Halford & Brough in the Morning - Quinn Hughes Still Leads The Canucks In Points

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

In hour one, Brough and guest host Josh Elliott-Wolfe look back at a busy weekend in sports, they discuss Saturday's disappointing Canucks home loss to the Sharks (3:00), plus they chat about how Team Canada has looked at the World Juniors thus far with FloHockey Content Manager & NHL prospects expert Chris Peters (24:32). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

You're listening to Halford and Brough Dan-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-na. You're listening to Halford and Brough. Sam gets hit as he throws. Ball is caught near side. Barner 5. Touchdown! Seahawks!

Great job by Sam Darnold. Alan. looks he's back he's firing and it is incomplete the Eagles win he threw a pass for Shakir and it wasn't even close it's not good enough so um deserve what uh deserve the outcome good morning welcome to halford and bruff still know mike halver he's still on vacation so you got me josh elli wolf filling in but the rest of the cast and crew are back including jason bruff good morning jason good morning how are you doing buddy it's been a while This is if we work together.

Yeah, I know. I missed you so much. I'm doing great. Good morning, A-Dog. You missed him? You really missed him? I really missed him so much. That's what I just said.

He's lying. Yeah, I think he's being polite. Being very polite. That's the goal. Good morning, Laddie. Welcome back. Hello, hello. Halford and Brough is brought to you by Sands and Associates.

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All right. What are we doing on the show today? You're driving the bus, young man. Yes. It's a heavy show today. Four guests, including Chris Peters, who starts it off at 630 content manager for Flohockey. We will get into the world juniors in Canada. They won both their games over the weekend, and there are no concerns from anyone at all. They look terrific. Everyone's super cool with them.

I actually think they need more little cute fancy passes. That's more of them, right? Because we didn't see enough of them against Latvia. So we'll ask Chris about that. Can they do even more fancy passes that don't lead to any goals? Yeah, that's the, that's the, recipe. And then, uh, well, I also want to talk about, uh, McKenna versus Stenberg because I feel like McKenna's, he's getting the, the hype, but I still want to

see more from Gavin McKenna. I think we all do. Uh, seven o'clock, we're going to talk to Mike Teneer, writer, editor, founder of the two deep zone about week 17 in the NFL setting up, uh, three very, very big games over week 18, including one, the Seattle Seahawks will be involved in against the San Francisco 49ers for the division and the number one seed in the NFC, a huge game that will not be on Sunday night. It will be on Saturday night. So we'll talk to Mike Tenier about that

and everything else that went on over the weekend. 7.30 in Furness, host on Sports Radio KJR in Seattle, TV studio host for the Cracken. The Vancouver Canucks play game tonight against the Seattle Cracken, who I often forget exists. They beat the flyers last night though They did

And they're technically by Drance Points Percentage in a playoff spot right now Are they really? They are In the final wild card I don't know It's been a weird season for the Seattle Crack The division is no Bueno

Yeah and then at 8 o'clock We'll talk to Saty R Shaw I know him from Canucks Central About everything going on With the Vancouver Canucks Including a loss over the weekend So working in reverse 8 o'clock Sati Rorschah

7.30, Infernes, 7 o'clock Mike De Nere, and 6.30 Chris Peters. That's what's happening on the show. Laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No. No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was.

We know how busy your life can be. What happened? Missed it? You missed that? What happened? What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in terms. tools, resources, and safety training.

Visit BCCSA.ca. We will start with the Vancouver Canucks who fell to the youthful, fun, full of energy. San Jose Sharks, 6 to 3, the first time since 2019 that the Canucks have lost at Rogers Arena to the San Jose Sharks. 6-3, Maclin Celebrini,

looked pretty good, and the Canucks, the bump, the post-Quinn-Hughes, trade bump where they won four in a row. It is now over. Yeah, which was a bit of a PDO bender as well, too. They were getting the bounces and getting the saves and a lot of their shots were going in against San Jose. You know, they weren't good. And Adam Foote said before the game that the Canucks needed to start playing better at home. And then after the game, he said they weren't ready to play. So when your head coach

before the game says we got to improve our home record we've been not good at Rogers Arena and after the game says we weren't ready to play I'm kind of mad at everyone for that the Canucks fell to

411 and 1 at home with that sluggish loss to the San Jose sharks Elias Pedersen returned to the lineup and looked I don't know okay I guess no points but he looked fine they didn't

whatever it wasn't close to matching what Celebrini did for the sharks and, you know, Celebrini is probably going to go to the Olympics with Team Canada. He's only 19 years old. Terrific hockey player, Ray Ferraro during the broadcast, kept comparing him to Sidney Crosby, and it was hard to disagree with Ray on that take. Now, Connoughts fans, as usual,

are in a bit of a weird spot where they're fighting amongst each other. That doesn't happen. Yeah, no, it does. Believe it or not, it happens. I was unaware. Yeah, yeah, sometimes on social media. media, which I participated in yesterday and talked later about how to go you know what you know what it went pretty well I don't I don't do I don't go on social media that often anymore and go on rent you do but I took the gloves off yesterday so here's something I want to discuss

if losses are a good thing for the Canucks because you want to get a good draft position right this year. And most people have given up on the hope of making the playoffs. Why are people like myself still frustrated with the performance on Saturday? And I think it starts with this idea that the Canucks are going to attempt this hybrid rebuild, where yes, they will trade their pending UFAs because that's just common sense. And they can start doing that anything. time soon. But here's the thing. It also sounds like

they want to keep a lot of their veterans and a lot of those guys were playing against San Jose. So you're like, why do you want to keep these guys? And that includes both goalies, according to Thomas Dranswood, he's been reporting, both Demko and Lankan and the way Drance described it in the athletic. This is a very Drantz sentence

so just bear with me for a sec. The Canucks intend to mute the usual competitive urgency, which means trying so hard to win, that has underpinned so many organizational mistakes across the past 10 years, and keep an eye on the future while avoiding a total tear down and maintaining a robust base of veteran players

as mentors for their younger, pieces. I think it should be noted that the Canucks are a relatively healthy team right now. They're still missing Heidel, Bluger, and Forburt. Heedle's been out on the ice, so maybe he's a few weeks away. Good to hear that he's feeling better. But as mentioned, Elias Pedersen is back and Demko has been starting a bunch of games, including Saturdays. And they're still laying massive eggs at home against teams like San Jose. So why a hybrid rebuild? What is is the argument to keep these veterans who are more likely to depreciate in value than appreciate? Is it to maintain the culture? To avoid losing? Okay, but what culture exactly?

And they're already losing. Like, what is the, why is there this, this desire from the Canucks to keep these veterans that they already have under contract? You can bring in, veterans. You can bring in veterans to help out the young kids. You can bring in guys, give them one or two year contracts. They can be affordable. They can be good guys. They can be good in the room. Maybe they're a little bit older, so they're not quite as good as on the ice, but they're good in the room and they can teach the young guys. You know, one guy I want to talk about, well, there's a couple guys I want to talk about. And, you know, one of them is Brock Besser. He had a really quiet game offensively speaking.

I couldn't believe he was one of the guys out there on the five on three penalty kill, but that's another topic for another day. I know it's been hard for Brock ever since J.T. was traded. He's played a lot with David Kompf this season, and that's not a playmaking center. He hasn't shown much with Pedersen or Rossi either. I guess he's been out there with Sasan a little bit too. And this is one of those veterans I'm talking about. But what purpose, what purpose is Besser going to serve the Canucks over the next few years?

We all remember last season when it looked like he was gone in free agency. The Canucks tried to sign some other guys, weren't able to do it, and then decided the last minute to bring Besser back. So clearly they weren't terrified of losing him. Now they might be stuck with him. Is keeping Besser going to drive the culture to a better place? Brock is by no means a bad guy or bad teammate, but is he going to be worth the? this contract, what is he going to bring to the team?

If it's scoring, then he needs to start scoring more. The other guy is Jake DeBresk, who is apparently going to be a healthy scratch tonight against the Seattle Cracken. I mean, where are you, Josh, with this idea of the hybrid rebuild? And do you think that means that they're going to keep a lot of these guys that they have under contract? I mean, it seems like it. In terms of where I'm at with it, I mean, I don't. don't support it. I don't love it, especially because as you mentioned, we see these guys and

we've seen them for a while not have much success in Vancouver. And if you're looking for reasons to be like, okay, as Alvin said, we can retool it with a little bit of a hybrid form, which is wild to say. I just don't see, to your point, what you're building on with these players specifically at the moment. And I also think that there's this, this, uh, hunger or willingness from the fan base at this specific moment where if you went and you said, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna go. We're gonna try to trade as many of these, uh, veteran pieces as we can. Over the next few months into the summer, see what we can get for them, get as many picks, as many prospects as possible. It feels like they're afraid to do that because they're

afraid, A, of what the fans are going to think, be probably what ownership is going to think. Season ticket base? Yeah. And to me, for most of the fan base, I think they would welcome it with open arms and having exciting young players playing at Rogers Arena, even if they're playing during losses, if they're doing exciting things and you can see the roadmap to being successful, I think fans will buy in. But right now, the roadmap to being successful, especially if they don't move

any of these veterans. I just, I don't see the roadmap. And I, the, the frustrating thing, I think the most frustrating thing in all of this is that I think if they, not even fully committed, like half committed, traded two or three of Alias Patterson, Connor Garland, Brock Besser, Jake DeBrest, Thatcher, Demko, and you got a picks or prospects back, I think that would be enough combined with trading, depending UFAs, that in a few years, we'd look at this team and be like, man, they had a bunch of picks, they had a bunch of prospects. a few years ago, now look where they are. I just wanted to talk about what the Canucks are missing right now.

And this might be obvious to some people, but not so obvious, apparently, to others. Because if the goal is to win a Stanley Cup, okay, God, you need great players. You need game changers. game breakers and this is what I tweeted out after the Sharks game except for Demko you can't stay healthy

there's not a single game breaker under contract for the Vancouver Canucks right now there's no true number one center unless you know

PD decides once in a while to be a number one center but he hasn't for a while that'd be cool there's no true top winger there's there's no you know like they got wingers they have a lot of complimentary wingers that aren't complimenting much at the moment

like when you think of top wingers in the NHL you think uh I don't know past Pasternak or uh Kutrov Kutrov or even Marner in Vegas they don't have one of those there's no true number one defenseman Philip Peronix's a good player but he's not he's not gonna be in the Norse conversation ever

and you know Zeev Buhiam might be one day but I mean look you don't you don't get these guys that easily you just don't Zeev Buyam if he can be as good as Philip Pironic that's a win

you know that that's an absolute win so you don't have any of those key position players and you know if you do have a number one goalie that number one goalie can't be trusted to stay healthy as much as he hates that narrative it's been true for the last little while. So good luck with the hybrid rebuild.

And how are you going to get those guys? The way to get them, unfortunately, is through the draft. It's very rare to get them in a trade, which is why the Quinn Hughes story was so big around the league. It was like, oh my God, this actual Norris trophy winning defenseman is available. Yeah. This is crazy.

This never happens. I shouldn't say never because, you know, Jack Eichael was traded to Vegas, so that was a number one center. But like, it's rare. And most of the time you're thinking, okay, we got to rely on the draft. So how are they going to get these guys?

And it's not just enough to get one of them, right? Like you need, if you think about that 2011 team that the Canucks had, they had Henrik Seneen who won the Hart trophy, right? Annie won the Art Ross, I believe. Daniel Seneen won the Art Ross

trophy. So there is your number one center and there is your elite winger, right? They were a package deal. You had Ryan Custler who won the Selke trophy as your number two. Now, they didn't have a Norris trophy winning defensemen, but their blue line was deep

and they had a first ballot Hall of Fame goalie. It was awesome. And it still wasn't good enough because you went up against a team that had a Bergeron who's a first ballot Hall of Famer and Charra who's a first ballot Hall of Famer defenseman, right?

And Tim Thomas, who played like a first ballot Hall of Famer. Like, that's the bar. And I know I say that too much on the show for the regular listeners. I'm like, the bar is high. But sometimes I feel like the bar has been lowered so far in Vancouver that we forget

all the great players, all the great players that you need, plus you need the supporting players in order to legitimately compete for a Stanley Cup. A few years ago, it looked like the connects were kind of almost there. You know, PD looked like a legit number one center. And then you had J.T. Miller who was, you know, some people who said, he's the number one center. And you could kick him off to the wing, too, if you needed it. Brock Besser was an all-star. And Brock Besser with a guy like J.T. Miller played even better. And you had Quinn Hughes, number one defenseman. You had Thatcher Demko in goal. Well, all that has kind of fallen apart because Miller's not here anymore Hughes isn't here anymore

PD's not here anymore and Thatcher Dempco can't be trusted to stay healthy so you got to start again like you can't you can't salvage what is here well and it should be obvious when you trade Quinn Hughes right like that should be the the first signal and the the main signal like okay this didn't work the air is over and you can keep trying to cobble together whatever you once over the next few years, whether it's, you know, hoping that Elias Pedersen is going to bounce back or betting on these veteran players that you did resign over the summer and extend over the summer and you can keep trying to add around the edges. But to your point, it's like, it does feel like you just need to commit and find a way to get meaningful impact players.

And the only way that's going to happen is via the draft and the only way you're going to give yourself as many shots at the can, as many kicks at the can as possible, is by trading some of these guys who are locked up long term. And not only that, like, you also got to think about when you're going to be competitive and when you're going to be in an actual window. And if those guys fit within that, and for someone like that, Dr. Demko, I'm kind of at the point where, and Connor Garland, maybe Jake DeBrusk falls in that too, where they're 29, 30 years old, where I'm looking at this team three years from now at minimum. is when they're going to be actually competitive.

And I kind of don't believe that those guys are going to be meaningful impact players three years from now. Or at the very least, I don't think they're going to be more impactful than whatever you get back in a trade for those players. Yeah. And so weighing those things out, like, it's just, it's so, it's frustrating for us. It's frustrating for fans to look at what this team is doing and go,

like, we see them spinning their tires in the mud, and they just keep going out. we're going to keep spinning a little bit more and eventually we'll get out and it's just it's not it's not happening yeah you have to wait for the toe yeah wait for the tow truck and sometimes you have to call the tow truck yeah and they're not doing that um um celebrini was fun to watch though he was man is he good and i was thinking watching that game and you know i think most of us generally is figure he's going to be on that team i don't know about badard but i think Celebrini's... The injury might have came to the Dard's chances.

The Blackhawks have fallen apart. Yeah. But I was thinking about the Ford group that Canada is going to have at the Olympics in Italy. And I know we're all rightly worried about the goaltending. And, like, I don't think their blue line is as good as it's been in the past. When you look at the group that they had in 2010 here in Vancouver, I mean, that was incredible. That might have been the best blue line ever assembled.

But Canada's forward group, this might be the best forward group ever assembled in international hockey. It's going to be insane when you've got McDavid, McKinnon, Crosby, and Celebrini leading the way. I know people will be upset if Bedard doesn't make the team, but if Canada can't score at this tournament, It won't be because they don't have Bedard, right? It'll be because a team with McDavid-McCannon, Crosby, and Celebrini somehow can't score. Plus, a lot of other really great players, some first ballot hall of famers in the mix there. Again, I know that a forward group is not going to, you need more than just a forward group, you need a really stout blue line.

And I am looking at that blue line and going, yeah, that's good. but it's not as good as ones in the past and the goal turning, I guess Logan Thompson's going to be the starting goalie so we'll see how he does if the coaching staff believes in them. It would be crazy if they don't bring them at this point. But this forward group is insane. Yeah.

Can you imagine you're in the American shoes or the Swedish shoes and you're like, how do we shut all these guys down? Like McDavid gets off the ice and it's like, oh, a break. Oh, great. And then McKinnon flies on there. And you're like, oh, my God.

And then, all right, okay, we got all our checkers out against these guys. And then Celebrini and Sid come out the door. You know, it is incredible. And I cannot wait for these Olympics. I think they're going to be awesome. And don't forget, it's December 29th today. So December 31st, New Year's Eve is when Canada makes the roster announcement. Just a couple days away.

We will talk about Team Canada. not at the Olympics, at the World Juniors. Coming up next, we'll talk to Chris Peters about their first two games, because over the weekend, Canada, opened the tournament with a 7-5 win against Chequia on Boxing Day, and then they follow it up with a narrow 2-1 win in overtime against Latvia that did get some people riled up on the Internet. So we'll talk to Chris Peters about that and the rest of the tournament as well.

And also, Braden Coots, who hasn't played too much, in the first couple of games at the World Juniors. Before we go, Canucks, Game Day is brought to you by Panago. Game Day, the Panago way to get any large pizza plus cheesy bread for only 2499. Use code Canucks at Panago.com. Panic, go for it. Restrictions may apply. It is Alfred and Brough, no-how for Josh Elliott-Wolf filling in on SportsNet 650.

It's Canucks Central on SportsNet 650. From exclusive interviews to insider scoops and post-game break, We've got it all. Tune in weekdays, 4 to 6 p.m. on radio and on demand through your favorite podcast app. Welcome back to Halpert and Brough, Josh L.A. Wolf, Philling for Mike Halpert this week. We are coming to you live from the Kintech Studio, and you can text in 650, 650 is the Dumbar Lumber Tax Line Metro Vancouver's trusted choice for contractors and rent-a-war warriors for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at Dumbar lumber.com and Halpernabruff is brought to you by Sands and Associates. Only a licensed insolvency trustee can cut your debt by up to 80% with no upfront fees.

To learn how, visit Sands dash trustee. And we go to the phone line now. We welcome in Chris Peters, content manager, for Flow Hockey. I appreciate you taking the time, Chris. There's a little bit of panic up north right now about what's going on with Team Canada after the first couple games at the World Juniors. Do you think that is a warranted panic? Well, you know, I think a little panic's okay.

You know, it certainly has not been the start that anyone expected. obviously having trouble in two games for different reasons is never a great thing. I think this team has been together for a few weeks now, and I still don't know that we're a ton closer to seeing them play in their best game yet. And so that's always something that can happen in this tournament. Maybe it takes a little longer to gel. A lot of guys playing in positions that maybe aren't as natural to them. I mean, that's going to happen anytime you're at a World Junior,

roles are different and all those different things. But, you know, I think that there's, there's, there's, something isn't clicking at the moment. And I, I think that's been kind of interesting to watch. You got to give Latvia and check your credit too. I think teams at this tournament have gotten better, you know, that there's, you know, Sweden has struggled in some of their games as well. They had a really tight game with Switzerland. You know, we've seen the U.S. kind of have some up and down starts here.

So, you know, I think a lot of the countries have gotten better. So you need a little bit more. But the one thing I do think is, you know, a lot of people, there's a lot of buzz about this team kind of coming in about, you know, how it was the best team they've had in a few years. And I don't necessarily know that we've seen that team yet. So that's something that the coaching staff is going to kind of have to try to figure out. And I think the players are certainly going to have to find a way to play better than they have.

I think Denmark tonight is an opportunity to reset and maybe build some momentum, but you've got to really get things together before you play Finland on New Year's Eve. Chris, I've got to say my old man was really coming out watching that game against Latvia because I was yelling at the TV like, too many fancy passes and things like that. And it's, you know, I grew up watching Canada physically dominate at the world. juniors. And I realize the game has changed since then. But I guess my question is if Canada isn't going to physically dominate these world juniors anymore and these teams are willing to stand up physically to them, how can Canada, like what should Canada's identity be then? Because so

far I've seen it's a lot of like fancy passes and, you know, and certainly in the Czechia game and even on the Latvia goal, some pretty shaky defending. yeah that is that has definitely been a theme so far um and you know we talked about last year's team in the blue line not having enough offense and now maybe this year's has too much i don't know you know it's kind of it's kind of funny how it works out yeah a lot of guys that move puck's really well um a lot of guys that want to jump into the play and you know against a team like check you that was way more dangerous you know that was not necessarily a winning strategy it worked out because The one thing that I'll say is that this team does have enough talent that that

Cheki game was just an example of. They just had a little more talent and Chequy it didn't get the goal tending. And that really was the difference in that game. And so, you know, and I think you come up with a good point there and that there, what is the identity of this team? And we haven't figured that out yet. You know, I think that that's, and yes, there has been a little bit of too many fancy passes.

Maybe you need to kind of get more, you know, north-south, get a little. little more traffic in front, you know, maybe get some shots from the inside. I mean, I don't know how many shin pads they hit against Latvia, but it might have been in the triple digits, you know? So it's just kind of one of those things where, you know, you've got to find ways to get to the interior. And that's true. Any world juniors, whether you're on big ice, small ice, whatever, you got to win the game between the dots. And right now, Canada hasn't done that. And, you know, to your point about, you know, them not physically dominating teams. You know, I know that, you know, this team has kind of had that they've

want people to fear them. That has kind of been a trend over the last few years, whether it's USA, Sweden, Finland, you know, any of the big teams, countries like Latvia, Czechia, Slovakia, they don't fear these teams anymore. They believe they can win. And in a lot of cases, they're, they're warranted in that belief. So, you know, I think this team needs to focus a little bit less on trying to, you know, intimidate guys during the warm-ups and other things like that and just play hockey and certainly you know some better defending is probably the right foundation to find to kind of build your team going forward and kind of build from the net out and just be better in all facets and might start

with being a little bit more responsible defensively yeah the pregame intimidation tactics ring a little bit hollow when you're actually the ones that's that are getting hit pretty hard in some of the games i thought the the check players especially stood up physically to Canada and the Latvians like you said I mean they weren't afraid to block shots and it just seemed like Canada couldn't figure

out how to break Latvia down and I'm fascinated to see how Gavin McKenna progresses in this tournament because there's no question he's got amazing vision he really does like you can see how great a passer he is but

can he beat guys one-on-one Can he break down a team that checks hard? That was a whole idea, in case I'm mistaken here, behind going to the NCAA this year, playing against bigger, stronger guys and maybe a bit more of a defensive environment and see how he does. What do you think about Gavin McKenna,

what you've seen so far and what he's going to need to do in this tournament if Canada is going to be successful? Yeah, what I've seen, what I've seen so far is a lot of what I've seen all year, and that is a lot of perimeter play. And I think that that has been a note from a lot of the scouts as well on why, you know, there is a trend that he is not going to be number one

on a lot of boards right now. And that is that, and he's getting his points, you know, he's making an impact for Canada. But we just talked about how you need to win this game between the dots. and that's not an area where he really plays. And now as a wing, you know, maybe you're going to be outside a bit more, and that's fine. He's not going to drive the net.

But at the same time, you know, there's just not a lot of interior play, which is, you know, how you win hockey games. So I think that that's kind of what we've seen, and that is a continuation of what we've seen at the collegiate level. And, you know, you're right in that, you know, part of the challenge is when you go to college is you're going to play against older, stronger competition, and he's definitely gotten challenged this year. We haven't necessarily seen the adjustment, which is where I think that that's kind of

the concern. There's been a lot of excuses made for him, which is not something we've had to do. If you're a top, like if you're going to be a top pick, that's not acceptable. Like you can't have excuses made for you. And I think he's one of the most skilled players here, undoubtedly. He has some of the best vision. He has some of the best creativity, but he doesn't, you know, he's just not impacting the game. He kind of disappears a little bit too much.

And so what he's going to have to do is, for one, you know, he's going to have to try and, you know, actually be a driver a little bit more. Michael Hage has certainly been the driver of that line and one of Canada's better players throughout this tournament so far. But, you know, he needs to be a bit more of a driver. he needs to be a guy that's going to, you know, make some of those tough plays that is going to beat guys one-on-one, that is going to, you know, make that creative play that's going to open things up for somebody else. And so, you know, we haven't seen that necessarily. And I don't, you know, whether we're, I'm sure we'll see it against Denmark. But, you know, that's obviously not going to be enough for us to all be like, all right, he's fixed. The game against Finland is going to be very tight checking.

They are extremely strong defensively as a group. that's going to be a great indicator of where his tournament is going and if he's kind of found that other gear but in a year where he came in with no chance of being caught he's been caught.

Yeah, it's interesting and of course this is the year the Canucks could draft first overall and they've got a decision to make maybe. It's interesting also that Finland handled Latvia rather easily. They beat them 8-0 yesterday. So Canada needed

to get to overtime and needed two power play goals to beat Latvia and Finland beat them 8-0. So Chris, we had Guy Godowski on the show recently and he is the coach of Gavin McKenna at Penn State.

And I asked him a question and I thought it was an interesting response. I said, why is Gavin McKenna a winger and not a center? And he said, that's a question for him. I was like, oh, okay. So this is a decision that apparently Gavin McKenna has made that he's a winger and not a center.

And, you know, a lot of guys, look, they're a great playmaking wingers in the history of the game. But most of the guys with the vision that Gavin McKenna has, they're playing down the middle. Has there been any chatter about that in, you know, among the prospects experts like yourself? And what is the reasoning do you think behind Gavin McKenna playing the wing and not down the middle?

Yeah, it's definitely been a topic of conversation. I guess you could maybe, you know, watch his play off the puck and it answers your question. You know, I think that the defensive, I think he wants to be an offensive player. I don't think that his game, you know, I don't think he has the strength, the physical strength, to be a center at this point, you know, and could he, it is interesting that, you know, he is, he has

remained on the wing has really never been a center, you know, and I think it does make things, you know, the game can come to you a little bit easier that way. You don't have as many responsibilities. You don't have to cover as much ice. And, you know, I think also because he's, you know, a bit of a slighter player, it's probably, you know, more, he's able to kind of do more things on the wing. You know, the fact that, you know, even in the WHL, there was really never, you know, he was never put there is, is really interesting. But yeah, it does hurt your value.

It hurts, you know, the good news for him is that there hasn't been a center that has significantly pushed for number one outside of maybe, Heinon Lawrence, who plays for the Muskegon Lumberjacks, but, you know, he's, he's been injured most of this year. So you're, you're kind of looking at, you know, there's not a, there's not a center in this group that can unseat this highly skilled wing. But the other, you know, Evar Stenberg, who's in this tournament, also plays on the wing, but he plays on the interior. He plays more aggressively. Um, and he's producing against men in the SHL this year. And he's only been okay so far here at the world juniors. He does have a goal and a goal by getting to the middle

and all those other things. But, you know, like that's the thing is like in this particular draft class, the reason that I think that, you know, beyond McKenna not having the start that we thought is that he doesn't play a premium position. And that's why guys like Keaton Verhoff, like Carson Carls now, like others, could potentially move ahead of him because what's more value is a top line winger, you know, who's, you know, playing the way that he is right now versus a guy that has at least a potential to be a top pairing defenseman. I think a lot of teams would take the top pairing defensemen if given the choice between the two and it wasn't, you know, if it was close. And so, yeah, it's absolutely a factor. But, you know, and I just

don't think his game, you know, Gavin's game, is at all conducive to being a center. And, you know, that's another reason why I think you're going to see more and more people move them away from the number one spot. And certainly in talking to NHL teams, you know, there's a lot that have moved on from that discussion already. So, you know, they're starting to think about other players. So it's very interesting. What do you think, Chris? Would you take them first overall? You know, coming into the tournament, I was like, ah, you know, no one's really stepped up, you know.

So the body, the full body of work that we have of Gavin McKenna, is better than most anybody. But now we're starting to see some of these players emerge. You know, Keaton Verhoff can't get into the lineup for Canada, mainly because he is similar to a lot of the defensemen that they have where it's much more offensive-minded, jumping into plays, all those different things. But, you know, we're seeing other guys here.

We're seeing Stenberg. You know, we're seeing Albert Smiths from Latvia, who is maybe one of the best defensemen in this draft, and a guy that, you know, we're expecting big things from in this tournament even and has played in Liga. So there's a lot of options. So right now I haven't been able to move him away from it, but I'm seeing more and more and more evidence pile up.

This is not, you know, this is, this is, this is not going to be fun to hear in Vancouver. This may not be a great year to have the number one pick. So that's just, you know, like that's, that's been the chatter here at the World Juniors, even among the scouts is like, boy, I'd hate to be picking one because I don't know who I'd take. That's not a great place to be. When you say that, is it just like, hey, you don't want to make the choice between these guys that that might be in the top three, or is it just a weak high end overall if Kevin McKenna

doesn't pan out the way we thought he might? I think that a lot of the scout, like, you know, what may not be known as much by the public, I don't know. I mean, the public pressure on whoever's picking number one is often a factor. And we were talking about it. It's like if you're one of the Western Canadian teams that's kind of down towards the bottom and everyone in Western Canada has been hearing about Gavin McKenna for years and years, you know, that's the guy they want.

And so, you know, there could be pressure to make that selection. But, you know, I think that there's the reason that they're nervous about this is that, yeah, you don't want to make that mistake. And if there's pressure on taking McKenna, if everybody expects you to take McKenna and then you don't, and then McKenna does pan out, then you're in real trouble. That's when you lose your job, those kinds of things. So there's pressure on that. So a lot of teams want somebody else to make that decision for them and then just take the next guy that's available. And I do think that there is a bit of it where the high end of this draft is not where we thought it was going to be. We haven't seen it.

There's a lot of uncertainty. But it is one of those years where it's just like, all right, well, we'll just take the next guy. Like some people have said maybe the best position is actually three in this year's draft because you might get, you know, but yeah, it's, and, you know, if it's me, if you're asking me, you always want to pick one. You want to have the option of every single player, but you also have to make that decision. think back to Montreal, they made a decision when everyone wanted Shane Wright, they took your ice love coffee. That's kind of worked out, but it actually, neither one of them has been the best player from that draft. So, you know, either, you know, in the end, you really never know until things happen. So it's been a very intriguing conversation this year that is starting to

remind me more of the, the Nico Heischer here, where we're just like, who is it? We don't know. Is it him? Is it Nolan Patrick? And then all of a sudden, actually, it should have been Keel McCar. So a lot of things going to happen this year. Hey, Chris, really appreciate you taking the time. Enjoy the rest of the tournament and with where the Canucks are I'm sure we'll be talking as the season goes on here.

Sounds great, guys. Thanks for having me. There is Chris Beater's content manager for Flow hockey. And it does, like the more the season has gone on, the more research I've done and the more we've heard from prospect analyst, the more I've just been like, as long as

you're in the top three. That would be very funny the Canucks finally, finally get first overall and there's no consistent number one. It's like, oh, come on man. Why does this keep happening? I mean it's hard to ignore McKenna's stats in the dub like they're

incredible. Yeah. But then this year happens. Then I'm watching them and I'm like yeah there's obviously some elite talent there in elite vision but

you know the why is he playing the wing question is in the back of my mind and there were been a couple times when I'm like man he's not getting back very quickly and when you hear you know about you know does he have the motor

and you're like oh I don't love that because like you know you would never question you know you watch celebrina you're like that guy's got a motor you watch Badaard he's got a motor You know, but Dard has had to figure it out defensively, and I think he's still got work to do there. But, yeah, imagine if the Canucks finally get the first overall pick,

and they're in this position where, you know, they've either got to, you know, pick Gavin McKenna and hope the hype is real. Yeah. Or not pick him and hope that they didn't make, like, a franchise-altering mistake. That's why, like, Chris brought up a good point where it's like these teams of Western Canada, like Jamie Dodd has been talking about Gavin McKenna, I think, since he was like 12 years old. And it's just like there's all this public pressure on whatever team gets first overall,

especially if it's Vancouver or any Canadian team to take Gavin McKenna because he's the Canadian. And here especially, it's always like, ah, there's not enough Canadians on the team. Yeah, you just really have to be sure about his character. you just really have to be sure that he's not going to be I don't know Alex Dague who like you have to be sure that he

loves hockey and that he loves putting in the work and that he he wants to do it because you know these kids even though they're only 17 or 18 they've been playing hockey a long time and for some of them I think it's just like

man this is a lot like I'm you know I I don't like this is And you're telling me you have to work even harder when I get to the NHL. I mean, I can't just get by on my elite vision anymore. I have to put it in the world play. Everyone's good here?

Yeah. You know, the stories you hear about Bard, this offseason around town, is that he was telling everyone like, I'm going to be better. I'm going to be. So he's driven to be better because it wasn't all roses for him in the first couple of years in the NHL. Yeah, he won rookie of the year. But I think a lot of people, including myself, even were like, I thought it'd be better.

You know, because the hype was so big, and he's getting all these commercials, and I see him on the TV all the time, and you're like, yeah, okay. And then you get to a point sometimes you're like, oh, this is actually hard. So I've got a choice here. Either I'm going to kind of avoid the problem,

or I'm going to tackle it head on. And it sounds like he tackled it head on and look at the year that he's had so far. You know, yeah, he's injured right now, and he might not make the Olympic team, and he might not have made the Olympic team, even if he had stayed healthy, but he put himself very much

in that conversation. So you have to get to know these guys and what makes them tick and you have to get honest answers from the people around them and you have to make sure that their character is high and that they are driven

to keep doing what they've been doing. We get to text Mike in Mexico. Canucks will always pick a Swede if they get first pick. The thing is, Mike, like that might be the right pick this time. I mean, Stenberg does look great. Stenberg does look great.

But I don't know, man. I'm kind of team Stenberg. It's so hard to do. like ignore McKenna's vision because that is just so rare. Yeah. Like that's the thing. It's like, yeah, he may miss and not his ceiling, but very, very few players have that ability

that he has. Well, the vision... Even if you might criticize the perimeter play and maybe he's a bit soft, but like, that vision is like, nobody has that. Very few guys have it. Right? So yeah, maybe Stenberg looks great and sure he'll be a great player. I'm sure he'll end up getting Stenberg, like nobody's going to complain about

that. I guarantee people would... Well, maybe some people will complain about that. Yeah, It was sweet. But, I mean, like, Senberg, he's going to be a great... Nobody would complain about that. A lot of people would complain. A lot of people complained about that. But what I'm saying is, like,

Sandberg is a very good constellation prize. But again, like, McKenna, like, if the conducts get first, oh, man, passing on McKenna is such a huge risk. Because of that amazing... I don't think they would. You just got to take a chance on that vision. Like, so if you guys have it. I think you've got to look at what he did in the WHL and go,

yeah, he may be had a down year. Maybe we're going to need to work with them, but anyone that can put up the points that he did in the dub, that we cannot pass on that guy. Okay, Mike Tanner is going to join us next. Talk a little NFL. It's going to be a crazy closing weekend to the NFL regular season,

including some massive games that are going to determine seedings and whether or not teams are going to be in the playoffs. The Seahawks and the 49ers are going to play on. Saturday. The NFL made the decision on that for top seed in the NFC and the NFC West division. The Seahawks beat Carolina in a not very good game and the Niners beat the Bears in a very good game. I also want to talk to Mike about D.K. Metcalfe, the old Seahawk that was not available for the Pittsburgh Steelers against Cleveland and guess what? Pittsburgh really missed him. And the D.K. Metcalfe suspension has the potential

to upend the Steelers' playoff chances this year. That is, that's not exaggeration. That is reality. And I do wonder also about the future of Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh. So we'll talk to Mike Tanner about all of that coming up next on the Halford & Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. And the Halford & Brough Show is brought to you by Doick Otter Group. Find out why nobody beats a Duick deal since 1926 Physic, Doick GM on Marine Drive, downtown in Richmond, and adduick Auto Group.com. This is Halford and Brough, Josh Elliott Wolf in for Mike Alford on Sportsnet, 650.