Halford & Brough in the Morning - Petey Is Starting To Find His Game

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

In hour two, Mike & Jason talk the latest hockey news and NHL trade rumours with Daily Faceoff's Frank Seravalli (1:47), plus the boys chat more about last night's Canucks win over the Flames (27:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Sarah Valley, Sarah Valley, Sarah Valley, Sarah Valley, Sarah Valley, Sarah Valley, Frank Cerebelli Frank Daily Face Off Frank 704 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Frank You're listening to the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Halford & Brough of the Morning is brought to you by Vancouver Honda, Vancouver's premier destination for Honda customers. They have a friendly, knowledgeable staff that can help with anything you're looking for,

sales, financing, service, or parts. We are now in Hour 2 of the program. Frank Cervalli from Daily Faceoff is going to join us in just a moment here to kick off Hour 2. Hour 2 is brought to you by Jason Hominick from Jason.Mortgage. If you love giving the banks more of your money, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. Just kidding. Let him do exactly that.

Visit him on the internet at Jason.Mortgage. We are coming to you live from the Kintec studio. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. So, Orfee, what are you waiting for? Kintec, before we get to Frank, a quick note of clarification. I got it wrong. Bruff got it right prior to going to break.

Bronny James will not be playing for the Los Angeles Lakers tonight when his father in the Lakers hosts the Memphis Grizzlies because Bronny, he's in the G League. But he's only playing home games in the G League. He's going to flip back and forth. So there you go. Your NBA update for tonight. Reminder, that game is on Sportsnet.

Let's go now to the phone lines. Frank Cervalli from Daily Faceoff joins us now on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Morning, Frank. How are you? Good, boys. How are you doing? We're well. So you are, are you still in Toronto for the NHL general managers meetings

or have you left the city? No, I made it back home last night. Beautiful. What was your biggest takeaway from the, I call it the appetizer GM meeting for the bigger one that happens later in the year, but this is sort of a table setter for the general managers. What was your biggest takeaway from the, I call it the appetizer GM meeting for the bigger one that happens later in the year, but this is sort of a table setter for the general managers. What was your biggest takeaway from the meeting in Toronto? Man, it's a tough one because it's a meeting with

not a lot of talk and not a lot of action. A huge chunk of the time on the floor was spent talking about the NCAA rule change with regards to the CHL and everyone trying to wrap their brains around the ripple effects of what that means for the game. I personally, I lean more towards some of the data that they present. And I wrote something today on Daily Faceoff about, it's kind of amazing that we're essentially one year on from adam johnson's horrific death on ice in britain and only seven percent of the nhl is wearing neck guards this season that data was passed along to gms at the meeting and the fascinating part about it is that it's the league itself who is

logging all of these close calls. And I actually, there was one last night in a game that it's just like, it's amazing that we don't have more significant, potentially devastating injuries. And why are these guys still seeing all of it and not choosing to wear neck guards like i get the idea of comfort but you're really leaving yourself at risk and that was an eye-popping piece of data for me how has the nhl encouraged players to wear neck guards

so a big part of it has been education and information. Like they're putting products in the hands of trainers. They're putting informational materials, testing data, photos of gear, notices in locker rooms. Like they're letting everyone know, this is all readily available to you. So the good part is there's been an uptick in cut resistant material being worn by players on their arms and the wrist area,

and also on their legs in the ankle and Achilles area, because those are obviously also exposed. But to me, I mean, the neck and just the significance of the area, I guess I'm a little bit surprised that 93% of the NHL still isn't wearing one. Is there any chance the league would try to mandate neck guards in the next CBA? Yeah, so if they had their choice now, I think they would have already done it. But it is a CBA negotiated issue. You can't unilaterally make an equipment change, even if it's for the player's own good. So Colin Campbell said yesterday, you know,

we'll add it to the list of things that they're going to talk about with the NHLPA. But the PA has actually pushed back here and said hey this is player choice and comfort like it's up to them they're grown adults whether they'd like to wear one or not the other hope from the nhl is that since this has now been made mandatory in all of the chl all of usa hockey and um also the ah, that players will just kind of grow up wearing one and then don't feel a need to take it off when they get to the NHL, kind of like visors. We know they're mandated.

We're down to just four players, four skaters left in the entire league that don't wear a visor. Yeah, well, maybe that's the way they that don't wear a visor. Yeah. Well, maybe that's the way they'll have to do it though. They'll have to kind of grandfather in some guys and then make all the young guys wear one, just like the visors. Speaking of the CBA,

I was reading that there was some feedback provided to the league about contract term limits and how the GMs, I imagine some of the GMs would like it if possible. And I know they want to get a CBA done. They don't want to have a big battle royale with the NHLPA, but they would like it if they could bring those term limits down. Eight years if you sign with your own team, seven years on the open market. What do you think the chances of them aggressively going after a reduction in contract term limits is?

I mean, it might be on the list of things to pursue, but I can tell you that in canvassing, you know, in a non-scientific poll yesterday, it's not a universally supported idea. No one really likes being force-fed a term limit, and especially players on their end. But even some GMs, I mean, just think about the way everyone runs their household or handles their bills. Sometimes you like opting for a longer term, and it might mean more payments, but they're for a lesser amount. Sometimes you like opting for a longer term and it might mean more payments, but they're for a lesser amount. So teams like taking a deal and spreading it out over time and lessening the AAV. To take that off the table, I think is a tool that, yeah, you might end up with some managers that ultimately end up saving themselves from themselves.

But there is certainly a chunk of the NHL that likes it exactly the way it is. And there's definitely on the player side, that's probably going to be met with some vehement resistance. You know, you're attacking essentially the security and potential long-term earnings of players by doing that. So the interesting thing is, and why this became a topic of conversation is the league is basically preparing now for those CBA talks that are expected to begin in the new year. And they want a wishlist from GMs. And they actually want it in priority order. What matters most to you running your team? So it's not just contract term limits that's potentially on the table.

They want to talk about the arbitration process. Should we be instituting a salary cap for the playoffs? If not, do we need to reimagine how LTIR is used? They've talked about the post deadline recall rule. And then the other part of it will be, I think almost everyone universally believes we're going to be going to an 84 game regular season schedule. What might that look like? How much travel should everyone be doing should we keep the schedule matrix similar and then also how do we handle pre-season so these are all things that the gms to your point with this being an appetizer meeting they're all now going back home

to their teams thinking okay how do we what matters here and how do we pull this off but at the same time they're you know a bunch of them that I talked to yesterday were saying, yeah, it's great that the league is taking our temperature on this, but they're ultimately going to decide what's worth fighting for and what isn't. Frank, give us some trade gossip, because when all the teams get together there, I'm sure people were talking to each other. Is there a team out there that you can think of that wants to really shake something up right now?

Yeah. I talked to Kevin Adams, the GM of the Buffalo Sabres for a story that'll be coming out tomorrow. And he's definitely interested. But there's two things in the way. One, he mentioned mostly everyone is not in trade mode right now. And two, he also really likes his team.

And so the hard part for him and a lot of others is you have to give to get. And I hate that we've talked about the Sabres, I think, three weeks in a row now. But the fact of the matter remains that they haven't gotten off to a good start. While there's some promising aspects of their game, they don't defend well enough. Despite Kevin Adams saying that their analytics are actually pretty good in that category, their special teams haven't been very good.

And at odd times, they also aren't getting saved. So they're not able to pull off any consistent run because I kind of think about the Sabres like I do my golf game. If I can get off the tee, I can't hit a green to save my life. And if I can hit a green, then that day I can't putt. So it's like for the Sabres, their offense has gotten going, but they defend at times like it's summer hockey.

And then when they defend well on nights like that, they can't score a power play goal. It's like you have to be able to string together some run. And the only way to do that is with more consistent play in every facet. We're speaking to Frank Cervelli from Daily Faceoff here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. There was a lot that was going on yesterday, although I did see it all come across in my folder about Ken Holland picking up a new gig in the NHL. What does it entail? What's Ken Holland going to be doing

for the NHL now? It's going to get Ken Holland out of the house. I know he's only been there for a little while, but it's a hockey operations consultant role. It's for the remainder of this season. He did have a few conversations with a number of teams about either consulting or a president role or some kind of advisory role to be in back in the NHL. He decided at this period in time that he doesn't want to just sit on his porch in, in Vernon,

BC as beautiful as that probably is that he, he wants to, you know, keep a hand in the game. And so being involved in the situation room, occasionally filling in and providing insight on things that he's seeing and ways to improve the game. A big topic of conversation, again, no surprise, unfortunately,

was Coach's challenge in video review. And as a manager who's been on the other side of this since the mid-1990s, he understands the viewpoint from teams probably better than just about anyone. And so for him to provide that analysis and expertise, I think is really valuable to the league. I was scrolling through your timeline this morning

and I saw that you wrote about, or briefly tweeted about, this story out of Sweden where former Team Sweden head coach and GM Johan Garpenlof highly critical of Erik Karlsson's selection to the Swedish roster for the upcoming Four Nations face-off. Now, you know, Karlsson wasn't just named to the roster. He was one of the original six, the first six that they did a little while back. And I kind of thought it was interesting as well

that he was one of them. I assumed it had to do more with reputation than his actual current style and status of play but um one what did Garpenloff say and two how big a story is this in Sweden right now oh it's a pretty sizable story in Sweden I can tell you just because unfortunately I was trying to sleep last night and I forgot to turn on Do Not Disturb. And my phone started pinging at one in the morning with people saying, hey, did you hear what Johan Garpenlof just said on Swedish radio? And I'm like, no, I'm sleeping. But the actual quote was, his shortcomings in the defensive game are too great in such a short tournament and it holds weight because one i think that's what a lot of people are seeing with their own eyes watching his game

with the pittsburgh penguins but two swedes generally don't slap swedes and they only slap fins i say that in jest but like it's to have one that has held a prominent national team role head coach gm former player um that like he was on the bench the last two olympic games for team sweden this isn't a nobody saying it so when he's already been selected it's kind of like crying about spilled milk but um it's still nonetheless as everything is swirling around the pittsburgh penguins i mean just add it to the list who was it that walked around him in vancouver was it daniel sprung just like walked around him in the neutral zone like he was standing still and went in i think it was sprung and went in, I think it was Sprong, and went in and scored on him. And it was pretty shocking to see that happen.

Zero compete. Yeah. So with the state of Letang's game also in Pittsburgh, like, man, like, I have to admit, when the Penguins started extending all these guys, like Malkin and Letang, and then they added Eric Carlson um it wasn't a complete match but I got the same like am I taking crazy pills and this is a dumb

idea like uh when San Jose started doing it with all their players and locking up all their players I'm like this does not seem like a very good idea. Getting all these age, granted stars, but aging guys locked up with no push from below in terms of the prospects. Like this looks like it's going to go badly. And it has. And yet I still hear people that were like, the Eric Carlson trade was a good idea. I was like, no, it wasn't. I would argue that in his first month in the job, Kyle Dubas plunged the Pittsburgh Penguins further down into the depths of the NHL standing.

I would 100% agree with you. Think about the trade. In fact, I'm going to start with the signings, one of which he finally undid yesterday in Lars Eller. Right. Nola Chari, three years. Then you extend Tristan Chari in net, who you give him basically north of the Jack Campbell contract and find yourself in a jack campbell situation in

short order then the carlson trade not only did they not need him but they definitely didn't need another bloated salary and then to compound all of it you gave up your first round pick in a year in which you didn't make the playoffs to get that guy so it's there there can't be a push from below because they don't have any prospects. This is it. What you see with the Pittsburgh Penguins is essentially what you get. They've got Rutger McGrody now, and that's it. So they're in a really tough spot, and this whole idea of, oh, well, it was worth the swing to get carlson his his production

plummeted basically 50 year over year from san jose to pittsburgh there's the salary there's the injury and then there's the loss of the draft pick that just makes it hurt that much more speaking of the eller trade and we did have a couple people text into the dunbar lumber text line at 650 650 about that is that a one-off or do you see that as a sign as maybe the first domino to fall in a series of moves for the penguins here's the issue with a series of moves that could come from the pittsburgh penguins and why i i wasn't laughing but like if you tell other general managers in the league, everyone on my team is available outside of 87, well, are they? And if they are, does anyone want them?

I'm not saying that to be funny or get a rise out of people brian rust evgeny malkin chris letang i mean half the almost half the roster has a no move no trade where are these where are these guys going ricard raquel untradeable um tristan jari untradeable i just it's it's nice to be open to want to do things and and it'd be really odd at this point in time with your team in the bottom five in the league and points percentage if you weren't open to doing more but where are these guys going and who's taking them i see some value potentially in in marcus petterson um who by the way um I think kind of early on, the Canucks in the Rutherford-Alvien tenure had maybe had some interest in.

Pending UFA, reasonable deal. But he doesn't help the Canucks in that his biggest struggle is he can't make an outlet pass. Simple or long, he really struggles with that part of the game with the puck on his stick. That's exactly what the Canucks don't need. So, um, that was a tangent, but it's, it's difficult for the Pittsburgh Penguins to find pieces of value on their roster that they could move even though they're open to it.

Right. This was great, buddy. As always, thanks for taking the time to do it. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the games tonight and the rest of the week. Frank, this was great, buddy. As always, thanks for taking the time to do it. We really appreciate it. Enjoy the games tonight and the rest of the week. We'll do this again next Wednesday. See you guys. See you later.

Frank Cervalli from Daily Base Off here on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. So do you think until Sid, like, retires, we're going to be asking questions like, do you think he'd waive his no trade clause to move? I, you know. I just wonder if things get so bad there for the Penguins

that he considers it. Because you know if he went to them and said, look, I want to go chase another cup somewhere else. They'd be like, okay. We'll do that for you. I'm amazed he hasn't already done that. Some guys don't want to do it.

He's won three Stanley Cups. He wants to. He's a Pittsburgh guy. Well, you know who he idolized growing up, too, was Steve Iserman. And one of Steve Iserman's legacies is spent the entire career with the Red Wings through the good and the bad. Mario, too.

Right? And Mario. And I think Sid is such a creature of habit too that making a change to a new team would be like, what? This is crazy. He's also got friends. I think one of the reasons he has,

he probably has faith in guys like Gino and Latang just because he's won with them before. And it can be hard to admit that we're still good but we're not as good as we used to be yeah I think there's there's something like Sid is still amazing he is not as good as he used to be no but which but he's but his level is still very high his drop-off's been minimal compared to some of his other running mates in Pittsburgh. Well, I wonder if Letang, I mean, with all Letang's health concerns, if he wanted to hang him up, they could easily LTI that contract. Yes.

Right? But I just think they're so far away from getting any push. Like Rutger McGrory, you know, he spent three games with the Penguins, no points. He's down in Wilkes-Barre now. He has two points in nine games. People were like, he could help them. I'm like, well, when? In two years when he's developed and we're even worse?

I mean, I just keep coming back to the Eric Carlson trade and I think, first of all, you didn't need this guy. And it's $10 million in cap space. Yeah. Think what they could do with that. They could have two buntings. Two buntings. Two buntings for that.

Two buntings? Two buntings. In this economy economy it'd be funny if it was a symbol for crosby's like i don't know moving seems like a lot of work by the way i just don't there's so much involved i just don't want i don't want to see sid go out on a bottom feeding team well that's why he comes to the canucks and wins a cup with us and that cements his legacy is one of the greatest players of all time. By the way, someone texted in as the conversation with Eric Carlson and the scathing remarks from Johan Garpenlov in Sweden.

And someone said, well, who else would they put on the team instead of Carlson? I'm still, this was five minutes ago, I'm still typing the list of other guys you could take. They got great defensemen. They got amazing defensemen. Sweet, amazing defensemen.

By the way, we didn't talk about this at the time because the NHL in all its infinite wisdom decided that they were going to announce these rosters right in the middle of the draft and free agency and everything. I don't know why they decided to do it then, but the Sweden first six was the most puzzling one to me because they made Carlsen one of the core six. I was like, I don't get that at all.

I could name six better defensemen right now, I think. Never mind six players, period. Yeah, this was after a pretty so-so year in Pittsburgh. They went Eric Carlson, Victor Hedman, Gustav Forsling, Mika Zbignad, William Nylander, and Philip Forsberg. Now, Zbignad, to me, I was like, okay. I think he's also in that Carlson conversation where his best hockey has been played already. It's not.

Yeah, he's more in his prime than Carlson is. Yeah, but those were the two that really stood out for me. But if you go through that list of defensemen that got left off and they named three of the six spots were reserved for defenseman like Rasmus Darlene. God, Oliver Ekman Larson's played his way into contention. Ekholm, Larson, Brodine, Hampus Lindholm. There's a million guys. You maybe don't necessarily need to have a guy like Eric Carlson there

if he's struggling. I don't know what the rules are for roster selection. Can you do a mulligan and be like, you know what? Of that original six, I'd like to rescind one of those. We meant Leo Carlson. Can we take him? Sorry Sorry there was some confusion there I know they spell their surnames differently But anyway

Carlson's it's hard to remember We're way up against it for time but that's okay because we got an open segment coming up next If you want to weigh in on anything Dunbar Lumber text line is 650-650 We'll try and get to it next You're listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. This is the song

They would play to Roll the credits On a fun 80s movie Yep It's The Power of Love By Huey Lewis more or less This song Oh yeah No no no. It's The Power of Love by Huey Lewis, more or less, this song. Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no, no.

It's I'll Be Waiting for Your Love. Oh, okay. Power of Love. Get it right. By Louie Lewis was a great song. That was a banger. Kicked off the start of Back to the Future. Yeah.

That was the one where you're skateboarding on the back of the car, right? Yeah. That's right. At the very first scene of the first movie. I remember when that scene came out, I was immediately like, we got to try this. Yeah. Parents everywhere were like, oh no. Yeah, parents everywhere watched that.

They were like, damn it. Okay. Mom, fire up the Chevy Malibu. We're going skateboarding. I can't get over how just blatant this ripoff is. It is pretty blatant. It's the power of love. Oh, no, we might get copyrighted.

Hold on. Oh, yeah, right. 735 on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Alfred Brough, Sportsnet 650. We're at the half hour mark of the program. Doing pretty well so far, despite the fact it was a late night for everyone. Shout out to AJ's Pizza on East Broadway.

Sent us to the game last night. Fed us thoroughly prior to the game. Thank you for the leftovers you all brought this morning. There was none left. None. We cleaned out that bad boy. They gave us cool hats, too. Yep. As many people are pointing out, it looked last night like we had consumed.

Me in particular. Thank you all for that. Several pizzas last night. I also enjoyed the part where you guys did the picture, obviously all wearing the hats, and then you were shown on TV, and A-Dog's hat mysteriously disappeared. We were switching hats.

We only had three hats for the four people in attendance. We had to switch hats. We were rotating hats. A-Dog always has a costume change in the intermissions. Yeah, that's true. Laddie did get invited to the game, by the way. I couldn't make it. What were you doing?

I was calling a hockey game of my own. And how did that go? The Ice Hawks won 5-4 in overtime. They blew a two-goal lead in the final minute, but they won it in overtime. How was your OT call? I can probably pull it up. Not right now, but I can grab it for you.

No, it's okay. Just tell me. Oh, you want to imitate call? I can probably pull it up. Not right now, but I can grab it for you. No, it's okay. Just tell me. Oh, you want to imitate it? I said he scored. Hey, he's played his calls before. They're good. Brady Lenton went end-to-end. Did it himself. Is that how you called it? No, it's not. A little more emotion

when I call it. And he's skating in, and he scores the goal, and they win the game. Okay, so this hour of this program is brought to you by Jason Hominick from Jason.Mortgage. If you love paying too much for your mortgage, then don't let Jason shop around to find the perfect mortgage for you. The Porfick Mergage.

I speak good English. Yes, card read. Porfick Mergage. That's Jason.Mortgage. The Porfick Mergage. I repeat, Jason.Mortgage. Are you looking for the perfect mortgage? I had the perfect show prior to this. You didn't.

Now it's all... You screwed up, Ronnie. Oh, yeah. You're having a terrible show. I'm having honestly a bad show. So I'm going to pose a question to you guys and listeners. Was that last night the first game that miller and pd both played well well it wasn't saturday's game in or against the edmonton oilers because pd played well and

miller might have had his worst game of the season that was probably both guys ended up with multi point outings yeah um, I would say so. Which is nice because this many games into the season we haven't had that yet. Despite that, the Canucks are still 8-3-3. So it's good. That's a good thing. Look, everyone knows that if PD can find his game

and they've got JT Miller and they've got Bluger on the third line. The Canucks down the middle are feeling pretty good about their game. And then on the back end, you've got Quinn Hughes and Hronik and yeah, there might be some issues with the bottom four.

Although I did think some guys on the bottom four played well yesterday. Tyler Myers, I thought, played well. Branstrom, of course, had a golden assist. Thought he played well. And then the goaltending, we're still waiting on Demko. And, Laddie, I have a question for you. If Demko returns and for whatever reason,

he's not the same goalie, or if he can't play on the, on this injury, let's just go worst case scenario with Demko. Okay. How comfortable would you feel with Lankanen going into the playoffs? Now we're not, none of us are hoping that this happens,

but you know, someone texted in and said, do you think Lankanen will be on the Finnish Four Nations team? I was like, yeah. There really aren't a ton of great Finnish goalies in the league right now. There's a great history of Finnish goalies in the NHL, but right now there aren't a ton of them, and I think he would be on that team.

His old goalie partner was probably one of them, Saros. Yeah, Saros will be the starter. Right. Right? But Lankanen might be the backup. Who are the other options out there? Ugo Pekalukanen. Ugo Pekalukanen.

Eustace Ananen. It's not the same list that we would have had. Yoel Blomkvist. Early 2000s when you had every Finnish goalie in the league. Yeah, I saw a few Kipper jerseys uh at the game last night they still love Kippersoft to answer your question I would be quite confident with Lankan because I feel like just from having him watch the 10 or so games that he's played in he fits the system he fits Rick Tockett's style pretty well and he doesn't need to be making flashy saves and that's kind of a good sign in my eyes is the fact that you don't rely on your goalie as much.

Yes, he's been great when called upon, but I think just the style of his play fits in so well with what the Canucks are doing. Tuckett loves Lankanen. He speaks positively about him and glowingly about him every time he's brought up. And part of it is because Lankanen may have saved his season because if he wasn't there and Silovs was in net,

we're having a very different conversation. Coaches know this too. Yeah. A lot of their reputation hinges on their goaltender. Who's the teacher's pet? Edie. I'll tell you who it's not.

Edie. I'll tell you who it's not. Quinn Hughes. That's a great question. You know who? Baines. He loves Baines. He does like Baines a lot.

He likes Baines a lot. I think he likes his stories. It's not his stories. Baines? He loves Baines. He does like Baines a lot. He likes Baines a lot. I think he likes his stories. It's not his stories. Baines tells great stories. He likes his story. Yeah. And I think he likes the guys that want to go out there and do well for the team, you know, and do the things.

And he was talking, and we played the clip of Taka talking about Lekermackie, and he was talking and we played the the clip of talk it talking about leckermacky and he used the word like he's got a conscience yep where if we need him in a spot from what i've seen he's going to be in that spot and one of the things he talked about was the third man high you know oftentimes if you're a goal scorer you're not really thinking about being the third man high because you want to get in there and you want to get the puck and you want to be around the net but sometimes if you got two forwards deep you got to remember oh yeah i'm the high guy on this and i gotta i gotta be responsible and if the puck turns over to the other team and they break

out i don't want them going out on a three-on-two. I'm going to be back with the two defensemen. I think he likes guys that are coachable and reliable, and I think when you listen to that answer, it really was funny. I know I already said this, but it's funny that Daniel Sprung was just traded and there was a guy who by the way I only noticed in the third period when I was like wait a minute is that Kuzmenko and he took a penalty he was out there that was a guy that just was not on board with what

Talkit wanted and there are all sorts of people that were like Talkits you know they don't let these guys be creative or whatever I'm like oh, oh, are the Flames letting Kuzmetko be creative right now? Because he's not really doing much for them. When you are the coach, sometimes, yes, you can be too stubborn. And that can be a fault of coaches. And they're so focused on their system that they don't let their players play. I don't think Tokic's like that. I think he just has some things where

he's like, hey guys, there are some basics and fundamentals that we need you to do, and no one on this team is above the system. And he often says, if you want to be above the system, you better score like 60 goals a game. He's a big 60 goal guy. Or 60 goals a season. Big 60. 60 goals a game is crazy. 60 goals a game would be crazy. big 60 or 60 goals a season. Big 60, you know, 60 goals a game is crazy. 60 goals a game would be crazy. You would not have to play the system. A lot of people have texted in astutely. I might add that Connor Garland might be in the teacher's pet conversation as

well. I got time for that. You know, who's not. And who is someone that we spoke about earlier and we should have brought this dynamic up when discussing him. Nils Hoaglander. I don't want to go back and relitigate everything we said in hour one.

You can download the podcast, by the way. Apple, Google, Spotify, hour one is up there. But we did dive into the conversation of if the Canucks are going to trade from a surplus, the forwards, to fill a deficit, the blue line, Hoeglander makes sense. And part of that, which we didn't discuss in the opening hour, is that never really felt that there's been congruency between him and Tockett.

He's never seemed like he's Tockett's favorite player. Whenever the whip comes out to kind of admonish someone, it's often Hoaglander that gets it. I don't think Tockett likes Hoaglander up the lineup. Nope. And he said a few times, I like Hoagie's game when he's on the fourth line. And I kind of agree because I think he plays a

more gritty grinding style and he's, he's forechecking and. Which is great. No, but, but like, and then, and then he says, he said, this is talking, he thinks that his game sometimes changes when he goes into the top six. I think that's a fairly astute observation from the head coach. And I don't think it's like a selfish thing or anything.

I think it's a natural thing that when you're playing with more offensive players and you're playing more minutes you might feel like you need to change some things and some alterations to your game but here's the thing hoaglander last night plays nine minutes and 23 seconds largely in a fourth line role energy guy which is fine except you don't pay those guys three million dollars a year to do that he probably could be a more um like dollars to output appropriate guy in another system with another role with a coach who says go do some of the things that make you a former 20 goal scorer in this league again i'm not advocating a trade i like the guy a lot i think that if he stuck around he would be a very valuable

contributor for this team for the entirety of the season, and he'd have an opportunity hopefully to correct some of the mistakes that he made in the playoffs last year. That being said, there's a difference between advocating for something and reading the tea leaves and doing it in a fair

and honest way. And if you look at it, it makes sense. As you pointed out in hour one, he has cost certainty. He's relatively young. There's probably some upside there. He's got a reputation around the league because he did score a lot of goals

at even strength last year. And it was spoken about at length. I don't think he's getting you a top four defenseman straight up, though. I don't think so either. But if you're talking about taking away from an area of surplus, like I said earlier

add another wrinkle to this you are also removing some of the log jam that's going to happen when joshua comes back and when vesser comes back because at a certain point you're going to have too many forwards on this team you're going to have either a guy in the press box or the guy in the american league that don't deserve to be there or have done enough to prove that they should be in the nhl playing with more regularity i wonder how i wonder how besser felt about seeing leckermacky out there on the first unit power play in his spot he's talking mentioned it i'll say this talk it brought it straight up in the, in the post game. Do we have it?

Can you try and find the audio from the daily clip yesterday? It's a 13 second clip where he's talking about like her Mackey and said, I saw some Besser like things last night. And to me, and talk and went on to say is like, I think this guy could replace Brock Besser when we don't sign him. I was like, wow. Talk.

It said the quiet part out loud. Just for libel purposes. He didn't say that. He didn't say that. We'll play the audio. But it was interesting because it dovetails perfectly into the conversation we've had really since training camp. Here's the audio from Rick Tuckett yesterday about Lekker Mackey and his Besser-like qualities. We'll pick it up on the other side. Yeah, there's some spots there that it's and his Besser-like qualities. We'll pick it up on the other side. Yeah, there's some spots

there that it's almost like Besser-like. You know, I think when Brock starts feeling better, I think he can help him out, work with him a little bit because there's some spots there that he knows where to go and if you give him that shot, he's going to score. Besser's like, I'm not doing that. Yeah, he's going to be like, Jonathan,

you know what Target reallygett really loves? Turnovers of the blue line. Rip it high and wide every time. I noticed that one turnover you had of the blue line and Tog loves that stuff. So just keep doing that. High risk plays in transition. Dangling the puck.

Loves all those things. Drop passes. Gotta do drop passes. Never forecheck. Never forecheck. So to the original point, how would Besser feel about it? I mean, part of him has to understand that it's a business.

Everybody has a replacement in some way, shape, or form except a handful of guys. There's no replacement for Conor McDavid. There's no replacement for a handful of very high-end elite guys. But every organization, they've got guys, or they've got an idea of how they could fill a gap or fill a hole. And then when the player is either too elite or his absence is too large, they're like, ah, we're screwed.

But that's it. He's probably feeling uncertain about his future right now because, well, his future is uncertain right now. He doesn't have a contract extension. There wasn't one negotiated in the offseason, and the management seems to be slow playing this a little bit. And it is interesting that they've pushed to have Lekermackie up so aggressively. They're slow playing Besser and fast playing Lekermackie.

Is that fair to say? That's 100% fair to say. Yeah. I mean, the decision could have been very easily, I might add, that you keep Lekker-Mackie

with Abbotsford where he's playing well and gaining confidence and learning things about the North American game and you bump Sprong up for a little while. It could have happened.

That was the whole point of actually getting Daniel Sprong, I think, was if we got a top six forward with offensive punch that goes down to injury, we've got a reasonable facsimile. Granted, he doesn't have the defensive responsibilities, but he can score. And I'm sure Sprong was probably thinking the exact same thing

when Besser got hurt. And their decision was, Sprong, you're out of here. You're going to Seattle for future considerations, and we're pulling Lekker or Mackey up right away. Snoop the dog texts in to the Dunbar Lumber text line. And just a reminder, if you want to send your what we learns or any old text, 650-650

is the Dunbar Lumber text line. The Bridge Street Dunbar Lumber in Ladner has moved to Progress Way in Tilbury's Industrial Park. More room, more product, more awesome. Details at DunbarLumber.com. Snoop the Dog texts in, is moving out log jams like Daniel Sprong an important part of being able to sign fringe veterans in the offseason?

They can sign with Vancouver knowing management will try and find them a new home if they can't crack the roster instead of parking them in the NHL. Yeah, I think, um, you know, that's certainly the way the Canucks, uh, spun it. And I have no doubt that, you know, that's the way it went down. Look at the log jam in Vancouver right now. And I think they went to Daniel Sprung and they said, listen, this isn't going to work. Okay. So we're going to send you to some place where

you've had success and, you know, hopefully you'll do better then and there. And Daniel Sprung is not such a great player that you're worried about moving him within the division or anything like that. I do think it's important to be known as an organization that wants the best for its players, wants the players to succeed in Vancouver first and foremost. But if it's not going to be with that organization, they're not going to act spiteful.

They're going to think of the player first. I mean, in his remarks, you know, Alvin did kind of hedge that way, right? That's what he was talking about. He would feel he deserves an elevated spot in the lineup, and he was able to get it elsewhere. And he went to a Seattle team, which it feels like Seattle's got this issue every year where they need more goal scoring and they need more offensive punch. And they're just waiting for guys to shake loose.

He's getting a better opportunity there. I think the Sprong thing, it's funny because when this season's all said and done, he's going to be a very inconsequential part of the story. He's going to be a footnote, if anything. But he's going to be an instructive lesson because it follows in the footsteps of kuzmenko mikhayev and everyone else that this organization brought in identified as someone they might like quickly realized it wasn't going to work out and depending on the player quickly moved them on didn't let it try and you know solve itself or they they asked talk it play him and see what you think and then talk and play

them and he's like nope and they're like okay we're gonna move on from this right so and it's the third instance of it under this manager group where they corrected their own error and it's you know i don't want to call it a self-inflicted wound but they tried something they didn't work they were quick to pivot off it and there wasn't any great drama or anything behind it it's like we thought it would work it't work. We're going to give them an opportunity somewhere else. Dave in Poco texts in, what are your thoughts on Pugh-Suter with JT Miller on the second line? Well, it's either the first line

or the second line. It doesn't really matter. But Suter with JT Miller, I like it. I think it works. And, you know, you hear players, and we were talking about Suter a couple of days ago, and we were kind of laughing because first talk it says, you know, he's not the fastest guy in

the world, but he's a smart player. And then Garland said, yeah, he may not be the fastest guy in the world, but he's a smart guy. And what Garland said was, I think, really instructive. I know where he's going to be on the ice. And this is, again, getting back to being in positions on the ice where your teammates need you. And what Rick Talkett would say, and he said it last night, playing predictable hockey. And that kind of sounds bad, right? Oh, they're playing so predictable out there. I mean, what's

the, what's a word that people often use to describe a power play that's struggling? So predictable. We know what's coming. But in this case, it just means you're playing the system and you are not breaking the fundamentals. You're not breaking the rules. Simple things like third man high. If two guys are in on the four check, stay high. And then also in the offensive zone, just going to the center of the ice, which Soudou does, and getting into those soft spots,

finding the shooting positions. Because I don't know if you've noticed, but Connor Garland makes an unbelievable backhand pass from down low. Like, that thing is patented at this point. I think he did it again last night. You know, he's so good at winning puck battles down low, below the goal line often,

and then just whipping a backhand out to a guy in front of the net. Well, the most important thing there is that someone is there, you know, to, to get the pass and they're in a shooting position and they can get a shot away quickly. Suter seems like that type of guy where, you know, again, not the fastest guy in the world, but he doesn't waste time out there.

Yeah. You know, like he's like, I got to be here. I'm going to be here. He's not going to, he's going to take a straight line to get there and he's going to find the key spots. Now, whether Suter fits as a winger long-term, I don't know. Again, we're talking about this log jam with, you know, on the wings and Dakota Joshua is going to be back soon, possibly on Thursday. And then hopefully Brock Besser is

back soon. It might ideally be that Suter is the fourth line center, and maybe he gets to play with a guy like Hoaglander and they can be a good line together. But I love the versatility that Suter provides. I'm still not sure that Ratu is a positive on the fourth line for them. I still need to see a bit more from Ratu. I think, I mean, again. He's good in the draws, but you've got to be more than good in the draws i i think there's i to provide more clarity than you're not sure like i'm pretty sure that once besser and joshua were back suitor goes right back to the middle it's the most logical

move probably but like the thing is like suitor always seems to work there yeah i know you know it's like it's like are we are we ignoring the fact that he's actually a pretty good winger? In the top six? I just think that the drop-off there to whoever it would be, let's say one of the incoming guys or someone that gets a bump up the lineup, is less than the upgrade that they'd get for having Ratu as a fourth-line center and then dropping it. If you go down the middle, Miller, Pettersson, Bluger, Suter,

you're happy. You're more than happy. You're very, very solid down the middle, one through four. I like that Ratu has some size and stiffness to him. I just, I don't know. I mean, I know he's worked on his skating, but I don't know if it's quite there. At any rate, I don't want to pick on him.

He's been a great story. He's come along and maybe he ups his game more any rate, I don't want to pick on him. He's been a great story. He's come along, and maybe he ups his game more. No, we don't want to pick on anyone, because according to Andrew and Victoria, we're already picking on Hoaglander and Besser in the same segment. I apologize, Andrew. Let's pick on Andrew. An hour of soccer talk coming up.

When the information isn't specifically curtailed to his wants and needs, he gets angry, like a little baby. So we we're gonna go into the final hour of the program uh randy jan is gonna join us at 8 and then we're gonna do what we learned at 8 30 reminder to get yours in don barlamer text line is 650 650 you are listening to the halford and brough show on sportsnet 650