting one. Those are good sidebars. The one that I was thinking of, and it kind of was spawned from the Battle of Alberta thing, is I'm very much hoping that this will be the spiciest Stanley Cup final

that we've had in years. I mean, maybe hearkening all the way back to Bruins-Canucks in 2011 because of the pieces that are involved. I know Matthew Kachuk and Sam Bennett were there last year, but they were so banged up and so beat up that it was almost like by the time they got to the final, they were just completely out of steam. They're going to have a week-long break

to get their energy ramped back up for this one. The other part of the subtext here is that Edmonton just got through a series, all due respect to the Dallas Stars, who I thought played their asses off, but it was not a nasty series by any stretch of the imagination. I was actually shocked at times at the lack of physicality, especially since I think in the second round, the Canucks did show a bit of a blueprint that if you are able to get into the Oilers' kitchen,

you can do some damage. It just never seemed like that happened against Dallas. Yeah, that's a great point. I'll throw another one out at you because you mentioned 2011 there a second ago. So I was having a conversation with someone Friday after the radio show, driving back home. This is someone who's been around hockey forever, going back three lockouts, actually, who said to me that he was getting strong Boston Bruin 2011 vibes

from the Florida Panthers. Not sort of player to player, but by way of roster composition and also by style of play. So I had Bill Zito on the show a couple of days ago, and I asked him that. And Bill, as you guys know, formerly in a previous life, was an NHL agent and represented Tim Thomas. So I figured, okay, A, he knows this Florida Panthers team, and B, he knows the 2011 Boston Bruins quite well,

and so he'll be somewhat of an authority to speak to it. And he said, well, I never really considered it. And I said, well, let me sell you a little bit on it. So you have Barkoff in the Bergeron place uh there is no Zdeno Chara because they're outside of Larry Robinson with the Montreal Canadiens in the 70s has never been a Zdeno Chara uh in in the NHL um but you look at someone like you know Matthew Kachuk playing the role of Brad Marchand you look at Sam Bennett playing a combination sort of Nathan Horton and Milan

Lucic to a certain extent to say nothing about how they play and how they've been put together and how they fight for every single inch of the ice. And Zito kind of warmed to the idea and said, like, look, I've never really thought about it, but I think you might have a point here. Now, no one's going to compare, you know, Sergey Bobrovsky, who's like a pretty chilled-out goaltender. He's a really mellow, laid-back guy with Tim Thomas, who is the exact opposite of that, as everyone in Vancouver knows, going back to 2011. But let me ask you guys this.

I think that the vibes are there. Are you getting 2011 Boston Bruin vibes from this Florida Panthers team? You know what's funny, though, Jeff, is that the 2011 Stanley Cup final, no one predicted that it was going to be like it was. It just kind of happened, right? And there was some biting, and then it just kicked off, right? And so I don't know. I suppose maybe – You're not buying it well i think stylistically stylistically but i think there's a lot of teams that have played stylistically like the bruins

like they're the heavy style i mean the st louis blues out bruins the bruins in their stanley cup final so um i don't know we'll see it it has to i have to see it play out, though. But don't forget, the Blues also had a Bergeron-type player in Ryan O'Reilly as well. And I think that's where this whole thing starts with the Florida Panthers. I mean, how many times have you heard me make the bad joke that Barkoff is finished for Bergeron? Yeah. But it's true, right? Well, that's because most Stanley Cup champs have a Selkie Trophy type of guy.

I mean, that's because most Stanley Cup champs have a Selkie Trophy type of guy. I mean, that's where I wonder. I mean, that's the most interesting part of the matchup for me, really, is Barkov and Forsling versus McDavid and Dreisaitl. And is offense going to win or is defense going to win? Obviously, there are other concerns like who's going to be the better goaltender and all the complementary players. But for me, that's the matchup. Yeah, and that's why I wonder as well, as I mentioned earlier, if Evander Kane isn't healthy, does that give the Florida Panthers

essentially a free pass to run around. And give Sam Bennett a chance to beat Sam Bennett and ditto for Matthew Kachuk. To try to run the Oilers out of the building. I mean, as you mentioned it, you're right. Like Vancouver, like Vancouver threw everything at the Oilers. Right? Physicality, all of it. Like get inside and pound them, right? What's the old boxing term?

Water in the basement? Get inside and rip to the body, water in the basement, water in the basement. That's what Vancouver was trying to do to Edmonton. And I wonder if the Florida Panthers can do the proverbial water in the basement with the Edmonton all this year. What happened to Sam Bennett once he went to Florida? Why did we not see this Sam Bennett in Calgary? And was Calgary wrong to move on from him,

or was it never going to work out in Calgary for Sam Bennett? For some players, you know, it is really interesting. For some players, you don't really actualize until you get to your second team it's funny as you don't mention this on on the interview on monday too like i don't think that there's a collection of obvious playoff players like every team says yeah you got to go get the playoff guys like there's this like group of playoff players sitting in a room waiting to be signed i think that players have it in them. You don't get to the NHL without being super competitive and also having a big sidebar of FU. Because by the time you

get to the NHL, you've heard and read and seen everything about your game. I just think that in Florida, for a lot of these guys, and you could even make the point with Barkoff as well. I think that there are just some teams where that side of your personality is able to come out. Like, we saw this type of Sam Bennett before in flashes in Calgary. We just didn't see it all the time, right? And now, would he have gotten there eventually in Calgary? Maybe. But he sure got there really quickly with the Florida Panthers.

And the one thing about the Panthers is, if you look at how Zito has put this team together, there's only like four players that are left over from the Dale Talon era. If you look at how I always focus on the first move that a general manager makes. What's the first move that Bill Zito made? He brought in Patrick Hornquist. That was move number one because there was a feeling around the NHL,

you guys know, that the Florida Panthers were an easy two points. You know, Tampa was going to be tough, but you could go into Florida, get two points, have an easy game was going to be tough, but you could go into Florida, get two points, have an easy game, and be out of the state. And he wanted this team to be tougher. And right away, the message was, I'm going to get Patrick Hornquist because we need to be miserable to play against. And if you look at everything that he's done since, he's gone out of his way to grab miserable hockey players and that turns guys that may not have had that personality whether it's you know Reinhardt or whether it's

for Hagee like they may not have had that already in their personality but when you get in a room with a bunch of miserable hockey players the miserable side of you comes out totally and so don't you think that we're seeing that with everybody? Like, did you see Reinhardt? Like, I'm not talking about the goals, but, like, the physics. Did you see Reinhardt play this way in Buffalo? Have you ever seen Brandon Montour play this way before he got to Florida? Like, not at all.

But this is a room that brings out the miserable part of every single hockey player. And I think that Sam Bennett is no different than anybody else. Well, you've got to get super competitive guys too, especially in a market like Florida. That's true. We always bemoan the pressure that we put on the players on the Canadian teams in the NHL. And there's no doubt that that pressure can be really tough to overcome. And there can be the fishbowl aspect of it. But the opposite can sometimes be true in places like Florida where, you know, let's be honest, the entire city or state isn't, they don't live and die with the Florida Panthers and you could easily get real comfortable in Florida. Can you imagine playing hockey in a place where you're not really recognized that much,

you're still making a lot of money, and after every practice, if you want, you can go play golf? Yeah. That's attractive to a lot of guys. Also, playing in Canadian markets are attractive. Some guys crave a big stage, right? And it's not like a knock on anybody who chooses to play in a quieter market or make a choice based on lifestyle for them or their family. But the interesting thing about it is, you know, Sheldon keeps comments like,

well, welcome to what the NHL is really like because Toronto is not the NHL. And you mentioned Canadian markets. In a perfect reality for the nhl every american market is like a canadian market right like that's the story of the nfl and the success of that league everything is built all around everybody is obsessed with that team right You look at every market and how the fan base and how the entire province revolves around that team. That's what every market in the U.S. wants to be.

Is it conducive to winning? Not necessarily, but that's what every market is aiming at, isn't it? Yeah. You bring up everyone except Jacksonville, maybe? Jacksonville just immediately popped in my bring up everyone except Jacksonville, maybe, but even Jacksonville just immediately popped him out. Right. I think they spend most of their time in England.

Actually, your point is largely understood. Jeff, we're right up against it for time. We'll let you go for now. When we do this again, we'll finally be a couple of games into the Stanley cup final. And that'll be next Wednesday. I'm,

I'm, I'm a, I'm a media member from the East, and I did an entire interview on a Vancouver radio station, and nobody hates me yet. Yet. Yet. Yet.

Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate it, buddy. Thanks for talking to me. Have a good one. Jeff Merrick, host of The Jeff Merrick Show on the 32 Thoughts Podcast, and the author of the Rink Fries blog here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Coming up on the other side of the Jeff Merrick Show on the 32 Thoughts Podcast and the author of the Rink Fries blog here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.

Coming up on the other side of the break, another guest to join the program, Ian Mendez from The Athletic in Ottawa, Travis Green, Nolan Baumgartner, Mike Yeo, now all on the coaching staff of the Ottawa Senators. We can also talk to Ian about the fact that he's now on the Utah Hockey Beat and their season ticket sales, which are, sorry, season ticket deposits, which are going hot and heavy in Utah.

And things don't often go hot and heavy in Utah. At 7.30, Jordan McPherson from the Miami Herald is going to join us. We'll talk about the Florida Panthers with him. 8 o'clock, Dan Murphy, Sportsnet's very own. Golfing with JT Miller and Nikita Zdorov. Talk to him about that. And we're giving away Snoop Dogg tickets June 25th at Rogers Arena. So 20 days from now, Snoop, DJ Quick, and Warren G will be at Rogers Arena.

Regulator. The regulator himself. When did Jonathan Quick become a DJ? No. Different Quick. You know DJ Quick does not have a C in his name. It's Q-I-K. It's like Nestle Quick?

That's how you spell it even quicker. It's because the gang affiliations. No C's, right? You got it? You know where I'm going with this? Yes. Yeah, okay, good. You don't say it out loud.

Okay. Yeah, he's just staring at me. It's like Macbeth. You don't explain why. All right. Yeah. So we got two more hours to come. Don't go anywhere.

You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.