Halford & Brough in the Morning - Patrik Allvin Held A State Of The Union Yesterday
Episode Date: January 21, 2025In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports (3:00), they chat about Connor McSuspension (6:00), the boys hear from Patrik Allvin via yesterday's State of the Union (12:00), plus ...they go around the NHL with ESPN Hockey's Greg Wyshynski (27:35). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.
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The winners should run the crap out of Vancouver on Thursday.
Connor McDavid should immediately withdraw from the Four Nations Tournament.
I'm not joking.
Why are you so pissy?
Good morning, Vancouver.
6-O-1 on a Tuesday.
Happy Tuesday Tuesday everybody.
It is Halford at his breath.
It is sports net six 50 and we are coming to you live from the Kintex studios
and beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason. Good morning. Good morning.
Hey dog. Good morning to you. Good morning. Good morning to you as well. Hello.
Hello.
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You know what we got today a really big show Canucks game day Canucks and Sabres seven o'clock tonight
Prior to all that though. We have a bunch of guests to talk to 630
Greg was Shinsuke is gonna join the program Nine games in the NHL last night and yesterday,
we can get into all those with Greg.
He also recently wrote about the Washington
Capitals who are going to be in town this
weekend to play the Vancouver Canucks.
He wrote about the Caps, Ovi, and the stunning
retool in Washington.
We'll also talk to him about the suspensions to
Connor McDavid and Tyler Myers and.
Yeah.
Can we leave that to Wish so we don't have to do this?
You know what, friend?
I think that's a good idea.
No, we'll have to do it.
We'll do it a little bit.
We'll do it a little bit.
Uh, Wish also handed out the Wyszynski
mid-season awards last week.
So we can talk to him about that.
So Wish at 6 30 from ESPN.
Seven o'clock Ray Ferraro is going to join the program.
I believe it's a Ray game tonight.
That's what the kids are calling it on the streets.
A Ray game tonight.
Ray Day. Ray Day, seven o'clock Canucks Sabres from Rogers Arena lots to get into with Ray get the JT Miller situation
His ice level view of cross-check a Palooza
On Saturday, we'll talk to Ray about all that and then of course the suspensions We can talk to Ray and wish about those suspensions
so Ray is at 7 o'clock and then at 8 o'clock, the second half of Ferraro Tuesdays. Landon Ferraro is going to join the program. Friendly reminder,
Canucks Sabres, you can hear it all right here on Sportsnet 657, 7 hours of Canucks
coverage today. You got Canucks Talk with Drance and Dodd, you got Canucks Central with
Sat and Dan. Pre-game shows at 6, puck drops at 7, then the post-game show
goes all the way through till 11 o'clock tonight. So we'll talk to Landon Ferraro at 8 a.m.,
Ray Ferraro at 7 a.m., and Greg Wyshinski at 6.30. Big hockey show ahead on the Halford
& Breff show on Sportsnet 650. That's what's happening today. Laddie, let's tell everybody
what happened.
Hey, did you guys see the game last night?
No.
What happened?
I missed all the action because I was.
We know how busy your life can be.
What happened?
You missed that?
You missed that?
What happened?
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Yet again,
we lead off with the Vancouver Canucks and we have a number of stories to get to
from the day prior. The first one, the big one,
Connor McDavid and Tyler Myers both suspended three games a
piece for their antics during Saturday night's game at the very end of
Saturday night's game, a three,
two win for the Vancouver Canucks at Rogers Arena.
It is the longest suspension
in Connor McDavid's 10 year NHL career.
Well, some people don't get suspended at all.
And if you're listening to the crying out of Edmonton,
you would think that he was never gonna return to hockey,
that it was a lifetime ban of sorts, but it is not.
It is just a mere three games.
So too with Tyler Myers.
Like I know this is a big deal to a lot of people,
especially if you live in Edmonton, apparently.
Uh, I don't really want to sound like I'm above the
fray here cause I'm not.
I love to get down in the gutter.
Uh, but arguing about the length of suspensions is
one of my least favorite activities when it comes to
this job, which is unfortunate because a lot of people seem to enjoy it. the length of suspensions is one of my least favorite activities when it comes to this
job, which is unfortunate because a lot of people seem to enjoy it.
Three games, here's the way I look at it, three games for McDavid and three for Myers,
sounds fair to me.
I thought it would be two and two.
I thought they would just match the Austin Matthews cross check of Rasmus Dallin, but
it's three and three, I guess.
McDavid has a bit of a history. Each cross check guy'sasmus Dallin. Sure. Uh, but it's three and three, I guess. McDavid has a bit of a history.
Uh, the, the each cross check guys in the head.
Yep.
Like they each, they each, you know, McDavid cross
check Garland in the head.
He did.
And Myers cross checked Evan Bouchard in the head.
He did.
It's hockey.
Sometimes players lose their tempers and they cross
the line in retaliation.
Three and three.
Seems fair to me.
Now that being said, I suppose there is
something worth discussing if McDavid feels
like he has to take matters into his own
hands because other teams are taking liberties
with him and the referees are ignoring it.
I suppose there's something to be
said there. Corey Perry, teammate of Conor McDavid was quoted by Mark Spector. Big long article on
sportsnet.ca and Perry says, why aren't we protecting the superstars? Why aren't we? Every other
league does it. They protect their superstars. Do other leagues have problems with Connor Garland sized players? Yeah, like this is Connor Garland
How do we silence this five foot eight 175 pound dynamo?
And here's the thing like
the the protecting the superstars
The problem of that line of thinking is that fans generally hate when superstars get preferential
treatment.
I don't know if anyone watched the Kansas City Chiefs game over the weekend, but it
wasn't like the entire league and its fan base was, well thank God they're protecting
Patrick Mahomes.
Good Lord, the guy calling the game, Troy Aikman, we played the audio, he was disturbed
and disappointed at the level of calls Personally Connor McDavid I admire the superstars who just play through it and yeah once in a while
you may have to show your teeth or even take someone else's teeth out to send a message that
you won't be bullied it's still hockey right like like I realize I'm a bit of a dinosaur now
hey come on you're on my side on this don't make fun of me I realize I'm a bit of a dinosaur now. Hey, come on. You're on my side on this.
Don't make fun of me.
I realize I'm a bit of a dinosaur here.
And obviously we don't want the game to go back to hooking and holding and
interference all over the ice, but it's still hockey and guys are going to try
and get you off your game.
If you're a superstar, remember Quinn Hughes in the playoffs last year,
everyone was hitting him, taking an extra shot. They weren't all in the rule book. Take it as a compliment
Connor. You're really really good at hockey. The same thing has happened to
literally every other superstar in hockey history. Some of them complained
about it. Mario Lemieux complained about, but that's fine. He still played through it.
And Connor, when you finally win a cup, if that ever happens, it'll feel like that
much more of an accomplishment that you battled through it.
That's right.
You earned it.
You got it done.
You know what you did?
You dug in.
You didn't rely on.
You dug in.
You didn't rely on Chris Lee and Wes McCauley to bail you out.
No.
Okay.
Now look, at the end of the day, the referee
should have just called Garland for a holding penalty.
This is also true.
Just make the call and maybe none of this happens.
Don't overthink it referees.
You know, we were texting back and forth.
You're like, don't galaxy brain this referees.
Like just Garland was holding McDavid, so
call him for holding.
Don't be like, well, if, if our arms go up, then you know, maybe, maybe the place stops
and that's an advantage for, just call it.
Just call it.
Garland's holding them.
Just call it.
So that's, it's funny.
I understand why this argument takes such life
and it has real vigor online.
Like people are like frothing at the virtual
mouth to argue back and forth.
There's so many points and counterpoints that you can make.
So your point that was made is totally viable.
Play through it and everything else.
The counterpoint to that would be like,
the referees do need to call the rules as they are written.
They can't just make it up as they go along.
For example, not calling a penalty on Garland
at the end of that game was them, yet again,
trying to manage the situation,
when the most obvious answer to this problem at hand is,
if Connor McDavid is penalized, you should call a penalty.
I think it's really cut and dry.
Now the issue that people are gonna run into is that
if you called every penalty that was taken on Connor McDavid
during an 82 game regular season, there would be approximately
932 million power plays for the Oilers because he gets taken down and interfered with and obstructed more than other players
Because he's better than all the other players. I think he's more than other players. You know what though?
I think it's because he's too fast. Maybe it's his fault.'s his fault. I got in your way. There's another counterpoint.
I got in your way. Sorry.
You're just too fast.
I didn't even see you.
And there's another counterpoint.
I think it's.
Couldn't you be too fast?
Is it not kind of silly that we're having
this discussion though about protecting the
superstars?
Cause was it a particularly egregious game
when it came to taking liberties on McDavid?
I don't think it was.
It was a mad scramble with 10 seconds left.
And it was a smart play by Garland.
It was.
It was a smart play. Like you. It was, it was brilliant.
Like you're almost taught that.
Not, it's not like you're taught that at the
peewee level or anything, but like your coach
would probably be like, Hey, there's 10 seconds
left in the game.
It's kind of like one of those times where you're
like, it doesn't matter if you like tie them up,
take them out of the play.
Whatever you have to do.
And I suppose that's the why the referees
think the way they do.
But like you're down, that's one of the disadvantages of being down a goal with 10 seconds to do. And I suppose that's the why the referees think the way they do, but like you're down.
That's one of the disadvantages of being
a goal down a goal with 10 seconds to go.
But was this happening all game long?
Like I don't think it was.
Well, it was happening throughout the week, right?
A lot of Oilers fans were arguing like, well,
if they would have just called on the penalty
on Garland, like Garland and McDavid wouldn't
have crossed checked him to begin with.
Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
They should have done that.
And there is some evidence out there, um, that's what I'm saying. They should have done that. And there is some evidence out there that McDavid
is not getting the calls this year as much
as he has in previous years.
Yeah, his penalties drawn are way low.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Listen, I understand the frustration out of Edmonton
because the narrative is clear, right?
Here's the narrative.
Connor McDavid isn't drawing as many penalties as he used to.
So now he has to take matters into his own hands and now he's
suspended three games, right?
Yeah.
Does that, does that make sense?
But who was saying that he should hold out of the four nations?
Oh, that was Bob Stauffer.
Friend of the show.
Noted friend of the show.
Well, he was like, he's like the mighty chud 880. Is it, is it, is it, is it Bob Stauffer. Friend of the show. Noted friend of the show, Bob Stauffer. He was like, on the mighty chud, 880.
Is it, is it, is it?
Whatever it is, 660, I don't know.
Is that, is that like his peaceful protest
or something like that?
Yes, Bob's argument was that-
The Gandhi, the Gandhi protest?
Right.
He's gonna actually go to Montreal and Boston
and sit cross-legged in front of the arena
as a way of protest?
Never gonna eat again.
Connie, you're looking a little thin bud.
Bob's argument was that the NHL,
who are making record revenues off the back
of superstar players like Connor McDavid,
should be doing a better job to protect
superstar players like Connor McDavid.
And then this latest exhibition,
where all of the NHL stars are gonna be on display
on an NHL platform. He should sit down.
I think it's pretty crazy.
I don't really want to,
do you want to go belabor this much more?
Cause there's a bunch of other stuff that we can get into.
I want to get into the real news.
Okay. So yesterday, and we'll put that aside,
don't expect to see Connor McDavid and or Tyler Myers
when the Canucks and Oilers meet again on Thursday.
Patrick Alveen, yesterday,
in what could be classified as an impromptu mid-season media
availability, met with the media on Monday afternoon to cover a variety of topics, none
of them very thoroughly or in depth as a matter of fact.
It was back to old Johnny Tightlips as far as I could tell for Patrick Alveen, didn't
have a lot to say, but on a couple of occasions, it could be argued that it was more
about what he didn't say than what he did say.
Yeah.
I was listening to Drance and Dodd after Alveen's
availability and I think, like you said, they
nailed it when they said that what he didn't say
was more interesting than what he did say.
For example, Alveen easily could have said that
the Miller rumors weren't true, but he didn't say that
because here's the thing, he'd be lying if he said that.
He'd be a liar.
Can't do that.
So instead of denying the rumors, he just kind of
danced around them by saying he's always looking
to improve the team.
Do you want to play some Patrick Alveen audio now?
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
This is Alveen on how he's not going to get into
any specific trade rumblings or chatters or rumors, but a reminder, he's always looking
to make his team better. I ain't saying nothing. I'm not going to go into any specifics and
comments on any talks around the league, but you know,
since I got here, I'm always trying to explore to make our team better in discussions and
see if it makes sense or not.
The toughest part has been to evaluate the group we have with all the injuries but again you see the
signs of a good team and coming together and playing the right way as
we did here against Edmonton as we did in Toronto a couple of days
ago. So we'll continue to see if that makes sense. Obviously the parody of the league, it's hard to
make deals at this time of the year and it's going
to be interesting here over the next couple of weeks.
Okay.
I'm going to throw this out.
This is almost a house of positivity thing.
Is there a possibility that the Canucks trade JT Miller, they lose the trade
in terms of talent that comes back to the Canucks,
but end up in a better place all the same?
Because listening to some of the comments from
some of the players and watching the Canucks play,
I think you do have to wonder if the Canucks
inconsistency issues, and that was the word that
Patrick Alveen used yesterday.
If those issues are partly a matter of losing
focus amidst all the noise, because it's one
thing, put yourself in the, in the shoes of the
players, it's one thing, put yourself in the, in the shoes of the players.
It's one thing to have to deal with trade rumors and media BS and social media BS.
But it's quite another, I think if it's not a unified workplace, players can stick
together in the face of the media saying that they're not playing very well or whatever.
But I think it's quite another thing.
Again, if the players aren't sticking together or players are fighting with each other
or players are fighting with coaches and players are taking leaves of absence,
you know, the things that have been happening
to the Canucks this season, let's face it.
I don't think we have to be inside the room to call
this a dysfunctional situation.
There's really no other way to describe it.
So what if that dysfunction went away?
How much could that potentially help?
Yeah, it's the old addition by subtraction
equation, right?
Is that you get better despite the fact that
you've lost, and let's be real, like Miller's
been a fantastic player for the Vancouver
Canucks over the last few years.
Like I'm not saying this is going to happen,
but I'm just wondering.
But you're probably not going to get the best
player in return on the deal because you've been
forced into this because you've been painted
into a corner, shoehorned into this very
uncomfortable situation where everyone knows
that you have the impetus to make a move.
That very rarely turns out well for a management
group when everyone else in the league knows
you're under the cosh to try and make a deal
because everyone's just salivating.
And it's the old adage when an NHL executive is drowning, all the other executives are
there ready to throw them an anchor.
No one's ready to throw them a life jacket.
Someone's trying to take advantage of this situation.
So you're probably going to get the inferior package in return.
However, sometimes you do reach that point where you say,
screw it. Even if we don't necessarily win the trade in a vacuum, we need to do this for the
bigger picture. And that's the room, the cohesion, the chemistry. I do have a bit of a problem with
a group that got this thrown off kilter by whatever's happened. Because I told you, I've been trying to parse through the New England Patriots
documentary, the eight part series on Apple TV.
And I'm at the part now at the end of the Belichick Brady relationship.
And they're going through how uncomfortable the room was in that year when they went
to the Superbowl against the Philadelphia Eagles.
And they said, you could cut the tension with a knife,
all the cliches, you could feel it
every time you walked in the room.
There was this uncomfortable, very awkward,
very unpleasant tension and rift
between coach and leader.
So you really had to take sides.
Are you a Belichick guy or are you a Brady guy?
Of course, they also won like 14 games and went to the Super Bowl. Like they managed to find a way through it. Yeah. You know,
like worst things have happened to people than a locker room rift. So my, I mean, and
I know it doesn't exactly answer what you're talking about, but I think for it to have
gotten to this point, yeah, it was probably bad and ugly and messy in the room, but it
does leave me wondering about
all of the individuals in it.
Not just maybe the central figures and the
protagonists and the main characters, not being
able to figure it out.
That will always, whenever we figure out what
happened here and who knows when we'll figure
that out, it'll always remain one of the great
mysteries is how they couldn't just figure
it out themselves.
And it had to end like this.
I want to read a tweet I got from a guy
named James yesterday.
And he just, it was his tweet, right to me.
It wasn't a reply to anything.
He said, I'm so confused about the Miller situation.
What happened and why are we seemingly about
to trade one of our best players?
It can't just be that two guys don't get along.
Something must have crossed a line and if so,
wouldn't his teammates be against him too?
That kind of, uh, struck me because I feel the same way. Right?
There's some confusion here, like what exactly
happened.
I don't think this is just about Miller and
Pedersen.
I don't think it is.
I think there might be, I think that's maybe
part of it, but there's no way that just because
two guys don't see eye to eye, they would trade.
Like something has escalated.
You would think.
In this situation.
Something has escalated in this situation.
I think Farhan has hinted at something that might
have happened between Miller and Tauke that,
um, that maybe led to the 10 game leave of absence,
but I think there's more to it than just Miller
and Petey not getting along.
You want to add another layer to this JT Miller
Vancouver Canucks drama?
Not really, but I guess we will.
Okay, so Pardip, Pardip, long time listener of the program,
texted in a couple of times this morning,
at 5.35 this morning, Pardip was on it,
and he texted in, oh boy, Spit and Chicklets has added another layer to this JT
drama. If you haven't listened to it, Biz talked to Aquiline. He didn't say this came from the owner
but mentioned the JT did ask for a trade in private. Looking forward to Brough and Halford
this morning. First off, it's Halford and Brough. Secondly, this obviously caught my interest. I'm like, hey, you know what? Spitting chicklets,
whatever you think of the platform and the information within, they are without a doubt,
one of the more dialed in and player friendly podcasts, maybe the most dialed in and player
friendly podcasts in the entire National Hockey League. So I thought, well, we're going to have
to get to the bottom of this well, we're gonna have to get
to the bottom of this.
We're gonna have to figure out exactly what was said
because this got released this morning.
So Laddie diligently went and downloaded the podcast
and found the audio.
I think what we should do is just let the audio speak
for itself.
The Canucks apparently have a new special assistant
to the GM.
Okay, good tease, Laddie.
Yeah, this is pretty wild.
Okay, we're gonna play it as is.
Here's Paul Bissonnette, Biz Nasty,
on the Spittin' Chicklets podcast from this morning.
I said the exact same thing to Akalini
as I did at the dinner table.
Regardless of how bad things are with J.T. Miller right now
and the drama surrounding it,
you don't give away this asset for nothing.
If it's so toxic, and I put my hands in the air,
which I don't think it's that bad,
but if it's that toxic,
given maybe the fact he's a little bit banged up,
I don't think he's playing his best hockey right now,
maybe a little bit of frustration
with the distraction of all the media stuff.
He has played a lot of hard hockey
over the course of the last 18 months.
And talk it was was I don't
want to say overly critical but just honest about his assessment of his game don't move off of this
asset for nothing healthy scratch him for five six games if you have to you might upset him
but my understanding he is asked for a trade now publicly he's denying asking for this trade. I didn't get
into the weeds about this with Accolini. I just simply said, don't trade him for a first
rounder and Hedl. That's not the move because even if you don't make playoffs this year
and he's not very good and things fizzle out to the point where maybe he's not even with
the team anymore, I don't think it'll get there, but how desperate are 10 to 15 teams in the league going to be this summer at
trying to get a first two line center.
You might not think he's a first line center,
but on a Stanley cup winning team, that's a second line center.
We talked about the possible upside of removing
the dysfunction or at least I guess, part of it.
If you trade Miller and maybe things calm down.
Hopefully things calm down.
I think from the Connach's perspective,
hopefully things calm down.
And the team can just focus.
Yeah.
Because you know, we hear a lot about the energy
that's been spent on all other issues for Rick Tocket, for example, you only
have so much energy.
When you're spending it on that sort of stuff,
it's less time to, you know, fix the power play
or, you know, work on systems or, or just, you
know, get the guys together and focused on a game
plan.
I really do wonder if all this noise around the
team has affected their preparation.
So many times the Canucks start out games
and you're like, are these guys ready to go?
The Canucks?
Yeah.
Seriously.
Yeah.
Really?
Now, all that being said, there's no guarantee
that trading Miller eliminates all the dysfunction.
I think more and more people are starting to realize how much additional pressure will be heaped upon the shoulders
of Elias Pedersen if Miller is indeed traded away.
Not even because Pedersen could be blamed for the situation,
but because the Canucks will lose a very, very talented player
and are unlikely in any trade to
receive an impact player of the same level in return.
This is a team that already has strut has
trouble producing offense, generating chances.
You trade away JT Miller, one of your top player
drivers when he's on his game and you go, okay,
Petey, guess what, buddy?
It's all on you now.
Let's go.
So you and Pugh suitor.
Let's go.
Come on, you and Phillip Heidel and see if that first round pick can play.
Right?
You know, like it's, it's, it's the pressure.
The pressure is only going to amp up.
But I know we talked to, I think it was Drance yesterday,
he said, well, there's already pressure on PDM, like you ain't seen nothing yet, brother.
Yeah.
If he doesn't pick up the slack in a major, major, major way, then it's going to get real ugly.
Yeah, the outside noise would grow even more. There's a lot of outside noise as it is right now. Okay, let's do a quick reset here.
Greg Wyshinski is going to join us on the other side.
I got a couple of things I need to tell you about
before we go to break.
First, I need to tell you that you can reserve your spot
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It's hosted by us, Sportsnet 650.
Visit theclaytonpub.com for more.
The Clayton Public House, good food, the 9th. It's hosted by us, Sportsnet 650.
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good times.
I also need to tell you about Rogers Xfinity TV.
HGTV has a new address.
All the latest HGTV shows are now available
on channel 409 only on Rogers Xfinity TV.
Lots more hockey talk to come.
Greg Wyshinski is gonna join us next
on the Haliford and Bref Show on Sportsnet 650.
Canucks talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance.
We'll dive deep into all that's happening
with the Vancouver Canucks.
Listen 12 to 2 p.m. on Sportsnet 650
or wherever you get your podcasts.
6.33 on a Tuesday. Happy Tuesday everybody.
Halpern Bruff, Sportsnet 650.
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We are in hour one of the program.
That's Greg Wyshinski's music.
He'll be joining us in just a moment here, the highlight of hour one.
Hour one of this program is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling, Vancouver's
premier metal recycler while they pay the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling,
they recycle, you get paid, visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. To the phone lines we
go! Greg Wyshinski joins us now on the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650. What up, Wysh?
Wysh, you guys at Vancouver would make less news. My God.
It's like, you know, we've waited for years for Toronto to be dislocated as the
center of the hockey universe.
I think it's happened in the like last month, courtesy of the Vancouver Canucks.
Everything in hockey that matters is it tracks back to Vancouver right now.
And the black hole drew Connor McDavid into it as well.
Vancouver right now.
And the black hole drew Connor McDavid into it as well.
He got sucked in.
He got sucked into the Vancouver craziness orbit.
What did you think about the suspension handed to him and I guess to Tyler Myers?
One game too high for both.
You could maybe make a case for Myers earning three because he has a little bit of a,
more of a checkered pass in so far as player safety than McDavid does. And also because what he did was clearly
like after the play was done too.
But at the same time, you could also make the argument
and Myers did in his hearing
that he's trying to deliver a cross check
to Bouchard's chest.
And instead it kind of rides up when he lifts his gloves
as he's getting the hit. So I mean,
that's a little bit closer to three than maybe two, but in McDavid's case, I mean,
I'm a lot more heat of the moment apologetic than player safety is insofar as Garland looking like
he's trying to win the Greco-Roman, with, with, with McDavid in the last minutes of the game.
I do think ultimately the people that Edmonton should be pissed at are Steven
Walkum and the NHL officiating crew, uh,
for allowing this to happen to a star player at that point in the game,
Garland in fact did not even get a penalty for holding after all that. Um,
I didn't see the hold. I didn't see the hold. I might be biased,
but I didn't see the whole thing. didn't see the hold. I might be biased, but I didn't see the hold.
But here's the thing.
If you look at the, again, it all comes down to a player's own history.
McDavid has, I think, a fine and a suspension, and this actually was an illegal check to
the head, not a stick to the head.
And then you have to look at the priors.
And I mean, it is undeniable that what McDavid did is very similar to what Carson
Susie did in the playoffs last year.
It's very similar to what Austin Matthews did.
And you know, Susie earned like one game, which is the equivalent of two regular season
games.
And Matthews got two regular season games.
So I know that they're leaning on the previous history with McDavid here as a justification
for getting him three,
but I would have landed squarely on two.
You can't hit somebody in the head with your stick, no matter how pissed off you are, but
I don't think that they got the number right.
What do you think of the notion out of Edmonton that the referees aren't protecting Conor
McDavid, he's not getting the calls that he has in the past, and now he's taking matters into his own hands.
It's like Death Wish in Edmonton.
Yeah.
Charles Bronson and Connor McDavid's, if Edmonton had a subway, look out.
Right, yeah.
There's a John Wick weaponry room underneath his mansion, out in Edmonton.
He's a vigilante now.
No, you know, I think he's never gotten the calls.
I mean, if you, if we were being honest about McDavid,
no one, no one plays the game like him.
No one can defend him.
If you wanted to call a penalty on every instance
in which he entered the offensive zone with the puck,
I'm sure you could find something.
It's kind of like the old NFL argument that's holding
on every play it's just a matter of whether or not it truly affects the play
right and so you know I I don't think we want a league where they call
everything on McDavid I really don't and I don't think Edmonton does well they
might they're probably pretty good but like it's not good for hockey to
overcorrect and and call every foul that's committed against Connor McDavid.
Does he get all the calls? No, he absolutely does not, even though the differential and
penalties is elephant time between him and the second-next guy on the list over the last
several seasons. But I think the real argument for them, and it's absolutely true, is we should not have a league
in which the best player in the world is tackled and held down in the waning seconds of a one-goal
game, and there's not a penalty called.
And I know the argument that people have made is like, well, the Oilers have the puck at
that point, so would there even be a penalty?
If they see an arm go up, they're going to fire the fuck up the nearest Canuck and get
whatever amount of time on a power blade they can get in a situation where it's going to
be 6 on 4.
I don't know, man.
Like, the embarrassment for me is not that McDavid doesn't get all the calls.
The embarrassment for me is that they allow that to happen to the best player in the world
at that point in the game.
And again, no penalty on Garland for holding.
They gave him two for roughing, like everybody on the ice, but not even the acknowledgement that something illegal was happening at that point in the game.
Right. And that's how the sort of Pandora's box, I guess, for lack of a better term,
gets opened here where Corey Perry is openly asking why aren't we protecting our superstars.
It is hard to argue that they do not like not a great job of it when compared to some of the
other sports
leagues because I mean I guess we just saw it over the weekend with Patrick Mahomes right now
you can make the argument that as many people hate the treatment that a guy like Mahomes gets
as the ones that like it but whatever the case there is a big monolith fully functioning league
which has gone out of its way to make sure that the people
who are the stars of the league and people pay to see are protected. And then you get the NHL where you've, I said it was referees galaxy braining it, where all you had to do is put your arm up in
the air and just say, you know what? We didn't get a chance to blow the whistle because the Canucks
never touched a puck, but we did signal for a penalty in that instance
because it was a penalty.
Instead, you get this thing where, oh, we had reasons.
We had the reasons not to do it.
And I do think that's one of the great divides
that I'm not sure the NHL will ever get over.
I don't think they're interested in protecting superstars.
Well, they're not interested in admitting
that their referee has run a script.
That's true.
I mean, my old drinking buddy, Tim Peele,
literally has talked about how there were certain points
in the game he was gonna call a penalty
because he felt he owed it to a team
and all this other stuff.
And the whole point of this is not that it was McDavid,
it was that they're not gonna call a penalty
in that point in the game, you know,
when Edmonton's controlling play.
I mean, they're just not.
It's just not in their interest to do so. They don't want to determine the winner
of a game. And so to me, that's always been the issue with these guys, is that
anyone who's watched as much hockey as the three of us have and as many people
in the listening audience have, can kind of like calibrate when a penalty will
come and when a penalty won't come. And that's embarrassing. It's always been embarrassing.
My good buddy and podcast partner, Jeff Merrick,
likes to call it game management.
I think that he likes the idea of the referees
not exerting their will and trying to keep order
and doing things here and there
to make sure the game is sailing steady.
I've always thought it is absolute crap
that these guys don't call the calls in front of their face.
And the reason that there wasn't a holding penalty
on Garland is because it was in the last moments of the game
and these guys don't want to affect play.
It's always been like that.
We all know it's always been like that.
The NHL will never acknowledge it's always been like that.
We're speaking to Greg Wyshinski from ESPN here
on the Haliford and Bruff show on Sportsnet 650.
So some of the zest has been taken out of Thursday's rematch
between the Oilers and the Canucks.
So you know what, let's just look ahead to Saturday Saturday because Alexander Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals are coming to town and
For those that haven't read it yet, Greg has a most excellent piece about ESPN right now
Inside the capital's stunning retool around Alex Ovechkin
and I think the stunning retool is the perfect descriptor for this because
Remember not too long ago. You were asking Jason aloud, he's like,
what are the point of the capitals?
What's the point of the capitals?
Yeah, yeah.
Right now.
Is this just all an effort to keep OV in the league
and he reaches Gretzky's record and then,
and then I don't know, they disband or whatever,
what's going on with the capitals?
So tell us about your piece, Wish.
Well, it was really interesting to dive in with their management team
and kind of understand why this has happened.
They've made some really bold decisions that have paid off.
Spencer Carberry coming from the Toronto bench to become their head coach.
He's going to probably win the Jack Adams this year and rightfully so,
because I think he's done a hell of a job with them both offensively and defensively. One of their executives said something that really
stuck with me which is that there's a notion in this league that you can't get guys that are like
under 26 via trade. Like they're not available and yet you look at what the Capitals did with Dubois,
what they did with Chickren,
to a somewhat lesser extent what they did with Logan Thompson, because he's a little
bit older, he's like 27.
I mean, in all those instances, you had some distressed assets.
Thompson wanted out, Dubois was a mess in LA, Chickren was kind of a Matthew Kachuck
situation where the Ottawa senators knew he wasn't going to resign there.
But in every case, they landed these guys and in every case,
they've been the reason the Capitals could win the president's trophy this
year. Like big swings for younger players and not being afraid to do so.
And then the other thing too, I mean like it's kind of amazing to think about the
Ovechkin era and the fact that I think they've only missed the playoffs twice
since 2008 I want to say. And if you look at the number of first round
picks they've made in that span, it's startling.
Like they've only not, they've only been like
three seasons, I think, or some such where they've
not had a first round pick.
So, you know, when you think about Ovechkin in the
era right now and him breaking Gratsky's record
and what comes next, well, what comes next is
Ryan Leonard, you know, the, the, the captain of the US. He's going to be good, man. Yeah, what comes next is Ryan Leonard, you know, the captain of the US.
He's going to be good, man.
Yeah.
What comes next is Cole Hudson, you know, Lane's
brother who also became the first defenseman to
lead world juniors in scoring.
I mean, like, like they've got another wave of guys.
Some of them that are currently on the team and
it's kind of incredible when you look at the
smoldering heap that is the Blackhawks and the
delaying the inevitable that is the Penguins at the capital's other titan of the last 15 years
have just been able to not only stay steady but get better and also have a clear look
at what the post-Occitan era is going to look like. It's crazy.
Do you think the lack of player movement in the NHL compared to some other leagues
has more to do with the hard cap or more to do with the generally conservative and
sometimes scared nature of the general managers?
I know, I think part of it's the hard cap, but I think more of it is free agents,
is free agent rules.
Like you still have indentured servitude until you're 27.
Like that's, that's a fact.
And sometimes you can shake these guys loose in certain situations. But you know, if the
controllability of a player's contract remains in a team's hands until unrestricted free agency and
unrestricted free agency being that close to 30, I mean that's really what restricts a lot of this
movement. Now, is that good or bad? I think you can say it's good in the sense that it keeps
these players that get drafted by terrible teams
in places maybe where they don't wanna live,
it keeps them on those rosters for a decent amount of time
until they have the chance to leave.
But as far as the excitement of the Hot Stove League,
the excitement of player movement
looking more like the NBA than anything else, I think that's the biggest restrictor, more
so than the cap, especially now that the cap's going to have a rocket strapped to it over
the next three seasons.
I've got to ask you, from your situation outside of Vancouver, what do you think of this whole
JT Miller thing?
I'm still cooling off from that torrid press conference from Alvin yesterday.
He said so much.
He was so candid.
I mean, it's actually kind of funny.
He actually was pretty candid in the sense of what he didn't say.
Didn't say there was any untouchables.
He didn't say Miller wasn't on the block.
He clearly didn't say that he was fully expecting Rick Tocket back after this season.
It is after all a two-way street place. I mean, it's inevitable that Miller is going to get
traded, I think, if we're being honest. When you come that close to a deal and it falls through,
it shows how active you've been in trying to make something happen. I think the age of Pedersen
probably scares the hell out of them in so far as cutting bait with him now when he could continue to be as good as he's been someplace else and
maybe get better.
And then you look terrible for it.
And they've clearly have some dance partners that are interested in Miller.
It's funny, I think the Athletic wrote about what the potential return on the trade could
be.
And I'm sure that, you know, Hedl'd learn lingering and a first or not exactly what you expect for
a guy that had the points that Miller had last year and has the
intangibles that he had. But we got to remember this guy has
full control. And with full control, there's probably I
mean, if there are four teams he wants to go to that's, that's,
that's the max. And so they're going to do whatever they can.
They obviously have to fix the situation within their room and within their team
It's it's too much of a distraction and at the same time also pivot into into getting a decent return
It's gonna allow them to remain competitive
It's it's a neat magic trick. I don't know if they're gonna be able to pull it off correctly
But something's got to change and it seems I mean it seems like if you read the TV
It's that it's that they've settled on Miller being the change.
Um, tell us quickly about Philip Hedl because, uh,
he is a center and I know the Canucks, if they
could, they'd prefer to get a center back in this
deal to not replace Miller, but you know, not be
in a situation where Pugh suitor is there, is
there 2C behind Elias Pettersson? Is there, is there two C behind Elias Peterson?
Is there, is there upside in the Hiddle?
He's only 25 years old.
He's good.
I mean, he's, he's a very good offensive center.
Um, he obviously doesn't bring anything close to
what Miller brings to the table in so far as
intangibles go.
I don't think anyone's ever said, you know,
to really thrive in the playoffs you need to fill a pedal in your foxhole.
It's not, he's not that kind of player, but he is very talented offensively. His issue has been twofold in New York as far as what he might actualize as in the NHL. One is health, obviously.
He's had concussion issues. He's not been able to stay in the lineup. And the second thing is the depth chart.
I mean, he's been behind Zabanićad and Troček now for a couple of seasons, and he's not
going to unseat either of those guys in the lineup.
So you don't really know what it looks like if he gets a long run with Panarin or Kreider
or something like that.
So there might be some upside there that we haven't seen in New York. But you know, as far as being a, look, if
it could be like Schneider and Hedl in a first, you could do it okay for
yourself in a trade in which a guy has full control over where he's going. But
Lindgren and Hedl, two guys that to me are completely
undependable insofar as staying in the lineup, especially Lindgren,
who every playoff seems like he's being kept together by scotch tape and prayers.
I don't know if that's necessarily the return you want for JT Miller.
Before we let you go, I know we missed this last week, the timing didn't work out,
but the Wyszynski Awards were released, the mid-season Wyszynski Awards. Who did you pick as MVP?
Wyshinski Awards were released, the mid-season Wyshinski Awards. Who did you pick as MVP?
I wore my tux.
It was fantastic.
You lost speech.
You're asking a question that's now left my mind.
Who did I pick for MVP?
You picked Leon Dreisaitl.
I did pick Leon Dreisaitl.
So Dreisaitl, McKinnon, Hellebuck, Quinn Hughes, I think there's all conversations
we had.
Unfortunately, I think Caprice office missed too many games to really be in the mix right
now, but not the thing about dry said, Liz, one, he's done it with a variety of, of worse
line mates than, than with, with whom McDavid plays.
And if you look at his underlying numbers, he led the league in goals above replacement,
he led the league in goals above replacement, he led the league in wins above replacement.
He has the analytic argument over McKinnon right now, who, you know, I
think is a worthy candidate as well.
So at the time of the writing and probably still right now, I would say
dry sidles my MVP with the acknowledgement that we're going to have to figure out
the Connor Hellebuck of it all at some point because like that's not a very good Jets team.
Like you look inside the numbers of that Jets team, I should say not a very good Jets team at
five on five. They're obviously a very good team. They're not a very good team at five on five and
and I think Hellebuck has really saved their bacon in ways that maybe we didn't anticipate
he'd have to earlier in the season when the Jets are rolling so we're gonna have to we're gonna have to litigate the hell of a part of the hard trophy conversation because it gets into that weird
territory of
Should a goalie ever be MVP should they be MVP every season and that's always a fun debate to have wish you're the best buddy
Thanks for doing this today. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of the week and all the games
We'll do this again next Tuesday
Any time thanks have me. Thank you Greg Wyshinski from ESPN here on the Halford and Bruff Show on Sportsnet 650.
Have you got Wishes Awards piece up?
I do.
Who won Lenoris at the halfway point?
So they're the Wyshinski awards.
So this is him?
Yeah. So it's things like-
This is not polling other-
No, this is just Wyshinski. So he had, for example, a Wysh award was the least valuable
player in the NHL. Oh, who was that?
That award went to Jeff Skinner.
Oh, okay.
Which is actually a pretty good choice.
I thought it was going to be Chandler Stevenson.
He is definitely a worthy candidate.
And you know how I've got the ongoing, um, I'm
going to criticize the Seattle Kraken because
nobody in Seattle seems willing to do it.
Why would I?
Big win for them last night.
Have you noticed that Joey DeCord is playing
pretty much every game?
Has to.
Not pretty much every game.
He has to.
I think he played it back to back.
Grubauer is unplayable.
Grubauer is unplayable.
Unplayable.
Yeah.
So they've won four of their last six.
DeCord has been in net for almost all of them.
The only one he wasn't in net for, it was a
6-2 loss to the Detroit Red Wings, in which
Philip Grubauer was in net.
And I think DeCourt had to go in there.
Yeah.
I think Grubauer got pulled after like six
minutes or something like that.
And I mentioned this because the Seattle
Kraken, one four six, big win last night
against the Buffalo Sabres, who of course the
Vancouver Canucks are going to be hosting
tonight at Rogers Arena.
Joy DeCourt.
So they're not, so I wanted to do this real quick
because there were some scores
that we needed to pay attention to last night
because we are still very much in scoreboard watching season
despite the fact that there's so many other things
going on in Canucks land.
Sometimes I forget that they are embroiled
in a very heated playoff chase.
So going into tonight's action,
Calgary still holds that second wild card spot by one point over the Vancouver Canucks.
Calgary's on 51 points, Canucks are on 50.
And now the St. Louis Blues.
The St. Louis Blues have drawn neck and neck
with the Vancouver Canucks on 50 points.
This after a wild game against Las Vegas yesterday
in which they looked as though they had the lead
and the win comfortably
only to give up two goals in the final minutes of regulation. They come back, they win in a shootout,
so they get their two points. They've won three of their last four and four of their last six.
They're inching closer and closer to that playoff spot. Now the other team that did this last night
and a game that I watched was Utah who had a huge win at home against the Winnipeg Jets team that Wish was just
talking about. They won 5-2. They're starting to heat up as well.
They're averaging close to four goals a game over their last four games.
They're just three points back of Seattle or sorry, of Vancouver and St.
Louis. Obviously the Canucks and Blues are on 50 points
and Utah's on 47.
So the Western Conference chase,
I'm not ready to say that the Kraken are back or anything.
They need to go on a real heater to get back in.
But Utah's making it interesting,
St. Louis is making it very interesting,
which puts a fair amount of pressure on a team like,
oh, I don't know, the Vancouver Canucks tonight
to get a winning, it's a really bad Buffalo team.
By the way, we didn't get a Buffalo guest today
because we felt like we could probably do
the Buffalo recap.
Okay.
Well, let's do that on the other side.
We'll talk about the Sabres for a little bit.
And we'll also dip into the Dunbar Lumber
text line, 650, 650.
Any questions or comments you have about the
state of the Vancouver Canucks, the JT Miller
situation, Patrick Alveen's availability yesterday.
I also want to talk about what Patrick Alveen
said about the head coach, Rick Taka, because
that is yet another piece of uncertainty
surrounding this Vancouver Canucks team.
You're listening to the Halford and
Bruff show on Sportsnet 650.
Couple things to tell you before we go to break.
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You're listening to The Halford and
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